Heavyweight problems
Saturday 23rd January 2010, 3:00PM GMT.
Station officer paramedic Richard D’Ulivo-Rogers
ISLANDERS are becoming so overweight that the Health Department may be forced to buy bigger ambulances, stronger lifting gear and reinforced trolleys.
Some people are now so large that the Ambulance Service has to send out two crews just to lift some people. In some cases, paramedics have also had to call on firefighters to provide extra manpower and specialist lifting gear.
Station officer paramedic Richard D’Ulivo-Rogers said: ‘Although we don’t have statistics, from the feedback we have received from the crews it is clear that the number of obese people, known as bariatric patients, has become more of a problem over the years.
‘It is now necessary to look at making changes to the way we operate, such as adapting equipment and resources. We have looked at the type of carrying chairs we use as these generally can’t support bariatric patients.’
He added: ‘It is always the primary objective of the Ambulance Service to have patient care and management at the top of our agenda. Any changes we make will be for the benefit of the public.’
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I think the answer still lies in education from primary school up!
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Why don’t they just fit the existing ambulances with some sort of snowplough like scoop, then they can just roll the fat people to hospital.
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You’re telling me. Lay off the pies and remember daily exercise is not walking to the fridge.
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I think the answer is to stop eating cakes and pies!
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While I wholeheartedly agree with Geraldine’s apposite comment above, the Jersey community also needs to take immediate action.
No, of course the Minister of Health could not decree the closure of the island’s fast food joints, and if the sale of chips, crisps, sweets and other junk-type foods.
But – and this is a big butt – perhaps draconian sanctions against overweight people, such as charging them for two seats whenever they travel, or medical practitioners insisting that their over-obese patients lose a mutually agreed weight before surgery, could work.
I know of what I speak: my height is 180 cm and I currently weigh 116 kg. I am scheduled for major surgery in two months time: if I wish for a better chance of survival I know I must exercise more and eat less.
But boy, oh boy! it’s difficult.
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Not everyone is overweight because they stuff themselves 24/7. So what good is education then?
The whole population is getting bigger, known fact. Just as they are now living longer.
Good for the service for trying to cater for all.
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Whilst I sympathise greatly with those who for medical reasons are classed as bariatric, I feel there is far too much leniency with children and to be honest idiocy when it comes to good dietary practice.
I grew up on a reasonably healthy diet of meat n two veg as most of my generation have. Many of that same generation now see fit to feed convenience to their kids as a quick-fix. Whilst our medical and science experts makes progress every year in lengthening our lives so many try to make their lives and the lives of their children only shorter.
We don’t need new ambulances, what we need is an entire cultural shift away from what is classed as the norm to becoming a treat.
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Possibly the most common myth around medication, illnesses and weight gain is that the weight gain is irreversible, it isn’t. Some medication and conditions can cause you to gain weight, but that weight gain does not have to remain. Conditions that make people irreversibly overweight are, thankfully, extremely rare, emphasis on extremely.
What I feel we lack is education on the fact that dieting is a systemic issue. If your diet ignores the needs of your brain you will fail, no question about it, focussing on calorie intake alone is not enough. Too many diets are lost because the brain is not getting the food it needs. For those that truly need to lose weight the answer is an approved dietician, extremely strong will and lots of support (medical and social).
While no-one should bully or be rude to overweight people, this does not mean it is helpful to accept their weight. Acceptance encourages apathy, and apathy, in this case, can literally be fatal.
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Louise comment 6 – Not everyone is overweight because they stuff themselves 24/7. So what good is education then?
People who are overweight are so because they ingest more calories than they burn, it really is that simple. ironically the argument of a slow metabolism is BS, fat people have a faster metaboloism than thin, this is fact. It is also proven fact that the argument of ” I have a slim friend who can eat anything and not gain weight, if I look at a cake I get fat” is not true.
Scientists studied groups of friends who made this claim, unbeknown to them they were given an isotope that tagged everything they ate, at the end of the experiment the fat ones swore they ate less than their thin friends, in fact the evidence proved that they ate more, typically 50% more. They were deliberately not listing everything they ate.
To lose weight you need to ingest less calories than you burn up, eat less exercise more, you don’t need to go hungry, just eat lower calorie foods that are healthier instead of high fat high cal foods like pies, cakes, bacon butties and fried food. It’s not difficult and it’s no secret, there are loads of programmes showing what you should be doing.
I agree by the way, people occupying 2 seats on a plane should be paying for them, I have to pay if my baggage is overweight. Now overweight baggage, that’s different, try as I might I can’t get it to lose weight!
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It is no longer acceptable to Drink and Drive
Smoking is now socially unacceptable
The motorist is generally regarded as a villan and persecuted in any way possible with fines and draconian parking restrictions.
How long therefore before society turns against the obese ? Try telling the parents of an injured child that the ambulance did not arrive on time because all available crews with the assitance of the fire brigade were extracting an obese person from their third floor flat
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I think it has a lot to do with what is being put in food. steroids(a growth hormone)preservatives to make it last longer and umpteen other fats colorants sugars etc.
Apples pears and other fruit we buy in supermarkets can last for up to a year with the methods they use to produce them.
I,m 5ft 4in weigh 9st 5 so nothing to worry about.
My grand-daughter is a good head taller than me and is a long tall sally.
Nearly all young people are giants these days,not because of genes,but by what they are eating.
Even though the older generation had less choice in what they were fed,it was all organic and a rare sight to see any-one fat.
This changed some time in the sixties when they started putting steroids antibiotics in animal feeds and all sorts of dyes in the food chain.
Food for thought.
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Whilst accepting that the grossly obese probably have medical/psychological issues it does annoy me that the moderately obese are not asked to pay a surcharge when flying. I have to pay for excess baggage.
However, this would be a nightmare to administer and police. How would you difrentiate between lazy people who are gready with food and those with a genuine medical/psychological problem.
Human dignity would have to be preserved… but perhaps if one is grossly overweight merely because one is greedy or lazy then perhaps loss of dignity is the price one pays… discuss.
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This is the best variant of the old chestnut “Does a child have to die before anything is done about it?” that I have seen in ages:
“Try telling the parents of an injured child that the ambulance did not arrive on time because all available crews with the assitance of the fire brigade were extracting an obese person from their third floor flat”.
Talk about tenuous!
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There are millions of diabetics, people with food-induced migraines, hormone-related conditions, genetic heart disorders, and people prone to high blood pressure. All have to follow strict diets and take medication for life. They desire fat-laden foods and alcohol as much as the next person but have to avoid them. Then there are those with life-long mental illnesses for whom each day is a battle with their own mind.
If you put on weight easier than others then that’s your affliction, it will probably be a lifelong battle. The majority of people have some equally difficult struggle. It only seems to be with obesity that we accept people giving up and making the wrong decisions.
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comment 9 Joe Average –
Fully agree, most people that I have encountered that are overweight simply don’t realise what they’ve eaten. And as for paying for 2 seats, I was recently in Exeter Airport about to be stung for excess baggage. I politely and calmly explained to the lady behind the desk that I weigh 75 kilos, my bag weighs 22 kilos, totalling 97 kilos. The fat person at the back of the queue weighs a lot more but has a smaller bag, but both person and bag will be on the plane, not just the bag. This actually worked and I was let off paying.
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Average Joe & FlyMaybe
Totally true…we’ve had debates about this subject in the past.
Personally I think the fairest solution for airlines is for each passenger to be given a total weight allowance to include body weight. That way the smaller you are (or if you have kids) the more luggage you can have
Afterall we are all pretty much paying the same air fares(unless someone requires 2 seats for their derriere).
Also, there must be security risks should a plane need to be quickly evacuated for whatever reason….the aisles are tight enough for those of medium build let alone the heavier set body types?
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#15
You were really lucky to get let off.
They are not usually generous and i will remember this if they try it with me.
Seems very unfair that someone weighing much less than another has to pay for a couple of kilos excess baggage.
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comment 16 continued….
my comments were aimed at larger body types in general and not just obese people, for example, body builders and giants.
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Simple solution, when the ambulance arrives at said fatties home, the crew simply grease them up with lard (probably preferable to the fattie), or some other such lubricant and slide them (with a run up) straight into the back of the ambulance. Additionally, we should begin the exercise regime from the moment the ambulance crew gets them into the vehicle, a hole would be cut in the bottom of the ambulance and the fattie would have to transport themselves to the hospital, a la Flintstones stylie (no effort, no treatment). We can continue the exercise regime in the hospital, we simply attach all fatties cutlery to a set of dumb bells, fairly certain they wont mind lifting weights then.
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It’s a question of money! Healthy diets cost more. My partner and I follow a healthy diet plan and it’s not cheap. So, I don’t think it’s a question of being sensible or silly when it comes to food choices, it’s about being limited to the foods you can afford.
Therefore, recommending costly foods to low-income families as a public health measure is rubbing salt in the wound. People on low incomes become obese primarily because they are poor…and no-one is poor by choice.
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So lean, fit and hardworking tax payers hard earned cash will be used to lift the self-indulgent out of their chairs and into the hospital.
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No doubt Deputy Green will add this to his health and safety crusade and bring a proposal to make being overweight illegal. Problem solved!
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I’m sorry, Born Warrior, are you saying that 1 chicken breast, 3 potatoes, a carrot and some peas cost more than a Big Mac meal?
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Born Warrior copmment 20 “It’s a question of money! Healthy diets cost more”
I don’t agree, how much does a bag of vegetables cost? OK you can shop at Iceland and eat deep fried everything ( and I suspect that many do ) but everyone knows you need a balanced diet with 5 a day ( chips, crisps, mash, jackets with cheese and roast potatoes don’t count ) I bet many of those claiming poverty drink, smoke, drive and have a big TV & Sky. You need to prioritise, what matters most in your life.
I eat what I consider to be a healthy diet, lots of fresh fruit & veg, salads and soups, crucially everything is home made from scratch, not processed. As for those who say they don’t have time most of my evening meals take between 30 and 45 mins to cook from scratch, less time than it takes to oven cook an Iceland dinner.
A bit of forward planning helps too, I cook a large pan of soup which takes about an hour and makes 12 portions, we have it for dinner, lunch the next day and freeze the rest giving future meals without any effort, I often cook double portions and freeze what’s left giving a midweek meal.People are fat because they choose to be, it’s not an accident, it is entirely preventable.
I was obese throughout my childhood due to poor diet, I got asthma in my teens and nearly died, when I was admitted to hospital they sorted me out, I lost 6 stone and never gained it back, I learned the hard way that you are responsible for your weight. I think overweight people should be given all the help with regard to educating them that they need, thereafter it’s their choice. Certainly I don’t think they should be denied healthcare, any more than smokers, drinkers and anyone else who overindulges, after all they pay extra duty on their chosen vices which funds the system.
Totally agree that a weight limit on flights is fair with less heavy people having a greater luggage allowance, otherwise we are subsidising the fatties.
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Perhaps GST should be increased to 25% for fat and calorie rich foods – takeaways and fizzy drinks, for example that are unnecessary to life and very fattening.
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Here’s the easiest solution. Publish a formal policy that unless someone can be easily manouevred into a standard ambulance by 2 medics using standard equipment they will have to get to hospital by themselves.
And also, let’s not call them bariatric, lets call them what they are: morbidly obese.
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Michael 23.
I totally agree Michael, but that meal which, although would satisfy the average educated-eater, would not fill a growing boy for long. Hence, the extra bread, etc. And as we all know, it’s the empty calories that pile on the weight.
I’m not making excuses for obesity, but it’s rather odd that the wealthier members of our society are hardly ever ‘fat’!
Economic hardships provoke unhealthy eating trends. The poorer you are, the less you have of most things, even sensible nutrition.
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People should go on a diet. Half the calorie diet. Just eat half as much food as you would normally, and because its a half calorie diet you can eat twice as much! Everyones happy!
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Born Warrior: “I’m not making excuses for obesity, but it’s rather odd that the wealthier members of our society are hardly ever ‘fat’!”
No, it’s not. It’s totally predictable. By and large, people are wealthy because they have studied hard at scool and then at university. They then will have taken a job where they were required to work diligently and efficiently for many years. They then get promoted, usually beyond their abilities, and get rich and usually insufferable.
The point is this: the rich have learned the lesson that immediate gratification does not lead to long term satisfaction. Most kids prefer watching TV or playing a computer game to reading. Most kids prefer a donut to balanced meal. Most kids prefer sweet cider to single malt. Most prefer casual sex to a long term relationship.
But what seperates adults from children is the ability to learn and discern, to appreciate the difference between wasting your time on a laugh and doing something for your long term benefit.
The poor, like the obese, like the drug addled and alcoholic, all those who show the symptoms of an “estate education”, invariably manifest the same underlying problem: bewilderment resulting from immaturity.
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It’s actually more the saturated fats that make you gain weight, not just the calories. If said ‘growing boy’ is still hungry, it means he isn’t eating what his body needs.
I’m still not buying the whole i can’t afford healthy food attitude, it’s just about shifting blame.
The wealthier members of society probably aren’t as fat because they are concious of their appearance more than because of their financial situation.
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forgot to add in addition to being better educated to sum it up.
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Are Mr Le Main and Mr Ryan now considering a daily newsletter for those States tenants who don’t know how to get their day in.
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Mulvie Le Phew 24.
Re your comment: “I think overweight people should be given all the help with regard to educating them…”
I agree with you to that point, after which I’m not so sure that it is their choice whether or not they continue to ‘grow’.
Let’s take the example of the child who studies nutrition at school and then goes home to parents whose idea of a balanced meal is ‘a beer in each hand’.
What chance has that child got?
Such children are forced to eat what’s available…more often than not ‘junk food’. And, eating habits are hereditary so their children will have the same problems and so on and so forth until society pulls them out of economic hardship.
mad foetus 29.
Re your comment: “The poor, like the obese, like the drug addict and alcoholic, all those who show the symptoms of an “estate education”, invariably manifest the same underlying problem: bewilderment resulting from immaturity…”
I totally agree, however, I would extend the last part to: “bewilderment resulting from immaturity and poverty”.
Poverty is loathsome and the great struggle of life should be to get rid of it…not look down on it.
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if the price of good food continues to rise, many will be only able to afford”junk food”
or economy style food.
mind you if you pick up a cook book or go online these days there is no reason, why a freash meal cannot be produced,adults need to teach kids how to cook, and so should the schools.
not all food comes out of the freezer section , in boxes.
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If anyone’s going to take the education tack it needs to be levelled at parents. The biggest influence on your metabolism is the first 5 years of your life i.e. before a child has any say in what it eats or how much it runs around outdoors. And as the news finally got around to reporting today this means that if you are overweight at the age of 5 the chances of you remaining overweight for life are very high. That doesn’t mean you can’t do anything about it, just that it will be all the harder for you.
Parents need to be giving their children the best start in life.
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34 David
In my day schools did teach kids how to cook amongst other things….it was called Home Economics. It included nutrition too. Does this not happen anymore?
24 Mulvie
A meal may take 45 mins from scratch but often it is easier to oven cook a ready meal becaue one can then spend the cooking time to attend to other chores or work.
Personally, after a long days work I neither have the time nor inclination to spend more time in the kitchen than I have to. I save my cooking for weekends when I have more time and can enjoy my creation.
Thankfully, I am not overweight but my eating habits could be better. I guess I simply burn more calories than I eat by keeping fairly active.
Obesity is not entirely down to eating too much….many bodybuilders can eat 3 or 4 times the recommended daily intake. Kids I feel are simply too lazy these days and are not active enough…..computer games are part of the problem as well as high-calorie alcopops !
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“Poverty is loathsome and the great struggle of life should be to get rid of it…not look down on it”
I don’t disagree, but I do think there is no poverty in Jersey. The obese are those who eat too much – by definition therefore they have money to waste on food they do not need. If you have Sky TV, if your rent is paid for by the States, if you smoke, if you drink, if you gamble, if you work less than 50 hours a week, you are not poor. The chances are you are lazy or stupid, but we must not confuse laziness and stupidity with poverty.
The people in Haiti were poor. The relative poverty in Jersey is laughable by comparison.
By and large, people are not fat because they are poor, they are fat because they have no self-control. The poor were not fat until they lost all moral compass.
Fatties! Shape up or ship out. But no extra tax to import ambulances from Florida please.
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@21
Why not, they all ready go to the alcoholics and drug abusers. !
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It is almost funny reading some of the misguided comments being made by “experts”. Very few of thesecomments show any accuracy.
I admit to being a fat person.
I have never used the ambulance service, even when breaking bones, or damaging an eye.
I have rarely visited my gp and am rarely off work through illness.
The same can not be said for a lot of the slim people I know.
Perhaps all the fat people that are getting taxed to provide health care and not receiving it should consider not paying. Then all of the slim people costing the health service money would finally be paying a fair amount.
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To @37
I’m a “fattie” and I will neither shape up or ship out. Don’t worry though, the hospital can’t treat me, so I won’t be a drain on resources.
So much for people having free choice on how they conduct their lives. Reading you lot, you sound as bad as hitler, wanting the “perfect race”!
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mad foetus 37.
Granted, I used the wrong word. I should have used the word ‘poorness’ as the ‘fatties’ (as you put it) are lacking not only in financial resources but also in enthusiasm and hope. They are desperate demoralized people looking for solace…which, unfortunately, they find in food!
Therefore, something must be done to arouse their interest in ‘life’ and to discourage their dreary existence. This dilemma (because obesity is a dilemma) cannot be solved without radical changes in our society. It’s no good having a fleet of ‘oversize’ ambulances, or even teams of disheartened instructors – trying vainly to teach ‘fatties’ “How to eat sensibly” – when these people have a magnitude of unsolved problems.
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I think the problems over the past generation are quite involved. The pace of life has changed and more families have fragmented with people living on their own. This means we eat on the go, and invariably it’s junk food. Single people can’t be bothered to prepare meals for 1, so they whack horrible processed meals into the microwave. The internet means everything is at our fingertips. This makes us lazy, hence the reason we drive everywhere – a 10 minute walk is a huge inconvenience. Also, the age of games consoles, mobiles, 100+ channels on Sky, the internet etc, has made us a generation of couch potatoes. Can anybody with answers to these deep rooted problems please let me know. Thanks
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“Reading you lot, you sound as bad as hitler, wanting the “perfect race”!
That is offensive in the extreme. Hitler killed people on the basis of their race, religon and sexuality. I am simply suggesting that people take responsibility for their own actions.
That you could equate the 2 tells its own story.
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I think all of the fat-fascists should think very carefully before they start refusing to treat obese people in hospital and charging them extra to get on a plane so that they can pay less for their luggage.
For a start most people are ‘overweight if you go by the BMI scales currently used.
That might only be ‘slightly’ overweight or having ‘love handles’ but according to current norms it is still overweight.
Recently out of 15 people in our office one was within the acceptable weight to height ratio and she had the figure of a model. The rest mainly women had what I think would be classed as normal figures.
The problem we have is that if we set the bar too high ‘normal’ weight becomes unachievable for the vast majority of the population so why bother.
If we stop treating fat people in hospital is that everyone outside the BMI ‘normal’ range, or just a certain percentage over it?
What about those under weight who starve themselves and have health problems? I know of one woman with a cracking figure (by modern standards and skinny as a rake) who maintains it by chewing her food and spitting it out?
Is she worthy of sympathy or to be ostracised and penalised as is the fat person? Or is she to be held up as an icon for keeping her weight down to an acceptable level?
Where do we stop medically treating people because of their lifestyle? All those people running on roads doing marathons etc, what will happen when their joints give out and they require replacement bits that a slob like me has to pay for via their income tax and social security?
As for the overweight plane passenger complaint, should you only get a reduction on your baggage charges if there is a fat person on a plane for you to humiliate, or should you get a reduction if there are no fat people for you to point out as imperfect and not fit for the normal courtesy we should accord to our fellow tax paying human beings?
On that note if fat people are to receive less health care and live shorter lives should we pay less in tax? Seems reasonable to me, which means you skinny folks who will live longer and cost more in pension payments would pay more in tax as you will get more benefit.
In fact this is really the logical conclusion to the argument of restricting the benefits available to the obese, tax the thin at a higher level!
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@39
You are of course right, it is a well known fact that overweight individuals, as a general rule are far less likely to need any kind of hospital treatment. Their rotundness tends to deflect all known germs/viruses etc, not to mention, diabetes and heart disease are almost unheard of amongst the pie munching fraternity, i`m not a Doctor but i believe its due to the flakiness of the shortcrust pastry which prevents the arteries becoming blocked!!! I also heard that due to their almost superhuman powers against disease and deluded self belief, the 2012 olympic team will be populated entirely by fatties & sponsored by Ginsters. Regarding taxation i believe the only fair way is to increase the tax on certain items, pies obviously, ski/jogging pants & any unfeasibly tight lycra clothing, anti chaffing cream, funhouse mirrors etc. this should ensure the correct people are taxed and slim people pay their fair share.
@40
Its a shame some of you will not “ship out” as the resultant aircraft carriers that would of been required & subsequent boat building facilities this would of created in Jersey would surely of been a boon in these recession hit times.
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Boris,
Nobody is saying fat people shouldn’t be treated in hospital. What I am saying is that extra public money should not be spent on buying supersize ambulances.
In other words, I am saying fat people should be treated as normal people: again, the fact that you equate this with “fascism” tells its own story.
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#39
Agree
A lot of my underweight or very thin friends have died long before their time,while the average or fat ones are still here.
If you have a serious illness you have a much better chance of survival than a thin person as a fat person has something to fight with.
my husband had a heart attack 10 odd years ago and was sent to ST. George hospital in London,and all the other patients bar 2 out of 30 were thin.
He had stents put in his arteries to keep them open.
He asked the heart surgeon about changing his diet and was told it would not make much difference as most coronary heart decease was down to genes.
As for body mass index mines is 22 very good according to doc,but I don,t believe in this method for assessment,as someone with a muscular frame can weigh a couple of stone more than me and wear the same size clothes,because muscle weighs more than fat.
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@44
You are of course right, we (the fat facists) SHOULD be very careful, if you (the fatties) gang up, we wont stand a chance…. obviously once you`ve caught us.
As far as air travel goes, i`m surprised its such an issue, i would of thought air travel would be a fatty`s least favorite form of transport, after all airports are nearly always at reasonably high altitudes (up a hill) and then you have stairs to contend with to get onto the aircraft, i think 2 of a fatty`s least favorite things…. unless there are pie`s at the top of either!!! i feel boats would be much more appetising… no pun intended.
As far as skinny/underweight people being ostracised the way you say fatties are, well i don`t think its as simple as that, after all, you are simply larger targets….. MUCH larger.
As for taxing the thin at a higher level because you say that fatties will die off earlier, so costing the State less in the long run, due pensions. Well i can see your point, maybe once someone becomes a certain size, lets say 30% above the recommended BMI for an adult, they stop paying income tax and social, of course this won`t really matter because by this stage the State will be making a fortune from said fatty in pie taxes, they will of course stop getting any medical treatment though and then all of that particular fatty`s monies will be put into, what we could call, Normal sizers rainy day fund, its only fair.
Just a few thoughts!!!
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Ali Comment 38 – “Why not, they all ready go to the alcoholics and drug abusers”. !
Alcoholics have ben mentioned a few times so I felt I should make an important distinction that many may not know. Alcoholism is a disease and is recognised as such by the medical profession. Alcoholics are born with this disease, if they never take a drink they will never know they have it, if they do they are genetically pre programmed to drink in a different way to normal people. The way that alcoholics drink varies widely, some will drink to excess every day, others binge drink and stay sober for weeks. Yet others the majority lead what appear to be normal lives, have jobs, wives and kids and mortgages but drink daily, some what would be considered an excessive amount say 10 pints or 3 bottles of wine. Others me included in my drinking days drink a bottle of wine or 4 or 5 pints after work. The difference for us alcoholics is that we cannot have a single drink, we will always find an excuse to have enough to take us to our “zone”
You will be familiar with those poor unfortunates on the Parade, they are either at the end of the alcoholic cycle as it is a progressive disorder only getting worse or they have the disease so badly that their fall has been swift and dramatic.
In closing people don’t choose to be alcoholics, they are born that way, the only choice they make is whether to take a drink, thereafter all choice is removed from them. I now choose not to drink as I know what will happen if I do. Confusingly there are people who routinely drink heavily and are not alcoholics, they can and often do stop drinking when their circumstances change, we alcoholics never stop no matter what our circumstances, unless we recognise our condition and choose to change, if we do we can never drink again.
I don’t know about drug addicts but I suspect many are the same, in fact I beleive in a condition that pre disposes people to addictive behaviour which will include alcohol, drugs and even food, yes I think that some people have an addictive personality condition that means that they can and do become addicted to a variety of things amongs them food, exercise also for some.
If you don’t believe alcoholism is a disease just google it, I know many would prefer to believe that drunks are lazy wasters as that is what they appear to be but they are suffering from a disease for which there is no cure and the only treatment is total abstinance, unfortunately in a society where alcohol is so acceptable and freely available this is not easy, assuming of course that they even know they are alcoholics which they may not. We drunks have a saying – if it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck and it walks like a duck – chances are it’s a duck. In other words if someone displays the charesterics of an alcoholic they are likely suffering from that illness.
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You don’t need the services of a nutritionist and a personal trainer to work ot what is good for you. Those who work in health promotion have been givign out the right advice for years, it’s constantly repackaged and sold back to us at an ever higher price but the basic message is the same:
1. Eat a healthy, balanced diet (plenty of wholefoods, fresh fruit and vegetables).
2. Exercise regularly, so you work up a sweat, preferably for 30 minutes a day (housework and gardening, hell even walking up and down stairs counts as exercise).
It is really that simple. You can only do it if you really, really want to do it, but there are ways to make it easier. Avoid joining the gym because when you get fed up of going you will feel guilty and then you will begin to eat more. Incorporated exercise into your routine instead by walking part or all of the way to work or buying a bicycle, then you won;t have an excuse not to do it. If you have land (or acces to an allotment) grow your own veg, then you get to exercise and eat healthily at the same time.
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If something is a problem, it gets taxed to put us off (i.e. alchohol, car use).
So, tax junk food. It’s not rocket science, is it?
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Do people understand that there is ‘fat’ and there is ‘FAT’. To be causing problems for the ambulance service we are not talking someone who could do with losing a few stone, we are talking people that have seriously neglected their own wellbeing (for whatever reason, I don’t believe people do it intentionally).
Obesity is a major drain on health services, that’s just a fact. And because some people live long with obesity doesn’t mean the rest of us should just get obese, chance our arm and risk orphaning children. Plenty of people die from obesity problems, slowly and very painfully.
Health services consider underweight people every bit as seriously as they do overweight people, but two wrongs don’t make a right. A healthy weight is a range, and that range is quite large really. We all have a responsibility to ourselves, our loved ones and society to look after ourselves as best we can.
#40 Well done for being the first to mention Hitler. It’s wrong to victimise overweight people but it’s not wrong to encourage them to lose weight, it IS in their best interests.
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Baz loving your comments, it seems you’ve upset some porkers by daring to suggest that what the experts have been saying for years is true.
Bella 47 – “If you have a serious illness you have a much better chance of survival than a thin person as a fat person has something to fight with”.
This is priceless, you couldn’t make it up, same denial mentality as the smokers who have an aunt who smoked 400 Woodbine’s a day and lived to 306, course she might have lived to 400 without the fags, we’ll never know.
If fat is healthy then why won’t surgeons operate on fat people for fear of them dying during the operation? ah unless Bella’s health preserving fat is asleep during the op and unable to assist. If only they could find a way to keep the fat awake during the op, then again would it feel pain, is it conscious? more research needed here methinks instead of them wasting their time telling fatties to abstain from the pies.
So what do we think, is every health professional on the planet wrong and fat is really healthy, or do we have a couple of misguided people in denial of the obvious – which do you think is most likely?
C’mon fatties respond
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No. 38 A ‘Fatties Anonymous’ department would not work. It would be impossible to disguise oneself when attending meetings.
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Joe average weight @ 52
I don’t think anyone is seriously saying being overweight is healthy it is not; but there are a variety of reasons as to why people eat so much they get overweight, some of it is self inflicted and some as a result of a deep seated trauma. Calling someone fatty without knowing why they are in that condition (if one should do it whatever the cause) is rather rude and abusive and you might as well shout ‘spastic’ at a ‘cripple’ as they hobble down the street.
In point of fact your random use of the word ‘fatty’ is equally as abusive and unacceptable as shouting ‘flid’ at some limbless victim of medical negligence.
If you feel the need due to your own inadequacies to shout fatty at someone then so be it. Just remember you might well be screwing up someone’s already blighted existence. But if it makes you happy then I am sure their suffering is worth it.
Just remember you might be shouting ‘fatty’ at a victim of years of abuse who has found solace in stuffing their face instead of in the bottom of a bottle. Or you might just be shouting fatty at a lazy slob like me.
Whatever floats your boat I suppose
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#52
I kid you not.
If you do a search you will see this is correct.
I,m not saying obese,but fat or over-weight do have a better chance of survival in most cases.
What about all them that have liposuction (a very serious opt) and many other fat reductions.
If you go private you will get any op you want regardless of your life style or weight
Money talks again
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And 52
I am not overweight,and never have been so am not in denial,if you took the trouble to look further up the thread you will see for yourself
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Boris comment 54 “Calling someone fatty is rather rude and abusive and you might as well shout ’spastic’ at a ‘cripple’ as they hobble down the street”.
Not true a cripple does not choose to be crippled, they are helpless victims.
“In point of fact your random use of the word ‘fatty’ is equally as abusive and unacceptable as shouting ‘flid’ at some limbless victim of medical negligence”
Again not true as they did not choose to be a victim of negligence.
This comes to the nub of the issue for me, fat/overweight people/bloaters/self indulgent pigs – whatever your preferred term, they are responsible for their condition ( unless children who I accept are fed by their parents who are responsible )it is not an accident, something that just happened to them without them realising. They are entirely complicit in their own condition.
To compare such people to the poor unfortunates suffering from accident of birth or circumstance is to insult them by implying that they are responsible for their disability.
Remember think once, think twice, think – just say no to the pies/ cakes/ biscuits/ crisps/takeways, you salad dodgers.
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@49
I am fully aware that alcoholism is a disease. I am also aware of the “unfortunates in the parade” as one of them is a family member. He wasn’t born an alcoholic he turned to alcohol because he chose to. Then too late the addiction got a hold.
I find your comment about being born an alcoholic interesting, not something I have heard before or ever researched. I would be more inclined to think they are born with a predisposition for addiction, the same befalling those with drug dependancy. I am willing to be proved incorrect and intend to read up on the subject.
Passing a question back to you. Were you aware that new thinking is that obesity is being linked to a genetic abnormality?
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Here are a few medical facts for most of the “experts” that are commenting without researching their claims.
1) There are many medical reasons that can have an adverse effect on a person’s weight, or ability to exercise. Thyroid gland, respiratory or heart problems. Physical or medical disability.
2) A person’s metabolism is constantly changing during the day. It is far from a fixed constant.
3) Latest research shows that overweight and fat people suffer less from viral infections and take less time off work through viruses, like colds and flu. Loss of work through colds and flu being the biggest loss of revenue to business and the biggest single cause of sickness benefit payments.
4) Diabetes is not sizest (unlike a lot of the posters so far). There can be a slight increase of risk, but this is far from guaranteed and only slight.
5) The human race is constantly increasing in size, a it has done for thousands of years. The Jersey health authority (like most airlines)is at least thirty years out of date with it’s size ranges.
6) A lot of the posters on here making derogatory comments would I’m sure love to know that they would technically be classed as overweight or even fat on the hospital weight scales.
Also mad_foetus commented about an “estate education” and tried to insinuate this was a fat person issue. I have lived on several housing estates and visited friends on others. I have seen from experience that there are twice as many slim people “avoiding work” and claiming benefit as fat people.
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Seeing as we are all fat by gorging inanely I am very tempted to post my daily food intake on here for a week. Then again, maybe not, after all I would be lying wouldn’t I!!
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The real point of the article is one of the equipment not being able to handle above a certain weight.
Top bodybuilders that have a BMI at less than a third of the average person, would weigh too much for the ambulance equipment.
Does anyone fancy trying to tell one of them they should shape up because they weigh too much ?
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@43
You found my use of the word hitler offensive. Oh dear, I am sorry.
I find the use of the word “fatty” offensive, but that doesn’t matter does it, as I obviously have no feelings. After all as suggested fat=stupid, and being stupid I couldn’t possibly be offended.
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Mags #40.
Congratulations! Proof of Godwins Law…
The thread is considered over when comparisons are made with Hitler and/or the Nazi Party.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin‘s_law
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“Not true a cripple does not choose to be crippled, they are helpless victims”
I would have to disagree, in part, with this comment.
Instances do exist when someone will deliberately make themselves a “cripple”.
For instance there are well documented cases of individuals, whilst suffering with Body Dysmorphia/Body dysmorphic disorder being desperate enough to amputate their own limbs . Even cases where the desire to be rid of the offending part is so great, that the medical profession will remove it for the overall wellbeing of the individual.
Either way, this could be argued they are rendering themselves a “cripple” especially if it were an arm or leg.
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Mad Foetus (comment 37)Absolutely correct-it always angers me when people say there is poverty in Jersey (or the UK for that matter)I have seen plenty of people who LOOK poverty-stricken in Jersey but as you say they have cars,they smoke etc etc.They simply choose not to spend their money on looking decent(ie washing their clothes) or eating healthily.Others have remarked that it is expensive and time consuming to eat healthily and that convenience junk food is easier.The problem I have with that is that if you CHOOSE to have children you are under an obligation to feed them healthily and teach them about such things.Probably a very old fashioned idea I know!
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Julie 66.
Initially, I used the word ‘poverty’ (33) then, in a later post (41), corrected it to ‘poorness’…as many people in Jersey are lacking not only in financial resources but also in enthusiasm and hope.
Are you suggesting that people who ignore their appearance (do not wash their clothes) and dismiss health risks (eat ‘junk’ food) are rich in hope and enthusiasm?
If you are, I must disagree.
In my opinion, this type of behaviour is a ‘cry for help’ and a clear indication of the odious malady (psychological poorness) which afflicts those who have lost all hope.
And without doubt, eating “convenience junk food” (your words) is much easier than preparing expensive, nutritious, time-consuming meals…that it why it’s called “convenience” food.
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Ali 59 “Passing a question back to you. Were you aware that new thinking is that obesity is being linked to a genetic abnormality?”
No I wasn’t but I don’t doubt that a percentage of those suffering from obesity have a genetic predisposition towards it, whether this is due to a genetic abnormality or simpy a genetic trait I don’t know. If true I doubt it applies to all obese people simply because there are so many of them. Also there are clear social reasons why people are overweight, kids who were only ever fed junk food that didn’t exist 50 years ago. Kids who don’t exercise in the way a previous generation did and spend most of their time on video games or computers insted of playing outside. This kids can easily grow up to become obese adults, I often hear obese people describe food that I would consider total rubbish to be a treat. They need their palates re educating to appreciate a broader range of foods.
I also accept that those with a predisposition towards addictive behaviour may well choose food as their addiction, hardly surprising as we have to eat. The sheer numbers of overweight people ( one in three according to recent research ) is such that it cannot be blamed on a genetic disorder although it may account in part.
Regarding being born an alcoholic, it is accepted by Alcoholics Anonomyous that one is born an alcoholic after much research over the last 80 years, of course they may be wrong. I strongly suspect that many suffering from addictive personality conditions also are diagnosed as alcoholics as they exhibit the same symptoms, for these alcohol may not be the only addiction.
Don’t get me wrong, for some being obese is due to genetic programming but I don’t beleive this applies to the majority.
Not my original post I know but your comment regarding cripples who choose to have limbs removed is hardly in context, if you look you will find extremes in every area. The vast majority of people who have a disability do not choose to have it, I would have thought this self explanatory.Speaking as a registered disabled person myself I certainly did not choose my disability, nor do I know anyone who is disabled who did.
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#50 While what you say is true, we would always suggest that those who are at the level of obesity mentioned in the article get medical help to diet. Choosing a wrong diet can put more stress on the heart, and too many diets are lost because they don’t meet the needs of the body as a whole.
#65 Instances also exist in the number of people with obesity-related diabetes having to have amputations. The NHS is having to pump more and more money into prosthetic and orthotics to keep up with Britain’s increasing size!
#60 Medical problems causing weight gain does not mean that weight gain cannot be lost. It may be extremely difficult but we all have our struggles. Your metabolism changing throughout the day is irrelevant, anyone dieting should know when is the best time to eat. While #3 is true to a degree it doesn’t hold true for the level of obesity mentioned in the article. Type 2 Diabetes IS ‘sizest’, and most cases of Diabetes (about 9 out of 10) are Type 2! No, that doesn’t mean it’s guaranteed, what is? We don’t give out this information just to make overweight people feel bad, it’s a real risk that they face that can be prevented.
I’m not sizest, nor would I register as overweight on anyone’s scale. I am concerned that we are turning a blind eye to a serious health problem for fear of offending someone.
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#59 Is it possible that you’ve taken the genetics factor a little out of context? Genetics can have an effect on your metabolism, how active you are, and your desire to eat, as can your phenotype. Your phenotype may actually be the most critical of the two. However, what your genes cannot do is create fat on your body when you haven’t consumed any, or increase your fat when you exercise.
Genetics will no doubt become a convenient excuse for some but if people exercise and eat less they will lose body fat, regardless of their genetic makeup. Their genes will only affect how easy it is for them to lose the fat.
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It seems impossible to post on here without someone being offended. I’ll try my best, after all I should be entitled to my opinion.
I am a smoker. I have smoked for over half of my 34 years. I know it is bad for me and that I should stop. I am, however, addicted to the little coffin nails and have yet to manage to quit. My addiction is not a disease, it is a life choice.
I probably drink too much, in fact going by the earlier post I may actuallt qualify as an alcoholic (I apologise for using the term qualify – I am not trying to be rude to anyone by doing so). This is a concern to me as my alcohol intake is way above the recommended amount. However, this addiction – if that is what it is – is a life choice not a disease.
I choose to eat reasonably healthy. I am not a salad munching rye bread fanatic, but at the same time I do not have pizza delivered to me every night. I try to ensure a balance of good food and unhealthy (but lets face it – nice)food so that life is enjoyable for me. I walk regularly and make sure that I am not active. I have games consoles and the internet and Sky with over 100 channels and watch too much TV.
Despite all of these things I am not obese. I have a bit of a gut, but that’s it. This isn’t me being lucky with my metabolism, this is me making sure that I stay like this. All of the things that could make me overweight are controlled by me. This is my life choice.
There is no excuse of addictions or disease that can be made for these things as they are all the choice that a person makes when they get up in the morning. Leukemia, Meningitis, Influenza. These are diseases. Would someone who sits in the park drinking all day or someone who eats 4 or 5 burgers every day really feel that they have the nerve to group themselves with a Leukemia sufferer?
Please stop with the excuses and start to take responsibility for your own life instead of blaming governments or society for your own choices.
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There once lived a Jerseyman who was fat,
and all over the taxpayers he spat,
when he needed an ambulance, he couldnt fit in –
the paramedics were having none of that.
So off he complained to the States,
who held some heated debates.
In the end they passed a proposition,
and told the people to listen.
“we only have limited resources,
for those who only eat 8 courses.
Its your choice whether you make fuss,
but your size wasnt up to us.”
The people cheered in celebration,
and wrote to the fat man in commisoration.
So off the man went,
to suck the money out of another society
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Michael (71) is entirely correct. In fact, it is almost pointless to comment because he has so accurately hit the nail on the head. But I will anyway.
I am very similar to him. Here’s the crux: you refuse to let your weight go above a certain level. For me, that is 14 stone. I should probably be 12 and a half stone, I would be happy to be 13 stone, but I will not be more than 14 stone.
14 stone and a 34 inch trousers are my line in the sand. When I hit that weight I cut out anything sweet or carby until I’m well below 14 stone. If I don’t fit 34 inch pants I diet until I do.
It’s not complex. If genetics are to blame for a lack of self-control then we should stop people with no self-control breeding. But they aren’t and we won’t. We are humans, we have free will.
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I think most, if not all, the fat public don’t like their predicament.
It’s easy to say “stop eating” but all sorts of emotional factors come in to play.
Diet is a biggie though. Governments should decide on what is a good diet, and prevent advertising anything else. In my opinion, diets like the “eat special K for two weeks and drop a size” are “sensational”.
What I mean is that the reality is that only a prisoner or the most disciplined could stick to this diet, so in a “trial” they could prove it works. However, in real life, no-one can, since the sugary “low-fat” diet is actually the diet that promotes craving and storage of sugar (+ water) as fat.
Therefore, block their promotion. It’s like craftily advertising cigarettes – they’ll give you a good cough to clear your pipes out, for example.
(And I think charging for flights by weighing the passenger surely is a fair thing).
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Michael 71.
Re you comment: “I am a smoker. I have smoked for over half of my 34 years. I know it is bad for me and that I should stop. I am, however, addicted to the little coffin nails and have yet to manage to quit. My addiction is not a disease, it is a life choice.”
So you are saying that smoking is an addiction (which you know is harmful) but you can’t manage to quit, right?
Which makes you no different from a compulsive eater…you can’t manage to quit smoking and they can’t manage to quit eating.
Or are you saying that you have some kind of death wish?
However, you are right when you say that obese people should not be grouped with Leukemia sufferers. As an alternative, they could be grouped with smokers, alcoholics and drug addicts…people who all show signs of serious self-neglect and therefore, all require help and therapy.
I hope you’re not offended.
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Born Warrior(67)No,I was simply explaining why I hate the use of the word “poverty” when true poverty does not exist in Jersey (but yes of course there are plenty of people with low self-esteem)
Regarding the issue of healthy food being expensive and time consuming to prepare I have to disagree.Stews,soups,chillies etc take a few minutes and can then be left in a slow cooker all day if required and the cheaper cuts of meat (or just veg if necessary)can be used.Obviously I am referring to a family being fed here and I repeat that if you bring children in to the world you should feed them properly.Don’t get me wrong I can enjoy a burger or bung-in-the-oven meal as much as anyone-I am no Domestic Goddess! but I really cannot agree they work out cheaper for feeding a family.
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Bad diet & no exercise = fat = fact
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Born Warrior
No, I am not offended at all. You have only vilified my point. As a smoker I am ostricised from society. I get no special treatment as a smoker. When I fly it is law that I do not affect anyone else with my habit on the flight by not allowing me to smoke on the plane. If I was drunk I would be labelled a nuisance on the plane and the crew would ensure that I did not offend or affect anyone else on the plane. If I was using drugs I would be imprisoned. And yet a food addict on a plane can be wedged into an economy class seat next to me so that I have little room to breath yet alone be comfortable on a flight and I can do nothing about it without me being percieved as the aggressor.
If you so want to place over-eaters into the same group as smokers then how about we only allow them to eat outside when they go to a restaurant so as not to ruin the experience of other diners?
The point I was making is that I choose the way I live and live with the consequences. If I wanted to give up smoking and drinking enough then I would make sure that I did. I don’t believe that any of these groups have the right to protection and help from tax payers money when it is their – and mine – decision to be in this position. Lung cancer from smoking would be entirely my own fault. I would not wish for sympathy for my own poor choices in life.
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@ Michael #78
“…how about we only allow them to eat outside when they go to a restaurant so as not to ruin the experience of other diners?…”
That action is not really equal to forcing smokers out.
A smoker’s action would have an effect on the people around them, unless you’re suggesting that the over-eater is having an actual effect on the table next to them by over-eating the two are not the same thing.
That said, I agree with most of what you say; 99%+ of the time, obesity is a life choice, like smoking or drinking to excess.
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Make fresh vegetables, fruit, fish and lean meat cheaper by removing GST from them and subsidising the cost by increasing the GST on unhealthy food..(plus an additional 2% or so which can be directed to the ‘Big Ambulance Fund’.)
Result: No excuses. The obese will be able to afford to eat cheap healthy food or, if they chose not to do so, at least they will be buying their own ambulance from the money raised by the increase in GST. They will also be contributing to keeping the price of healthy food down for those who prefer to eat it.
It might also help, when calling 999, if the operator asks the caller for the patients BMI when they answer the phone. The Ambulance staff will then know which vehicle to turn up in.
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Good plan Stan Still. A bit like the way that the extra duties on cigarettes are meant to offset the cost of medical treatment if/when smokers get related diseases. Seriously though if the states do as you suggest in terms of the shift in GST it will reduce the excuses. Perhaps alongside that a maildrop of quick and easy recipes that can be cooked with “from scratch” ingredients to inspire people to shift from buying ready-meals containing all sorts for the convenience factor. From scratch recipes could also be promoted in the supermarkets by way of free recipe cards placed next to the main ingredients in the fruit and veg and meat aisles.
Ultimately though all members of society need to start taking responsibility for themselves (and their kids) and stop blaming genetics, prices, etc for the state of their health. The health service in Jersey doesn’t have infinite resources. Should the ambulance service go down the route of buying “bariatric” ambulances you can guarantee there’ll be an outcry from the taxpaying public (or certain posters on this site) about the use of their money.
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78 Michael “If I was using drugs I would be imprisoned”
At the risk of pointing out the obvious you are a drug user, a drug addict in fact and the drug you are addicted to is the most dangerous on earth. Responsible for killing more people than every other drug on the planet put together. Half of all smokers will die of smoking related illness, half of those that don’t will suffer from a smoking related disease, that’s 75% of all smokers either dying or suffering from related illnesses which include losing limbs due to gangrene brought on by poor circulation.
“I get no special treatment as a smoker”
I don’t know where you work but the smokers in my office are allowed fag breaks, I timed one of them and if you multiply the amount of time taken daily by the amount of hours worked annually, the smoker’s get an extra 70 hours or 2 weeks holiday a year, that’s 50% more holiday time than I get – no special treatment?
“If you so want to place over-eaters into the same group as smokers then how about we only allow them to eat outside when they go to a restaurant so as not to ruin the experience of other diners?”
I never heard of anyone suffering much less dying from passive eating, smoker’s don’t just ruin the dining experience for others, they risk infecting them with smoke that will kill them. Why else the smoking ban if no correlation between breathing in 2nd hand smoke and contracting smoking related illness and dying – ask Roy Castle ( you’ll need a spiritualist )
And this is the real problem, smokers have for years engaged in their addiction forcing non smokers to put up with polluted air and branding them as moaners if they dare complain that they would like not to die prematurely.
By all means undulge in your drug of choice where the law permits but don’t compare it to any other addiction, there is none so deadly.
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Michael 78.
The main difference between alcholics and smokers, is that ‘booze’ goes into the body and not into the air where it affects the rest of us.
Furthermore, the cost of treating a lung-cancer patient is no cheaper than treating the ailments of an obese person…yet you consider your addiction to be ‘light’.
Smoking, drinking and compulsive eating are all addictions, therefore, psychological disorders and as such should never be considered as ‘Life choices’. In my opinion they are ‘Death wishes’…and anyone with a death wish needs help.
P.S. I don’t drink, I have never had a cigarette or taken drugs in my life, I follow a sensible diet and I take regular exercise…these are ‘Life choices’.
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Julie 76.
I agree with you on most points, but what I’m trying to say is that compulsive eaters look for the ‘instant fix’ and can’t/won’t wait for a stew to cook (hence burgers, chips, etc.).
Most people eat to live, unfortunately they live to eat. Nearly all of them come from the low-income group. Therefore, I think it’s true to say that hardship causes more problems than we can imagine…especially to the weak-willed.
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“I don’t drink, I have never had a cigarette or taken drugs in my life, I follow a sensible diet and I take regular exercise”
And you’re proud of that?
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did you know that 9 out of 10 heart by-pass operations are for smokers . what costs more for the health system; endless by-pass operations or a one off payment for a crane ?
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Lots of silly and small minded comments about “fat” people on this forum. It is very easy to say that they should eat less but, as I understand it, the craving increases with the number of fat cells! The problem of obesity is becoming a real problem in the western world. Is there any easy answer? Probably not. In the meantime, services like the ambulance service just has to adapt in the interest of health and safety if nothing else.
I am sure that really overweight people must have a hell of a bad time. A couple go to the gym where I go and I do admire their courage. I am sure that many must feel very conscious of going out (let alone to a gym), particularly when they are clearly objects of mirth to some.
By the way, I am not overweight and I am not taking the moral high ground either! It just seems to be a shame to laugh at anybody. I hope that my contribution does not offend any of my fellow commentators
On another note, I am aware of cases where a very overweight person passed away at home and the services had to remove the window and winch out the deceased on a crane. That really is very sad and I don’t think that anyone would want to go that way.
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Mad foetus 85.
It’s nothing to do with pride…it’s called ‘good sense’. I was lucky enough to be born with it and even luckier to be able to conserve it.
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#87 We do some things, we ban substances that are a large part of the obesity problem in the US. It isn’t enough though.
I suspect that much of today’s attitude is due to the media jumping on any chance to give people a ‘valid excuse’ for their weight. Unfortunately the truth behind these reports is not always fully understood by those reading the articles. This is most commonly seen with the ‘it’s my genes’ excuse. To many people “it’s my genes” means “there’s nothing I can do about it”, and that’s not the case at all. The article might even say this, but it will be tagged on as an after thought.
Unfortunately obesity alone is often not enough of a reason for someone to see their GP, so their GPs won’t even know they are obese until some other condition causes them to visit. Some may see a nurse or midwife but if the visit is not about a weight-related problem then staff will most likely avoid raising the issue of the person’s weight. Who can blame them, they risk all sorts of reactions.
So in the meantime people get heavier and heavier and no-one dares say anything about their weight. Yet medical professionals need to be able to ask people about their weight and offer help without worrying that they are going to offend that person. The sooner someone’s weight problem is tackled the easier it is for everyone.
Mad Foetus is right, you refuse to let your weight go above a certain level. Once you’re not managing to maintain that (while genuinely trying) ask for help!
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#86 Two wrongs… and all that. I get your point though. Maybe allow the States to tax fat-laden foods and put those taxes directly towards providing help (and thorough education) to obese people? Unfair on the rest of us really, but if it’s what it takes…
The more obesity there is around us the more skewed our perception of a healthy weight becomes, it explains why so many people think they are a perfectly safe weight, and why society will only continue to get heavier and heavier.
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“It just seems to be a shame to laugh at anybody.”
No, it isn’t a shame, it’s a priviledge, a triumph of the human spirit. We should laugh at fat people. We should laugh at thin people. We should laugh at everyone. We should especially laugh at ourselves. We should be much slower to take offence and much quicker to offend. Because only by offending and being offended do we actually ever question our assumptions.
Humans are flawed and absurd and very, funny. We are also all tragic. So we have a choice of either denying reality (as most of us do most of the time), crying at everything or laughing at everything. I know what I would sooner do.
We are much closer to pigs than we are to angels and we’d do well to remember it. Fatties, shape up!
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To all anti fat people on the good Island of Jersey why do you hate anything or anyone who is not seen as “normal”? Where is your tolerance?
I have struggled all of my life with my weight, I have been 11 stone over weight and have lost it all only to pile it all back on again twice! I am now, at nearly 50 years old, getting the help I need through using a slimming club group. The only way I will be able to maintain my weight loss, 100 pounds now, will be to go to the meetings for the rest of my life. I have support of the group leader and the other group members who have all struggled throughout their lives with food and weight issues.
I am one of the lucky ones, I have found something which works for me and I can incorporate it into my life without too much problem. But what works for me does not necessarily work for everyone – we are all different.
I am not poor, I am well educated, but I am addicted to food. As we all know we need food to live, (unlike smoking and drinking alcohol) getting the food intake balance right and coping with negative thoughts about self image is a real challenge. Please take it from one who knows only too well – fat people hate being fat and feel embarrassed constantly about their size. For example flying is a traumatic experience for a fat person – trying to squeeze into the seats and then struggling with the safety belt, the horror of not being able to do it up and having to ask the air crew for a belt extension, having to walk up the aisle to get to the loo and banging into people with your hips, getting filthy looks as you try and apologize to fellow passengers. Yes, it is inconvenient for the other passengers. There are lots of situations which are really hard for fat people – sitting in chairs – will it be big enough, buying clothes – no large sizes, going to a restaurant – will there be enough room to sit at the table comfortably. Just a few of the enormous problems fat people have to endure everyday. If it was a simple case of just eating less they could do it, butit is not as easy as that, there are lots of underlying problems that make a fat person fat.
Please, try and be tolerant – and try and think what it is like for the fat person and what in their life has gone so wrong for them to be in that position.
Positive help like good food education, tax free healthy foods e.g. vegetables, fruit etc (put higher tax on high fat and salt takeaways which are bad for everyone whatever size you are) – advice, support and encouragement. And, of course, understanding and tolerance of a fellow human.
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Quote @91:
“We are much closer to pigs than we are to angels and we’d do well to remember it”. Well, you speak for yourself mate! And as for us all being worthy of mirth, I suggest that we direct our laughter now to those who purport to be associated with the legal profession! Would be jurists shape up!!
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Every fat person I ever met eats too much unhealthy food and does not exercise enough to burn off the excess calories. Any other reasoning or argument is complete tosh.
Stop making excuses and expecting sympathy fatty.
You have a choice but it will involve willpower but I’m afraid that it doesnt taste anywhere near as nice as chocolate or crisps.
You are now becoming more of a burden on the Health Service and I think its time your personal pride kicked in and you got your head out of the biscuit tin and your ass off your couch !!
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Comment 92 ex Jersey Girl, excellent post highlighting the real issues that overweight people face, good for you in finding a way that works for you to reduce your weight.
As can clearly be seen from the comments on this thread, there is little sympathy for overweight people bases mostly on the simplistic view that they chose to eat the food, obviously it is more complicated than that.
People are overweight for a wide variety of reasons beyond the obvious too many calories not enough burnt off equation, many have an addiction to food, others simply do not know what good diet is. I know a young lady who lived with us, she was very overweight and in her early 20′s. Desperately unhappy but she genuinely did not know why she was overweight. She would skip meals and eat snacks, I cleaned her room once and the bin was overflowing with biscuit packets, chocolate wrappers, cake packets, crisp packets, she was simply eating all the wrong food, I didn’t have the heart to tell nher because it was such a sensitive subject. When I met her family they were all very overweight and I doubt she had ever been taught how to eat properly.
I don’t think I fully understood the predjudice that overweight people faced until I read this thread. I’ve been overweight myself when I was younger, I thankfully managed to lose the weight and keep it off, well as I get older a few pounds creep on but nothing serious.
I think that those who are overweight have a responsibility for their condition in the same way a drinker or smoker does but it’s not as simple as being greedy “with the pies” as some have suggested. Their responsibility is to understand their addiction and seek appropriate help.
Meantime we could do a lot worse than not condemn them, we could even encourage.
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“I cleaned her room once and the bin was overflowing with biscuit packets, chocolate wrappers, cake packets, crisp packet…. it’s not as simple as being greedy “with the pies” as some have suggested.”
Well, it would seem to be that simple, wouldn’t it? As I commented earlier, it is either tragic or comic.
Presumably murderers are all nice people who just can’t control themselves or don’t realise that murder is wrong?
Let’s get this straight: Being fat is not an addiction. It is the product of a bad habit. Which is good for everyone, because it means it can be fixed.
Those who claim to be sympathetic to fat people paint them as helpless victims. I don’t think they are: I think they
have the potential to be strong role models.
2 years in the army would sort them out.
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Why do those of us who can be bothered to look after ourselves get punished by paying taxes to fund those with self-inflicted health problems! These people are the ones straining the economy, spend the money on people who deserve it!
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Mad Feotus – “Presumably murderers are all nice people who just can’t control themselves or don’t realise that murder is wrong?”
Murderers harm others not themselves, hardly a fair comparison.
“Let’s get this straight: Being fat is not an addiction. It is the product of a bad habit”
On the contrary being fat may well be as a result of an addiction to food, likewise it may be due to poor food education, the reasons are varied and complex.
“2 years in the army would sort them out”
I don’t doubt that by your definition a bullet would sort them out, mind you 2 years in the army at present amounts to much the same thing.
People are overweight for a great many reasons beyond the obvious overconsumption of calories, to simplify it to your level is to reduce the complexity of the human personality.
People are far more complex than you would have us beleive, or perhaps you have reduced them to a level you can understand.
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Well this is a highly charged debate, thinnies in one corner and fatties in the other three!!!
i am sorry (not really), but i simply cannot abide the “its not my fault i`m larger than the ambulance doors” mentality, all these fatties who blame everything except themselves for their predicament, “its not because i EAT to much that i weigh more than a hippo with elephantiasis, its because of my genes / depression / metabolism / there was a solar flare when i was conceived / the whales were sad when i was born” circle the applicable fatty and cry me a river… well you wouldn`t swim it would you!
i`m sorry (not really), but the facts are, you burn more than you consume, you lose weight, i don`t like this any more than the next person, but there it is. Until they invent the fat burning pill you need to get up off the sofa and exercise and stop treating the salad section like its made of radioactive material….. Actually, i probably shouldn`t of mentioned a fat burning pill, some of the deluded posters on this forum will probably take it as a green light to order chips with their morning coffee as “i`ve heard the government will release the fat burning pill in 6 months time so, yes, i will have another main course thankyou”.
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mad foetus 96.
Re your comment: “Presumably murderers are all nice people who just can’t control themselves or don’t realise that murder is wrong?”
Apparently not! According to major studies, murderers know that murder is wrong, but unfortunately, they lack empathy and are totally unsympathetic and insensitive towards the feelings of others.
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“Re your comment: “Presumably murderers are all nice people who just can’t control themselves or don’t realise that murder is wrong?”
Apparently not! According to major studies, murderers know that murder is wrong, but unfortunately, they lack empathy and are totally unsympathetic and insensitive towards the feelings of others.”
Hmm, let’s think about that…
According to major studies, fat people know that eating food will make them fatter, but unfortunately, they lack self-control and are totally insensitive to the feelings of others, and indeed expect others to rebuild hospitals and buy new ambulances to recognise this fact.
C’mon folks – how fat do you have to be for a new ambulance to be required. What a waste of tax money. You lot should be ashamed of defending the indefensible.
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Oh, Mr Le Quesne.
2 years in the army would sort them out. Most overweight people are bone idle. Obviously from your perspective the reason why they are bone idle is, as the wise “baz” surmises, environmental. They sit down and watch TV with a family bag of biscuits because they didn’t get enough parental attention, or they haven’t been properly educated, or they are sensitive and eat as a defence mechanism.
Well, 2 years of being woken up at the crack of dawn and made to look presentable, of working hard and keeping fit and being told that “I just don’t feel like it” is no excuse for anything, would sort these people out.
All they lack is discipline. It is a crying shame that they are left to get to the size where they can deform rear axles before they are given help, but the help they need is simply explained: it isn’t sympathy, it’s self-control.
As for addiction to food, I just don’t buy it. I’ve done smack and I can see how you get addicted to that. I’ve smoked and I can see how you get addicted to that. But food? Every needs to eat, everyone is on some level addicted to food. But your version of food addiction turns out to mean sitting on the sofa watching the TV all the time. Which to me, isn’t food addiction at all.
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Mad Feotus there are 2 types of addiction – physical ( cigarettes, heroin, alcohol ) and psychcologogical ( food, exercise, extreme dieteing as in anorexics or don’t you beleive they exist ) even some drugs have no physical addictive qualities but are psychoclogically addictive ( cannabis )
You wouldn’t need to spend much time researching to find that psychological addiction is a reality. I’m not saying these people can’t remedy their addiction and I don’t doubt that your 2 years in the army would work, as would locking them up, it’s just an extreme and spiteful measure.
I’ve lost a large amount of weight and managed to keep it off, my life is now the opposite of what it was. I walk 2 hours a day, don’t drink and eat healthily and I love it. But if you had told me I would enjoy this lifestyle more than my previous sedantry one back in the day, I wouldn’t have beleived you.
People need to change their habits and seek help for their addictions, for many this is as simple as attending Weight Watchers and changing their diet, they don’t need to starve or go hungry, just eat differently.
Slagging them off is helping nobody, what do you think they feel when they read some of the vitriolic comments on this forum. It doesn’t motivate them to head to the gym I can tell you that.
Let he who has no sin cast the first stone.
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mad foetus 101.
The only thing I’m ashamed of is the ‘lack of empathetic attunement’ shown on this thread.
I am not defending addicts (whether they be smokers, alcoholics, compulsive eaters/spenders, drug addicts or even gamblers), I’m defending the right to non-discriminatory health care for pathologies generated by a combination of biological, psychological and/or environmental causes.
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“I’m defending the right to non-discriminatory health care”
Does that mean everyone gets the same healthcare? Are you are now saying that we shouldn’t buy special ambulances for the morbidly obese? Or is discrimination alright as long as it is in favour of one particular group?
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mad foetus 105.
I used the term “non-discriminatory healthcare” (meaning: not biased against a particular group), therefore, it is obvious that I believe everyone should have an equitable and non-discriminatory access to the same quality of healthcare…no matter what their condition or ailment.
Regarding the oversized Ambulances, in my opinion, they are simply vehicles which make life easier for the ambulance crews and hospital staff and do not solve the problem of obesity. This serious disorder is often related to socioeconomic status…in other words ‘poorness’, a problem which cannot be solved by a fleet of ambulances. However, I see nothing wrong with the purchase of special vehicles/machines, if they assists hospital staff in their work.
As for your last question:
“Or is discrimination alright as long as it in favour of one particular group?”
I cannot see how caring for one particular group automatically discriminates against another.
And if you think it does, then Maternity and Nursery wards discriminate in favour of women who are capable of having children and against those who cannot and so on and so forth.
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