Classroom violence ‘a major problem’
Saturday 24th October 2009, 2:58PM BST.
The panel hearing evidence into school suspensions
TEACHERS in Jersey are being subjected to intense verbal and physical abuse, that no other organisation in the Island has to deal with, it was claimed yesterday.
Secrecy in the Island’s schools is also a worrying problem, according to a teacher’s union representative who expressed concern that schools were hiding details about incidents such as violent attacks by students.
A major Education and Home Affairs scrutiny panel review int school suspensions is underway after figures showed that one of the Island’s biggest schools had over 200 suspensions between 2007 and 2008.
In giving evidence to the sub-panel, Philippa Ward, chairwoman of the Jersey Teachers Panel, said that student behaviour was becoming ‘more challenging’.
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At last! having worked in schools for a number of years, the level of violence against teaching staff and other pupils has grown to epidemic proportions along with the levels of vandalism which runs into thousands of pounds annually.
The answer from school management – sweep it under the carpet, very little gets dealt with.
To see how big the problem is becoming look at how many T.A.’s the school has in relation to teaching staff,it’s the tip of the iceberg!!!
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Get rid of all teachers’ sanctions and what do you expect?
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The banning of corporal punishment is schools was the start of this. If a child can behave as he likes without fear of punishment then of course they are going to run wild.When I was at school misbehaviour would result in the cane. Most kids behaved and those that didn’t were dealt with.
Kids resspected teachers, now they do as they like without fear of punishment at school or at home. If I went home and told my father I’d been caned he’d hit me again, fact is I don’t recall ever being caned at school and my father didn’t discipline me more than a couple of times because I knew where the line was. These kids have no barriers, just look at the kids running riot in our streets, no discipline at home = bad kids.
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Would it not be a good idea for schools to start introducing some simple rules and regulations that pupils must adhere to or risk facing the consequences?On my last visit to Jersey I noticed the standard of dress from some pupils from a certain school was appalling and every one of them was smoking.Several were swearing loudly and one girl spat in the road right in front of our car.These kids obviously have no standards or manners which should be taught by their parents but in the absence of decent parenting perhaps some rules laid down by the school might help them to gain a bit of dignity and self-respect.I know this is just a small point but if a school is not able to control its pupils at this level then no wonder some of them are totally out of control.
And why are details of attacks being hidden?
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There are a small number of schools in Jersey, which have similar issues to deal with to inner-city schools in London, I know this having taught in both. There are a great deal of dissafected students who attend State schools who cause an undeniable amount of stress to their teachers. It is true to say that there is a cover up (where have we heard that before..) There are many students who currently cannot cope with a ‘normal’ school day. There is little if any support from home, students are often out late at night and the idea of learning to improve their future prosperity for some is quite an alien concept. Not quite the ‘Children from Boden Land’ that one contributer wrote about teacher pay last week. There is a complete lack of realism from the States about just how troubled many of today’s young people are. I do hope that the scrutiny committee help those with power to recognise the problems teachers face and more importantly, recognise the diverse and chronic problems facing some of the youth of Jersey today. All that the states seem to ever care about is that we are 2 or 3 percentage points better of than the UK when it comes to results day, not about the prospects of each and every individual that enters the education system.
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How right Keith is #3. The rot started in the late 1960s early 1970s, when the debate on corporal punishment began. At present teachers are unable to use reasonable force to control students bad behaviour….imagine what it will be like if the authorities withdraw the right of parents to use minimal force?
Nobody wants to see children being physically abused, but corporal punishment should be permitted where there is no alternative.
At present we are giving in to the so called experts on child care; academics who tell us it is wrong to smack children. When will they realise, that much of the bad behaviour occurring today is occurring because teachers and parents are finding it almost impossible to their job?
Of course experts will cite what occurs elsewhere in Europe, where smaking has been totlally banned. Well that may work there, but the psyche of children in Britain is somehow different. WE need to review how we handle misbehaviour in Jersey, so that children and young people get a clear understanding of what is right and what is wrong.
If something isn’t done soon, the problems will just get worse.
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I didn’t think it would take too long for all the ‘let’s beat some discipline into the little brats’ brigade came out of the wood work. I was at school when it was legal to cane and I don’t remember it being much of a deterant. Hitting young people is as barbaric as allowing the police to beat up suspected & actual criminals. The solution is better teachers – lets face it we all remember teachers who commanded respect & those who had no respect from us & our peers – so we played up – regardless of whether it was legal to cane us or not.
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Hear hear ‘Blue Knight’ and Keith! It is high time corporal punishment formed part of the island’s school curriculum.
I call on the education department to formulate a disciplinary system which better reflects Jersey’s heritage and traditions, rather than this crypto-Marxist ideology imported from the mainland.
I suggest a carefully calibrated system of punishments, starting with the cane for miscreants in reception classes, right up to several lashes of the cat o’ nine tails for juvenile hooligans.
The worst offenders should be thrashed each Friday afternoon in front of their peers to set an an example, providing of course, that suitable medical assistance is on hand to ensure that no serious physical injury is caused.
Such a ‘world class’ disciplinary system would provide the island’s pupils with far more valuable and worthwhile lessons than claptrap such as sociology and media studies.
Proud Jerseyman
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Socialism
This is the fruits of the labour party. Sad but true. The state is all, from provider, parent and custodian.
As Cameron said in his conference speach. “We are a scociety that treat children like adults and adults like they were children”.
As my Dad said, “the whole world has gone mad”
“spare the rod and you will ruin the child” – Proverbs
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Did anyone watch the recent TV programme where two spoilt English teenagers went into a school in India?
Their attitude and behaviour were beyond belief.
However, I doubt if the Indian headmaster needed to use a cane. He could do the job adequately using words and looks.
Yes, the rot probably did set in during the 70′s
but more likely because they recruited just about anybody with a few exam passes in order to cope with “the bulge”.
Result: Schools full of “You can call me Dave” teachers. Is that really good for the pupils?
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#10 Your Indian analogy is a fairly simple one to explain and you see the results of it among young children being childminded by an ‘unknown’ quantity. They don’t know how far you’ll go and have enough uncertainty to decide behaviour is the better option.
Schools cannot do anything until parents start showing respect for teachers and start backing teachers when their child is in trouble. My parents would never speak badly about a teacher in front of me, it was only in adulthood that I found out that they disliked or didn’t approve of some teachers. If they believed a teacher had got it wrong they would speak to the teacher about it without our knowledge, but they never disrespected an authority figure in front of the children.
That’s the way it should be. Kids learn respect from their parents, if the parents don’t have it then neither will the kids, it’s fairly simple really.
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What really does command respect……anyone know…………?
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Why has one states school got such a high rate of suspensions compared to the others?? Is it because the school is too quick to withdraw/suspend pupils and in so doing this are they not breaking their contract with the taxpayers by not educating these children in accordance with the law? What happens to the kids that are supended – as we are aware a majority of parents (both married and single)work. What the school data does not state is the amount of secondry school children that drop out in year 10/11 and do not take any exams at all!! Teachers are not perfect, nor are the pupils!! Not every child fits into a box!!
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Same as the UK – to get benefits and housing you produce children. You then continue your lifestyle down the pub. This is the result.
There was a segment about the same thing in the UK on Radio 4 this morning. Teachers are unable to discipline children as they have the threat of being reported for ‘abuse’ over their heads all the time. Until teachers are allowed to deal with these litte thugs without their hands being tied by pc nonsense this is the result.
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There are comments amongst the above chain of entries about teachers commanding respect. I can recall a situation whereby my daughter was suspended from school for having too many ear rings. I was told by the Head Teacher, that she had been suspended for not complying with the shcool dress code. I then saw a pupil walk past the Head Teacher’s office and he had a Mohican hair style, which I knew was also in breach of the school dress code. When I queried why this boy hadn’t been suspended, the head Teacher had no answer and I was able to ‘negotiate’ my daughter’s return to school.
I had the feeling the reason the boy hadn’t been suspended was because his father was a senior politician in the Island. The Head Teacher had no cogent arguement against my theory.
Whilst I had little respect for that particular teacher concerned, I still feel that in the right circumstances teachers should be allowed to use minimal force.
I once had to use force on my daughter when she threatened to wreck my home, whilst she was in a teenage tantrum. She ran away and then the Social Services interviewed me and made me feel like a criminal even though my daughter had no bruises or physical injuries of any description. In addition to this, the police had no evidence to pursue a prosecution.
Thankfully my daughter has now grown up to be a respectable young woman and we have an excellent father / daughter relationship.
She never mentions how I once had to smack her – if I hadn’t done so, there was a real risk that my home would have been damaged.
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Kids of today are terrors and have no respect for their parent never mind there teacher plus the teachers are limited to what discipline can be handed out….I say bring back the corpal punishment and the kids won’t be long learing how to respect people and their teachers, all this child protection is going over the and above were kids take control and end up threating other older than them. Police won’t get involved as its to costly for them…..so come Goverment, work harder and smarter to put this right………Give teachers the right to discipline these thugs without fear…….
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Blue Knight# 6 Well said, I completely agree with all you points
Said as Seen #7, I was at school 1954 to 65.
I had the cane, ruler, hand across the backside etc a few times But only “once” for each different transgression .
I learnt from the pain not to do it again.
Some might disagree but I think I grew up to be a disciplined schoolchild and a reasonable normal member of the community who has never intentionally hurt anyone, I firmly believe corporal punishment paid its part in achieving this.
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Sadly this is a reflectionof all that is wrong with the world be live in today.
Children know their ‘rights’ and it seems teachers have few. If children were taught in the home to have respect for their elders it may alleviate the problem a bit, but of course there is always peer pressure to contend with.
Corporal punishment is not the answer at all. The message that sends out is that if physical abuse is ok for teachers/parents why not for kids too.
It is a shame that in this busy, stressful world maybe teachers/parents do not have time to sit down and talk with the children to ask them why they think their behaviour is acceptable, why they behave the way they do, and listen to them for a change. Teenage angst is nothing new, but its form has changed, sadly for the worse.
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You know we are not far behind the usa and the uk wont be too long before the schools are guarded and protected by police and security, not from intruders but the protection of teachers and pupils within. I have a friend in the uk teaches at primary level, he was teaching 5 year olds and these 5 year olds were already hurling abuse and foul language at their teachers.
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Theres a two sided story, the people who say children do not have enough rights and then the people that work with children and actaully know what goes on with children occasionally even going as far as threatening teachers with scissors and knives but not being able to do anything about it as the children have their rights.
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Said as seen # 7 Your comment on the “Let’s beat some discipline into the little brats” brigade coming out of the wood work seems a little over the top.
Nobody on this discussion board has advocated thrashing children. I hope that nobody in their right mind wants to see youngsters beaten unnecessarily, however teachers should have the ability to use minimal force, to defend other pupils and themselves, when children go completely off the rails.
I have seen a 14 year old girl in the U.K. smashing up shop windows and go absolutely beserk in the middle of the day. It took two burly coppers to restrain her. She was evidently high on drugs according to a subsequent newspaper report.
Don’t tell me that if a teacher was confronted with a situation like this, he / she shouldn’t be able to use force to help sort the problem out. How would you cope in that situation? Just stand there and twiddle your thumbs?
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Truthseeker 12
Re: What really does command respect……anyone know…………?
Knowledge! And the “capacity” to pass on that knowledge in a caring and interesting way.
Catch a child’s interest and you have the child’s respect AND admiration.
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I’m sure ‘Proud Jerseyman’ was joking up there. Worrying if not. In any school there will be troublemakers. Usually there will be other bigger, cleverer and sportier kids who keep them in check.
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truthseeker 12
probably not respect! but “fear” of corporal. punishment will do the job we want here.
Some of these yobs don’t even have self respect
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Leah #11
A very good and sensible post.
The police have exactly the same problems with protective parents. The youths should be made to realise that there is no-one to hide behind or play against. That everyone disaproves of bad behaviour.
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what a load of nonsense. pull yourself together.
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Personally I believe the issue on a person’s “rights” is deeply flawed. In plenty of cases when someone claims an infringement on their own rights it actually causes an adverse effect and ultimately infringes anothers rights.
If that didn’t make sense…then consider a burglar who breaks into a house, the owner may hold them captive until the police arrive (if they ever do) but will be accused of infringing the burglars right to leave freely. What about the home-owners “right” to live in his house without fear of burglary?
The vistims of any form of affray are punished in today’s society and the perpetrators are not….This is sick!
The teachers have a “right” to teach in suitable conditions and the kids have a “right” to education, but if one or the other abuses their rights then they should be punished or forfeit their education (which they will regret in later life).
If they grow up to be an adult without an education (by their own choice) then they should not be allowed to enter the benefits system………maybe workhouses should be re-introduced
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….education should be an incentive to improve a person’s working and life prospects.
If the kids do not want to be educated then the ones that do should not suffer because of this. Education should not be a right, but a privilege!
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#22 Respect is something that should be given to authority figures. Of course, it can be lost and, if so, it rightly needs to be earned back, but it should automatically be given from child to parent, child to teacher,…
Parents and teachers should not have to earn a child’s respect. It should be automatic and only need to be earned if the parent or teacher has done something to lose it.
However, for a child the respect is learned from their parent. If the parent disrespects the teacher in front of the child (even if this just means the way they talk about them at home) then the child will not learn to respect the teacher. My friend is a private tutor to kids who go to private schools and he says that the way some of the parents talk about teachers at home is appalling. They talk as if the teachers are beneath them because they aren’t rich! What on earth is that teaching the children?
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There are people who command respect from other people, who do not need to raise either a hand or their voice in anger to achieve order and direction in the people around them.
They are natural leaders and are sadly few and far between these days as it is always now assumed that they have to be top performers, and so it is then wrongly assumed that all top performers are natural leaders!
I was brought up by one such individual who could, if she wished, silence a crowded room and reduce the atmosphere there to sub zero temperature just by entering!
Respect is only received by those who give it!
It is important as a teacher to get across to disruptive pupils that the only person/s they are going to short-change are themselves.
There has been far too much outside interference in the classroom, quite a bit of it politically rather than socially motivated!
Very often disruptive classroom behaviour can be a sign of above average intelligence rather than the opposite, or signifying some social problem.
Teachers do need support from parents, and yes not all meetings between parents and teachers should involve the student.
There are questions the teachers can ask themselves in situations where a class or particular individuals are disruptive, abusive or threatening:
a)Is my teaching method for this subject interesting and challenging enough for this/these particular students?
b)Am I giving out negative vibes towards a certain individual or group?
c)Is there something in my attitude or approach that is being misinterpreted?
d)Is there a social or learning difficulty problem that is not being addressed?
In the end if the problem is the student then identify the ringleader/s and their particular problem.Try a one to one approach to resolve it from an angle of concern for that individual.
If that fails then refer the matter up and if you fail to get support go higher.
Too often it is easier these days for Head teachers, and School Governors, to blame staff rather than pupils in disciplinary matters.
A belligerent parent in the wrong should be stood up to and challenged to support their case with appropriate action, not just be caved in to!
If you think Jersey is unique then I will recount a story told to me by a friend who was student teaching in Canada in the 1970′s:-
One of his “Disruptive” pupils, sitting unusually near the front of the class, suddenly produced a very real looking Pineapple Hand Grenade, placed it prominently on his desk and began pulling out the pin!
Fortunately my friend had read the local paper the previous evening where a burglary had been reported where a number of such items, marked with a yellow stripe as “Dummy”, had been taken.
So he,unlike the rest of the form, sat tight albeit desperately straining to see if the thing had a yellow stripe on it.
In the end it was just him and the student in the room, and much to the student’s surprise, he just walked over picked up the grenade and put it in his pocket.
He then opened the classroom door into the corridor where the rest of the form were cowering, and carried on talking as he waved them back in, just as he had been before the whole incident started.
He then let the culprit sweat until the end of the lesson to find out what the retribution would be.
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corporal punishment may not be the way to go but as for the comment “barbaric” i think you should hang your head in shame! If you aren’t allowed to discipline your children as a parent or teacher then how on earth do you expect society to improve. I grew up in the 80′s and my parents smacked me when i was being a young miscreant – it certainly deterred me and as I grew up into a teenager and realised my rights and knew they couldn’t touch me i played up… alot… and it was only because social humiliation was still legal that my parents managed to get me under control!
The cane was not about physical abuse it was a method of naming and shaming in front of the whole school. I think if caning were introduced today the kids would be proud of it… what you need to do is put them in the stocks and throw fruit at them – it doesn’t hurt to body – just the pride…
to quote the movie wild child “when the head girl has earned my respect then I’ll shake her hand BEEYACH”
meaning it’s impossible to earn a wild child’s respect without taking away their own sense of self importance first.
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We should all remember our school days as they were, not how we percieve them to be from our adult perspectives. Leah Holmes, I have no doubt you were a model pupil, but come on you must of done some stupid things in your childhood which were borderline disrespectful to adults and teachers alike? No child on earth can say they have’nt taken something too far, or done something stupid – its all part of growing up.
I used to smoke drugs when I was a teenager, and listen to Punk music, I hated the world and adults telling me what to do. I got in with a wild crowd and we would throw parties in each others parents’ houses and do all sorts of things you’ve probably never even heard of, Leah.
Please corporal punishment is a barbaric system that is now extinct, and quite rightly so.
The teachers are to blame here, they need to get a backbone and recall their days as children, rather than sitting back and hiding behind the curriculum. A proper teacher gets respect from even the wildest teenagers, he or she can read between the lines and doesnt stand there with a monotonous tone reeling off sentences like a lifeless robot. Leah, if you were a teacher I think, given your high expectations and goody two-shoes attitude, you would fall within this group. I don’t mean to be rude to you, Im just trying to make a point, so apologies if I have upset you.
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Mrs Rosemary Bead (32)
Just out of interest, what eventually caused you to stop being a brat teenager who “hated the world and adults telling me what to do”, throwing parties in other’s houses and smoking drugs?
Presumably you don’t do that now so what caused you to grow up?
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Mrs Bead? I’m shocked! You were a teenage rebel ?
Seriously though I do not believe it’s entirely the teachers fault. They have no power left in the classroom. They cannot punish kids for misbehaving and the brats know that. If they did punish them they’d be hauled before the police no doubt answering abuse charges.
I’ve even heard of a teacher in England suspended because a pupil falsely accused them of abuse just because they didn’t get the grade they wanted in a test…..go figure!
These days teachers have been threatened or even physically assaulted (not just by the kids but by the parents too) and this happens on a regular basis……it was unheard of in my era.
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#32 sorry but nothing major at all!
I might have occasionally said something a bit cheeky, however I would soon know it and I would apologise. I got lines once
I didn’t always listen in class but since the teacher didn’t notice and I got my work done I can’t see that there was any harm done. That’s not remotely like what is going on now in schools!
Don’t get me wrong I detested school, I feel sorry for kids when I see them heading off in the morning, but I still don’t see any reason for the behaviour mentioned! It’s your own education (and potentially you’re own future) you’re putting at risk after all. I guess I was just smart enough to understand that teachers were just normal people and teaching us happened to be their job. I didn’t want my working life to be riddled with obnoxious brats so why would I put that on someone else!
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Rosemary Bead said this at number 32
“….you must of done some stupid things in your childhood…”
perhaps the teachers of yesteryear are to blame if that kind of grammar is anything to go by. Oh dear oh dear.
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#32, just read the last bit of your post just now (it was too long, touche!)
I’m no goody two-shoes by any means, but I learned a long time ago that it’s possible to fully enjoy life without ruining other people’s lives, so I choose that option.
I wouldn’t be a teacher, I’ve refused all sorts of begging letters and bribes trying to get me to teach. I wouldn’t teach because so many kids have useless parents that simply don’t care, and it shows in the kids.
My mum commanded respect, and my sister currently commands respect. That doesn’t mean they never get the new kid trying it on, and frankly I’d be too tempted to whack the brat AND its parents!
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Diane, I had a moment of clarity following an 8 day drink and magic mushroom bender. I found myself in a forest alone, just the wind blowing softly through the trees, the leaves rustling quietly. Only the distant cry of a squirral to interupt my thoughts. My senses were overwhelmed by the sound of nature and it was then, away from society and rules that I realised that to survive I had to become natural again. The following day I combed the punk spike out of my hair, took my nose rings out, and went to back to school. At school I found if you actually listened to the teachers you learnt things, like grammer and math e.t.c. It was a wonderful experience and eventually I went on to sit a degree.
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I would like to ask Mrs Bead what she would do in a situation when an angry father is threatening to smash her face in because she had to discipline his unruly son/daughter earlier in the day.
To blame teachers for the anti social behaviour of a few children when they are taught to behave in this way at home is just plain ignorant.
As I have said in previous posts, it will never seize to amaze me how some parents expect everyone else but themselves to take responsibility and bring their offspring up.
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“…like grammer and math e.t.c. … I went on to sit a degree.”
Heaven help us from today’s graduates!
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Violence in schools…could this not be a good example of the axiom..Lead by example
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#40 That’s what I was thinking.
To be educated today does not require proper spelling or grammar. When it comes to genuine conditions like dyslexia that’s a good thing, but unfortunately it encourages laziness amongst the rest. I’ve met so many adults who truly believed that apostrophes were really difficult, until I explained it to them.
I wonder if sometimes kids ‘give in’ and don’t listen in class because they’ve been told that a subject is “too difficult” or “irrelevant”. They are defeated before they even start and so they don’t bother to listen and actually find out for themself.
#38 Some of us must have had that epiphany at birth! I remember as a kid thinking that if I wanted something to happen it was up to me to make it happen, I never considered that someone else should provide all my opportunities for me. I wanted to study Medicine, so it was my job to get myself there. Part of our human make-up is the desire to learn, so is the problem that some kids are having it pulled out of them?
I ‘truanted’ a lot from the age of 14 onwards, which is technically bad behaviour I guess. But I used my time to rehearse with bands, write music or read medical books, I was bettering my own prospects rather than making life difficult for others. Since my grades didn’t suffer the school didn’t care.
As for the current day, I’m a thrill-seeker I guess, but I prefer an adrenaline rush type thrill to drugs.
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Mrs. Rosemary Bead 38.
Same name, different wind up!
It amazes me how anyone can take you seriously!
In your last life you were a kindly lady (R.I.P.) who wanted to turn Jersey into a larger version of Sark.
Now, you’re an ex-nightmare child, with a liking for punk music and a weakness for alcohol and magic mushrooms…oh, please!
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Why worry about grammar and spelling, soon we will be writing mobile ‘phone speak. R U Ok? Is this 4 u? etc. I imagine Geoffrey Chaucer would wonder at contemporary spelling and grammar – how many split infinitives have been used above submissions? “No other grammatical issue has so divided English speakers since the split infinitive was declared to be a solecism in the 19th century”.
If you raise the subject of English usage in any conversation today, many people won’t know what you a talking about. Surely the important thing is to get a message or point of view across and not worry about academic rules, which is reslly just being pedantic.
Just because someone’s grammar is poor, doesn’t mean they don’t have a valid point of view.
No end of corporal punishment will get rid of this debate.
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#43 Where would we be without her?
She could be telling the truth though, most of us have hidden depths and a ‘darker’ side.
#44 The examples you give are too simple to be confused. Unfortunately for statements that are not so basic punctuation really can help make your point, and imply the tone of your statement. I don’t really think we should be too pedantic but I do think we’re idiots to ignore such a simple method of aiding communication.
#39 & 41 Bang on! A relative gave up being a referee to primary school football due to the abuse he received from the parents! Society (in its entirety) needs to lead by example, but since that is unlikely to ever happen a kids’ parents will be their most important (and first) example. They need to set the boundaries early on.
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I think that the answer is simple. Attract better quality teachers. If you pay they will come. If you can’t do teach. Not true in all cases of course but a well founded maxim all the same.
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Leah # 45. They may be simple examples, but that’s all I know. (When you are an old timer like me, it is hard to pick up new ideas). I can see the value in such forms of communication and if we were able to see how people communicated in a 100 years time, I figure we wouldn’t recognise a lot of words and punctuation might have disappeared altogether.
This debate seems to have moved away from the point and that is teachers have a tough time controlling youngster’s behaviour. Maybe we need to look at how this is achieved elsewhere, as there is anecdotal evidence that bad behaviour is worse in the U.K. than other parts of the world. Why is this the case?
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#46 You will struggle to attract anyone (including the good quality teachers) until such times as schools are, once again, a place of education (i.e. we can leave law and order to the Police and the majority of discipline to the parents). I will gladly train to teach at college or university but there is not a hope in hell that I will ever take on any responsibility for other people’s undisciplined brats in a school teacher position. Life’s quite tough enough.
I don’t believe money is the main issue, I believe many potential teachers are put off by the lack of protection they receive. Consider how short you career could be simply due to a false accusation? Once an accusation’s made things cannot be the same. If it were up to me we would have CCTV in every room in schools so that no teacher can be falsely accused, as long as they keep their distance from pupils outside of school. It would also help with the issue of bullying.
I have the utmost respect for anyone who goes into school teaching these days!
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Leah Holmes 45.
Re: Where would we be without her?
You’re so right!
Mrs. Rosemary Bead can be very funny at times. But I cannot believe she’s for real after reading point 3. of her post (21) under “Laser vandal targets aircraft”…it’s hilarious, you should read it!
As for conforming to the rules of grammar…well, I can only agree to a point.
I think we should try to keep things “tidy” but we must avoid hypercorrectness, that is, if we wish to hold onto the informal tone of the thread
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