Teachers vote for dispute over pay
Wednesday 7th October 2009, 2:59PM BST.
Jersey Teachers Panel chairman Pip Ward
THE possibility of teachers manning picket lines outside schools has moved a step closer.
An estimated 25 per cent of Island teachers attended a meeting last night called by the Jersey Teachers Panel to discuss the States pay freeze and the loss of rights to negotiate over pay and conditions.
They voted unanimously to take their fight for a better deal to the next level. The panel, which represents all three teaching unions, will now instruct the unions’ national executives to declare a dispute with the States Employment Board, which negotiates on pay for the States.
A statement released by the panel this morning said: ‘It was clear that Jersey teachers were upset with what has become a norm – the States telling Jersey teachers that they are not valued. Teachers are saying that “enough is enough” and that the States must start to listen and openly and fairly negotiate.’
Read the full story in the Jersey Evening Post. Click here for subscription details. Individual editions are also available online.
The Queen's Diamond Jubilee
JEP Jubilee Editions
Saturday 2 June: Guide to Celebrations
Wednesday 6 June: Souvenir of Events
View The Queen in Jersey supplement
Travel
To, from and around the Island
Airport Arrivals/Departures
Harbours Arrivals/Departures
Bus Information/Timetables
This is Jersey
Jersey Evening Post
Useful links
Good on the teachers for doing this, they are totally underappreciated for the hours they put in during term time as well as work during the school holidays when they have prep to do, as well as other courses to attend, not to mention the abuse or pressure they have to endure on a regular basis from children and parents alike. For our politicians to choose to retain lunches and free parking for themselves is incredibly hypocritical when they are cutting back spending across all services in the island. Perhaps the funds raised from charging in the States canteen and for States parking could go some way to improving the terms and conditions of the teachers across the island.
Report abuse
We’ve all taken a hit because of the recession. You teachers should all grow up!
Report abuse
If, as we have been told, a teacher is on a salary of circa £35k and they will go to dispute for a cost of living increase, then what does that tell the States about all the workers who earn less then this amount-watch this space!!!!!
Report abuse
I think the timing is all wrong for any industrial action. The teachers won’t get much sympathy from many islanders as at least they have pretty secure employment. Striking at a time like this is irresponsible and possibly selfish.
It would be better to wait intil the economy picks up before people expect to get pay increases. In the meantime teachers should learn to tighten their belts like everyone else.
Teachers today are valued, but if the industrial action takes place they will be seen to be greedy.
Report abuse
They start on £30k. Which is much higher than most starting wages. They are automatically at 40k after 9 years. Then another £1k a year for five years. If they have more responsibility, e.g. head of a department, they can get up to an extra £15k or so. Also available are performance pay awards. So the majority are pretty comfortable and some will be on £60k plus.
Frankly, in these times, when everyone is short of cash and private sector employees are losing their jobs, taking pay cuts, working reduced hours etc. (with no final salary pensions!), the teachers should take a step back and realise they have it pretty cushty (not to mention the six weeks holiday!).
Report abuse
Finchos
I think you’ll find the States voted to end free lunches and the £10k that will save the tax payer is insignificant to the cost year on year of a pay rise when income tax receipts look set to fall because of recession. No teacher is on the breadline, in fact a few I know are doing well for themselves (probably why only 25% of the Island’s teachers turned up). We’d all like to be paid more, just like we’d all like to be pay less tax but surely it’s more important to make sure the books balance for the greater good of the Island as a whole first. One year isn’t going to kill them.
Report abuse
The RPI is the main measure of inflation in Jersey and is commonly used in private contracts for the uprating of maintenance payments and housing rents. It is also used in wage negotiations. The index showed a decrease in the last year of 0.4%, so surely, if the teachers wish their salary to be in line with ‘cost of living’, it should fall by 0.4%? Or do they use the index which is most advantageous each time they enter negotiations?
Report abuse
I think you will find as teachers we have “grown up” and our in fact educating the youth of Jersey. As for selfish and irresponsible teachers on the Island of Jersey have been subject to unfair treatment for the past number of years. The threat of industrial action is about so much more than a 2% pay rise, it is due to the fact that the states seems to think they can ignore not just teachers contracts but all public servants. I think if the states of jersey continues to behave in this manner, the islanders of jersey will indeed have sympathy for public sector workers as we are the people who make this island tick!!
Report abuse
5 – Agree almost entirely with your final paragraph.
Selfish & greedy.
Oh dear, some teachers are likely to pay more tax due to the 20% means 20%. So are a lot of other people but they have accepted this state of affairs for the good of the Island.
Report abuse
Post 5 I am unsure as to where you have your information, but as a teacher your pay detail and my pay packet are very much out of step. Teachers dont have “all that holiday”, we work a stupid number of hours a day and then have to be in for many of those days off each year.
I dont agree with the industrial action, and did not attend this meeting, I did attend the states workers meeting. As you say, we are all feeling the affects of the recession, which are understandable, but a pay freeze now is a pay cut in the long run.
IAx
Report abuse
Index linked final salary pension going to be discussed? No thought not, get real. Teachers do a great job, but the salary is a reflection of this. If you teachers don’t mention the extra hours they put in we promise not to mention 12 weeks holidays. Unions have little place in Jersey, the civil servants have been bank rolled by private industry for far too long, would love to know the stats on how many public sector workers switch to the private/real world.
Report abuse
“I think you will find as teachers we have “grown up” and our in fact educating the youth of Jersey.”
Our we, indeed?
‘Nuff said !!!
Report abuse
Petal. Your construction of the English language is appalling. Take a pay cut until it improves!
Report abuse
good old teachers, having never left school they have no idea whats going on in the real world, but give a good lesson in how to make a bad saituation worse, “join a union.”
Report abuse
I think what some people don’t realise is that the teachers are objecting to the states doing a u turn on a previously agreed structured pay increase. The states had already agreed to a pay rise, now they are withdrawing it.
This is the key difference between those states workers who expect a pay rise just because they always had one.
Report abuse
#10 Islandangel, the figures are from the States’ published teachers’ salary policy and from what I know from teacher friends.
“A pay freeze now is a pay cut in the long run”… possibly, yes. But you fail to appreciate that in the private sector not only is pay frozen with no real ability to negotiate as alternative jobs are thin on the ground, but also some are taking pay cuts, some reduced hours and many losing their jobs altogether. Get real.
Report abuse
Keith – I for one am glad that the States have had the sense to do a u-turn. Times have changed, we are in more trouble than we thought and steps have to be taken accordingly. Exactly the same thing is happening in the UK: you’ve seen it this week with the tory policy, two years ago promising public sector spending increases of 2% a year, now the policy is major cuts including pay freezes. Good govts. react to changing times and should not be embarassed to change position.
Report abuse
Jersey complaining because they’ve never had it so good once more…
£19k starting in the UK, whereby a great deal of the children are nasty, intolerable creatures compared to the £29k starting in Boden-land. What a joke.
Report abuse
14 – thanks for putting it into context as the other posts did not.
Interestingly though from the other posts lamenting the number of hours they put in and how they have to work in non-term time. I don’t know many other jobs that you work 8.30 – 3.30 plus some xtra hours plus approx 14 weeks holiday.
In schools time is allowed for non-contact time and some lesson planning can be done in the day and yes some must be done out of school hours but most serious jobs with responsibility work unpaid overtime plus weekends as the crackberry generation will know – not saying it is right but the private sector is much more cut throat and demands higher productivity and that can include when you are on holiday. Plus you don’t get such a good pension deal as well as generous holiday allowances.
If you do strike you will end up putting more stress on working parents as they try to find emergency childcare cover or have to take time off work which when companies are thinking of making people redundant it puts the working mum in the firing line.
Understand your grievences but the timing is not right and is very unsympathetic to hard working families who as usually are bearing the brunt.
8. I appreciate the public sector makes this Island tick although those that work and pay tax also make the Island tick and support Jersey’s very large public sector and your very generous pension scheme.
Report abuse
To expect a pay rise, whether previously agreed or not, in a reccession is absolutely ridiculous!
Look at the facts, London the main thrust of our economy has lost over half of its money flow (over 100billion) The UK government is 175billion in debt, and rising. America, Japan, Europe e.t.c. have all seen a significant drop in GDP. This has a knock on effect on Jersey. 600 people have already lost there jobs in Jersey since 2008. We are heading into a severe recession.
What planet are the teachers and the union on?
Report abuse
As a teacher I am less upset about the pay freeze than about the withdrawal of negotiating rights. I do think that all employees, public or private sector, should have the right to negotiate over pay and conditions. It is a fundamental principle of any civilised society.
Yes we work long hours and, yes, the job is demanding, but these are factors we have in common with many other professions.People who are jealous of the school holidays should consider re-training -you may be surprised to learn that, despite this perk, there are teacher shortages in many areas.
I personally do not think Jersey teachers are well paid – certainly my standard of living here is a lot lower than it was in the UK, despite a salary that looks higher on paper and tax that looks less (though not a lot less) on paper.For illustration; my mortgage in the UK for a large 4 bed house was £350 a month, plus £125 council tax. Here I pay £2100 for a much smaller and poorer quality house.
As I said, my complaint is more about the negotiation rights. However, this island is so ludicrously expensive that if public servants are not well paid, valued and listened to, Jersey will have difficulty recruiting teachers, nurses and other essential employees from the UK in the future.
Report abuse
I have read enough.
Remember what and who caused this recession – the greedy banks. Who is now expected to pay for the mess caused by the banks – YES US – the working person be we Teachers, Retail workers, Office workers, Public Sector workers, you name it we are all having to foot the bill either by pay cuts, pay freezes, increased 20 means 20 taxes, GST, now Social security increases on the horizon, possible retirement age increased to 68.
Stop criticising the teachers or indeed any one section of the workforce – we are all going to have to pay through the nose for the greed of the banks and I bet my bottom dollar Senior staff in the banks won’t have pay freezes and will still get their bonuses.
Shouldn’t we jointly aim our criticisms at the greed of the Big Banks and not at individual sectors of our Community?
Report abuse
I think you should lay off the teachers. It doesn’t look like Pip Ward has been able to afford a haircut since 1989.
Report abuse
As someone who has been married to a teaching professional for nearly 10 years, I wholeheartedly disagree with those who feel they can form an opinion without having even experienced the hell some teachers go through each week. Such a vocation involves spending countless hours (yes, that’d be BEFORE 9am & AFTER 3pm) preparing, marking, planning, parent consultations, etc. The much-criticised 6 week break often involves many teachers spending at least 3 weeks back at school preparing for the following academic year. Perhaps many critics should take a leaf out of their own book & see how easy a week at school has now become – an educated public would become a more understanding one!
Report abuse
“…many teachers spending at least 3 weeks back at school preparing for the following academic year.”
3 days, more likely. O level results day, A level results day and that day in the final week when they get wind that the head is popping in and might see them and think they’ve been every day.
I was paid to be there every day. That’s how I know!
Report abuse
How often teachers go in or stay away during the holidays still doesn’t stop them having the right to negociate decent pay and terms and conditions, though.
The poor hard done by private sector who have suddenly taking to whingeing – makes a change from their previous cosy stance – are well used to setting their own benchmarks well above public sector expectations.
Report abuse
22 Disgruntled
That’s fine, but are you going to march and protest at the big banks in London and New York …… because it wasn’t Jersey banks that got us in this mess.
Banks, like most big businesses (including the unfortunate local Woolworths branch), are profitable in Jersey. Yet we suffer the same consequences as the muppets who caused this in “the city” or wall street.
What you have to realise is that a lot of local businesses are still making huge profits but are jumping on the bandwagon and using the recession as an excuse to tighten the purse strings and get rid of dead wood.
With regards to GST, taxes and social security increases, this has nothing to do with the banks……you might want to question the greedy states of Jersey politicians about this!!
Report abuse
Re: 25. C Le Verdic
Ah…well in this instance, perhaps it’s the Secondary School teachers who are giving a bad press to the equally hard working Primary School teachers. In addition, given you were “…paid to be there every day. That’s how I know!” I’m assuming you held a caretaker role in the days when ‘O’ levels were undertaken, as opposed to the present day GCSE’s. I can assure, however, things have changed for the better & the ‘apparently’ overpaid teachers are well & truly ‘earning-their-keep!’
Report abuse
“I do think that all employees, public or private sector, should have the right to negotiate over pay and conditions. It is a fundamental principle of any civilised society.”
This seems a bit of woolly thinking from teach. In the private sector, people get paid on performance and everyone can negotiate their own deal. Seems to me that unions destroy this process. So a great teacher gets paid the same as a rubbish teacher.
Look, there’s no more money in the pot. Reception classes at primary school already finish at 2.45 and you get more holidays than anyone else. So there’s nothing to negotiate.
Report abuse
Disgruntled,
Everyone benifited from the strong pound during the good times. I didnt see you complaining about the greed of the banks then. Now its all gone wrong its easy for people like you to jump on the industrial action band wagon screaming injustice. Your a hypocrit. How much did your house price shoot up in the good times? How much more money did you have, did you give it all back and complain – no you took it and looked the other way.
The teachers have to accept the bad times like everyone else, and remember the good times they too benifited from. We all have to pay in a recession, why should public workers be any diffrent?
Report abuse
I support the teachers, they have a difficult and very responsible job to do, anyone who has looked after more than one child in a day will understand how demanding this role can be.
Teachers are responsible for developing childrens minds and helping to shape society yet they have little power to discipline children, so positive reinforcement is necesary all day long. The primary school teachers I am currently meeting they have geniune care for the students and are always kind and considerate to their needs (even the difficult ones).
I challenge anyone to spend a day dealing with a difficult group people and be able to remain calm and have the ability to redirect negativity whilst teaching vital information.
Teachers also receieve a lot less support from parents, in that I mean if a teacher told a child off in the past the parents where likely to follow up believe and support that teacher, now there is a strong belief that the child could not have possibly been badly behaved we all bring up angels!
We are lucky enough to have some excellent quality teachers in our island and the facilities are also at a high standard. we all are suffering with the price rises and anger should be directed at the States for their increasing taxes and spending on inappropriate projects during a time when essentials should be a main priority.
Having the support of their union to protect a promise already made is their basic right.
TEACHERS ARE WORTH THEIR WEIGHT IN GOLD, if only we could say that about some of the people running this islands!
Report abuse
(27) BS Deluxe
Are you saying that Jersey Banks are a separate entity? I think not! Why is it that when I phone my local bank I get put through to a call centre in UK or even further afield!
Mind you I have to agree with your last point about the “greedy States of Jersey Politicians”!
Report abuse
32
Technically they are seperate because we are an offshore jurisdiction but unfortunately the head offices (and ultimate owners) of these banks lie elsewhere .
You couldn’t walk into a UK branch of your bank and ask for account information because they don’t have access to offshore accounts.
Report abuse
#28
Uneducated Public 2
My apologies, I actually meant GCSEs (no apostrophe needed, by the way).
I had completely forgotten that O levels were replaced with easier exams!
No, I wasn’t the caretaker but I did have to tell enquirers that the teacher they hoped to speak to – including the head – would not be in until September.
Report abuse
i can understand fully the teachers point of you, so much effort goes into giving school pupils the best education HOWEVER… what i can not seem to understand is that there are so many people in the world with nothing, yet we still all complain about what we have ?, at least they are employed and earning a living. i think people need to take a step back and think of those across the world who do not even have enough money to live and have to work at the age of 5 !! and i understand that does not effect us, but surely it is rather selfish that we are complaining about money and employment and everything else when there are peolpe dying because they can not afford to eat.. thats just my opinion.
Report abuse
‘Technically they are seperate because we are an offshore jurisdiction but unfortunately the head offices (and ultimate owners) of these banks lie elsewhere .
You couldn’t walk into a UK branch of your bank and ask for account information because they don’t have access to offshore accounts.’
You are not kidding. If anyone in Jersey calls their bank for investment advice they are shifted off to India or elsewhere.
but the island will be bankrupt.
Ten years time; bank in Jersey, staff in the far east, no tax paid anywhere.
We will have a really efficient off shore finance industry aiding the global economy
Report abuse
“Ten years time; bank in Jersey, staff in the far east, no tax paid anywhere.”
I don’t think it will be that straightforward, Pip.
The thing is, Jersey is a nice place to live in for rather a lot of these people – as long as they can afford it.
So I think the banks will still be in Jersey but in order to keep the employees in the style to which they have become accustomed, the customers will be paying hefty service charges!
Report abuse
The fastest growing banks in the world at the moment are Chinese as they are recycling the vast cash earmings from Chinese industry.
The Chinese are already big players in commodities. I reckon in a decade or two they will have their own finance centres out in the Far East, places to watch are Hong Kong and Singapore. They speak Chinese, are nice and close and understand Chinese sensibilities.
The European nations dominated world industry and finance for most of the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, only to be eclipsed by the US in the later part of the twentieth century.
China with its huge industries, appetite for natural resources and mind boggling cash flows will certainly dominate the twenty first century.
When it comes to global finance being a nice place to live really does not cut the mustard.
I am not predicting the end of Jersey finance but certainly a relative decline seems inevitable.
Report abuse
People in the private sector have taken pay cuts of around five percent or so over the past year.
Pay rises? In the current environment?
Sorry, no sympathy.
Report abuse
I will agree on this issue if a few points are sorted out first. If the teachers had a back bone and sorted the kids out with spelling, making sure the kids wear the right uniform not highheels, mini skirts, Make up and silly bleached hair like(Haute Valley and Les Quennavais school girls)Reason I say this is because these kids get a shock when entering work. We have had a few cases where you have to wear a uniform and dress properly, These kids lost there jobs, this was due to them not wanting to wear a uniform properly, being unable to spell and coating everything especially the phones in thick brown make up, When you confront them they say “well we were allowed to wear our uniform whatever way we liked at school”. and “the teachers never pulled us up on our spelling”. Now to me this is wrong, you go to school to learn the basics and how to act in work, not to make up every excuse as to why they think they should’t conform with new rules. If its pay they need to sort these things out, then pay them, if not get new teachers in. even the poice are saying the teachers dont disipline the kids enough, along with the parents and its making there jobs harder.
Report abuse
Just noticed Petal’s contribution (8). She(?) writes as though she is a teacher.
Her semi-literate offering is a fine example of the horrific standards of some of those in the profession today who either cannot be bothered to put a few words together grammatically or are, quite simply, unable to. I am so grateful that my children were able to get a serious grounding in the three Rs in the sixties and seventies from teachers worthy of the name.
Report abuse
“I am not predicting the end of Jersey finance but certainly a relative decline seems inevitable.”
Hopefully you will turn out to be right, Pip.
Then Jersey will cut my mustard!
Report abuse
Who cares? Come on, let’s all be friends…
Report abuse
james e (40)
You really should have checked your post before you unleashed it, especially considering its content.
Report abuse
Ben 39) “People in the private sector have taken pay cuts of around five percent or so over the past year”.
Ben where did you get your information / evidence from? Did you do a private sector business door to door survey?
I suspect not – another generalisation without proof or facts!
Report abuse
1.They (the teachers) do this for the love not the money right??
2.Otherwise they would have chosen (after Uni) something far more lucrative??
3.The age old saying…..Those than can do and those that can’t teach
4.How about putting a lesson together on the reality outside the classroon…I thought not!!
Report abuse
If parents were charged for having their children educated then there would be plenty of money in the pot to pay them a bit more, and our taxes would go further as well. After all the government keeps on about a user pays policy.
Report abuse
Adrian makes a valid point. It would seem that the general idea is becoming “If you want it – pay for it and the Devil take the hindmost.
Perhaps it won’t happen with education because those who can’t or won’t pay will beget an underclass of truanting street urchins.
On the other hand the self educated might just outsmart the privileged. That would never do, so better leave things as they are!
Report abuse
Adrian, you cannot be serious, but if you are lets take it one step further and charge all of those that have been educated, I will find out where you should send your cheque for YOUR education!
Report abuse
Bob, Agreed, I apologise to all, I think i was having one of those days! I will think a bit more before speaking my mind.
Report abuse
@ harvmiester #46
“…Those than can do and those that can’t teach…”
Those that can, do; those that can’t teach… grammar!
Report abuse
Bob Flemming 44. to james e 40.
PAAARDON Bob!? (I’ve used both punctuation marks here, as your use of the word “Pardon” differs to mine).
Are you criticizing the writing style of this very kind person who was generous enough to share his/her opinion with the rest of us?!,;:. (I’ve thrown in a good few punctilious punctuation marks…just to be on the safe side and with the hope of satisfying your very high standards).
Because if you are, I find it rather unkind, don’t you?!,;:.*”…”(I’m playing safe again!)
Report abuse
Good idea Adrian – thats what already happens at JCG and VCP, Beaulieu and De La Salle, St George’s, St Michael’s, St Chrisophers and probably others.
Let’s close down the States schools and send all children of poor parents to work. They could perhaps clean offices (being small they will find it easier to get under desks).
It might even discourage poor people from having children and we would be able to use the slump in population to invite over a few more 1(1)k’s who will have nice, middle class kids.
Another sensible policy to create a less divided society – you are on a roll these days.
Report abuse
Will all those who attended Public school (privately funded), please stand up!
I’d just love to know if there’s any real difference in educational quality…Oh my goodness! It’s so hard typing when one is standing, n’est-ce pas?
Report abuse
#47 I’ve always worked on the basis that since we all (?) received school education and we all (?) pay SS (NI in the UK) that we are all paying retrospectively for our own education?
I do agree that if we wish to go beyond compulsory education then we should pay for it. I have paid for and continue to pay for my own university education, it involves sacrifices but I do not believe that someone who chose not to go to University should have to pay for my choice to go. It is a choice, and it can give us the opportunity to earn more in the future to offset the cost. Also, too many degrees are entirely pointless and a waste of both the students’ time and the taxpayers money. In the same respect I believe that tradesmen should either be sponsored by a firm (through apprenticeship) or pay for their own education.
Governments insist on continuing to force everyone to pay for CHOICES that some people make, be it further education, having children, … I cannot say this is something I agree with.
Report abuse
Gary just making the point that in a user pays society like we have in Jersey this is the way things could well go.
By the way do you value education? Things that are free have a tendency to get abused or taken for granted.
Please remember anyone who pays for an education is cutting taxes for the rest, because if everyone went to States schools more tax revenues would be needed to pay for all this, wouldn’t they? As we all know no one likes paying more taxes do they?
mad foetus in case you are unaware we have falling levels of younger people hence the demographic time bomb, which has been kept well covered till recently by the way. Maybe you think one worker can support one retiree in the near future? Maybe this is the real reason for wanting to raise the retirement age, not enough workers for the tread mill of consumerism and capitalism?
More 1.1k’s are not the way to go, as far as I am concerned, unless you want a more polarised society than we have at present, with an increase in costs of things over here. Also you will be taxed even more to make up the shortfall due to increased numbers of them, unless you inflate the population even more leading to all the associated problems that go with it.
By espousing the greed is good policy we are creating a two tier world of the haves and have nots. Remember poverty is man made and it is up to mankind to decide to get rid of it. However for this to happen those with the most will have to give up some of their wealth to enable this. Either that or we could start printing more money and giving it to the poorer in society, maybe we could brand it as lower socio-demographic quantitive easing?
No that wouldn’t do would it? Best help the divide to get even bigger by keeping things as they are.
As per The age old saying…..Those than can do and those that can’t teach
I was taught a slightly different one…
Those that can’t do manage those that do.
Report abuse
Having had experience of both public & state education,I can honestly say that money doesn’t buy everything-and judging by the manners and attitudes of kids sent to public school in Jersey,all it teaches them is an overinflated sense of self importance and lack of respect for others.My kids went to state primary school prior to us leaving Jersey & had an excellent education.As there was such a mix of kids from all backgrounds it also gave them a hint of the real world and that there are others less fortunate than them-not that money (or mummy and daddy’s money) can buy you anything you want!
As for pay-you’re not going to attract teachers,nurses etc (or retain them) unless the package is attractive-a sea view is not going to pay the bills as stunning as it may be;hence why we made the tough decision to move-the recession is everywhere,Jersey wake up or you’re going to sink not swim!
Report abuse
Adrian,
If this is a User Pays society then why on earth am I still being deducted SS and paying Income Tax, Parish Rates etc?
I do not like the fact that Parish rates differ from one parish to another, they should at least be the same throughout the island (if needed at all)….unless we build fences around each parish and charge tolls for “outsiders” to enter and leave.
I also do not like paying SS, supposedly to support those in need….and my pension? When my fiancee was made redundant she had no support whatsoever because I was still in work….even though she had paid for several years whilst working.
Who really benefits from these taxes…..it is not Joe Public. We do not get adequate law and order from our police force and now marshalls have been introduced and funded by other means for taxi ranks.
On top of this millions are wasted by the monkeys in charge and nothing is done so they get to stay in their positions and waste even more.
The tax-subsidised bus service does nothing but line the pockets of Connex instead of offering a real cost effective service to us, the ones paying them.
Tenders going out to non-local companies for projects we do not need are dubious to say the least.
This list goes on and on and on…..
Tell me again…..WHAT are we REALLY paying taxes for. Or should I say WHO is REALLY getting our money??
Report abuse
57…continuation
I forgot to mention that the system of paying Parish rates is absurd. How many people do not pay the rates because they moved to another parish after 1st Jan and before they received their bill…..or just do not pay them period?
Many years ago I found out I had a black mark against my credit and when I investigated it turned out to be a Parish Rates bill that I never knew I had to pay. You see, I had moved before receiving a bill (to another address within the same parish)and because Jersey is such a huge island with an immense population the parish found it impossible to locate me to pass on the bill, so instead I got tarred with a bad credit rating!
No wonder they don’t know how many people reside in Jersey when they can’t even keep track of those in a small parish!
Report abuse
The recession has not hit mainstream Jersey strongly at this time, we are just on the edge of the pond, but the waves are going to keep coming, and the States of Jersey ( public sector workers up 19 staff on last year ) are still asleep.
The taxman knows that he is not going to take as much , there is real concern about how much the revenue will actually bank. A deficit of around £50 million is suggested this is just a crude guess.
This thread is about teachers should they cut their cloth or strike ?
Teachers have a difficult job, with the almost embarrassing pile of red tape, posh parents who have kids for accessory value, and those that have them for financial benefit value, and the teachers spend a lot of time with these unfortunate off-spring who crave attention.
Please take me at my word one of my oldest friends is a headmaster at a primary school. He loves his job with passion. I would suggest he is a credit to the profession. He also would earn one third less in the UK. He told me five years ago he earned around £73,000 per annum.
In the UK you suffer 40% tax on earnings above £38,000 many people forget this, just enacted by the UK Government earnings over £150,000 attract tax of 50p in the pound.
If you read up on scrutiny and to confirm what a poster wrote above, there are in some areas too many teachers in Jersey schools, as pupil’s numbers are dwindling. The spin is that this is better for our children. The truth is there is less work for teachers but some are on contracts but most are on permanent so cannot be dismissed.
Teachers are paid well here, and have great place to live. Maybe inner city Manchester or Birmingham where the work is harder,more violent and less rewarding but cheaper to live may suit those that are not happy.
My personal view is the teachers with their fabulous well equipped schools lack of performance related pay, 25% to 35% greater earnings than the UK, generous paternity leave etc, should not complain in these troubled times.
Report abuse
“teachers … should not complain in these troubled times.”
Maybe not about their own situation.
However, they and most of the population should be complaining from the rooftops about the enrichment of, and total lack of repentance by, those who got us into “these troubled times” and who still intend to do very nicely thank you.
Report abuse
canuckbean 57.
As you have had “hands-on” experience of the educational quality of both Public and States school, I would truly like to know why you believe that “bad manners/behaviour” are the product of Public schools only.
I went to public school in England (many years ago), not the happiest period of my life but nevertheless a very formative one. My parents were not rich, but they believed it was the best form of education.
I mixed with children from all backgrounds and we were all treated the same (severely).
Egotism and conceit were quickly “eradicated” by the schoolmasters/mistresses who were feared and reverred.
Any kind of “loudness” was frowned upon, and arrogance was considered “the ailment” of the characterless.
With regard to respect, we were told that we represented our school, therefore, we had to be on our best behaviour at all times.
I was taught never to interrupt or correct people, and never to speak the words: “You are wrong!”…
But the most important thing I learned was: “My freedom ends where the next man’s begins” (something I have never forgotten).
All of these things were simply the continuation of my parents teachings…nothing more, nothing less.
The real problem today is that teachers(Public and States) have no real power over the children in their care. They are frightened of irrate parents whose children are always right.
These overindulgent parents do their children no favours, as when these mollycoddled individuals enter the “real world” they are emotionally unprepared for the difficulties they must face…regardless of their school!
Report abuse
@ Leah Holmes #55
“…I’ve always worked on the basis that since we all (?) received school education and we all (?) pay SS (NI in the UK) that we are all paying retrospectively for our own education?…”
That may well be the basis on how you’ve always worked; it is, however, utter rubbish.
Report abuse
@ Leah Holmes #55
“…I’ve always worked on the basis that since we all (?) received school education and we all (?) pay SS (NI in the UK) that we are all paying retrospectively for our own education?…”
That may well be the basis on how you’ve always worked; it is, however, utter rubbish.
Really classy comment, J Lamborrari. Your egotism and conceit were obviously not eradicated, as referred to in Born Warrior’s post.
Report abuse
born warrior -61
I went to both private and state school in the UK-I am not saying that bad manners are the product of private schools only,I am saying that having seen the manners and attitudes of some of the private school kids in Jersey,I am glad my kids went to state primary!Bad/lack of manners are a result of not only what your parents teach you but of what kids also experience in the society around them.
I had good and bad experiences in both school sectors growing up-what I am really saying is that just because you may choose to pay for your childs education,does not necessarily mean it is any better!Many of the more well off kids also use mum and dads money as a power tool to gain status over many kids who may not be as well off ;(I’ve heard their conversations walking down king st and perhaps this is an attitude they have picked up from their parents) -not earn respect and status off their own back.As an ex parent govenor of my kids school I am well aware of constraints placed on teachers and take my hat off to anyone taking up teaching as a career-I am extremely glad that I have taught my kids to respect others, and that money can’t buy you everything- I am also glad that my children are no longer growing up in a money obsessed society.
As for your actions representing the school-I agree,but we teach our kids that your actions represent what we have also taught you-after all you represent your parents for far longer than you do a school-I am proud to say that when people make comments about my children,it’s usually that they are well behaved and well balanced!
Report abuse
@Bob Fleming #63
Why is it egotistical and or conceited to point out that what somebody believes is factually wrong?
Report abuse
Bob Fleming 64.
J Lamborrari obviously didn’t go to my school.
On this occasion I would have said:
“Leah, I think you will find that you are not quite right!”…and then I would have put forward my strongest argument against her beliefs.
Sometimes (just sometimes) I find people are a little too harsh on their opponents. However, I remember (in your favour) your verbal punch-up with Rosemary Bead (the 20mph supporter), and your very “classy” way of stepping back. You, Sir, are a gentleman…with a keen sense of humour
Report abuse
Thanks Born Warrior – you’re very kind. I just think that a few people on these forums insult others too easily, based on the safety allowed by the anonymity. Would these people speak to others like that in person? I doubt it.
I don’t think that Leah was trying to be factual with her theory about retrospectively paying for her education through paying taxes, but if she believes that she’s doing that, we can’t really tell her it’s rubbish, because it’s a belief that she lives by. Shall we tell all religious people in the World that their beliefs are rubbish? I personally wouldn’t, as it’s their belief and their entitled to it. Conversely, I don’t want religious people to tell me that I’m inferior because I don’t share their beliefs.
Report abuse