Double decker bus trials
Monday 21st December 2009, 2:59PM GMT.
A double decker used to be a familiar sight in Jersey
DOUBLE-DECKER buses could be back on Island roads early next year.
Transport Minister Mike Jackson has confirmed that his department is working with Connex to try to solve the problems of overcrowding on buses and rush-hour traffic.
Mr Jackson, the Constable of St Brelade, said they are hoping to trial the ‘five-metre’ buses in the next few months. ‘We are taking this very seriously. I have to address the bus capacity issue as a matter of urgency,’ he said.
It is not the first time that the head of the Transport department has promised to bring back double-decker buses, which have not been on Jersey roads since the 1947 Leyland PD1 ‘decker’ – which used to park along the railings of the once familiar Victoria Gardens – were taken out of service in the early 1970s.
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Forget double decker buses and consultation with Connex.
Isn’t the answer just to put on extra buses on busy routes ?
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Oops! they won’t go into the bus station!?! I would just like to say thanks to Mike for reacting like a typical politician and just ignoring all the comments made months ago about first ensuring we have a bus service that works for the people of Jersey, the last Dodo Idea for 2009 – we can but hope!!!
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should make interesting viewing down those small country lanes.
perhaps a more frequent service would solve the overcrowding?
such extreme measures for such a small problem.
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You won’t get me on one of them things – there’s no driver on the top!
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About time to. A cost effect way to double up transport. Perfect for the busier routes. I had mentioned this as a good option quite a few years ago…
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… mind you that was when they were based at the Weighbridge. If they don’t fit in the new bus centre they can always give them some spaces to park nearby at……THE WEIGHBRIDGE.
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They want more people to use the bus. But they don’t provide bus shelters. People have to stand in the wind in rain soaked before getting to work.
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@ Spring Heeled Jack #1
“…Isn’t the answer just to put on extra buses on busy routes?…”
Probably not; while a more frequent service would be great throughout the day, the capacity issue is only really during peak times, when you want as few vehicles out on the road, so double-decked/capacity vehicles are the answer.
This soloution will however show up(further) the poor design of the new bus station: What are the odds that this trial will be delayed, and start the week before the next brancage; with hilarious results!
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forget about double decker buses bring back double decker chocolate bars
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Somebody has been at the Calvados! Wrong time of year, should be April the First. 1) Each batch of buses is built to contract. There is no such thing as a standard bus. Chassis and running gear come from one place, then coachbuildes build bodies on. The pip squeack order that Connex will put in will either A) Not intrest anybody B) Cost a fortune as the vehicles will have no resale value. 2) With a requirment to carry wheelchairs a vehicle has to be Eight Feet wide. no getting away from it, that equates to about ten feet wide across the mirrors. The problem is that whilst the mirrors will fit over cars, they won’t when you meet a van or other lorry on a narrow road. 3) Deckers (As the trade calls them), slow down routes, especially if OPO (One Person (PC) Operation, or the delightful old name of OMO buses. The reason for this is that using middle doors and an upper deck means longer for people to get on and off. this also knocks on to general traffic floe where dedictaed bus lanes are absent. The time added can be as much as 1/3. 4) Height above the road. In UK the minimum height a tree bracnch must be above a main road is thirteen feet. Most Decker’s are now at least fourteen feet high.5) Capacity, a Decker does not double the capacity of a single. No standing passengers are allowed on the upper deck. 6) Buggies, every bus drivers bette noir, Deckers due to the ned for stronger structure and to accomadate stairs have less, buggy, cargo capacity for the same number of standing or sitting passengers.
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Bring back the J.M.T…..what about the open top double decker bus, known a ‘toast racks’? Why stop there let’s have the British Rail ferries, with the St. Patrick, the Jersey Airlines De Havland Heron, white police Jaguars….nothing wrong with nostalgia. I think the double deckers would be a great idea.
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I used to love being on the upper deck going to either Gorey (SCS) or Corbiere (JMT).
I have never understood why they were taken out of service.
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I take it that these “deckers” will be able to traverse the Tunnel?
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Double Dockers buses? If you ask me this is the’ bright idea’ of some overpaid civil servant trying to dream up solution to an ill considered problem.
1. Between 1930 and 1970 the old Jersey Eastern Railway bus routes operated from Snow Hill, the old Railway Depot. The then radical idea was to centralize all the bus services on the then Victoria Gardens. Gone now in part under the Royal Yacht Hotel.
2. The Double Decker was suited to neither Mount Bingham or the ‘new’ tunnel. This constraint will still exist in 2010.
What is both needed is an efficient bus service that gets the passenger from A to B in the minimum of time. Not a solution according to the responsible TTS manager as it would encourage car divers to follow a bus into work!
With TTS running our buses we destined to gridlock.
Re: J Lamorrari @ 8
Correct only in part. Capacity would also be doubled by halving journey times. Less traffic happy passengers. Pie- in-the-sky? No just simple operations management. Believe me, it works; but not with the Jersey Civil Service.
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Clearly #10 knows a lot about busses !
These modern ‘deckers have very limited seating on the lower deck, and being on the airport run, the lower deck would have to be reserved for airport passengers with their luggage and thouse with push chairs etc. So thouse simply hopping on in town and alighting at First Tower say would have to go upstairs !
It may work, but I have me doubts !
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WASTE OF TIME, WASTE OF MONEY. p.s #11 it’s De Haviland.
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Shall the branchage cutters & company operate an annual service around the island to remove overhanging branches on these doubledecker routes.
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@ Mark #14
“…Capacity would also be doubled by halving journey times. Less traffic happy passengers. Pie- in-the-sky? No just simple operations management…”
Sorry, but I don’t understand what you’re saying? How does moving people quicker increase capacity?
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Wareren, I’ve been driving the damm things round London for the lsat seven years now! Part of the problem is that buses run at peack capacity bettween about 07:30 and 09:30 on weekday mornings and 15:00 to around 19:00 in the evenings, And Guess what? That’s the time most people who don’t use a bus use a car! London also has the tube, (Underground), the new Overground srvice, plus various railways running into it. They in theory have total control of their running enviroment. About 999 times every three months (That is the number of ‘resolution’ codes for electronic ticket cards before returning to 001)there are ‘Ticket holder requests’ for the buses to carry passengers as the other services have major problems. I do sympathise with the states, in that improve public transport, everyone will say ‘Yeah right on, carbon footprint, enviroment etc, but the thought will be there ‘As long as I am not the one using it. It will mean my car journey is quicker’. Jersey has the highest car owner per capita in Europe. A jar of miricale worker, and a tin of insiration please.
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Double Decker buses will be too expensive to run and will not fit in the new Bus Station.
I would happily catch a later bus to avoid crowding on the 5pm buses to St Lawrence, if there were any later buses… hint hint
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Jon # 16; thank you for correcting my typographical error…..you obviously knew Olivia de Havilland and she’d probably recall the double deckers as well. Doesn’t de Havilland have two ‘L’s and not one as in your entry….I know your typographical error.
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Are we just going around in circles? “Deckers” were replaced for a reason weren’t they?
How about some innovation on this rock?
What about a monorail? A small train service along the front (and not the stupid tourist train either)? Park and Ride (on a larger scale)? Tram?
We need a cheap, reliable and frequent service……how about some competition????
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I love double deckers..eat the top floor first then the crispy cereal bit on the bottom floor.
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BS Deluxe # 22. I know just the thing for cheap and reliable travel…how about ‘rickshaws’? Or better still Tuk tuk auto rickshaw…….see http://www.tuk-tuk.co.uk/
These would suit the island’s speed limits and would be a novelty that would attract tourism.
We could even have ‘Tuk tuk’ honorary police cars, to save rate payers having to fork out so much on cars in which Centeniers can do their shopping.
The possibilies are endless……
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“how about ‘rickshaws’? Or better still Tuk tuk auto rickshaw?”
Some 10 seater minibuses would do just even better, without looking like total misfits.
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The best i,ve seen is the Dart in dublin.
Small trains suited for the purpose and the recently Laus trams to reduce traffic in the city.
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There’s a few bendy buses going begging in London..
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“There’s a few bendy buses going begging in London..”
They’d go over the dreaded line on Mount Bingham hairpin.
All right for a shuttle service to St Aubin though.
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R B Bougourd # 25…..You can not be serious – I wasn’t; Tut tut…tuk tuk! Look at my ‘nome de plume’.
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try walking or cycling save yourselfs some money too!….simples!
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R.B. , Ivor. The small buses , agin trade names Optare, or Road Rats,are gashtly things to drive. They are shorter, but no narrower than the buses Connex use now.They are actually less manoverable due to the wheel placement. The trouble any bus for Jersey will come up against is obvious to those who know, Transverse engines! Look at the picture of the PD. The engine is in the front, and mounted longditudal. Modern vehiocle have rear mounted transverse engine, so the width of the vehicle is dictated by the length of the engine and the need to mount ancillarys. So use a shorter engine? Then you haven’t got the power to pull off, or the engine is under so much stress due to the bore reliabilty is nil.
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Actually, as a regular bus user trying to do my bit…I welcome the idea as overcrowding is the major problem.
however as i discovered on talking with a number of colleagues over our christmas lunch, there are way too many bus snobs… one person hadnt ever even been on a bus! perhaps if the buses werent so crowded then maybe you would get more passengers and then the chelsea tractors could get their little darlings to school easier… ahh rant…
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Deputy Dawg # 30….excellent idea; bring back the green bike scheme….towing a rickshaw of course!
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The bus service for town residents is useless.
Even though i have a pass i have to walk everywhere.
I don,t mind walking,as i am a brisk walker,but when the weather is bad and i am loaded with shopping it takes 20 Min’s to walk home with me shoulders aching.
Also i walk up to gym at fort regent 3 times a week and no bus goes there either.
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@ J Lamborrari #18
Thank you for the opportunity to respond.
If you study how the Japanese motor industry, as I have done, you will discover that they systems are based on simplified queuing and signalling systems called ‘kanban’. It is used to build multiple car types on a single production line; read many diverse passengers going to diverse locations. Result self regulating control systems for complex demand requirements.
1 bus = 2 bus? If the journey time, for a 30 seat bus between St Aubin and St Helier is 30 minutes the round trip will be 1 hour = 30 passengers per hour. If you cut the journey time to 15 minutes, you can make two round trips per hour = 60 passengers per hour.
As Tony B #10 has pointed out a Double Decker is likely to slow the system. More passengers moved more slowly. Not a well considered solutions, especially as it will drive up costs.
Our civil servants have not grasped the fundamentals of Operations Management
@ bella #26
Yes bella spot on, but yet again TTS management have already indicated to me that they have closed their minds to this commonsense mass transit solution.
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Tony,
I was thinking more on the lines of the big modern Hiace minibusses used in many countries and sometimes known as Maxi Taxis.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Toyota_Hiace_Van_010.JPG
Some places use prepaid tickets and passes only so the driver carries no cash.
No I know which routes you drive, I will look out for you!!!
Happy Christmas
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RB, The London transport use a system called Oyster (Because with one the world is your ….I didn’t name it!) Prepaid is an answer that would suit Jersey. It is quick, and cheaper, no carting cash about. The ohter thing that helps, beside a good service, is a cheap service. As long as you expect public transport to make a profit, it won’t. Tracy, you are right, but the srvice must be safe and clean. Buses tend to be used by younger people and those, well to be polite, have a less developed social sense.I might drive buses, but am loath to travel on them because of anti social behaviour.This has to be adressed by the society served. Buggies and packages etc. are a problem, especially with some bugies being the size of builder’s skips. The idea of a dedictaed service running along the front from St aubin to St Helier could be viable.Jersey developed motor bus networks as trains were impractical. The area of Jersy is about the size of Central London, considerably less than Greater London. Yet Central Zone is covered by about 150 Transport for London routes.
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Tony B..
I will be having a meeting in January with TTS (date to be confirmed) regards the States proposed new Transport Strategy and my submission to it. I will certainly take your responses with me as they are sensible and highlight the the ill thought out idea of double decker buses on Jersey’s roads and the huge problems they would face with operational objectivity.
Kind Regards Roy Travert
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Mike Jackson’s proposal to conduct a pilot trial using 5M high double deckers seems sensible.
Lets not knock projects before pilot trials have been carried out, and results ascertained.
Taking a reactive rather than a proactive approach to all new proposals seems to be both a British and Jersey habit.
If the trial does not work, then we go back to the drawing board, and try an alternative.
Otherwise if we go on like this, we will have no progress, and return to the dark ages.
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