Draw a line in the sand!
Saturday 3rd October 2009, 3:00PM BST.
Your Island needs you says, National Trust for Jersey president Mike Stentiford
A FINAL rallying call has been issued for every Jersey resident to join together in St Ouen’s Bay tomorrow for the unprecedented A Line in the Sand coastline demonstration.
By tomorrow afternoon, the long-awaited rally will be over and for the first time in living memory Islanders will have publicly demonstrated how much we care about our increasingly under-threat countryside.
If the event flops, the National Trust for Jersey fears that the consequences for the future of the coastline could be disastrous.
But if thousands pour onto the beach, the organisation says that it will send out the strongest message yet that it is time to stop exploiting Jersey’s precious coast.
Islanders are asked to gather at Le Braye at 1 pm, before an aerial picture of the line is taken at 2 pm.
An organised bike ride will leave from the start of the Railway Walk at St Aubin at noon. Buses will leave from Stand E at Liberation Station at 11.45 am, noon and 12.15 pm. They will return to St Helier at 3 pm.
Read the full story in the Jersey Evening Post. Click here for subscription details. Individual editions are also available online.
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I think everybody who attends should put their name to a list, and forward it to planning.
Then Planning can refuse any application for anybody on the list who ever want to build on a green zone in the future, and perhaps more significantly, ignore any complaint from these people should they ever object to increased building density in ‘their backyard’
For those who are both on the list and living on a property that far exceeds their needs, planning could see this as acceptance that taking the west wing of their mansion to be converted to social housing would be okay.
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This demonstration will be a clear sign that the people in the west of the island want to save it.
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Anyone any the wiser as to the incinerator on the coastline at Havre-des-Pas?
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Does anyone really think that the government of Jersey gives a stuff about what anyone thinks. by all means attend the rally, I’ll be in the pub not wasting my time.
Good luck to all of you dreamers, wake up amd smell the coffee, it’s about economics which you all benefit from, I don’t hear you saying we’ll do without finance.
Cake and eat it – that’ll be the locals.
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A very valid point, # 1
I totally agree !
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1. For goodness sake..what is going on in your head………..?
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So Ok its now ok to leave a concrete mess on over coastline?
Return it to nature(?) When was the site ever ‘Nature’(?) Who can remember this and where is any evidence(?)
If the site was developed with the countryside in mind you could have a brilliant area(!)
Eco friendly(full)chalets (2/3 bedrooms) which are (not residential!!!) available for rent all year round. Create an eco friemdly area(!!)
Wake up Jersey(!!)
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J Lamborrari,
Good points.
Some years ago a local action group in the Eltham/Welling area of south east London campaigned vigorously to save part of an “ancient wood” from having a road – which would have taken a big load off the M25 – run through it in a cutting.
Guess where most of the protesters lived?
In houses built on estates previously cut into the “ancient woodland”!
Just looked at the Google view of where Mike Stentiford lives. Must have been open countryside not that far back in time!
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Good call Lambo.
I propose that the National Trust reliquish the land that they’ve amassed to Jersey Heritage, ensuring that it’s held by and for the benefit of the local population, not by a squad of patronising English sheep lovers.
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This was an extraordinary show of an island community voting with its feet. The line of well over the reported estimate of 7,000 stretched as far as the eye could see and beyond. We stood shoulder to shoulder in an extraordinary swathe of islanders, united in a resolve to protest about the erosion of our coastline and send a clear message to those planners in South Hill, whom have ignored the law, as if they are above it.
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It was a huge success, flying in the face of those whom wanted to decry it even before it happened. Get a life Mr Lamborrari. Hunch over your internet connection and see what further negativity you can supply when over 7,000 islanders voted with their feet.
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Good comment by Mr Lamborrari at number 1.
Taking the names of people at a public demonstration and passing the list to the authorities.
Didn’t this happen in a former state known as Nazi germany, which was run by a man with a strange walk and a funny little moustache?
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This is populist woolly tosh! Lets save the birdies ! etc.etc
In a real world pragmatic decisions must be made and political representatives are the best for this because they are accountable.
All this becomes is
‘What do we want!’ NO CHANGE
‘When do we want it ?’ NOW
repeat until you hyperventilate or need to drive to Big Verns for a late breakfast.
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Realist,
I think you have missed Lamborrari’s point which is surely about the hypocrisy and “I’m all right but why should you be” attitude that prevails in Jersey.
Uncle Quentin, for years the Met Police have photographed or videoed as many London demonstrators as possible.
Not really necessary in Jersey as from October to April most people know each other by sight!
I am certainly against the over development of Jersey and I expect that the same goes for J Lamborrari. Can you let us know please J.L.?
If you are in favour of development,J.L., then it is only right that your name should go on a list of those barred from attending lines in the sand!
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Dear Fat Bob,,,, enjoy the pub as a huge tsunami washes you off the face of the planet. The more people that are seen to care for the enviornment will start a mass shift in the way we think… leading to a solution.
Welldone to all the cyclist that rode to the line in the sand too.. bravo keep the faith
Jersey bob
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Low Cement #13 – “political representatives are the best for this because they are accountable”
Really, to who?
Please provide just a small handful of examples where a politician has been held directly responsible for a bad policy decision.
My experience suggests that they are provided with teflon coats once elected – particularly once they join ‘The Club’!
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No. 11 The blokes at Southhill are above it, they are perched high above the rest by Fort Regent!
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#7. Richard – When was the site ever ‘Nature’(?) – Oh yes of course Richard I now recall from my Religious Education lessons in school how on Day two of creation God made the land, sea, stars and was about to create an area of natural beauty at somewhere called Plemont only to find someone had beaten him to it and there was already the holiday camp we are currently left with. Yesterday hopefully demonstrated to the politicians in the island how much the residents want to protect their environment, and whilst people are destined to live in built homes rather than bivouacs, those who turned up clearly showed how they still care for the protection of the spectacular Jersey coastline, which is one of the key reasons why our tourist count has not already hit zero.
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It was raelly good I Thoroughly enjoyed it. The support we got was really good Ihoep it will help the Jersey National Trust
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I went down there, well i went for breakfast. Then i went home and watched TV, i feel i achieved more watching kunu-fu panda than this line ever will.
When will the eco-bunnies of this island learn. Protests, leaflets and strong letters to the JEP are not going to make an impact, no one cares!
I’m all for a bit of save the planet, but if something is needed like a lovely big surf complex then its going to get built, and for the thousands more that will use it compared to the “line” its going to be worth it.
Were told to enjoy the country side, but short of floating above containing all waste gas’s and crisp packets we can’t use it. At what point is Jersey going to except not everything its going to be perfect! We want people, but no houses, we want finance and income, but no waterfront. We want country side but wont help the famers. Buy local but use argos. This is an argument that will never end with neither side being happy.
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Pasta Joke #16 Politicians are ultimately accountable at the ballot box, a strung out group of econimbys has no accountability at all just a warm glow of mis-placed selfsatisfaction.
I hope that answers your question.
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Sorry Pasta Joke # 16 the most recent accountability ‘victim’ Guy de Faye .
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@ truthseeker #6.
Which bit of my post wasn’t clear enough for you?
@ Realist #11.
You assume I have no life, you assume I wasn’t in that line(perhaps posting from my iPhone via a mobile phone mast, made possible by development).
Which bit of my suggestion is negative? The bit where those people who attended ‘suffer’ from planning restriction where they live?
7,000 people attended, sounds like a little over 80,000 (more than 10:1) didn’t attend; I assume this vote will be recognised in your version of democracy as a decisive win for development. Well thanks a lot! I didn’t ask for this vote to take place, but now it has Mike Stentiford seems to have sealed the coasts fate to developers; at least you can’t complain it wasn’t fair and democratic.
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@ R B Bougourd #14
“…I am certainly against the over development of Jersey and I expect that the same goes for J Lamborrari. Can you let us know please J.L.?…”
Yes I am against over development(I’m also against even small-scale bad development), and against hypocrisy as you rightly recognised too.
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#23, thankfully lack of attendance can NEVER be seen as supporting further development! There will be those that simply couldn’t get there, those that were ill, those that had plans made long before this idea even arose…
These ideas are great for publicity and a physical show, but plenty more will have supported the idea!
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Leah is right, if 7,000 people are prepared to come out and stand on a beach there will be plenty more who could not make it or who feel less strongly about the issue but are still worried about the future direction the island is taking with regards to development.
If Chief Minister Senator Terry le Sueur has any sense he will asking a few hard questions about which direction Senator Cohen is taking the Planning Dept in before the rot affects his whole administration.
Governments live on public confidence and it seems that it is rapidly draining away.
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Lamborrari, i assume your pen name is a clever almagomation of ‘lamborghini’ and ‘ferrari’. I sometimes see such cars smooching ostentaciously around the island. Rather like these ‘grand design’ millionaire homes that seem to pop up in areas of once natural beauty, i regard them as a vulgar eyesore, as do many other islanders. Its not about depriving people of a home, simply a case of saying that some spots should be preserved for the good of the majority rather than spoiled for the private folly of the rich.
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@ Leah Holmes #25.
Obviously (I hope I’m not being too generous there!) my post was written with some sarcasm, and I don’t really believe that 80,000 used their democratic right not to attend on Sunday with the intention of casting any kind of default pro-devolvement vote; but I know that some will use the 7,000 people who did turn up as *proof* of overwhelming support for their cause, when of course that can’t be the case.
“…These ideas are great for publicity and a physical show, but plenty more will have supported the idea!…”
And plenty of people who didn’t turn up did so because they don’t support the campaign.
Sunday was about, as you rightly point out, publicity; about the he who shouts loudest being heard. I just think that, and this goes for most of these rabble-rousing events, a little more thought needs to be put to it before many people lend their voices without any real understanding of all the issues.
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what a waste of time, remember the protest over Queens Valley what good did that achieve, it was still flooded.
this island needs more homes to house all the value for money english civil servants it keeps employing to turn us in to a UK suburb.
Jersey R.I.P.
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It is good to see that democracy is alive and unwell.
I say “unwell” because, as Mr 11.87 has quite rightly pointed out, people power seems to mean very little to the respective one man power houses known as ministers.
Queens Valley, yes, 11,000 ignored and laws made up as they went along. GST, yes, 20,000 ignored amidst spurious claims that some of the petitioners were not qualified to write their own names.
Now we have 6,000 more. A nice day out, yes. Will anyone listen? No.
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The solution here isn’t complex, but the problem is that most people oppose development both on the coast and in their back yard. I suspect there was a huge overlap between the 7,000 on the beach and those who opposed the waterfront plans.
What Jersey should do is simple: ban any new building work outside of St Helier (other than minor extensions, rebuilding on existing footprints etc). Focus on making St Helier a vibrant, busy town and leave the countryside unspoiled. Encourage those who work in St Helier to live in St Helier, thus reducing congestion. Be brave, build high.
But have an absolute ban on fields being turned into boxy estates and every house with a decent garden being sold as a development opportunity.
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Low cement. I accept that there is an element of accountability at the ballot box but it can take years for someone to be held to account in that way.
What I mean is immediate accountablity. Example in point: who was held responsible for the exchange rate fiasco regarding the incinerator? All I saw was buck passing, finger pointing and no politician being held to account. The matter was closed.
Who do we vote out for that then?
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Clown Advocate
Some people have forgotten the definition of democracy. Democracy is not every man on the street voting in their own policies and laws – that is crazy. Democracy is when you vote in members or parties to pass laws and policies in line with your political view.
Just because 11,000 people didn’t want Queens Valley not to be filled doesn’t mean the other 79,000 at the time didn’t. In fact it turned out that not filling the Valley would have been a bad idea as without it life would have been a lot harder during the drought summers that followed costing the tax payer a fortune every time the desalination plant was fired up or you had to purchase bottled water. This along with other petitions like anti GST (which was totally subjective as it’s like asking turkeys whether or not to vote for Christmas) are based on NIMBY attitudes which would ruin this place a lot faster than the States Chamber.
You just have to look at California to see how ‘direct democracy’ has failed. California (the worlds 5th largest economy) has just made emergency cuts of £8bn this year alone, leads in American unemployment stats and 25% mortgage holders are in negative equity due to the fact of mass exodus from a State which has always seen a growth in population. Why has this happened? Because year on year people forced through spending commitments (like the town park here) but denied the tax revenue to support them (like GST here). The result is a State on its knees because the man on the street wanted more say. Even Churchill said “The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter” and he was right!
Same goes for line in the sand (which I attended BTW). Whilst the principle is right a blanket ban is not always the best decision as developments need to be assessed on exclusive merits. To suggest the majority agree with line in the sand is presumptuous and likely wrong if you follow your logic that democracy is unwell because only 8% of the population turned up.
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Joker…you really are full of it………..
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Joker should stand for the states. He could go a long way, it seems. I am not sure that he would get my vote though
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How can a valid petition like the GST one not be valid because it is “subjective”? What an odd remark from the aptly named Joker
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Joker, you have a wonderfully simplistic view of democracy. It is not about voting people in. It is about people power. The fact that Queen’s valley was flooded against a majority objection did not make it right.
And no-one wanted GST but it still came in. That is not democracy. It is dictatorship.
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simean
nobody “wanted” GST to come in. Fortunately, those who preferred the Island’s finances to be sustainable won the argument. The fact that 23,000 signed a petition saying “We want high standards of public care but can someone else pay for it because we won’t” is neither democratic nor surprising.
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I don’t recall the GST petition carrying any rider, comment or qualification regarding public services.
Obviously the one sighted by Mad Foetus was not the same petition as was signed by everyone else.
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Mad Foetus- the road to a facist state is paved with good intentions, didn’t you know?
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Oh, I see, Mad Foetus. We, as the people of this island do not know what we want. We need the extremely clever Terry Le Sueuer and his merry men to tell us.
I am afraid I have misunderstood matters. I thought that legitimate government was supposed to represent the will of the populace. How wrong I was!
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@ Mr Bridger #36
“…How can a valid petition like the GST one not be valid because it is “subjective”?…”
A sitting States member approached me in King Street where he had his tables set out and he and others were asking people to sign his petition. I didn’t sign because I happened to be aware of the issue and did not to agree with what the petition was asking; however other people around me when asked to sign, asked what the issue was. Based on what they were told by the volunteers (not, I should point out the States Member that approached me) they chose to sign, but I what I heard the volunteers explain was not true.
The validity of these petitions is questionable because of the subjective nature of both the person signing and the subjective presentation of the person asking them to sign.
Another example; A shop in the market had a ‘Town Park Petition’ some years ago, I was asked if I wanted to sign. The Explanation on this petition read something like:
“The States are due to debate whether or not to build a Town Park – please sign below to show your support”
I believe in democracy so I signed in support of this debate, it seemed a little odd that I was asked to support a debate that was already scheduled, but as I really didn’t want a park I thought the debate was needed and didn’t want it to be cancelled through any lack of support for the debate; without the debate they might just build the damn thing!
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Just a reminder for all you eco-nimby protesters that its your toilet products that are ending up on your sand today (Wednesday)because TTS can’t process it because of ANY rain whatsoever !
Just think of the link DEVELOPMENT-COASTLINE-YOU!!
Before you let your righteous egos run away with your self-image.
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6,500 people must mean hearly 3,000 cars, vans, busses etc all polluting the atmoshere, killing the birds and small creatures that Mike Stentiford is trying to save!
Strange way to go about it.
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The pollution and damage would almost be as bad as the rally
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Simean redspot
Actually I’m just aware of the consequences of our actions. If I have a simple view on democracy yours is even simpler if you think that motions should be passed because 40,001 voted for and 39,999 against – I’m afraid it’s not that simple at all. People power is dangerous as my example of California tried to illustrate. The reason being people in the street often make decisions on emotion and hearsay and do not have the time to take in all the facts. Queens Valley was an emotional protest based on the detriment to the eco system in the Valley which was obviously devastating. What the people didn’t realise at the time as that Jersey would have suffered far worse droughts without it and would be complaining that the States had not done enough to prevent it. And anyway where is your proof that the majority even cared never mind were against it?
Clown Advocate
So you reckon what you says goes? What if I disagree with you? Do you propose we hold a referendum every time there’s a decision to be made? Let’s do that and we’ll be in a worse state than California within 12 months I guarantee you.
Mr Bridger
See my comment about turkeys voting for Christmas. People are never going to vote for more tax are they despite it being the prudent and sensible measure to secure funding for the hospital and education for years to come. If there was a another viable solution put around that would cover the deficit the states are reporting then fine but there wasn’t was there. Not to mention what J Lamborrari has pointed out.
Anyone who thinks that they personally should have the right to pass anything I suggest you do it by the proper manner and vote accordingly or stand yourself. Anything else will lead to anarchy… may be you should vote for that too.
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Truthseeker
How can I be full of myself? Unlike you, and some others, I’m not the one who thinks everything that I say should go.
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Truthseeker
Sorry – didn’t read your post correctly the first time. Explain why you think I’m “full of it”… You think I made up that stuff about California?
It’s all very well letting the public decide they don’t want GST but what then? Sack nurses and teachers to compensate – you going to vote for that as well? Is the public sector worker who voted against GST and has now been made redundant as a result going to want to change their mind and demand we vote again and again and again until redundant workers get their jobs back? If you can’t see how ridiculous a system like that would be it just proves my point that ‘direct democracy’ is full of it.
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mad foetus “Fortunately, those who preferred the Island’s finances to be sustainable won the argument.”
I think you mean the rich and big business preferred the poorer to pay as much as possible. GST was the government’s get out of jail free card as far as I am concerned. Now they need never worry whether the books balance or not, as it is but a stroke of the pen to up GST to 20% if so needed. How this will aid sustainability is beyond me but I don’t work in finance do I?
joker “If there was another viable solution put around that would cover the deficit the states are reporting then fine but there wasn’t was there.”
There are always alternatives. They could have taxed those with the most a bit more, and taken the cap off of social security to raise more money however it was deemed better to bring in a tax that hits the elderly, disabled and most disadvantaged in out society disproportionally to the most well off. Do you think this is fair and just?
As far as I am concerned anyone who is fiscally literate wouldn’t allow escalating spending on often useless items like steam clocks, needles and a gold painted ball (to show if the tide is in or out in the town harbour, I believe this has failed to work for many years now), to push spending beyond sane levels. There is also the top heavy states departments to consider as well. Share transfer is another easy and fair method to raise revenue.
joker “What the people didn’t realise at the time as that Jersey would have suffered far worse droughts without it and would be complaining that the States had not done enough to prevent it.”
You can’t prevent a drought by flooding a valley.
As per Queens valley what was done there was totally out of order as far as I am concerned. National Trust land is given in perpetuity not be developed by the states as they see fit. This valley was ruined to store water because Jersey’s population was exploding due mainly to immigration to fuel the financial bubble over here.
Also laws had to be changed to enable it to be flooded. How are property owners to defend themselves against the state if the state can change the laws at will?
As per anarchy it seems to me this tends to put in an appearance when the crumbs from the upper socio-economic strata’s table are insufficient for the needs of the majority.
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Joker said:
“Clown Advocate
So you reckon what you says goes? What if I disagree with you?”
It seems from his verbose outpourings that it is in fact Joker who {and I quote} “reckons what he says goes”.
Let’s all stop taking ourselves too seriously, please.
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Joker, where is your proof for the various statements that you have made on this forum?
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Joker, your attacks [sometimes quite personal] on the other contributors to this site tends to lessen the impact of anything you say. In short, it is hard to take your comments seriously in such a context
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Well done to everyone who turned out. Please don’t let the negative comments of some on this forum put you off exercising what is the purest form of democracy of all.
Queens Valley? Shame. GST? Shame. Let us hope that the powers that be will now listen and stop wondering why the voting turn out is so poor.
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GST is a double ended sword that may prove the undoing of the States and the island in the end.
I am sure that they will be back to the GST pot as deficits escalate and they fail to control spending.
GST will go up to 6 and then 9 percent, inflation will escalate and the real economy will go in to decline.
One of the things about the island’s economy is that it is tiny with very little control over the real economic levers. Arguably the UK Treasury and the Bank of England matter far more than the Jersey Treasury Minister as they control the financial ‘weather’ by setting interest rates etc.
The Jersey political system did not work that well in the latter part of the 20th, early 21st century when all they had to do was stand by and hand out the lolly that rolled in.
Let us see how they manage when tough decisions and dare we say it real cuts have to be made.
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@ Adrian #49
“…There are always alternatives. They could have taxed those with the most a bit more…”
I’ve never understood this often used argument, especially when it’s put forward as being fairer and more just; Why should those who, generally, cost the public purse the least, be expected to put in disproportionally more? I don’t doubt it’s the option with the fewest direct ‘casualties’, but is it really fair?
I agree that cutting spending is key to sorting our public finances.
“…You can’t prevent a drought by flooding a valley…”
Obviously not, but it does allow you to prepare for and survive it.
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Wow, this Joker person is a prolific writer and seems to think along the lines of many of our establishment politicians. He certainly doesn’t like opposition!
Will you be standing for Chief Minister?
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Sensible one & Stanley Unwin
Perhaps your right – my tone may be too serious and personal but I’m sick of people moaning when the fact is they have it very good compared to the rest of the world. Constantly moaning about the everything and stating they can do better but they do not wish to follow a democratic process of standing for government. It’s all too easy to moan – why not do something about it? And joining your mates for a day out on the beach is easy, standing for government or making a real effort to protest isn’t. I’m not saying what I says goes because I’m not trying to overhaul the current system of democracy we have, the status quo is fine with me.
Simean blue spot
California – Guardian article.
Queens Valley – A water resources overview report provided by the British Geological Survey in 2000 Robins. An extract states “Jersey experienced no difficulty with public water supply shortfall in 1996 (unlike Guernsey), although Jersey suffered in the 1980 to 1992 ‘drought’ before the Queen’s Valley project came on line”. There are other sources too if you care to look.
Adrian
“You can’t prevent a drought by flooding a valley.”
Surely that’s the whole point of a reservoir?! Don’t take my word for it, I think the BGS know a little more about the subject than both you or I. As for GST the easy statement is to say “tax the rich”. That is a far too simplistic statement to make to hold water (excuse the pun). May be if you come up with a more specific solution other than “tax the rich” then I might just agree with you.
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Peter Dainty
Just wanted to clarify that I don’t think the system is perfect but it’s better than most. And no I would never stand for Chief Minister or the even a States member as it’s not worth the hassle! You try to do what is best for the Island as a whole and all you get is flack. You take the popularist votes and then find the Island in a fiscal nightmare. Can’t win either way.
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Joker, very seriously, you could go for the states because you clearly have a social conscience. Notwithstanding your disillusionment, you might make a difference.
You do not know which of the other commentators here might have stood in the past or been involved with government in one form or another. It is obviously not all misinformed hot air.
Pursuing the populist side of things would be the best way forward in terms of true representaion. The trouble with a “we know best” approach [even if you do know best] is that it tends to breed resentment and perceived disenfranchisement. It is also a step towards a dictatorship.
People here are probably venting their anger [or moaning] because the states members, by and large, have been shown time and time again not to listen to the electors. It is as simple as that.
If you are inclined to do so, I would urge you to throw your hat into the ring next time round and I would truly wish you the best of luck.
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Joker – post 57: you don’t seriously read the Guardian do you? Daily Mail, surely
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The real problem with Island politics at the moment is exactly the same as the problem in the UK, and the rest of the world:
We have trained and indeed well intentioned people in public office and capable people in principal positions, but we have no one with any vision of what the Island (UK:the country.Internationally:the world)should look like in 20 years from now?
Without a vision of the future it is impossible to draw up any plans that make any sense!
As it takes several years to execute a large public capital project,from inception, through execution and on to actual performance assessment, the problems it was designed to address when originally approved as a project are by no means guaranteed to be the problems when the thing ultimately becomes an operating reality!
No career politician wants to be the one responsible for supporting a “Vision” that ultimately turns out to be a complete “White Elephant” on completion!
(e.g.locally: The Steam Clock, Fort Regent. U.K.:The Millenium Dome,The Hovercraft.Internationally: The Hadron Collider?)
Far safer therefore to be “A safe pair of hands”?
Far safer therefore to keep throwing resources at tried and tested areas of the infrastructure and/or the economy?
No,we are now at that point locally, nationally and internationally where there is a need for that JFK moment where a true leader with vision needs to set some seemingly impossible “Shoot the Moon” targets, in order to focus the increasingly capable energies of growing Island, national and world populations on constructive activity, before those energies turn inwards and become destructive.
To a certain extent these targets are not that difficult to set in a world where growing populations are going to result in essential resource shortages, and it does not really matter whether targets and deadlines set are achievable or not immediately, but they do need to have a vision that is understood by the majority, and be sufficiently resourced to encourage actual and sustained action!
Doing nothing is not an option, and as proved by JFK, even if the target is the Moon and you actually surprise yourselves and achieve it only to wonder “What for?”, on the way you may just achieve and/or identify other more productive objectives.
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Clown Advocate
Like I said I’m happy with the status quo so there’s no need for me to throw my hat in the ring.
Agree with your 3rd and 4th paragraphs. I understand why people see the States as detached from the people but ironically that is sort of needed to be able to take the tough decision for the long term than take the easy one for the short term. GST being an example. So whilst there’s faults with the current system I’d rather the democratically elected few with access to all the information who do this job for a living make the decisions then the masses who have an opinion based on part time politics, piecemeal information and emotion. And before someone bites my head off for selling the people of Jersey short (including myself) on the matter that’s why I used the Californian scenario who’s people are no doubt as equally astute as we are. The people of California were very content with their quality of life and of their choices but in the end their decisions to spend more on education, health and transport whilst reducing taxes wasn’t sustainable.
This doesn’t mean I have right wing or communist tendencies, it means I believe that you vote a small group of people in to make the decisions for you and if you think they’ve betrayed your mantra then vote them out again – I’m not sure why you think I’m delusional for wanting that? Line in the Sand proved some people are against blanket development and people should protest but don’t moan if it doesn’t change anything. It’s not a coincidence that roughly the same proportion of the population who turn up to Line in the Sand and sign petitions coincide with the low proportion who actually vote unfortunately revealing that most people don’t care. There’s no point stamping your feet because you didn’t get your way last Sunday, that’s not the system, the system is to not elect Cohen next time he stands.
Batman
Yes. And I wouldn’t even wipe my backside with the Daily Mail
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joker the problem with Jersey is that it’s getting worse. I don’t know about you but I expected things to get better with time, not go downhill like they are now. Yes you are correct compared to most of the rest of the planet we are in a good position but this is only relative isn’t it?
How much do things have to deterioate before people come to their senses and demand action? Shore line development is yet another symptom of the Jersey illness of greed and profit now. It appears that the bigger your wallet the less problems you have getting your way. This is wrong. No one should get preferential treatment because of the amount of money they have.
As per Queen’s Valley it was wrong to flood it period. It was National Trust Land which was meant to be sacrosanct.
Clown Advocate maybe people are venting their anger because they preceive that the government always sides with big business and the rich over here, regardless of what is morally, right or just?
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Adrian,
I protested against Queens Valley being flooded. I was wrong: the reservoir is an immense benefit to the Island, nice to walk around and saves burning fossil fuels to fire the desalination plant.
The idea that government always sides with big business and the rich is simply not true. Just because you repeat it ad infinitum does not make it true.
GST, for example, is about the fairest and most sensible tax you can devise. That is why every other jurisdiction in the world (except Guernsey, who are desperately playing catch-up) has a variation of GST. Or does every other jurisdiction in the world “always side with big business and the rich”?
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Adrian,
I guess it depends on your definition of getting worse. I’m not convinced they are, especially if you consider the underlying fact that people in Jersey are living longer, enjoy are better lifestyle in terms of options available to them and people still want to come to live in Jersey, personally I also prefer the toilette to be plumbed in the house
. Nostalgia is very clever at brushing the past with a feeling of utopia when in fact you were worse off in many ways. I think it would be fairer to say that important things such as health care and life options have improved in general, but if you preferred the simple life and a more quaint Jersey, I agree today would go against that grain.
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joker, you may indeed buy the guardian but i doubt you actually read it. In fact the california article was in the observer but never mind. the point is NOWHERE does it back up your argument that California’s problems are causd by overspending on public services or too much democracy. in fact, on the contrary the article finishes by stating that they want to make the state even more democratic!
you frequently appear to come to a conclusion and then try to make the facts fit. Why not try taking the opposite approach?
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