Island has say on filling pension gap
Tuesday 29th December 2009, 2:57PM GMT.
People made their feelings on pensions known by responding to the Jersey Annual Social Survey
MOST people would prefer to alter pension rules to cope with the impact of an ageing population, either by increasing contributions or by levying extra contributions above the earnings ceiling of £42,480.
This was among the findings of the Jersey Annual Social Survey, the results of which have just been made public.
Three other possible measures – reducing the value of the States pension, increasing the age at which it is paid, and means testing – were favoured by fewer people.
The reduced value option was particularly unpopular, three-fifths of adult respondents to the survey describing the measure as ‘unacceptable’ or ‘very unacceptable’.
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I find it very strange that the civil servants final salary and index linked pensions are never mentioned!!!
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Jerseyjag – what an odd thing to say. As I write this 100% of the comments on this article mention the civil servants final salary and index linked pensions.
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Extra contributions from people earning more than £42,480. If that happens you can chalk up another thank you to the high earners coming to your island – who are keeping your economy and social welfare at a higher level than if it were dependent on local yokels.
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The civil service on going final salary pensions will be the issue that finally bankrupts the island, it is already a massive ‘black hole’ which is being swept under the carpet for future generations, the private sector have seen thre light and all but witdrawn final salary pensions, the States might one day but only when we are a busted flush.
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I have yet to ever meet anyone who has completed these surveys and how does a survey of maybe 2 – 3 thousand people (if that) or so equate with an Island-wide opinion?
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“the private sector have seen thre light”
Don’t worry Doctor, I am sure this is only a temporary glitch and the private sector will redress the balance in their own favour as soon as things perk up again.
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#5
I agree
We are constantly told % of surveys favour this that and the other I have never meet any-one either that has completed one.
I think using “surveys” is their way of bringing in something without consulting the public.
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Re #6, the private sector has certainly seen the light and I certainly do not regard switching (or being forced) from a Defined Benefit pension to a Defined Contribution pension as being a tempoary glitch, my friend ! The move is one way and there is no going back!
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I do agree with the majority opinion of those surveyed.
Although I too have never met anyone who took part in one of these surveys and I’d like to know who they survey and how?
One option I’d suggest is to give people who can prove that they have their own pension scheme in place, the option to take a cash payment at retirment age – less than the anticipated States pension payout based on average life expectancy, but enough to make the proposition attractive to people who can prove that they have their own means of support without the States pension. That would save a little bit?
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Hello C Le Verdic
You are rather sadly missing the point, the Private sector pays from its own internal Funding the majority of schemes now witdrawn permanently, the States pay from the taxpayer, even when as now they cannot afford too !!
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No 3, I guess people are getting pretty sick of unwarranted and naive comments like that!
The rich are only rich because people are paying criminally low wages to others, others who have skills and abilities, often beyond those of the ‘rich’. The money is not rightfully theirs, it’s got at others’ expense. No-one in finance, industry, or politics is worth the ridiculous salaries that some get paid, absolutely no-one.
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Another flailing value judgement from no 11. Certainly the increase in the multiple of average worker salaries the CEO’s of many companies get is questionable when you have remuneration committees packed with “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine” types. But you’ve got to rememember that a lot of these people in finance and the like have worked extreme hours all their life to get the best qualifications, had no social life and have dedicated their existence to reach the top of their relative professions or industry. Did you know that in the UK the top 1% of earners pay 25% of the total income tax? Tax that is used for schools (which their kids don’t use), the NHS (which they rarely use)etc so another big subsidy there. I don’t think we live in the UK or here in a society where the robber barrons of monopoly capitalism still exist. Its a lot more complicated than that. And yes the Conservative party is going to expand the Sure Start programme in the UK if they get in so they don’t seem to want to keep people down and in their place as it were. I truly loath the behaviour of those in the finance industry whose wreckless lending (to increase their own remuneration via fees etc) has shackled future generations with government debt and they should be held to account as they do in the US. But I don’t think they are in the majority or even a sizeable minority.
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I earn around £20,000.00 per annum and as an employee pay 6% SocialSecurity contributions.If someone earns over £43,000.00 per annum,why should they pay less of a percentage than me.
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Re #13, I understand that everyone in this island pays contributions based on a salary of £43,000, thouse earning less have their contributions topped up from the public purse in order that they get the same level of benefits – i.e. full state pension.
That is the reasoning behind the ceiling, I believe. And anyway, thouse earning more pay a proportionally larger percentage of tax based on the fact that their allowances are reduced.
Perhaps thouse who wish to see the Social Security ceiling lifted would advocate the state pension being paid on a defined contribution basis, rather than a flat rate as it currently stands !
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‘god’s mentor’? either tongue in cheek (i hope) or massively delusional. either that or some hubris is heading your way.
good job the expression ‘local yokel’ is not – technically – racist but its hardly a term of endearment.
thank you for gracing us with your presence and saving us from ourselves.
and to Tom Jones – ok the tax take from the richest quartile is proprotionately higher, but dont forget that by the time they have paid a clever accountant to dodge out of what they possibly can, they dont end up paying much more than a net 2 or 3%! and yes, the irony does not escape me that a chunk of that wealth is ‘resting’ on our shores.
Leah Holmes has a point in that very few of the ludicrously rich have any consideration for those poorer than themselves, and view taxation as something to be avoided at almost any cost
Remember Fred Goodwin?
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Warren J
Thanks for your response.
If those earning less than £43,000.00 have their contributions topped up by the States,from where does that money come from.Which State department or fund?
And how do you mean,higher earners pay more tax as a percentage, as their allowances are reduced.I thought we all paid the same flat rate of income tax (unless you are 1/1K).With those on lower salaries getting more allowances.I don’t think that if you are a high earner you will be paying more tax as a percentage of your annual salary.
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No 15, did you not read my post properly? The top 1% of individual tax payers in the UK pay 25% of the total income tax collected there, a million miles away from your translation of that as “the richest quartile paying proportionately more”. Those figures are from the UK government’s stats dept.
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If people are forced to contibute more, our quallies system will come under even closer scrutiny. Why should residents pay more to the States, but still be forced to live in terrible conditions for 11 years? People will look elsewhere to make a life, and ultimately it’s the workforce that subsidizes the growing pensions.
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#17 “The top 1% of individual tax payers in the UK pay 25% of the total income tax collected there” And if wages were more equal the lower paid would be paying more and the higher paid would be paying less and it would even out!
My argument is based on the number of people I’ve met who could be working in Finance (they have the training) but chose to leave. They do not consider it remotely demanding and feel that for the most part people just follow a formula or pattern. They decided to move to jobs where they were really having to make decisions. I’m sorry if it offends you, but you won’t get me to buy into the “working at high levels of Finance is only for the very clever” because my friends that have done it would say otherwise.
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#12 I’ll add that I will quite happily pay more tax but only when those ripping me off with their prices (to subsidise their lifestyle) treat their hard-working, dedicated staff better!
I’ve only met one business owner in Jersey so far who treats their staff properly. I’ve met numerous others who refuse to give out contracts, bully staff and pay immigrants more than locals for doing the same job!
I do not wish to finance their richness anymore than I have to do to eat! And at least I can see that that’s what I’m doing.
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Leah – I think you’re missing the point that #17 is trying to make. I think your friends who can work in finance with their qualifications can only be working in a set division in finance (probably book keeping if they work with formulae) but there are thousands of different jobs that all require different qualifications and each of those jobs are awarded different wages. In order to be a relationship manager or a CEO (The finance workers who earn 6 figure salaries) they will have to have several different qualifications and have to work their butts off while studying and incidentally they will be studying and working throughout their entire life as whenever the law changes they have to re learn it and do another exam. They have little time for socialising and even less for a family – their “rich” status comes at a price.
I’m of the belief that those who have worked for their position deserve every penny they get even if it is a ridiculous amount, i worked hard at school and studied – i have also taken one set of exams in finance (ICSA) and so I earn a considerable amount more. Two people that work in BHS (who went to school with my brother) have slagged office workers off as they “don’t deserve the money” but those people failed at school because they were too busy bullying the kids wanting to learn!
Anyone can be earning that much money – providing they do the work and the studying, but people are lazy or more family focussed so they don’t… that doesn’t mean you can critisize those that sacrifice their social and family life for that ridiculous salary – after all they are paying their way which is more than the teenage dropouts who sponge off the state.
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For years we have said we do not want the population to increase… and have been ignored.
Our glorious government have allowed and continue to allow people to flood in so they will undercut locals by working for lower wages. These immigrants are the ‘ageing population’ problem as they have not earnt enough to buy a house, have a private pension or savings.
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#22 Overpopulated – If we attempt to reduce the population, who’s going to fill the pension hole burning away in the States pockets?
#18 Darren is right. If we want to avoid a potential disaster, we need to keep encouraging workers here. This obviously comes at a cost, our quality of life will be destroyed by a rising population. If the world of finance fragments, we are in big,big trouble. We’ll have no option, but to consider removing our quallies system, especially for lettings
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Island has say…And so do we,hny to all who post here,we are concerned about our society and what happens,,and do have an influence….keep it coming ,
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Lula, I wasn’t missing the point and my friends were certainly not bookkeepers
I just realise from living in Jersey that some in the finance industry really big up how intelligent you have to be to work at the upper ends of it, and I dispute that.
I think there are certainly personality traits that it is beneficial to have, and I don’t have them, but I’m not remotely convinced it is about intelligence.
I’m not saying they’re stupid by any means, just you’re normal intelligent people. Some talk on here as if finance workers are the most intelligent people in the world, and I really dispute that.
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Obligatery euthanasia for over 75′s??
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Lula, many professions require people to continually study throughout their lives.
More to the point, many other people choose to continually study because their brains demand it of them.
However, academia and studying is not the point. A lot of people could pass an exam if they studied hard enough, that’s not the same as finding it easy. There will be some in finance that find it all very easy, there will be those that have simply worked their butt off. I don’t criticise either, I just say that working in finance doesn’t make you the most intelligent person in the world
As for my friends, one of them is certainly the most intelligent person I have met, and I’ve met a heck of a lot of very smart people, the others are definitely up there too.
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Nellie #5 Bella #7
Interesting (but typical) comments seeing as those numbers are more than double enough for the supporters and petitioners of the Town Park and No GST campaigns. Another case of cherry picking figures to suit whatever particular cause you hold, or in this case don’t hold, favour for. There’s no hope!
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We have an ageing population because our government have allowed people to come to the island and work for low wages, they have then been given states accommodation and are a burden to taxpayers.
We need to cut down the number of low paid jobs that attract low skilled immigrants, ie the number of takeaways in St Helir.
Our government is now giving them welfare after 5 years and also taking in their aged relations as revealed before Xmas – how does this pay for our current aged?
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