Islanders are asked to leave cars at home
Wednesday 30th September 2009, 2:59PM BST.
ISLANDERS are being asked to cut down on car use for the benefit of both the environment and their own health.
The Transport and Technical Services Department want to encourage people to instead use buses, bicycles or footpaths.
The plans are included in the sustainable transport policy, which outlines a target of reducing traffic levels by 15 per cent.
Speaking at the launch of the consultation document yesterday, TTS acting chief officer John Rogers said that the minister for the department, St Brelade Constable Mike Jackson, wanted to ‘shake things up’.
‘The key thing is that we have got to get people out of single-occupancy cars,’ he said. ‘We have tried to lock into the Health department strategy to try and get people fitter by cycling and walking because 36 per cent of car trips are less than two miles.’
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How shall people cope with the walking to work along the areas with little or no footpaths. The traffic needs to slow down and drivers need to be more polite that’s all that is required.
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That will not work they could try banning non commercial vehicles and replacing them with a better transport sytem and subsidised taxi service.
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Ending the free parking spaces for ALL Civil Servants and public employees should easily give the 15% saving.
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How many times do we have to say this – give us a bus service that runs for the people and not for the benefit of Connex and we will think about it, until such time as you are able to offer an alternative, stop wasting our time and money!!!
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All of the things that have been proposed is to add taxes, increase charges or bring out new charges. I am a household that has one car and must drive from St Brelade to Town each day to work and drop off my son. What does the above proposed taxes/charges bring to me. I must get to work and drop off my son to nursey and pick him up and with the push chair and almost daily shopping? Do the buses allow push chairs? Have additional place for extra bagage and also not jammed pack a 8.00 to 9.00 and 5.00 to 6.00 ? How about looking at cars per household or even add a reducing factor on your tax bill to promte one car per family household and not one car per person.
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Here we go again.
The buses are on winter service up in St John there is no bus on a Sunday. The rest of the week is a joke.
Sort the bus service out first, then more people will use them.
This has been said many times before, it is not new.
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i cycle to work each day … not far admittedly, but it is much easier than driving, even in winter. i did however pick up the latest winter bus timetable and it’s probably the worst service i can remember. no wonder people drive. and as for tts calling on the public to be energy effecient or improve fitness – talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
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Well then there are two things that need to be done first:
1) Improve the bus service so it’s cheaper and more convenient to get the bus from outlying parishes than it is to drive (Not everyone starts at 09:00 and finishes at 17:00 you know?)
2) Implement a Car Pool scheme whereby certain lanes of the Avenue and the sections thereafter are given over to cars with more than one person in them or those on scooters / motorbikes.
Of course none of this will make a difference due to the rather incomprehensible attachment that a lot of islanders have to their cars especially when they’ve spent vast sums of their money on BMWs, Audis and Mercs and have to justify this expense by driving to work (and indeed everywhere) to park in their over priced parking spaces and the environment and other road users be dammed.
Good luck Mike – you’re going to need it!
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As the owner of a large gas guzzler car and a small scooter i find it easier to park the guzzler
in town than the scooter more spaces for scooters please.
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Only when Michael Birt, Andrew Ridgway, Terry Le Sueur and the rest of the island’s political leadership lead by example will the rest of the populace follow suit.
Until such times . . .
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Well I really would love to leave my car at home because of the cost of parking and I do so during the summer months. I walk in and catch the bus home at night if I have shopping or it is raining. Some may say well do the shopping at the weekend which I do occasionally but there are times when I have to shop in town during the week whilst at work and I have no other option so walking home with bags is not on the top of my list. In the winter it is another matter – use the buses more everyone says – but people who live in my area can’t use the bus because the 3b does not run through winter and the number 23 bus stops before the end of the working day. I work full time. There is no bus which services the area around the Grands Vaux area or St. Saviour’s Hill or Langley Avenue etc after 4.00pm except the number 3 which stops at Five Oaks so I still have to walk down the Hill with shopping and sometimes in the pouring rain. I have written to Connex who have done nothing about this anomaly so unless and until they put a bus on which services this route as in summer then I will be taking my car! Put on the 3b or the number 23 after working hours and let us also have a bus which runs later in the evening too. There are just as many people using this route as the number 1, 1a, 3, 3a etc which incidentally take nearly the same route! We don’t even have one let alone two or three.
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I have to agree, we need to reduce traffic leavels but at what cost? We also all know when the schools are on holiday, (contry to past states stats)the roads flow better at peak times.
But why have the schools removed bicycle racks for the children to store & lock up their bikes in?
Why arent people been encourage to walk?
Is it simply down to the fact that the bus service is rubbish and taxi’s/cabs cost far too much regardless of who much they try to justify them! Many wont get catch the bus due to its poor service in the country parishes with the times they go into town or return.
Introducing emissions taxes on new cars and higher parking charges will do nothing but hit the ordinary person in the pocket who will absorb this over time.
Also in these economic times, do we really need town to be less empty than it already is? I am sure the retailers there will be up in arms; it will just give me more reason to use the internet to do my shopping!
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Cars are not the problem in Jersey. Its too many people. Why should us, that were born here suffer because The Island is over populated.
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Another excellent example of joined up States policy making;
1) Don’t do as we do, do as we say.
2) All stick and no carrot.
3) Richer islanders will have to pay more. poorer islanders will be seriously inconvenienced or have to give up driving altogether.
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Its easy.
Stop people coming here from all over the EU and UK and bringing all their relatives.
Less people = less cars
Less people = less handouts / less healthcare / less government departments / less houses / less congestion = less taxes
True Jersey people cant work in the EU, why should they be allowed here.
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well if you give us a better public transport service and make cycling safer maybe we will…
Last bus to Plemont is 5.40pm – and I finish work at 6pm so that means I have to get a taxi now does it?
Better still why don’t you sort out the drain covers in the roads – that will make the roads safer for motorcyclists, horse riders and cyclists instead of being the number one cause of accidents for us all! Paint them, put a cats eye on them, put anti slip stuff on them I don’t care but for god’s sake make them visable and THEN AND ONLY THEN will I consider riding my bicycle thank you very much…
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Agree with the comments above.
You cannot get a bus to Grouville Church after 6pm, and we have opposition to cycle paths.
Connex, improve the bus schedules, and States improve the footpaths and cycle paths, oh and have a clear strategy for doing both.
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Meanwhile, back on planet earth……
I start work at 8am and live in the wilds of Trinity. There is no bus service anywhere near my house. The nearest bus stop is about half a mile which is fine for me to walk at a push but what about my 4 children. All who go to different schools of which the school bus collects half a mile in the opposite direction. The bus is often full by the time it gets to Trinity as it has been collecting in the other northern parishes.
So, give me a regular bus service which drops both me, the “boss” and the children near to the house at times which suit my working day ( I finish after 6pm) and I will considerer it.
In the meantime, stop the free States members parking and make them start at 9am rather than mid morning. Lets see them circle endlessly around public car parks like most St Helier workers looking for a slot.
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Magnolia Man “Only when Michael Birt, Andrew Ridgway, Terry Le Sueur and the rest of the island’s political leadership lead by example will the rest of the populace follow suit.”
I’d love to cycle but it’s not safe, the Gorey cycle path would help. Banning mums with 1 child in enormous 4X4′s travelling to a school in the same parish where they live would solve the problem completely. And if you can’t ban them instigate an island wide training course for them to show them where reverse gear is in their Chelsea tractors so I don’t have to keep backing up when I meet one on a narrow island lane.
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With policies like these it is only the fact that most islanders are sick of the whole political system and the antics of the States members plus the peculiar non electoral system that stops most members being ejected from the house!
Jersey elections should be measured in stay in rather than turn out.
Another triumph for Jersey, over 80% of voters opted not to vote because they are so happy with the way the island is being run!
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Firstly bring back double-deckers on the 2 main bus routes ( 1 & 15 )(both have very minimal roads of height restriction-ie cut off a branch if it’s in the way!)These take 75 plus 20 standing (better than those stupid little blue things on Jersey)
Secondly have a “park & ride” scheme using old “brownfield” sites in North,West & East of the island and therefore out the way of the “grind-still” area of Victoria Avenue & Georgetown & St Saviours Hill & Queens Rd (i’m sure there’s more!!!)
Exeter has 3 P&R’s & for £1 a day it makes money sense & environmental sense to create a bus service which is for the right reasons (ie not being subsidaised by the states)
Thirdly, as No3 said , charge all these free-loaders the same rates as everyone else for parking
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colin (9). good idea , more spaces for two wheelers.
the worst car park for bikes is minden place, how do you all get in and out when its full??
car driver (5), quite true, its hard work trying to get a toddler and the pushchair on a packed bus, and little or no help from fellow passengers.
the one car idea , i my eye would only work if all the family starts at the same time, work in town and go home at the same time , the last bus on some routes is 6 pm. so bang goes doing something after the daily toil ,like golf , fishing, any sport or popping in to see someone, taxis are out as too expensive .
too many cars = too many people.
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A Grockle wrote
“Of course none of this will make a difference due to the rather incomprehensible attachment that a lot of islanders have to their cars”
Well, my attachment to my car is perfectly comprehensible.
It is based on years of appalling memories of cycling daily to School from Gorey in torrential rain winter after winter.
Oh, and waiting for the bus in my soaking wet gabardine mac. The water curled under the lower hem and got you in the trousers as well.
I just couldn’t wait to have a car.
If someone invents a form of cycling that can cope with such conditions it might just catch on.
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Similar proposals were raised be a former States member many years ago, which were ripped apart by the JEP.
This is ample proof that the Constables should not hold major presidencies in the States. There has been no improvement in the bus service, people should not be forced to walk or cycle to work in the rain. This is just a ploy to raise taxes and nothing else.
I currently have no option other than to drive my wife to work, drop our son at school and then park up and go to work myself.
All parking for States members and civil servants should be taken away so that thouse in authority understand the real position.
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what a cheek these people have got. STOP telling us what to do and sort our the real problems first, i.e **** bus service!
The authorities need to ask the people what they want and stop telling us what we “should” do!
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I love taking the bus to work, but once the winter comes and they reduce the schedule of the 12 and 12a it doesn’t work with my shifts. And we don’t get a Sunday service – why not when Corbiere is one of the main places visitors want to visit both in summer and in winter. Do Connex think that we don’t want to go anywhere on a Sunday?
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Green taxes? Lets tax fuel on the floating gin palaces in the marinas.
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Sounds good in theory but in practice no. Another load of hot air that won’t amount to much. In my opinion Connex are a waste of time and tax payers money.
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right so we have to use the bus and be charge silly amounts to go anywere, plus what about people who work when there is no buses, people still work on a sunday
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No real problem. I will avoid going into town and buy as much as possible by mail order.
I do find that Amazon is very good and much better value than most of the shops in town. It does save me the trouble of having to find a parking space.
Now, where did I put that Argos catalogue?
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Hooray an opportunity to push two of my so called hair-brain schemes! How about a 15″ Gauge railway between St Aubin and St Helier, run on the lines of the Romney Hythe and Dimchurch Railway,or the one at Eskdale in Cumbria?
Both those miniature railways operate as a joint tourist draw and commuter link.
You can operate working trains during the week using quarter scale diesel locomotives, and at weekends you could use quarter scale steam locomotives as a tourist draw.
People could change to a line going on to Corbiere at St Aubin, following the route of the railway walk!
All the technology for such railways is available through firms operating on the internet including one who manufactures quarter scale signals and signal boxes!
There is even one 15″ light railway with a fully operating buffet car and another with a restaurant car!
A line going out to the North in the center of the Island would also be possible if farmers and landowners could be persuaded to give up a strip of land down the edge of their properties?
As for going East, I still advocate scenic cable cars, as used by Swiss Rail in Lucerne in Switzerland,coming in to a terminus up on Fort Regent with lift access from Snow Hill right to the center of town.
Again all based on existing technology currently available.
These schemes not only have tourist appeal they would provide optional commuter links to St Helier from key population centers.
That would get cars off the roads!
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to all states members and faceless civil servants, lead by example!
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Will they lead by example?
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There should be a congestion charge for anyone coming into St Saviour and St. Helier. St Saviour and St Herlier should be exempt from any congestion charges they have to tolerate school traffic on an annual basis and also contibute to the rates of every school and States building.
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Bring in ‘post buses’ for outlying areas & double deckers for the main East & West routes.
It can work once any Union grievances are settled.
I first suggested this 7 years ago. It seems to work in some other Island communities.
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If they reduced the speed limit for cars to 20mph across the Island and improved the public transport system this would stop people driving to work. i think the current speed limit is far to excessive and makes people want to drive to work.
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Again with the 20mph speed limit Rosemary – 20mph would mean congestion heaven! which would mean more people getting angry, fed up and annoyed which would eventually lead to more accidents – not to mention the damage to the environment.
incidentally – cyclists and buses would also get prosecuted as I as well as a number of other cyclists go faster than 20mph…
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I know one of one lady at work who lives at the top of Old St.Johns Road and she drives to work everyday. She works in the Charing Cross area.
She is just one of so many lazy people that use their cars everyday to take a short trip to work.
People are not going to stop taking their cars to work even the ones that are in walking of their work. Lazy people don’t change.
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Who do they think they are kidding just an excuse to raise taxes to give the rich cheaper living while the working class pay to support them come on Jersey wake up before a cap to doff to them becomes compulsory.
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Comment 35 Mrs Rosemary Bead – “If they reduced the speed limit for cars to 20mph across the Island and improved the public transport system this would stop people driving to work. i think the current speed limit is far to excessive and makes people want to drive to work.”
You’ve really got a bee in your bonnet about this 20mph speed limit rubbish haven’t you. Motorists pay a lot of tax to use the roads,a 20mph limit would not deter motorists who have no viable alternative, it would just cause gridlock. Modern cars can stop in half the distance that cars could when the current 40mph restriction was put in place. No matter how safe cars are or how well they stop, there’s nothing you can do if someone steps into the path of an oncoming car without looking, perhaps better road sense education would help here.
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All I have to say is “Bring back the trains”
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Ah, Rosemary Bead, you’re so reliable with your 20mph policy posts that you should start up your own bus service. I know I can’t wait to get in my speedmobile in the mornings to scream down Mont Cochon at 30mph.
Extra taxes on the motorist will not deter people from driving into town every morning unless there is a viable alternative, which at the moment there isn’t.
Having said that, I do know somebody who drives to work in town from Victor Hugo, which is ridiculous.
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Totally agree with Colin, more free spaces for bikes. Scooters and motorbikes should be encouraged – no mandatory CBT for adults with car licences.
Better, cheaper bus service.
An island wide school bus service.
An island wide off-road cycle track system.
The cost of these things can be paid for by getting rid of States overtime.
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Ditto to improving the bus service.
Winter timetable means that my last bus leaves town at about half six. Not too bad, but not good enough if I work late – as most people do these days. Gone are the days of the nine to five office worker. Most people work heaps of overtime. And that’s before we look at the non-office workers and shift workers.
Also, although we have the monthly bus pass, you have to work out in advance whether it’s worth getting one if you are away for part of the month. Guernsey use Oyster cards – a much more practical idea.
However, guys. I have been reliably informed that Connex don’t come up with the timetable. They just operate the service ‘on behalf of’ the States. Therefore, it’s your local politician you need to lobby to get anything done about the timetable.
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Will this walk to work idea apply to taxi drivers. They can be quite arrogant in their attempts to grip as many fares a day as they can.
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I agree with the rest here!!
“Only when Michael Birt, Andrew Ridgway, Terry Le Sueur and the rest of the island’s political leadership lead by example will the rest of the populace follow suit.”
Stop the free States members parking and make them start at 9am rather than mid morning. Lets see them circle endlessly around public car parks like most St Helier workers looking for a slot.
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Ridiculous…and will all the new immigrants walk everywhere…unrealistic nonsense as usual from a bunch of dreamers…won’t make a blind bit of difference.
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Mrs Rosemary Bead #35… your comments are unfathomable.
What makes people drive to work? GOVERNMENTS!
I’m beginning to think that people are so busy looking at cars that they are failing to take in anything of Jersey itself. Where are the majority of businesses? Who insists that’s where the majority of businesses are? Where are the houses? Do you see the problem? And the answer is NOT to build more houses in St Helier, the answer is to spread workplaces out across the island.
As per the 20mph speed limit, you really are having a laugh. As I pointed out in another posting, if we have a 30mph or 20mph speed limit we will undoubtedly lose the right to drive outwith Jersey. I cannot believe for two seconds that any other nation will continue to recognise the Jersey driving licence. I know the States are desperate for a captive audience but seriously?
People need cars, changes in society have dictated that people need cars. But the States want us to pay to insure and maintain a car and then pay to use the bus on top of that, while having a car that we are already paying for? Has anyone actually thought this through? All we are doing is getting closer to an age where driving is only for the rich. Is that what you want?
Stop putting the blame on the driver. YOU may be lucky enough to not need to drive but I am not.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, this is NOT about the environment. If it were then the States would be tackling numerous other ‘pollutants’ that they are completely ignoring. There is excessive, unnecessary use of electricity in Jersey, there is an unbelievable level of smoking (wonder what that does to the environment) and lack of recycling. The fact that there is a street very close to the shore that constantly smells of smoke shows just how problematic the smoking situation is.
Now of course, if everyone were to cycle to work this would solve part of the problem wouldn’t it?
NO, it wouldn’t. There would have to be showers provided for ALL these people… this means more electricity and lots of water (which I believe is at 60% of its full capacity just now). Have you or the States even thought about the problems this would cause? Somehow, I doubt it… and who would be expected to deal with the problem? Well it wouldn’t be the States would it, no, it would be us, the law-abiding citizen that is simply trying to do a good job and live a reasonable life. A life that is made more and more difficult everyday due to the idiocy and lack of forward planning of a bunch of egotistical numpties calling themselves States Members.
Tell me exactly what the impact on the environment (and cost to businesses) will be of having to provide showers for all the workers cycling to work and I will believe that you have remotely thought this through!
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#29 You can’t tax the boats in the marina. They are owned by States members and captains of industry. Outrageous suggestion
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And none of my drives are less than two miles! Even though walking two miles is extremely painful for me and, on occasion, can cause my legs to seize up altogether.
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Can the States answer this?
Of the seven sites being proposed for new housing developments, how many of them will also incorporate business premises, such that the people buying these houses can choose to do so knowing there will be employment opportunities in their area?
OR, will they have to drive to work (probably in St Helier) because there is no suitable bus service?
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How can they think of a congestion charge, were do they think they live London, this is a very small island, not the USA OR China, its time the
goveroment of this Island grow up, we are fed up of being taxed for this and that.
Its all the places like USA China Russia that are the ones that cause the polution, not a NOTE little island 9×5.
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Leah your blogs are far to long and involved, I dont mean to be rude but I lose interest after the first paragraph.
I stand by my opinion that a 20mph speed limit should be brought in and Im sorry if many of you disagree, thank god we live ina society with freedom of speech, or not as in Jersey’s case.
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Mike Jackson: Well, sir, there’s nothing on earth…
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!
What’d I say?
Terry Le Sueur: Monorail!
Mike Jackson: What’s it called?
Phil Ozouf: Monorail!
Mike Jackson: That’s right! Monorail!
[crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]
Freddie Cohen: I hear those things are awfully loud…
Mike Jackson: It glides as softly as a cloud.
Stuart Syvret: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Mike Jackson: Not on your life, my rebellious friend.
Rev. Bob Key: Were you sent here by the devil?
Mike Jackson: No, good sir, I’m on the level.
Geoff Southern: The ring came off my pudding can.
Mike Jackson: Take my pen knife, my good man.
I swear it’s Springfield’s only choice…
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
All: Monorail!
Mike Jackson: What’s it called?
All: Monorail!
Mike Jackson: Once again…
All: Monorail!
Mrs Macon: But St Helier is still all cracked and broken…
Jeremy Macon: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!
All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
[big finish]
Monorail!
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God knows where you get your shower thing from Leah holmes.
I have the same amount of showers per day as my missus and I cycle and she drives to work.
Dont think that because I cycle I am having 15 showers per day!!!
You could say that gym goers are the same, they should stop being fit because they burn too much electricity. Cancel all gym memberships asap. You are all having too many showers.
Better to be fat and be a burden on the health system.
get a grip Leah.
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I love taking the bus in, the St Helier Express from the airport to town is great, takes only 15-20 mins. However coming back, nightmare. Hate getting the 18.05 number 15, jam packed solid. However they are all pretty full, one person at every bus stop home starting from the beginning of First Tower, takes ages. Why not an express one home, missing out all stops until past Victoria Avenue. Now that would be good! By the way get your change ready before getting on bus, it really annoys me when people are messing around looking for small change!
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leave it out(42) all first time bikers be it on a scooter or motorcycle should at the very least have a days tuition, before going out on the road.
lets be clear here i am not knocking bikers , it a hobby of my own and been round bikes for 30 years .
but with todays traffic, i do not hink you should be able to go into the shop and ride off just because you have mastered four wheels.
yes some people pre 1982 can do this .
you can go on the cbt scheme(pay) learn the ropes, but will not have to take the test, if you have the old style licence.
they will teach you the dangers and wre tobe extra alert.
also i think cbt should start in schools, if you leave school with nothing at least you could ride a scooter to some form of work.
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If we all go to scooters or bikes the noise pollution is going to be horrific. I would already suggest that there should be a ban on their use between 11pm and 7am (as there is meant to be on tooting horns etc).
The States know the solution, but they don’t want to face it. Spread out the workplaces, THEN, and only then, find a way to tax those that CHOOSE to live many, many miles from their place of work.
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‘Its all the places like USA China Russia that are the ones that cause the pollution, not a NOTE little island 9×5.’
Jersey does not produce much pollution in its own right but it is certainly a major polluter per head of population when you figure in all the pollution generated by all the cars, computers and other goods we import.
The island also consumes huge amounts of hidden water in terms of the food that we eat.
Almost all of it is grown elsewhere using the national resources of other countries.
Jersey is part of a global community and if we do not all collectively pull out fingers out soon and do start to tackle the root causes of climate change then the effects could be dire.
Even little 9×5 islands a dozen miles off the coast of France would not be immune from the fall out of a serious ecological catastrophe.
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Leah 47 I totally agree.
Mrs Bead 52, “I don’t mean to be rude” but we could say the same about your posts…..you only ever talk about one subject!
No-one is stopping you from driving at 20 mph, have fun chugging along to your destination, but thankfully you are a minority so we will happily drive at the current limits set.
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On the subject of Connex, if any politician would consider ditching them altogether, saving the taxpayer plenty of money, and install a private operator (or 2) then we may have a better service and competition for routes/fares….and they may receive great support from the totally p*ssed off public!!
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If Constable Jackson wants to get traffic levels down to the same level as it is in the school holidays..why attack the working population?..Jackson needs to sort out these mums and dads that take the poor liitle boys and girls who cant walk to school after all he will only have to sort out 30 weeks of travelling time rather than the 52 weeks of travelling workers…in my days we kids either walked, cycled or caught the bus to school..if you take the school journeys away then the roads are not crowded and then IT WOULD BE SAFE for kiddies to walk and cycle!!!!!!!!!!!
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The key thing is that we have got to get people out of single-occupancy cars,’ he said. ‘We have tried to lock into the Health department strategy to try and get people fitter by cycling and walking because 36 per cent of car trips are less than two miles.’
i wonder how many states members are part of the single occupancy stats
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Still cannot get over the idea that they are now digging up the whole promendade on the avenue. For what??? I thought we were in a recession and should be saving money!!
The sooner this chap is ousted the better. Everyone moaned about Guy de Faye’s ideas, but this chap truely takes the biscuit.
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I’ve just spent most of September in Jersey.
If I drive my UK reg. vehicle at less than 40 mph I see all the signs of grockle intolerance frustration behind me in my mirrors.
If I drive a J reg car slowly they accept it as normal.
Sometimes I get stuck behind someone painfully slow and as the person behind my big van can’t see why we have slowed down I have fitted a switchable sign on the back saying “Sorry mate, I’m following Mrs Bead”
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If politicians:
- made the motorcycle CBT free and available 7 days a week
- made provisional motorcycle licences free
- made motorcycle theory and practical tests free and available 6 days a week
- vastly increased covered motorcycle parking; a whole floor of Sand St would do it
- offered incentives to buy 50cc and 125cc machines
then they would probably solve the “single occupancy car” problem at a stroke.
There you go Mike Jackson, there is your answer. That’s what you need to do.
I’ve seen the future, and the future is motorbikes! Vroom, vroom!
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Mrs Bead, I could say the same about previous posts made by yourself!
Interesting that you completely fail to answer though, makes it clear you haven’t thought it through at all.
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Mrs Bead comment 52, I think your loss of interest in Leah’s posts have more to do with your ability to grasp complex subjects than the content of her posts, and at least she can spell and punctuate. Also you allude to Jersey being a place where you are denied freedom of speech and yet it is precisely this privelage that you would withdraw from Leah.
I’m into my 2nd paragraph now so I don’t suppose you’ll still be reading ( try taking a break between paragraphs ) For those of us like me who have only recently discovered your pearls of wisdom, would you kindly explain the logic behind your island wide 20mph speed limit.
Presumably you don’t like kids getting to school on time or food being on supermarket shelves, or even people having jobs. Also I can run at 24mph, would I face a parish hall enquiry?
Thanks in anticipation and do keep posting, I’ve just noticed our names are very similiar, are we perchance related?
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#64 David
How do motorcyles solve the problem of getting wet?
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People will leave their cars at home once there’s an acceptable alternative. Just appealing to everybody’s environmental conscience is not good enough. The Government need to spend money on the public transport infrastructure, make more buses available at peak times etc
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Get real Jersey!! 21
Connex buses were especially tailored to suit the island roads, so I fail to see how an enormous double-decker can be driven around a sharp bend without taking someone’s wall and half the hedgerow with it (not to mention the tree tops).
So Jersey doesn’t need bigger buses, it needs an improved bus service and new-generation buses (preferably methane/bio-methane powered vehicles which significantly lower harmful emissions and reduce running costs).
Jersey could also do with a fleet of mini-buses for runs where reduced-sized vehicles would suffice, and also for a “town-shuttle-service” from satellite parking lots (low parking fees/free parking would encourage people to use this solution).
I’m sorry to say however, that no public-transport company in the world can afford to run almost-empty buses to off-the-beaten-track destinations, nor can be expected to cough up for “extensive” service improvements. These people are in business to make money and will not reduce profit to satisfy users. So any improvements to the bus service will have to be subsidized by the States (i.e. the taxpayer) so get ready to pay!
Mrs. Rosemary Bead 35
Welcome back!
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Aging population, more younger drivers every year, more people coming to the island for employment, its as many people have said down to numbers, more people more cars! Also the biggest problem on the roads at the moment are tractors, vans and trucks! ive never seen an island so small with so many shipping, building, delivery and commercial vehicles, no wonder the roads are in such a bad state, go to commercial buildings and count the trucks and look at the state of the road there! As usual the man on the street get hit hard and what for, failing roads, bad road layouts around the market, busses to large for the roads with very few people in them because the timetables are so bad, tractors all over the place with a few bits of wood on the trailers, and an aging population that need retesting after a certain age due to bad eye sight. Sort these things out and i might take the proposal seriously!
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Get a Grip, I get my information from knowing cyclists.
They get up shower and then cycle to work, where they also have a shower (thank goodness).
You can bring up the gym thing if you want but I have the same number of showers whether or not I go to the gym (I choose the time to make it that way).
If you want to support a move that is nothing to do with the environment and is purely about bringing more money into the States Members pockets then be my guest. I’m just not stupid enough to believe that this has anything to do with environmental concerns!
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If Gas Place becomes a park, this will reduce car parking spaces and traffic, so do not wait to fine extra parking, build the park now!
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Its been said many times on here but I’m going to say it again.
SORT THE BUSSES OUT
Great timing with this – just when the buses enter their useless winter timetable.
The last bus i can catch to St. Lawrence is 17:50!!
So if I work late, are the states going to cover the cost of a taxi?? I don’t think so.
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Mr Beadmary Rose,
How odd you have a name very simular to mine? My guess is you have selected that name in honour of mine – thank you.
Do you have a point to make about this subject? Apart from a 4 paragraph attack on me – you don’t really have much else to say!
p.s. you may want to check your spelling of, “privelage”
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I still say that small gauge railway to the West and North and cable cars to the East are the way to go as this would provide tourism and enthusiast interest as well as a commuter transport service.
Just think of all those retirees who would love to ride behind or learn to drive a model miniature steam (Or even diesel) locomotive!
All those people who could see Gorey Castle lit up at night from a cable car?or who would be drawn up to other attractions a the Fort(Yet to be installed) by a promised cable car ride with a great view?(Unlike the last effort)
Compared with the £10mn for the Town Park such attractions would be comparatively cheap, as the technology is available and in use elsewhere.(A good scale locomotive 15″ Gauge costs circa £200,000 and track is available secondhand)
The economy needs diversification, tourism needs attractions, commuters need a service,the environment needs less cars in town, retirees need fun and something to do!
We have the technology, and with the States planning to spend £274 million to create jobs etc all we need is the imagination!
We are a small Island why not a small railway?and with retirement age going up to 68 just think of the fun!
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Mrs Bead – I am honored at the personal response you are a legend on this forum, however you have once again comprehensively avoided answering my question. Why do you think a 20mph speed limit is a good idea and how would you surmount the issues I highlight, travelling time to work & school,deliveries to shops & supermarkets and avoidance of gridlock on the roads by drivers who have no viable alternative but to use their cars.Oh and will I be nicked for running at 24mph?
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When you give a decent bus service and not the Wells Fargo Express service then many people will start using the buses.
P.S. Where is this survey on the gov.je website?
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Leah, you have just argued against your own post.
You have the same amount of showers even if you do go to the gym.
As do I when I cycle to work.
Thanks for agreeing with me.
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Leah please stop and think a little bit before you start typing. I have cycled to work everyday for nearly 10years, and I and my colleagues who cycle have our first showers of the day at work (not together I might add – although that would save water). I suggest you question your “knowing cyclists” for OCD symptoms. Surely no one in their right mind would shower prior to exercise, to then shower straight after.
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There has been much talk over the years oif re-ionstating the railway to the west and even as far as corbiere. This would solve so many issues with conjestion on the avenue, La Rue De La Haule etc. Plus it would make a much more exciting and more comfortable journy than the Le Petit Train. I have never seen so many dejected faces than that of the passenger in that horible little thing as on a wet summers day. Join up the new train service with a park and ride scheme so people from the parishes of St. Peter, St. Ouen etc can use it as well and you have a winner. The east of the island is not so easy as most of the line that used to be is now in private ownership but I can see how and overhead cable car system would again work so well again coupled with a park and ride facility. Now also think about small feeder busses to both of these transport systems and again we have a winner. Now think about the cable car systen going up and over fort regent. We would have fantastic views and a way of getting to the fort in a very easy and comfortable fasion. Nice! will it happen? will heck! The States are far too concervative with any changes that would make a real difference.
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The only reason why I drive my car on a DAILY basis is because I am not allowed to leave it in the public car parks for more than 12 hours. I work from home, but have neither a garage nor a drive.
So, every single day I drive my car, trying to find another parking space. If I get one with a max. 3 hour limit only, then I will drive again, trying to find another space.
I, and many of my neighbours, would be more than happy to actually pay for the honour of being allowed to park the car there 24/7….
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As a mother of a 7 and 5 year old I would love to use the school bus to take them to school however I have been told they can not take the bus until secondry school!!!! Why don’t we introduce more smaller buses I know of at least six famalies that would want to put their children on the bus to go to primary schools If we put them on the bus and the buses go to the relevant schools why can’t we use them!!!!
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david (66), good idea , goes further than my idea of teaching in schools.
(69) r b bougourd, search image of a bmw c1.
also a good pair of waterproofs and gloves,
yes i know the wet weather biker looks like the michelin man.
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if i remember right, the late don pallot offered the states a railway free of charge.
they turned it down .
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Mrs. Rosemary Bead. Are you some kind of speed freak?
20 MPH is waaaay too excessive. You could poke someone’s eye out going that fast!
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I am like many of you unable to live without a car I have two young children and live in St Ouens Bay I can not use the bus as it takes too long to get into town and with a winter service the buses are few and far between, I can not walk my son to school as the hill is too steep for a 6 year old and if my husband wants to get to work in town for 9am on a week morning he has to be on the five mile road at 7.15am to get there or the next bus goes about 10am plus he can not work late if he needs to get home as the last bus back goes at 5.45pm and he finishes at 5.30pm.
Taxing the parking does nothing we all just accept the costs and carry on because the alternatives are inadequate, the people who choose to put up parking prices are the ones who get free parking spaces. wake up and realise better services and not more taxes are what we need.
I can only suggest to you all GO ONLINE AND FILL IN THE QUESTIONAIRE ABOUT THIS ON THE GOV.JE website they might just sit up and take notice if enough people say the same thing. The states never pay attention to us on here as they think we are all the same people who just like to have a good moan!
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Pleeeeeeze could someone arrange the confiscation of Mrs Bead’s computer?!
Maybe it’s the recent visit by aliens which has set her off again? – the red lights being her hovering at 20mph (well perhaps 10) on her tricycle as she was beamed up (together with her right and left hand man/woman – was that you Mr Beadmary Rose?)to sit on the steering committee convened to discuss the re-birth of Jersey and in particular its traffic conjestion issues? Mmmmm – I could have sworn I saw a Connex bus hovering out there as well.
Sort out the busses, run them for the people of Jersey, not the tourists – bizzare they run more often in the summer, when the weather is warmer and walks more pleasant (for those in walking distance to work), and routes are cut in winter! We aren’t all in training for the London Marathon you know! What jackass is in charge of this bus service(no answer required!). Provide public transport service to all the parishes in Jersey, not forgetting that people do start work from 7am onwards, and finish anytime up to 7.30pm.
Well, I’ve exceeded three paragraphs (hopefully with no spelling or punctuation errors) so no chance of Mrs Bead reaching the issue on the public transport service.
I’m tired now – Just walked from St Helier to Rozel, got to have a little lie down as have to do it all again tomorrow – I get Sunday off though.
Night Night
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Hooray a fan of my railway/cable car ideas! Come on in Andrew at 82 everybody else thinks I’m crazy but these two technologies are working well elsewhere, there are several commercial 15″Gauge light railways working in the UK with the two famous one’s being at Eskdale in Cumbria and the Romney, Hythe and Dimchurch in East Sussex. Both attract tourists and enthusiasts in droves whilst providing a proper service to the Communities they serve.
I’m not talking amateur stuff here I’m talking a proper quarter scale working railway! The carriages can be a mixture of open and closed rolling stock (There are even disabled carriages available),the section to St Aubin could revive stops at the various old stations (Now Cafe’s) along the way.Change at St Aubin to the line running up to Quennevaise and on to Corbiere, with maybe a branch line to the Airport? What a great way to start a family holiday!
Another line from Springfield,basically following Grand Vaux or the Trinity Road to the States Farm at Trinity with terminus and park and ride!
Cable cars: First stop Howard Davis Park,then the Golf Course,then on out to Gorey following the inner road route, possible branches to Green Island and La Hocque?
Again the technology is tried and tested and operating successfully in several countries. You don’t have to have mountains!
These schemes need not cost more than £5 million, if that, and can be introduced in stages to test the water.
Too much fun to be taken as a serious option I’m afraid, but an option that has a lot of sense none the less!
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Get A Grip #80, I didn’t argue against my own post, cycling to work and going to the gym are not the same thing. You go to the gym and shower, you cycle to work and shower then cycle home again (and presumably shower again).
Finchos #81, that’s good that you do it that way, some don’t. But as I said above, what do you do after cycling home?
I am thinking before I type, which is why I’m making the point that this anti-car movement has nothing to do with the environment, if it did then the same people would be up in arms about all sorts of things, but they’re not! So the evidence is that their motives are not so pure at all.
This is a money making scheme. The States are the very people that have made it so that you NEED to drive but then they’ll penalise you for driving! What else can you call it thank money making?
I have a lot of concern for the environment and I do my bit, those who are genuinely concerned about the environment should be angered that the States make a mockery of their concerns by using ‘environmental concern’ as a convenient excuse to make more money.
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The Fiscal Policy Panel have already told the States not to introduce any new taxes during a recession….one would have thought Senator Ozouf and Constable Jackson with their great respect for “experts” would accept the sense of this.
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#69 – R B Bougourd
Motorcycle waterproofs are fantastic nowadays.
On rainy days, whenever I walk from the motorbike park to my office in my “wets” and helmet, I reckon I’m actually drier than those who are struggling in the wind and rain, walking from their car with an umbrella that’s getting pulled inside out!
Most modern scooters have great under seat storage for wet weather gear, so you never get caught out. Petrol costs me about £50 – a year!
What’s more, politely and safely filtering to the front of all traffic jams is just a joy. Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it.
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Oh well, completed the survey!
Can anyone tell me why taxis are better than cars? Also, have the States considered anything other than just charging more?
Why allow schools to insist that kids are collected from the gates? Why not encourage groups of kids to walk to school together? Why not spread out businesses across the island so that people can live outwith St Helier and still work within a walkable distance of their home? Why not realise that many people can only afford 1 car and need to also use it outwith Jersey? They clearly haven’t thought any of this through.
Does anyone else have a condition that regularly affects their mobility but which isn’t permitted as a reason for a disability badge? I couldn’t use a bus service because my condition doesn’t give me enough warning to feel safe doing so. The States are not giving any indication as to how they will help people like me, how can I vote FOR something if it may leave me verging on housebound?
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This subject has already been voted on by the states and thrown out on a standing vote. Members voted by 25 to 18 to back a proposal from Environment Minister Freddie Cohen in 2008 to throw this proposition out. He stated that this was not the right time for new taxes. And he is right.
Yet we now have the treasury dept putting forward a range of new stealth taxes (“indirect tax”) with this proposal. This proposal is not about the environment but about taking more money from people’s pockets. It is a fact of modern life we need to use our cars for work, school runs, business meetings, going to the hospital etc.
It is not practical to say ban the cars and reduce the speed limit to appease a small group of eco warriors who have an axe to grind because someone might own a nicer car than them. If that’s the case ban bigger houses as well.
In a utopia society that might work but this is the real world we live in and the day I see 53 states members walking to work, riding a bike in the pouring rain or taking the bus so will I. Life is far to busy for most people to stop using the car it is not practical to do so. It is the preferred mode of transport for good reason.
It is warm in the winter and cool in the summer. It takes you straight to your destination and you have the flexibility to come and go when you want, with the children, with the dog and all the articles that we take with us.
Mr Jackson is heavily involved in the marine industry. And yet no new taxes are being proposed to protect the environment from boat owners. Why not? In fact they don’t even pay duty on the fuel they use! This is totally unfair considering the amount of road fuel taxes that we pay. This needs further scrutiny as to the reasons why.
Make your voice heard and go to the states website and fill in the online questionnaire tell your states member that you have had enough of increased states spending and increased taxes to pay for it.
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Life without the freedom afforded by car ownership would be unthinkable for most people nowadays.
However no cars drive themselves to town – yet.
So if we are getting snowed under with cars perhaps it is as a result of encouraging too many people to live in Jersey.
Oops, I forgot. The more people there are the bigger the market is. Including car sales.
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Leah, never presume anything.
I have 2 showers per day. Whether I am cycling in or not.
The cyclists you know may be a bit obsessive if they have more.
Its a bit of a silly argument tbh, the shower thing.
The states should subsidise the cost of our bikes and provide more secure facilities. All at the car drivers expense. But….you need to prove that you cycle in more than 200 days per year to qualify.
Getagrip cyles everyday, no matter what. Why should I line the states pockets with petrol/carpark charges?
You lot must be loaded if you can drive in every day and pay for parking. My mrs has a free space with her job, thank gawd or she would be on her bike.
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Get a grip………you need to get a grip !!
“The states should subsidise the cost of our bikes and provide more secure facilities. All at the car drivers expense. But….you need to prove that you cycle in more than 200 days per year to qualify.”
How ridiculous. Why should the car driver pay for the cyclists facilities and how do you propose proving your 200 day qualifying rule?
There is no point just throwing suggestions up in the air without thinking them through first.
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The issue I think is those that drive when they live less than 2 miles from their place of work – there will be times a car is needed – but driving for such short distances is so lazy. My wife and I never take the car to work – only a 30 minute walk or 10 minute cycle – easy.
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Forget about all this schemes. Just drive to work as usual.
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76. Rosemary Bead – Whilst I don’t necessarily agree with your views re: the 20mph limit, I would defend your right to express your views without being slated by some of the other wags who post on here. I find it highly ironic that they criticise you for apparently talking nonsense when much of what they say is absolute drivel….in my opinion. Still, makes life interesting eh. Keep the posts coming, don’t let them grind you down.
P.S – You might want to check your spelling of ‘similar’!!
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Well I can’t sell my miniature railway/cable car ideas so how about these alternatives:
1)Have a subsidy scheme for the purchase of small electric vehicles such as the electric Smart Car, for commuters?
2)Couple this with a decree that all offices with large car parks halve the size of half their parking spaces to accommodate these vehicles and stop the snobbery associated with office parking!
3)Make it a condition of the scheme that all owners must bring one other commuter to work (Or child to school) at least twice a week.
4)Subsidize where possible the installation in company car parks of hydraulic stacking for cars.
5)Try an electric car hire and ride scheme from key points in town, and key locations out of town. Possibly an annual hire contract?
6)Investigate and remove all unnecessary traffic calming measures that are causing bottlenecks on the main commuter route into town.
7)Ban the use of Heavy Goods lorries/Tractors with trailers in Town between 8-9am and 4.30-6pm. Particularly scaffolding trucks!(Except with special permission and then only in dire circumstances).
8)Insist all companies (with private car parks where possible)allocate at least two places for White Van man delivering.
9)Sort out the manually controlled traffic crossings at each end of the Tunnel and remove one of the sets of lights at the Western end.It would not hurt pedestrians to walk a few steps West and cross at one set of lights!
10)Investigate all disused commercial sites in town for temporary use as parking for electric vehicles.
11)Ensure better coordination of proposed road maintenance and service installation works.
I still like the miniature railway idea and the cable cars but maybe the above would cater for our ageing population now, and stop the rot for town shop keepers who are being penalized by traffic restrictions.
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Roy Travert 91
Re your comment: “It is not practical to say ban the cars and reduce the speed limit to appease a small group of eco warriors who have an axe to grind because someone might own a nicer car than them.”
It beats me how you can confuse environment awareness with “envy”.
People who don’t want to throw their rubbish into the lives of future generations are in no way envious of people who drive “world-killer” vehicles.
I am one of those “awful” eco-warriors, and I can honestly say that I practise what I preach. I have an eco-friendly car which I use only when absolutely necessary. It’s nothing to look at (my choice was guided by my beliefs), yet it probably cost more than many of those “WOW-THE-NEIGHBOURS” vehicles one sees around.
So before you croak about “eco-warriors”, take it from me, the “Who’s-got-the-biggest-car-competition” is not for environmentalists, it’s for people who don’t care about your descendants…and mine!
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I would be happy to leave my car at home, but with a bus service that runs every 2 hours in the winter and finishes at half past six in the evening I don’t really have much choice!
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Nick,
Your shortest ever post is also your best ever!
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I meant, of course, #100.
Then the thread refreshed with #102, a classic Nick offering.
It would make things a lot easier for your readers if you were to insert the occasional paragraph blank line. It breaks it up into manageable chunks for those of us who scan read.
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I agree we should have more motorbike parking spaces or a bus service that is cheeper why should the Jersey person have to pay for parking in town when the states members get it for free they earn more per month than us and they get free parking as well as all the other perks of being states members, I would love to choose the hours I worked but I have to work for a living I dont get handed a wage for doing nothing, as many states members do.
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One of your better posts Nick.
A lot of us who post on here do not want to destroy capitalism or offshore finance and we are not motivated by envy or a wish to bring everybody down to the same level.
But we realise that action has to be taken and soon if we are to avert environmental catastrophe.
We are consuming far more of the planet’s resources than can be sustained in the long term and the results of this will be visited on us if we live long enough and certainly on our children.
As for having two showers a day, give me strength!
If every islander had two showers a day the reservoirs would have been empty long ago.
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Let us see a lead from the front, has the transport minister got a bike…………?
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I live at First Tower and have tried to use the bus around 3 times in the last six months. Twice to go to the Airport for a flight and once to go to Corbiere for a sponsored walk start. All three times I was passed by a full bus and 2/3 times the bus driver was grinning at us as they drove past. That was a nice touch. I am glad that I have my trusty bicycle. I am also proud that we are a family of four (two small children) and do not use our car more that 2-3 times a week, as we all prefer to cycle when possible. My message though is to say that I would not trust the buses to get me where I need to be – the service is not robust enough and the grinning should stop
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I paid £20,000 for my car, and I’m going to drive it whenever & wherever I like.
Nobody’s going to make me get on a bus!
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Born worrier….Mike Jackson’s call is akin to the awful old spectre of the rich telling the poor it’s time to tighten your belts….complete and utter nonsense.stop immigration thus more cars..gass guzlers or not…more just equals …more…so stop the population growth.cut back on spending..and those of us left can drive about as normal……complain to Philip ,Mike not us…we put you there so please get on with what WE need.
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#97, I’m not rich. I walk to work when I can, if I can’t I work from home, but not all people have that option. I’ve almost always lived within walking distance of my work, I think it’s the best way.
As for the shower thing, it’s not that silly at all. It would cost businesses a lot to put in showers for their workers (if they even could) and would they pay for the electricity/water etc or would the cyclists (rightly) be asked to contribute? What about the queues for showers that would form if the States had their way. Don’t know about you but I don’t want to work next to people who have cycled miles to work and haven’t had a shower afterwards.
None of the States ideas will stop those that currently drive distances under 2 miles because they will mostly be rich people or people taking their kids to school! I don’t see either of those types changing their lifestyle somehow.
#101 I said Mrs Bead was talking nonsense because when people pointed out the blatant holes in her plans she totally avoided their questions (more than once) and refused to give her solution to the many problems a 20mph limit would cause. It’s naive at best. An idea like the 20mph limit will cause many problems, if Mrs Bead has any remote solution to these problems I’m sure we would love to hear it.
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#103… well said! Everything in Jersey comes down to someone being accused of jealousy. Some of us are just not materialistic so why would we envy others cars? We’re more likely to pity the person for being a slave to materialism!
And believe me, I love cars and I appreciate the beauty of many of them, doesn’t mean I feel the need to own them though.
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nick (102), i like the idea of a train, also the idea of stacking cars, carl le brocq had a grat idea for a new type car park, modular steel, and parked far more cars than in our traditional concreate style car park, the new style car park could also be clad in a way as to resemble the building next door, but like most home grown ideas , no up take.
roy travert(95)correct, still no tax on pleasure boat fuel, but the fishermen and commercial boat users, do not need further taxes.
pip clement(108) if it was not for the finance industry , i would be unemployed.
i do not have two showers a day and have been known to be a “soap dodger”
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With the States taking 40p per litre in duty, I am suprised that a States member is suggesting a reduction in car use.
However, it might be worth bringing over a couple of Double Deckers to trial on the western route. However, to stand any chance of working, one would have to build a massive car park out west so people can drive from their houses to a pick up point. However, if this realy did lead to a serious reduction of traffic and reduced journey times, people would soon revert back to using their cars.
Interesting points made re use of scooters and motorbikes, and I agree that with decent waterproofs, you can actually get to the office in a dryer state, than thouse who park up and walk.
I am unsure however if a reduction of traffic through the use of two wheeled transport would result in safer roads. The very opposite I think ! Current traffic volumes, and slow speeds probably contribute to very safe roads.
Finaly, as a taxpayer, I would not be happy if grants / subsidies were given to thouse who buy an electric car. Afrer all, at 40p per liter in tax, and at 7,000 miles a year at 24 m.p.g, I pay over £500 per year in fuel tax.
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LEAH…if everybody cycled and nobody showered everybody would smell as bad as each other so no need to shower
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I’ve read some good replies and some really daft ones (Speed Limit to be reduced to 20MPH)but I need to say that the worst of the lot was included in the Evening Post last week, Cannot remember who it was from but ultimately, they were attempting to lay the blame for the congestion at the feet of the much maligned 4×4! I near wet myself laughing at the idiocy of this statement. Furthermore, they then went on to say that the owning of such a beast of a thing was tantamount to snobbery…well that was it, I needed to change my underwear at that point! I can only guess that the JEP printed the letter for the comedy value because that what it was…a joke! The congestion is caused by all manner & types of vehicles not just the big bad ’4×4′, what about the lorries, normal 2×2 cars (lol)etc? Oh, I see get rid of the 4×4, replace them with ‘normal’ cars, that will reduce congestion….as I say idiocy! And the snobbery statement..
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Just another note, myself and my wife went skiing in Italy recently and were amazed by the local public transport i.e ‘The Bus’. They were big, loads of storage as you would expect for skis and such but with plenty of seats also. They were also regular and always on time but do you know the most amazing thing was that the whole service was totally FREE. No matter where in the region you were going (not a kick in the backside off the size of Jersey)the service was totally FREE to use. Now would that not be a great thing to have and maybe, just maybe the public would use the bus more.
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Wow this thread has grown since I first posted, Truthseeker is right we need to cap or at least control immigration. You won’t stop people using cars, especially rich mums in the huge 4X4′s taking little Johhny on the arduous half mile trek to school, mummy absolutely must be seen in her Chelsea tractor by the other mums.
Why we don’t have a policy where we cherry pick those we want to live in the island is beyond me, we could keep out everyone with a criminal record, Guernsey have not allowed those with a criminal record into the island for over 20 years, can’t be that hard. Instead we have an innefective 5 year rule and a virtual open door – let em in now worry later policy.
If the cost of motoring increases further
( and can anyone remember when petrol used to be cheap? ) people will just moan and pay it.We need a more effective means of control – work permits please before the island is overrun with vermin ( the two legged variety ).
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I don’t think they really need to worry about cars in St Helier in the future as between internet shopping,parking costs and restrictions,one way systems, and high commercial rents there will be few shops left to draw people into Town.
As for the finance industry (Like Japanese manufacturing) with increased competition,ill thought out attacks by people and politicians who either misunderstand the purpose of offshore low/no tax areas (Or deliberately wish to destroy them to conform to some sort of personal irrational dogma),and the fact that the bulk of our population in the Western developed countries face several years of straightened circumstances financially,I suspect there will be little expansion of activity causing more commuter activity!
Leah Holmes: If you have a medical condition that effects your mobility, then you should qualify for a disabled badge.
There is a medical panel who scrutinize applications and there are requirements as to how far you can walk etc. which you have to satisfy with evidence from your doctor, medical history etc.
It is not just a matter, as I am sure you are aware, of applying for a badge just because you are a certain age or have an occasional twinge from a damaged finger joint!
It may have been that way when the scheme was first introduced but it isn’t now.
I hope if you can and need to qualify that you get a badge as the scheme is a huge help for people with mobility problems.
Mrs Rosemary Bead: love your 20mph scheme !
If only we could turn the clock back and like Sark return to horse drawn carriages.
Think of all the new jobs: footmen,carriage drivers,blacksmith’s,saddlers etc.
But parking your open Landau or coach and four could take up a bit of space?
All those water troughs (All EEC standard of course)very tempting for teenage drunks! (Teenage drunks?They all drank beer back then anyway as water was a health risk)
But think also of all that manure in the road and to dispose of! the flies! the smell!
Small vagrant children clearing a path from one pavement to the other and charging pedestrians to cross!(Kept ‘em busy if not that clean!)
Would it stop accidents?
Well a panicking two ton Shire Horse doesn’t have an emergency stop control as many Victorians found out, and as for accidents? well statistically I think you’ll find the car is a better option.
And animal welfare people would have a field day checking on those maltreated draft horses!
May be men with Red Flags to walk in front of your car as you progress about Island roads occasionally stopping to pick wild flowers or wild nuts and berries from the hedgerow ?
Love it, love it! such elegance.
If only it were practical.
Small electric vehicles are the future, but even they can be dangerous, you can’t hear them coming!
(Speed and scan readers:Hopefully there are enough paragraph breaks?)
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Truthseeker 112.
I think you were referring to me.
Firstly, I wasn’t complaining, I was putting forward my environmentalist views.
Secondly, I totally agree that Jersey’s leaders MUST practise what they preach and be seen doing so. Therefore, they can start by giving up their free-parking spaces (surplus to their requirements if they and their families cycle or travel by bus).
Thirdly, without doubt, spending cuts are not only necessary but are now “VITAL” to the continuation of Jersey’s present system and welfare scheme.
And “yes”, Jersey is struggling to cope with the present number of inhabitants, so some form of immigration control may be the answer…but what is to be done about those who have made their home in Jersey?
Are they to be forced to return to their fatherlands?
I don’t think so! No-one’s going anywhere, these people have roots (no matter how young).
So, a “real-mode” approach to the current problem is required, and not your “EXODUS” dream mode.
And to be quite frank, I’m quite sure there’s some sinister money-grabbing design behind these proposals; but I’m not going to knock something that will help the environment and the quality of life (for all) in Jersey!
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Dear all,
Apologies for not responding sooner. My little Scottish Terrier, Leah has had a bad case of the runs and ive been looking after her all weekend and havent had a chance to go on my computer.
A 20mph speed limit would not cause traffic problems as some of you suggest. The theory of relativity applies here. What is the diffrence between cars travelling at 20mph or 40mph, apart from the slower speed, it would not cause traffic problems anymore than 1mph would. Yes you would arrive at destinationss later and the journey would be longer but its all relative and everyone would be travelling at the same speed, so I do not accept the proposistion that a 20mph would cause traffic problems, and see no scientific evidence to support such mad ideas.
Current cars on the road would have to be replaced with newer greener cars that can handle lower speeds. Therefore forcing people to think about lower emission more economical greener cars. Yes it is big brother type legislation but someone has to do something before the earth is ruined by selfish generations of people who argue short-term solutions.
Emergency services would of course be permitted to travel at whatever speed they need to, as is the case now – provided they do so in a safer manner as possible.
Jersey is a small Island and could cope with a 20 mph speed limit. Its not even 20mph long, so no journey would take more than an hour, allowing for traffic lights e.t.c.
You all need to think outside of the box, and stop thinking like the older resource wasting generations (no disrespect meant) who have gone before us.
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We should tax the politicians and social workers for making such stupid laws and comments.
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Mrs Rosemary Bead, sorry to hear that your dog has had the threppeny bits. I trust he did not break your 20mph speed limint when making his deposits.
Alas in spite of several people asking why you insist on a 20mph island wide speed limit you have failed to answer this question, do you know why you insist on this insanity or is it simply something that appeals to you and you don’t know why.
Oh and I ask again, will I face a parish hall enquiry for running at 24mph.
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#111 Darren
I appreciate a bit of honesty from people, and that’s exactly what you’ve given me.
There’s a massive proportion of Jersey’s population who couldn’t give a monkeys about the standard of public transport, they will drive their cars regardless
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#123, you’ve (again) failed to answer questions about the problems your 20mph limit would cause, although I’m sure Einstein would be delighted by your rather odd comment. What about Jersey driving licences not being recognised in other countries? What about people being forced into owning two cars because the environmental ones would be no use when they go off the island?
The article is about getting cars off the road, not about slowing them down!
Some of us actually care about the environment, not just about getting cars off the road! And if it is about the environment then why have the States created an island where people have to drive everywhere? Why do they continue to add to the number of people who will have to drive from home to work?
#117, we won’t all be able to cycle to work though!
#121 Nick, unfortunately the NHS is way behind on their knowledge of a number of conditions, one of which is the one I have. The training given on it is ridiculously out of date. Never mind that pain can’t be seen. I often choose to walk and suffer the pain (trying not to worsen my mobility), but that kind of attitude probably works against me when disability issues arise. I don’t believe people should be forced to just suffer the pain because pain impacts on your general health.
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#123 Please tell me you understand that roads do not go ‘as the crow flies’?
Surely you understand that every idea has repercussions and can create problems that will need solving. Do you honestly believe there are no negative repercussions to your idea or are you just choosing to be blind to them? Please note, I’m not being rude, that is a genuine question, I’m always intrigued when people refuse to discuss the ‘cons’ of their plan.
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Rather than commenting on here about everything TTS need to do to encourage people to actually car share or stop driving, why don’t you all fill in their survey on possible sustainable transport plans, the link is here incase you don’t feel like trying to find it on their site:http://www.gov.je/TransportTechnicalServices/Transport/STP.htm
then maybe if enough people give them sensible comments and suggestions (like sorting the buses out cos they are terrible) they might actually do something worth while for a change…or maybe someone needs to bribe that ring binder again…
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I have a great idea for this, i have invented something that would benefit us all! its got six wheels, a lot of space, its convenient for all, arrives on time, drops you where you need to go and its relyable! ive called this idea a bus! here we dont have busses we have connex! Maybe we should get a bus system that runs a service that we all could benefit from, Ive had another idea Its called cycle lanes! this is a place where the lane has no cars, its safe, clean and you can cycle at whatever speed you want! here we have green lanes, no cyclists use them, your restricted to 15 mph and they upset drivers who need to get around.
Maybe just maybe common sense will enter the states and they will all realise they haven’t got a clue what there doing! they say its to help us! is it? it helps who? is it the mass tourists we get here in the summer? is it the locals delivery guys and girls who need to deliver items to houses across the island? or is it to pander to a system called europe! hmmm there are certain things im noticing about all these ideas, independence from the uk! is this Jersey wanting to join the euro and its funding?
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It does amuse me reading the comments about the island being over populated and “True Jersey People”. I agree the island is over populated, but you realise that if there were only “True Jersey People” on the island you would all have atleast 6 fingers on each hand and god knows what other deformaties and herediatary illnesses! Mixing of cultures is what keeps the island vaguely healthy and moving, how many locals do you actually see working in hospitality for example other than as the owner or landlord?
The worst traffic is around the start and end of school and office hours and the majority of the ‘local’ population work in offices and are therefore driving around at these times, whereas the non-locals are probably either still in bed as they only finished work a couple of hours earlier, or aren’t starting until later in the day, or they are already at work, as well as that the majority of polish workers (or the ones I know at least) actually live where they work so they aren’t going to be driving anywhere to get to work! Sorry went slightly off topic there…so back to the relevant subject…
Most of the traffic is caused by all the cars with only one passenger in each, and all the mothers driving their one small child to work in their tank. As other people have mentioned the roads move a lot easier during the school holidays. I have nothing against parents driving their children to school, especially if the parent also works in town, but surely the majority of areas in the island must be serviced by a conveniant school bus? For those in ares that aren’t, how about a car share scheme?!
If everyone had small cars there would immediately be more space on the roads as each vehicle would be taking up half the amount of road. So if everyone got small cars and then arranged to car share with friends and family imagine how much space there would suddenly be!
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Football pitch on gas place carpark. Afterall, if footballers are serious about getting fit then they will not need their cars to get to the pitch.
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Fair play to you,good comment,however I do not advocate forced repatriation or exodus except deportation for wrong doers from outside as homegrown ones are enough…..just want to see a grown up immigration approach and respect for our culture and traditions coupled with joined up government……..the littany of faux pas and excuses here is at criminal levels.
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As a mad suggestion how about we reduce the number of cars entering St Helier by reducing the number of states members parking spaces down to approximately 2 1/2 spaces this way they can all give a trial run on commuting to work with more than one person in their car, find a car that will fit in the spaces and like many of us all have to leave home at the crack of dawn just to try and get to one of the few spaces available. and if they miss out well they will have to keep popping out of work to move their cars about just like the rest of us who have to struggle every day to get in and make a living! for those states members who are environmentally aware amd walk or cycle I apologise for my sarcasm
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#123 Mrs Bead
You are talking absolute nonsense with regards to 20mph speed limits
You seem to be working on the assumption it would frustrate everybody to the point they would rather walk.
You clearly don’t drive yourself, otherwise you’d never recommend such ridiculous ideas.
Unfortunately, it’s people detached from reality who often end up in Government in Jersey, so no doubt you’ll be in the Chamber very soon
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Rosemary Bead –
Why do you insist on a 20mph speed limit across the island, what is its purpose and what will the benefits be?
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To everybody who says they cannot live without a car, this is just your addiction talking, after all people were keeping horses and having children for hundreds of years before cars came along and they got along very nicely thankyou.
It is true that our modern urban/suburban environment (Jersey is essentially one big suburb, albeit a very pretty one) is designed for the convenience of car drivers rather than anyone else, but this will only change when enough people choose to leave their cars at home and demand change.
It’s easy to point the finger and blame other people but when it comes to traffic noise, pollution and congestion we must all take our share of the responsibility and we must all do something about it. If enough people choose to do so the rest will be shamed into action, maybe one day lone driving will become as shameful as drink driving.
Fully integrated public transport systems will follow demand. If we all continue to sit on our arses in our cars then nothing will ever change and we will get nowhere, literally.
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Pros:-
less road accidents. scientifically proven.
cleaner more efficient cars with transmission technology improved – long term
less cars on the road – long term
better public transport – long term
less fuel consumption – long term
cleaner air for our children to breath
less congestion and traffic problems
less obesity and musculo skeletal problems
save the Island for future generations
Contribute to the Earth trying to solve the global warming issue (The Earth is that big thing outside of the Jersey bubble)
Countries like Japan have smaller more efficient cars with low speed limits and they have cut down polution levels and accidents considerably
less speed = better quality of life.
less cars, more space for houses – helps the rising population issue.
Cons:-
disruption – short term
Jersey people having to be pursuaded to change.
people in Jersey believing they can actually walk from First Tower to ‘town’ rather than driving a 4 by 4 on their own at excessive speeds.
Taking something away from people who mistake this for a civil rights issue.
trying to make people think outside of the box.
trying to make people understand that the change of speed limit would not affect their lives as much as they think, it would in the long term improve it, and the world does not revolve around them and their selfish reasoning.
Leah, the speed limit on the Island is already less than Europe and UK so it would not affect your license whatsoever!
Beadmary Rose, The reasons are set out in my ‘cons’ section above.
This is my personal opinion granted to me by the Human Rights Act.
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What about a ralistic TAX ON MARINE FUEL ?
The current situation is crazy.
Motor boats are VERY uneconomical and can be highly polluting machines. I don’t care what any boat owner says… It’s true !
How many miles will an average size motor boat travel on one gallon of fuel ? say no more.
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Good point Andy #140 re marine fuel. Most 35 foot boats consume one gallon for every mile – In fact motor boats fuel consumption is quoted in Gallons per Hour which is often 30 Gallons per hour – Enough to keep the average motorist in fuel for six weeks !!!
Tax ‘em I say, Mr Jackson !
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Mrs Bead, your comment in #123 is insulting to the older generations, I am afraid to say. My grandparents were extreemly carful and made do with what they had. My parents are also very carefull and make do and mend.
It’s the current generation who are forced to waste resources through non repairable items. You are even saying that we should change our perfectly usable cars for modern ones.
My wife has owned her car from new for 9 years and it has only done 26,000 miles. It has plenty of life left in it, so why should she be forced to buy a new car ?.
My own car which is a similar age is quite capable of managing 20 mph if conditions dictate. It can also travel very nicely at 120 mph where conditions allow. I would suggest that you keep your dog on a lead when walking on a main road. If your dog ran into the path of a car and caused damage to the vehicle, the driver would have a very good case for claiming damages from you, I am afraid to say.
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I couldnt agree with you more.
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Mrs Rosemary Bead – Are you Annie de Feu in disguise??
The Jersey you remember and long for is dead.
Don’t worry though because I have a suggestion. Perhaps we can meet up & I’ll take you for a spin in my new car. We’ll probably be doing 50-60mph, but if we knock over a few immigrants you’ll enjoy the ride
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137 KE
That’s true, but change must come from the top. I.e. the government needs to provide suitable alternatives.
We already subsidise the bus service and it clearly does not serve the public so a) why do we continue with the subsidy when they do not provide the service the tax payer needs b) why doesn’t the states introduce a states owned transport service as part of the “fiscal stimulation”??
This will create jobs and also (hopefully) provide a cheaper alternative for transport….like someone posted earlier about the bus service in Italy….there is no reason (apart from greed) that the states cannot provide a decent and free transport service.
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It’s all well and good trying to convince people to give up their cars but let’s first have a credible alternative. Having moved from Town to St Brelade in June of this year I tried using the bus to work (the St Helier Express, route 15) for two months before my wife and I decided that our car is by far the better option. Why would we choose to sit on uncomfortable bolt upright seats in which an average sized person can barely get their legs behind the seat in front? Just about every bus I have taken has had the heater (running the full length of the bus) switched on even during the summer. On top of that there is the over-crowding on the ‘commuter’ buses which results in numerous people not even being able to board the bus and having to wait another 20 minutes in the hope that the next bus has space. I’m sure that we can all agree that travel by car is not an ideal travel solution but nothing else comes even remotely close to replacing it yet.
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138 Rosemary
I am saddened by the loss of your beloved pet but I and countless others have lost pets in similar circumstances. One of my cats was killed by a tractor……does that mean we should ban tractors too (I would certainly like this but I also know it is not practical for the farmer).
It is not the vehicles which killed your and our pets but the idiots driving them!
Your posts in 139 seem to me to derive from bitterness (perhaps at the loss of your pet?)rather than reasonable thinking.
Just my opinion granted to me by the Human Rights Act (which is also a load of old tosh)!
Why should humans have rights when they have no regard for anything else on this planet?????
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We need a world wide tax on marine and air fuel.
Millions of tons of fuel are consumed moving goods that could have been made locally across the globe.
As for pleasure boats, they should face a uniform carbon tax per litre.
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Rosemary, you can get across the whole of the UK and I presume all of France at 40mph, you cannot get across either country at 20mph. There is skill difference between driving at 20 and driving at 40 so there would be a need to not recognise Jersey driving licences outwith Jersey.
I sympathise about your dog, but have to agree that dogs should not be off the lead near roads, nor young children. In your case the driver was to blame, but that’s often not the case. There would be far less road accidents if pedestrians used common sense and driving licences were not handed out like sweeties!
Less cars won’t make room for more houses, roads will still be needed for emergency vehicles and for people who, like me, cannot use public transport and will still have to drive (or be housebound).
Less speed does not mean better quality of life for all. For you, probably, for others, not at all. Remember, the States caused the situation where so many people live miles from their workplace!
Would these cleaner, efficient cars allow us to get off of Jersey once in a while, or would be stuck here for the SoJ to fleece us even more?
Less cars should, of course, help obesity levels, but I know obese people who do lots of exercise and just eat more calories because of it. Diet is key.
There are many ways to solve the problems you mention. Why not stop using a washing machine, a cooker, freezer…? Don’t fly. Buy food produced locally. Only a fraction of environmental issues are about cars.
I’m all for more community, and agree entirely with your last two paragraphs… that’s much more like it is back on my home island and it’s a good way to live. But the States ideas on this matter simply make driving a thing for the rich alone and penalise those with mobility problems. I can never support that.
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Just did a double-check before counteracting the pollution argument for 20mph.
Pollution from cars drops the faster the car is going, until about 70-80mph when it rises steeply. Pollution actually drops quite drastically between 20 and 30mph, with some of the pollutants being twice as high at 20mph as they are at 40mph. The source was the Environmental Protection Agency so I’m inclined towards trusting it but welcome corrections from other sources.
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Mrs Bead, thank you for finally responding to the question we’ve all been asking. As I suspected your reasoning is utter nonsense, please allow me to respond using logic ( yes sorry about that ) to your points.
1 – Less road accidents – no one would dispute this as a statistic but the number of fatal road accidents in Jersey is nominal, of those that exist they are either caused by drink/drugs driving who should never have been behind the wheel anyway or speeding police cars ( and no one’s suggesting banning those )
Most sane people consider the risk at 40mph to be acceptable, what next slow down trains as they also have accidents and planes also – hold on I can see a problem here, slow them down too much and they’ll fall out the sky, have to re think that one.
2 – Cleaner and more effeciant cars – so the world renowned Jersey car manufacturing industry would make cleaner and more effecient cars exclusively for the Jersey market?? or are you suggesting that the major car manufacturers would invent new models just for the Jersey market, as for cleaner this is easily done – wash your car more often.
3 – Less cars on the road – this pre supposes that people would foregoe cars, the reason we have so much traffic is precisely because they won’t.
4 – Better public transport – we’ve been asking for this for years, no one’s listening.
5 – Cleaner air – only if people gave up their cars, see point 3 above.
6 – Less congestion – see point 3.
7 – Less obesity – see point 3.
8 – Save the island for future generations – why, are cars killing it, I’ve yet to see a murderous vehicle.
9 – sorry I’m losing the will to live so will skip a few.
10 – Less speed = better quality of life ? so by taking away the thing that makes life easy people will be happier?
11 – Less cars more space for houses – ah you’ve saved the best til last, so if there are less cars we can build more houses, presumably on the roads as the cars doing 20mph can drive round them.
Does anyone else think Mrs Bead’s argument is nonsense or have I got it wrong?
I’m off to commit hari kari, one less car on the road.
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we all need to understand one reason for driving is the need for efficiency and speed to reach our destination, to those of you who think everyone can walk or USE a Horse no 137 get real. society as a whole has forced us to speed up, women have to run a home(albeit with help from partners) look after their children and get a job, in the good old days when people worked their own land and had to get to school walking they often worked near to home or women didnt need to work at all, children where safe to walk the roads from an early age and some did not go to school past the age of 11 and also men worked the land not the calculators,we also lived as a community not a large group of individuals. On the the other side people died early and women were not equals.
Certain roads in the island need slowing down, I agree. But there should not be a total change for all roads, just look across the water at Guernsey they drive at 35mph a lot drive like maniacs more women walking with prams have been hit by cars than over here and the roads are so narrow they are constantly mounting pavements, but they have cheaper fuel and dont pay for parking!
Public transport needs to prove itself a viable option before anything will change look at London, tube trains and buses are used by all because they are frequent and low cost, it costs more to go from st helier out west than to travel from one side of London to the other (approx £1 per bus journey using oyster card)!
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Mrs Bead,
Are you infact Mr jackson transport minister, or mr simon crowcroft! They both dont know what there talking about either and love there trusty bikes, its almost as mad as the plan making town vehicle free, and with health and saftey not allowing vehicles enter padestrian areas, plus not allowing you to carry anything over 25kilos, then bashing shoppers in the shins with a trolley trying to get through doorways! when will this madness end! Facts point to the outcome not ideas made up in the head! As an island we actually make less pollution than most places in the world, Why should we take the blame for China, India, America and most of the industrial areas around the world who will only change on a very very small scale. We dont even make our own electricity! France does that for us. Yes we have a lot of cars for the size of the island but look at it like this, we have over 90,000 cars on the island compared with the uk with over 12 million, and America reaching over a billion, and china and india with over a billion cars/motorbikes. we are like a spec of dust in the whole situation and what do the states do! make money out of it. Nothing changes when it comes to tax, trends come and go, If they wanted to do something all the main countries in the world would stop looking for oil for the use of petrol in places like Cuba, Libia, Chad, Iraq, Greenland, Antartica, Russia, Mexico. The list goes on. Its also the biggest money maker ever found and its the governments making a lot of cash out of it (black gold). So its us ruining the enviroment is it! change has to start from the top, give us cars that dont let out toxic carbons at a resonable price and there a good start. Offer it and change habbits that way, if its not there it cant be used. I also mean not using battery powered cars as the carbon created in the making of the batteries and charging them is just as bad, Remember the battery is rendered useless in 3 years and is toxic to dump or recycle(Lead, Lithium). Its all to do with money and how goverments can justify replacing the money made from fuel with something else!
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sounds great!!!!!Does that mean no more parking in the royal square for some.The governor on a pedal bike mmmm should be interesting or is it the case of them and us as is so often the case in good old Jersey!!!
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#143 Beaumont
This post is an example of why I love this website so much. In between all the doom & gloom, we get the occassional comedy gold wisecrack like that.
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Hi all
Didn’t bother to read most comments cos it’s all the same old tosh. But here goes;
Jersey is too beautiful for a monorail (did someone really suggest that??);
School Run cars should be charged by a bloke / lady @ £5 at point of drop-off and again at pick-up;
And yes we do need a better bus system. Folks can you not understand that we need the will of the people to get a bus system??
We are all too lazy (me and others excluded) to walk / bus / cycle to work (or a combination of the above). Why should one or more of us make these choices to please those who prance around in the 4x4s etc as if the Island roads were built for them? I know, I came back from Dubai. they dig the stuff out of the ground over there and yes, they abuse it. We cannot afford to abuse it. we, at last look, did not have a ready supply of crude oil.
We, in the Blessed Island of Jersey, have no will, no ambition and no positive future. All we have is the same c-r-a-p future. no political group (official or otherwise) is willing to advocate a coherent policy for future change. We are faced with self interest at every juncture.
As a Jersey born boy with a young Jersey born daugther, I think I need to apologise to her and all of her generation for the mess that we have allowed happen. Sorry my love, but we enjoyed ourselves…… Have a nice life…..
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KB 155
Oh Dear! You do sound despondent, but you also sound as if you love your little girl very much. So I’ve written a little bed-time story especially for her….so cuddle up to her and read on.
Once upon a time the Oceans of the world were of the brightest blue, but now, in a part of the Pacific Ocean (about halfway between California and Hawaii), lies a garbage patch twice the size of Britain.
A floating continent of objects, wrappers, bottles and fragments of plastic in every colour.
The sea birds go there to fish, but there are no fish! Instead there are lots of tiny bits of “tasty looking” toxic plastic which they swallow then regurgitate down the necks of their fledglings and it kills them. And when the birds decompose, the plastic gets washed back into the ocean where it can kill again, and again.
Plastic causes the deaths of more than a million seabirds and more than 100,000 marine mammals such as whales, dolphins and seals every year.
But even if we decide not worry about the marine life, this “plastic-plankton” soup is entering the food chain and heading for our dinner table.
So my child, no matter what others do, embrace the three R’s – REDUCE, RE-USE and RECYCLE – even if it’s only by a little bit…because every little helps!
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