Judge labels Syvret a bully
Friday 27th November 2009, 3:00PM GMT.
Senator Stuart Syvret
SENATOR Stuart Syvret is a bully who picks on and harasses States employees, according to an independent report published today.
The report, by a UK employment judge, says that the States Employment Board have not taken a tough enough stance to defend employees from harassment through the Senator’s blog and by email, and that some have suffered ill-health as a result.
The judge says that he was shocked by the material on the blog and that if the Senator had been an ordinary employee, he would risk being sacked for gross misconduct. The judge added that the employees being harassed would have a good case for unfair dismissal against the States if they quit.
In his blog, the Senator has accused a number of States staff – some by name – of dishonesty, paedophilia, criminal acts, incompetence and cover-ups. The allegations mainly relate to staff who used to work for Senator Syvret when he was in charge of the Health Department.
• Full report in today’s Jersey Evening Post
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Wayhay! Here we go again!
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Tell us something we did not even know? Syvret lost the plot ages ago and thats why he talks such a load of rubbish. Mind you perhaps this is decision day for him now, give us all the evidence to your claims against these people or shut up! Pretty simple really isn’t it?
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How long are we going to carry on paying him?
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What do you expect a judge to say he is part of the establishment.
And how much did it cost to bring in this judge from UK?
S Syvet is the one who is bullied has been for some time for speaking out,
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With this confirmation of his bullying and the Judges comments about if he were an ordinary employee then he should be sacked. It is now time for the Bailiff as head of the States to sack Senator Syvret without further recourse.
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I strongly recommend any of Stuart Syvret’s remaining supporters to google “Syvret’s Blog” and read what amounts to the longest political suicide note in history…
Its very sad – he is clearly an intelligent man.
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What makes me sick is that terry le suer refuses to comment on most things. The incinerator… His only words about the jim perchard comment to Stuart Syvet was.. This matter is now over. But today he is all over the news slagging Stuart off. Pathetic. TAUFU as usual
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Why did the judge not ask why Stuart was accusing all these people of doing these things and suggesting an inquiry?
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He has been called a bully by an Establishment appointed judge.
Do we feel sorry for the civil servants – poor underpaid souls! SS may have been forceful in his questioning and trying to ascertain facts, WoW, he may even have got angry with frustration, but not one civil servant has had the b****x to complain openly or take action in relation to this alleged ‘bullying’.
We have one side of the story in the only paper in the Island (pro-establishment). Now read the other side and judge with an open mind.
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So he had to use bullying tactics to expose the truth about Jersey – anybody with intelligence can see that this is another sad attempt by the Establishment to villify a man who has the courage to voice an opposition to what he sees as grave injustices against a vast majority of Jersey residents
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No different from any other politician then!!!
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Lets think very carefully about your comment Bella (5). The Syvret crowd always bang on about the Jersey establishment but how on earth do you figure that this independent UK (as in England) judge is somehow part of it. Absolute nonsense.
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Syvret is a thoroughly nasty piece of work with a band of followers too dumb to see him for what he really is, a bully and a liar. The sooner he is out of the States the better for Jersey. His childish antics have been tolerated for too long.
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What this island needs is an independent enquiry to sort this mess out once and for all.
Oh, hang on a minute, we’ve had that. The thing is though, unless the results are what Syvret wants to hear, he will carry on throwing wild unfounded, accusations around. How much money has been spent on outside agencies, from the police brough over to investigate the HDLG fiasco, to Williamson, to this latest one. All of which have produced findings to counter argue Syvret’s claims.
When will this man realize that the best thing he can do is shut up once and for all.
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It sounds like something from the mid nineteen thirties when a megalomaniac soft tongued the proletariat into voting him into power. He then tried to rule the world by bullying and worse.There is only one way to treat a bully and that is to stand up to him. Fortunately this this sad little tyrant has only cost millions of pounds and not millions of lives. Being small I was bullied as a child but once I had learned the secret of survival I started to protect other bullied children. It is high time that Syvret was taken around to the back of the bike shed.
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Anyone who speaks out in the states is just stamped on. No wonder we are in this mess….
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who commissioned this report..? and in whose favour does it find……this is exactly the same as the police investigating the police or asking the constables to vote to remove the constables….it is transparent to an embarrassing degree. with power should come integrity the burden of correct behaviour is upon those who rule…in this case they have contrived to criticise someone who criticises them,,,so a ganging up if you will. if what he was saying was defammatory why was he not taken to court over it…and whether he is correct or not truth is either side have got stuff wrong…..sniping,law bending and spending so much from the public purse to save face as it were is disgusting. the desire of the establishment to portray the face of Jersey as flawless at all times is globally embarrassing.it is time to stand up and grow up ..no none will ever respect secrecy at an official level, witch hunts and our attempts at it are cringemaking.
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To me this is a one sided rant at Senator Syvret.
Personally, if someone wanted to create a large amount of publicity for the Senator’s blog I don’t think he could have done a better job if he had tried, and it hasn’t cost a penny in advertising!
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[Scratches head in puzzlement]
Would someone kindly explain to me how a fugitive from justice, a failed carpenter who manipulates and plays on the emotions of his handful of supporters, can claim any further respect on this island, or anywhere else for that matter?
Mister Syvret is now in his sixth week of hiding in the UK. The reason (or so he told us) for running away from Jersey was to importune Jack Straw for the justice he alleges is denied to him here.
In spite of repeated demands on his web site from cynics and supporters alike, Mister Syvret continues to evade requests for information on the success or otherwise of his “mission” to obtain justice.
Would the States Greffier please tell us the procedures for a senatorial bye-election?
The sooner this takes place the better it will be for Jersey – and probably for Stuart Syvret as well.
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The misconception that “concerned” puts regarding the powers of the bailiff as speaker [not head] of the states adds weight to the argument that the bailiff, as chief justice of the island, should not be in the states at all.
The further remark regarding the possible sacking of syvret [elected member] by the bailiff [unelected] is even more misconceived and could not, fortunately, happen.
The day that a judge can dismiss a senior politician who is also, let us not forget, father of the house will be the day that any last vestige of democracy as might exist in the precincts of the states building has truly vanished!
Let us hope that, whatever does happen to Syvret, it will be in accordance with due process and proper, elected and accountable administration.
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What a silly and tendentious headline. Christopher Chapman is not a ‘Judge’ in the sense that most people understand it. He is a ‘part-time employment judge’.
You could equally call Simon Cowell a ‘Judge’ because he is a judge on X-Factor.
Why was Mr Chapman not paid that large amount of money to actually investigate Syvret’s detailed allegations against the people he has named? If they were found to be baseless, then the States could have done something to silence him.
As it is, we are left to assume that Syvret, as he repeatedly claims, has sufficient evidence and witnesses to corroborate all his allegations.
It will be a great day for Jersey if all of that gets aired in a public court, but of course, all that will happen is that the Judge will disallow the evidence, as happened in his recent trial.
Thanks for the impartial reporting, once again.
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Oh dear more tax payers money being spent on yet another investigation. Would it not of been cheaper and healthier for all, perhaps if there had been an investigation into the health dept. at the very begining of all this. It was only a short time ago your front page was exposing the fact that childrens services were not fit for purpose. I feel a lot of money has been wasted going in a complete circle, as that was the original criticism from Stuart Syvret. Are we now going on to a second lap of this circle.
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So what you are saying is it,s ok to be subjected to an unlawful police raid with no search warrant?He has been systematically derided jeered and verbally abused for the crime of telling the truth to the public.
Some of you would be quite happy to see him put in stocks for his “crimes” for trying to bring these henious villians to account.
If those whom he has named on his blog are innocent why don,t they sue him for defamation of character?
He left on nov 4 not 6 weeks ago as i saw him the day before.
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Oh for crying out loud!! Take him back please!! I suppose now he will banging on to the press over here. Mr Syvret, do something useful, just dissappear!
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Having read Stuart Syvret’s blog, he displays all the symptoms of passive aggression. I can easily see that his description of others is tantamount to bullying.Psychological bullying which is really quite insidious.
Bella # 24, why doesn’t Stuart Syvret sue people who have said disparaging or belittling about him?
He has belittled many people with merely anecdotal evidence. If he thinks he is right, why doesn’t he apply to the European Court of Human Rights?
He has done little for safeguarding children as his often unfounded comments have made the public suspicious of the procedures for reporting child abuse. There are now potentially more people who are less likely to report things to the authorities than before his crazy crusade.
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At last a respected judge has investigated this farce and shown once and for all that Syvret has made it all up.
Thankfully all the people who have been falsly accused can now have their day in court to clear their names. If the States won’t give them legal aid to do so, the JEP could set up a fund to help them and we can all contribute.
That will shut his supporters up and we can draw a line under this travesty.
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Stuart a bully? Very funny!!!
Sticks and stones come to mind and if some are offended or have suffered ill health by the writings on Stuart’s blog, then they have no-one else to blame but themselves.
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Anyone who advises the Bailiff to try and dismiss Stuart Syvret is telling him to finish off his own role in the States.
Stuart Syvret may be elected under the wonky Jersey system but he can claim a popular mandate of sorts. The Bailiff is appointed and has no political mandate at all.
The members of the States could never allow the Bailiff to dismiss any member as this would open themselves up to possible dismissal by an unelected official.
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Thank you Rob Kent (comment 22)for saying exactly what I think.I would also like to add that I feel no sympathy for these poor “bullied” civil servants as they could leave their jobs if things were that bad as I had to do in Jersey when I suffered a form of bullying by a woman who simply decided after being a “friend” for years that I would be her latest victim (yes she did it time after time but still works at the same company to this day!)Furthermore if anyone ever suggested that I or a member of my family was a paedophile I would be personally fighting him in every way possible whatever the financial cost as I would value my reputation above everything.
Like Rob Kent I would love this all to be exposed in court but don’t think the powers that be would allow it.Strange that isn’t it?
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This is a UK judge, paid presumably for his “advice” by the States.
Obviously not a bright judge if he adivises that “employees being harassed would have a good case for unfair dismissal against the States if they quit”.
No understanding of the lack of fair employment laws in Jersey. If Stuart and others want to rehabilitate themselves in the eyes of the electorate then this is what people like him need to fight for in Jersey.
The JNWW are laying off 25%of the workforce off 2 weeks before Christmass for higher shareholder (States 51%) returns will lead to poor service to the consumers in higher costs, unreliability and a general degradation in service.
Afterall you get what you pay for and we can all see the result of that in the States today.
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As another poster says one sided reporting from our biased newspaper again. Whilst even his most fervent supporters will not agree with all he says, we need people like Syvret in the States to challenge the old boy network who will simply push through their own ideas regardless for the people living in Jersey if left to their own devices .
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I would love to see these supporters come out with their real names now, I say with bated breath!
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Bella’s blind faith in her hero’s presence in Jersey on 3 November is touching but erroneous.
The Great White Hope of Jersey politics published his first “Letter from Exile” on Saturday, 24 October 2009. In that message he proudly told the faithful that he had flown (a very apposite word) to London on Monday 19 October.
A quick glance at the calendar shows that Mister Syvret has been absent without leave for more than five weeks. Monday will complete six weeks that Syvret has not shown his face in Jersey, abandoning his electors and his supporters leaving them disenfranchised. .
Unless the saviour of the masses took the trouble to write his ‘blog before running away from a couple of trifling charges we must assume that he was already in hiding in London.
Even if this Superman has developed supernatural powers, not even he can be in two places at once.
Today marks the completion of five complete weeks since the “Father of the House” abandoned his supporters and left them disenfranchised.
Doubtless, he is working on his Christmas speech. The question is whether he will be in the States Assembly to make it before the Christmas recess. Alternatively, will he skulk outside the jurisdiction of the Royal Court until 18 May, when he will be forced to forfeit his senatorial seat?
He was not a bad chippy: he should have stuck to that.
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Bella (24) “If those whom he has named on his blog are innocent why don’t they sue him for defamation of character?”
Why should these people have to prove their innocence?
Here’s an idea. If Senator Syvret is so certain that all the people he has named are guilty and if he has all the evidence to prove it why doesn’t he bring civil cases against them. I’m sure his vast army of supporters would be willing to contribute funds in the pursuit of justice.
Senator Syvret is making the allegations so it is up to him to prove their guilt, not forv them to prove their innocence.
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It is all very simple.
2 choices.
1. Senator Syvret should put up or shut up.
2. Those who say he has slandered them via his blog should sue him if they are innocent and have nothing to hide.
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Yes but at least he is a nice local boy!
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(18) truthseeker, i agree,
(22) rob kent , thanks for the information, it will be a great day for jersey, when all the evidence, from both sides is in the public domain, for those who want to read it, and draw their own conclusions.
sadly for both parties , this is going to drag on into 2010.
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‘Some of you would be quite happy to see him put in stocks for his “crimes”.’
If these “crimes” include abandoning his electors – then yes.
If these “crimes” include shameless self-publicity – then yes.
If these “crimes” include preying on the emotions of victims to further his own casreer – then yes.
Stuart Syvret is a spent force. His political career is finished. He is washed up.
The sooner he realises this, the better it will be for him, his family, his friends – and his constituents.
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Whilst I normally have no truck with such left wing politically correct nonsense as anti- bullying campaigns I feel I must make an exception in this case.
However much he was paid by our government to write this report, the island owes Judge Chapman an enormous debt of gratitude. It is a joy to hear a judge acknowledge the socially corrosive aspects of unrestrained freedom of speech.
It is intolerable that an elected politician should choose to use his position to hold our dedicated and hard working senior civil servants to account in such a manner.
Moreover, what makes Senator Syvret’s behaviour so outrageous is that he has chosen to victimize figures who are vulnerable by their status and prominence in our community.
I am not ashamed to say that I was reduced to tears on reading Senator Syvret’s vile diatribes against such upstanding pillars of our community.
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#34
I don.t do hero worshop,if i did i woul,nt have got the date wrong.
I just want fair play.
#35
Would,nt you take action if some-one accused you of these crimes with all the world to see?
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Quentin Smythe said, “Yes but at least he is a nice local boy!”
Hmmm. Well, I have to agree, Stuart Syvret IS a local boy. As for the rest . . .
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Someone had the temerity to mention on the Syvret web site that he had seen the great man on the London Underground one day last week, and that he was not looking very happy.
The amount of invective from Stuart Syvret was totally disproportional. After all, at least ONE person in London knew who he was.
Whether the British Government does is another matter entirely. Incidentally, I wonder if Syvret is still ‘persona non grata’ at 10 Downing Street?
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33 Alan
Posted November 28, 2009 at 9:33 am
I would love to see these supporters come out with their real names now, I say with bated breath!
Alan, hello. I’m Tony Gallichan. I support what Syvret is trying to do. You may care to breathe normally now.
Proud jerseyman – do you write all your replies here with Elgar’s Pomp and Circumstance playing at 11 in the background?
This report is essentially presented to the establishment as a tool for them tool for them to use. Thats all it was ever intended to be.
I admit, he can be a little… rough, sometimes, but after everything he’s seen and the way he’s been treated – proper bullying – I’m not at all surpised. To be honest, he’s behaved a hell of a lot better then I would have in his shoes.
If the people he has allegedly defamed have a problem, let them go to court to clear their names.
They won’t, of course. because if they do the real truth will come out…
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Proud Jerseyman Unfortunately I haven’t got a violin for you to play on.
As per this “judge”. Isn’t he just a chairperson of this committee and not actually a real judge? If he is a chairperson why not say so? Why the need to make him look grander than he is?
To me the front page headlines of
“Chairman labels Syvret a Bully”
doesn’t have the save gravitas at all.
Also why not use Senator Syvret in the title as this is what he is?
This looks like yet another way of belittling him and trying to undermine him, and make the authorities look good, as far as I am concerned.
Maybe a BBC radio London interview could be arranged between Senator Syvret and the authorities? Maybe both sides could lay out their “facts” and those listening could vote on who came across as most believable or credible?
Or even better still have people take a polygraph test to see who is lying. Surely if people have nothing to hide they would be happy to participate in a lie detector test to prove their point?
For those bleeting on about Senator Syvret not being in Jersey so what? As far as I am concerned he can go wherever he needs to, if he feels he can make a difference to things over here, by being elsewhere.
If people are worried about £43,000 I ask why aren’t they knocking on the government’s door and demanding action on all the over spends over here then? Or doesn’t this concern them as they support the establishment candidates?
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Stuart Syvret says in his blog today, “[he] and Mr. Chapman could thrash out the issues – live – head to head – from a BBC studio here in London – a discussion that BBC Jersey could relay as a normal Sunday Talk back”.
What was wrong with sending a civilly worded response to Christopher Chapman in response to his perfectly polite initial message, instead of the vituperative message quoted in the appendix to the Chapman report?
Senator Syvret made a serious strategic error there – and he knows it.
After all, as the French say, “You don’t catch flies with vinegar”. He had a golden chance there, and he blew it.
Yet another own goal. Sad, really.
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Peope ask why those that have been wrongly accused have not sued.
I know someone who has been accused of some terrible things on the blog and I asked them that very question sometime ago.
I was told that they had sought legal advise, and whilst in no doubt confident that they would win their case and successfully sue, it would cost a huge amount of money. Not thousands, not ten’s of thousands, but more like a hundred thousand.
The person I know doesn’t have that sort of money, and whilst being able to sue for costs, if the person you are suing doesn’t have the money, then it is a pointless exercise.
Whilst desperate to clear his name, it wasn’t worth losing his life savings, home and childrens college fund for.
Meanwhile, Syvret larges it up in London looking smug and trying to act clever whilst an innocent man continues to live in torment having been wrongly accused for something he didn’t do.
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One of Stuart Syvret’s most loyal supporters – a person for whom I have the utmost personal respect – wrote on the Syvret blog:
“Good God, the whole world must read all this and in disbelief that this is happening”.
Indeed, the whole world is appalled by the infantile behaviour of a politician with 19 years of legislative experience.
As “Father of the House” he should know better than to go and hide away, rather than face up to problems.
Good God, the whole world must read all this in disbelief that this is happening.
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Debbie #28 – Senator Syvret a bully? Yes. Funny? No.
To you and to Bella – there are none so blind as those who will not see. I’m reminded of the three monkeys(I s’pose there must be a third supporter somewhere). And all just as deluded as Syvret.
Can any of his supporters say how he is getting on with his “chat” in court with Jack Straw, or is Jack also in thrall to the “Jersey Establishment”?
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“Or even better still have people take a polygraph test to see who is lying. Surely if people have nothing to hide they would be happy to participate in a lie detector test to prove their point?”
If Mister Syvret could not even be bothered to send a polite or reasoned response to Chapman’s initial request for a meeting what chances are there for the Grouville One to submit to a lie detector test?
None whatsoever.
Mind you, he is bleating for a chance to express himself on BBC Radio Jersey – after the horse has bolted.
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Some people seem to denigrate Christopher Chapman by saying variously that he is a lackey and not a proper judge.
They should bother doing a Google search on him and they will say he is exactly what was written on the tin and more.
He lectures in Employment law as well and has written books on the subject.
Why should such a well known figure bother being biased?
The answer he isn’t and he raised serious concern over Syvret’s behaviour according to the remit he was given.
Unfortunately the pro-Syvret camp refuse to realise their demi-god is a busted flush who has far more harm than good to all the causes he espouses and he seeks to cover up his role at health when he was President and then latterly Minister thereof.
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39 Magnolia Man
You have got it all wrong again you should research your facts before publishing them
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Proud Jerseyman
I couldn’t agree more, how dare that little upstart Syvret bring this island and its people into disrepute.
He will never understand the sheer effort, time, hard work not to mention money that our beleaguered government have to spend to protect us and those that serve us from the ravages of his invective’
Thank you Senator Le Sueur and your fellow CoM for your sterling work.
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For those who denigrate Christopher Chapman as being an establishment figure, perhaps they could suggest one person whose opinion they would accept?
In this context, the “establishment” is no more than a lazy way of describing professional, unbiased, public-spirited individuals who have achieved prominence in life because they express themselves in a balanced way and make statements that they can support through evidence derived largely from comparative study.
If we want a society dominated by people making wild and hurtful allegations without any evidence, on the basis that “its their right” or “they’re the only one speaking the truth”, then we open the door to bigotry and ultimately to a feral society. What SS and his acolytes call “the establishment” are actually the people that prevent civilization collapsing into prejudice and a cult of personality. More the enlightenment than the establishment, if truth be told.
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30.Julie.
You seem to be saying that because you were bullied and had to leave your job, you have no sympathy for the civil servants bullied by SS. If that is so you are condoning bullying. If that’s your attitude you don’t really have any cause for complaint about your own situation.
Do you honestly believe that if the person accused by SS did clear his name in court (and assuming he could afford to take legal action!) that would be the end of it for him??? Mud sticks, there would always be someone thinking he was guilty or that the establishment was trying to cover things up.
SS really does come across as an extremely odious and unpleasant person. Best he stays in London, he can easily melt away without being notice there!!
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Ome of Stuart Syvret’s supporters posted this on the senator’s web site:
“Chief Minister? Terry Le Sueur wants the Privileges and Procedures to review The Chapman report, “as a matter of utmost gravity”.
“There is no doubt about it they are out to remove your local political prominence as soon as they possibly can”.
There is no longer any need to remove Syvret’s “political prominence”.
By his actions and words, he has done that himself already. Syvret is a spent force.
And boy! does he know it.
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To TB (COMMENT 55)I certainly do not condone bullying and was not complaining about my own situation.Although my life was made very unpleasant at work for months and two other people left because of the nasty atmosphere which was created in the office I took the decision to leave and actually felt pity for the person concerned as she is a deeply unhappy and troubled person (the opinion of the management also hence their failure to act!)
I agree with you that taking action is a costly business but I repeat that if anyone made a vile and untrue allegation about me I would move heaven and earth to disprove him.Along with the majority of people I have no way of knowing what the truth actually is about all these allegations but would rather have it all unfold in a court of law so that the guilty can be brought to justice or Stuart Syvret can be proved wrong.I know of countless people who constantly call Stuart Syvret names and yet know little of what he is actually doing or saying!I would like the truth,whatever it is,rather than the complicated jigsaw puzzle that this has all become.
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A coward who is now a disgrace to the Island. Good riddance to him thats all I can say.
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I know of a retired cop who had an excellent record of service in investigating child abuse and domestic violence.
His reputation was sullied in Syvret’s thoughtless blog, yet there was no evidence to back up the allegations made. It did cross his mind to take action against these cowardly comments, but he felt it would be better to treat the remarks with the contempt they deserve.
The sad thing was Syvret was backed by Lenny Harper, who many current and retired officers, tell me, was one half of the ‘Management from Hell.’
A warrant should be issued for Syvret’s arrest, then he should be brought back to face justice in Jersey, so the Island’s authorites can put an end to this comic opera.
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Michael #52 – Take a look some time. Just to find out if you can see as far as the tip of your nose, or beyond. The words “Syvret” and “facts”, are poles apart. I hope he stays in London but I wonder how long his MP mate will put up with him; hopefully for at least as long as the people of Jersey (the vast majority of us, those with a degree of common sense) have.
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“A warrant should be issued for Syvret’s arrest, then he should be brought back to face justice in Jersey, so the Island’s authorites can put an end to this comic opera”.
This is the most sensible remark I have read so far.
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I’m not accusing Chapman of being an establishment man, nor of being unprofessional, nor of not being an expert in his field.
I was just pointing out that to refer to him as a ‘Judge’ was misleading and tendentious and achieved the intended effect of leading readers of the JEP by the nose.
But in fact, the Chapman report’s recommendations have put the SEB in a most embarrassing position. For example:
“it is the responsibility of the SEB as the employer to refute publicly any such allegation that is made in clear, unequivocal and firm but moderate language that the allegation is baseless. On each occasion the statement should be backed up wherever possible with the evidence refuting the allegation.”
Since there have been several reports confirming what Syvret and Bellwood have claimed about abuses in the Jersey childcare system, it is going to be difficult to refute those allegations.
When it comes to individuals accused of child sexual and physical abuse, only a court case would reveal all the evidence, assuming the victims are prepared to give evidence publicly and the trial is a fair one.
Since the Chief Minister has said he is going to fully implement Chapman’s recommendations, this looks like a win-win situation for Senator Syvret. Meanwhile his blog attracts an increasing number of readers and the machinations of the Jersey government are publicised world-wide. Probably not what was intended.
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why on earth should the burden of proof rest on those acused by Senator Syvret?
Surely if he makes accusations he should be the one being asked to substantiate them.
He appears to have outed some people based on false statements made by alleged victims of abuse which were subsequently found to have no factual basis.
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The Chapman report proposes a public and evidence based rebuttal, by the States Employment Board, of the allegations of malpractice made by Senator Syvret.
Mr Chapman critises the SEB for failing in their obligation to address these matters.
The SEB must act in an open and transparent way if public confidence is to be restored.
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This has been so badly handled from day one,it may have been better to let him witter on ignored and gone into fizzle out mode,but no the ante has been upped again and again…What is further worrying here is the amount of resources that have been spent trying to bring the man down.your money,my money…
Bearing in mind it has now been revealed that the cops, who have no boss as such,we need a commission urgentlty now,can swqan into anyones home without a by your leave and seize and copy any data, are you really comfortable with that..?Baying for someones downfall can easily deflect from the loss of personal freedom issues contained within this situation…inordinate power in the wrong hands will always draw dissention and civil disobedience,which is socially healthy.This island has many lessons to learn from this episode,and our recent history says we don’t learn quickly or well.
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Judging by his latest rants, Mister Syvret appears to have entered a ‘Götterdämmerung’ phase.
Just after midnight he wrote on his blog:
“Even if there were an election tomorrow – and the oligarchy were finally turfed out of power – frankly – it’s almost certainly all too late now. The damage is done”.
This was followed by:
“But – for my decent constituents – I’m making this one, last effort for the community. I, at least, will be able to say I tried my honest best.
“After that? To use a phrase the decadent oligarchs of fin de siecle Jersey would understand: Après moi la deluge”.
Is this an indication that an end to the Syvret problem is in sight?
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Is this not another case of state-sponsored harassment towards Syvret? It does not attempt to place blog quotes in context or assess their credibility.
Syvret still has my support for his posiiton seems clear, attacking incompetence and wilful dereliction of duty in the face of mass obstructionism through policy and the compliant media. Not a bully, just doing his job in a loud and forceful way.
Funny to see Syvret picked out agin for misdemeaners… cf the data protection breach with Le Main’s punishment for namin a tenant!
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Reg, # 36, Are you,or anyone else who makes such comments willing to bankroll the cost of Syvret’s victims taking civil action against him? In any event do you honestly believe that that would stop the ravings of someone as deluded as he is?
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#67 Chris – “Not a bully, just doing his job in a loud and forceful way.” Would you say the same thing if you had been named on his blog as a child abuser?
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Chris # 67. Surely if Stuart Syvret had any tangible evidence, instead of rumour and anecdotal evidence, he would have revealed his hand by now.
Why hasn’t he reveal the evidence he claims to exist, to the U.K. authorities, or if they won’t listen, to the European Court of Human Rights? Amnesty International? Liberty?
Why hasn’t he approached somebody who would be prepared to help, if there was anything significant in what he claims?
This isn’t States sponsored harassment; this is the conclusion the majority of people have arrived at. Stuart Syvret’s inabilty to produce credible speaks volumes.
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‘Whatever’ (Correspondent 69)
If I had been accused of such revolting crimes, I would not hesitate to seek legal redress, regardless of the accuser’s financial wherewithal. If I could not afford an advocate
then I would represent myself.
It is indeed a mystery why Senator Syvret has not so far been sued. The only possible explanation I can think of is that (for the time being at least) he holds an island wide mandate and that his victims are restrained by an excessive – and I would suggest misguided – respect for our island’s democratic institutions.
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Mr Chapman’s remit was for an investigation into the effects of the alleged bullying and for recommendations on how it should be addressed. So the point of the exercise was to recommend action. His remit was not to investigate if the allegations were true. (Incidentally, he was not acting in the capacity as a judge, so the headline is misleading.)
The onus therefore is on the SEB to act accordingly, as the silence gives the public the impression that the allegations may be true. If they are, then perhaps action of a different kind is required.
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Chris (#67) complained:
“Is this not another case of state-sponsored harassment towards Syvret? It does not attempt to place blog quotes in context or assess their credibility”.
As most of the quotes on this Syvret-based thread come from the Syvret-sponsored blog, I would have thought that their credibility or otherwise was beyond doubt.
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Chris says, apparantly without irony, “Is this not another case of state-sponsored harassment towards Syvret”.
Here are some facts:
1) Syvret is paid by the States: he is, therefore, state sponsored;
2) On his blog he frequently describes private individuals (who, as a term or their employment, are unable to defend themselves) as anything from lazy and incompetent to child rapists. That is clearly harassment.
So Syvret is plainly state-sponsored and harassing others. And yet, in Syvret-world, he is the victim of state-sponsored harassment.
Couldn’t make it up!
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I found the ‘Götterdämmerung’ simile (see no. 66) very apt.
Are we about to see Stuart transmogrified into Siegfried?
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Senator Syvret justifies his actions by quoting examples such as the one relaing to a man he calls Paul’- not his real name:
‘What of my acquaintance “Paul” – who was so terrified of speaking about the abuse he suffered – having never told anyone else – he had to arrange a late night assignation to meet me in a back-ally – in the pouring rain – around 2.00 am one Monday morning – where – after bluntly explaining to me how he had – as a pre-teenage boy – been sodomised during a three year period by States employees – then spent 10 minutes crying on my shoulder?’
I do not believe that the Senator is making up these examples. Do you?
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reading the anti syvret comments makes me think of something recently that was recently in the uk news; where a dinner lady told the parents that their daughter had been attacked at school by some boys with a skipping rope which had left marks on her. the school had sent the parents a letter saying that their child had a slight acident,and tried to smooth it over . the dinner lady was sacked for telling the truth !
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“I do not believe that the Senator is making up these examples. Do you?”
Any assertion made by a public figure that is not backed up by solid proof, or a point of reference, is – by definition – very doubtful.
So, answering Phil’s question in #76 (above) the answer must be yes.
Syvret has made a habit of utterances that cannot be investigated
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No. 58 Why are calling Mr Syvret ‘a coward’, he is standing by his convictions whether you like it or not.
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“A coward is one who “turns tail.” The word comes from Old French couart, coart, “coward,” and is related to Italian codardo, “coward.”
Couart is formed from coe, a northern French dialectal variant of cue, “tail” (from Latin cōda), to which the derogatory suffix -ard was added. This suffix appears in bastard, laggard, and sluggard, to name a few.
A coward may also be one with his tail between his legs. In heraldry a lion couard, “cowardly lion,” was depicted with his tail between his legs. So a coward may be one with his tail hidden between his legs or one who turns tail and runs like a rabbit, with his tail showing.
Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coward
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Toastedteacakes # 79. If Stuart Syvret had courage, he would have stayed in Jersey and faced the Magistrates’ Court.
If he isn’t happy with the Island’s Criminal Justice System he should seek advice from the European Court of Human Rights, Liberty, or Amnesty International. These organisations have a reputation of defending people who are wrongly accused.
If he has credible evidence and proves that his intentions are honorable I’ll be the first to apologise and acknowledge I was wrong.
I don’t that’s going to happen; unless Mr. Syvret has tangible evidence and can prove to one of the aforementioned organisations, that he has a case for the island’s authorities to answer, he will cotinue to attract the sort of flak he is receiving on this site.
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“Why are calling Mr Syvret ‘a coward’, he is standing by his convictions whether you like it or not”
Agreed. Mind you, his conviction is that only he knows the truth and everybody else is an idiot.
And I don’t call running away from court and posting malicious slurs on a website “standing by his convictions”.
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Of course he is a coward, where is he now? Maybe they should stick him in a room with all his blog victims so he can discuss the issues with them face to face?
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He’s a proud Jerseyman, local through and through. Created in the image of the island, for the island. Think once! think local!
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Joe (comment 83) I think Stuart Syvret would love to be put in a room with his blog “victims” and hopefully it could be televised and we can all make up our own minds.
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jees do you guys alway hunt in packs?
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All of Stuart Syvret’s UK supporters (two, so far) are planning a meeting in the British Library on 12 December 2009.
I wonder if the Great Man will have the courage to break cover and attend?
Or will the strain and effort of haranguing one woman and a dog be too much for him?
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It would be good to keep a bit of perspective here,if poss.Had he gone to court and been found guilty….a minor issue like no current driving licence,,and so far no one has been heavily penalised by the data laws….do you really think anyone would decamp…over what would in reality be a moderate fine…….makes me wonder what else could be at the back of it….?
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Oh well, we as the electorate voted him in, so I suppose we deserve him.
Perhaps it is better not to vote?
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Julie 85. Little do you know. He has been asked to attend meetings with certain people but has declined. We all know why now.
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Quentin Symthe #84 surely you mean – Be like Syvret and his follower(s), don’t bother to think logically at all.
And Bella #86 – it’s not a question of hunting in packs, it’s simply that, thank Heaven, there are lots of true Jerseymen and women who have the sense to judge this senator for what he is – a jumped-up, self-serving whining fool.
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truthseeker having no current driving licence is only a minor offence until you have an accident and your insurance does not cover either the car or the person you hit
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93 but he didn’t. why try to introduce irrelevancies..No wonder Curtiss Warren and Stuart are scared to come back for trial with the likes of you around.
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People who have not advised a change of address to the Parish Hall with respect to their driving licence turn up in every large road check.
It is not treated as a serious offence.
With Jersey’s shifting population, hundreds of otherwise law abiding islanders must be breaking this law at any one time.
This petty dispute is dragging the island’s legal system in to disrepute.
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41 Bella
45 Adrian
You must be the two most naive people in the whole world.
If you put as much effort into business as you put into whinging and looking out of your one eye you would both be richer than Bill Gates.
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Pip Clement # 95. Is he charged with not having a driving licence, or failing to notify the authorities of a change of address?
If it was the latter offence this would usualy be dealt with at a Parish Hall enquiry, unless Mr. Syvret got in a strop and elected to go to Court. I feel that he is often the architecht of his own downfall.
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Well said Pip, I know quite a few who are doing this at the moment for perfectly good reasons. Your licence has to be registered at your ‘permanent address’ but if you ask the Parish (I did when I first got a Jersey driving licence) they can’t define this! If you rent and you move a lot, or if you sell your house and live with parents while waiting to move into your new house it can all get quite silly. I know lots of people in the UK whose licences are still registered at their parents’ address, the parents are still there so they’re not going to be difficult to track down.
As for insurance, my insurance company have never required my licence address to be the same as my home address as long as the address used for insurance purposes is my home address, and yes, I have claimed and they didn’t even try and use the ‘your licence is registered to a different address’ excuse!
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#peter(96)
I can,t vouch for adrian,but maybe we are the 2 most honest ones on here who have only the one user name instead of multiple user names?
follow the sheep is not my style,nor ever will be
Naive i am not,i could teach you a thing or too.
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Where is Syvrest now and how is affording to live?
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Sir
‘Voice’ (correspondent 93) raises a very important point.
Yet Senator Syvret’s alleged malfeasance was only discovered through a search for which the police did not produce a warrant.
Perhaps if we are serious about rooting out crime on the island such searches should become the norm, and we should welcome officers into our homes to peer into every nook and cranny of our personal lives.
After all, if one has nothing to hide surely one has nothing to fear?
Proud Jerseyman
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This is paramount to gross misconduct and once and for all someone please get rid of him and stop paying him 40k of tax payers money. He is a total embarrassment to us all.
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Tony Gallichan (correspondent 44).
As a matter of fact I do on occasion draw inspiration from ‘Pomp and Circumstance’, as well as Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony and of course any of Wagner’s works. (Indeed, I am listening to ‘Ride of the Valkyrie’ as I type these words).
Proud Jerseyman
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Bella #96 – so there we have it. There are now three honest people, two of whom have a “permanent address” in Jersey – Bella and Adrian; and, of course, the good senator who’s not too sure where his permanent address is, apparently.
Good one, Bella. Nice to see you do have a sense of humour, after all. Pity that your mate, Stuart, hasn’t.
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Stuart Syvret has a talent for escalating any dispute in to a major crisis but I suppose this and a zest for self publicity is part and parcel of the politician’s make up.
But he has also been very lucky in his choice of enemies who have often played in to his hands by underestimating his intelligence, acting in a stupid or discourteous way themselves or attempting to minimise the failings that he has bought to light.
Stuart Syvret was wrong a lot of the time but he was the major factor in exposing the child abuse that once occured in the island.
That is more than a lot of States members have ever achieved.
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No, I’m one of the honest ones. I only have the one name and only post under that name – unless someone hijacks it as happened recently on said ctv website.
Proud Jerseyman, now I KNOW your not for real… from now on Ill read everything you type with tongue firmly in cheek – yoour going to do more for Syvret then most…
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Ok, lets look at a few things here. Firstly 99% of the people Syvret has named and shamed on his blog are not poor. They have the money to take him to court. They choose not to. Why? I’ll come to that in a moment.
The SEB has been heavily critiscised by Chapman (who is NOT a judge, depsite what folks would have you think) for not looking after their employee’s interests. Why? I’ll come to that in a moment.
Syvret has posted evidence on his blog to support his claims – yet, oddly, the mainstream media don’t wish to address that, or share that evidence. Have a look at the Sharp report – theres a link on his blog. It does appear that Syvret IS trying to deliveratly provoke a liable case against him. Why?
The answer to all three is the same one. If this goes to court, Syvret will then be in a position to prove his case – and there are a LOT of witnesses who will come forward and take the stand. And when that happens all the alegations of child abuse will be public. All the cover ups tht have happened will be public knowledge. And it is for THOSE reasons that no court case has been forthcoming. The Establishment would not survive it. And they are terrified of it. The Chapman report is the latest in a long line of attempts to discredit Syvret and make him a completly inafectual force in Jersey. Another attempt at this is the current court case in which, once the Establishment realised he was on to a winner, they completly disallowed his defence. So Syvret goes to London as it seems that the only way that change will occur in Jersey – change for good, not just for the elite, but for all – is through the Westminster government. And thats a tricky battle, one that will take time. Syvret IS earning his keep. The local media and spin doctors don’t want you to know that. Much better to do their best to discredit him.
Yes, he can be remov ed from the States after six months. But then, he was going to stand down at the next election anyway… I get the feeling he knows exactly what he’s doing…
And as for Perchard moaning about bullying! Well.. pots and kettles, methinks..
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Blueknight:
“If it was the latter offence this would usualy be dealt with at a Parish Hall enquiry, unless Mr. Syvret got in a strop and elected to go to Court”
What a very mature way of looking at a prospective defendant’s right to test a case in a court of law
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Pip, mon vie, #105 – I think that it would be very difficult for anyone to underestimate Senator Syvret’s intelligence. After all, empty vessels make most noise.
And M’sieur Gallichan #107 – my sympathies lie with the poor 1%; actually with all 100% of the people maligned by this malicious bully. I wish that I had your superior knowledge and could so easily judge the value of my fellow Jerseymen. But their value, Mr Gallichan, is not to be estimated in monetry terms. I know one person who the majority of people in this Island value not one bit. And that is why he says he will not stand for re-election. But, as always, is he to be believed?
And, as for no one suing him, good Heavens, Mr Gallichan has now revealed to us all that the “Jersey Establishment” has absolute control over the minds and souls of all those wronged by our very own self-proclaimed saviour. Is there no end to the powers of the “Establishment”? I prefer to think that, moreso, most people can very well see for themselves where the truth lies, and it’s certainly not with our exiled fool.
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The mainstream media have bent over backwards to afford Syvret a voice, as have mainstream taxpayers.£22 million expended so far and he’s now got a headache.No wonder.
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Tony Gallichan,methinks there would be some very red faces,I have read the Sharp report and would urge all on this forum to read it before being so sure fired righteous about things, bar room lawyers and armchair experts who cast uninformed opinions hither and yon are so prevalent here it’s a shame…just spilling their own bile……cheap talk.
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Federal # 108 “What a very mature way of looking at a prospective defendant’s right to test a case in a court of law.” You won’t find me disagreeing with you on that point.
That said I can’t imagine the Police Criminal Justice Unit, prosecuting Centenier or Crown Officers, would recommend the prosecution of such a high profile figure, unless they had crossed all the ‘T’s and dotted the ‘i’s.
The same goes for the alleged Data Protection offences, I don’t think the Island’s Data Protection Comissioner would pursue the case unless the evidence was as rock solid as possible. It will be interesting however to see if the evidence obtained in the police search, is deemed by the Court to be inadmissible.
As for Tony Gallichan’s assertions that 99% of the people Syvret has named and shamed, can afford to pursue legal action against him.
It is Syvret who is making the allegations and I am sure Mr. Gallichan is aware of the term, ‘onus probandi’. They don’t have to prove their innocence in the same way Syvret doesn’t have to prove his innocence in the impending cases against him. The prosecution must prove their case against him beyond all reasonable doubt and he should do the same.
Syvret will no doubt assert that there is a
conspiracy against him. Yet those people who have been maligned in his blog, may make similar claims.
Syvret will probably claim the witnesses who give evidence against him aren’t telling the truth. Similalrly, those people who have been maligned in his blog, will be entitled to make similar assertions about those witnesses, supporting his assertions of wrong doing by the island’s authorities.
As they say, “Watch this space.”
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Blue Knight:
“What a very mature way of looking at a prospective defendant’s right to test a case in a court of law.” “You won’t find me disagreeing with you on that point”.
Excellent. Let’s hear no more of your erstwhile view that those who elect to take a matter to court are having a “strop”! Thank you.
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#91 Paul Letherbarrow “…and a coward when told to provide the evidence.”
It would assist if you would actually read the Chapman report properly, which is in fact recommending the SEB – not Senator Syvret – to put up the evidence.
On the subject of evidence and reading, it is a fact that the majority (but not all) of the evidence demanded of Syvret, which existence is regularly denied by the establishment, is freely available and is not ‘Syvret’s evidence’.
It is contained in the independent Sharp, Howard League and Dylan Southern reports. For the hard of thinking, ‘independent’ means that Syvret did not write them.
It is the contents of these reports, and the lack of action on them, which appears to have kick-started Syvret’s mission. I would urge everyone to read these independant reports – unless of course it is inconvenient because they don’t sit well with the Syvret bashing posture. They make for uncomfortable reading.
I have read all the aforementioned reports and can only conclude that while Senator Syvret may have gone about things in a way most of us would not have done, he certainly has a valid point.
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Bella and Tony can you just confirm a couple of points for me.
1. you believe a person is guilty until they prove their innocence?
2. you believe that ‘justice’ should be based upon ability to pay?
3. you believe that leadership is based upon bullying and harrassment?
4. you believe that syvret would stop if a court in Jersey found against him in a civil action?
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Tony Gallichan: you could not be more wrong if you tried.
“Ok, lets look at a few things here. Firstly 99% of the people Syvret has named and shamed on his blog are not poor. They have the money to take him to court. They choose not to. Why? I’ll come to that in a moment.”
How about this: Syvret has shown himself to be a master of the legal system. He will take and appeal every minor point. As a lawyer I can tell you it would cost anyone at least £200,000 in legal fees to get any sort of settlement, none will be repaid by Syvret and even then, people like you would still say “no smoke without fire” or “that shows the legal system is biased anyway, just like I always said”, and this only proves that Syvret is telling the truth.
Here’s a different way of looking at it. Any person who was abused can take the States and the alleged invidiual abusers to court. If they can show on the balance of probabilities – in other words, that their version of events is more likely to be true than not – they will win a substantial settlement and will have justice.
Syvret seems to always manage to get legal defence even though he pleads poverty. Why does the same legal support not get offered to the victims? Why doesn’t Syvret say “I’ll stop wasting time and money fighting this stupid driving licence claim and instead let one of you victims have your day in court?”. perhaps it is Syvret who is afraid of putting his cards on the table.
So if you are going to say that the lack of a court action is meaningful, you have to say that I shows there is no evidence of abuse at HDLG.
But no, there are different standards depending if you agree with someone or not. I believe that is the definition of hypocrisy.
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Blue knight,you have highlighted your own problem and those of many other establishment followers,You say you can’t Imagine a prosecution being pushed forward on such a high profile person unless they had it right or that the data unit would not push for action,yet high profile figures have been let out the side door for wrongdoings here many times.also The now infamous Terry Le main data issue,they did not push him,wonder why..?can you still not imagine it..?is it because you don’t want to,for it is indeed very uncomfortable to believe that the powers that be are not entirely straight or trustworthy and have human failings,I understand that causes discomfort,but to blind yourself to what is around you is dangerous,were it not for the recent Telegraph revelations on stealing,£millions in fiddles would have gone on in secrecy,any self deluded comfort zone is going to mislead and cause side taking…it may be worth remembering that todays renegade can become tomorows folk hero.as unbearable as you may find that…Che Guevara,Nelson Mandela….how many examples would you need,the outlaw is usually only the one out of favour with those holding power,and usually because he has differing opinions of justice to them,sadly those holding power are not automatically whiter than white.
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Mad foetus # 116 – ‘Syvret seems to always manage to get legal defence even though he pleads poverty.’
I understood that he had been refused legal aid and was representing himself save for some initial pro bono advice from Advocate Sinel.
Is that not the position?
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Wow @ Tony.
“Syvret has posted evidence on his blog to support his claims” – really? Like what? As far as I was aware, he has never produced any evidence to support his assertions. No documentary evidence, no statements from the alleged victims, no anything.
Mad Foetus raises a very good point. Your argument that the inaction of the accused indicates their guilt, must also apply to the alleged victim’s inaction. If Syvret has the evidence he claims too, why have the ‘victims’ not brought civil actions on that basis?
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Penny Herslap.
Have a look at the qulaified lawyer Mad Foetus’ comments “Why doesn’t Syvret say ‘I’ll stop wasting time and money fighting this stupid driving licence claim and instead let one of you victims have your day in court?’. Perhaps it is Syvret who is afraid of putting his cards on the table.”
Sorry, but Stuart Syvret can sometimes be like a petulant child and he can and does get in a ‘strop’. Just look at the way he spoke to the Assistant Magistrate.
To reiterate he is the architect of his own downfall and he has nobody to blame but himself for attracting so much flak.
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I nearly laughed out loud at truthseeker’s comparison of Stuart Syvret to the likes of Che Guevara and Nelson Mandela(comment no.17).
I mean really, please tell me that was MEANT to be a joke?
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Jeezlouise #119
You forcefully assert ‘As far as I was aware, he has never produced any evidence to support his assertions. No documentary evidence, no statements from the alleged victims, no anything.’
I am happy to make you aware. He has. It is contained in the independent Sharp, Howard League and Dylan Southern reports – as explained many times on his blog (and referred to by some posters here). They are independent so Syvret cannot be accused of making up, inventing or concocting them for political gain or publicity.
The reports are damning of child protection systems in Jersey and highlight the questionable acts of some civil servants and public figures. This information is in the public domain should you seek it.
I prefer to ask why so little action has taken place as a result of these reports? That is the background to the alleged ‘bullying’.
I rather suspect that it may not suit your particular cause to bother to read these reports. Far easier to close your eyes and assert the mantra over again that ‘there is no evidence’ as per the establishment line.
Anyway to reiterate what has been pointed out to (and largely ignored by) establishment supporters/Syvret bashers/spin dcotors, Chapman suggests, nay recommends, that SEB provide the denials on behalf of the embittered employees and to provide evidence to support their denials where possible.
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Blue Knight #120
Yes the qualified lawyer who hadn’t spotted the fact that the Senator is unrepresented in court.
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Does anyone know, now that Senator Syvret has been registered with an excused absence due to illness rather than being marked down as absent with out excuse does the six month period before his suspension continue to tick down or does it start over again.
The States are starting to make themselves look very silly in failing to tackle this problem. He needs to be dealt with now.
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The joke as far as I am concerned is that one person can allegedly bully so many others.
In my opinion reading this story will make those feeble minded enough think that the (high powered) employees of the states were in such a state that they were rendered ineffective by constant harrassment and are having to go off sick or take early retirement.
As per people flapping about £43,000 may I suggest you start worrying about the millions that are being wasted first? Go and see the people responsible and have a go at them about it. Or even better still don’t vote them back in at the next election. As far as I am concerned we will see how many stupid voters we have at the next elections by who gets back in.
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Blue Knight:
“What a very mature way of looking at a prospective defendant’s right to test a case in a court of law.” “You won’t find me disagreeing with you on that point”.
Brilliant!. Let’s hear no more of your former view that those who elect to take a matter to court are having a “strop”!
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Anna G *121. Yes, it must have been a joke, I think. I do agree with your view though that Senator Syvret is comparable to some of the great political heroes of our time.
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“I understood that he had been refused legal aid and was representing himself save for some initial pro bono advice from Advocate Sinel”
Funnily enough, if I was minded to do some pro bono work I think I’d be more inclined to help the large number of people who have strong cases against the States for child abuse. After all, even a money grabbing lawyer can see that if you represent someone and win you’ll be able to write a bestselling memoir afterwards: “Doing it for the kids: one lawyer’s struggle for justice against the establishment”.
Hmm, seems all that’s missing is a claimant with evidence.
This is not to say criminal activity didn’t happen at HDLG. I’m sure it did. It’s just very difficult to prove what happened and who did it with any certainty. There’s no cover-up, no conspiracy, no establishment. It’s just hard to prove anything.
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Blue Knight: Have a look at the qulaified lawyer Mad Foetus’ comments “Why doesn’t Syvret say ‘I’ll stop wasting time and money fighting this stupid driving licence claim and instead let one of you victims have your day in court?’. Perhaps it is Syvret who is afraid of putting his cards on the table.”
Let’s have a look. Wow, it must be true because he is a (wait for it) “qulaified lawyer”. I know a man in the pub who has a sister’s brother’s friend who used to watch crown court in the 1970s. I always believe what he tells me because it must be true.
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Potato Alan # 129. I accept ‘Mad Foetus’ may not be a lawyer, the same as you may have no link with potatos.
Of course there is a possibility Mad Foetus is gilding the lilly, but thats neither here nor there. The point is Stuart Syvret could have sorted out the allegations against him and then been in a position to defend those who alleged wrong doing at the hands of the Island’s authorities.
As for legal advice; well surely Mr. Syvret knows whether or not he had a driving licence, or whether he failed to notify the authorites of his change of address. He can plead guilty or not guilty and he is eloquent enough to argue his case in Court. Advocacy is surely one of his strong points, all he needs to do is be truthful.
As for your comment, ” I always believe what he tells me because it must be true.” The same could be said about Mr. Syvret in his assertions about the Island’s authorities. ‘Stuart said it, so it must be correct’….Where is the evidence?
Penny Herslappo # 126 (or Herslap as you were in a previous entry) Haven’t you heard of the right to express oneself, freedom of speech etc. Mr. Syvret’s outburst in court, was him getting in a ‘strop’. Why didn’t he exercise his right to have his case tested in a court of law? Surely he is just being paranoid, if he believes everone in authority is against him.
As I have said before, why doesn’t he approach the European Court of Human Rights or Liberty to help him fight his cause? If he wants to avoid the flak, he needs to produce credible witnesses and admissible evidence to corroborate their testimonies concerning all the wrongs, he claims occurred.
Who knows there may be some truth in what he says about the hitorical acts of child abuse, but without the evidence he is not going to get anywhere. That’s the long and the short of it. Like it or not, those are the rules under which the Courts operate. The allegations made by the victims in the H. de la G. case, have to prove their case beyond all doubt.
I assure you, that if there was sufficient evidence, I’d be the first who would want to see justice being done. Sometimes however, you just have to realise when there is no hope of justice being done, because ADMISSIBLE evidence is not present, irksome as that may be.
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Some of the worst disasters in the island’s recent history have been bought to us by qualified lawyers.
Look at the Le Pas affair, this started in the early days of the Waterfront as a simple dispute over the ownership of the foreshore that was being reclaimed.
The island could have settled it for a few hundred thousand, maybe a million.
But we did not.
The States argued amongst themselves, civil servants and our legal advisers said we had a good case and we would go to court.
After years of very expensive bickering, the States decided that we could not risk going to court.
The settlement involved giving a huge chunk of the Waterfront to the plaintiffs plus legal bills that have never been totally disclosed or quantified.
Total cost to the island, at a guesstimate maybe £10-15M.
An appalling disaster for which no one has ever been held responsible!
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I allow myself a wry smile over the comments bashing Str Syvret on a local forum, considering how quick they were to jump on the “Stuart is a bully” bandwagon. Double standards abound amongst those who seem to take a strange delight in expressing their distaste for him with cruel vigour.
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Mad foetus #128
Who Advocate Sinel chooses to give free advice to is a matter for him. Nonetheless, you cannot assume that, because he chose to do this for the Senator, he does not do it for other people too.
You also miss the point regarding the allegations of cover-ups etc. Those, and the allegations behind the bullying issue, has its roots in the independent reports cited above. It is not directly or exclusively linked to HdlG.
If you haven’t read them yet I suggest you do.
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#122. Syvret has named civil servants as guilty of lying, wilful concealment, peadophilia and abuse. Having read them, none of the reports you mention support these accusations. I accept that they highlight failings in child protection, but that is not the same as evidence of the relevant civil servants’ concealment, lies or abuses.
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132 This Planet:
“I allow myself a wry smile over the comments bashing Str Syvret on a local forum, considering how quick they were to jump on the “Stuart is a bully” bandwagon. Double standards abound amongst those who seem to take a strange delight in expressing their distaste for him with cruel vigour”.
That what is known as “democracy” and “free speech”. Similarly, people who have been criticised (Syvret and Edward Trevor are but two examples in the last week) have the right to respond.
It is strange, but neither has bothered to exercise that privilege.
I wonder why.
If a dissident comment is sent to the Syvret ‘blog it is either rejected outright or, if it does see the light of day, is subjected to a stream of invective and insult.
Meanwhile, Edward Trevor just carries on as before.
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Blue Knight #130
“The same could be said about Mr. Syvret in his assertions about the Island’s authorities. ….Where is the evidence?”
also
“…he needs to produce credible witnesses and admissible evidence to corroborate their testimonies concerning all the wrongs, he claims occurred.”
I repeat. Much of the evidence exposing the backdrop to all this palava can be found in the SHARP, HOWARD LEAGUE and DYLAN SOUTHERN reports. (sighs…)
The ‘where is the evidence’ mantra is wearing thin when you have been directed to it at least 5 times on this thread. There are none so blind as those who find it inconvenient to see.
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DaDooRonRon…..Cover ups in politics have been occurring since time immemorial. Many people are giving their views on the situation without being in possession of the full facts -myself included and we all face the potential of being totally wrong.
The point is Stuart Syvret has been pointing his finger at individuals who may be completely innocent. His haranguing of some of these people was, in my view, was tantamount to bullying.
People who are involved in child care or in investigating alleged child abuse, can only pursue a prosecution where there is sufficient evidence to be assured of a fair chance of success.
As you are aware it is the Crown Officers, who determine whether or not a case should proceed and then they have to get a Centenier to charge the alleged wrong doer.
At each stage the evidence is reviewed to see if there are reasonable prospects of a conviction and whether it is in the public interest to purse a case…..that includes the case against Mr. Syvret.
I used to support Mr. Syvret, but he seems to have gone off the rails. If he doesn’t like many of the comments on this site, then that’s his fault for poking his head above the parapet. He can’t criticise people and not expect to receive criticism himself.
P.S. Where can people get a copy of the independent reports re: H de la G, so we can be as informed as you?
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Dadooronron #122 and others
Could you please identify by page and paragraph number whereabouts in the reports you mention they provide evidence that the individuals named on Syvret’s blog as child abusers, rapists, murdurers and so on are in fact guilty of those crimes?
What’s that? Oh, thought not.
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Looking at Mr Syvret’s Blog he states that he is working on various projects and sometimes gets bored, i would be interested to know what those projects are as he is still paid a wage his employee would also be entitled to know what those are and are they relevent to his paid job,or is it called moonlighting
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“As you are aware it is the Crown Officers, who determine whether or not a case should proceed and then they have to get a Centenier to charge the alleged wrong doer”.
That rarely presents any problems.
The Centeniers – and the rest of the “Honorary” Police – are archaic anachronisms that have no place in a modern society like ours.
Which other jurisdictions of our size has not one, but TWELVE parallel playtime police forces?
That is, of course, in addition to the (salaried) and professionally trained States of Jersey Police.
No wonder Jersey is the laughing stock of the world.
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Blue Knight – I assume from your name that you might be a police officer. Your sarcasm is unfortunately misplaced.
I don’t claim to be informed, I simply pointed out to the “where is the evidence of cover ups or lazy, incomptent criminal shysters in our civil service” posters where they might find it because this thread was about bullying – not HdlG.
I am not aware of any independent report on HdlG and I have mentioned previously, if you had bothered to read my posts (particularly #133)that the allegations behind the bullying issue has its roots in the independent reports and is not directly or exclusively linked to HdlG.
Peter #138
Don’t be lazy, read them yourself. The reports cannot say who is guilty of a crime or who isn’t. That is a court’s function.
You appear to have deliberately misinterpreted my previous posts, perhaps deliberately, in suggesting that I was implying that these reports claimed that certain people had committed the crimes your mention. I wasn’t. I was attempting to point people in the direction of the reports in order for them to understand the genesis of this whole sad affair. I make no judgment either way.
I think that it is healthier to know how things have developed from the beginning, rather than to pick the book up halfway through and then rely on gossip, disorted truths, spin, misinformation or prejudice to tell me what happened in the first half of the book.
The reports, as I previously mentioned are damning in respect of child protection in Jersey over the years. Some people have been named in some reports, in others; only the relevant departments.
My point is, and always has been, if the reports are correct why has nobody (civil servant)ever, to my knowledge, been held accountable. It is, so I understand, precisely this lack of action and accountability for the reported failures that have started the ball rolling.
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States members are not employed as such and nor are they paid a wage or salary.
They are paid an allowance and are responsible for their own social security.
It is up to the member how much time they spend representing their constituents and what other work they do.
Plenty of members have outside interests, quite a few run a business as well as sitting in the States, are they moonlighting as well?
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DaDooRonRon # 141. I regret that there are some people who write so much diatribe on this site (Probably I am just as guilty) that I haven’t had the time road read each and every entry. Clearly I’ve missed some of the points you say you made.
Yes the original thread was about bullying wasn’t it? Vide “In his blog, the Senator has accused a number of States staff – some by name – of dishonesty, paedophilia, criminal acts, incompetence and cover-ups. The allegations mainly relate to staff who used to work for Senator Syvret when he was in charge of the Health Department.”
You said, ” The reports, as I previously mentioned are damning in respect of child protection in Jersey over the years. Some people have been named in some reports….”
You went on to say that nobody has been held to account. Yes, if there was rock solid evidence that an individual or individuals was / were responsible for all the the wrong doing, I would agree that he / she / they should be held to account.
However unless there is ample evidence – yes I know that upsets some people, but it is a vital element if there is to be true justice – Mr. Syvret’s cause, even if it was well intentioned, is lost. He just needs to recognise that fact.
By denigrating people’s professional integrity, solely based on what seems to be anecdotal information, is in my book, ‘prima facie’ evidence of bullying by passive aggression.
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The JEP has done an excellent job by inadvertently providing free advertising to Senator Syvret’s blog in my opinion. Maybe those running the JEP haven’t heard of the phrase viral marketing?
I view these constant headlines, as the equivalent of putting petrol on the bonfire. Once things reach a certain mass they are hard to stop. This has well and truely gone global.
What must people in other countries be thinking about all this? I would also ask the question whom is most likely to be believed on what has happened so far? It may not be as clear cut as some would have us believe.
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Blue Knight #143
I completely agree with you that to bring someone to account in court requires good and admissible evidence.
There are however other ways of brining people to account rather than through the criminal courts. Disciplinary action does not require proof to the criminal standard.
I might go on to give examples where disciplinary action should have taken place but I am aware that the JEP are likely to edit out bits. That is an editorial matter for them but the reason why I have urged people to read the reports and make their own mind up whether some kind of action, disciplinary or otherwise, should have followed.
If one was to conclude that some action should have taken place and didn’t the question has to be asked; why not? Unless there is complete transparency there will always be allegations of cover-ups.
All this is at the root of the Syvret issue so it is essential to start at the beginning in order to understand how it has come to this. As you say “By denigrating people’s professional integrity, solely based on what seems to be anecdotal information, is in my book, ‘prima facie’ evidence of bullying by passive aggression.”
I agree, but would add, the principle works both ways.
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@ Magnolia Man #135
> That what is known as “democracy”
> and “free speech”.
Exactly what Senator Syvret has been using on his blog, and in emails to other States Members. Going around in circles here, aren’t we?
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DaDooRonRonPosted December 3, 2009 at 9:13 am #91 Paul Letherbarrow “…and a coward when told to provide the evidence.”
It would assist if you would actually read the Chapman report properly, which is in fact recommending the SEB – not Senator Syvret – to put up the evidence.
Post #91 by DaDooRon
Paul Letherbarrow “…and a coward when told to provide the evidence.”
Dear DaDooRon
I have been in touch with the JEP today, owner of this web site, because I have NOT posted these comments.
Thanks
The real Paul Letherbarrow. firstplace@localdial.com
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