Budget: Big rises in duty
Tuesday 27th October 2009, 3:00PM GMT.
Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf unveiled the Budget at the Town Hall yesterday Picture: DAVID FERGUSON (00819396)
INFLATION-BUSTING duty increases and a freeze on tax allowances are proposed in next year’s Budget.
The 2010 Budget – Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf’s first – recommends duty rises of almost 10% on tobacco and fuel, and future rises to UK levels over the next four years on cigarettes and alcohol. And it proposes freezing tax allowances, which will pull more low earners into the tax net.
The duty increases proposed are:
• Fuel up 9.8%, raising £1.5m.
• Tobacco up 9.7%, raising £900,000.
• Alcohol up 6.2%, raising £700,000.
Other proposals include removing a tax exemption for UK pension funds that could raise around £3m for the taxman.
‘There is no doubt that Jersey is in recession and we expect that to continue for a number of months,’ said Senator Ozouf. ‘While we are in a strong position we should not be complacent.
‘The Budget does propose that, responding to the concerns of the Health and Home Affairs ministers, additional money for Health should be funded by increases in duty on alcohol and tobacco. There will be a discussion on bringing those to the level of the UK over the next three or four years.’
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So according to our illustrious Treasurer, we will see a rise in taxation over the next few years to UK levels. Interesting. This kind of statement endorses the widely held view that many States Members don’t live in the real world.
If the good Minister had actually ever been shopping, and carried out a comparison UK / Jersey, he would have a rude awakening. Prices here, in general, have been considerably higher for sometime, as the rank and file populous could have told him.
The States cannot keep squeezing more and more money out of our dwindling pay packets, wages are not increasing at the rate taxes are being hiked up.
There has to be a major rethink how monies are raised, and more importantly how it is spent. An annual budget in excess of £700 million is mind boggling amount of money to be spent on a 9 by 5 rock.
I ask the politicians to put their finances in order before asking the tax payer to foot the snowballing Sates spending.
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Thank God for that, I thought for a minute that he was going to tax the rich. Thankfully only those of us already under the cosh will suffer. How can he put up the cost of essentials like petrol when none of us have had a pay rise this year.
If this government weren’t so incompetant we wouldn’t need the revenue, we are paying for their mistakes.
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its ok to put up more tax on the fags and booze but if people stop usuing there wont be any more cash coming in
one day this future CM (god help us) will come up with some original ideas…I wonder how long it took him to work the budget increases out..it must of been on a back of a fag packet!!!!!!!!!!!
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so yet again they want to increase spending and hence raising taxes
we used to be low tax low spend government which worked we had a great standard of living but they keep wanting to grow states spending over inflation.
Stop increase states spending for every pound they tax and spend we only get about 75% value.
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Once again a wondeful idea comes from the mouth of a moran!! Constant increases in tax is not what we need right now…hows about spending on necessities rather than on a load of rubbish!!!
*Mistershifter* i couldn’t agree more!! I think the states need to get control of there free spending and get a grip!! How are we to do anything when all our money is spent on tax and gst and fuel and what ever else they come up with next!! Sack’em all!! Get someone who can actually count and who has some sort of idea what the hell they are doing to take there place!! Its beyond a joke!!
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What planet is this man on? Does he really believe that in a recession he can just increase taxes without consequence in order to allow the States to continue their profligate ways? I don’t know about the rest of you but the time has come where we need to show some solidarity and unity regarding the disgraceful waste of funds we entrust to our illustrious elected members. If the States were really interested in balancing the books they would not throw our money away on having misleading granite signposts made and installed; change names and telephone numbers of departments at a whim with consequential costs for re-printing stationery etc., and now suggesting changes in speed limits which will necessarily require provision of new road signs etc. If we allow ourselves to continue to be dictated to then we deserve what we get. Come on people, we need to do something about this NOW!
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They won’t stop spending however …….
Jersey is going to have to cut back, like the UK is going to after the election. Unfortunately we are not going to have an election on 2010.
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I agree with the statement of the need to get the house in order however I like everything about this article. We choose to drink and smoke against our better knowledge. Driving is killing the planet. I tried the bus today and found it very plesant. The 20 min stroll from the bus stop won’t be happening on rainy days but thats a long way from every day. I know many will say I can’t… but a lot could but bone idle + status etc creps in.
We might as well get used to tax levels on the base price of goods being UK levels as if we continue to do what the EU want at the rate we are Jersey will be part of the EU by 2020.
I for one think that to be a good thing!
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Well he better get ready for standard of living to come down, and along with that an increase in crime, and of course more income benefits.
PErhaps the costs of the States members themselves shoudl be put under review, and the number of advisors, and numbers of states members there are.
All vote for a smaller government to the people who propose to ensure this follows through within their election manifesto.
No increase in taxes – reduced government spending instead!
Business Leader
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The big O has finally been told to say that Jersey is in a recession…. for a number of months. Get real Senator.
As per the policies of the Tory(rich) party it is a case of tax the poor so as to leave the rich as unscathed as possible.
Three ways to raise more tax from those in a position to pay.
1. Take the cap off of social security contributions.
2. Tax everyone on the same rate i.e. 20 means 20.
3. CGT on all property except a person’s main residence with immediate effect.
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Does any body in the States live in the real Jersey world!!!
We’ve said goodbye to farming/agriculture. now say goodbye to tourism, all in the name of the MONEY GOD!!!
One year eleven months two weeks four days ’til i’m gone!!!
The only consolation my local pension will buy a damn site more in the UK!!!
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How reassuringly different.
It’s really good to know that our economy is in the hands of someone capable of such innovative thinking.
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Interesting. I recently worked out what my tax bill would be in the UK compared to over here and the difference was minimal. This difference will surely now become negligible.
I really am struggling for reasons to stay in this island.
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OK, so let’s waste £40M on local construction projects and Jersey Finance and then hey ho in the next breath say there is a recession and claw back the wasted expenditure from the island inhabitants, deepening, extending and widening the recession.
This is economics gone mad and a guaranteed disaster, as to quote the Minister as above “future rises to UK levels” we should now expect.
By 2013 our taxes will probably be cheaper if we were part of the UK, and if that decision was made before we could all save on medical insurance if we needed serious treatment now.
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Same as uk?
The prices are already dearer than the UK
lets have a level playing field and bring food and utilities the same price as uk.
Put tax on fuel for boat owners,long overdue in my opinion,and while we,re out it,tax the rich to such an extent they will be forced to leave,and then prices will come tumbling down.
a bit drastic i know,but we were much better before these tax dodgers settled here.
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adrian(10) here here.
fuel up / costs more to run a service business.
vans, trucks, and taxis, ect.
booze up , less people in the pub, execept weekends, more drinking at home.
fags, maybe some will pack it in, maybe not.
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How about a (line in the sand) or along Victoria Avenue in support of getting rid of this useless C M
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Mogit Posted October 27, 2009 at 4:38 pm !Does any body in the States live in the real Jersey world!!!!”
Thats a really good question actually because obviously 17 of them last week wanted to get salary increases for states workers but couldn’t tell us where the money was coming from!!!!
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We are in recession and the Treasury Minister is boosting taxes.
Prices will rise, more Internet shopping and shop closures plus more militancy from States workers, maybe even some of the banks will consider upping sticks and moving somewhere that rents, wages and the general cost of doing business are less exorbitant.
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All I can say is… NO!
GST was for 0 – 10. But 0% corporation tax is not going to happen, so why do we need to do this?
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You would not need to be a treasury minister,or an economist…to see as pointed out so well that the flagrant spending is the cause of our troubles….and if you had to put a tax premium on things WHY would you put 10% on Petrol and cigs. you have to get about but sure don’t need to smoke…how could that possibly be construed as fair to make ‘em the same, the same politicos get all indignant and prissy when told they are on another planet…well they certainly are on another pay point and that is where the ” I’m alright Jack ” thinking comes from….they then gather around to comfort each other and say stuff like “The punters simply don’t understand” well we DO mate …all too well…which is why the average man does not want to be represented by you, and yes it’s the working man’s own fault……get out there and VOTE next time…c’os the Toff’s will.
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Far too early to be raising taxes here given we are in a recession. Its likely to finish here later than the UK because of our dependence on the worst hit (most to blame) sector, namely Finance. We need to be running down reserves for at least another year and then maybe think about certain targeted tax rises.
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#mogit. lucky you,wish i was in the same position as you.
Something tells me this is exactly what they want.
more locals leaving,more new imigrants,this way they can pay them slave wages and the fat cats will get fatter and the poor will be treated as their lackeys.
going back to the dark ages comes to mind.
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ACTION IS NEEDED!!!
It’s about time the population marched on the Royal Square to show our disgust otherwise nothing is going to be done and we will constantly be fleeced to cover their mistakes.
I am not a natural leader but willhappily follow anyone who will to rise against these imbeciles.
But we want a significant number of people to demonstrate not just a few…..perhaps a Facebook Group can be created to organise this event on a large scale……more people use Facebook than This is Jersey.
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Duty free, home brew and cycling for all.
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I was sure that the paragraph which says ‘which will pull lower earners into the tax net’ was a misprint surely it should read ‘high earners’!!! I hope he is willing to gamble losing many hardworking people who will leave this island in the not to distant future, myself included. Once again the rich are untouchable and to be honest I am fed up subsidising the better off who live here, they will be able go for the expensive drinks and nice meals while I go to work, pay the taxman and go home every night to wake up to another dreary day. Well done Ozouf, keeping going the way you are and you will be nothing more than a distant bad memory.
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My how things change in a year! At the last hustings certain people thought Jersey was in a very good position. It looks like reality is finally breaking into their thoughts.
If things carry on as they are I can only see one possible outcome. The poorer levels of society being forced out and replaced with more rich people looking to save money. Foreign workers will be brought in for any jobs that need doing.
The States will then be able to privatise what public services are left as there will be few States jobs left to service a reduced population. As most permanent residents will be rich there will be no need for the volume of services we have at present.
Finance will leave anyway as they aren’t beholdent to anyone and will want to maximise profit margins, thats if the EU or others don’t get them out first.
Economies of scale will mean places like HK getting work from overpriced areas like Jersey for example. How long before HK finance workers do as good a job if not better than those here? The major benefit is cost savings in wages and materials, and the fact that most HK nationals are fluent in more than one language, unlike their counterparts in the English speaking world, many who struggle to speak and write in their own language, let alone another.
Our current woes sit firmly and squarely with the CoM and no one else. The financial sector world wide is to blame for this economic meltdown. Our local sector is but an offshoot of this global monster that is consuming everything in its path.
To recap, I expect a continued deterioration in Jersey’s living standards for all but the rich and all/most of the CoM’s decisions to be made for the benefit of finance and the rich. Prices to keep rising, wages to stay the same if not even fall due to economic woes, as big business use this as an excuse to cut wages and conditions when they can.
More residents to be forced out as they will be unable to live over here. With the decline or removal of finance this is bound to be exasibated. Jersey will then be left to get on with things as best it can. As it is not in the EU it will be unable to get any financial help from them. Mind you if most of the remaining residential population were to be rich it mightn’t matter too much.
Neither might it matter too much if the planet suffers an ecological collapse due to over exploitation and excessive greed. Then the writing will truely be on the wall for everyone. However there will still be those who persist in keeping their heads in the sand, and thinking yes everything will turn out alright because they don’t believe in such things!
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Some of the comments on here are hilarious.
The politicians need to live in the real world???? Yep, and so do some of the posters on here.
Militancy from States workers?? Yeah, a right bunch of Derek Hattons, I don’t think.
Jersey income tax virtually the same as the UK?? Do me a favour, who pays 40% on this island??
I don’t agree with the Minister’s proposals – I entirely agree that it seems unfair the rich don’t shoulder any extra burden – but you only have yourselves to blame, If you don’t vote, then don’t complain.
BS Deluxe – I wouldn’t get your marching boots out just yet!!!
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BS Deluxe (24) – Please, please be in the Royal Square on Monday 2nd at 11 a.m. where there will be a rally for all those who are totally disillusioned with everything that is wrong with this Island and its government to attend and have a voice and a show of strength.
These latest budget proposals will totally destroy the ordinary working class families, those who have to budget and make cuts and sacrifices week in and week out, an example the States should be following.
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blimey no wonder we are in a mess, nobody can spell here
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As I have mentioned before, increased road transport taxes were addressed by Frank Walker who incresed fuel duty from 16p per litre to the current levels of 40p or so. So this matter has already been addressed, Mr Ozouf !
His policies do not realy affect thouse like myself who dont pay rent, and whose monthly mortgage payments are minimal. What they do do is increase the cost of living for thouse younger members of society who are starting out, paying either high rents, or large mortgage payments.
While it is often said that we must preserve the planet for future generations, increasing the tax burden on the next gernation does not seem fair to me
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ha! ha! love the comments from Dave about duty free ,cycling and home brew. I already duty free it for ages now on day trips,200 cigs in me bag, 200 down me pants,400 in someone elses pram ,200 down me friends overcoat…i dont drive i walk or cycle . Not much of a drinker so that can go up all it wants ,great comments from Bella too always enjoy your comments.
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oh and shop on the internet all the time to! only thing i buy over here is food.
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bella your right about the price of cigs, they are more expensive here already…what,s he talking about 4 years time match the uk price???????????? 10 royals uk price £2.20 thieving jersey price £2.52
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‘Duty free, home brew and cycling for all.’
That just about sums it up!
1) Duty free
Most of the smokers I know have not bought a packet in the island for ages. They rely on friends and relatives bringing in the duty free.
2) Home brew
Plenty of home brew shops on the Internet that will ship to the island!
3) Cycling
This will certainly impress the Chinese millionaires when they come to visit. They will love the fact that Jersey is just like China in the old days with the population on bikes. Maybe we could get a special deal on Ozouf suits to make all the bankers look the same!
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At present three of four in this house work and pay tax. The other is seeing us fleeced by an uncaring Jersey hierarchy who, despite acknowledging and setting a ‘statement of special needs’ for the younger child (sight disability), refuse to support him as he seeks to train in the UK to remain independent in the future, and so cost the States less money (he has also worked FT for two years and paid taxes). As a UK student he would have ALL fees paid; here, each department say it is not their area. So, we are forced to pay 36k per year to support his education and support, to ensure that he can remain independent and not a burden upon society in the future. Then, to help us, the States talk of extra taxes, no pay rises and expect us to simply accept this as they allow some businesses to make higher profits with less tax. I really wish that Sen. Ozouf had been forced to work for a living for a number of years, without rich parents to support him, and realise that power comes with responsibility. He is a man of intelligence, but lacks a real understanding of how so many live.
Why do we stay here? At present it is because of the investment in time, energy and money. Should we continue to do so? Sen Ozouf and his colleagues need to decide what they really want; an exasperated and increasingly worried set of tax payers, or, UK financiers who make rapid money fro five years and move on
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Not only are the duty hikes going to hit you directly but i use an awful lot of lorries to deliver stuff to various places on the island, a fuel duty mark up of that magnitude will be passed on by the company that delivers the stuff to me – that wll then be fully passed on to the consumer!! Perhaps the states should look at its own budgets before looking at the hard pressed tax payer. I bet anyone from the private sector could go through the states accounts and save tens of millions a year without even trying.
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BS Deluxe 24
I wish you all the best in your campaign, because it is to the advantage of all!
I only hope you do better than I did when I posted the following comment on 11th August 2009:
…call for a “A STAND”, which just entails contacting our friends on facebook and getting a “serious” petition going (the tom-tom method is instant and friends can SHARE the message).
Out of all those who commented against the “New plan for high-rise flats at the Waterfront”, only ONE person responded to the call…good old TRUTHSEEKER!
Mind you, this time we’re talking cigarettes and booze, so you might be on a winner!
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Never mind the so called threat to the island from the EU ,Phil and his highly paid band of ” advisors” seem to be doing a good job of ruining it all on their own. If i could sell my house i would be off tomorrow !!!
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“Future rises to UK levels” That really made me laugh!You can certainly drink at my local pub in the UK cheaper than in Jersey and what with discounts available and Tesco giving petrol vouchers on a frequent basis I doubt there is much difference in the price of that either.Cigarettes are more expensive but then nobody I know smokes so I don’t worry about that!The man in the street seems to understand how expensive it is to live in Jersey yet the politicians still remain clueless- I wonder why??!!
To Mogit (comment 11) I have no idea what your personal circumstances are but if you are intending to relocate to the UK when you retire are you aware you can take your Jersey pension at 63 for a reduced sum?My husband has opted for this as he has worked out the figures and it is a good option.Enjoy life while you can is our motto and we are enjoying it here in rural England!!
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@Tony # 20
“…GST was for 0 – 10. But 0% corporation tax is not going to happen, so why do we need to do this?…”
To pay for public services; don’t forget that although you may think the 0% corp. tax isn’t happening because 0/10 is being reviewed, what we don’t yet know is what the outcome will be. And by the same logic you could say that the 10% side of that equation also isn’t happening, which leaves us even more in need of funding for those public services.
“…All I can say is… NO!…”
And therein lies part of the problem; While I also would like to say ‘NO!’ to paying more taxes, I have to be realistic and recognise that I do want those public services, and can’t really just say NO! without offering an alternative.
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States Members really do not have a clue do they?
It’s clear they want more rich low-tax seeking types coming into the island and those of us that actually care about the island out, but they don’t understand the consequences of filling an island with people that simply don’t care one single bit about it.
Well the consequences are that more and more people just do what they want and totally ignore the effect it has on the other inhabitants. Basically, they don’t care if they ruin the place because once it gets bad enough they have enough money to up and leave. Those who actually care are left here to suffer the consequences.
The best thing for any land is filling it with people that actually care about it, NOT people who are just looking to save an extra penny in every pound.
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Jersey is in a reccession and by increasing drinks, cigs and fuel isn’t going to clean up the current problem, the elderly will suffer as the fuel prices are crazy and Jersey is just ripping people off…do you actually sit down as a team and review things in a professional manner as I don’t think you could organise a p up in a brewery…..worrying the way Jersey is looking at the mo……the rich are getting richer and poor are getting poorer….when is common sense going to kick in with you state members………
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I think we should start a petition to present to the States asking them for accountability and for better value for our money NOW.
There is a massive disparity between raising taxes and the blunders, errors and waste of money that goes on in the States. We seem to throw our tax funds away on this Island.
Like any company the Shareholders demand a complete overhaul of the board of directors (states members) now and some outside scrutiny from an expert panel to get rid of the chaff in the states once and for all, get rid of the old boys hand under the table network, and make the states accountable for their mistakes NOW.
Why should we, the public, pay for the regular and ongoing mistakes of the States? Stand up and be counted!
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#Deputy dog
My brother lives in london and can get a pint of beer much cheaper than here and london is one of the dearest places in the world.
he was over in the summer and coud,nt believe how much everything had gone up in a year.
As he brings his car i give him a long list of goods to bring me,and is much cheaper and better quality than here.
These get rich quick merchants and shysters will lose out as soon as inflation kicks in even more and more. people will say enough is enough and sling their hook
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I thought the whole focus was supposed to be on reviving and diversifying the economy?
Where do any of these measures tackle those objectives?
Fuel tax up? The Island should be moving more and more towards small fuel efficient vehicles and electric cars anyway!
Tobacco and drink? Well the health fanatics and tea-totalers will be ecstatic but I thought tourism was one of those industries we were trying to revive?
Why are we trying to bring our taxes in line with those of the UK? What do we possibly have to gain from that?
If we spent Public funds more wisely on projects that would not only diversify our economy but create new industries with new jobs that would produce a return for the Island maybe we would not need to incinerate these old chestnuts!
Too much money is being wasted on outside consultants!
There needs to be some money spent on progressive projects that will produce a sustained return for the Island either in money, new jobs or some asset that will improve the Island’s infrastructure or appeal
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**Bob Fleming**
I did the same calculation on Jersey cost vs UK cost including tax, social, property, utilities etc and found that all in all I will be better of by several hundred pounds per month. It is only those earning £100k+ that see the real benefit or those lucky enough to get free accomodation.
Salaries are no longer higher for most roles above basic admin. positions and I have recently noticed that the UK are paying equivalent or higher, even outside of London.
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The Treasury Minister seems to be getting a lot of the blame here when he is in fact the messenger of reckless Minister and Deputy spending (e.g. Town Park). I see the original agreed budget proposed was added to the tune of £20m by some of the back benchers… they’re the ones to blame here for this increase on liability to the working man – they’re the ones you should be blaming.
Mogit #11
Living in the real world would mean accepting the fact that both agriculture and tourism contribute 10% of what finance does per capita and are insignificant contributors to the economy.
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I’ve just been to manchester where 2 pints of larger cost just over £4.00, in jersey the same 2 pints cost £5.50!
I don’t understand why there will be a discussion on bringing alcohol costs to the level of the UK over the next three or four years.
Is it just me or….
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Now this IS interesting-from 09/10 the UK rate of income tax will be 20% up to a maximum income of £37k when it then becomes 40%, allowances are £6965 as a married couple and £2440 as savings income.
Based upon these figures an income of £30k would mean £4120 income tax payable ! something wrong somewhere!!!
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An overhaul of the welfare system is what is needed to find extra funds….!!!
I work, pay social, pay tax and rent my own place.
I cant afford a new £400 iphone, a new car on a monthly rental agreement and neither does the Government offer to furnish my flat, yet clearly if you are an unemployed single mother with one child in school these are staples of what my tax money pays for !!
Yes, I am aware that this ‘may’ not be typical, but its not unusual to say the least….
Alternatively lets fine the numpties who didnt think to agree a fixed currency contract when dealing with the new incinerator…Am sure the proposed increases coming out of our pockets have something to do with the 5.4m loss arising from that !!!
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This is a good budget, we need more tax on vehicles as they are clogging up the roads! Traffic in the morning looks simply horrendous.
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Why hold a demonstration at 11am on a Monday when people are at work? surely more people would turn up if it was at 1pm?
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joker, Ozouf is one of the clique responsible for this mess. They are the ones who are responsible for taxes on the ordinary person going up. They are also responsible for the fiscal failures over the last 20 years. To try and blame those who are people orientated is disingenious and petty.
Sorry but I have no confidence whatsoever in the CoM to look after the ordinary resident of Jersey, as many of them are either rich, or businessmen, so have no real understanding of the lower socio-economic strata’s woes. Their tendencies will therefore be towards the rich and big business. How can it be otherwise? Why would they bring in any taxes that may cause themselves, or their contacts, to incur extra expense? It is generally accepted that people tend to look after their own interests first before those of others. If they can get away with pushing the burden onto another group they will won’t they? This doesn’t make it right or fair though.
What is this £20M extra that you say is a result of the backbenchers having their way?
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Once again let’s tax the ordinary working man in the street, I drink very little; don’t smoke, so really this should be an excellent budget for me. As the Powers that be suggest you are all very, very naughty!! for drinking and smoking so we will put up the prices to discourage you from this pleasure in life. Far from it, putting these prices up will only discourage you to stop buying other goods hence less revenue for our retailers who then pay less tax on their profits.
I am no economist, however I do have an A’ level in the subject if truth be known.
I can tell you one thing that you don’t during a recession increase stealth taxes, this 4p on petrol is a complete joke and is just a figure that has been pulled out thin air, even Gordon Brown when he was Chancellor would not have the put on such an amount in one go. To Quote; Stealth taxes can be viewed as regressive as more affluent people are less affected by the GST or in this case increased fuel duty.
For those who don’t have a dictionary at hand the word Regressive describes a tax system in which those with low incomes pay proportionally higher taxes than the wealthy.
If we do look at petrol, as in my case and this is probably the lowest figure, I fill up twice a month at about 35 litres a time, with the increase this then equates to £2.80 a month or £33.60 a year to be exact. Now I am not stupid man and can see the looming mess we may be in shortly but there needs to be another way as we cannot keep hammering the less well off in our Island. In the scale of things if another 4p on petrol keeps the health service a float that’s fine by me however, it’s not only at the pumps we will be paying, oh no this will lead to:
• Increased bus fares
• Increased taxi fares
• Increased freight charges
• Increased food prices – this is the main one as we need transport to transfer the goods.
• Increased clothing prices
• Increased restaurant prices
• Increased utility prices – gas, electric and heating oil
• Increased postage
• And the list goes on and on and on
Basically an increase on fuel pushers everything up in price as each Company that trades on the Island will pass on the increase in one way or another. This then leads to an increase in the rate of inflation, increase in wage demands etc.
As I have said I am no economist but surly in these economic times the Government should be encouraging people to spend their way out of recession, this may sound strange to some people but instead of increasing Stealth tax they should in fact be lowering the duties. People in general do want to spend and have new things, cars, furniture, household goods holidays etc, etc this is what keeps the economic wheels turning, Less money in our pockets will discourage us from spending on luxury goods as economists would class these items.
I am sorry to say the Treasury Minister may have it wrong on this one and I urge him to take a look at his policies. Every country in the Western World has been giving out incentives for people to start spending again, but here we are bagging on more taxes. In fact not sure if it is still going on but in Australia the Government were actually sending a percentage of their population a cheque out each month, not sure how many dollars but this was in an attempt to get people spending again and the wheels back in motion so to speak.
I am sure the Minister is doing his best in these very difficult times, but come on sir let’s put a smile back on the faces of the people here in Jersey who are less fortunate than others and are not on the average 30k! a year wage, I can tell you I am not and there are many more people who are just keeping their heads above water. Not just talking about the very low earners here who may be eligible for income support but the many people who just fall out of this bracket.
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Come on people of Jersey don,t be shy…time for street demos and riots etc.. time to rebel and stuff!
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I suggest you all take a look at today’s Guardian newspaper website – the UK government has told tax havens – that’s Jersey amongst others – that they have to put up their taxes, no handouts from the UK.
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#Agree.56
The people of jersey seems to have lost their spirit.
They should take a leaf out of frances book and down tools at the slightest hint of aggro from bosses.
I am a rebel,always have been and will always stick up for the underdog.
Not liked by bosses and the holier than thou brigade of course.
They prefer fence-sitters and yes men.
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As in England, it looks as if it is the ordinary working folk on the Island that will be bearing the cost of this recession, brought on by the irresponsible gambling activities of the fat cat bankers and financiers, except judging by Philip Ozouf’s budget it looks like the Islanders will be hit sooner and harder by these regressive tax proposals, than the Brits. So soon in fact that it may well cut off Jersey’s economic recovery before it even starts.
I am afraid the prospects for Off-Shore tax havens, world wide, do not look good with the increasingly hostile approach of G20, EU, and even the UK.
It is essential that the Island looks at means of diversifying its economy as much as possibe, as a matter of extreme urgency, and not rely so much on financial services alone.
It may be poor consolation, but Britain itself is lagging behind much of the world in recovering from this recession, due to its own over reliance in the finance srevice industries.
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To all the hard working average Jersey Beans who are buckling under the destructive weight of Jersey’s decision makers.
There is a big world outside Jersey, which will welcome you with open arms and with a good standard of living. I say this as a disillusioned Bean who left Jersey 6 years ago to escape the plundering that the Vikings would have been proud of. I, like so many others who have departed our shores, have no intention of returning.
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Adrian
You need to look at whose voted for what and only have to look at backbencher squabbles to see who’s being petty… like the row over sandwiches when the real world is talking about how to cover fiscal deficits. Not quite £20m (but not far off either) of you’re back bencher nice to haves…
Southern: £10m for the town park but it will be more like £15m once they’ve sorted out where all the cars are going to go and once the project has overrun etc.
Labey: £500k for eastern cycle track
Fox £1m to deal with Bellozanne orders based on a handful of signatures
About £1m in other amendments… just check out the website.
How many Minister’s put forward huge unecessary spend requests? Answer: None.
All this when the public are crying out for spending cuts and not tax increases.
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WE ARE ALL DOOMED …
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Ozouf: £337,000 makeover for the cycle track along the Avenue.
All this when the public are crying out for spending cuts and not tax increases.
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@Jersey Boy
Not the most helpful comment but if you do want to cut traffic in the morning its simple – BAN THE SCHOOL RUN, IF I ever decide to go into politics that will be high on my agenda – businesses waste an awful lot of time and money becuase people can’t be bothered to let their kids walk/Cycle/take the bus to school. And before u all moan at that time of the day my lorries are trying to deliver food that feeds the island. Cut pollution and cut traffic at teh same time WIN – WIN. And yes I would put on more buses for the school kids
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#44 for once we totally agree
#58 Glad to hear it, we need more people like you. I have no issue for fighting for what I believe in and I believe that Jersey has a mickey mouse democracy!
States Members are both servants and leaders! They seem to entirely forget the first and, as for the latter, they seem to confuse ‘leader’ with ‘autocrat’. A leader leads, and this should include leading by example!
Regardless of whether you believe Jersey has a true democracy or not, it is extremely clear that there is a lot unrest in Jersey, but unfortunately there is also a lot of apathy. Let’s get rid of apathy and actually start making our leaders properly accountable to us. Roll on Monday.
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#53 Ted, so make it 1pm!
#29, is it possible to make it 1pm? is there a website telling people about it?
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No one likes budgets, but living in the UK I am enviable of people who live on Jersey.
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(55) pgw, this is the way i see it also.
has anyone noticed the vanishing spar shops in town?
why have they pulled the plug?
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To Peter (comment 67)Have you actually lived in Jersey at any time? I did for many years and am definitely financially better off now in England.Always feel sorry for people wanting to stay there but struggling to survive with the high costs of housing,food,utilities etc etc.
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How much of the tax on fuel is used for roads ?
If the tax is really an emissions duty after all, then it should be passed on to boats and aircraft, compared to how much is used on Jersey roads boats and planes must contribute more to global warming
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I also agree, we wouldn’t be paying this if the States had got there act together and stop giving stupid amounts of money to stupid ideas. Do they really think the Jersey public are stupid! they are treating us like we are.
Do states members not travel? or are they just putting there heads in the sand, Its true and proven that it is a lot cheaper to live in the uk (london)! My sister moved there many years ago and said she would never come back to Jersey its too expensive. If some states members had to run there own buisnesses they would have gone bancrupt very quickly. its even worse when you think its our hard earned cash.
And regarding people saying the fuel tax is a good idea because of global warming, we have to do first is stop China, India, Russia, America and England building coal generators, were getting the blame for something we have no control over, even if we all stopped using cars here there would be no impact what so ever and this has been proven by the european emissions regulator! it takes over 1 million cars to produce the same carbon emissions as 1 coal powered generator makes in 6 months. If one large volcano errupts anywhere in the world it can spew out more carbon, Sulphur, Methane, lead and many more harmful gasses into the atmosphere. It would take every car, power station and home in world 50 years to reach those levels, so to blame Jersey for carbon emissions is silly. and people that hark on about it need to get into the real world not a government manufactured one of panic and taxes.
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@ james e #71
I agree with some of what you say on the global impact of Jersey’s contribution to saving the planet by taxing emissions to reduce global warming, but I don’t agree that because it won’t help doesn’t mean a principled view is worthless. In addition to principles, I think that reducing the unnecessary use of fossil fuels locally can’t be a bad thing from a import/export trade POV.
Most importantly however(to me) is not the global environmental impact, but the local; the banning of smoking in the work place has been shown to have had a far greater (positive) impact on health than was expected, imagine if a similar improvement in health could be achieved by a reduction of pollution from vehicle emissions. Not to mention the quality of life from a move to electrically powered vehicles that run virtually silent.
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You cannot argue with the fag and booze tax increases, its a joke they’re not taxed MORE heavily as dependency (and as we all know jersey has its fair share of alcoholics) simply ruins lives. Since the smoking ban started in the UK and Ireland, very few people, not even the majority of smokers, would go back to the old ways. If higher tax = less smoking, and raises more tax, then I’m all for it. To tax fuel in an island economy is, i will admit, very stupid and shows a lack of real thought.
A few additional calculations for Mogit and crew to help inclue all the hidden charges.
1) Gotta include National Insurance = 12.8% (its basically income tax), all in :-
At £50k you pay 28% total tax in UK
At £25k you pay 23% total tax in UK
At £100k you pay 35% ditto etc
2) Council tax. On a £500k house (thats a nothing hovel in London) you pay upto £5000/yr in some boroughs, yes £5000k/yr!
3) Parking/Travel cost – council charge/parking tickets/congestion charge/or tube ticket every day. I reckon $3k a year net of fuel/insurance.
This is for 2009…. from next year VAT in UK will be going up to 17.5%, the rich tax will be 50% and national insurance will also be going up. Believe me lower tax levels will also have to go up when reality sets in.
Bottomline – If you earn less than £10k a year and live in a tent and DONT smoke or drink and dont own a car, then YES you will be better off living in the UK, so go for it.
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Interesting comments #73. Cost of living in parts of the UK are horrendous (That’s the nice areas where there is well paid work and low crime!)
The majority of UK residents seem to scrape by on low wages. Thouse who seek higher paid work often spend 4 hours a day commuting.
I could certainly not afford to live in the UK myself. For me, Jersey is great; It’s not perfect but where on earth is ?
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Jersey Boy
That 12.8% national insurance in the UK is only up to £44k , 1% after that. Also a bit unrealistic to use the £500k house figure to compare to Jersey. Compare the cost of a nice 3 bed house in a south east town/village ( a much more valid comparison between Jersey and London) with minimal garden (jsy standard) and more like £350k and council tax around £2400 a year, a long way from your figure.
Food shopping at Tesco/Asda, getting on for 50% cheaper than what we pay over here.
Travelling costs can be high but then you have the option of commuting in from the countryside to the main towns and can benefit from much cheaper housing as a result.
Mortgage rates generally cheaper than here as much more competition.
Many more tax breaks than over here. All your earnings up to £250k a year can be offset against tax in a pension. No ISA’s over here.
Big ticket purchases much cheaper such as cars.
Lots more I could mention but you get the picture.
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Apologies for the length of this post!
#10 Adrian: ‘Tax everyone on the same rate i.e. 20 means 20.’
You want to abolish the marginal rate of tax? This would lead to the very poorest in society paying a lot more tax.
#13 Bob Fleming
Really? See my calculation below.
I agree with #28 TB except that, since the UK doesn’t have a marginal rate of tax, this applies to the very poorest as well.
#14 Phil: ‘By 2013 our taxes will probably be cheaper if we were part of the UK’
I disagree.
#15 bella ‘tax the rich to such an extent they will be forced to leave,and then prices will come tumbling down. a bit drastic i know,but we were much better before these tax dodgers settled here.’
Jersey is expensive predominantly due to lack of competition. The ‘tax dodgers’ (I assume you mean 1(1)(k)s as everyone else pays 20 per cent) have a negligible effect. However, you might like to explain how you’d replace the tax revenue 1(1)(k)s provide.
#20 Tony
If the States have any sense, they will keep the 0 per cent rate of corporation tax. Even if the rate increases to 10 per cent, it used to be 20 per cent and this lost revenue was why GST was introduced.
#45 bella: ‘My brother lives in london and can get a pint of beer much cheaper than here and london is one of the dearest places in the world.’
Really? Where in London does he live? Zone 5 or higher I would think…
#47 REG
Really? Can you post your calculations on here?
Re salaries, I disagree. Jersey salaries are quite a bit higher than in the UK for most things.
#50 Mogit
Not sure where you’ve got your numbers from. However:
UK tax liability
Salary: £30k
Interest income: £2,440
Total income: £32,440
Less: personal allowances: £12,950
Taxable income: £19,490
Tax liability @ 20 per cent: £3,898
Jersey tax liability:
Total income: £32,440
Less: married person’s threshold: £20,280
Taxable income: £12,160
Tax liability @ 27 per cent: £3,283
Jersey comes out cheaper. Of course, if someone has children or a mortgage their tax liability in Jersey would be reduced further. Also, in the UK calculation, I’ve assumed that the £30k income and bank interest is split between the couple in the most tax-efficient manner. If only one partner worked and earned the interest, the tax liability is actually £5,193. #73 JerseyBoy is absolutely right.
#54 Adrian: ‘Why would they bring in any taxes that may cause themselves, or their contacts, to incur extra expense?’
20 means 20 increases the tax paid by middle and higher earners and reduces the tax paid by the ‘lower socio-economic strata’.
#75 Hugh Pym
Jersey’s Social Security contributions are capped at a similar level.
‘Many more tax breaks than over here. All your earnings up to £250k a year can be offset against tax in a pension. No ISA’s over here.’
No there aren’t: Jersey has child allowance and no ceiling on pension contributions. If you’re a marginal rate taxpayer, you also receive exemption on mortgage interest payments on your main residence.
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So duty basically goes up on ‘socialising’ again. Am i surprised? No. Why? Because it is easy and doesn’t involve forward thinking or new ideas for ways to raise money!
As for the way it is being put to us…..don’t treat me like an idiot Ozouf
Mr Ozouf i’d appreciate it if you said it like it is…
‘You dirty smokers already give us loads of dosh but we’re gonna take more! Not to try to make you quit but because we know most of you won’t and will continue to top up the balance here at the treasury you mugs!’ Thats an idea of what i mean Ozouf! Honesty!
‘There really isn’t anything else to do after 10pm on a weekend than drink so let’s increase duty on that. Easy money’. There’s another Ozouf! Honesty!
I find it offensive when a hike in duty on alcohol and cigarettes is dressed up in ‘we want to help you quit’ clothing.
Don’t treat me like a mug!
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Thank you Hugh Pym (comment 75) for explaining a few things to Jersey Boy.Warren (comment 74) has also made a few general statements that aren’t quite accurate regarding life in the UK.Having lived in Jersey until 3 years ago as I have said before I am much better off in England.I travel to work in 20 minutes (not 4 hours a day commuting!)and benefit from living in a very low crime area.But even better than the financial advantage of living here is the great choice in everything,not just shopping but the ability to drive for miles and see new places and “get away” without the expense of air or sea travel is another joy after years on an island.I have experienced both so can speak with some knowledge of both.
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#76
RE 15 We managed for years without them and a much better place to live in.
Prices are so expensive in jersey,because the market can stand it.the rich don,t care how much they pay for every-day items-brought about by them living here.
RE 45
My brother lives in whitehall although i don,t know what that has to do with it,or are you suggesting he lives in the slum area of london?
Have you never heard of Wetherspoons.(cheap drink and cheap food)half the price of jersey so others pubs forced to compete with them.
Are you for real? or just a mouthpiece for guv,to shoot us all down in flames?
Nearly everybody is wrong according to you.
Or are you some-one who don,t mind others having an opinion as long as it is the same as yours.
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#79 bella
Re 15, your argument about prices doesn’t make sense. While you may be right that most rich people don’t care how much they pay for everyday items, there are too few to have a significant effect.
To repeat my question, how you would replace the tax revenue they generate?
Re 45, there is no way the average price of a pint in central London is cheaper than in Jersey.
I won’t comment on your final paragraph as it is simply a personal attack other than to say that people who don’t agree with you and give specific reasons why they disagree are not necessarily a ‘mouthpiece for guv’.
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#80
The answer is already there.
We had very few or no millionairs pre 1970.
Income tax was 10% for most of us 20% for higher earners and we managed fine.
Every-one worked in those days and black holes were unheard of.
There was,nt all these politions we have now.
The farmers did the job for free and they did,nt mess up like now.
too many of them now.
the millionaires name how much they are willing to pay in tax.
This can,t be right!!
As for london prices your talking about tourists entertainment and if living in any city or town locals avoid these places and find alternatives cheaper places.
A personal attack on you?I asked you not accused you.A big difference.
I,ve had a few personal attacks on here myself,
it don,t bother me at all.sticks and stones and all that
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@ Bella #81
“…There was,nt all these politions we have now…”
Pre-1970, back to about the ’40s I believe, there was the same number of politicians as today; but I agree there should be a reduction.
“…The farmers did the job for free and they did,nt mess up like now…”
Simply not true. But how many farmers from the pre1970s era are now millionaires? How many got reach off the hard work of those on minimal wage (note: not minimum wage as there was no such employee protection back then) albeit keeping unemployment low?
I think it’s an empty argument that the full employment and prosperity of the past tourism and agriculture industries, is proof of failure of the current government; times have changed, and Jersey can no longer compete with other places in the world that enjoy better/more reliable weather and economies of scale with regard to travel.
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#81 bella
‘We had very few or no millionairs pre 1970.’
I’m afraid you’re wrong. ‘Economic Survey of Jersey’ has an entire chapter on ‘wealthy immigrants’ and page 206 says approximately 1,000 live in Jersey. This book was published in 1971.
‘the millionaires name how much they are willing to pay in tax. This can,t be right!!’
It isn’t right. Even if it were, if they make a net contribution to the island, so what?
Re your remaining points, ‘the only thing responsible for the good old days is a bad memory.’ There are problems in Jersey today just as there were problems at every other time. Some of the problems are similar, some are different.
Re London prices, this is not what you claimed.
‘A personal attack on you?I asked you not accused you.A big difference.’
I suggest you re-read what you wrote. The way you phrased your final paragraph reads as a series of accusations.
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Thats me then firmly put in my place.
I have my opinions and will stick to them.
you have yours likewise.
Lets just call it a day and move on.
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Julie (69+78)
No I have never lived in Jersey, and despite some of the views I have read here would still love to. I take your point though about being able to see so much more in England without always having to think about air or sea travel.The differences in prices of goods are always going to vary depending on what you buy and where you buy it from etc. Pleased you enjoy England though.
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