As you were!
Thursday 10th December 2009, 3:00PM GMT.
I’ll drink to that: Deputy Sean Power celebrates victory in the States with a pint in the Royal Square Picture: DAVID FERGUSON (00849381)
MINISTERIAL plans for huge duty increases have been defeated in a surprise States rebellion.
States Members voted 28-23 to reject fuel and tobacco duty rises of almost 10% and alcohol rises of 6.2%, which means that the duty rates will stay frozen – for now.
The decision adds £4.25 million to the expected £60 million deficit for next year. However, it might not be prudent to open the bubbly just yet.
Following Deputy Power’s victory, Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf said that he would consider bringing reduced duty increases back to the States early next year.
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I can’t see what is so great about this news because they still need to find the money and that will not go away. A populist vote which does not solve the problem and thats hardly original from these states members.
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Sen Ozouf might want to reflect on the rejection he has had and come back with some sensible cost cutting measures instead starting with our bloated infrastructure…..No no dreaming again back to the real world !!!!
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I’ve never heard a more sulky response by a States Member (BBC) “I’d like to reassure the respite services and health departments they’ll still get their money….sniff”.
Anyone want to bet me a fiver on the most essential service that’ll ‘have to be cut’ in a bit sulky fit next week?
What about Members’ salaries, new sculptures or a freeze on new high-level civil service positions. Can’t see Honest Nev taking any money on them…
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Glad Ozouf lost this one. The treasury should be looking to cut spending dramatically before attempting to sweep away the problem with easy taxes.
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Although this is good for the economy at the moment, let’s wait and see what the boy Ozouf does next year !!!
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HI SEAN, I HOPE IT’S NOT DURING WORK HOURS? 3 CHEERS FROM ALL THE LADS AT THE LOCAL , AND BRYAN NEXT DOOR !
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Yet another half baked proposition from Senator Ozouf.
You lost, it is the budget.
If you want another bite at the cherry you will have to wait until next year.
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It’s a repreive anyway, how can you justify such increases in a year when the lucky amongst us still have jobs but haven’t had a pay rise and many others have lost their jobs.
You can’t just keep taxing the working man to extinction,I remain unconvinced that these increases will be held off until things improve but any freeze is welcome.
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To quote Ozouf:
“I want to reassure those departments that were going to get the money, the nursing establishment, the respite care, the recycling and the improvement to the bus services – they will get their money.”
Personally I think it’s an absolute disgrace the way the states members have voted. Gaping hole that needs to be filled, but oh no, we will continue to smoke, drink and drive gas guzzlers. All at the detriment to the people in our society that truly need help and support.
Those 28 should know better.
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@Jersey Boy #7
You obviously have more money than sense.
Why should those who “smoke, drink and drive gas guzzlers” be penalised? It’s not there responsibility to support those “in our society that truly need help”
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Please now cut spending.
We have had enough of tax rises. Stop spending more. Freeze all budgets inc education and health and cut EDD and sport and leisure.
If we keep taxes low we will get growth.
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As somebody else said this does not solve the black hole problem it just makes it worse. The 28 people who voted for the ‘peoples vote’ have no backbone and have only shifted the problem for a potential backlash with GST in the future. The States members that also keep on implying that this is Ozouf’s money are just being stupid as per usual.
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In these dark days of global recession the Irish Prime Minister has announced he will take a 20% pay cut. David Cameron wants UK MP’s to take a 5% pay cut.
In Jersey, uniquely, we have a high percentage of Ministers with personal million pound bank accounts. Would it not now be reasonable to expect them to follow the example of those other democratic leaders and take a pay cut to help the island’s finances?
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At the risk of attracting heavy flak, I have to point out that the money has to come from somewhere, so why not alcohol and tobacco? They both cause health problems and this impacts on the budget of the Health Department.
As for those of you that call for cut backs; what front line services do you want to cut back? The Fire & Rescue Service? The Ambulance Service? Police? Hospital? Refuse & Cleansing? Well I guess we could reduce the number of unnecessary senior managers with their fat cat salaries.
I imagine if they don’t raise taxes through a tax on booze and tobacco, Messrs Ozouf and Le Sueur will look at raising income tax……sorry folks we can’t win. We have to pay for the faux pas of the bankers, who lent too much money to people who couldn’t pay.
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‘As somebody else said this does not solve the black hole problem it just makes it worse. The 28 people who voted for the ‘peoples vote’ have no backbone and have only shifted the problem for a potential backlash with GST in the future. The States members that also keep on implying that this is Ozouf’s money are just being stupid as per usual.’
If the CoM think that they will be able to ‘magic’ away the budget deficit by raising GST to 9-12% they had better start thinking again as they just will not get it through the States.
Even if the States protect the old by raising pensions etc, middle Jersey will face a huge reduction in its standard of living.
Comfortably off people on £25 -40,000 a year will need a lot more money to preserve their standard of living and that will not be forthcoming in either the private or public sectors.
Country Deputies and Constables that are normally returned unopposed will face candidates who will give them a stiff challenge if they vote for measures that impoverishes this key constituency!
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A simple and socially fair way to plug the tax hole is to tax the wealthiest more, and to ensure that our highly esteemed 1(1)K’s actually pay their tax! Anyone remember a couple of years ago that there were about a dozen of these 1(1)K’s who were claiming to be unable to pay their tax. It was a news item in the JEP. That all went very quiet.
Those earning 100k plus should pay 22.5%, and those earning 200k (and there are many of these in Jersey!) should pay 25% For those who have done a runner from the UK, this is still cheaper than the UK tax for these high earners, it is 50% there!
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@ George #16
“A simple and socially fair way to plug the tax hole is to tax the wealthiest more…”
Simple? yes, fair? no; how is it fair to charge those that benefit least, in practice, from services provided by taxation should pay the most?
Just because something is easy, doesn’t make it fair.
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Our Chief Medical Officer has spent millions on the avian and swine flu scares,without recourse to the States in a “nanny knows best” scenario of doom if you don’t follow her imported advice from her numerous directives from the health mandarins in the UK.This has resulted in yet another open cheque book scenario,and now we learn that the claimed swine flu pandemic was apparently fuelled by dodgy commercial interests. It has come to nothing and yet Jersey continues to be exposed to more demands for more limitless expenditure in assuaging the threat of claimed dire pandemics. The proposed and now rejected levy on increased tax on drinks and tobacco was a trade off from our CMO to pay for this. Either Senator Ozouf was compliant or just plain gullible.
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No one is forced to spend money on drink and a 2p rise in the duty on a pint would hardly be noticed. This decision was the spineless States at their very worst, and I hope the electorate are smart enought to realise this.
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THey could start by stopping the health tourists using our medical facilities and also stop paying for immigrants to bring their elderly over and WE pay for them – this is totally insane – and is nothing new – this was revealed last year and nothing appears to have been done.
INCOMPETANCE
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Well done Realist and spot on.We now need to know the true cost of the Swine flu fiasco from Dr.Geller and maybe see a cut in her £ 140k salary.
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Is it simply the case that once you earn six-figures you can be truly rubbish at your job, screw up everything for everyone and still retain said job?
Why is it that if I was as incompetent at my job as those who caused the financial crisis are at theirs that I would get kicked out but they get bonuses? Or in the case of politicians, they don’t get bonuses but they don’t lose out either.
I’m beginning to think the world needs to do a very thorough check on anyone earning over 6 figures and see if they actually are competent, I wonder how many could be got rid of and we could all be saved some money.
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# 16,George wrote:
“For those who have done a runner from the UK, this is still cheaper than the UK tax for these high earners, it is 50% there!”
Dead right George. There must be thousands of significally wealthy people in the UK who would love to live in Jersey because it is (was?) a very pleasant place to live. They would happily move to the island if taxed 10% or maybe even 5% less than they are in the UK.
Why are the States pandering to the 1(1)Ks?
If they don’t like tax increases let them push off to the desert scenery of mega rich Dubai and thus free up some housing stock for people who appreciate the true value of living in the unique environment of the Channel Islands.
They could be classified 1(1)ILs – for Island Lovers and probably wouldn’t even mind living in Dandara flats or nursing homes in order to enjoy the island.
States, if you would like any more advice from me all you have to do is bring me over from the mainland as consultant. I don’t even have to become a J Cat!
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Realist
Nanny who? be careful who’s Nannie you talk about
you could end up insulting all the nanny;s in the would and that my friend would never do
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Valid points R B Bougourd. I am sure some rich people would quite happily pay 20% or even a bit more to avail themselves of a place like Jersey.
I would be delighted to have a lot more of these types in Jersey as would everyone I would think.
You are right about the states as far as I am concerned, it is my opinion that they pander to anyone with money.
It is time for common to prevail. There are better ways of doing things, it is a case of trying to get those in charge to realise this or else remove them at the next elections.
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17 J Lamborrari
Paying taxes is not just about “benefitting” from them !
I pay plenty of income tax, social security & parish rates and yet I barely “benefit” from my contributions.
I don’t use the bus service because it’s poor so I drive….and am subsequently taxed even more. I pay for parking and am taxed.
I am rarely ill and never in hospital, but should I need medical care I have private healthcare through my employers.
I pay for my own security and insurance in case of crime….the police force cannot be relied upon in my opinion.
I’m sure there are thousands of other taxpayers who do not benefit as much either so why should the rich get away with it??
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I noticed that half the constables voted one way, and the the rest voted the other way.
So it’s NOT true that the constables always vote en bloc!
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@ BS Deluxe #26
“…Paying taxes is not just about “benefitting” from them !…”
I agree, and didn’t say otherwise; what I said was, that just because somebody is wealthy isn’t a fair reason to tax them, in my opinion.
For example, from your post I could assume that you have plenty of money to be able to pay for the expenditure you list; would you consider it fair if because of this extra wealth(in comparison to me say) that you’re taxed at a higher rate? Obviously you would lose the option to secure and insure yourself for example.
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J lamborrari
I apologise if I misinterpreted your comment “how is it fair to charge those that benefit least”.
I can assure you I am not wealthy, but I am heavily taxed to support those less well off. I barely have enough left to enjoy any luxuries…..a take-away once in a blue moon is a nice treat!
I could never dream of owning my own house in Jersey and I am local….it’s sad to think my future lies outside of my birthplace if I want to settle down and own my own home. Besides there is no way I would pay half a million for a bog standard 2/3 bed semi with a minute garden even if I could afford it. If I had this sort of money I could retire early to somewhere like South Africa.
I have to drive because I cannot rely on the bus service to get me to work on time and then back home. Believe me I would rather save money and use the bus…..then I could have a pint after work too without worrying about drink driving.
I have to pay insurance because I cannot afford to replace anything if it gets damaged or stolen and I cannot rely on the police to deal with the crime and catch any burglars. Last time I was burgled I was just given a standard letter to pretty much empathise and acknowledge the crime……that was it.
Healthcare is a perk from work so I don’t pay anything towards it.
In a lot of places outside of Jersey my salary may be considered fantastic, but sadly it only helps me to get by in Jersey – rent is extortionate. I know of plenty of people on benefits who have it better…they may not have as much income, but they also have nowhere near the same expenditure.
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This Planet #27
Nice try but, one swallow does not a summer make.
I think you should refer to the public voting records which will show, as a general rule, that the Connetables do indeed vote en bloc.
As I said, nice try – no cigar.
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Maybe, but it does prove that they don’t ALWAYS vote en bloc. I stand by my belief that the constables are the States Members most in touch with reality (as they deal with real people with real problems in the real world on a daily basis), and if they tend to act conservatively then they are a stabilising force which prevents the States from being too reactionary. In the absence of a second chamber like the UK House of Lords, they perform a similar role to keep ill thought-out propositions at bay. No wonder the new anti-establishment members object so much
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More tax on alcohol and tobacco is the obvious thing to do! who cares if we’re paying a few pence more per pint or twenty pence more for a pack of fags, its not a great deal of money for the individual – but taken as a whole society the tax can produce a great amount of money as pointed out by the article. And, although very unlikely, may but people off smoking and drinking, a win-win situation!!
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and yes i drink and smoke and earn less than 25K
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This Planet #31
Well said.
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30 Stan still..you are so right..we need those constables out as they mostly vote not only en bloc but right up the establishment’s disposal unit.
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George they should at least contribute the same in percentage terms as the rest of the residents are expected to. I am sure even Lamborrari would agree that that would be fair to all.
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@ Adrian #36
“…they should at least contribute the same in percentage terms as the rest of the residents are expected to. I am sure even Lamborrari would agree that that would be fair to all…”
As a rule, yes; but I do think there can be exceptions.
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