Town Park: Not by 2012, say ministers
Wednesday 30th September 2009, 2:57PM BST.
Deputy Geoff Southern in the car park which is to become the Town Park Picture: MATTHEW HOTTON (00774861)
THE prospect of the Town Park being built by 2012 has been virtually ruled out by the Council of Ministers.
Last week the States voted by 23–22 to support a proposal by Deputy Geoff Southern to spend £10 million creating a ‘green lung’ in the area around Gas Place car park, but yesterday ministers agreed that until a scheme was in place that provided alternative parking spaces to replace those currently available, no park would be built.
And Chief Minister Terry Le Sueur pointed to background material given to the States last week by Deputy Southern as supporting evidence of the necessity to provide car parking before any park is built.
Meanwhile, there will be no move from the Council of Ministers to reverse the result of the controversial vote in the States. The moving of a ring binder on the desk of Economic Development Minister Alan Maclean cast his vote. As a result, the Senator’s vote was recorded as being in favour of the amendment to the States business plan when he had actually pressed the contre button.
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We do not need to waste £10 Million on a town park. I support the Council of Ministers and only wish the Southern clan would think about saving some money for a change. I also find it astonishing that two members of the JDA are still allowed to be in the States, never mind vote on anything like this after the voting scandal earlier in the year.
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Can we all go back and re vote I would like to vote again if I say I made a mistake and I own a ringbinder can I do this.
Can all of us who own a ringbinder take back our votes and vote out this pathetic excuse for government.
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Yadda, Yadda, Yadda, the park will never be built, the minister in charge of procrastination has plenty of excuses left yet.
Anyway the kids are happy getting leathered in town and mugging people, they don’t need a park.
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Will they – won’t they – yer gorra larf aint yer!!
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No, the people of St Helier do not need an additional park. It will take far, far more than the accidental vote of a ring binder to change that.
St Helier is not exactly the largest of towns, and its existing green spaces are quite easy to reach – even on foot.
In any case, if this benighted Millennium Park is ever laid out it will probably go the way of Parade Gardens, which has been hijacked by winos, drug addicts and other ornaments of Jersey society.
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Jersey is blessed with beautiful parks and lovely beaches – most of which are ignored by those who demand a park on their doorstep or they won’t go.
Parking in town is essential for business and retail – even the tree-huggers must realise you can’t just remove it and hope for the best – and beefore you suggest ‘ring road parking’, I’m disabled and have trouble walking from Gas Place as it is.
Also – can we see a price for 5 years of the park’s operation, not just its building – TTS are already cutting down on green maintenance in other parks, what about policing and vandalism cleaning? Will the place be a wreck a year after it’s built?
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Rome was not built in a day!
But then again it did not take 12 years to build either….
Shame on the States for allowing it to carry on this long.
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attempted back peddling?
lets wait and see how long before we see the first tree.
could be a while.(i dont mind being proved wrong)
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The States vote for the money for the park.
But no worries, the Council of Ministers will simply ignore that and just not go ahead.
No need to court unpopularity by trying to reverse the decision, just ignore it.
And they wonder why we have the most cynical and apathetic electorate in the Western world!
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If a scheme has to be in place to replace lost parking before the Town Park can go ahead, then the same rule should apply to the North of Town Masterplan and the associated loss of Minden Street Car Park. See the Council of Ministers squirm their way around that one.
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Looks like the COM up to their old ways again trying to scupper what they were against….a perfect example as if one were needed of their blatant disregard for democracy…we now have I believe a case to approach the European Court of Human rights…based on the fact that we do not have representative government
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The 1992! Millenium park a seven year project that would be completed in time for the year 2000!
I was fooled,& waiting for that park have turned grey & into a fat slob in the process of waiting for its completion.
In the JEP,S latest article it is now 2011!
Now they say not by 2012! “Yeah but no”.
Whats the joke??? sorry am i missing something!
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Why not ask the people who want it the most if they would be willing to help build it as a community project. States dont have to spend as much money and then the ones who built it might have the inclination to help maintain it also before it does turn into a second parade.
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There is an abundance of open space within ‘spitting distance’ of anywhere in Jersey. Why on earth we’re even thinking of spending vast amounts of money on such projects during these times I really cannot understand. We will undoubtedly regret not having the £10M in the next few years, by which time we will desperately be trying to find money for the essentials such as Health & Education.
Get real and save, save, save for that option will soon not be available to us!
Damn that Ring Binder!
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Good. A waste of money anyway.
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@ truthseeker #11.
What utter rubbish!
“…Looks like the COM up to their old ways again trying to scupper what they were against..”
Taking a reasoned stance against the rushing to build something and causing difficulties elsewhere is hardly a bad thing. Would you have them leap headlong into every worthwhile project, regardless of the consequences of what might happen in doing so without planning first? Just because the light is green doesn’t mean you step onto the crossing without checking the traffic; even a 5year old knows this.
“…a perfect example as if one were needed of their blatant disregard for democracy…”
A blatant example that you don’t really understand what democracy means.
“…we now have I believe a case to approach the European Court of Human rights…”
You may also believe in fairies, Santa and God; this doesn’t make it any more true.
“…based on the fact that we do not have representative government…”
Accept we do. The vote for funding of this project was 22/23, that hardly sounds like one-sided government! Although to be frank I could be convinced that this isn’t representative, as I don’t know anybody who thinks it’s a good idea!
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Ahh My boys! For once the little Rock is planning ahead ‘A! Notice they haven’t said which millenium is being refered to.
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14: My view: yes you are quite right, there will always be a regret that money was not available to be spent twice.
With the passing of time I regret buying that guitar I twanged away happily on in my youth, and that suit I wore in that photograph from the 1970′s that made me feel the “Bee’s Knees” then, cost an “Arm and a leg”, and now makes me cringe when I look at it!
And that expensive Triumph convertible that seemed so smooth then and was a hit with the ladies, but which looks like a rather overdressed farm cart now.
All that money I should have saved to pay Gordon Brown’s expenses bill or some other worthy cause.
You will find when approaching the Pearly Gates that a life full of regrets is a life enjoyed to the full, and when you look to find the pot of gold your life of denial and abstenance will have undoubtedly saved for a rainy day, that won’t be there either!
And you certainly won’t be spending it!
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Anyway the real question is:
“Why does a Park cost £10 million?”
That is a ridiculous sum of money and I am quite sure £2-3 million would produce something quite acceptable,spent wisely!
No it is the Car Park their talking about!
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There is a large percentage of Jersey’s population living in St Helier.
Why not spend that 10 Million in an area that most of us poorer people live.
It makes me sick that those who live out of town and use St Helier as a place to work and party do not think the people who live here deserve a park.
Those who live here want a park those who live out of town and drive want parking. The problems of parking for residents is caused by people who live in the countryside and drive to town.
Take the bus and give us a park you countryside dwellers.
Spend no more taxpayers money taxpayers money on Yacht facilities and give us a park in town.
Yeah and lets have a tax for those who live out of town who drive into town to pay for it and any parking needed.
Its a green plan.
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@the future #20
“…The problems of parking for residents is caused by people who live in the countryside and drive to town…”
Is that why the car park is empty over night?… oh no it isn’t, is it?
It’s full of all those people who live in St Helier, and didn’t have the foresight to buy/rent a place with a parking space.
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#1 Fiona
There was not a “voting scandal” – that’s just how it was oh so carefully portrayed by the JEP
#5 Magnolia Man
clearly lives far away, surrounded by nice trees and cows munching grass
#6JAb Will the place be vandalised etc. depends entirely how carefully the surrounding community is involved with the creation of the Park If they feel that it is “their ” park they will be more likely to use it and care about it.
#7#8#9
Agree – why so long. The way we should look at this is that the area has been deprived of the Park for that many years
#20 “Those who live here want a park those who live out of town and drive want parking.” EXACTLY
#21 yes residents want parking too, but the fact is that a lot of the parking space in town is for commuting. If commuting was reduced 15% which is the new target, and can easily be achieved, then having the space for a Town park is a piece of cake.
Go for it!
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Why waste ten million on another town park when very few use the existing ones. Would it not be too obvious to encourage people to use the empty beaches which are already there and are virtually self maintaining. Would it not be better to create a national park by purchasing the Plemont site for five million and spend the remaining five million on a new senile decay unit at Clinique Pinel St Saviour. Two States’ members could then have their names in stone rather than one. Personally, rather than insulting the present owner, I would ask the gentleman if he would like to donate the site as a national park in his name. Now that would be too easy for some that sit in our States because they cannot achieve anything in real life.
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J Lamborrari
Take a drive in a public car park at 2 am on a Tue its empty on Sat or Sun night sure its much fuller.
Town parking should be reserved for residents first. Commuters get second choice.
Imagine if town dwellers had priority to park in the country over country dwellers.
Get on a bike share a car or walk and give us a park you selfish town dwellers.
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@the future #24
Gas Place car park is not empty any night of the week; some others may be, but not Gas Place. And the reason is very simple; the area around Gas Place has very high population density. The people living in the are will not want to walk across town to park their cars, that’s human nature for better or worse we’re lazy!
If people want a park, then alternative parking needs to be made available, and not just a numbers game where you create 1,000 spaces the other end of town.
I believe it could be down, relatively cheaply and quickly with much improved access to and from town for motorist and pedestrian both. I believe the parking ‘lost’ to a town park on this site could be replaced(by more than 100%) within 50m of the park site, without the need to build underground parking below the Gas Place park(which would surely require a treeless park?) and that some decent accommodation could be provided at the same time without encroaching on the park site in the way the most recent plan has suggested…
…but it won’t happen, as the States don’t have the vision needed.
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@ Daniel Wimberley #22
How long will the 15% target take to reach? once reached are you saying that you’re not going to allow for any growth?
Once the target is reached you’ll still need to provide parking for the remaining 85% of about 600 spaces. Where do you propose doing this in the vicinity of Gas Place?
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We could always park in St. Marys and Wimberley can ferry us to town.
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All i can say is! will the park be open for the evenings? reason i say this is most of the hidden parks in Jersey are closed at night, reason i say “hidden” is because of them being walled off or surrounded by trees and bushes so you can’t see in them, unlike peoples park. Does this mean there will have to be levels of security to make sure vandals dont spoil the ten million pound waste of time. Remember This park will have a yearly cost too, Jersey prices will prob be around £200.000 a year if not more for security, gardeners, irrigation people, and whatever it will cost for the police to remove the nightly gathering groups of loud drunk teenagers from the area because there fighting and keeping the neighbours up. We have quite a few parks around the town area the biggest are Howard Davis park and Millbrook park. I personally don’t know anyone that use these. So ten million pounds is a joke and i think there is something fishy about the whole thing, remember Harcourt and the waterfront, the Aqua splash, cinema, KFC, Pizza hut. People over here need the states to give them something to do for leisure not a mirrage of something that looks like there is something to do. Its a shame as ten million plus pounds could be spent on something a little more interesting or something that benefits us all rather than a few. Trust me go to peoples park in summer when there is no fairs on and there is no one there apart from drunks gathering at night, I used to live next to peoples park, all you got was souting, screaming, bottles smashing, drug needles, and dog dirt. and then the pubs closed! if it happends i will bet money people will say after a year they wished it had been built somewhere else.
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@ james e #28
Regarding your question about walled in and closed parks: The two you mention Coronation/H. Davis, probably the two nicest parks as it happens, were gifts to the Island from Messers Boots and Davis. I don’t know whether they close because of some covenant; I know that certain parks in the UK close one day a year so that they remain private property, as allowing public access everyday would eventually give the public grounds to claim a right of way I believe.
People’s Park is open, but I think I’m right in saying this was a gift too, it certainly has covenants in place.
Not sure, but I think most parks were gifts; maybe it’s telling that public money has never been used to fund such things before?
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