Major St Helier plans unveiled
Wednesday 16th September 2009, 3:00PM BST.
A section of the model showing how the long-awaited Town Park will look under the masterplan’s proposals
PLANS for the biggest redevelopment of the north of St Helier for generations have finally been revealed.
The major scheme, called the North of Town Masterplan, is designed to create 300 homes, reduce traffic and create the long-awaited Millennium Town Park on the site of the Gas Place car parks.
As reported in the JEP last week, it includes controversial proposals to build houses around the edge of the new park and make developers, rather than taxpayers, pay for its creation.
Earlier plans to build a multi-storey car park on the Ann Court site have been scrapped in the masterplan. Instead, there will be housing with underground parking with spaces for 300 cars.
The key proposals of the masterplan, which has been created by Jim Greaves, from Hopkins Architects and Mike Waddington, from Naish Waddington Architects, are
published in today’s Jersey Evening Post.
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How about selling all of the homes on estate agents websites first!
This is a truly terrible idea. The states have to chill out, take some time to sort everything out before mass spending and developing. They are mad and need to go!
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The plan looks very promising. The green areas should be kept to a minimum though as Howard Davies Park literally 5/10 minutes walk away provides everything one would ezpect from a park in town.
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What a joke–
When did a park become a housing estate?
And what excuses they give to build more housing
in place of OUR park in st.helier.
To cut crime rate where there is no crime!
We wan,t what you rich politicians have got.
A green space is what we were promised.
Time for the ST.Helier peasant,s to revolt and show them we mean bussiness.
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I don’t know about You, but I for one can’t see the park for the bricks!!! Someone is making a killing and in the process the People of Jersey are being robbed of their promises. Are there any politicians in Jersey who really care about the people of the Island?
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Call me cynical but these new places around the parks will no doubt be advertised as having views accross the park and then be overpriced accordingly.
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What a surprise Freddies favourite architect (or so it seems) gets to plan the North of St Helier!
Are they missing the point, we don’t want (or at least I don’t) more houses in this area we want a great big green lung for the families that already live in town to enjoy, ahwell we best let him have what he wants or he may threaten to step down (again) and what a loss that would be!!!
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And who will be paying for this? What a ridiculous proposal in this economic climate! Yet another Costly States blunder on the way!
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Wow! the North of Town Masterplan.
300 more homes in an already overcrowded St Helier, I know let’s tell the people they will have a park, that will appease them.
If the States have actually paid someone to produce this plan then I would respectfully suggest they could have saved all the monies by making it a primary school project, after all they couldn’t have done any worse!!!!!
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I like the idea with the town park, such a lovely area to relax on lunch or after work on a hot summer day.
It would have benches around the outside, a fountain, a play area for children and a swimming pool similar to the one in millbrook park.
No more housing, I used to live at Ann Court and I am pleased to see it go!! We need some space in town free of any buildings.
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2) Ann –
Howard Davis (not Davies) Park is on the outskirts of town and is miles away if you are disabled, when will people realise that people are important not buildings!!!!!
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There are lots of houses nearby that provide everything anyone could need from a house so please give the town some lungs.
Don’t make this a housing project.
Put the houses on the Esplanade quarter site and lets make that half park too.
There is a tendency for any project without construction to be ignored.
There is still value to the town in a project with no major construction even if there is no economic incentive for the architects to recommend it.
It has already been agreed to make it a park, stick to this agreement, I have waited patiently for 10 years for this park.
What other things are not going to happen that have been promised !
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There is some logic in these plans, but the concept of a public park is lost in an area,which will be surrounded and squeezed into a narrow dark long passage by dreary faceless units on all sides and inevitably will become the preserve of those whom will surround it in those proposed privately developed 300 units.No wonder Constable Crowcraft is angry.He should have an equal voice in the face of decisions by planning,whom seem to think they have an independent power to dismiss his and the views of his parishioners.
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So – it’s a north of town masterpaln – and everyone focuses on the millenium town park. Has anybody actually read the full article – or seen the masterplan? Until they have, perhaps people should reserve judgement. And when they have considered the plan in full, perhaps then people should give their judgements
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Dear All
Lets all agree now. We want a lovely park with no extra box apartments around it. From the public, I see no objection to this, so why is no one listening?
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Bet most of these comments come from people with there own homes. Jersey needs housing badly ,no one should be living in bedsits this day and age and living in private ghettos at over priced rents which jersey has to offer its people. We cant afford to get on the property ladder but would like decent humane accomadation.
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Correct me if I am wrong but I believe there is a perfectly good park in town called Howard Davis Park?
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St Helier is spoilt for choice when it comes to parks. There’s Howard Davis Park, the Parade Park and a beautiful waterfront just a short walk away from the town centre.
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joke,
because the esplande phrase is going so well,
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JP 5.
Call me cynical…
Without a doubt you’re cynical…and so am I!
However, I’m not against a backdrop-friendly States-housing “masterplan” for young families who are currently living in “Victorian” housing conditions and have no chance of buying at today’s prices.
Being robbed of “Park” space is only acceptable when it benefits the less fortunate…Robin Hood style!
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#14 – While you’re about it can we also all agree on the desirability of a 15 hour working week and no taxes?
Another park would be great but we have to be realistic, no money in the pot, future States deficits and once you’ve built the park you will also have an added maintenance burden on the straining States budgets.
A smaller park looks like a good solution on all counts.
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Having a park placed in Gas place isnt going to fit the surrounding area! West Park could be turned into a beautiful park, with a water fountain placed smack bang in the middle of it! As for houses being built everywhere, what is this going to achieve? Its going to make the problem in the future worse than what it is now! Being over populated in such a small island isnt good for the environment, instead of building houses, trees should be placed in the areas, theres too much pollution as it is over here that we are all breathing in!
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So, not replacing the same number of spaces being lost in gas place car park (TTS have a policy of reducing traffic in town – hence less parking available) but they allow developments without adequate parking to be built. There is already commmuter misery and this is going to add to it. Finally, just because you live in town does not mean you work there – so where do you park your vehicle?
The underground parking at Ann Court will be public parking – hence whoever lives there will be living on top of a public car park…..would Constable Jackson like that?
Houses around the park with children and teen agers screaming until dark will drive the residents crazy.
The park should have no houses on it and a multi-storey with parking for vans for tradesmen and deliveries in town on the ground floor on the Odeon site are what is required.
This plan should be turned down – who’s going to start up the petition? Let me know and I shall definitely sign it.
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Couple of points.
When they say reduce traffic I guess they mean remove all parking in town so cars have no requirement to drive in to town….
I think the question of how many parking spaces will be lost when we have built over the esplanade and gas place car parks…..
I hope Grouville Deputy Carolyn Labey understands that her cycle track will never be paid by parking charges as there will be no parking left to charge for….
We will defiantly see the private parking spaces increase in price from the £160 a month they currently are as there will be a much higher demand.
All bus routs will end up leaving people standing in the rain (not just the busy routes).
Next the COM that don’t already have private parking spaces as part of their job role will lobby for dedicated free parking spaces in the few car parks left making even more spaces unavailable for the general public to use in town.
Shops will find that business is even worse than the recession could predict as more and more people can get to town to buy anything.
Sorry for the doom and gloom comment but it’s probably not far from the truth of how life in jersey will turn out……
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Housing for young families is a brilliant idea and with some little gardens for them to play in.
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Can anyone find the logic in the following quote;
“The major scheme, called the North of Town Masterplan, is designed to create 300 homes and reduce traffic”.
They really do take people for utter fools don’t they?
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Enough is enough. If this island SO desperately needs more housing, let it be built in the country parishes.
Many residents of St. Helier already suffer a lower quality of life as a direct result of overcrowding. More houses in the densely populated area of Gas Place/Bath Street will compound that situation.
Never before have I supported building in the island’s green zone. But seeing politicians who live cosy countrified lives turn St. Helier into a glorified housing estate has changed my mind.
When the next election comes, can we PLEASE vote people into power who understand what life is like for everyday islanders?
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Aside from the content here,what about the road closure in David Place…the traffic planners are a waste of space..it is a main artery in and who over 21 can remember a traffic jam in New Street…..? a perfect escape from Rouge Bouillon and Clarendon road lower Trinity area all the way down to the Weighbridge….some bright spark…o.k. that obviously works far too well let’s close it a total waste of a perfectly good artery which now sits doing nobody any good at all…No let’s send the traffic all the way round the market and really clog up the works…. especially now wev’e stopped them turning right at the Oxford pub site wher cars could nip straight down to the Avenue…
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23 – Scott – The parking lost when the Esplanade car park is developed is not going to be totally replaced, despite the fact that it is currently inadequate and the offices they are going to build on the Esplanade car park will only provide parking for the directors of those companies.Therefore we will have many more commuters aimlessly circulating the area trying to find a parking space.
Given that almost all mothers go back to work after maternity leave,they cannot be dependant on cycling or buses to pick up little ones from nursery or school – yet TTS continue with this “get cars out of St Helier” folly and no-one protests….
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Lisa i agree
I live in this part of town and i,d sooner they left it as it was than have more flats.
It has been proved that putting too many people
in a small area causes social problems and when they started building these high rises they knew it was a mistake but carried on regardless the world over,not just jersey.but they don,t care they hav,nt got to live in them.
children need spaces to play which they hav,nt got in ST.helier and that causes more problems
like we,ve seen recently.
Are they trying to turn this into another waterfront?
This park was promised 10 years ago and now they are using any tactics they can to change
it to something they wan,t not us.
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Put flats on the Esplanade Quarter site. You can put lots of flats there.
St Lawrence is under populated too.
Keep the park as a park not a housing project.
Its those with big houses in the country who don’t live in town who want to build here.
They oppose to putting houses on green countryside near them and will not let those in town have any trees or green.
Its disgusting double standards, I want green trees near me not just for the rich who live in the country.
What percentage of the Jersey population live in town?
Give us more green in town, develop elsewhere.
Knock down HDLG and put lots of social housing there and St Saviours Hospital and The old girls college.
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No please everyone continue to comment on this website, I mean sharing our views instead of taking action has worked so many times in the past.
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Why are more houses needed? There are pages and pages of unsold property, much of it outside St Helier, in the JEP each night.
If there is such demand why are there so many houses for sale?
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well said mogit! but as well know it’s profit before the people on this island.
instead of wasting money on this unnecessary development, why not use the funds to get a decent, PROFESSIONAL landscaper in to make a modern, user friendly park, which would cost a fraction of the price.
We need a REAL park, not another patch of grass like the Parade. Take a look at millbrook, a great place for everyone; young and old. I apprciate the space is not quite the same but some inspiration should be taken from it.
The rest of the funds could be used to,,, hmm i duno,, alleivate those below the poverty line.. oh no what am i thinking of course not.. the rich must look after the rich thats how it works right?!
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Born Warrier 19.
Problem is when these new places are advertised as having a park in yuor back garden they will be over priced anyway so if you cant afford one now i dont really see how you will be able to afford one when they are built.
They dont need to build housing there , the states could always give up some land out of town but then which parish does not have a constable, deputy, minister, senator etc living in them who wont want it on their own doorstep. Double standards in an island run by a majority who look after themselves only.
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Hi Nellie,
Sorry if my post was confusing but it was meant in the negative….
My point was that I hope someone asks the question of how many parking spaces will be lost when all the planned redevelopments happen!
Maybe your son could ask in one of the states sittings.
Most of the rest of my post was around the consequences of what will happen after the developments.
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JP 34
I wasn’t thinking of myself (I’m one of the lucky ones), I was thinking of the predicament of the less fortunate.
Jersey’s housing situation is shameful (as I’ve said many times), so when I mentioned a “States-housing masterplan”, I meant a cleverly thought out rent-buy scheme for the low-income category…but it will never happen, so down with the “North of Town Masterplan” and up with the TREES!
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Perhaps it’s not a park we really need, but this would be a great site to create playing fields, skate parks, basketball courts etc…..then we all can benefit & spend some decent…..FREE…..leisure time instead of having to fork out an arm and a leg hiring places. This would be great for the youths to give them something to do too!!
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35 Scott – I already discussed this with a Senior Planning official – about a third of the parking spaces will be lost on teh Esplanade site – not sure about Gas Place yet. Some of the new Esplanade parking will be for the retail outlets as well so even more will be lost to commuters.
Re the Esplanade there will be more call for parking because of the new office blocks but no additional parking is being provided – neither at Patriotic Place or at Pier Road or anywhere else. I asked this official where commuters were supposed to park and he said that in the experience of TTS when there is less parking available it “makes commuters more innovative as to how they get to and from work”.
This is the states TTS policy and they are not moving from it…it appears Constable Jackson endorses it.
One further point to note: at the Town Hall meeting Constable Jackson was asked if he would like to live next to a car park and he admitted he would not – now he has become party to a plan which is building a development right on top of a public car park! Would he like to live their either?
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Wake up (comment 33)Thank you for mentioning Millbrook Park.I grew up at Millbrook and although we had a good sized garden my mother took us children to Millbrook Park almost daily.I also took my children there regularly and now my daughter,on a recent visit to Jersey,took her two small children there and met up with cousins and other family.It is,and always has been beautifully maintained and is indeed a rare piece of open,unspoilt space in an island that is now dedicated to cars and inadequate housing.
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What about the people that live in St Helier, the parking problem is getting worse! Finding a parking place is absaloutley rediculous for the residents that live here! If you have young children,shopping and maybe a dog,even trying to unload the car is worrying without getting a parking ticket or being told to move along! Driving around St Helier is an absaloute night mare trying to find a parking space! Sometimes it can take up to an hour just trying to get home after a long days haul, its ok for these so called responsible people that dictate what will go here and there but what about the residents of St Helier that need parking and need their cars but park anywhere!? When you have got a car load, its no laughing matter!
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The population will increase beyond anyone’s expectations.
Everyone’s tax will increase to pay for the follies of the States. The same as the UK government.
There will NEVER be any meaningful change in the way the Island is governed.
Too many people are still making so much money they don’t care what happens to the people that live here.
All people that live here are no more than a commodity to be bought and sold.
This project will be given the go ahead the same the same as all the others.
Freddie’s follies continues!!
It doesn’t matter how much everyone comments or complains, if you read it in the JEP….it’s already happened
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Point taken Scott.
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There is a serious traffic problem in the island.
But instead of trying to build an integrated solution that uses out of town parking, public transport, etc.
The States have gone for their usual dead head solution.
Drive motorists off the road by creating yet more one way systems and reduce the number of publicly available parking places.
More pain for the average private sector grunt that actually makes money for the island!
States members and senior civil servants get free reserved parking, so no worries there!
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It won,t be long before they have number plate recognition cameras on every road leading in ti st helier and they start a congestion charge like they do in london
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I have not seen the plans. BUT, I wonder if the houses will actually have private gardens, and then the park. I assume the houses (front door) will face the roads. If they do have private gardens, they must be 50m2 (planning policy), so lets say 8m for a house, 5m for its garden. Double this (two rows of houses) 26m off the width of the park. The car park is about 45m wide. So the park will be will be about 20m wide.
If the park is considered as the amenity space for the houses and it is also public space, then this goes against current policy (although a new policy on the way). Then the houses have no private space.
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Another bad idea. Is this to take the cars when Minden Place is knocked down I wonder?
When will the States do something right for a change?
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It would make far more sense to use the large areas of Overdale with no buildings and put a park in town.
Up by Tower road and clubly estate there is space.
Up by Highlands there is lots of unused space not park and not housing.
If you want to build on a park Victoria park is not used much.
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Another fine mess the states are getting us into.When are the states going to wake up and not put pen to paper on what they dreamt about last night!!!
My son left Jersey as he could not find a job (not through lack of trying) and i will soon follow. For generations my family have lived here i always said i would never leave but the time has come to escape a sinking ship.
Start fining the states members personally when they waste our money maybe then they might(!!!)not be sooo stupid
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more tenants in st.helier.
Does that mean our rates will go down!!!WHAT A JOKE
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Dont hold your breath Adrian.
Everything they tried to improve on turns into nothing but shambles.
We used to have good transport and choice in the past.How many times have they changed the airport and always for the worse in recent times?
When will they get the message…If it aint broke don.t fix it.
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I think that David Place would be a much nicer place if there were no cars. The Victorian houses and flats would look out onto a tree lined street and there would not be problems with noisy cars or pollution which current affect homes. Outside eating would be come more common. Town could have more areas like St Aubins, Gorey which were well know for a good selection of resturants in walking distance which would increase trade.
Please look into doing more like this in town and restore St Helier to its former glory!
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This space should be a Park for all the existing houses and flat occupants in the area already to use and enjoy.It should have some public facilities such as a children’s playground and paddling pool, and a cafe/kiosk for children and a few Public tennis and badminton courts. The only building should be the Caretaker/Park-keeper’s cottage.
As for parking apart from Nellie’s idea for the Odean site, this can be dealt with by using hydraulic lift style car parking which works in other towns and cities and takes up less ground space.Anyway if the current plans go ahead there won’t be any cars in St Helier and subsequently no shops either!
Millbrook Park has been a success because it was overseen by the Boot family when planned.
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All the more reason to take away free parking for States Members and see how they like trying to find spaces like the rest of us.
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41.This government model is hopelessly flawed,we are not properly represented,and greed and only greed seem to be the currency here,no quality of life ,no autonomy of the individual, just in your face blatant deals being done ,pockets being lined,and locals becoming depressed and demoralized, whilst being ripped off and taxed to the gunnels and forced to witness those with financial “Tax vehicles” pay almost nothing…with their scams,as the old school tie cuts them all the slack they need.
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Lisa #26, I agree. We live in town and we are getting out asap! I’ve lived in an equally populated (and similar-sized) part of Glasgow that still had better quality of life than St Helier.
Ann #24, EVERYone needs houses. There are plenty of young couples choosing NOT to have kids (because there isn’t anywhere to put them) so please don’t suggest it should just be families.
And to anyone who think this housing will be affordable and will get them out of Victorian, over-priced rental accommodation? Dream on! Where in Jersey did you get the idea that new homes would be for anyone other than the rich?
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#53 has made a real point. We need to ensure that our States members are in the exact same position as the rest of us when it comes to parking. They don’t care if we don’t have parking because they know that they do, so we have to somehow get rid of their parking and see what amazing car park plans suddenly appear.
Any ideas on how to do this?
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