Living in exile
Saturday 14th November 2009, 3:00PM GMT.
From Alison Le Cornu.
I AM writing to raise awareness of the impact that the severance of the reciprocal health agreement is having on Jersey people living in the UK.
While I appreciate that no sensible agreement might have been attainable, I now find myself in a very curious as well as inconvenient position.
I have two pre-existing medical conditions which, although not likely to incur any significant risk to insurance companies, all the agencies I have approached (ten thus far) bar one have refused to cover.
I was beginning to resign myself to having to come to Jersey to be with family for Christmas without appropriate medical insurance, until I found an agency who would cover these conditions (at a significant cost), but who would not cover me if I was coming to Jersey and staying in non-bookable accommodation.
They would insure me if I was staying in bookable accommodation, such as a hotel, but not if I was staying with friends or family. The situation did not apply in the reverse, and they would have insured Jersey residents who were travelling to the UK to stay in non-bookable accommodation.
I am therefore still in the position of not being able to come to Jersey to visit relatives over the Christmas period unless I take the risk of coming without the necessary medical insurance.
I can only urge the States to do all they can to address a situation which is effectively exiling the Island’s own people.
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Does a similar arrangement apply to Jersey politicians who place themselves “en defaut indéterminé en Angleterre”?
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It is absolutely disgraceful that as as Jersey born person i am not allowed to receive treatment in England when on Holiday’s etc
Jersey politicians who allowed this to happen are a disgrace and should be thrown out of the States
Just anther example of how the States fail to look after locals, you cant blame England when Jersey was overcharging them for years!!!
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Take the risk and if anything happens to you just roll up at the hospital.
If they won’t treat you, raise the “Clameur de Haro”.
Metaphorically, at least.
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Why is this an English/Jersey problem?
We live on the continent and have had travel insurance for about thirty years, at first when the children were young I paid (then) about40 pounds for a family of five with every thing covered for a max of ten? weeks.
Now as we are just two of us I pay a yearly subscription of about 18 pounds each with one of the BIg Health and Travel insurance providers, They know that I have health problems , one of which is a Stroke a couple of years ago.
What I cannot under stand is people in the UK having problems getting travel insurance and when,at a far exorbitant cost, The only worry I have is when I come up to “The 65 age time” but then I would be covered by the EU agreement, I just cannot understand that UK Insurers charge vastly more for travel cover…
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Michael has protested, “It is absolutely disgraceful that as as Jersey born person i am not allowed to receive treatment in England when on Holiday’s etc”.
A few simple questions, if I may, Michael:
** Do you pay UK National Insurance contributions?
** If you do not, why should the UK taxpayers have to pay for your fecklessness?
** Moreover, what God-given right do you have to any sort of services paid for out of UK taxes?
Our political leaders brought about the abrogation of the reciprocal health care agreement, so perhaps you should direct your anger to the Minister of Health and – of course – to our oh-so-clever Chief Minister.
I am sure that you do not need to be reminded that Jersey is a Crown Dependency, and not a component part of the United Kingdom. Highly inconvenient for you, perhaps, but that has been the case since 1204.
UK residents pay through their noses for any treatment they may require while in Jersey. Health insurance covers the cost of this.
Get off your high horse, Michael and get real – and get some health insurance when you travel.
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Magnolia Man Quote
“Our political leaders brought about the abrogation of the reciprocal health care agreement, so perhaps you should direct your anger to the Minister of Health and – of course – to our oh-so-clever Chief Minister”
I think you are the one who needs to get off his high horse as you stated above we did have a very good reciprocal health this was paid by every Jersey taxpayer of which I am one
This was allowed to end by our goverment and indeed our health minister and Chief Minister at that time, also there were allegations made in the JEP that Jersey had been overcharging the UK for many years
The rest of your comments have no bearing or relevance the point I was making be happy!!
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Michael,
Thank you for your response.
Would you show me, please, where did I state that in my earlier comment “we did have a very good reciprocal health this was paid by every Jersey taxpayer of which I am one”.
You went on to admit that the “very good reciprocal health this was paid by every Jersey taxpayer of which I am one . . . was allowed to end by our goverment (sic) and indeed our health minister and Chief Minister at that time.”
So, getting back to your original complaint, Michael, why “is [it] absolutely disgraceful that as as Jersey born person i am not allowed to receive treatment in England when on Holiday’s etc”?
You concluded your message by stating, “The rest of your comments have no bearing or relevance the point I was making”. On the contrary, Michael: they serve to prove my point and the absurdity of yours.
Why should UK taxpayers pay for your health tourism any more than they would pay for the health requirements of a visitor from, say, Nigeria or the United States?
Blame, if there is any, must be laid squarely with the States of Jersey health administration for its neglect in letting the reciprocal agreement slip. In the meantime, there are plenty of excellent insurance brokers in St Helier.
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@ Magnolia Man # 7
“…Blame, if there is any…”
I hardly think there is any reason to apportion blame anywhere; there was an agreement that was fair and suited all parties, then times changed and the agreement was no longer fair. I’d feel more angry with my government had they tried to continue with an unfair system.
I feel sorry for the letter writer who finds they can’t get insurance, and maybe the answer would be for the Health Department to offer health insurance to those who would qualify for ‘free’ healthcare in Jersey to travel outside; not sure if it would be practical to offer incoming visitors similar cover, but it could be an option too.
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#7 In fairness to Michael, I took his comments to mean that he thinks Jersey should in some way continue to pay for any care he receives while in holiday in the UK, not UK taxpayers.
I see no reason why Jersey and the UK could not simply have agreed that when someone visits their land (for holiday or study) that any medical care needed is free at source and the true cost is passed back to their own government. They could even have agreed set charges for each aspect of care so each land charged the other the same.
I was screwed over just because I happened to fall in love with a Jersey man. People say ‘get insurance’ likes it’s that easy. Maybe it is for them, but, like the writer, having pre-existing conditions makes it virtually impossible for me. I can get one-year insurance and each year I have to re-declare any conditions, at some point I may just not be allowed insurance!
The most stupid thing about it is that the nature of my conditions means that I have NEVER needed urgent help, I have happily gone on holiday for decades and have never needed to see a doctor or go to hospital! The insurance is just specific enough to charge me through the nose but not specific enough to realise that I am as likely to need medical help while on holiday as any perfectly healthy person!!!!!
It’s a rip off and it’s appalling and the States (and the UK Government) need to do something about how medical insurance cover is charged.
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Alison, my insurance (for when I travel abroad, including the UK) DOES require me to be staying in paid for accommodation. All the policies I looked at did. I will be staying with family when in the UK, and I will probably just book the cheapest youth hostel/B&B I can find for the duration of my stay (but not use it).
I understand the need to prevent ‘medical tourism’ but this is Jersey (and the UK) not some country with substandard medical care. There is no need for a UK citizen to come to Jersey as a medical tourist or vice versa! Insurance companies need to get real.
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@ Leah Holmes #10
So you’re okay with insurance fraud then? It’s because of insurance fraud, in part, that the premiums are so high for the rest of us honest folk; thanks.
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The link between insurance companies and paid for accommodation is probably down to “You scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours”.
Chambers of Commerce and and all that sort of thing.
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@ R B Bougourd #12
I don’t think that there’s any collusion between insurers and hotels etc., I think the clause is to separate holiday travel cover, from annual health insurance policies which carry significantly different risks.
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This whole ludicrous situation again simply shows how inept the idiots ‘In the big house’ are. Driven by money and greed, they knew they were overcharging the UK, and now they have reaped the rewards, no health care north of Alderney. It wont affect them in the slightest, but as usual the poor old average man in the street will have to fork out for extra insurance cover. Voter apathy you say, well no surprise there then!
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Alison could always come back to Jersey for good! Nobody forces her to stay in England
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Insurance companies aren’t there to help you but to make money, as I found out when I got a mortgage, because I might die before debt was paid off no-one would touch me, in the end someone did, but do I pay a hefty insurance. That’s the way of the world
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I have the same problem in reverse.
I have multiple sclerosis and I’ve been unable to get travel insurance for less than £500 p.a. and that travel insurance doesn’t cover me for travel within the UK unless I’ve booked at least 2 nights accomodation in advance, so basically I have no cover, I just keep my fingers crossed that I won’t need medical treatment while visiting friends and relatives in the UK.
When the reciprocal health care agreement was removed, Jersey politicians advised Jersey residents to take out travel insurance when travelling to the UK, but I don’t think they were even aware that the small print for most travel insurance policies stipulates that you have to book accomodation to have UK travel insurance cover and you’re not covered if you’re just staying with friends or family.
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The States Of Jersey should have bought a blanket insurance policy to cover those Jersey residents travelling to the UK who are elderly and those with pre-exisiting medical conditions who can’t get travel insurance.
But when asked about that back in April (http://www.thisisjersey.com/community/island-life/end-of-reciprocal-health-agreement-with-ukfaqs/), Jersey Health chief executive Mike Pollard explained that his department was not ‘in the business of providing travel insurance.’ ‘The guiding operating principle is user pays,’ he said. ‘The people who want to travel are the people who should pay for their travel costs.’
I’m all for the user pays principle, but the way Jersey residents were simply told to buy travel insurance shows a lack of compassion for those who can’t get travel insurance at a realistic price. It suggests to me that they didn’t even consider that not everyone can get covered.
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Why would the UK government ever be interested in continuing the agreement when it was costing the UK taxpayer millions, mainly, as it turns out, because Jersey was allegedly ‘cooking the books’ and overcharging the UK?
What goes around comes around!
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Please forgive my ignorance – Jersey local I’m afraid, hence none too bright. Thank you for pointing out my absurdity – this way I am sure I will learn in future. Ignorance is a terrible thing to suffer from – but I will try to do better in future.
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The (former) Chief Executive Officer of Health, Mike Pollard, was interviewed on BBC Radio Jersey on 11 March 2009. The presenter, Roger Bara, gave him an extremely easy ride over the cessation of the reciprocal health agreement between the UK and Jersey.
Our erstwhile health czar said, among other things, that:
(1) UK Visitors, if they need special services involving a hospital stay apart from Outpatients will be treated first (without consideration of whether they can afford the treatment) which he rightly said was the moral position to take.
He did not say how they would be asked to pay the final bill, and what would happen if they had no suitable travel insurance, or indeed, if they died over here.
Would there be an option to pay the huge sums involved by installments? What if they were on low wages, or unemployment benefit?
Nearly eight months have elapsed. I am sure this is being worked out, but it would have good to have more details, especially as it seems that procedures only began to be worked out after Jim Perchard failed to negotiate a continuation of the reciprocal agreement, which was late in the day.
Did no one think it likely he might not have success, especially given Dawn Primarolo’s tendency to be intransigent over EU tax harmonisation applying to Jersey when she was Paymaster General?
(2) He said that insurance for Jersey people travelling to the UK was being sorted out, and comprehensive travel insurance packages would be available even for exceptional cases.
Pollard was not pressed on the JEP article just of 10 March which reported Daphne Minihane as noting that there simply was no travel insurance available for those over 79.
That is a shame because a search of insurance policies revealed that most go only up to age 79 (and no more than 90 days at a time), but I finally tracked down several which go to 99 years old.
Giving details would have been more reassuring that just saying “ring this number for help” which is what he did.
And here we are, eight months down the line, and still nothing has been resolved.
Pointing the finger of blame towards Mike Pollard is useless. He resigned, very suddenly indeed, without any explanation being offered for his precipitate behaviour.
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Granted, the reciprocal health care agreement clearly came to an end because it was costing the UK too much – apart from the fact that Jersey’s charges were perhaps excessive, I suspect that there were far more UK residents requiring treatment in Jersey than Jersey residents requiring treatment in the UK.
But the point now is, since the agreement did end, the Jersey Social Security Department ought to take steps of their own to protect Jersey residents who travel to the UK and can’t get travel insurance due to their age and/or pre-existing health conditions.
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