We need leeway, insists architect
Tuesday 5th January 2010, 2:58PM GMT.
Mr Waddington says that planning restrictions should be relaxed
PLANNERS must drop heritage restrictions and requirements for developers to include ‘discount’ homes in new projects if plans to redevelop St Helier are to succeed, according to a senior architect.
Mike Waddington said that the new Island Plan promised an emphasis on building in the town rather than on green fields, but says that higher land prices in St Helier would make development there impossible unless planners made concessions.
And Mr Waddington, who is the head of the Association of Jersey Architects, has urged the Planning Department to come up with detailed guidance at the same time as the new Island Plan so that developers, architects, planners and politicians all know exactly what the plan means and what rules they have to follow.
Mr Waddington said that tight restrictions on height, density and heritage had to be relaxed, but added that the rule requiring 40 per cent of a new development to be sold at an ‘affordable home discount’ was a serious bar to development projects. He said: ‘The 40 per cent figure is a nail in the coffin. Developers are talking about it effectively killing developments – it is a land tax.’
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Poor developers. Boo hoo.
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”PLANNERS must drop heritage restrictions and requirements for developers to include ‘discount’ homes”
This is where money, or developers saving money, is more important than our heritage. TAUFU!!
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What is an “affordable home discount”, bearing in mind that the average price of a property, we have recently been told, is now out of reach of the working population, what working couple can afford 10/20% deposit on a house at current prices!!!
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How does one spell ‘blackmail’?
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Perhaps I read this wrong, but Mr. Waddington seems to say that, ” I will only be involved with projects that serve me the biggest return ”
Now, I’m sure Mr. Waddington only has his best interests at heart, but I feel that this tiny island could do better than to listen to this man’s self involvement.
After all, he’s only an architect. Tell himn to Foxtrot Oscar.
Lotty
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the 40% affordable amount of homes just puts up the price of the other 60% so the 40% become a discount on the newly inflated 60% and as such we are back to square one as has happen in the uk under these ill thought through ideas.
When ever governments interfere in the market they get the wrong result these ideas only push up prices and increase regulation and red tape costs more and hence push up prices even more
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What the States are currently proposing for the new Island Plan will result in ‘any’ development over 2 houses/units having to have 40% sold as Social Housing…So what you may ask?
Well if any development MUST have 40% social housing – then the land price needs to be discounted by that amount – maybe more as the value of properties in a development with social housing (like it or not) will not achieve as much as a development which does not have these restrictions…Again so what?
Well this will mean (as stated by Mr Waddington) that people will be less inclined to sell their land for development (as the value they achieve will be far less that current market rates).
If a land owner is less likely to sell, in the long term, this will result in a shortage of new properties but a growing demand. Simple economics dictates that this will result in an increase in house prices – exactly what the island doesnt want at these times…
I think rather than being dismissive of the comments that have been made, people should think about the consequences of such actions by the States..
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Don’t build anything else in Jersey then. Let’s have a few years without cranes and work out where we are in the new world economy.
None of the homes they’re building are within the reach of first time buyers – adverts with the words “ONLY £400,000″. We can’t keep an open door to everyone – help the people here to find a home they can afford, those that can’t come over can’t come over. The way the island’s deteriorating we’ll have buildings and offices that nobody wants becauase the infrastructure’s crashed soon anyway.
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Utter rubbish and twaddle. Polish and Chech, prefab…houses built and assembled in no time wind and watertight with high insulation. 150k put on a truck delvered and assembled in 8 weeks…you guys are taking the P*****
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Did anyone honestly expect them to say anything else? Of course they don’t want to work on ‘discounted’ houses! They want money, money, money.
Hmmmm I can see your point, but I don’t believe it’s the end of the story either. With the current system there has still always apparently been a lack of housing and over-inflated prices, so what is the reasoning for that? Of course there isn’t a lack of housing at all, just a lack of affordable or suitable housing!
Still, given the number of non discounted properties that are failing to sell maybe we should let them go ahead, build their expensive properties and then watch as they also fail to sell…
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“Developers are talking about it effectively killing developments” and here I would have thought that the lack of new developments actually selling would have been the nail in the coffin!
So need for housing is going to continue to grow, of course it will, we insist on letting the population (I mean worldwide) keep growing.
But since we’re sitting on a rock with not a lot of usable land for building, just when do people intend on drawing the line of new developments? There will come a time when there is no more land to build on, does anyone honestly believe that, come that time, there still won’t be people crying out for houses?
Get the population sorted (both in Jersey and worldwide). Get some proper controls in place. It’s pretty much the only answer.
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Leah
I agree, but it does make me laugh that in this day and age with all the technology at our disposal that we need more “workers”.
Computers and automation have taken many a job and yet the states insist on letting more and more people into this island. On top of that most businesses are downsizing or moving to more economically efficient jurisdictions so what happens when jobs become like gold dust in Jersey?
There are only so many new cafes and sandwiche bars that can be opened and manually run….for goodness sake a sandwiche vending machine could do this even!
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How does one spell “conflict of interest” and “wholly partial”?
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Great. No more building then, I hope. Planning is about protecting the island, not pandering to these people.
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we need affordable housing and well below the 400, 0000.
the way that i see it is the 40% should be luxury, and 60% social, as we have more have nots than haves. lets face it if may of us had 400,000 in our hands , we would be gone.
i would .
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#15 David, problem seems to be that the States think people should be able to grow up here but then should just leave for the UK when they get to house-buying/renting age and find they cannot afford it.
And that’s ridiculous really. You should not be forced into working at the high end of the finance industry just to be able to afford a ‘first-time’ buyers’ house, there are plenty of demanding and worthwhile jobs that simply don’t pay these high salaries, but when houses are £450,000+ who else can afford them?
The UK has a good spread of property prices. You will be able to find a house at £60k upwards and that means most couples (at least) can meet the cost of buying or renting. It gets them on the ladder and they can work their way up.
Here there ARE some lower cost houses but they will, without fail, be utterly abysmal, too small for one person to live in, in an area that your health would suffer from, and they will NOT have parking! Unfortunately being at the start of the property ladder doesn’t necessarily mean you can forgo your car anymore than it does for someone at the top of the property ladder.
Look at the houses that are failing to sell on estate agents’ websites. There are exceptions of course but it’s noticeable that ones with parking are snapped up pretty darn quickly and ones without sit there for months. Maybe it’s time the States paid heed to this.
If the average salary is £30k ish then a first-time buyers’ house should be around £100k, in my opinion.
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Money rules. When developer money talks, public and political sector integrity walks! So what else is new?
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Simple Mr Waddington……..go away and dont come back. We dont need your mentality, We need good quality affordable housing.
Take Dandara with you and set up shop in some city environment dont preach to us and expect us to live in your ugly vision of utopia.
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i agree with 18. Please can this island build some affordable housing. im 21, was born locally, and came back to the island after uni to work on the island, in a job which benefits the island. however, with no houses or flats under the 150,000 mark, how in the hell can i buy anywhere. Rent you may say, but at 600 pounds or more a month, its money down the drain. im lucky as i get to live with my parents, but i cant, and frankly dont want to live with them for ever. So why not build some simple, effective and cheap housing. it may not benefit some peoples pockets as well as these plans, but it will benefit the island in the long run
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This is a great debate. The plan can be viewed at the following places…
St. Clement Parish Hall - Monday 11th January
St. Martin Public Hall - Monday 18th January
St. Peter Parish Hall - Tuesday 19th January
St. Brelade Parish Hall - Thursday 21st January
Grouville Parish Hall - Monday 25th January
St. Helier Town Hall - Tuesday 26-28th January
St. Saviour Parish Hall - Monday 15th February
St. Ouen Parish Hall - Tuesday 16th February
Additional dates will be announced in due course.
The exhibition will be available on each day from 12pm-8pm and planning officers will be available to answer questions from the public between 4pm and 8pm.
The draft island plan can be viewed and comments left on line at the following web address: .gov.je/portal/ipr/dp
Hard copies of the plan can be obtained from the Planning Department, States Greffe bookshop and are available for viewing in the Library and all the Parish Halls.
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Come on you politicians,,,answer this one,get on here and explain why we are being ripped off when affordable houses are plausible and available to buy……Wimbo where are you…? get on this forum and talk to us, that’s what you’re there for isn’t it…? Sean Power..never mind the price of Guiness….what about cheapo houses.
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Lotty Raw, Lurkin About and especially Oboe Toe…..ouch, that hurt. In my defence, and the defence of all architects trying to design better places for us to live in, why not have a nose at:
http://www.jtpennington.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/image-of-the-architect.jpg
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Leah Holmes…… I think you’ve misunderstood my main point. I’m not against affordable homes- quite the opposite, in fact. My worry is that because town sites are more expensive normally, adding the burden of 40% affordable homes will mean they just won’t get developed. If I’m wrong and some developments get underway despite this burden, then either the cost of the homes will go up or the quality will go down- or both. It’s simple economics.
My suggestion is that the States encourage affordable homes by helping developers get on with them, rather than making it harder. This needn’t cost tax money. For example allow a little more height or density on town sites to compensate, allow some sensible flexibility where there are listed buildings, give a quicker and more reliable planning service, offer tax breaks for the right type of development and so on. Perhaps the affordable homes could be sold undecorated as “shells” and then the States (maybe linked to Highlands College building apprentices?) could subsidize fitting kitchens etc?
Basically more “carrot” and less “stick” but with the same end product- decent affordable homes.
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@Obe Toe #18
“…Simple Mr Waddington… go away and dont come back. We dont need your mentality, We need good quality affordable housing…
…dont preach to us and expect us to live in your ugly vision of utopia…”
Why so bitter toward Mr Waddington? is it really such a far fetched idea that people should be able to dispose of their assets as they like, or is that really an ‘ugly utopia’?
Along with housing, food is often described as over-priced in Jersey, would you call for retailers to be forced to sell their products(or 40% of them anyway) at below market value?
That kind of State control is what I’d call an ugly utopia.
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Mr Waddington may not be my favourite architect but he is to be commended for common sense. The planners set the strategic vision, with the detailed guidance as required.
The architect then draws up the plans for the proposed building. The day the planners start to tinker with this or that bit of detailing is the day that the Planning Department loses the plot.
Too much bureaucratic melding just adds cost and nobody wants that. Go on Freddie Cohan streamline your Department and protect the public purse.
Mike Waddington you have my total support.
Planning (20). You do not address Mr Waddington’s key point, rather you execute the classic Jersey Civil Service body swerve of responsability.
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mike waddington(23)wonderfull idea, to use highlands apprentices, those in the last year could go on site, supervised by a master plumber , electrian and carpenter, lets not forget the wet trades too.
may be door frames, doors, basic staircases, skirtings and alike , could be made there as well
if they still have a well equipped workshop.
they may well be a slow build, but if it would bring down the cost, bring it on.
these young people who were on this project, may well be taken on by local firms, or work for themselves after.
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@ mike waddington #23
“…give a quicker and more reliable planning service…”
Oh how badly this is needed!
“…Perhaps the affordable homes could be sold undecorated as “shells” and then the States (maybe linked to Highlands College building apprentices?) could subsidize fitting kitchens etc?…”
That’s a great idea, I’d love to hear from the Min. for either Planning/Education, as to why this can’t be seriously looked into(without the need for any consultant’s input)
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#23 You make some good suggestions in that comment, why don’t the States make more of the college students. As per the article I presumed you were speaking for the Association’s members, rather than (necessarily) from a personal point of view.
The housing issue doesn’t just lie with the architects, although I’m sure it all adds up. There needs to be changes in many areas such that at the very least an ‘average’ young-ish couple, both in permanent full-time ‘average’ jobs can afford to buy a basic house.
I’m not saying everyone should be able to afford a home, but if a couple of average earners cannot even raise a mortgage between them to buy a house being advertised as a ‘great first home’ then, something is very wrong.
Such a couple could indeed have lots of expertise in a field that the island is crying out for. Not all jobs offer their reward in money. That’s a fact that is manageable in the UK, but over here it causes people to have to leave.
How many people, with skills and knowledge that the island could really use, are not returning after university because they’ll never be able to afford a house? Worse still, how many are leaving and letting another country benefit from their expertise?
At some point my partner and I will probably join them, taking our knowledge (of subjects the island is crying out for) back to Scotland in favour of a sensibly-sized 3-bed house with garden and parking.
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Leah Holmes (No. 28)…. I suspect you are not alone in Jersey in aspiring to a 3-bed house with garden and parking?
This is the other real concern that I have with the Island Plan as drafted- basically the majority of new homes will be concentrated in St Helier. This is great for the town and possible regeneration, but beyond townhouses, will only create apartments and not the rural homes that a lot of families aspire to. The current Island Plan view is that Jersey’s younger generations and families will need to adapt to European-style apartment living as their only (or main) alternative to a rural home.
Whilst nobody wants to see endless fields rezoned for housing, or Guernsey’s ribbon development, I think the Island Plan needs to look harder at marginal rural areas where the sort of houses you’re talking about can be built. The current thinking, via the Imagine Jersey Consultation in 2008, is to avoid building outside of urban/town areas at all costs.
I think that a lot of young families out there haven’t picked up on this point, or that the final Island Plan will be the template for future homes for the next 10 years? Hence the importance of people commenting on the Draft Island Plan, rather than ending up feeling they may have to leave the Island and live abroad in order to find a family home, taking their skills with them.
Yes, comments are personal and not AJA collective views.
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if the island plan , is saying that young jersey born, will live in apartments and thats all.
it needs looking at again.
i feel we are populated enough.
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“… nobody wants to see endless fields rezoned for housing”
How can we be so sure that it is nobody, Mike?
Whilst no NIMBYs or horseys want fields built on to spoil their lifestyles,
there must be a growing number of very desperate potential buyers who see many fields around the “rural” parishes which are not being used seriously or intensively for agriculture.
Such fields could support low rise, low density, unpretentious development providing adequate parking (say four or five cars, including visitors or room for a boat trailer and a camper)and garden facilities for those who regard such as more important than the size of the house. If people have quality of life and some space of their own they are far less likely to be troublesome citizens.
There was plenty of this type of development in the 1950s. I lived in one of a row of about seven built in a field slightly disfigured by the Germans but not beyond cultivation if anyone could have been bothered. There was no feeling of being cramped and enough “patch” to grow fruit and vegetables as well as a garden for relaxation in privacy.
By all means keep the coast and the valleys relatively unspoilt (if it’s not too late) but why make the town and suburbs so cramped when in reality there is plenty of space elsewhere.
One thing is certain, if the desire to live in Jersey was not so frequently based on employment arising from quirks in the law,or a rabid dislike of even a fraction of taxation going towards social improvements, only people who wanted to live in the island because of its natural charm or for family reasons would be resident and there would be lower population and less demand for building plots.
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If you build all over the countryside then it becomes a town!
Much of the suburbs of St Helier were fields in the not too distant past.
I support the Island Plan in this respect.
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@ mike waddington #23
“…allow a little more height or density on town sites …”
Might be a dumb question, but how do you measure density: Is it by the area of a plot, or by the floor are of a property?
I’ve got no problem building up to increase the density by plot, so long as room sizes and accomodation are more generous than some of the tiny rooms I’ve seen in recent developments; but I’d hate to see any more density created by reducing dwelling sizes.
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Personally, all my husband and I would like is a 3 bed house with parking and a garden for children to run around in when we have them. But at the moment, the house prices are just too high to achieve that dream.
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