1

Keith

Who would have thought it – states members vote to keep themselves in a job.

And it took a day and a half?

Apparently turkeys will be voting on whether Christmas is to go ahead this year – can’t imagine what the result will be.

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3

Outsider

Surprise, surprise! Too many have too cushy a number. Let’s have a referendum and let the electorate sort this out once and for all. This debate has cost us thousands, possible millions, in wasted states time, consultancy and wages.

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5

Adrian

Just get rid of the constables then we might have more people voting. When you get 10-12 dead certs out of 12 elected for the establishment, it gets a bit monotonous.

What would happen in the UK, do you think, if nearly a quarter of the House of Commons was cast in stone politically and on top of this you had 10% unelected as well?

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7

Turkey talk

Nellie, normally I kind of agree with you, but this time you seem a bit blinkered. The reforms were not really much of a reform. Some would say they went one step forward and two steps backwards. They would have still left the island being run by a similar crowd (I believe), and kept the constables in the states which really doesn’t make much sense. Their contribution is much more valuable at a parish level, which is why they are elected, and why they don’t contribute much to the states. They should be freed up to do the work they should be doing. Right?

Get this right the first time, otherwise everybody would have to wait an age before things are changed again.

Constables stick to internal parish affairs, deputies represent the interests of the parish on an island wide mandate, and senators represent the island. That would be a good start. Plus sort out proportional representation. This all seems fairly obvious stuff.

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9

PJG

Turkey talk.
You are mistaken in your statement
“Their contribution is much more valuable at a parish level, which is why they are elected, and why they don’t contribute much to the states.”
The Constables are voted in by the electorate to do the job of Constable.This mandate from the parishoners of the whole of the parish, not just a a small area as in deputies, includes SITTING IN THE STATES ASSEMBLY.It was certainly part of the reason I voted the way I did in our last Constables election
Adrian
I live in St Helier and if we relied on our area Deputies to represent us mine would be failed Senator Geoff. This area, due to the circumstances of the people living there will always return a left wing representative.Although probably right of centre myself I have no problem with this as I see it as democracy at work, even though I could use your argument of “dead certs” to not bother voteing.
The Constables are the best conduit for parishoners to be represented in the States. They represent areas large enough to have a diverse population and therefore a meaningfull vote.Their ancient and well tried nfrastructure throughout their parishes, their many meetings with parish departments, honorary officers and such like keeps them closely informed of what is hapening in the parish.
Unlike deputies, who only have ocasional meetings with thier electorate (some only when electioneering), who have no powers or the staff to make imediate emergency changes when they are needed.
I imagine Constables apear to have a block vote because probably they have similar ideas on how to serve their voters.
Red Geoff and his cronies also apear to have a block vote, probably because they too have similar ideas on how to serve their voters.

A good States asembly in my mind would be The 12 constables (not eligible to head departments such as Constables Jackson and Gallichan. They should be too busy running their parishes and representing their parishoners in the states, this must surely be a conflict of interests anyway)remove the Deputies, have 20 islanwide elected Senators and cheif minister, 33 in total.
Large enough to be diverse.
Small enough to be kept busy, and to paid enough to atract a better calibre of person.
If you pay peanuts (£42,000 )you get monkeys.

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11

truthseeker

Exasperated…the only word I can think of to describe a government that simply due to self interest has forgotten conveniently that democracy starts from the bottom up..not top down,,that without effective scrutiny we have and live under dictatorship.I find it hard to understand the apathy of the population,either you are working so hard you can’t look up to see what’s going on or so fat and complacent you don’t want to…a mix of both I guess.either way we have a C.O.M. who are calling the shots so the others are actually neutered by this power imbalance..and if your Deputy can not get info from the C.O.M. or the civil servants then how can he represent you…and if he can’t represent you, then what happens to the old “No taxation without representation” call…?we are getting into a deep police state ,despite the E.U. ban on importation of Tazer 50,000 Volt stun guns,Ian Le Marquand is still trying to get them in here,you might ask why,he’ll claim so we have to actually shoot less people ,stun guns are less fatal than bullets,do you see how there is always a dodgy motive hiding behind a plausible one,first of all frighten the people by saying”WE have X threat ,so you won’t mind us doing X “all the time this ploy comes up…so why do you want Tazers really.They are for use on the population who resist them,and less likely to draw the coverage of Tianamen square..I think they know the natives are restless and fed up of their Control freakism,civil liberties are being constantly eroded here we are being encouraged never to think for ourselves,and that nanny know’s best.Well the hell with that as I could fill this entire blog with examples where nanny can not tell her a** from her elbow and where some incompetencies are so grave they just had to be intentional and are criminally negligent to put it mildly…wake up people a totalitarian state is happening here while you doze or dream of better times,call your political representatives, tell them you are fed up with their wimpy platitudes and excuse making and ask what they are going to do about it now ,the big banks and buisnesss are calling shots the civil service is next in line and your politicians are becoming puppets drunk on the illusion of what they think is power..I expect real social unrest,there is resentment at the race mix,and there is growing street drunkeness and violence,soon there will be home invasion and theft…just look at any town/city where hope has gone…the Romans knew that you have to take the people with you..they thought they could suspend that fact of life and then the downfall…does this all sound conspiritorial raving…? yes it would be easy to pacify your fears with that little gadget…but the reality is out there,and you’ll see it if you are not stoned on anything or can bear to leave the comfort zone for a few minutes…they said Auschwitz could never happen..yet it was a mere 70 years ago ,less than a lifetime.so will you plod on with the blinkers on or realise that even one voice a determind one can be heard and that evil happens when good men do nothing…what will you do..?

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13

Nigel

When the original proposal for reforming the states was brought forward the states took the view that they should vote for it peacemeal so they cherry picked the bits of the reform that they liked and cut the bits that they couldn’t agree on instead of one vote on complete reform. As a result we have the half baked system that is evident today!
Personally the only people in the states that I regard as having any mandate from the people are the senators as they have at least had to accumulate a few votes unlike many of the deputies and conetables who can only be elected by a small proportion of residents and in many cases get in unopposed or on a small margin. How can this give them any credibility when representing the whole Island.
As none of them now seem to listen to the electorate anyway this is all irrelevant!

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15

Nellie Macon

4. Disenheartened –

http://www.statesassembly.gov.je/frame.asp

7. Turkey Talk

Don’t misunderstand here – I am as disappointed as everyone else at not getting the Constables out of the States but we have to start somewhere.

PJG – It is the Deputies in fact who do the bulk of the constituancy work in their Parishes and therefore really represent their districts. Unfortunately much of this is behind the scenes and does not get reported in the press.

If more people who don’t normally vote bothered to vote in all the elections we would get much of the change most of us want – maybe these difficult times will wake a few of these up in time for the next elections?

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17

james e

And they call this democratic, How can there be a fair vote on this matter if the voting is in house. leave it to the voting public to decide what kind of changes should happen. States members come and go! and most are never remembered, but the general public will always be there, having to live by the laws and decisions made, normally by a bias group who have a personal and buisness interest in certain areas. Also to have this kind of voting leads to a tit for tat situation, you didnt vote for me so i wont vote for you situation. its silly, we vote people in and then we have no say in what they do when there in. Look at the UK at the moment, for this reason Labour are in for a massive loss. there in to win whatever they can with no consideration to the general public, they also hold all voting in house and never listen to the majority. The majority is also the main basis of democracy in its basic form. Reform is needed and wont go away,

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19

Sanity

Perhaps if all the deputies lived in their constituencies some of the above arguments might have some merit. They don’t. It may be held in mitigation deputies receive in percentage of electorate more votes than the Constables but again it seems they don’t. In fact most deputies don’t even bother to attend their parish assemblies so how can they ever understand the parish problems.
I believe it is true that the Constables are, on the whole, are more moderate in their political views and policies than many of the deputies but this is because they are the most accountable to the electorate. I doubt if we will ever see the sort of anarchistic extremism spurted by some of our deputies emanating from the Constable benches as they are all too aware that the voters would not put up with it. – It is a very important balance called democracy and I am sure that if more people took the trouble to vote in the deputies elections we would have a better government .

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21

Buster Gut

The police should not be political and should be free of political influence.

The constables are the parishes’ top cops AND have a vote in parliament (usually en bloc).

This means that they are both make the law and enforce it. A clear conflict of interests. Take a look at other governments in the world where the police are politicised!

Would it be acceptable for the States of Jersey’s top 12 ranking policemen to have the power to influence and vote on which laws THEY want to bring in?

Constables out of the States. Deputies can represent the parishes adequately.

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23

PJG

Buster Gut
By cri you are living in ” times past me”
Today’s Honorary police do not bear much resemblance to the dinosaurs you are talking about.
The head of the parish police is the Chef du Police, ( I know for a fact Simon Crowcroft goes to great lengths to distance himself from Parish policing matters) yes he answers to the Constable and on policing matters the Constable then answers to the AG, he’s not even elected, so you cant call him political.
The honorary police have disciplinary procedures now, and complaints against them are investigated by the same coppers who investigate complaints against the SoJP.Surely that’s a good safety net to stop what you seem afraid of.
Yes all ranks of Honorary Police are elected so they can be considered political, the same as town Sheriffs in USA, It seems to work well there as well.

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25

mick

All elected members of the states should hold an island wide mandate. Why should a Constable who got in on a standing vote have a say in what goes on island wide? The Baliff’s position in the states should be scrapped cos he is not elected by the people

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27

Sanity

Nellie – I have taken an interest in how various members vote. The only pattern I can see is that most Constables appear to vote for what is best for the long-term prosperity and stability of our Island as opposed to a certain number of deputies who see themselves as an opposition to what you call the “establishment” for which the only apparent definition for this term is those who put the Island ahead of their own petty political or personal gain.

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29

Nick

‘What would happen in the UK, do you think, if nearly a quarter of the House of Commons was cast in stone politically and on top of this you had 10% unelected as well?’

You forget that there is a large unelected house of lords in London who get a seat just because they inherited it from previous generations and they have a huge say in politics.

Nowhere is perfect.

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31

Sanity

Truthseeker – It may surprise you to know that I am totally disillusioned with our present government although my view is that most are incompetent rather than corrupt as made out by some. Having said that I am even more concerned about the conduct and apparent extremism of a number of “opposition” deputies and fear that if the present evolution of our government continues unchecked the resulting instability will destroy our economy and with it any future for Jersey other than as some backwater EU state. As such there will be no job prospects for our youth and indeed very little employment opportunities for anybody outside basic agriculture and tourism which, let’s be realistic, will out the infrastructure paid for by finance will be hard pushed to even pay a subsistence wage. Jersey will then become a haven for the rich with those few “working class” residents left having to bow and pamper to their demands.
To use the analogy of a boat – if we rock things to far we will all capsize and sink and like the Titanic it will be the rich left sitting in the lifeboats and voters would be well advised to remember this at the next election.
With the present level of salary we are unlikely to attract any candidates of working age with sufficient ability and experience to run the Island properly and the present hostility – almost hatred – offered by some proving a barrier to those retired businessmen/women or persons of some stature from coming forward.
The current attack by a small but vocal minority on the Constables does not reflect public opinion and is not the answer to our problem which put simply is that in paying peanuts we have populated our government with monkeys. In truth most of our government policy is dictated by the very highly paid and qualified Civil Servants who, having spent their entire working lives in that particular post, run rings around any minister who may only hold that position for a number of years and thus is forced to rely on the good will and advice of those they are supposed to be in control.
I don’t know what the solution is and like most I am not prepared to give up my career to help find out.

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33

truthseeker

26 Clown Advocate…..spot on……you up for chief minister…?

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