States workers to vote on strike action
Thursday 22nd October 2009, 2:58PM BST.
Union leader Nick Corbel
STATES workers will be balloted over possible strike action after politicians upheld the public sector pay freeze.
Union leader Nick Corbel said that his members were already angry and frustrated with ministers, but that tempers would be more frayed after the States voted 24-17 yesterday to keep the pay freeze in place.
During the debate, several Members spoke about the possibility of strikes and a ‘winter of discontent’, and Unite official Mr Corbel said that they were not exaggerating.
Speaking from the UK, he said: ‘I will be making arrangements for a strike ballot to take place as soon as I am back in the Island. I have the mandate to ballot the membership. I understand that the teaching unions are in the same position, as are other associations, civil servants included.’
In the States yesterday, Members voted in favour of maintaining the pay freeze on the 6,749 public sector workers, rejecting Deputy Shona Pitman’s proposition after a day of
debate.
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I fully respect the hard work our states works do, but they must understand most of the private sector has had pay freezes or cuts inc me. These are amazing times with no inflation. they should agree to a pay freeze this year and as things improve over the next few years ask the states to remember how they helped the island in difficult times like we are doing for our private sector firms.
If they do strike we need to bring in temporary works from UK put them up in the hotels which have lots of space over the winter and break the strikes we must not back down.
I will work extra time collecting bins as could do with some money as have taken pay cut.
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As I have previously said they should tighten their belts like the rest of us are doing. They have relatively secure, well paid, pensionable jobs.
No one is getting a pay rise this year, even if they they have exceeded their targets. My friends in the UK have taken pay cuts and some lost their jobs without redundancy.
Wake up and enter the real world, there’s a recession on worldwide, even in Jersey.
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If everyone in the island who didn’t get a pay rise were to strike, almost all workers would be pounding the pavements with banners.
Get over it and get on with your job, which you are lucky to have.
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Here we go .. back to the 70′s which is just typical of the style of leadership currently in place in the Jersey branch of the T&GWU. For the record I do not agree with a total pay freeze in the public sector or the way in which both parties have addressed the situation. The Union Leaders are duty bound, in my opinion, to try harder to avoid strike action or even the threat of strike action by negotiating better opportunities for pay increases in the forthcoming years as the local economy improves. Incidentally – States Members are duty bound to engage fully in such talks …
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Can we please try and get this terminology right once and for all, States workers are asking for a cost of living increase in order to ” maintain the existing standard of living” – they are not asking for a pay rise which is over and above the cost of living.
In the ten years that I worked for the States I NEVER had a pay rise, just cost of living increases, which were always swallowed up by increased food/fuel/living costs.
Thank god i don’t work for them anymore!!!
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If you cannot make it in real life you either work for the state or the parish, that includes the State’s members who on this occasion have unusually been somewhat brighter than the workers by giving themselves a pay rise. I would advise the workers to sit back and not try to grab the loaf but wait for a few crumbs to be thrown in their direction, pigs also fly.
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I do question whether members of this union really do understand the enormity of the financial situation our Island is facing.
If they do not understand, I suggest their leader be told to relay the facts to them.
I believe they should be given a choice of a pay freeze or a pay increase, paid for with job losses & believe me, that is being kind when compared to the situation in the private sector.
They must remember that it is the tax payers who pay their wages & many tax payers have had to accept wage freezes, wage reductions & even redundancy.
Reality please.
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It will be interesting to see if the so-called ‘trading departments’ staff are exempt from this pay freeze. Numbering in excess of 1200 people, they are left out of any statistics detailing the SIZE of the PUBLIC SECTOR but I bet they will join the 6749 in having their income frozen. What the approaching strike nonsence will highlight is the huge gap in income and benifits between the eight thousand plus states employees and those doing the same work in the real world.
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Our prescient, far seeing and oh-so-wise legislators took great care to vote themselves an additional £1,000 per annum.
Call it what one will – a pay rise or a cost of living increase – it certainly gives every other waged or salaried person on the island an excellent precedent for demanding their slice of the pie.
Will the “honourable” Senators, Connetables, Deputies ever learn to think any further than the ends of their noses? Will the Bailiff, his deputy and the other Law Officers ever realise that they are answerable to the court of public opinion?
Not as long as those patrician noses are stuck in the trough called the States Budget.
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Can you really really blame them….leadership should come from the front…the workers have to stand by and watch their employer throw Zillions away on stupid and unescessary projects , reports,experts, collosal overspends,civil servants on a quarter of a million ££’s a year..yes it IS five grand a week,..just think £1000,-00 a day… must the ordinary worker really subsidise these mismanaged projects,just take the Euro exchange debacle… which would have kept them in rises for some time,yet the politicians awarded themselves a grand a year rise,have free car parking..why ??? everyone else who works in town has to pay or is berated for driving in and exhorted to cycle by some green loony..yes in the pouring rain that’ll be right.they have free phone calls ,blackberries,etc and bitch about having to get their own lunch…and when the ordinary worker wants a small incremental rise he is viewed as Satan he’self…come on.
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Mogit – “Can we please try and get this terminology right once and for all, States workers are asking for a cost of living increase in order to ” maintain the existing standard of living” – they are not asking for a pay rise which is over and above the cost of living”.
Mogit, any increase in take home pay is a pay rise, the value of the money is irrelevant. Cost of living rise – how many of us working for the banks got 0.5 or 1% pay rises when the cost of living was 3-5% There are people working in the real world ( not Disneyland ) who have never seen a cost of living pay rise – Bell Curve anyone?
What is the basis for this proposed strike action – “we want a pay rise cos we’ve always had one”? The world is undergoing a major recession, Jersey being finance based is affected worse than most, shut up, be glad you have jobs and that you have a fair employer who will not sck you without a fair renumeration package.
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It is the £1000 pay rise for States members that sticks in my throat.
Vote yourself a grand each, turn round and tell your staff that they cannot have anything when most of them are earning less than you are and are living in far less salubrious accommodation.
The States’ staff are not very militant, most of them would vote Tory if they could but carefully and caringly sticking two fingers up at them in this bone headed way is bound to cause ill feeling.
Good leaders take care to show that they are sharing the privations of the men and women that they are leading.
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I, and no doubt other taxpayers, have considerable sympathy for all those, who have suffered hardship, due to the worldwide recession, but why should Public Sector workers be so misinformed by their leadership into believing that it does not somehow also affect them ?
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Thanks Thicko Micko – you said exactly what I was going to say to Mogit in response to his comment. Not many of us have had a pay rise and yes this makes the value of the pound in our pocket less, but we’re all in the same boat. For the record I can’t remember the last time I got a cost of living increase.
The rejection of the proposition is great news, here here for the sensible 24. This has been yet another idiotic proposition from the JDA – please will someone get them out!
It’s about time that these people get in the real world. I’m fed up seeing year after year how these workers want more, more, more and if they don’t get it they’ll throw their toys out the pram and strike.
It should be written into their contracts that should anyone strike they’ll be sacked, there are plenty of people out there that would welcome a fairly secure job with a nice pension plan.
Sorry States workers but you’ll get no sympathy from me.
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This is crazy. At a time when many are having to ‘tighten their belts’, or have lost their jobs, States workers need to exercise constraint.
They need to wait until the good times return and then the States need to give them a commitment that they will reward staff for holding back, in these times of recession. If they strike now, I doubt that many people will support them from the remainder of the population.
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All this talk, back and forth, is fine.
But what of the plight of the people in the lower strata of our society: people living on government pensions and very little else?
When will THEY receive a decent raise – be that a cost of living increment or (God forbid) a real increase in their weekly dole?
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Please don’t take the bait guys…the money gremlins just love it when what are really fellow workers Turn on each other, it’s exactly what they want…takes the spotlight off their far bigger self serving schemes…..stay with the programme…it is the filthy rich who are the problem not the workers………..
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Ride out the recession and roll-in the reliables.
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It is a great pity that the contributors to these (mostly anonymous) comments don’t feel brave enough to put their heads above the parapet and have their letters published in the printed paper.
I have always been brave enough and, apart from the occasional anonymous and abusive telephone call or letter (which I refer to the police if appropriate),it can be a satisfying exercise.
It might give the JEP editors the task of devoting a full two pages to ‘Letters’ every day but, as things stand at present, the more publicity given to trade union nonsenses the better.
But are you up for it?
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Public employees
o Secure Job
o Final Salary Pension Scheme (they just
don’t realise how much this is worth)!!
o Paid sick leave that a large number
take as “extra holiday entitlement” – I
kid you not, it is rife!!
o Overtime rates that would embarrass the
private sector PLUS days in lieu
o Supposed “good will” that is in fact
part of the job description and
contract of employment
o Attitude of shafting the “employer”
for all they can get “it is after all
only the States”
How do I know?? – I was one for ages and more fool me, left to work in the private sector as I could not take anymore of the whinging!
If the question were put to these hard done by individuals “would you rather work for the private sector or the states”, what do you think the answer would be? I think we all know!!
And before any lefty bleeding heart retorts, of course this is a sweeping generalisation and I am sure that there are hard working dedicated states employees out there but there are also a heck of lot who take the job and all the perks they get totally for granted!
Strike and you will see how little support there is from the rest of us who have to live and work in the real world
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If we strike, cool, i get an unpaid holiday, already used my paid leave this year!
If we don’t strike and accept the pay freeze, cool, simply take my cost of living rise via paid sick leave next year, its a win win situation!
My sick leave has to be covered in overtime so its actually a win win win situation as my co-workers will get the overtime and vice versa!
Keep your chins up, i’m sure it will all come out in the wash and everyone will get their just deserts, i know i will!!!
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I trust that that all those who love to bandy about the emotive phrase:
“Final Salary Pension Scheme”
know what it actaully means.
The pension paid is a proportion derived from the final salary. It doesn’t usually equal the final salary.
Would the knockers of pension schemes prefer that it was based on one’s starting salary as a school leaver?
The fund is built up by contributions from the employee as well as the employer and is often optional.
Do some people like knocking pension schemes because either they were too tight or not smart enough to join one themselves? Or didn’t they support their union in protesting against the withdrawal of final salary schemes. Or don’t they see the need for unions?
It is amazing how so many, who are eligible to join pension schemes but don’t, think that the lottery or ERNIE will see them through their old age.
The final salary (derived) scheme seems pretty fair to me. However, mere mortals won’t be paid their final salary once they stop work. The directors might be, though.
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well done Baz,
you may have just been trying to be funny, but you have just increased my contempt for public sector workers……you are a soft breed and would not survive in the cut-throat private sector.
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“you are a soft breed and would not survive in the cut-throat private sector.”
Yeah,but, whose throats are the private sector cutting?
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BS Deluxe,
I asure you I wasn’t trying to be funny, I really have used up all my paid leave this year!!! Nightmare!
You are also quite right of course, i am a soft breed, hence the reason I take so much paid sick leave each year, just typing this has left me spent!
Still, keep your chin up, I’m sure the “cut-throat” private sector is treating you well and I really should get back to work…… well, I say work, I’m trying to book a cheeky New Years getaway somewhere nice, can you recommend anywhere?
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Let them strike then sack them and take on a new workforce with NO union and see how many run back with their tail between their legs. I left a union run company 3 years ago its the best thing i ever did
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Why don’t we just return to the good old days of doffing our caps to the employers?
Lets let them do what they want with us, hire and fire as they want, no annual leave, no sickness and no pension and be paid a pittance.
We can also do away with health and safety, and “soft” things like social security so peple work till they drop.
All this should encourage more big business into the island, shouldn’t it, as their profits would go through the roof.
I’m sure the right wing Tory’s over here will be lapping this up, as will certain people on this forum.
Why shouldn’t the pie be split up more evenly around the world? It is a disgrace that a select few get nearly everything and the majority get next to nothing. In a decent society we wouldn’t have these problems. However in a decent society people would care about their neighbour/work collegue instead of trying to get one over on them for personal gain.
As for those knocking indexed pensions maybe it is the selfish factor of I’m not getting one so I’m going to do what I can to make sure others don’t get one? Instead of trying to reduce others benefits why not try and increase your benefits? All you are doing is ensuring that your few conditions you have left will end up being taken away as well over time. Why the race to the bottom?
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Adrian
“We can also do away with health and safety, and “soft” things like social security so peple work till they drop.”
This is happening already WITH Social Security because the money is either being badly invested for our pensions or being given away as benefits to those too lazy to work.
Maybe if more people were less reliant on the states to give them handouts (and the states didn’t make it too easy) then they would more likely be inclined to find work to support themselves.
I for one am sick to death of working non-stop, paying my dues and then looking around at Mr & Ms Chav to see they have it better than me without having to work….and I’m helping to pay for their lifestyle!
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I’m with Pip Clement on this one, I find it quite incredible that a body of people who have just awarded themselves a significant pay rise should then deem it perfectly equitable to turn round and freeze everybody else’s pay rise?
Whatever do they think is going to be the reaction to this enforced financial restraint after such a self serving, and frankly selfish, action?
I have a theory that this is a generational thing.
There are generations of individuals who hit all the highs, and lows, in the economic cycle at precisely the right age to take full advantage of the situation, the perks in the good times,and to be positioned advantageously in the bad!
They have a history of taking full advantage of the perks themselves in the good times, and then removing them for the generations following!
Some past examples: Company cars, Personal Tax allowances, Business entertaining and travel expenses (First class Hotel and air travel, restaurant entertaining), Final salary pensions (In the private sector).
Some future examples: Annual performance bonus,share incentive schemes, cost of living payments,early retirement options.
When people from one of these generations become the majority in decision making bodies, their judgement is colored by their life experience rather than by taking into consideration the position of all the generations effected by their decisions.
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BS Deluxe,
“I for one am sick to death of working non-stop, paying my dues and then looking around at Mr & Ms Chav to see they have it better than me without having to work….and I’m helping to pay for their lifestyle!”
I hope you dont take this the wrong way, but I think you will, if your earning less money than those on the social over here, than I dont think YOU are surviving too well in the “cut-throat private sector”.
Get a new job!
I could put a good word in for you at my place….. but you’ll have to lose the attitude! Let me know.
Or get a job that pays even less than you’re earning now so you drop below the tax threshold amd so reduce the amount you contribute to all the chavs on social. Because, as we all know there are NO people on social that deserve it, every single one of them are freeloaders. NONE of them have fallen ill or are carers for severley disabled relations or have had an accident or are on maternity leave or are widowed.
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I am fed up with people criticising the public sector. At lunch yesterday people in the private sector were moaning about lack of bonuses. The public sector NEVER get bonuses. If we have a work meal out we pay for it ourselves. They also listed their free critical illness cover, low mortgage rate, free private health insurance. None of these people have any qualifications and they also earn more than I will ever earn at the top of my job. I have a degree. What is the point of working hard at school? And we had to do tennerfest, they were ordering a la carte! Is that really a fair society? Of course not. It would actually be nice to have some respect and appreciation from the general public for once!!!
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I really get peed off when I listen to overpaid finance sector workers slating those who are in jobs that have responsibly negotiated their wages alongside the cost of living for the past 40 odd years.
up until just a few years ago the finance sector was drastically short of workers, anyone who could count to eleven without taking their shoes off would get a job immediately. Vast salary hikes were gained by going from job to job, chasing the buck, playing one employer off against the other, this blackmailed employers into paying vastly inflated salaries. This in turn changed the island from the cheap place to live it was in the 70s to what it is now. While all this was going on the public sector carried on with as or near inflation rises, all they want is to carry on this reasonable practice.
How dare those of you who played this irresponsible game of chasing buck ridicule a group of workers who have always been open and responsible in their wage claims.
Those of you who think public workers have an easy life, why not get a job doing it, or is the reason they are not doing so because they probably wouldn’t last 5 minutes in a job where they might have to stand up occasionally, and get dirty.
There are lazy sons of bitches in all walks of life. We need to get rid of all of them. Don’t just pick on public sector workers because they are on show.
Before you say I am prejudice, I do not, and have never, worked in the public sector.
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Feb-up-to be honest it works both ways everyone deserves respect not just one parson or another.
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@PJG but the statistics show that the average pay in the public sector is almost exactly the same as in the private sector (c£39k). There must be hundreds and hundreds of people in the private sector on six figure salaries that pull the average up significantly. Factor in that a public sector job for many is one for life and with a pension at retirement that will probably be double that which a private sector worker could save for and its clear that most people should look to the public sector for an easy life.
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Actually Baz I am on a decent wage, but over 50% is paid on rent. My fiancee is out of work and cannot claim any unemployment benefits and with all the extra bills I have to pay I barely have enough left to survive.
It’s not that I am earning less than those on social, but more like paying a hell of a lot more out where they may be exempt or get heavily subsidised (i.e. rent).
The recession doesn’t seem to hit those on benefits because their lifestyles do not change whereas the rest of us have to tighten the belt or do without.
And clearly I am talking about chav society and I am not including the few people who actually deserve and need the handouts as you sarcastically listed in your last paragraph…..I thought that was quite obvious in my comment when I said “Mr & Ms Chav”!
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al#34
then why dont they stop bitching and get a job in the public sector.
I wouldnt,I couldnt afford the pay cut !
plus I have 25 years in on a final salary pension from a company in the private sector.
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#35 I agree, it’s all very well handing out money, but then to give out all sorts of freebies on top of it and never bother to actually calculate how much income this gives them in real terms?
I did a comparison once with someone whose Government given benefits were listed in detail (anonymously) in a local paper. By the time they had housing allowances, free prescriptions, free public travel etc etc they were ‘taking home’ far more money than many of the hardworking, decent people whose taxes pay for their lifestyle.
While I believe that there is a need for a financial support system of sorts, by no stretch of the imagination should they be ending up with more expendible income than someone who is working full-time.
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I am not sure people are “bitching” just that in a recession where private sector jobs are being lost and salaries frozen many genuinely feel it is outrageous that public sector workers are to strike unless they get a pay rise. Not everyone can be employed by the state unless we move to a communist set up.
The states needs to make some painful and unpopular spending decisions in light of the predicted structural defecit over the next X years and should not given in to union blackmail. blackmailed by teh unions
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BS Deluxe 36 Leah Holmes 37
Means testing would probably be the answer to your concerns, and would most likely leave enough in the pot to look after the genuine needy properly.
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@ Leah Holmes #37
“…While I believe that there is a need for a financial support system of sorts, by no stretch of the imagination should they be ending up with more expendible income than someone who is working full-time…”
I agree; Income Support is supposed to be a safety net, not a career.
I know of two families in Jersey that live next door to each other in semi-detached house(both private rentals) The difference is that one family has a one parent that goes out to work 45+hrs a week and earns(before SS and ITIS) approx. £22kpa: the second family only has a single parent and gets £32kpa through Income Support. It’s a fact that the IS system just isn’t working for most.
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PJG 39.
Short’n'Sweet’n'Spot on!
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Al, people in the private sector tend to bitch from what I have seen. They often think they themselves are above manual workers because they think their job is more important.
It is amazing that these people will attack fellow workers for standing up for their rights. “How dare they….etc” However when it is mentioned that those most able to afford to shoulder the economic burden should pay a bit more more, they attack those suggesting this and try to smear them by calling them communists.
PJG is quite right there should be means testing in place to make sure only those in genuine need get help and not those trying to swing the lead, whether they are local or migrant.
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Adrian
Swings and Roundabouts. Everyone bitches. Public Sector & Private Sector. There are high earners and low earners in both. Except you tend to ignore this fact and assume all Private Sector workers are rolling in it and should “shoulder” the burden for their poor counterparts in the Public Sector. Wake up! We are all in this mess together.
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Adrian
Furthermore, private sector workers do not tend to look down on manual workers because they assume they are more important……..it is more likely that when anyone ever sees a manual worker on the job that they are not actually doing much at all!
How many roadworks are there where there are no workmen in sight. I can name 2 on my journey to work alone…..Motor Mall and Rouge Bouillon!
Also, why do the Parks and Gardens mob tend to only water the hanging baskets in town just after it has rained? I kid you not I’ve seen it with my own disbelieving eyes!
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BS Deluxe
Ever tried pushing a pick and shovel for 8 hours a day ?
Try it sometime, and then come back on here and say the job does not require frequent breaks, good man management appreciates this, Its to do with the shortage of this type of labour after we built the pyramids.
Also, “why do the Parks and Gardens mob tend to only water the hanging baskets in town just after it has rained? I kid you not I’ve seen it with my own disbelieving eyes!”
ONLY ?, “occasionally” and I might believe you, this is sunny Jersey.
How heavy was the rain ? did it penetrate the dried crust, were some of baskets on the round sheltered by overhanging roofs.were some sheltered by the wind direction that day ?
Have you ever tried watering all the hanging baskets in town. Or are you one the great unknowing bitching about something you think you know about ?
As I have said on other posts, I do not work for the States, but I do have a lot of responsibility for aspects of work that require “human beings” to do manual labour.
“How many roadwork’s are there where there are no workmen in sight. I can name 2 on my journey to work alone…..Motor Mall and Rouge Bouillon!”
What has this got to do with how hard they work!
Perhaps it means there’s a “cushy” well paid pesionable job there for someone, Do “you” fancy it BS Deluxe ?
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BS Deluxe when do workers in the public sector slag off their counterparts in the private sector?
I know people in the private sector that look down their noses at those doing so called meanial work thinking they are superior because they wear a suit and they think they do an important job.
Unfortunately not everyone is in this mess as you rightly call it. Some are well cushioned from any downsizing, job losses, cut in wages etc. Infact some will even prosper from this recession by using it to their advantage, even if it means more suffering for others.
It is easy to be critical of that which one can see. Just because no one is on a site doesn’t necessarily mean nothing is being done. It is just that people tend to assume such. Just as when people see workers in a lorry they assume they are doing nothing when they might be having a tea break, for example.
As per all the roadworks about at present not all are down to states workers anyway. Much roadwork is done by private companies on behalf of some states departments so in this case if these people are doing nothing it is unfair to blame the states workers isn’t it? However I am sure this is of no consequence to those in the private sector who preceive the public sector to all be lazy good for nothings.
What constantly amazes me is when one group of workers bitches about another. Talk about knocking your own. These others are not your enemy yet are treated as if they are. This makes it much easier for others behind the scenes to take advantage of this. If it were happening on the battle field this would be called a blue on blue.
I believe everyone regardless of socio-economic status should pull their weight which is not what we have at present in Jersey.
I also believe these economic problems are only going to get worse due to selfishness and greed and that everyone bar the select few is going to be in for a hard time. However the capitalists and right wingers think this is the way forward as it encourages industry and competition and makes money. I ask what use money when the environment is collapsing around your ears? What use is money when people come to realise that it is all but worthless anyway?
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Adrain in your posts above you refer to public sector workers as doing “manual” work or “menial” work and seek to contrast that with the private sector. But obviously there are large numbers of people working in the private sector doing just that kind of work e.g kitchen porters, cleaners, labourers in the building trade. By the same token there are plenty of office workers employed by the states.
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PJG
Actually I was a gardener in the past and the only breaks I ever took were 20 mins for lunch! This job involved light and heavy work depending on the garden, but I can assure you it was non-stop.
I work in an office now up to 10 hours a day without a break….although lucky us, we can have a coffee at our desk! Manual work may be a physical strain, but office work can be a mental strain and very stressful…..you try working in a very busy, short-staffed office with strict deadlines!
This is the 21st century so please explain who would be using a pick and shovel for 8 hours a day. Most roadworks I’ve seen have used small diggers to dig in the road. What have building the pyramids got to do with anything?? surely you are not comparing todays manual workers with those of over 2000 years ago???
Why on earth ask the question about me watering all baskets in town? Obviously not….it’s not my job!
For your information, the times I’ve seen them watering was in the winter when it rained frequently. None of the baskets were sheltered and the soil was not crusty! Stop making pathetic excuses.
The unmanned roadworks are a huge inconvenience to all drivers and frankly I believe can be completed a lot sooner than they are (if they are even needed at all – why do the same roads seem to get dug up nearly every year?). In my opinion (and considering the number of manual workers it takes to dig up a road….almost like the jokes about screwing in light bulbs) then these should be finished a lot sooner than they are.
My comments are made through observation. Why have you added speech marks in your comment to some words which i haven’t quoted?
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Adrian
“I know people in the private sector that look down their noses at those doing so called meanial work thinking they are superior because they wear a suit and they think they do an important job.”
And of course our illustrious states members and high level public sector workers are not culprits of this???
“As per all the roadworks about at present not all are down to states workers anyway. Much roadwork is done by private companies on behalf of some states departments so in this case if these people are doing nothing it is unfair to blame the states workers isn’t it?”
Surely the states departments need to give permission to dig up the roads??? You can’t have any Tom, Dick and Harry digging them up when they please. In this case the States members in my opinion are irresponsible and their incompetent planning for these roadworks results in massive traffic problems and inconvenience to the general public.
“Unfortunately not everyone is in this mess as you rightly call it. Some are well cushioned from any downsizing, job losses, cut in wages etc. Infact some will even prosper from this recession by using it to their advantage, even if it means more suffering for others.”
These people are clearly in the minority and are equal in the public and private sectors. Not every private sector worker is on the average wage, besides how many public sector workers have been made redundant in this recession compared to those in the private sector? there is no real job security at present.
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#40 Who was it that said benefits are no longer a ‘hand up’ by a ‘hand out’? Never a truer word been said.
#43 Too true about everyone bitching!
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