Head teachers fight back
Saturday 21st November 2009, 3:00PM GMT.
The Education Scrutiny meeting. Picture: Matthew Hotton (008836999)
HEADTEACHERS mounted a robust defence of methods used in States secondary schools to deal with pupils with difficulties, when they appeared before a Scrutiny panel yesterday.
They said that the States school were better at handling students with behavioural problems than the fee paying sector.
Haute Vallée head Bob Fairhurst said fee paying schools tended to ‘take the moral high ground’ and, for example, expelled pupils for possessing cannabis.
‘We take those students and rehabilitate them,’ he said. ‘I have had four or five children from that sector in nine years. But you could say that the child is better off with us anyway as we are better set up for dealing with the issues they may have.’
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I think it’s called closing ranks !!!
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The headteachers mounted a robust defense however thirty per cent of the children leaving primary school are illiterate It is a a madness that we have to suspend tax payers’ workers on full pay for possibly several years before we can show them the door.
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The head teachers “said that the States school were better at handling students with behavioural problems than the fee paying sector”.
These are doubtless fine words, but evidence of concrete and tangible results would resound far better in the ears of the public.
In the meantime, frustrated parents and taxpayers alike await the outcome of this “better handling”.
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I get the impression that the Head Teachers have got Pitman measured up accurately. Pitman and his JDA friends use scrutiny to disrupt, destabilise and create unrest. He/they are not interested in real service improvement at all. Pitman frankly is an embarrassment to scrutiny and Jersey politics.
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It has been stated that thirty per cent of the children leaving primary school are illiterate.
Can I ask where the parents are of these 30%.
If my child couldn’t read or write I would be bringing it to the attention of his teachers and ensuring that by the time he could leave primary school, he could read and write.
Unless of course these 30% of parents are too busy down the pub to notice?
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The reason we have so many CHAVS is that the State system is vastly inferior to the Private.
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Big Bean #
Awful as it may seem, I fear you may be correct !
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I would expect pupils to be expelled for having cannabis on them at school. Maybe it is this sort of lax attitude that is causing the problems we have on the island now?
If rehabilition means 30% illiteracy then I would have to say that these pupils are not better off at states school.
Private schools always out performed the states schools when I was young. It was the same when my children went to school. I doubt very much it has changed.
Parents also have to shoulder their share of the blame for this. Maybe a bit more encouragement shown to their children and backing up of the teachers might have made a difference.
Education is such a vital part of modern life today, those with little or none are at a big disadvantage in the work place.
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Adrian.
By expelling a pupil you are only shifting the problem onto someone else, rather than dealing with it.
I thouroughly applaud Mr Fairhursts approach in wanting to work with that child and rehabilitate them. By doing this you are helping that child to change their behaviour.
I do agree with your other comments in paragraphs 3 – 5 however.
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#5, totally agree!
#6, couldn’t agree less. Being a ‘chav’ is not to do with your schooling. In general chav parents are less likely to be able to afford private school so that would explain why private schools may have less chavs, but make no mistake, there will be plenty chav children born to famous footballers and pop stars, and they’ll probably go to private school. And having met plenty of private school kids over the decades, the ‘chav’ factor is just replaced by the utter ‘brat’ factor, which isn’t any better in my opinion. Some private school kids are taught to believe that they are better than adults that didn’t go to private school (inc. their own teachers) and treat such people with contempt. Hardly a good quality in a child. Give me a State school child over a private school child anyday!
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What a waste of time. What on earth were the headmasters doing there indeed. Pitman should take his publicity stunts elsewhere.
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“The reason we have so many CHAVS is that the State system is vastly inferior to the Private”
No, Andy. Absolutely not.
The Chav mentality begins at home, not in the school room.
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Haute Vallée head Bob Fairhurst said fee paying schools tended to ‘take the moral high ground’ and, for example, expelled pupils for possessing cannabis.
Can you imagine? A private school punishing a pupil for something they’ve done wrong. What on earth were they thinking?
We take those students and rehabilitate them,’ he said. ‘I have had four or five children from that sector in nine years. But you could say that the child is better off with us anyway as we are better set up for dealing with the issues they may have.’
Four or five children in nine years?? Isn’t that a ridiculously low number over the course of nine years?
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My understanding is that a ‘chav’ is a person who pretends to be what they are not. There are more ‘chavs’ among adults than children.
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Mike @ 11 A waste of time…why were Head Teachers there? Schools with over 200 separate suspensions demand investigation as to the reasons; as does the reality that in contrast others are down in the 40s. Just as do the facts behind parents contacting Scrutiny regarding their children being suspended due to what are problems actually arising from medical and/or learning issues.
As both I and the panel see it there are three key aspects to ensuring we have the best education system we can when it comes to the issue of suspensions 1. 29 students do not have to have their education suffer due to the problems caused by one. 2. Teachers are given all the tools and support necessary to do their work. 3. Students and the parents of those suspended, particularly in the instances of students suspended due to underlying medical/learning problems, are also given every support to continue their education. ‘A waste of time?’ ‘Publicity stunt?’Hardly.
Joel @ 4. If trying to ensure all of the above makes me an ‘embarrassment’ to Scrutiny/politics then I am very happy to be so. I’m sure the rest of the panel would say the same. Its actually called trying to do your best for people.
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I am struggling here to see exactly what people are complaining about. It definitely deserves investigating when exceedingly high numbers of suspensions occur and if this investigation happened behind closed doors the same people who are head hunting the scrutiny panel in this circumstance would be saying that the whole affair was being master minded by the powers that be.
A school regardless of it’s social standing does not have the right to ‘take a moral high ground’ nor should a school with a perhaps lower social standing be forced to deal with the results of such actions. I would hope that the point of this debate would be primarily to identify where these issues are happening and then secondly what action either to the school or the student is in the best interests of them both.
This was and is not a debate around which type of establishment creates this or that type of child, this is about protecting students from draconian judgement and equally protecting the establishments from unfair media when they make a call, be it in favour or against a student.
We all have a moral obligation to ensure that the students of Jersey gain the best education that the island can provide and that is not done by someone sitting in a room making their decision based upon their own personal experiences, hence a scrutiny panel.
Regardless of a students social standing or that of the establishments that form them into adults, they deserve to be treated in an equal and fair way. Unless someone wants to correct me there?
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My concern Mr Pitman, is that you have highlighted something which to be honest is pretty small fry(obviously not to the individuals concerned) when you actually look at the successes and failures of the education system in Jersey. What are your credentials to deal with and understand educational issues, and the minister for ESC for that matter?? That you went to school once, a long time ago? Anything else? There are vital issues in education which need to be seen alongside this one bone of contention. Seen seperately, outside the contrast in demography, spending, ethos and curriculum in each State and public/private school makes the one issue of school suspensions a bit irrelevant. We are facing a future where eductaion is more important than ever before. There is no such thing as a job for life when you leave school, no definite career path, but we still stick to an outdated model of educating and education. School suspensions needs to be seen alongside a whole range of issues facing our young people. May I suggest you buy Saturday’s Guardian newspaper and watch the free film ‘we are the people we’ve been waiting for’ about the grave problems facing our educational system. Might help broaden your perspective. That goes to all of you concerned with such matters!
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Hello Blueskythinking.
My ‘credentials’ for understanding educational issues? Well, I would hope that being a professionally qualified educator employed by ESC prior to my election might help a bit. As for ‘understanding the ESC MInister’ Mmmm? I think you might find that actually neither the Minister for ESC, or either of his Assistant Ministers come to that are from an ‘educational’ background, though all of us, of course, have different skills to bring that can be positive.
But more important than any of this – whether on the Executive or Scrutiny – is having a commonsense approach; and for us also following the Scrutiny process based on gathering evidence from a variety of sources. This the panel has been doing. If Helier Clemant thinks we’re doing exactly the job Scrutiny was meant to do as he wrote in his column just recently then who am I to argue!
But more seriously you mention how suspensions must be viewed alongside a number of issues that face young people and I fully agree. However, with due respect you don’t seem to appreciate that ‘suspensions’ is the issue that we are charged with investigating here and as such we must remain within the terms of reference. I repeat, this is what the panel has been doing. But very happy to discus further if you wish. Also most interested to know of your ‘credentials’ as maybe you can contribute something useful to the inquiry.
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To answer ‘blueskythinking’ @ 17 regarding what Mr Pitman’s experience is, he was a youth officer working for the DfESC before his current position as a politician.
This concerns me even more as Mr Pitman, having had that experience, should be fully aware of the difficulties and challenges that face some schools when dealing with some of it’s pupils.
It seems that Mr Pitman has fallen into the trap of most politicians who think the only way to fix something is to publicly criticize.
When will politicians realize that the most effectve way in ensuring change is by working with people to try and resolve the issues together in a creative and constructive fashion.
Or does that not score as many political points
than openly condemning an oponents service.
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Big Bean @19. Unfortunately, you wholly miss the point of what has been happeneing thus far. The panel have been ‘working with’ both Ministry and department as per the Scrutiny process. As, apart from necessary ‘in private’ sessions to keep parents, or more specifically students identities secret, all of the sessions are held in public then of course the media will report on issues arising and ask further questions.
This in the panel’s view is just as it should be. I’m afraid that if you believe that covering up problem areas or sweeping them under the carpet is the way to go I can’t agree with you. As for your comment about political ‘point scoring’ I think that actually says far more about where you really may be coming from. If we were out to score points then we wouldn’t have taken the out of the norm step of arranging for some parents with deeply concerning experiences to meet the Minister personally – we would have just sat on matters until the publication of the final report.
We have acted because we are here to put the education of these young people and children first.
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One of my first income streams, before embarking on my current profession, was teaching foreign languages abroad.
I discovered very early that many of my ‘problem’ pupils exhibited similar traits: bright; articulate; inconsistent; easily frustrated; difficulty reading/writing (words and numbers).
So, in the vest of mentor, I started to evaluate these pupils in a concealed manner
(without putting them through stressful test situations) and I soon discovered that most of them showed strong signs of dyslexia.
Initially, I struggled through without voicing my findings (mainly because I was inexperienced and teaching at a fee-paying school…where many parents believed money bought brains). As a remedy (and also to avoid embarassment and ridicule), I only ever allowed the ‘sufferers’ to read quietly by my side and thus slowly (even jokingly) I brought the problem to their attention before approaching their parents…who then, in a concerted effort with the school, took the necessary steps.
Of course, levels of dyslexia vary, as do the connected behavioural traits. But there is one thing about dyslexics which is always consistent and that is frustration.
Therefore, before suspending pupils, teachers/headmasters should ensure that the low achievers/trouble causers are not – even mildly – dyslexic.
And before pointing an accusing finger (in any or every direction) parents should periodically verify the reading&writing skills of their children…an expedient tactic which often avoids the pain associated with rejection.
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Deputy Trevor Pitman
Are you the real Deputy Trevor Pitman?
We will never know.
You could be someone using that name as a Monica exposing views in an attempt to embarrass him, or maybe to make him look better.
Or then again you could be the real Deputy Trevor Pitman who wants to expose views that he could deny were his at a later date.
Quite a paradox for a poster on here who says its cowardly to hide behind a Monica.
To post or not to post ?
Perhaps my next post will be as Queen Elisabeth 2
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Who is Monica??
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PJG @ 22 No wonder they say that politicians can’t win whatever they do! I only comment on here from time to time because I have tried to answer questions raised by a number of people. I would have thought that this was a good thing whether people agree with my views or not?
Frankly your comments remind me of the scene in Monty Python’s Life of Brian when Brian is faced with the challenge ‘Only the true Messiah would deny that he is so!’ or words to that effect – not seen it for a while so stand to be corrected. But should you doubt the above views are mine – please e-mail me PJG (go on, you can even use your real name – I won’t tell!)my e-mail address is on the States website and in the phone book t.pitman@gov.je
Oh, by the way, PJG no insult intended but as we’re talking about education just thought I would point out that your spelling of ‘Monica’ is incorrect. It should be moniker or even monicker with no capital m. Say PJG, this has made me think…you don’t conceal your ID because you are a right-wing politician by any chance, do you? I guess we will never know to use your words…
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Deputy Trevor Pitman #24
Just pointing out that even if you do post under your own name (even with a link to some bodies email address) anonymity and deniability can still be maintained. So to insinuate people are cowards who need to protect their anonymity possibly to protect their loved ones by association (there could be many reasons, the point is YOU do not know them)could be called hypocrisy, intended or not, not an endearing quality in a politician.
If you are the real Deputy Trevor Pitman at least you can now include being a spelling monitor as one of the “credentials’ for UNDERSTANDING educational issues” asked for by Blueskythinking.
I am not normally one to appreciate your thinking, I completely disagree for example that your advocated name and shame will work (I don’t think it goes far enough and will encourage a badge of honour culture).
But your comment (if you are the real Deputy Trevor Pitman)
“As both I and the panel see it there are three key aspects to ensuring we have the best education system we can when it comes to the issue of suspensions 1. 29 students do not have to have their education suffer due to the problems caused by one. 2. Teachers are given all the tools and support necessary to do their work. 3. Students and the parents of those suspended, particularly in the instances of students suspended due to underlying medical/learning problems, are also given every support to continue their education.”
Sounds good to me, Do you think this is achievable, especially #2 ?
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I find it incredible that people without direct experience feel so qualified to comment.
Unless you have worked in that environment, which I have locally, you cannot fully understand it.
The working conditions of many States employed teachers are appalling, the ESC committee does not back schools when a “child with difficulties” is encountered.
The borders between schooling and parenting are heavilly blurred. Behaviour and manners or criminality are not the fault of schools, these are parenting issues. Teachers are routinely being used as scapegoats by failing parents and a political system that won’t admit that Jersey has massive social problems, perhaps down to poverty, cutlural clashes and a refusal to place responsibility for children on the parents.
Fee paying schools have the luxury of expulsion, which states schools do not. Makes life a tad easier I should imagine.
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PJG @25 . Yes, I do think that No. 2 is achievable – provided the political will is there. This obviously includes the will to take on board that sometimes we have to invest – even in difficult economic times – to reap much greater financial benefits in the longer term. As per your mention of Blueskythinking: why not get in touch as he did in response to my invitation. His views were well worth having on the wider issue of education generally. As for the ‘naming’ issue. For me it is not really about ‘shaming’ it is about accountability and making young offenders understand that you need to ‘own’ your actions and take responsibility for them. A. Non @ 26: I can’t help but agree with much you say.However, I do have to say that it is not always parents who are at fault.
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I went to both private and public schools and there are chavs and bras everywhere!! As someone said earlier, your education is not behind your attitude or behaviour, that is the parents job and if the parent do not care that their children cannot read or write when they leave school, then there is only so much a teacher can do!!
Fair play to Mr Fairhurst for pushing forward and giving these kids a chance! Rehabilitation is the first step to creating a better future for him and i believe more schools should take his approach!!
More help from the parents of these kids or rehabilitation for the full family would be better idea!!
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