80 jobs to go at Jersey Telecom
Thursday 12th November 2009, 3:00PM GMT.
Jersey Telecom’s chief executive, Bob Lawrence, who is due to retire in the spring, pictured this morning outside the town shop Picture: DAVID FERGUSON (00831726)
AN estimated 80 jobs are to go at Jersey Telecom over the next five months as the business tries to slash millions of pounds off its annual running costs.
Staff were informed about the redundancies yesterday in an e-mail sent around the company by JT Group chief executive Bob Lawrence just after 2.30 pm.
They were told that as part of a ‘business transformation programme’ the company needed to cut a further £7 million over the next 12 months, in addition to savings that had already been made so far this year.
‘This means that up to 80 jobs across the organisation are at risk of being lost over the next 12 months,’ said Mr Lawrence in the e-mail.
Volunteers are now being sought to accept a redundancy package and all the job losses are expected by the end of March next year.
Last year Jersey Telecom reported pre-tax profits of £11 million.
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They should increase the price of the new 8 meg broadband service to cover the loss. You know the one that costs 6 times as much as the UK 10 meg service and only covers 15% of the island ie St. Helier.
Or get Tezza to help them out along with Jersey Water.
Jersey Telecom – pay more get less
Think twice – sack a local
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One day I rang Jersey Telecoms to enquire about my bill and I waited and waited and waited until someone answered the call ….
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Same old story with anything either partly or completly owned by the States, how many men does it take to dig a hole or change a light bulb, in real financhial terms no private company could afford to employe so many for so little work.
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In the words of Paul Weller ” The public gets what the public wants “. We were told by Economic delepment that the Island needs competition in the telecom market and now unfortunately this is one of the results , what ever happened to Think twice buy local , good luck to all those who may be affected by this perhaps they should send their soon to be unpaid bills to the JCRA !!!!
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Competition is good for the island.
I feel sorry for those made to leave, but prior to the arrival of any competitor, my experience as a customer was NEVER excellent! the positive side of having a competitor, it will stop them from increasing their rates even more and prevent us from being over charged!
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“Business Transformation Programme”?! Don’t you mean “Sacking People”?
Please, no more of this management garbage.
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With no doubt I feel sorry for the people that are going to lose there job. However, I have no sympathy for Jersey telecoms themselves, they were a monopoly before and had the run of the island to charge what they wanted and when they wanted. At the end of the day people want what is cheapest and the greedy companies suffer
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And of course this will not affect the executives’ salaries and bonus payments. JT executives earn salaries on a par with off Island organisations in their own industry that are substantially larger and more complex, and the States have sat back and let this happen. All that in reality that will happen as a result of this “apparent” saving is that more money will be wasted, customer service will remain abysmal, and pricing will remain extraordinarily uncompetitive in the world market. The excuse that we are an Island is no justification for the off island call rates, after all my Skype calls travel over the same networks?
What should have happened years ago was the sale or IPO of JT, however the States would have then spent and wasted that windfall as well I guess?
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In my opinion Jersey is going to end up with a very fragmented telecoms market.
All the operators will have a tiny share of a minute customer base, they won’t be making enough money to invest so the island will fall further behind in terms of technology.
It is a recipe for disaster and could finish off the finance industry.
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So why didn’t the States sell Jersey Telecom when it had the chance? I seem to recall Geoff Southern & Co doing their utmost best to stop the sale to help the workers, well, that’s just back fired now hasn’t it, because a quarter are losing their jobs anyway. Well so much for their political intervention into this one.
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The JCRA would only allow JT to do certain things, it was never a level playing field. JCRA insisted on number portability of JT numbers not of the other operators, it was JT that hung out for it to be across the board. The S of J and JCRA have crippled JT and now the effects are becoming apparent.
JT have supported the Island in numerous projects including Jersey Live, but with JT the S of J benefit, with outside companies all the money goes outside the island.
Pip Clements comment (9) is well worth the consideration, it should not have taken this for the States to wake up and smell the coffee,
No secure infastructure within telcommuncations – NO finance!
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Like the service provided by the company I like the personal touch telecom take with their staff, instead of telling them face to face in a formally arranged meeting they just get an EMAIL! no wonder the service is poor no respect for the staff, or perhaps they could have sent out a text message…..
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At the end of 2009, the best this company can provide me with is 1mb ADSL. That’s way too slow, so I voted with my wallet a long time ago and switched to Newtel as my broadband provider. At least their hands are tied; I’m not paying JT a penny more than I have to. Maybe if I saw an improvement to my service I would consider switching back (although with download caps on 1mb broadband when the competition provides unlimited, you have to laugh).
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Quite frankly! Jersey should learn to live with rising levels of unemployment. You never had it so good! Years of protectionism, nimbyism and narrowminded insular thinking has lead to this point. Live with it, or deal with it!!
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Well without a doubt this is terrible news for all the people who now will find themselves at the job centre,i imagine most of the people being made redundant will be the workers at the lower levels and the high management will not suffer, keep their overpaid fat cat posts who in my opinion have failed the rest of the staff, but this has been on the cards for years. Newcomers to the scene have slashed prices where JT have stood still, roll on when we can have another fixed line provider, prices will come down to what they should be, if this market did open up more jobs will be created, i would imagine more jobs have been created than the ones lost to date with the new mobile providers being able to operate.Good luck to all of those who have got to go , it will not be long until you will be joined at the job center with lots of other ex states workers soon as all departments are being scrutinised by an army of pen pushers under the control of Senators Ozouf and Le Sueur be warned.
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If JT had reacted positively to competition, rather than relying on delaying tactics on number portability, then maybe they would be in better shape now.
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Quote from Phil
Customer service will remain abysmal, and pricing will remain extraordinarily uncompetitive in the world market. The excuse that we are an Island is no justification for the off island call rates, after all my Skype calls travel over the same networks?
How true Phil, pricing from JT is appalingly expensive sorry for those losing there jobs you can bet it wont be top line managers getting the boot
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No sympathy at all on this one. The service has always been way too expensive, the service poor and the available technologies have been a joke.
Matt is correct, 2 years ago they had the chance to sell JT to a multi-million Pound company which could of brought Jersey up to speed with the rest of Europe. They would of had the money to invest and for the staff career moves could have been even made outside of Jersey.
But no, their union made a fuss, left winger socialists in the States made a fuss and the suggestion was shelved. Well hindsight is a wonderful thing but what else did they expect to happen but this?
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Amanda No. 11
Who is sponsoring the ice rink this year????
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Well done Pip you’re one of the few who realises what may well happen.
When finance gets hit because of a degraded communications infrastructure at least those left behind can have a choice of service provider. It should be fun texting when they are in the potato fields, in the rain, on £6.20 an hour.
Another chance for HK and Singapore to get some more business from Jersey. Maybe the TJN don’t need to bother after all?
To quote a certain teleco THE FUTURE IS ORANGE, but maybe not in Jersey.
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I feel so sorry for all the staff affected.
But one has to ask, if management still got their bonus of a few million pounds as reported at the earlier this year?
May be it would be a good time to hand this money back and save a few jobs?
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Bertie,
whoopy duck, Jersey live has been on for as long as the icering saga, so who has contributed more, People do not come to Jersey as a tourist to Ice skate, but they do come to see rock bands perform.
I am very surprised that the views expressed are so short sighted – we may be able to get the odd cheaper call now, but JT profits go back to the shareholder = the States. Surely the less JT contribute the more that has to be found from taxes and cut backs will continue to be made in public services. Is that really what this island wants?
Don’t you think that once the other operators have more than their shair and JT has gone down the pan that their prices will not be increased to reflect this?
Please can people look a bit further than now and see what the future holds.
Pre tax profits of 11 million where will States claw back that money certainly not from the 1.1K’s it will be the ordinary folk,
So looking at 2012/13 higher prices by the other operators, more taxes imposed by States and increase in GST its Jersey residents that pay in the end.
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You have to laugh. Right next to this story line about job losses one of their rivals has a flashing Mobile Phone advert!
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I wonder how much it cost to refurbish their Queen Steet shop, do they own it or rent it?
Did they move because Vodafone and C&W were on the “High Street”? If the building is rented, what is the net gain when measured against staying in Minden Place?
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@Jon or to sell it to the directors of JT by way of a management buy-out and then we could have watched them make a real fortune “streamlining” the business ?
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Number 12 – Sam
They couldn’t have sent a text message – that would have been too expensive!
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Paul how come Jersey managed as a finance centre till recently then if JT wasn’t offering a proper service at a decent price?
I am led to believe that the states control JT and they allow them to charge a certain price. Therefore any gripes on pricing you should refer to your states member not JT.
JT puts all profits back to the states i.e. the tax payers, you and me. When they have no money to give who will make up this shortfall? You got it you and me. Happy with that? I’m not.
What price competition? In my opinion JT will become a shell of a company and end up being sold for little money to a private company, what benefit is this for us tax payers who own it? Non.
As per these private companies making all these profits, all these profits bar some tax take, will go to private shareholders probably fat cats, instead of the states, is this what you want?
JT has a good infrasture to support IT and finance, who is going to pay for this in future if JT aren’t around? Will a private company want these overheads or not? If they don’t then the infrastructure will slid downhill. Or they could hold the island to ransom to pay for this meaning yet more taxes for Joe Public to pay.
Are you lot willing to take a gamble with your futures to save a few pounds on your phone calls?
As per staff losing their jobs where will they get decent paid jobs from? Most will probably end up on less money elsewhere and on worse conditions as well. Maybe no one else cares because they are so self centred and in badly paid jobs themsleves, but who will be paying for this shortfall in tax taking from their wages? You got it you will. Happy with that?
There are two sides to every story.
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Sorry Paul, there are no oxymorons in my post. An oxymoron is a figure of speech as in the phrase from Tennyson, “And faith unfaithful kept him falsely true”, which contains a double oxymoron.
Chopping a tiny telecoms market of less than a 100,000 up between several operators will result in short term savings for customers but each operator will be taking only a small share of the profits.
There will never be enough to keep the system up to date or invest in the 100Mbit/s cable our competitors are putting in.
Jersey’s ADSL service is at the level of the rural UK, where do you think the tens of milions needed to bring it up to world class speeds are going to come from?
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There is no need for JT to keep ploughing money into Jersey Live. It costs a ridiculous amount of money every year, which is why you never see Airtel-Vodafone, C&W or Newtel doing anything in any way similar. It isn’t hard to work out – huge outgoings result in a need for sustained profit or cost-cutting exercises (in this case, job cuts). If JT need to save money, then they should stop sponsoring Jersey Live – that would save several jobs.
They also have a hugely inflated workforce for the relative size of the company, and as someone else has pointed out, pay their directors huge salaries and bonuses.
I also think you will find that it was JT who resorting to stalling tactics when the other operators were pushing for MNP, not the other way round. JT is the most expensive provider here and people have begun to vote with their feet (as JT feared they would).
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Well at least the staff at Telecom were notified, those who lost their jobs at Ogier were not, and were all caught unprepared like rabbits in headlights, I’m sorry for the workers who will lose their jobs, its a terrible time for them, the irony is they may have to claim income support anyway to help them through the tough times ahead so there will be a cost to the states anyway!
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Reading these comments it shows many people don’t really know all the facts.
Don’t blame the staff, they only work there.
You can’t compare Jersey to the UK as they have milions on customers compared to our 100k. Ecconomies of scale? 3 telcos.. so thats 33k each? It can’t be done!!!
The ADSL is Jersey is also far superior to the UK. They advertise 8mb but as you would have seen on watchdog no one gets that there. I got on the new 8mb and I get the full speed.
Also don’t forget they are regulated, so if you don’t like the current prices complain to the JCRA as JT will have to get everything agreed through them.
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I’m suprised they’re laying people off when they carge nearly £400 to put in a landline and internet!!
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Pip C #29
Not sure about the last section of your post when you say “where do you think the tens of millions needed to bring it up to world class speeds are going to come from?” JT would never have been in a position to deliver that either… unless you wanted to pay £1 per minute phone charges for it.
The reason why the competition can charge less is nothing to do with what they spend on local infrastructure (anyway who do you think is paying for all these new masts etc?), it’s because they can take advantage of economies of scale from the handsets to technology which JT simply cannot compete with. JT also has a comparatively better package for its employees which makes matters worse for them.
This is a sad situation for those involved. But the people wanted competition, the people got competition, now the people have to live with the consequences of their actions.
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The JCRA have nothing to do with crippling Jersey Telecoms and with IP being the way forward telecoms aren’t wholly responsible for holding up the infrastructure of the finance industry get your facts right.( Amanda) Telecoms also make a packet out of agreements with these competitors.
IT and technology is why this is happening, things have moved on a lot which most people who consider themselves to be engineers should know!!!!
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And that includes higher taxes joker. Nevermind at least people have a choice of where their money goes now. Either back to the states via JT or into shareholders pockets via a private company. Aint choice just grand?
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Why do we need so many phone companies? JT, Vodafone, Cable and Wireless, Newtel and another new one coming soon? For a small population of about 100 000 people? It’s ridiculous!
I am quite happy with JT and won’t be going elsewhere any time soon. Yes the others offer cheaper deals but they just aren’t as good as JT.
I don’t know how anyone can complain about Jt’s broadband being slow, maybe your computers aren’t that good because my connection is very fast. I play online games like Halo and Call of Duty and I never have problems with the connection being slow of crashing!
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Commercial competition means the survival of the fittest and most competent suppliers.
Commercial competition means that service suppliers offer prices and services that will be attractive to consumers.
What is there not to like about competition? Only those who are incompetent will fear it.
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“The ADSL is Jersey is also far superior to the UK. They advertise 8mb but as you would have seen on Watchdog no one gets that there. I got on the new 8Mb and I get the full speed.”
The ADSL in Jersey is much like the UK actually.
I have had the chance to test lines all over the island.
The only real 8mb line I have seen so far was in a bedsit within a stones throw of the JT Minden Place exchange.
I would say that real 8Mb when you run it on a test site is restricted to maybe 15% of the island.
Maybe another 20 – 30% can realistically get 4Mb.
After that we are down in 2Mb land which is the rest apart from the truely deprived.
Huge blackspots exist in the island, parts of Gorey never get above 1Mb despite paying for 2Mb, Five Oaks is another bad place, parts of St Brelade is around the 1Mb mark and the booby prize goes to those around St Marys Hill.
They are paying for 2Mb but the average line around there does about 256Kb or 0.256Mb in old money, an eighth or 12.5% of what they are paying for!
And you can switch from Telecom to Newtel, the service remains the same because it is down to the equipment and the quality of the line between the exchange and your home and that is down to JT.
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Jersey Telecom should have been sold by the States of Jersey years ago, preferably as a ‘trade sale’ to the highest bidder.
It is quite ridiculous that the States continue to have ownership or part ownership of assets that require continual capital investment, from which the States also demand a return/share of profits, and at same time require them to be subject to a form of regulatory and non-regulatory competition.
Wake up to the fact that all these fiefdoms, oops, sorry, trading committees would better serve the island were they transferred out of the control and ownership of the States of Jersey.
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Thank you Pip Clement for correctly stating the facts. Tony’s comment was shortsighted and annoyed me. I will take my money to whichever operator can upgrade my service beyond 2005 levels, should that day ever come. The news about job losses is sad, but maybe if JT did some work that was noticeable by the majority of the island there would be more sympathy.
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People like Kevin who say “I am quite happy with JT and won’t be going elsewhere any time soon. Yes the others offer cheaper deals but they just aren’t as good as JT”.
Must either work for JT, have family or friends that work for JT or money to burn!
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‘Commercial competition means the survival of the fittest and most competent suppliers.
Commercial competition means that service suppliers offer prices and services that will be attractive to consumers.’
Once again the parroting of free market nostrums.
If you want to see a real disaster caused by handing over the supply of a major utility to a totally unregulated market have a look at the story of electric power generation in California in the early part of the 21st century.
The result of this was that in one of the richest states in a G7 country a programme of rolling black outs for homes and businesses had to be implemented so power supplies to water and sewage pumping stations, hospitals, fire and police stations could be maintained.
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Firstly, you dont pay for 2mb, the terms state clearly up to 2mb! Secondly, the UK government actually pays BT to upgrade their network, and are due to tax phonelines £6 per year to hand BT to invest in Broadband network improvements. What does our Government do? Takes JT’s profits and sits back and have encouraged disproportionate competition, sanctioned by the clueless JCRA, and have allowed a UK firm who moan about JT yet have monopolies themselves in many island terrortories, and an Indian firm who offer headline prices, but who no doubt will hike up the prices whenthey have JT finished. I wonder if Cable and Wireless and Airtel pay tax in Jersey, I think we know the answer to that. JT’s Directors should also hang their heads in shame for taking those bonuses,when they knew what was around the corner for their staff. Finally, Philip Ozouf, I hope you are pleased with your near complete project. JEC, probably you all next!
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How many new jobs were created by opening up the market? Has the overall number of telecommunications related jobs gone down? Is this not simply a redistribution of manpower
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Er maybe they are losing their jobs because they are not actually needed? A lot of middle management in banks are losing their jobs because they are not needed.. many dont do anything.. in fact a lot of states departments and companies are full of freeloaders… do they think they may actually be doing something about that aswell now or are we all just losing focus here.. ?
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In answer to 45. Even if the overall number of jobs hasn’t gone down what happens if these other companies import their own staff? This will further increase the population and put more locals out of work. I would like to know how many extra people all these companies have brought in and whether they will end up here permanently thus swelling an already over populated island and putting increased strain on our barely coping infrastructure. Remember increased infrastructure cost more money. Then there is the increased pressure on properties and the resultant increase in prices as too much demand for too few properties further exasibates the housing crisis over here. This pressure will force parts of the green zone to be reassessed to make way for more building making millionaires overnight for some lucky land owners. The developers will also do very well for this. However those having to pay astronomical prices for these properties will be in financial insecurity for all of their lives unless they are exceptionally well paid. A loss of their job will mean financial meltdown for them in these changing times of job insecurity.
As to people moaning about prices from JT since they are controlled by the states then you should have complained to your states member and demanded that they reduce these prices.
The JCRA are a waste of time in my honest opinion as all they have done is mess up what was a good company that had served the island well for over 100 years. As the competitors are bigger than JT all that is gong to happen is that JT will be squeezed out of the market place meaning the island will have lost control of the teleco market.
What happens if these competitors say at some time in the future there isn’t enough money to be made in Jersey and pull out? Who would provide all the services we take forgranted now? JT has a duty to provide a service to the old lady down the road who barely users her phone. Do you honestly think these new companies will be bothered in these type of customers? I doubt it very much. They will probably do as Mercury did when it first competed against BT and cream off all the high value customers leaving the rest to JT. Where will the profit come from then?
Has anyone thought about the fact that there are only 80,000 customers over here? Does anyone think four companies can make a profit from an average of 20,000 each? If you do you know nothing about economics.
As has already been witnesses telegraph poles are sprouting up all over the place making a blot on the landscape. What about any increased health risks from all this? Does anyone care?
I myself think the states blundered by liberalising the market place and will come to rue the day they did this. However by then it will be too late and the damage will be done.
Indeed when JT can’t put £12M in the kitty for the states and it goes to nothing where will this extra money have to come from? Fancy paying more GST to make up the shortfall anyone? As far as I am concerned one way or another the customer will end up paying for this decision.
George as far as I am concerned a manager has to have the ability to convince their staff everything is fine until the time is right to unload them. Causing panic in the ranks before the time is right isn’t good for company business and it also prevents the better one’s jumping ship before hand leaving them short staffed in vital areas. I myself would prefer to be told the truth as soon as the managers know about it.
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#42, LIsa, or maybe you should just accept that some people do not mind paying a bit more for what they think is a better service?
Maybe your post and some of the other ”JT is so awful” posts are being posted by Vodafone, C&W and Newtel employees?
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Its good to talk….hilarious name, did you think that up all on your own?
I will let Sure and Airtel and Newtel know that they will have 25 new members of staff each in the next few weeks.
You need to have a little think and do some research.
Sure is run from Guernsey with minimum staff in Jersey.
Airtel is run from India/UK with minimum staff in Jersey.
Whatever we think of JT, some of the spiteful, nasty comments on here are downright rude and spineless. Easy to say hiding behind your keyboards.
This is real people who may not be able to support their families in the very near future.
Yes thats right, lets blame the staff shall we and say they deserve it and we have no sympathy.
Well, who on this forum works in the following:
Shops
Hotels
Finance
Insurance
Cafes/Restaurants
Electrician
Plumber
Gardeners
Travel agents
Mechanics
Well that must cover a few of you.
Lets now have a chat about the knock on effects of 80 people (not including the poor Waterworks guys) who are soon to be out of work.
80 less people buying teas/coffees/sarnies/soups etc in town.
80 less people going on holiday
80 less people getting their garden done
80 less people doing house alterations
80 less people getting their car serviced
80 less people borrowing money for mortgages
80 less people getting car insurance for the 2nd car they currently run
Shall I go on?
These are all things I would look at cutting and a lot more if I was getting made redundant.
So those of you with your nasty comments, remember what you put on here, when lets say for example a large local Insurance company goes down the pan next year and you are struggling to meet your mortgage payments and feed your family.
Happy Christmas and lets hope none of you are in this position next year.
ps When Income tax goes up, GST is increased and your social sec payments go up. Remember the 11 million which you no longer get.
Still, you get cheap texts eh!!
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Sir Charles I would guess that Airtel has brought in people from India to run the local branch. Will they be J-cat status I wonder? If this is correct then there will be no need for these ex-JT employers.
You never know those who have been slagging off the waterworks and JT staff could be next to lose their jobs then others can take the **** out of them. As they say what goes around comes around.
Unfortunately the ones to gain from this will be the fat cats who will be taking most of the profit away from the Jersey taxpayer.
Hence those of you who are shortsighted will take the short term apparent gain and end up paying for it in increased taxation. If only people opened up their minds a bit more and looked at the bigger picture. If they did they might realise this is a bad move.
Before anyone asks no I don’t work for JT, and neither would I want to work with or be associated with those who have no sense of loyalty to their own class, or how they might suffer.
It is sad that there are people who are all me, me, me. However it would come as no surprise that should these individuals get the boot that they would be expecting others to help them. Think twice and think of others for a change. If you don’t why should anyone think about you?
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It never ceases to amaze me how people seem to not understand the basic principle of ‘if it looks too good to be true then it probably is’.
This must apply to free this and free that form the new operators.
None of the operators are making any money on GSM and once market forces have let rip your choice will once again be gone, Difference is that the market will be owned by companies who have no allegiance to Jersey and who will use accountants and the like to wriggle which ever way they can to avoid paying their dues to the Island. JT contributes significently to the states – some 6.7m for those who bother to find out before sounding off which is equivelent to a £300 tax increase for a family of 4 if it is lost.
How can JT compete when its hands are tied by a regulator whos remit is only to introduce competition what ever the consequences.
To quote that old sixties song – you dont know what you got till its gone.
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All the negative comments aimed at JT? It is the States that want their money as they own JT. Its the states that kept the prices high. Its the states that still want their money thats why 115 jobs are going. Don’t blame ths staff its the politicians that kept prices high now everyone hates the staff why? At the moment a few staff are employed at C&W and Airtel but then most staff are flown in on short term contracts (cheap labour)!! and once JT are gone who will fund the treasury coffers to the tune of the 6 million lost …you guessed it the taxpayer.No 115 workers no tax from 115 workers who foots the bill….the taxpayer!! Cheaper calls now but you will pay for it one way or the other
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#44 George: ‘I wonder if Cable and Wireless and Airtel pay tax in Jersey, I think we know the answer to that.’
It depends whether C&W, Airtel, etc are regarded as trading companies, which pay no Jersey corporate tax, or utility companies, which pay tax at 20 per cent.
A utility company is defined as: ‘a person licensed to run part or all of a public telecommunications system under the Telecommunications (Jersey) Law 2002[323]‘.
I would therefore think that, like JT, the other phone providers would pay tax at 20 per cent.
#51 Peter: ‘…companies…will use accountants and the like to wriggle which ever way they can to avoid paying their dues to the Island.’
I’d be interested in hearing how they do this.
Also, I wonder how you’ve calculated your £300 figure.
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What a shame that those who run our lives could not have the vision to realise that public utilities are best kept as public utilities.
In areas such as provision of telephones and data transmission, to have the infrastucture in the hands of just one capable organisation is surely a more civilised way of going about things.
Jersey had the benefit of watching the effects of privatisation in the UK but guess what? Good old Mammon gets his way.
A proper public utility would have no remit to sponsor ice skating any way.
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The whole telecom market is now laughable. JT come in for so much stick, but how come the JEC never get the media attention over their monopoly!
They are also shareholders in Newtel along with Gary Whipp. They enjoy a monopoly of their own market, and are allowed to compete in the telecom market.
Gary Whipp is also on the Board of Jersey Post, another monopoly, who are now competing in the mobile market. They may say they are yet to announce which operator they are to use to “piggy back” on to, but its no secret it is Airtel. Newtel who Gary Whipp is a shareholder in, share a call centre with Airtel, so they are already joined at the hip.
Some people are clueless and I personally hope they find themselves in the same position as the staff facing redundancy at JT and JW.
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Michael are you aware that all of JT’s profits after running costs and money for future projects and maintenance goes back to the states?
Is the 20% tax take from the rest anywhere near the same as £12M? I would say not.
Once JT gets badly hit where will the money come from for the infrastructure to maintain and extend it to met the demands of IT and finance? It took JT 100 years of work to get the structure to this level with much money from the tax payer. Will private companies want to spend money on something that has no direct benfit to them? No doubt JT will be left to carry the can for this whilst the rest do well on the profits of their high value clients they have enticed away from JT, leaving JT to pick up the left overs, but still having to pay for the network.
Just ask yourselves a pertainent question how come a new service provider can price their services below an existing provider when they are using the existing service provider’s network? Even economies of scale can’t make up this difference.
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“People do not come to Jersey as a tourist to Ice skate, but they do come to see rock bands perform”.
By the grizzled beard of St Brelade, get a life, Amanda!
I am a regular visitor to the island from the UK. I come to Jersey for a rest, to enjoy the scenery and to meet up with the friends I have made on the island. The food is not too bad, either.
The very last thing that would bring me over to Jersey would be rock bands; I can get as much of that as I want in London.
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“What a shame that those who run our lives could not have the vision to realise that public utilities are best kept as public utilities.
“In areas such as provision of telephones and data transmission, to have the infrastucture in the hands of just one capable organisation is surely a more civilised way of going about things”.
The trouble is that Jersey Telecom clearly is not a “capable organisation”, as the current crisis has proved. Moreover, “A more civilised way of going about things” would be not to put all of Jersey’s eggs in one basket.
R P Bourgard obviously has absolute and unwavering faith in “the Jersey way”, but it is not working this time.
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People keep on hinting that we should all use JT because the money goes back to the States, but JT is not a charity. JT could have been sold for £200 Million 2 years ago and just think what that money could of done for us now. The people who pressed to keep JT in States ownership were just thick as far as I am concerned.
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#56 Adrian
I don’t understand how your post relates to what I wrote. I was answering #44 George’s question about whether Airtel, etc are taxed in Jersey. You seem to have drawn all sorts of conclusions about what I think from this.
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Udupi, perhaps Jersey Telecom hasn’t been a public utility for quite some time?
Their capability is entirely another matter but I really don’t see why a “not for profit” (which JT is not, but could have been under a more visionary government) public utility need not be in the forefront of technology.
How on earth you connect my comments with “The Jersey Way” – which I don’t think I have form for supporting – baffles me!
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Are some people suggesting that JT staff are unemployable or; being States owned maybe they were on generous packages unavailable elsewhere in the same industry? One thing is for sure though, I would of got out ages ago, why stick around on a sinking ship?
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Adrian #47
“As to people moaning about prices from JT since they are controlled by the states then you should have complained to your states member and demanded that they reduce these prices”
They did which is why we now have competition.
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@ 63
So why won’t said states members let in cut price UK supermarkets then?
The JCRA sent out some survey and decided we didn’t need anymore supermarkets.
I wonder why?
Only on this Island do we have no Aldi’s or Lidls but we have 5 M&S foodhalls in a 9×5 island.
Level playing field? I don’t think so.
5 telco licences with 4 Mobile operators is ridiculous on an Island this size.
Now what about Condor?
When was the last time you went to France for £99 with your car for the day?
When HD were operating thats when.
So why won’t the states members you mention do anything about this then??
How about the JEC, Jersey Gas???
Competition was needed in the Telco industry but not this many.
Things are going to get worse.
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How many of the people complaining about competition on here will be the same people saying we don’t need a Tesco or Asda on Island?
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Get a gripe #64
Simple answer to that one; Food retail and telecos are two completely different markets, not to mention one already has several well established retailers in and the other had none. Trust me, if it was worth their while, the ruthless UK supermarkets would already be here in their objective of conquering the world. They rely on huge outlets for economies of scale so they can afford low margins which is why they are so much cheaper. Jersey is not a place where low margins can be achieved easily due to the small number of people, lack of physical space and the issue of shipping all the goods over whilst ensuring quality control. All this means they’d probably lose money if they charged UK prices here. To adapt their strategy for the Jersey market simply isn’t worth the hassle for the market share they’d achieve. M&S do well because their strategy is not high turnover low margin, it’s lower turnover high margin which works perfectly in Jersey.
Telecos does not require anywhere near the same level of logistics, new companies are tapping into existing infrastructure and where needed installing large capital items that are delivered once then last years. The handsets are cheap because they’ve bought hundreds of thousands of them at a low fixed price and all that’s required is to ship several hundred over here. You’re right, 4 telcos companies is ridiculous and expect competition to weed some out.
Condor v HD. HD may have been cheaper but that clearly wasn’t sustainable otherwise they’d still be here.
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They only allow competition when it suits.
Agree 100% with you 64
Remember when Comet was here?
all the other electrical firms undercut them till they had no option but to leave,and then put their price sky high again.
this practice has been stopped in many countries.
IE they are not allowered to undercut if a new bussiness opens up.
But it seems anything goes here.
When they did a survey 3 or 4 years back the report said we needed more choice and should allow another retail,but the 2 existing supermarkers opened shops all over the island to stop any-one else setting up.
Thats why we hav,nt got any choice.
our wonderful politicians are not even interested any more
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joker the point is the states control telecoms and they can dictate what price they charge end of. Therefore there was need for competition was there? The states could have reduced the prices charged if they so wished but they didn’t.
Well said Get a gripe Condor need sorting out as I am concerned. The only time they have competitive prices is when there is competition to them. I don’t know if its only me but it appears to me that all Condor do is wait for a competitor then reduce the prices to force them off the route before banging them up again. It is about time Senator MacClean looked into this.
Another couple of supermarket chains would be good and I would get them from France this would soon put the cat amongst the pigeons.
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Redundancy is a horrible thing however the workers at JT will receive three weeks for each year worked + 15 weeks, 16 if you are over 50 e.g. over 50and work at JT for 30years = 106 weeks pay that’s over two years pay. There has been over 100 people made redundant in the Finance industry this year alone, only some received a redundancy package, not all and those that have it was no where near what JT or states workers receive. I know two women both over 50 worked for a trust co for 14 and have been laid off recently without a single penny (they also haven’t had a pay rise in 7 years) and coupled with the amount of AGISUM in the finance industry their future is very bleak. Nothing in the papers of course as deputies Pitman & Southern only care states or what they think are lowly paid workers which just goes to show how naive they are. Our government therefore need to do two things urgently 1. bring in a proper redundancy law to protect all workers 2. all members of the states MUST be voted in with by an island wide vote and stop this stupid scenario whereby people can fail to get in as a senator, like deputy Sothern, but can be elected as deputy with a couple of hundred votes, it’s quite ridicules’
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Joker, it doesn’t make any difference that they are 2 different things. We need low price supermarkets here and the States or the JCRA won’t do anything about it.
You say the UK big boys would be straight in, are they allowed? I really don’t know. Do they not need licences/permission to trade etc first? from the States?? Can they just come in and start trading?
All I am talking about is a level playing field.
You failed to mention the JEC, Jersey Gas etc?? Happy with your high energy bills? I wish i had a choice.
As for Condor it’s a bloomin disgrace. Within hours of HD going down the pan, Condors website was offline. Hmmmmm i wonder why.
There was a lot of “dirty tricks” around at that time too. Licence questioning, “random”safety inspections etc. Wonder who instigated that??
You sort of answered my question by saying another ferry operator wasn’t sustainable. It isn’t in Telcos either, Airtel are a VERY big fish and have lots of financial backing.
What do the JCRA do?
Not a lot apart from ruin the local Telco market.
We won’t even go there with who’s on the staff at the JCRA.
@ Mike, yep agree with the redundancy thing, at least JT have something in place. Although when a close member of family in Finance got made redundant a few years ago, she got a bumper pay out. 3 or 4 times the JT package. It must depend where you work and how you are thought of perhaps. The states are dragging their heels again with the law.
But at least they will get something at JT.
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Ref Mike #69 You are completely wrong! The JT staff being made redundant get 3 weeks for each year, to a maximum of 52 weeks pay plus 10%, not 15 weeks. I don’t know where you get your info from, but it is flawed
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Adrian wrote: “Condor need sorting out as I am concerned. The only time they have competitive prices is when there is competition to them”.
How refreshing to see that Adrian has come round at last to acknowledging the advantages and the virtues of commercial competition – at last.
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Get a gripe #64
Simple answer to that one; Food retail and telecos are two completely different markets, not to mention one already has several well established retailers in and the other had none. If they thought it was worth their while you can be sure the agressive UK supermarkets would already be here in their objective of dominating the world. Problem for Jersey is they rely on huge outlets for economies of scale so they can afford low margins which is why they are so much cheaper. Jersey is not a place where low margins can be achieved easily due to the small number of people, lack of physical space and the issue of shipping all the goods over whilst ensuring quality control. All this means they’d probably lose money if they charged UK prices here. To adapt their strategy for the Jersey market simply isn’t worth the hassle for the market share they’d achieve, so they bypass us and go straight for Europe/US. M&S do well here because their strategy is not high turnover low margin, it’s lower turnover high margin which works perfectly in Jersey.
Telecos do not require anywhere near the same level of logistics, new companies are tapping into existing infrastructure and where needed installing large capital items that are delivered once and last years. The handsets are cheap because they’ve already bought hundreds of thousands of them at a low fixed price and all that’s required is to ship several hundred over here. To make life easier their stock doesn’t need to be replenished every single day and they make greater margins per unit of sale than supermarkets do. You’re right, 4 telcos companies is OTT and expect competition to weed some out.
Condor v HD. HD may have been cheaper but that clearly wasn’t sustainable otherwise they’d still be here.
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I am sorry about the redundancies at Jersey Telecom, I myself was made redundant a few years ago (from finance) and it is not very nice at all. But we do need more competition over here, in the phone service and we need more choices in food shopping. I am fed up of seeing advertiesments on t.v. for lots of nice food items on offer at Tesco, Waiterose, Asda etc., and my local Co-op have been doing the same old items for about 20 yrs now. Also, regarding M&S, they were advertising one of those ‘Meals with Wine for £10′ the other week, so I went to the store in St Clement only to be told ‘oh we don’t do those offers here’. That is utterly wrong, if it is advertised in the media then they should honour it. We want more choice please… and we want it now.
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So Miro where is the competition to Condor then? It hasn’t worked in this case has it?
Utilities should be state owned they are a different kettle of fish to the average business. What do you think will happen if the waterworks were privatised completely? You would be paying for sewage disposal. Fancy that?
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HD Ferries did not pull out of the Channel Islands trade because of competition.
Their ships were constantly laid up, or working inefficiently, because of chronic maintenance problems that affected passengers’ safety.
Their captains were not trained on the sea approaches to St Helier, and a States pilot had to board every HD vessel off La Corbiere.
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Adrian #75
The point of making the utilities commercial operations is to drive efficiency and provide better value for the customer (which is what’s starting to happen at JT). You may think that’s not worked but many would disagree with you. You only have to look at the average moan on these HYS to see that people think the States are inefficient compared to private business.
Popeye the Sailor #76
May be, but poor maintenance and reliability is often the result of under funding, or trying to do things on the cheap to undercut a competitor. Perhaps their staff weren’t as highly paid either to mitigate their lack of qualification. If I were a captain who was qualified to dock I would ask more salary than those that were not. Paying less for their staff may have back fired on them as they hadn’t factored in the cost of a States pilot to dock the vessel for them. Clearly I’m speculating here but it I think it’s reasonable assumption.
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Sorry No76 I travelled HD ferries regularly never saw Corbiere on my journeys!
HD ferries were not given any subsidy from the States and in all my travelling with them I never once thought my safety was at risk! I travelled with HD throughout my pregnancy from the begining until my final eight weeks and the staff looked after me, even carried my sleeping six year old from the car deck to the seating area!
They looked after their customers! I have never had a problem with JT either and my broadband rate is excellent!
Jersey will realise what its lost once its gone and I will follow the thread which will probably appear then with interest.
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