Dog owners: Please act responsibly
Wednesday 11th November 2009, 2:59PM GMT.
From Miriam Noel.
I write once again regarding the problem of dog owners disobeying the law about the picking up and disposal of dog excrement.
Recently on a walk around Sorel I passed four plastic bags containing dog poo, the plastic bags being tied at the neck and deposited on the path at intervals. The law requires dog owners to pick up and dispose of the poo using a dog poo bag and putting the bags in dog poo bins or taking it home for disposal. If caught breaking this law owners could be prosecuted.
If the owners will not do this, at least removing the poo to the undergrowth at the side of our walks would be a much better option, as plastic bags take two to three years to biodegrade. The dog poo, if left alone, would disappear into the soil. This would of course mean carrying a small shovel on walks for this purpose. Obviously in built-up areas the poo must be bagged and binned.
I understand that the Environment department conducts an information week after the week that dogs are banned from the beaches but until March I hope the dog owners can act responsibly and help keep the Island walkways clean.
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This may not be so in this case, but a lot of owners myself included, pick up after our dogs who normally have this natural function at the beginning of a walk. I then place the bag with usually a kilo of poop (they are well fed big dogs)in a prominent place to collect on my return journey for disposal. It saves carrying a Sakakaki for the duration of what could be an hours walk. Surely a perfectly reasonable, responsible thing to do ?
This could be the reason Miriam Noel is getting upset, after all why would anyone put poop in plastic bag ?
Of coarse more poop collection bins would be helpful. I don’t know what else the revenue for our dog licence is spent on
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Miriam Noel’s letter highlights a problem the the Jersey authorities seem to do little about. Yet dog faecs can cause Toxocariasis, which can cause blindness especially in young children. I have also read that dog faeces may also contribute to e-coli.
It is unpleasant when you tread in it and then transfer it to your car, or carpets in your home.
In the British Crime Survey, failing to clear up dog faeces is often one of the most complained about anti social acts….it is infact a crime. I’ll bet however, the police report very few people for not clearing up dog
excrement.
In the U.K. you often hear that people are prosecuted for not clearing up dog faeces, or they can discharge their liability for prosecution, by paying a fixed penalty.
In Jersey, the Honorary Police could deal with this type of offence and divert offenders from court by imposing summary fines at Parish Hall enquiries……I’ll wager PJG has never seen an offence like this – which is contrary to the Policing of Parks, Roads and Beaches Regulations – at a Parish Hall enquiry.
I hope someone takes notice of Ms Noel’s complaint – it should not be ignored.
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Take a walk around any of the reservoirs that supply the island’s water and look at the heaps of dog droppings. The owners of the dogs must be on bore holes.
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Ah Blue knight
Once again someone is making assumptions,they make an ASS out of U not ME, I offer the same challenge to you.
Where on this site have I ever STATED I am, was a Police Officer, Honorary, States, or Russian, male or female ?
Yes I have heard of someone being requested to attend Parish hall for this offence, they accepted a written caution. What was the wager ? whatever it was please donate to it your favourite charity.
You say
“which is contrary to the Policing of Parks, Roads and Beaches Regulations”
With knowledge such as this you MUST be a Centenier, Have you ?
If I am wrong and you are not an Honorary policeman how about joining then “you” can take notice of Ms Noels complaint, which I understand was particularly about plastic bagfuls of poop, not the piles some thoughtless Policing of Parks, Roads and Beaches Regulations breaking owners leave behind.
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We take our dogs for walks at the reservoirs sometimes and always pick up.
However, I would be more concerned about the tons of toxic agricultural chemicals that are washed off the fields and into the reservoirs than a few pounds of dog poo.
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Don’t worry Blue Knight. I made the same mistake.
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PJG # 4. I like the ASS out of U not ME….very good. I seem to recall earlier entries from a PJG who mentioned he was a Honorary Police officer..maybe you are using someone else’s pseudonym, or vice versa.(I think I’ve read a similar comment from another correspondent).
I’d love to come back to Jersey to help sort out Dr. Miriam Noel’s compalint, unfortuantely I am on the wrong side of the English Channel
In Jersey the legislature is reluctant to introduce a fixed penalty notice (f.p.n.) scheme for offences like this. However this is a ‘quick hit’ method of dealing with this antisocial behaviour….the offender pays a penalty or goes to court. This is frequently used in the U.K. and with considerable success. I imagine the reason they don’t like f.p.ns in Jersey, is because it takes away powers from the ‘Hobby Bobbies’. God forbid…..last time another correspondent mentioned ‘Hobby Bobby’, the ‘other PJG’ seemed to take offence.
I hope someone in the States looks at this problem, because it is a major potential health hazard…..I won’t hold my breath however.
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There must be a tird way of dealing with this nuisance.
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Blue Knight #7
another poster on this site who was critical of the Parish hall System stated it was wrong that an innocent had to go to court to prove so, whereas a guilty person could elect to pay a fine and get off without having a record of going to court. I hope my explanations showed that for this to happen with the PHE system there must have been an error in proceedings.
However, with FPNs this is exactly what happens is it not ?
Also at a PHE a lot more can be done other than just impersonal fines. The problem, even if its just someone who does not pick up after their dog can be helped to correct their ways with a host of other sanctions that may fit the offence better. Some have such a large disposable income FPNs mean nothing to them.
A £50 FPN issued to a one parent family on benefit is only going to punish the family, not the selfish adult.
As I said before, I HAVE MADE A POINT in my posts on this site not to mention whether I am, or was a Police Officer, Honorary, States, or Russian, male or female or “not”.
I do(IMO)have a fair knowledge of the system but would never let just the fact of who or what I am or am not influence the validity (or not) of my posts which are after all only an opinion.
Before I took the time to understand what the Honorary police actually do I too used to insult them by calling them “half coppers, plastic police, ego massagers etc. In fact one of my favourite jokes was “what’s 100mtrs long and has an anus at both ends ? answer an honorary police road check”.
You say “Hobby Bobbies” I prefer unpaid professionals, I think it more describes what these selfless individuals do for their community, and the money that rates and taxpayers save through their efforts must amount into millions per year. But then I have now taken the time to search out what they do do and not just jump on the on the name calling band wagon with the rest of the uneducated as I was. God forbid you being one of those ?
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South London Boy # 8. Was that a typographical error, ‘Sputh’? There is possibly another typographical error with tird; is it not turd?
Ah, my good friend P.J.G. doesn’t like the term, ‘Hobby Bobby’. I was just teasing you, after I had read one of your earlier entries on another topic and you took the bait.
I am not at all anti Honorary Police and I can see the benefits of having such an organisation – believe it or not the idea was given some consideration here in the U.K.
Furthermore I agree that f.p.n.s. aren’t always the best option, but at present there seems to be little in Jersey, to motivate people to clear up their dog’s faeces. In addition to this, Defra recommend that f.p.n.s can be paid by installments on arrangement with the issuing local authority. This is to avoid the wrong doer’s family suffering hardship.
The idea of the f.p.n. system, is so the culprit can discharge his or her liabiltiy to prosecution and the same standards of evidence are required, as for reporting someone for summons. The same as at a parish hall enquiry, before a Centenier can impose a sanction, the offender has to agree his / her guilt before a f.p.n. can be issued.
I do feel the Honorary Police would gain a lot of kudos, if they did a campaign to encourage people to retrieve their dog’s faeces, by education and enforcement. Remember dog faeces can cause serious problems to heath. I fear my idea will fall on deaf ears, yet I think it is an excrement plan. (Will P.J.G. bite his tongue, or will there be another riposte?)
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Blue Knight #10
I have blood on my lip !
Back to the thread,
I walk the streets of St Helier quite a lot with one or other of my dogs and IMO our streets are on a par or cleaner (Dog poop wise) than the majority of Cities I have visited in UK, and vastly more so than France.
I do agree with Miriam Noel though that some of our country walks are blighted by the irresponsible
This may have something to do with the banning of dogs on the beach. If a dog poops on the beach and the owner does not pick up one officer/warden can easily see this has happened and act accordingly.
If this happens on a hidden bend of a country walk an army of officers/wardens would be needed to police all of our areas, could you imagine the defences of reasonable doubt, and the forensics would make a Parish hall smell for ages .Perhaps we should encourage dog walking on the easily policed beaches, or at least some of the less attractive to tourist beaches.
Ref your paragraph 4
Perhaps FPNs may help in Jersey
FPNs in UK are issued by the investigating officer who has one sanction fine or not, the accused has 2 options pay or not. In Jersey the addition of PHE system gives the recipient of an FPN a third choice, the chance to prove their innocence to a separate agency without having to be summond and go to court. Also if the FPN is inappropriate for that particular offence / offender a Centenier could cancel or change the sanction.
So on reflection, Yes FPNs in addition with our PHE system could work, so long as there is a record of previous offending and it does not become a licence for the rich to let their dogs poop anywhere.
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PJG # 11 (I am sorry about the blood on your lip, make sure you put some antiseptic on it).I think the issue of what sanction is appropriate is pointless, if these offences are not detected.
I agree that St. Helier’s streets are very clean complared to many urban areas in the U.K. and dog faeces are rarely seen on the pavement. However during a visit to the Island in the summer, there was much evidence of dog excrament on beaches an other public areas in the countryside.
In the U.K., local authority officers have the power to deal with people who fail to clear up dog faeces. They patrol areas where offences regulalry occur and when they witness offences are empowered to issue fixed penalty notices, or report offeners for summons. Failre to give a name and address to a local authority officer is an additional offence and officers can and do call the police to assist.
This isn’t the only role these officers undertake; they also deal with people who throw down litter, fly tip, or abandon derelict motor vehicles etc. In Jersey there appears to nobody dedicated to dealing with any of these incidents, yet some of these occurrences pose a potential health risk. To reiterate, the Honorary Police would gain a lot of kudos, if they resolved these quality of life issues.
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