More qualify to buy
Tuesday 19th January 2010, 2:58PM GMT.
More people will be able to buy property
ESSENTIALLY employed Islanders – including teachers, nurses and high-fliers in the finance industry – are to be given the right to buy or rent any property, it was announced today.
In a change to the existing housing laws, the J-category (essential) and A-to-H housing (locally qualified) groups are to be scrapped and replaced with a single qualified group. As a result, J-category Islanders will now be able to buy or rent all flats and houses, including new and flying freehold properties.
Until today, essential employees were excluded from buying or renting around 20 per cent of homes in Jersey. Until 14 months ago, J-category employees were able to buy only homes that were more than two years old or were worth more than £250,000. At that time, however, the law was amended to allow developers to sell 50 per cent of new houses to the essentially employed.
The changes will not affect the qualification period (currently ten years for J-categories and 11 years for others) and essentially employed Islanders will be able to own only the house they live in. The changes will not mean that J-cats are eligible to social rented housing or first-time buyer homes.
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Call me thick and hit me across the head with a wet haddock ! but just how does this make lower cost housing more affordable or even as affordable as before?
You allow exJ cats that includes relatively lowly paid teachers and nurses (for example a £40k income gives £200K mortgage) to compete with ex,a-h cats on all properties … urgh!.. that means more people after the same lower cost properties which means more demand which means higher prices.
No wonder my mates have all left their Puffin holes!
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Congratulations to the states wanting ‘rich’ people on the Island. Basically means the people who are born here that struggle to get a mortgage will now find it even more difficult as housing prices will go through the roof!!!!
Look after your own before others!!!!
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Sucking up to the developers, so they can now sell the flats that no one wanted. TAUFU!!
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The above comments are correct, this will only inflate the price of houses, it will also mean that those that bought J cat properties at a premium have lost money in one fell swoop.
My main area of convern is over the definition of esssentially employed, I don’t think anyone would disagree that this should apply to teachers/doctors/nurses etc but finance workers? I work in finance and have seen countless UK staff brought over to fill vacancies that supposedly cannot be filled locally. They are then housed in free accommodation for an unlimited period of time as J Cats were changed to be ongoing and not 5 year as before.
Many of the posts were advertised after a sucessful UK applicant had got the job and had even been allocated housing by the bank. How then could they possibly determine if a local candidate was appropriate? it is these people that I propose are not actually “essentially employed” and as they are now effectively locals enjoying the same rights as those born here I would like to see the states re assess how essential they really are with employers providing comprehensive and exhaustive proof that a local cannot do their job.
I would also like to see a stringent tighening up of those allowed into the island under the essentially employed scheme to avoid abuse.
There will be a lot of landlords who have previously rented out property at a premium getting phone calls from tenants wanting to re negotiate the terms of their leases or otherwise they will move onto local accommodation.
Essentially this will benefit the rich and the finance industry and penalise the locals with prices spiraling ever higher.
A double edged sword methinks with the sharp side favouring the rich!
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could be this be the final nail in the coffin for jersey born, who wish to remain here?
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Have the States bothered to read the social housing report they commissioned- doh!!!
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Great news!
Now mum and dad can finally come over as we will be finally able to get a larger “gaff”. I’ve spent years living in a small 3 bed semi with the family, my parents are already suffereing at the mercy of the UK NHS hopefully things will change for the better now this rule has been relaxed. Thank you States.
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3. If local people were too proud to buy ‘the flats that no one wanted’. Then it is the good fortune of the J-Cats to seize the opportunity.
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Excellent, hopefully this will kick-start the sluggish housing market.
I predict the whole quallies system will be scrapped in the next few years
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As lowering the qualification time would, this move will ensure property prices are kept artificially high in Jersey. More a greedy move by our helpful,caring useless government.
We need drastic change, not this.
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“…and high-fliers in the finance industry”
Just in case anyone still needs confirmation that money talks in Jersey.
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Leave the island and buy a 3 bedroom home in the UK Mainland for a third (easily) of the price here.
That is the only real “win” for this topic.
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Agree with practically all of the above
#11 I didn’t expect to read “high-fliers in the finance industry” after actual essential workers like teachers and nurses either. Made me laugh initially but it isn’t really all that funny.
#5 Yes! States don’t seem to care either.
“Essential” can be very subjective. What about small businesses that have a real need, is it as easy for them to bring someone in?
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This reeks of corruption…deals done to finance all these horrible flats that the greed driven developers have built that are not selling as quick as they wanted..so instead of letting them bite the bullet and sell at lower more reasonable prices,the poor old public get it in the neck again….subsidised housing,rent rebate all to fund,developers,money lenders ,and the hideously addicted worshippers of Mamon changing the goalposts to suit the money grabbers.what a total let down
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@ Rozel Aubin #11
“…Just in case anyone still needs confirmation that money talks in Jersey.”
And where doesn’t ‘money talk’? Don’t forget, you’re quoting a description given by a newspaper reporter, not the description given by law.
Do you not consider the finance industy essential to Jersey’s ongoing economic and social success?
@ truthseeker #14(but true of any of his post really)
“This reeks of corruption…”
Really? you suspect corruption… dare I ask on what basis, or proof? or is it just that you smell corruption everywhere regardless?
Making life easier for nurses, teachers, policemen, firefighters and doctors etc. etc. is greedy? I think not.
@ Leah Holmes #13
“…What about small businesses that have a real need, is it as easy for them to bring someone in?…”
Yes. They apply for a J-cat licence in the same way.
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A puppet goverment. This just proves that big buisness runs the island, not the politians
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thats great but do you think that you could put some relatively humane laws in place for those that cant afford to buy and that rent privately? how much stamp duty and tax accrued for all this property so far? and how much income for greedy irresponsible landlords
duty of care yet again
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The J cats who will benefit from this will be people like nurses and junior teachers. ‘High fliers’ in the finance industry can already afford the old J cat limit of 250k (which was approx half the price of an average 3 bed house.
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Yah Hoo. I can now afford to buy what exactly…….Yep still nothing. So here’s on J that won’t be forcing the price of your property up. Doh!
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Like NuLabour opening the floodgates to the UK in 1997, “did anyone ask us?” No of course not. Multigenerational mortgages for anyone not fortunate enough not to inherit loads or be a partner in a substantial lawyers or trust firm.
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I find is quite sad that “essential” employees can qualify after 10 years, but anyone else is 11 years. A whole one years difference for the privilege of being essential…..sort it out States !
I agree, there are plenty of finance employees who are but shouldn’t be regarded as essential. As I have mentioned before, offshore banking is different to onshore banking largely due to having different laws and regulations so why would an onshore employee be more essential than a local, more knowledgeable (for this jurisdiction) offshore employee??
Perhaps the States should consider outlawing the biggest scam in the finance industry which is the free accommodation (or miniscule rents) they offer their staff and yet still pay them local wages. This is completely unfair for locally employed finance workers who do the same jobs but have to pay extortionate rents.
I know of many employees who lived in bank accommodation, usually hotels where their restaurant standard meals were included. They put all the money they saved from rents towards mortgages for housing back in their home town and then rented that property out too…..a great money spinner.
Come to Jersey where you can fleece the locals and rub their noses in it!
Disgraceful.
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J Lamborrari
@ Rozel Aubin #11
“Do you not consider the finance industy essential to Jersey’s ongoing economic and social success?”
No, I blinking well don’t. ‘Scuse my French. Nor do considerable numbers of Islanders.
It wasn’t essential before and it may not even exist in the future. It is already causing division socially and economically and creating a thoroughly self serving and greedy populace.
I hope that “ongoing … success” doesn’t really mean “getting out of control”.
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@ Rozel Aubin # 22
“…No, I blinking well don’t…”
Well right now there’s no realistic alternative, and I and many other islanders live in the real world, where these jobs are essential.
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#21 “the biggest scam in the finance industry which is the free accommodation (or miniscule rents) they offer their staff and yet still pay them local wages. This is completely unfair for locally employed finance workers who do the same jobs but have to pay extortionate rents.” Have you got any insight as to why they do this?
#22 It’s probably a positive feedback loop now and will continue to chase away locals. Whether or not you like it surely depends on whether you want money or quality of life, unfortunately some cannot see the difference between the two.
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@19. choose another alias!
Have to agree with much of the above, just as I thought all those flat builders would have to drop prices and we might see some reality return to the market.. this happens.
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Islanders would do well to remember that many of their children have aspirations to live in the UK. In the UK there are no discriminating laws on housing. In the UK you can buy and live in any house you please if the owner is willing to sell.
So what if the UK adopted some of the housing laws of Jersey? I wonder how Islanders would feel if their loved ones experienced such discrimination? Not being able to buy a house of their own for at least 10years, being forced to live in sub-standard housing (owned by wealthy UK landlords).
Dry your eyes Islanders, things aint so bad for you.
#22. Agreed. Most native Islanders enjoy a relatively high standard of living. Make no mistake, this is largely contingent on the continued success of the Jersey Finance industry.
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#26 I tried pointing out that one and got bullied for it so beware. I do think the UK needs to consider bringing in such legislation around house-buying, it isn’t fair that anyone can just come in and buy. It would affect many Jersey people greatly, especially as their only alternative may be staying somewhere (Jersey) they cannot afford to live. I wouldn’t do the 5-year job restriction but housing definitely as people in the islands of the UK are being forced off of their islands by rich incomers and it’s especially galling when it’s for second-homes! Of course everywhere could just bring in a VISA system and it could be applied between Jersey and the UK.
The only issue I have with the 10-year housing restriction is really that no-one is doing anything about greedy landlords. You cannot force people to rent without keeping a firm grip on the landlords.
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@ Esperance #26
“…So what if the UK adopted some of the housing laws of Jersey?…”
The UK can adopt any law it sees fit to govern it’s country, and I don’t think any Jersey person should complain(so law as the law was fair and just; just as those coming to Jersey shouldn’t complain that Jersey has perfectly reasonable laws in place that may differ to another countries.
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The system is unfair as simple as that. One group of people being treated differently to another. END OF.
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About time. Jersey people can buy properties here in the UK no problem. Why not the other way round?
Oh, and to the Jersey whingers. Try paying attention at school, getting into a good university, getting a good degree. Its kind of usual.
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@ fred #29
“…The system is unfair as simple as that…”
Do you also think that the systems in place in the US, Australia, New Zealnad etc. etc. are unfair?
Every country has a right to control immigration. ‘END OF’
@ Ben #30
“…Why not the other way round?…”
Because Jersey is a different country. In the UK I can drive at 70mph, but not in Jersey; should I bleat that this is unfair? what about the unfair treatment of Germans in the UK who are limited to 70mph?!
“…Oh, and to the Jersey whingers. Try paying attention at school, getting into a good university, getting a good degree. Its kind of usual.”
Not sure why you mention it, but I think you’ll find that Jersey’s exam results are on average higher than the UKs
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24 Leah
You’d have to ask the powers that be in the banks or states ….. whoever allows and encourages this.
Maybe it could be a away of shifting the onshore workforce to save redundancy payouts???
I know for a fact that a lot of the staff that have been re-located to Jersey are not better than the local market and in a lot of cases the ones I have seen were actually much, much worse. Some even made national headlines for throwing parties on bank premises !!
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30 Ben
Having a degree isn’t always worthwhile. In finance, for instance, they have their own professional qualifications. So in the real world where does a degree in something like art or literature get you hey
Besides why earn one when you can buy them off the internet !! :-0
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“The UK can adopt any law it sees fit to govern it’s country” Not since it ‘chose’ to become part of the EU. And I say ‘chose’ because really it didn’t have much option, it certainly wasn’t what the citizens wanted. I guess we’re seeing that the right for anyone to live anywhere, and the mixing together of all sorts of nationalities, simply doesn’t work as well as some thought it might. Human nature prevails.
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Interesting thread. This development, enabling J cat holders to buy A-H properties will have very little practical difference. The previous restriction was that you had to purchase a property for £250,000 or more or it was 2 years old and had been given the designation.
Being frank, most J Cat employees won’t be buying properties for under £250,000 because you might be able to buy a garage for that price in Jersey.
It’s clearly an attempt to stimulate flat purchases and, in my view, a thinly veiled attempt to show that all of thos badly built flats by a certain Developer were in fact required after all -and are jolly good value for money
As for all of the discussion regarding the finance industry going on here; different subject. However, as one working within the industry, and the holder of a J, I would suggest that Jersey should be proud of the industry….but I would say that wouldn’t I. Too many locals with chips on shoulders. I wait for the hearty rebukes!
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@ Leah Holmes #34
“…And I say ‘chose’ because really it didn’t have much option…”
Odd the the government of Jersey, that can do no right it seems, did choose to remain out of the EU; there’s always an option.
“…I guess we’re seeing that the right for anyone to live anywhere, and the mixing together of all sorts of nationalities, simply doesn’t work…”
I’m confused, you’re now saying that giving the right for anyone to move anywhere doesn’t work, as proven by your example of the bad decisions made by the UK government… but earlier you argued that Jersey’s ‘bad’ government should take their lead, as their policies were good??
Please clarify; is there a policy you advocate in general, or do you only want the policy adopted that personal benefits you at any one time?
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#36 You really do like to put words into people’s mouths. I have never commented on Jersey’s relationship with the EU except to say that the UK sc**wed them over on that front (yes, I’ve said that on this very site). I commented on the UK’s relationship and that it prevents them setting similar house-buyng regulations to Jersey. The UK may well have made the same decision as Jersey if it could have (certainly the people did), but it’s large enough for its participation to be significant to the other member states so it didn’t get much of a say, Jersey did, possibly because it is so much smaller.
I’ve never argued against the house-buying regulations in Jersey, I have consistently argued against the 5-year residency work regulations, and no, NOT just because it affects me. As it is I have asked about and there are ways around it. The housing one affects me also, but I think it’s fair, I consider the 5-year residency one to be detrimental to Jersey, at least in the current climate. Were things to change and Jersey to become a place where loads of UK residents aspire to live then possibly, but currently it’s the other way around.
And I have never argued that Jersey should copy the UK period, I have only highlighted specific cases where I think they should. I have also suggested cases where the UK could benefit from copying Jersey (10-year house-buying) rule for starters.
You seem to have this bizarre idea that a compliment to one Government is automatically a criticism of the other and vice versa… that’s just absurd. A compliment to one person/place is not automatically a criticism of another, only overly sensitive people think that.
Unlike the ‘I’m alright Jack’ crowd I only argue against what I consider to be wrong or unfair, I don’t care whether it affects me personally or not. In fact the 5-year residency work rule is actually the first time I’ve argued against something that is seriously affecting me personally!
Try and twist that if you want but I have all my posts here and my opinions on Jersey things haven’t changed.
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#35 That’s what a number of locals I know were thinking about the unsold flats. They don’t think that J-Cats should be shoved in there either. Still I guess they need to be sold somehow since there’s a load more going to be built.
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a question that i have to ask here , is where will be the , under £250, 000 homes , for local families, 1st time buyers.
and why the education standard today fails to supply, workers of the required standard, to limit the need to import labour? why not tell tommorrows workers that , this is what is needed of you,without it you are sunk.
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@ Leah Holmes #37
“…#36 You really do like to put words into people’s mouths. I have never commented on Jersey’s relationship with the EU…”
And I never said you had, so don’t make out I’m putting words in your mouth.
You argue that Jersey’s immigration/housing/working policies are unfair, but it seems that you only feel this way because the law in the UK has not kept pace. You don’t think the US policies are unfair, maybe you should turn your argument toward the UK, and require them to legislate tut for tat; rather than by any kind of rational thinking.
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You keep believing that if you want to.
We’ll have to agree to disagree won’t we, it’s okay that I don’t agree with you, and if you want to think that’s for whatever reason you go right ahead it’s hardly going to bother me.
VISA systems are fair… you apply for a VISA. You get to state your case, and partners are taken into account. Even the situation between the UK and other European countries is reasonably fair, even if immigration is rather one-sided, partners are welcome. The situation between the UK, well you can say a more equal agreement would be ‘tit for tat’ if you want, but the UK has seen what problems immigration of 100,000 from one place can cause, and at the moment there is no protection against 100,000 people moving there from Jersey is there?
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The whole J cat thing stinks – if you work in finance you know for a fact that many of those brought over are not essential – and often employed at the expense of highly skilled local workers (be that local, been here for tem years etc). There are brought here because the banks on the island are run directly by the UK or Ireland, Spain etc. They are in no way independant, its a sham, the regulators are asleep, exec boards are puppets. The banks aren’t paying bonus’s but making heaps and heaps of cash, laying off staff to reduce costs – its just all going back to finance the misstakes the holding company’s have made. They take much more than they are putting in – wake up States – Finance workers aren’t earning, tax receipts are down and we don’t believe of “essential”. Oh and they fiddle the system, local applies for job its 60K, expat applies for same job its 60K plus free house, travel, expenses etc rent out UK house and its 20K more in your pocket = sronger, more experienced candidates.
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#37. Why is it that you are the only person on this forum i would believe if they stated, “I have all my posts here”, that i am certain you DO in fact have all of your previous posts there……. WHOA, time to get some fresh air!!!
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Baz 43
exctly what I said in post 21 mate.
This needs to be sorted out because it is a scandal !
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#44 Thanks for the concern Baz. I’m pretty sure I don’t have them all but certainly most cause I don’t type them on here but in Word (cut and paste). Just a habit from the days of dodgy internet connections.
Don’t worry I get plenty of fresh air, I’m a fast reader and faster typer.
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J cats are required by law to train a local person to take over when the J cat licence expires. I have never, ever, seen this happen. I have worked alongside many J category personnel in my time. The system is very much abused.
It is clear that the housing regulations are slowly being whittled away. As a form of immigration control, the efficacy and fairness of the rules has always been questionable.
The problem now is that the strict immigration control which should be replacing the rapidly diminishing housing control is not being put into place. Politicians do not seem to have the courage to implement an immigration policy which, in a small place like Jersey [or even a large one like Australia, which is particularly strict], is essential.
Who suffers in all of this? The local populace which for years has been discriminated against in the workplace. Soon more Jersey born people will be ousted from their island. No doubt there are those on this forum who will celebrate that fact and who will point to the freedom of entry into the UK. That of course, is not comparable and would be a misconceived and somewhat bigoted viewpoint. We anticipate that this post will bring forth such a response from such people who will probably be recent incomers.
If any politicians are reading this, we would urge that a strict immigration policy be implemented before the housing laws are completely abolished by stealth.
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Yes, I think they are all kept in large files.
43 and 44. Quite right. The local people are routinely discriminated against. It needs to be stamped out but how do you get rid of this ingrained rot which must arise from vested interests?
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oops
My post 44 was meant to be aimed at post 42 non-essential (not Baz – sorry Leah)
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One commentator suggests that more Jersey people want to live in the UK than vice versa.
In my experience, for what that it is worth, the above statement is quite untrue. There are very many people who wish to come here and do in fact do so. In very many cases, these people fill positions which should be given to locals. The J category system is a joke and I believe that th practices of the Regulation of Undertakings Department (which is clearly party to all of this) should be closely examined.
Be that as it may, Jersey is a small place (unlike the UK) and should have an immigration policy.
Just because the UK has, it might convincingly be observed, made a mess of its immigration control does not justify any argument that Jersey should do the same.
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#49 I was excluding J-Cats, they are (supposedly) needed after all. I can see that it was probably the reverse even till very recently but I still doubt it now. Makes absolutely no sense for your average UK citizen to come here as an ‘economic migrant, Jersey has fewer opportunities and the work restriction would likely mean a steep pay cut with a higher cost of living. As for Jersey-born people leaving, I’m starting to lose track of how many have left in the last year, most to the UK. The other day I learned of another 2 that have given up and are looking for work in the UK. Finance workers will be more aware of Jersey no doubt but the average UK bod doesn’t give Jersey a thought.
#48 No worries, it was obvious anyway. I agree with you and #43 and 46
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@ Leah Holmes #41
“…You keep believing that if you want to…”
Well that’s vague??
“…VISA systems are fair… you apply for a VISA. You get to state your case, and partners are taken into account…”
But you’re claiming that the system is unfair because it doesn’t allow the same freedom to people, like you, from the UK coming into Jersey, as someone from Jersey going to the UK. So you wouldn’t consider a visa system introduced in Jersey to be fair, unless the UK introduced an equal system. So that you admit that the US system is fair, it doesn’t seem to be because of the system per se, but because of the equality between the two nations systems.
“…at the moment there is no protection against 100,000 people moving there from Jersey is there?…”
No there isn’t, but that’s the UKs choice, and I respect that, just as I would if they chose to differ their system. Why is it unfair for one country to protect it’s interests, just because another can’t be bothered to?
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To Sylvia Trant (comment 49)And I can say the opposite!In my experience more people are leaving Jersey than the other way around-I guess it’s one of those things which is unprovable either way!I am one of a family of 4 “children”,3 of us have left Jersey (the 4th also did but returned for personal reasons)There is little chance of any of us returning as we have all a good life elsewhere.
Back to the article itself-we all know how many unsold flats are sitting about and the change in law is probably only an attempt to help get them sold.The fact is nobody wants them anyway as they are not big enough to put any furniture in.
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dont understand you housing laws. What is a “J-cat”
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Julie, I am heartened to read what you say. Although I believe that it is the case that more UK people want to come to Jersey than the other way round, I very much hope that I am proved incorrect!
Perhaps what you say is true. Oh fingers crossed! Perhaps now also the Jersey born might have some prospect of a reasonable living in their own island. Thank you for the ray of hope that your message, and that of another persistent commentator, brings.
As for the flats, they should not have been built of course and no doubt the folly of that will be clear in years to come. The inevitable eventual demolition of many of these unsightly and inappropriate properties will doubtless also be seen as the conclusion of a most unsavoury political and economic erstwhile era. We are currently living through such times. They will be interesting in retrospect. Hope fully they will end in time for us to recount the madness to our Jersey born children or grandchildren.
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I must have missed the part of our constitution that decrees that our society should provide subsidised housing for local residents. Perhaps somebody could point it out for me so I can give up my job, get rid of my mortgage payments, reduce my taxes and start enjoying the fruits of somebody else’s labours.
Also, damn those greedy developers and landlords who risk their own capital in buying, renovating and renting out properties. Why should they get to fill their properties with people like finance workers who are willing to pay the market-dictated rate of rent, when they could provide much cheaper accommodation and lose money into the bargain. That would stop their games, and should ensure that the only providers of housing stock in this island are the States of Jersey. (who are financed by the taxes levied on finance workers, landlords, developers oh, hold on ….)
Socialism works until you run out of somebody else’s money.
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I don’t think anyone here has suggested that the states should subsidise local housing. Such housing is of course available if you like to live in States properties, which are being sold off as we speak!
What is objectionable is the developers creating montrosities. If only they would confine themselves to buying, renovating and renting out properties. Still, we can all live in hope. No doubt the developers will move becak out of jersey when it suits them. let’s not forget that they don’t do what they do for the good of their collective health!
As for socialism, yes, it does depend on tax monies but where a particular industry has distorted the prices of everything and put housing out of the reach of the indigenous population then the benefits of the same are, taken in the round, highly doubtful. It all becomes a bit circular really.
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I am amazed that there is so dramatic a change to the Regulation of Housing Law, without any discussion or vote by the members of the States.
Then again, there is such an overhang of unsold flats, many from a well known developer, that it is probably not so surprising.
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err, I’m an ‘indigenous’ member of the population, and it certainly hasn’t put housing out of my reach.(Or the reach of many of the indigenous population), unless of course it is only non-locals that have bought houses over the years. I think you are referring to a percentage of the indigenous population.
I also think a great many of the comments on this subject are actually advocating providing subsidised housing, but perhaps under the heading ‘affordable’ housing. If the States are selling houses to people below the market value, or insisting that developers provide a percentage of houses at below market rates as a percentage of any new developments (For which the prices on the other properties within the developments are adjusted accordingly, fueling house price inflation even further) then that is subsidised housing.
I think the headline on which we were commenting was ‘more qualify to buy’ and it’s impact upon local housing provision, not ‘devlopers creating monstrosities’, but I do agree that certain developers will leave Jersey eventually, nursing losses on buildings which they either cannot sell or rent. However that is the risk they have accepted, for which they have been rewarded in the past. In that instance, it will be they who have lost out, not the ‘indigenous population’.
However, if you exclude private capital (Which wants to profit) from providing housing stock, you end up with only the State fulfilling this role, which in turn leads to taxpayers coughing up more for those who can’t afford to pay market rates. That, despite adding another layer, is I’m afraid, subsidised housing.
If the finance industry has contributed to making the majority of people in this island, either directly or indirectly, in addition to materially wealthy, better educated, healthier, more well travelled, safer and, as demonstrated through the growth in the population, appreciative of the fact that we are better off here than most places around the world, what alternative would you suggest ? Making everyone happier by being more equally poor ?
Some people need to think their criticisms through a little more, and they might realise that failing developers, exiting J-Cat’s and a departing finance industry (and the consequent plunge in tax receipts) , together with escalating costs to the population of greater State involvement in the housing market, might not be the nirvana they are hoping for.
How does less money available for healthcare, education, pensions, income support, police or any other myriad services which the current taxpaying population pay for grab your ‘indigenous’ population ?
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Errr, I think someone needs to think through what he is saying a little more. If you are a local person who is fortunate enough to own a property then I would rerad myself as lucky rather than promulgate half baked theories. Housing, and the ability to occupy housing, does not exist in a vacuum. The matter must necessarily include contruction [whether or not it is ""devlopers"" creating monstrosities] and the employment prospects and economic opportunities which are available to local people.
I don’t believe that anyone on this post has made comments regarding subsidised housing and to suggest otherwise sounds like mischief making. To repeat, err if you own your own property, regard yourself as fortunate and please don’t look down your nose at those who might live in social housing because they are not so financially fortunate as some of us.
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I know James. I’m all right jack, eh?
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#51 In degrees of fairness, it’s tit-for-tat, VISA, then Jersey work restriction. Others might not consider a VISA system fair, I could live with it. It’s a system that understands the wellbeing of citizens is not just dependent on money but also on relationships. Still a restriction applied equally on both sides has to be fair, but the UK cannot do to Jersey what Jersey does to them.
In some cases the work restriction is doing the opposite of what it was presumably designed to do, it is chasing away the local. When that local’s position can only be filled by an immigrant then the restriction really has made a fool of itself. Maybe it’s time to consider retaining homegrown talent as a priority and weigh up both issues together? Make keeping people in as important as keeping people out?
I don’t take issue with the housing regulation (that’s not to say it couldn’t be replaced by something better), I’ve already stated that clearly. From what I can see it does what it says on the tin.
“but that’s the UKs choice, and I respect that, just as I would if they chose to differ their system” You may be one of the few that can genuinely say that. Clearly there are those who genuinely fear the day the States have THAT much power and their children are stuck in an even more expensive Jersey with little choice of jobs (if any jobs) and no chance of ever being able to afford a home. The States want rich people.
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Quote from above:
“I also think a great many of the comments on this subject are actually advocating providing subsidised housing”
No, errr, I don’t think so. It goes on to make further points, none of which is supported by, er, evidence. The news article is about, er, housing categories. It seems that, at a stroke, the housing law has been amended in a fundamental way and with the possibility of prejudicing local prospects. But who knows what will, er happen over the next few, er, years?
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Well said Leah. What about a Jersey berlin wall? That’d sort it out. With advances in engineering, it could be built on sand. Just like the “old chestnut” well worn idea of yours of the large UK (which seems to let everyone in as it ) imposing entry restrictions on a paltry 100,000 population, most of whom wouldn’t want to go there anyway!
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Our governments are constantly trying to stimulate the housing market as though it’s a big problem when house prices aren’t rising.
When are they going to wake up! Rising house prices are only good for those already on the property ladder and they’re making the least well off in our society even worse off!
Rising house prices are the reason why the governments have to provide and maintain so much social housing and subsidise so many high rents.
The 103% rise in house prices over the last 10 years is the reason why a person on an average wage no longer earns enough to get a mortgage an average priced house. That is literally an impossibility now.
So what’s going to happen if house prices rise another 100% in the next 10 years or 200% in 20 years or 400% in 40 years and wages do not rise at the same rate? How many people on average wage will be unable to house themselves then without assistance? Why can’t the governments see that rising house prices are a bad thing? Letting house prices continue to rise is complete folly in the long term unless you’re already a home owner.
Or is it that it’s those who are already on the housing ladder who don’t see what’s going to happen or appreciate the scale of the problem that’s coming?
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You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to understand that if house prices continue to rise faster than wages, more and more people will be unable to buy a house or afford private sector rents without help from the States.
It seems that many of the homeowners who posted on this forum either don’t understand that or don’t care much about it!
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#63 Guess you can’t see the difference between forcing people to stay and simply valuing the people you have
I don’t know how you miss that people are leaving Jersey because of how it is run. And I’m talking about Jersey-born people, of the 100,000 that may not be very many. Those that have come here as economic migrants (whether J-Cat or other) won’t leave, but there are certainly Jersey-born people leaving. If you don’t think locals being forced to leave their island is something to be concerned about then I question your morals.
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You can’t have lived in the UK if you think it’s big! A recent influx of 100,000 migrants caused a heck of a lot of problems both social and financial. The UK’s been building on flood plains for years just to meet housing need, is that not enough to tell you it’s full? Last thing it needs is more incomers, whether from Jersey or elsewhere.
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Ah, I think Leah is twisting someone’s words again when she says:
“If you don’t think locals being forced to leave their island is something to be concerned about then I question your morals.”. The fact is, we are concerned and where has it been written that we are not?
Then again, LH is someone who, having recently arrived in the island, has gone on record as campaigning for a restriction on Jersey people entering the UK. How to get on with a given community: move there and then try to prejudice their rights! Nice one Leah
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Gabriel Grub; Actually when people are unable to get on the bottom rung of the housing ladder the whole lot comes tumbling down. People can’t move up the ladder if there aren’t the people entering the market at the bottom end.
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The UK might not need incomers but it has no choice due to the arrangements which are in place regarding the former commonwealth and the crown dependencies. Sorry to tell you that.
Jersey, on the other hand, does have a choice. It is also small, whereas the UK is large. We desperately need a robust immigration policy. As for the UK, it seems that it has rather made its bed. It is funny how someone asserts that there are not many Jersey people. I recall that the same commentator made a similar remark on another thread. It is an offensive viewpoint, particularly from a recent arrival. One feels that perhaps someone does not reallty know what she is talking about!
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I wonder where LH at *67 and 68 gets all her information from? Where is the evidence? We have to admire the bald assertions, even if they do seem to change tack from time to time. Whether the UK is big or small must be relative. To an islander [and indeed Ms H from what she says about coming from a small place] it seems quite substantial, even when I have lived there and in european country for years. To an Australian, on the other hand [who come from a very large and underpopulated country with strict immigrant control] it must semble quite small. I feel that it might be necessary to go to there and say the Australians how to run their country or to lobby for restriction on their travelling rights. I am sure that I would quickly be granted a residential statuz. Either that or be a quick one way trip home. I wonder which one it would be?
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martin @ 69 – you are right – but I don’t see how that’s relevant to my opinion @ 64 that house prices shouldn’t be allowed to continue to rise at 100% every 10 years. If house prices continue to rise so much faster than earnings the social housing/rent problems will get worse and worse forever more!
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No one said anything about the lower end of the market, did they? The point surely is that jersey people should have affordable houses. Houses, not shoeboxes masquerading as houses. It is a most peculiar state of affairs when immigrants tend to be okay (particularly the so-called essential employees who are often anything but) while many jersey born people struggle. It is most disheartening to hear some local people on this site who own their homes saying in effect that they are alright thank you. The reality for very many others is far removed from that and it can only get worse with this stealthy and deceitful amendment to the housing laws.
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Yet again another kick in the teeth for the people who are not considered to be essential to the evolution and success of the Island. Quite disturbing reading the xenophobic remarks below.
I have chosen to live here and I love Jersey but try having a family and renting non-qualified property. I work in the finance Industry but obviously not a highflier as I can barely afford to rent a place big enough for my family. There is absolutely no reason why there should be housing categories for rental purposes. The States need to listen to the people and address these issues!!
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Time to now get rid of the first time buyer property law so that those people can move up the ladder into the next price bracket of property and move on.At the moment housing law is a joke.
Anyone listening ????? I doubt it.
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