What a waste!
Tuesday 8th December 2009, 3:00PM GMT.
20,000 tonnes of food is thrown away each year
ISLANDERS are throwing away up to a staggering 20,000 tonnes of food every year, according to the Consumer Council.
The amount equates to 1 lb of food per person every week. The mountain of wasted food comes from hotels, supermarkets and private households.
Senator Alan Breckon, the chairman of the Consumer Council, said that in the run-up to Christmas, some shoppers were ‘trying to carry their own weight in grocery shopping’.
He said that the figures contained in his latest newsletter came from Transport and Technical Services, who carry out the refuse collections. They say that between 17,500 tonnes and 20,000 tonnes of food is thrown away each year.
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And this is more/less than the UK average?
Without context it’s a meaningless statistic, real headline ” islanders are throwing away a lot of food just like the rest of the UK and Europe”
Won’t sell many papers that will it.
What might be more interesting is the cost of the food we’re throwing away compared to the UK, double I’d say, that’s the real story.
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Last sunday at M&S i reached out for a bottle of pure orange juice near closing time,only to be beaten by a staff member gathering up all the remaining bottles in a basket,sorry sir it’s out of date ,well I’ll have it anyway I said,No you can’t, well can I give you half price for it..? NO it’s to be disposed of….So here I am in the shop money ready needing juice ,the juice is present ,and I go away without it and it gets thrown away….The lunatics have indeed taken over the asylum.
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Im a bit fat myself hence i cant throw my weight around on here to much.
However from what i witness everyday it looks like some islanders have consumed 20,000 tons of food each judging by the size of them.
It all boils down to the same thing particulaly in Jersey and thats a thing known as greed.
How much can i force down my neck,and with the festive season approaching one needs to get a grip and perhaps reflect in there heads
Would i normally cram so much food into myself?
Common sense “should” kick in hopefully!
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Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of this article, why do the States not have a recycling system in place to minimise this, it’s so easy to do have done it for years!!!
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So they want us to spend, but not spend too much…
It seems like we are treating food like the States are treating our money.
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Well with supermarkets and actually restaurants they would prefer to throw the food away than give it to staff – which is ridiculous, also if households bought the green bags for veg and fruit they would save a heck of a lot of throwing away – I use them every day and they are marvellous, we never throw food away, if meat if left over we make soup or some other dish and freeze it for another day. People are just too rich I think.
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I love the irony in post (3) by Ms Gaslight.
If you’re going to lecture us about “common sense” then at least make sure to have a dictionary to hand in order to check spelling. I quote:
“to much”
“particulaly”
“in there heads”
…and what happened to all the punctuation??!!
Just watch, next thing she’ll be calling us locals “thick” rather than “particularly greedy” lol!
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Sir
Surely these facts illustrate the wisdom and farsightedness of our Council of Ministers’ decision to levy GST on foodstuffs.
Indeed, one might argue that the current rate of 3.5% is far too low and should be increased at the earliest opportunity in order to eliminate such waste.
Such a policy could thus be presented not only as a fairer distribution of the tax burden, but also as a measure designed to protect the environment.
Proud Jerseyman
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Food is expensive and waste is natural as we buy far too much and not use it. I used to work for a supermarket many years ago and the food thrown out was shocking. In them days staff used to drive around the back late at night and nick it!!!
Who could blame them!! Love to get hold of M & s rubbish bin this day and age when where all skint!
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There is absolutely no proof that such amounts of food are being wasted, but you wait, food will be the next thing that is taxed to raise money, on the basis that it is to reduce waste ! Mark my words !
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@ Mogit #4
“…why do the States not have a recycling system in place to minimise this…”
Recycling is not necessarily the answer; far better to reduce waste rather than pour energy into using that waste for something for the sake of it.
How to educate and encourage people not to buy/cook more than they need to is the question that could/should be addressed. Carrot or stick? do you reward (and how) less waste, or penalise glutony and/or waste?
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A few ideas that may help?…
http://planetgreen.discovery.com/home-garden/ways-avoid-waste-food.html?campaign=TH_rotator
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Truthseeker
Whilst you are no doubt right that this is an outrageous waste, surely you didn’t seriously expect the person who stacks/unstacks the shelves in M&S to negotiate some sort of “half price deal” with you there on the spot?
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In answer to Truthseeker M & S like all food stores have to abide by the rules of Public Health if you had brought the juice and become ill who would you blame yes M & S there are rules on out of date usage for our protection. The same reason applies for why they are unable to give it away. The rules are there for our protection.
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Shame they did not live in Bulgaria they could feed all the once domestic dogs that have been thrown out to fend for themselves. Such a sorry state for an animal lover to see such beautiful dogs left to starve and fend for themselves in one would have thought was not a third world country?? Was there seen it. And Fed them.If I had lots of money I would buy land there and set up a dog Santuary. So anyone reading this if you feel the same put your money where your mouth is.
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13. I was willing to pay full price,my offer of half was in case they felt unable to charge full price as it was past the date.so I could not have it at full price,half price or just take it away,why wouldn’t they take either option rather than throw it away…all I wanted was the bloody juice…or is it simply price protectionism…in which case NOTHING can be done about the waste.if the assistant was not empowered to change the price or adjust in anyway that would seem to bear it out.wouldn’t you say…?
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Senator Breckon, as is so often the case with nearly all Jersey politicians, is playing to the gallery.
I am what my grandmother would have called a “healthy” individual. By today’s standards, this is untrue, as I weighed in this morning at 93 kg!
Not even I have bought – or have even ever thought of buying – my own weight in grocery shopping. I seriously doubt that anybody else has either.
Not at Christmas, nor at any other time of the year.
I hope that Senator Breckon’s spin-doctor comes up with something better for the senator’s next sound bite.
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I really liked Fanny by Gaslight’s ‘nom d’ecran’.
As a child recovering from an operation, I found the book of that name (written by Michael Sadleir, if I remember correctly) in my mother’s bookcase. The subject matter was rather strong for a nine-year-old boy.
If our correspondent reads the book, she might decide on a different pen name!
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#10 Shush don,t put ideas in their heads.
They are already talking about a fat tax in uk.
In other words all items that contain fat content are being looked at because of the overweight population.
This covers just about anything except fruit and veg.
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@ truthseeker #16
“…price protectionism… …if the assistant was not empowered to change the price or adjust in anyway that would seem to bear it out.wouldn’t you say?…”
I think it’s more a case of protecting their corporate image for quality produce. They don’t want to get a name for selling produce past it’s sell by date. The staff may have been read the riot act by head office and are just towing the company line in not selling it to you. Even more important not to be caught ignoring these rules for the Jersey stores, as they may risk their franchise.
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Earlier this evening, I walked past Prêt a Manger (a chain of high-class fast food sandwich emporia in the UK) near East Croydon station.
A van was being loaded with all the time-expired merchandise, which is then distributed, free of charge, to needy people in south London. I was told that this was standard practice at all branches of Prêt a Manger.
I realise that the number of potential recipients in Jersey may not match that in London, but the idea is definitely worth considering.
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I personally decided to disregard sell by dates some time ago and unless it is a meat or dairy product which could have obvious repercussions I go ahead and eat it.I am still alive so far.As already stated here shops are following the rules to the letter which will result in loads of waste but what really annoyed me was when my husband witnessed a case of tinned cat food being thrown out in a supermarket because some cans of Coke were spilt on it.Surely that at least could have been donated to an animal sanctuary?That really upset me!
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Bella 19 – fat tax? What a brilliant idea! If the states levied a tax on all but the essential food types (exempt would include all fresh and frozen fruit and veg, milk, eggs, bread) so that essentially the tax is on the “bad” stuff (fast food, ready meals, snack foods), the benefits would be that hopefully people would be put off slightly from buying the bad stuff therefore helping to reduce the waist problem, and the tax that is raised could be used for dealing with the waste problem and towards the medical costs of the obesity problem (obese beds, handling equipment and specialist staff as well as educating people to eat better).
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Do supermarket buyers actually assess how much they will sell and order based on this? If so then the fact that they are chucking away out of date products denotes that they are getting their forecasts wrong. Tightening up here should reduce waste.
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I know why there is so much food wastage, the supermarkets now are all advertising ‘buy one get one free’, sometimes I don’t want 2 of something but I have to get two. Also, if I just want to get say one pork chop, or a couple of sausages (for example) everything is pre-packed in pieces of 4, 6 or 8 etc. I may want a couple of sauges one night, no-one else in my family likes them so I have to keep half a pack in the fridge, but I might not want them again before the sell-by date, so I have to throw them away and it really, really annoys me. They should bring back butchers counters where you can ask for say, one chop and instead of having buy one get one free, just half the price of it. Simples
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OMG – soon we will only be allowed to buy a limited amount of food at any one time in the supermarket !!
If I want to over eat (not that I do) then that is my right !! We get taxed on enough things already without being told how we can spend what little money we have left, we also get told what we should or shouldn’t do far too much as well – let us have some pleasures left in life !!
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Im glad my nom de plume has raised a smile or two in the keep it local community.
Pardon the illeteracy skills on my part as i attended a Jersey school that was charmed by the prescence of a neo nazi fanatic which in turn distracted my ability to concentrate.
Clip clop horsey is assuming im a Miss,when im actually a fella! However i dont mind one assuming
in this case due to my “slightly” camp name which has arisen due to the fact that i walk around by gaslight and sit down,as i cannot afford electric light as its to dyer yer.
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@J Lamborrari, no 11
It isn’t just about getting people to cook exactly the right amount of food, it should be about educating people how to deal with left overs. I always use leftovers in some way shape or form as part of another dish as I can not stand the thought of throwing out perfectly good food!
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What business is it of the Government or anybody else what I choose to eat or not eat ? I thought my rates covered the disposal of my waste. If that’s not the case, put up my rates to a level where they cover the costs, or let me keep my cash, and I’ll bring all of my waste to the doors of the States so they can have a proper look through it to check whether I am over my ‘quota’ in terms of quality and quantity.
Breckon and others. Please find something useful to do with your time and my money rather than interfering needlessly with parts of peoples lives that don’t concern you.
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One would thing that with all this swine flu going about there would be very little waste because we would all be eating like pigs.
I’ll get my coat…
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For those of us that don’t have children many package sizes are simply too big, I’m sure this situation is even worse for single people.
I understand the environmental and cost needs to reduce packaging and why this makes larger package sizes preferable but this just means that couples and single people are paying through the nose for food that they don’t even get to eat. Freezers are great but Jersey flats are not big enough for decent sized freezers!
I would have thought that by now (for certain foods) we would have moved towards a situation where you can take your own containers to the supermarket and somebody can fill it with the number of portions you require.
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#6 I’m not rich by any stretch of the imagination, but nor do I have the luxury of the time to make soup from my leftovers.
I do buy fruit and veg regularly, where do you get these green bags that you mention?
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Dear all,
Food is wasted by some – fact.
Food wastage is, on any view, a bad thing – fact.
Minimising food wastage is a good thing – fact.
Raising awareness of the issue is a good thing – fact.
Politicians main task is to raise such issues into the public arena – fact
End of debate.
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Kate 14
Perhaps these “sell by” or “best before” dates need to be revised…..the product was deemed fit for sale the previous day! What is 24 hours?
Besides these are only “sell” and “best” dates…..not expiry or death inducing dates so why can’t they be given away?
Proud Jerseyman 8
You may find it is mostly supermarkets wasting what they have failed to sell……so maybe the introduction of GST is a reason for this. People are becoming more frugal in these harder times.
J Lamborarri 20
Surely if the product is quality it would last longer or sell more……thus reducing the amount of wastage by the supermarket. Perhaps a better marketing strategy by the vendor would help reduce their excessive stocks….especially nearer the “sell by” or “best by” dates…..a reduced price is better than nothing ???
Julie 22
Supermarkets are part of the greed machine. If they can’t sell it they don;t want anyone else to have it. I remember when I was a kid working at the co-op we used to have a damaged goods barrel which sold fo a fraction of the price. I don;t see these anymore so they must bin all the dented cans or ripped boxes…..shame.
Why can’t the states get involved and work together with supermarkets….some of this wasted food could help those on benefits (maybe even reduce their cash payments and the burden on the taxpayer). The animal shelter would be very appreciative of any damaged pet food too.
The supermarket also has a responsibility to the community as far as I am concerned and this would go a long way to giving them a better image. I would certainly prefer to shop somewhere that contributes to the community.
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Kate 14.
I fear that rules of Public Health are simply a good excuse for not having ‘last minute’ prices or giving ‘dump-destined’ products away.
The real reason many stores ‘dump’ expired food (which is still edible) is due to the fact that dropping prices or giving it away would damage normal sales.
This is because, thrifty housewives and clever shoppers would wait for last minute bargains or mill around until closing time to obtain ‘perfectly good’ discarded products…
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Perhaps Senator Beckon will no doubt use this exercise to double the GST on food to 6% to discourage this apparent waste and at the same time balance the books. From my own experience and as Truthseeker points out a huge amount of waste is caused through our blind obedience to the consumer legislation blindly enforced by his own consumer council.
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South London Lad (21) – I believe our local M&S does already donate all their “just expired” food to the Shelter Trust.
Leah Holmes (32) – making soup is actually really quick and easy (I make soup all the time). Just a case of putting your leftover veg, meat, and whatever you like into a pan with a stock cube and water, bring to the boil and cook until the meat is cooked (sorry am a veggie so lacking the technicals re meat) and the veg is tender – half an hour max and most of that is just simmering time. You can then either whizz it in the blender if you like it smooth or leave it lumpy. In respect of the freezer in Jersey flats situation, I myself just have a standard sized fridge-freezer. It’s just a case of using what I have already in the freezer so there’s enough space for more before I go out shopping again.
Teresa (25) – could you not just put the excess raw sausages, chops, whatever in the freezer then take them out to defrost as and when you require?
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Only a shortage of food in the west will drive people to behave differently.
10 years ago, I remember reading an article about McDonalds and their Gherkins. They spent £8M per year in the UK alone on providing Gherkins in burgers, even though they knew over 70% of people pick them out and throw them away.
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Throw away food?
Not in my house.
I sometimes waste money on other things but never ever on food as i remember how we were deprived by lack of it as a child.
I remember only too well sitting in school with a rumbling belly and going home lunch time to no lunch.
So instead of learning the ABC i learnt to be shrewd instead.
I learnt the trick of the trade by relieving the farmers of a few apples and pears when in season.chestnuts even raw carrots and turnips was on the menu!
Its called survival.
And it has stayed with me for life and i hate seeing food thrown away.
Okay to throw away clothes books furniture whatever but never ever food.
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Of course, sell by dates are useful for shops as well.. ‘that milk is out of date. I’ll buy some more’ so it is their interests to have and enforce them. M & S in UK, as far as I know give their expired stock to charity. It is only in Jersey that you see the knocked down price goods ‘going out of date’ for sale…
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@ BS Deluxe #34 “…Surely if the product is quality it would last longer or sell more…” It doesn’t matter how long a product lasts, or how many sell, once it reaches the best before date it is deemed by the producer to start it’s decline in quality; for this reason they may choose not to sell it to protect their image. I don’t have a problem with this choice, and equally I’d applaud any retailer who would give their ‘waste’ to the needy: but I’m also aware that this may not be a simply decision as it in itself could have a cost.
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Disheartened (no. 37) believes our local M&S does already donate all their “just expired” food to the Shelter Trust.
While this is excellent news, it does make Marks & Spencer’s apparent decision not to see a just time-expired carton of juice look very absurd.
However, where can one find common sense or logic in commerce? Image is everything for some companies.
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While we are on the subject of food, does anyone know where I can buy jars or tins of ‘gefilte fish’?
Nostalgia and hunger is not a mix I enjoy!
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#34 You’re right, as long as we know it’s ‘out of date’ we should be allowed to buy it and take responsibility for ourselves.
#37 Thanks, I don’t eat meat either and I have made soup but it has always taken me a long time, maybe I’m just not a confident cook. I probably just have to worry a little less and just throw stuff together like other people seem to manage to do.
#33 You fail to understand that the issue has mostly arisen through no fault of our own, it has been forced upon us! We’re not allowed to buy food that is past a certain date even if we’re happy to. We don’t get the option of smaller packages of food for couples or a single parent with one child. Why should smaller family units be stuck with a less varied diet just because they’re trying to use up packages of food that were too large in the first place?
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If a supermarket wants to dump out of date items it should be allowed to place them in a big container outside of one of their buildings. By placing a sign NOT FIT TO BE EATEN BY HUMANS, then no one can take them to court as they have taken reasonable steps to warn people in my opinion. So why don’t they do it?
It is probably a case of having to dump it to stop people getting free food and therefore not buying it. So profit at the end of the day comes before environmental issues like waste.
Anyone who has gone through the occupation will realise that it is wrong to waste food. They also know about make do and mend. Fortunately many of the younger generation have not experienced depravation to this level, however the down side is that they are often wasteful whether with food or other items. The amount of waste today is criminal.
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Bella 39.
There’s no school like the school of ‘Life’.
It’s where we learn the ‘real’ 3 R’s: Reason, Resilience and Resourcefulness…and it sounds like you ‘Graduated with honours’!
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#45 Good idea Adrian, I’m sure Freeganism is catching on so it would get used.
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@ Adrian #45
“…By placing a sign NOT FIT TO BE EATEN BY HUMANS, then no one can take them to court as they have taken reasonable steps to warn people in my opinion. So why don’t they do it?…”
As reasonable as that sounds, and I don’t disagree with the theory; it wouldn’t work. People don’t have to read the sign, they’ll claim the print was too small and it’s the supermarkets fault for supplying them bad food that made them ill.
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given a population of 100,000 this works out at 440lbs of food each! have asked around the office and no one has enough wheelie bins for this amount. so someone somewhere is being a little wasteful
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#
46
Honour among thieves would be more befitting!
My hubby thinks i could teach the squirrels a thing or two about hoarding food,
Any-one would thing food is going out of fashion he says to me.
I know its a physiology thing. My mates call me the minesweeper when we go eating out,never leave anything on the plate and always first to finish
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Not much waste in my flat as i like to eat like a pig!!….I,m such a greedy gobble ganet!
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Tell a lie there!…I do tend to waste a tin of beans cos i,m too lazy to get a spoon and scrape out the ones at the bottom that don,t fall out with the main flock.
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Adrian 45.
I think your ‘WELL SIGNED’ discarded-food box idea is not only feasible but can also be defined a ‘socially useful’.
), in order to indicate/prove that the items have been discarded.
And, for safety’s sake, each food package could also be countermarked by a rather large indelible ‘X’ (for non-readers
In this way, persons alleging that they have been affected adversely by consuming deterious food would have no comeback on the store…as investigations would lead to an item which had been discarded, thus freeing the manufacturer, supplier and store from accusations of negligence, etc.
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#51 he he
Me too nothings sacred always stuffing my face and have panic attack if no cake or sweets in the house and I never put on weight.
Now we can get cheap biscuits and sweets from the pound world makes life a bit easier.
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There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics.
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@ Born Warrior #53
), in order to indicate/prove that the items have been discarded…”
“…And, for safety’s sake, each food package could also be countermarked by a rather large indelible ‘X’ (for non-readers
Surely you don’t believe that just because somebody puts a sign up it would assume the person reading the sign would then have to take responsibility for their actions?!
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J Lamborrari 56.
Re yor comment: “Surely you don’t believe that just because somebody puts a sign up it would assume the person reading the sign would then have to take responsibility for their actions?!”
Of course I do! I wouldn’t have said it otherwise.
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J Lamborrari 56.
I put a little error in my post…for ‘Old times’ sake!’
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I’m sure that top management at M&S (and their very expensive lawyers) would not allow their stores to give discarded foodstuffs to charitable organizations, unless they were more than sure that the risk of food-poisoning accusations (arising from their ‘gifts’) was ZERO.
Let me put it in a way I know you will understand…
A warning sign and clearly marked packages located ‘off private premises’ is more or less the same as putting a sign up saying:
“PUBLIC BEACH! DANGER QUICKSAND!
PARKING AT OWNER’S OWN RISK!
which is very different from
“PRIVATE PROPERTY! CLAMP ZONE!
YOUR PROPERTY WILL BE ‘HIJACKED’ (AND HELD TO RANSOM) IF YOU PARK HERE!
…and that is where you were going…n’est-ce pas?
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J Lamborrari I believe that the real reason out of date food isn’t given away to any large extent is simply down to profit.
Is any business going to want to give away free food when they know it will cut their profit margins as people wait for the freebies? I for one would make use of as much free food as possible, especially now things are so dear over here. I also think most others would do the same.
As per getting ill I believe this is to all intents and purposes a red herring, especially if you apply some common sense.
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M and S do give their food to charity for those of you who nothing about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do some research!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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try working or volunteer for one!
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health and safety does have a part which we all know is a load of old words i cant put on here!
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Deputy 61/62/63
You’ve obviously not read all the posts…at least, not in full!
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Deputy 61/62/63
If you are referring to 59. (which I think you are, but I may be wrong), you’ve taken things out of context. The reason M&S was mentioned, is simply because it is one of the largest ‘foodmarket chains’ which currently gives discarded products to charitable organizations (a well-known fact, so no RESEARCH!!!!!! required). And they do so without fear, because they (and their lawyers) know that the risk of food-poisoning accusations is “ZERO”.
The real question is: “Why don’t other stores follow suit?”
However, if you have time to read posts 35, 45, 48, 53, 56, 57, 59 and 60, you’ll get the gist!
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@ Born Warrior #59
“……and that is where you were going…n’est-ce pas?…”
I just think it’s terrible convenient to be able to put an argument against people taking responsibility for their actions in one case, then use the exact opposite argument in another case.
I’m now looking forward to your comments when some politician votes for something he claimed to be against during his election campaign, and how outraged you’re going to be that he didn’t stand by his words.
@Adrian #60
“…especially if you apply some common sense…”
The application of common sense, is sadly not something I expect from the majority of people all that often.
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You are so predictable and so way off mark!
I’ve always said that it’s wrong to park on private property (think back). What I don’t agree with is hijacking cars and taking away a person’s freedom to move.
Plus, I find it hard to see the similarities between:
- PUBLIC PLACE and PRIVATE PROPERTY;
- NATURAL HAZARD and CLAMP ZONE (Human threat);
- PARKING AT OWNER’S OWN RISK (your car ‘MAY SINK’ and become trapped) and (your car ‘WILL BE PURPOSELY IMMOBILIZED’ until you pay the ransom!
Oh, and by the way, don’t move the pieces on the board like last time. Only the Knight can jump over other pieces during its move and it always ends up on an opposite coloured square from where it started…like you!
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J Lamborrari 66.
Post 67. is for you, but that’s obvious, isn’t it? Only you could be compared to the ‘Knight’…
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@ Born Warrior #67
“I’ve always said that it’s wrong to park on private property (think back)…”
That’s not the issue here, try to keep to the subject in hand.
“…Plus, I find it hard to see the similarities between:…”
Just because you find it difficult doesn’t mean that it’s not the case. The point is that either you must accept that the wording of a sign can be accepted as passing on responsibility to the reader or not; you’ve argued both sides of the coin??
“…Oh, and by the way, don’t move the pieces on the board like last time…”
What are you talking about? please show me an example of me doing this, or stop making accusations of me that I’ve shown you to be guilty of.
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Sorry, are they suggesting that the bin men are the ones who are collecting this data for us?
Ok i dont mean to sound harsh but half of them look like they couldnt count to 10 yet alone conduct a survey.
Plus are we supposed to believe that they go through our bins and estimate the weight of the food in that particular bin vs other household refuse? and then keep a tally for the end of the day and collect all this data together? or is it more the case of “dave…how much food do you reckon they throw away?” “umm…loads?” “20,000 tonnes?” “um… yea”
Yes theres alot of waste in households but if the people are paying for that food is it not up to them if they want to eat it or throw it away?
As for the food establishments. there is an argument to say at the end of the day food that isnt sold should be given to staff or to the shelter. But from a Business point of view and a consumer id be raging if i found out that the £10 M&S meal i just paid for was going to some down and out drunk for free a few hours later. people would stop buying it out of principle.
I know this isnt the most constructive post ever but i just love moaning. after all i am a jersey boy!
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I believe M&S donate out of “sell” by date foodstuffs to the shelter, not out of “consume” by date.
When one buys foodstuff at M&S prices one would expect to be able to store it for the indicated time before consuming.
I am also sure that the Shelter staff do not consider their clients sub human and would not serve them food which would cause them harm. Surely if a shelter client became ill after consuming unsafe food supplied knowingly by the shelter they would have a good case for a compensation claim.
M&S trade on the reputation of their produce being 1st class, to sell cut price out of sell by foodstuffs would sully that reputation.
Slightly misquoted, Its the food M&S reject that make M&S the best
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J Lamborrari 69.
For an example of you ‘moving the pieces on the board’, please go to “Christmas appeal chairman resigns”
Born Warrior 31 @ J Lamborrari 30.
I wrote:
Firstly, you have changed “the fictional Christian story” (in post 13)
to
“whether the story/ies in the Bible are fiction” (in post 30)…
So, I would be grateful if you would make yourself clear, because these are two very different affirmations.
Still, I shall continue along the lines of the original point: “the fictional Christian story” and answer your questions.
You did not reply…very conveniently!
As for me arguing both sides of the coin, well, that’s another example of your rather confused interpretation of words.
I believe we are always responsible for our actions. That is why I said that a person who picks up ‘inviting’ goods from a clearly-mark discarded foodstuffs box has no comeback on the store.
You, on the contrary, obviously believe they do. However, M&S and their Lawyers ‘KNOW’ they don’t…but don’t allow them to shake your beliefs!
Furthermore, I have always maintained that a person who parks illegally should pay for their misdemeanor, but not on the spot and not under threat…go back and check.
I do not feel the need to continue this discussion, as what I have said so far is enough for anyone with sense.
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Born Warrior
J Lamborrari
…..pistols at dawn!!!!
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@Born Warrior #72
“…You did not reply…very conveniently!…”
I had not read your post; now that you’ve brought it to my attention I will reply.
Anybody interested can read why you’re wrong to use that as any kind of argument in that original thread; I don’t think it’s helpful to start cross quoting threads and subjects
“…You, on the contrary, obviously believe they do….”
Really? obviously? where have I said that?? If you can show me where I’ve made that obviously my position fine, but I trust that if/when you fail to do so you’ll admit this as an ‘example of YOUR rather confused interpretation of words.’
“…Furthermore, I have always maintained that a person who parks illegally should pay for their misdemeanor, but not on the spot and not under threat…go back and check…”
That is not under discussion in this thread, as I’ve said I think it’s unhelpful and confusing to bring irrelevance into the discussion. And you’ll excuse if I don’t bother/need to go back and check; I simply don’t care nearly as much about what said as you seem to think I should.
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J Lamborrari 74.
Now, which word in my last sentence in post 72 is confusing you?
Would it help if I gave you the latin translation of: “WHAT’S BEEN SAID IS ENOUGH FOR ANYONE WITH SENSE!”…”Dictum sapienti sat est!”. I suggest you check my translation and study the meaning in full…
And please don’t bother answering my old post, I find ‘circular’ arguments rather tiresome.
B.S. Deluxe 73.
WHAT! Pistols at dawn! Never!
J Lamborrari would side-step the bullet like he does the argument!
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@ Born Warrior #75
“…Now, which word in my last sentence in post 72 is confusing you?…”
Just because you don’t feel the need, doesn’t mean I’m going to just sit back while you make unfounded accusations expecting them to go unquestioned.
“…J Lamborrari would side-step the bullet like he does the argument!…”
What?! again you make an unfounded accusation; where have I side-stepped the argument? It’s you that has refused to answer my questioning of your accusations.
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