‘Boy racers’ make lives a misery
Wednesday 27th January 2010, 2:58PM GMT.
Deputy Pitman talks to residents of the Albert Place apartments about the young drivers’ behaviour in the area Picture: MATTHEW HOTTON (00876751)
FED-UP Waterfront residents are pleading with the States and the police to put the brakes on ‘boy racers’ making their lives a misery with their anti-social behaviour.
Every night around 40 cars and 20 motorbikes driven by teenagers and young men are racing, skidding, honking horns, flashing lights and blaring loud music around the Albert Place apartments.
Residents say that their lives have been turned into ‘a living nightmare’ by the young nuisance drivers using the area around the Lifeboat Café.
More than 100 complaints have been made and many residents are even threatening to sell up and move out. St Helier Deputy Trevor Pitman wants the police and the States to put a stop to it. ‘Someone is going to be killed,’ he said. ‘They are making people’s lives a misery.’
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“Life enriching”??? Cant wait to get out of this hell hole.You cant even walk down the street any time of the day without being intimidated by these inbreds. Where are the Police???
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In line with the normal States policy I think a slap on the wrist is now overdue!
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They do this all over the island, but no one seems to want to do anything about it.
They also throw their beer cans, bottles and takeaway food containers out of the car windows littering the country side. More police patrols and howabout speed cameras?
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There not all just boy racers, some are in there mid fourties ive seen them. I have a Subaru STI and they give people who drive cars like this a bad name, you do get funny looks because of being tainted with the same brush.
Im not that sad to meet up in public/ private places and speed around like a fool and upset people, I drive in a respectful way and think of others around me.
I used to drive every now and again a little bit faster when i was younger but we all do, no one can say they didnt, for some reason the older you get the slower you drive, by the time your in your seventees your going at 15 mph rather than 40.
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Have to agree. I have been in the car park at night and have witnessed the boy racers trying to impress their equally pimply faced friends.
Whats with the desire to put neon lights and a spolier onto a 20 year old Vauxhall Nova ?
Let the unpaid plod spend a few evenings down there. Half a dozen large fines dished out will pay for some hefty speed bumps.
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It always struck me as a great idea to build social/1st time buyer housing on such a prestige site…and now there’s surprise at the side-effects???
Jersey – where you can’t build a £5-million house on the coast, but you can have a council flat on the waterfront!?!?
Such an ironically inverted socialist planning policy for an island that survives/thrives on the fruits of the off-shore finance industry.
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Thats strange. dandara hasn’t mentioned that in their castle quay advert. SNAFU!!
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In England and Wales under Section 59 Police Reform Act 2002, a Police Officer may serve a notice on the driver of a motor vehicle where he / she has reasonable grounds to believe that the driver is causing or is likely to cause alarm and distress or annoyance to members of the public.
If within 12 months of the service of the notice the driver is caught committing a similar act, the police can seize the vehicle.
Deputy Pitman would do well to read this legislation to see if a similar law could be introduced in Jersey. That would put an end to this tomfoolery……as an alterntive the cops could look at telling the drivers to move on and if they refuse they could be dealt with for obstructing the police refusing to obey their instructions.(That is unless this common law power has been withdrawn).
What is needed is for the cops to pull their finger out and take robust action…..are they capable of doing that nowadays?
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I had no idea thanks for telling me, I’m off down there tonight for a race.
Do they have leagues for different classes of car, I’ve got an Evo 7 running 340 brake I must be in with a chance.
Really no cops, that’s it I’m texting everyone to come along.
Later dudes
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Fubar (comment 7)Exactly what I was just having a giggle about!
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When the first residents of the waterfront development moved in, they complained about the noise from the boats in the harbour. Now they complain about the traffic. I would suggest that the developers only complied with the minimum requirement for sound proofing and that this is a contributing factor.
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Blue Knight, we really do not need more legislation, especially anything as draconian as the section that you have quoted “…likely to cause alarm and distress or annoyance”.
I would rather put up with idiots in ridiculous cars than live in a society where one risks having one’s vehicle seized on the grounds that music was played at a volume that a police officer has decided may cause annoyance to members of the public.
As we have an ageing population, the risk of causing annoyance is very likely to increase.
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C.P. # 12. The problem is that anti-social behaviour like that desribed in the above article does cause people a lot of stress. I don’t believe the police powers under Section 59 of the Police Reform Act 2002 are as draconian as you suggest, if used under strict guidelines.
There is not only the public nuisance element, but also a health and safety issue. Fast driving, doing wheelies, skidding etc., has the potential to result in a collision and cause injury, or even worse. I am certain that not even you would like to see that occur.
I also can’t believe you’d like a disturbance outside your home on a regular basis. You’d soon become annoyed if you can’t watch your television in peace, listen to your stereo or couldn’t get some well earned sleep.
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Paper blowing down the street…………where are the Police. My car had its window broken(when I left my i-pod on the dash)………..where are the Police. My 14yr old son came home drunk(when I did not know where he was)……………where are the Police. Boy racers making noise etc…………where are the Police. I tell you were those poor buggers are – they are running around being strectched to the hilt dealing with petty nonsense as demanded by such folk as yes YOU who put such comments as “where are the Police” to evey situation that rears it head. I for one would not do the job they do – they do untold good day in and out that never gets mentioned. Put a barrier in place and lets not stretch our already over stretched Police force. On a leaving shot and partly as I would like a giggle………….where do you think they are(the Police that is).
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I’m a waterfront resident and regularly hear the boy racer brigade squealing round the roundabout and down to and from the pier past the customs building. These aren’t residents, as implied by #6, these are just kids who seem to like to congregate down there, just like they do by the burger bar at the end of the avenue and other places.
I’ve personally got no objection to anyone meeting and socialising on the pier, but some consideration for local residents and the 20mph speed limit wouldn’t go amiss.
To state that “someone is going to be killed” is just nonsense though, and I’d have to say I don’t think the problem is nearly as bad as this report seems to imply.
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I live at Albert Place and i regularly see and hear cars. I used to live on Rozel pier and i still heard cars at night. Did i tell you, I can also hear the wind at night!!! Maybe we could ban cars or even ban people altogether from entering the Waterfront after dark??
Or maybe our ‘amazing’ honourary police force could spend the odd evening at the Waterfront, rather than setting up speed traps from outside their houses.
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Would it really take much for the Police just to put a stop to this? If it’s as regular as is reported it shouldn’t be hard to catch them; and seeing as the area sounds like it would come under the harbour master’s jurisdiction, and I believe he’s the same powers as a Centenier so could deal out a Parish Hall Sanction there and then, or send them straight to court.
There’s certainly no need for any extra legislation, just have those already employed to keep the peace to actually do their jobs; or if the problem is that this racing is on private roads in the area, the residents should just take the matter up in a civil action.
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@ S Le Fevre #14
I agree with your sentiment that people trot out the ‘where are the Police?’ to often to nonsense, but:
“…I for one would not do the job…”
trouble is they don’t do their jobs either, for the most part.
“…Put a barrier in place…”
A line that is also used far too much. No, don’t erect a barrier, why is the responsibility of combating anti-social behaviour always put to the victim to stop? I don’t want to see restrictions on the innocent just to stop the criminals, better to make the criminals stop through proper enforcement of the present laws.
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We better ban all cars because they are causing a disturbance everywhere!!!
Then remove all the people because they cause a disturbance.
When do you stop?
Yes move it onto someone else. good idea.
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@14 S L Fevre
I’ll tell you where the police are!
I was walking along King Street a couple of weeks ago on rather windy and rainy day when and elderly woman’s umbrella blew inside out, along came FIVE policemen to the rescue of the windblown women. It took all FIVE policemen, it must of been a good 2-3 minutes to help her fix her umbrella.
This could not sum up the Jersey police any better!
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We should take a leaf out of Sarks book – I would pay to see a boy racer try and wheel burn around the roundabout by where you lot live in a tractor or horse and cart!
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@ GK #19
“…When do you stop?…”
When the problem is eliminated; doesn’t seem to be a terrible difficult concept, surely?
“…We better ban all cars…”
No, that’s just you being stupid; not all cars cause a significant disturbance, you have to approach it reasonably.
If I make a fist with my hand, I am not causing a disturbance, am doing nothing wrong, the Police(or anybody) should not make any call for action to stop me.
Now if I make a fist with my hand, and punch you in the face, it may be deemed as unreasonable, and I think that as a society we should have a right to take action.
Do you not see the difference?
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S Le Fevre # 14. Please don’t try and fool someone who has fooled thousands. The question on where or what the police are doing, is a regular theme on the J.E.P.s discussion board and yet there is little official response from the Chief Officer or his Deputy.
If there aren’t sufficient officers on patrol and they are being pushed from pillar to post,going from job to job, then it is down to the supervisors and managers (Sergeants and Inspectors) to speak to their senior managers (Chief Inspectors, Superintendent, Deputy Chief and Chief Officer)to get more staff on basic policing duties – that is what the public want to see. The police used to be called omnicompetent.
How about doing a ‘blitz’ type operation, involving the Honorary Police. The offender’s vehicles could be stopped and the drivers checked for insurance or their vehicles get checked for defects.They’d soon get fed up being continually stopped. Doing nothing shouldn’t be an option.(Now let’s wait for the
repost from those who think such action impacts on human rights).
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Truth is the cops have a responsibility to stop this….100 complaints!!!…they’re clearly not doing the job and we are still paying millions for the service…not good enough,,they seem to have plenty of time for soft targets,like the average driver with perhaps a winker not working properly.
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They do it in car parks as well. Confiscate their cars, take their licences.
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Blue Knight #8
I tend to agree with cp12 the problem of a few boy racers does not warrant such as Section 59 powers being enacted, a sledge hammer to crack a nut.
This is not an “inner city” sink, “no go” area where stolen cars are regularly burnt out, its an area where youngsters congregate and talk “cars”. I have spoken to some of them and they told me, an old git that I am, a few things I did not know about modern motor engineering, especially the bits about emissions!
There are a few who appear to going over the top and this needs to be approached, as you say Words of advice and a lawful “move on” or you are obstructing an officer should suffice, this common law power has NOT been withdrawn.
Its a bit difficult for the boys in blue as 95% of the drivers are law abiding. Its the remaining 5% that the coppers need to be there when they are performing to catch, very difficult unless a unit is posted there 24/7.
As Mike #15 says (and he’s a man on the spot)”To state that “someone is going to be killed” is just nonsense though, and I’d have to say I don’t think the problem is nearly as bad as this report seems to imply.”
Probably the best action would be to put it in the beat book as a hotspot and do a few regular high profile cruise pasts.
To me its just Deputy Pitman trying avert attention from his recent failures in trying to understand how to distinguish between yobs and our usually law abiding youth.
I for one am not biting.
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I really do think the residents of the Waterfront apartments should just move on and deal with the fact that there is absolutly NOWHERE else for the youth of the Island to socialise and meet. The harbour is the only place where people can meet, decide what they are doing with themselves, catch up on gossip or just sit there talking, likewise with the burger bar, Roberts and various other car parks. You don’t hear the owners of houses near those places complaining of noise pollution. In some respect yes there are a select few who think it’s big to speed up and down the harbour but for the majority of people who just go down there purely as a place to meet friends, where’s the harm in that???
The idea of erecting a barrier that closes at night won’t solve the issue, it’ll just move the problem somewhere else and the police will have to waste their time dealing with it, where’s the sense in that??? You can’t just go around putting ruddy barriers everywhere to stop people who drive from socialising.
To cut a long story short i think the residents should just turn the volume up on their 50 inch HD plasma TVs and stop making a mountain out of a mole hill….
Rant over!
Regards
AK
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Blue Knight.
I do not think that Section 59 of the Police Reform Act 2002 is particularly draconian either. However neither do I think it is required as there are plenty of laws to deal with these situations already.
There are cameras on site which can record reg plates. We also have traffic radar that produces a smile or frown depending on our speed. It would not be rocket science to join the dots. Speed cameras in the UK do just that.
ID the vehicle
ID the speed
As for wheelies, wheel spins, handbrake turns and doughnuts etc, current dangerous/careless driving laws apply to driving below the standard of an reasonable driver, viewed objectively.
What is needed is a plan, not more laws.
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Blue Knight#23
I will tell you what the police are doing.
Exactly what you are suggesting except the part where you suggest they bully decent law abiding motorists “How about doing a ‘blitz’ type operation” this type of operation can only mean harassing all, guilty or innocent .
I don’t know how long you have been retired but nowadays the police are answerable for harassing innocent motorists.
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This is a simple fix, if one of the residents filmed the boy racer’s in action, preferably doing illegal handbrake turns, skidding or racing. Then submitted the film to Channel TV who I’m sure would be happy to show it, then the police would be shamed into action as islanders would be appalled.
Not rocket science is it?
To be honest I’m more concerned with the lunatics who daily overtake me on the underpass at speeds in excess of 40MPH. There used to be motorcycle cops above the underpass to prevent precisely this. What is needed to stop this is the installation of speed cameras without any announcement, then after a week everyone caught is summoned to an enquiry, Fort Regent as venue as S.H Parish hall wouldn’t be big enough, then all are cautioned and fined as they would be at a parish hall enquiry. Ideally if they can be given an appointment time and not be seen until 2 hours later ( as is normal practice for PH enquiries ) this humiliation in addition to the fine would act as a deterrant, the JEP could then publish the story listing the number ( hundreds no doubt ) caught speeding and advise that cameras and fines were now in place.
Again simple and a nice little earner.
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THIS ISN’T NEWS!!
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@ K!lB0tH£@d #
“…deal with the fact that there is absolutly NOWHERE else for the youth of the Island to socialise and meet…”
Absolute and utter rubbish!
“…stop people who drive from socialising…”
Nobody’s trying to stop anybody socilising, even those that might advocate barriers aren’t; people are asking for the exact opposite, they want people to be more social.
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@ Joe Average #30
“…everyone caught is summoned to an enquiry, Fort Regent as venue as S.H Parish hall wouldn’t be big enough, then all are cautioned and fined as they would be at a parish hall enquiry. Ideally if they can be given an appointment time and not be seen until 2 hours later ( as is normal practice for PH enquiries )…”
It’s not rocket science, but neither is it that simple; you can’t summons anybody to a Parish Hall Enquiry.
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S Le Fevre # 14
Your 14yr old son came home drunk, didn’t happen to be in Grouville by any chance?
I find # 3 quite funny, more speed checks and speed cameras. What is the main comment people say about the police “too many speed checks”. The poor sods can not win.
Maybe people that feel strongly about the above should pop to their Parish Hall, and ask to give some of their time to join our unsung heroes the Honorary police service. They are always crying out for people and you might be surprised how busy they are on a Friday night and why they can not be everywhere.
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Joe average,
Good idea lets film the racers skidding around. Oh dam no can do, it is illegal to film someone with out their knowledge.
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I dont mind if im stopped by the honouries or whatever,its the blind eye turned to people gassing on there mobiles while looking the other way that annoys me.
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#35. CKH
You are completely wrong:
I started legal action against a ‘well known Jersey night club’ after a bouncer deleted images off my camera-phone after I took a picture of him when he had a bottle of beer in his hand outside the club, however he also deleted other images because he didn’t know how to operate the device. The nightclub settled out of court and the law says that provided the photographer is either on private land owned by him or he has permission of the owner or he is on public property and not causing any obstruction then it is not, in any way illegal to take pictures in a public place in the UK, irrespective of what is going on.
The important bit there is: IRRESPECTIVE of what is going on!
Police Officers or any member of the public have no powers to demand you to stop taking pictures or filming & forcible deletion or removal of images is an assault punishable by way of a fine or prison.
UK Law states that the copyright of any images be them moving or still remain with the photographer and therefore you do not need to ask anyones permission prior or post taking them.
!! Get video evidence and the police will act! I advised an old farmer friend to do this last year when his next door neighbour was being constantly rude and offensive to him and the honorary police accepted the video and took matters up with the neighbour !! Problem sorted.
Once one or two are seen on video the police will need to increase patrols in the area and will drive the offenders elsewhere.
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CKH 34
“Good idea lets film the racers skidding around. Oh dam no can do, it is illegal to film someone with out their knowledge.”
Thanks Jerseyman no 1 I knew I was right, otherwise how do you explain the pictures on CTV of crowds in King Street, do they ask everyone first?
33 L Jamborrai – you can’t summons anybody to a Parish Hall Enquiry.
Don’t recall saying you could but you can be summoned by a letter as I was – summons “a request to appear” Webster’s English dictionary.
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i belive the police have been given car details and pictures but still do not police this area to the degree needed.i wonder what would happen if this was out side mr crowcrofts door!???
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PJG # 29. I take umbrage at your suggestion my plan for a police operation, to target anti-social driving, would involve harassing innocent motorists. The aim would be only to tackle those who are speeding, doing hand brake turns, skidding, playing loud music etc.
If the States Police won’t do it, maybe the Honorary Police could do something about the problem – they should be easily capable of dealing with such issues.
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Jerseyman_no.1
You say “Once one or two are seen on video the police will need to increase patrols in the area and will drive the offenders elsewhere”.
This doesn’t solve the problem it just moves it onto someone else’s doostep.
These culprits should be punished for anti-social behaviour at the very least along with other traffic offences and maybe have their licences taken away!
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14 S Le Fevre
Considering that Jersey is meant to have one of the largest police forces in Europe per head of population then i do not buy into them being overstretched.
As I have said before, to see a plod on patrol is a rarity these days. In my youth they were everywhere and there were plentiful traffic police too. For god’s sake I was reprimanded by a patrol car once for cycling to school with my hands off the handlebar!!
I see many traffic “crimes” committed everyday but there is no deterrent so they will continue until perhaps someone is killed.
There are plenty of “hotspots” which the police know about but seem to do little about too.
The only time I hear of any significant police action is when they seem to overreact to an incident such as the armed presence for someone throwing an egg!
No doubtedly they do “some” good work which we do not see or hear about, but we the taxpayer are paying for them to protect and serve us (using the US motto) and we need to see their presence to at least deter crime if nothing else.
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@ Joe Average #38
“…Don’t recall saying you could…”
Fair enough, I took your use of ‘summoned’ to imply the use of the word in the legal sense, rather than purely linguistic.
But my point still stands, you can invite people to the PHE, but they don’t have to go, and then you have to ask yourself whether it’s really in the public interest to spend the resources of the court system on such (relatively) trivial matters.
We need to introduce a ticketing system for minor offences such as speeding, littering etc. etc. so the Police can issue a fixed penalty and avoid the waste that is the majority of PHEs and many court appearances.
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Looks like they will errect a barrier to stop them as harbours will not need planning a step in the right direction after all if you want to go fishing etc down there they wont stop you.
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A little levity: Policeman catches Boy racer,says Aha I’ve been waiting for you..boy says,Well I drove as fast as I could.
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Police on the beat?…. Yeah right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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So, innocent motorists who want to go and park up for a while in pleasant surroundings, eat some takeaway in the car etc, will be unable to drive down there when there’s a barrier?
All because the police can’t be bothered to check the area now and then?
Why does this island keep getting worse?
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@ BS Deluxe #42
“…i do not buy into them being overstretched…”
They are though, one Sunday not so long ago there was less than 4 Police officers patrolling the whole island.
However I think it’s in no small part down to bad management of their resorces, and simply bad policing in general.
The SoJ Police are overpaid compared to other forces and professions, and we don’t get the services we should expect for that money.
And due to Lennie Harper’s antics over the last year or so I note that there’s been no picture in the JEP this year of the latest intake. I’m told this years intake was cancelled due to lack of funds.
It’ll take top down change to the attitude of the force to improve policing in Jersey, and thankfully being rid of that liability Harper may now allow this to happen.
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If you modify your car this generally affects your insurance, usually increasing the premiums.
How many of these little chavs have updated their insurance – if not and they hit your car they may be uninsured – just what you want.
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bruce #31
Mate we in jersey, this is BIG NEWS!!!
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#27 They would have places to hang out if they were welcome in their own homes, which presumably they might be if they weren’t such a bunch of losers!
How come plenty of us managed to grow up without causing a disturbance to others? We didn’t have anything more to do than kids now.
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OLD NEWS!!! This has been going on for years! What’s the problem!!? Burger bar, Waterfront, Le Braye… so what… how many people have been killed from kids doing this in the past?? Bet not many if any. In fact I bet their own cars have ended up the only victims of this behaviour!
Mike I like your attitude.
Live and let live. If you don’t like it MOVE HOUSE. The majority of these kids are hurting no-one. They aren’t doing drugs and drinking… they are doing what kids do..enjoying themselves. Big wows
And be glad that’s all you have to deal with.
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And are these the same fools who were moaning about the clanking from the boats at night when they first moved in?? Makes you laugh! Get a grip
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HAHAHA Living Nightmare?? You gotta be kidding! HOW OTT!!!
Maybe when you residents decided to live down the harbour you would have thought to investigate what the area is like before you moved there. After all, you’re living next to the docks!! A PUBLIC AREA. If you want piece and quiet. Go buy/rent somewhere in a PRIVATE location.
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#52 They may not be able to move because of a stagnant market, not that they should have to. Those who belittle the effects of noise pollution really ought to study medicine and cross their fingers that they are never a victim of it! It causes genuine mental distress and that leads to physical illness… once that has happened removing the cause and attending to the mental health needs still doesn’t always manage to reverse the phsyical illness.
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#4 My friend’s dad found the best answer to such a disturbance. He challenged the kids that he could do anything they could do in their car but better, the kids couldn’t refuse and let him have a go. Didn’t mention being an ex race driver of course.
Being totally humiliated in front of their girls by an old guy that just looked like your average suit was punishment enough
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CMC # 52
You say how many have been killed doing this. Bet not many if any.
1 life taken in this way is 1 life to many. But a lot of these young kids are driving far to quickly without the experience they need to control their cars so they end up crashing their cars. Do you remember the accident on Grouville hill about 2 years ago, they were speeding someone died.
Do you remember the 3 kids in a car by Maison Victor Hugo at Greve D’Azette who died when they crashed their car into a granite wall. they were speeding.
Now on the other side of the coin a police car speeding to a 999 call crashed by the carpark at greve d’azette killing the driver of the oncoming car. She’d only been married a short time too.
tell me that no one has died and I’ll bring up more cases. the above are just from my memory of the past 10-12 years.
Maybe raising the age limit to 21 for drivers is the solution to the problem. something needs to be done.
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48 J Lamborrari
We cannot continue to settle with the sub-standard service and protection we are currentky getting from the police force.
I know plenty of officers in the force. I went to school with a few and just know some from younger days out on the town…..I raised my eyebrows when I first saw them in uniform. All I can say is that the entry criteria must have relaxed significantly !!
Also, during the HdlG debacle many officers were overheard boasting about the easy money they were earning for all the overtime they were doing just guarding the building and it’s surrounding areas.
In my opinion, the SoJ have absolutely no interest in doing the job they are paid to do….pehaps because they may think it is beneath them to serve the public????
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CMC and JK44 # 53 & 54. You haven’t really contributed to the debate have you? Your comments are pretty churlish.
You have no idea why the residents rented or purchased their homes near the harbour and your views are pretty unkind. I just hope you don’t have to suffer from someone taking the ‘wee wee’ when you experience anti-social behaviour near your accommodation.
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#58 When working for a charity I opted to help with teaching people who had failed the initial SET. These were graduates hoping to take a place on the accelerated promotion scheme for graduates.
You will see just how warranted your concern is if you have a look at the SET. It’s basic literacy, numeracy and reading off data. I would confidently put a large wager on my 12-year old nephew passing it, possibly even the 8-year old. I think you can probably download a sample of the SET online if you want to have nightmares.
There are various courses now helping these young people (remember they have degrees already) to pass the SET, but you can still fail it and resit, if you fail again there’s a delay then you can re-apply! Should anyone who has failed such a basic test (even once) have the power that police officers have?
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We don’t need any more legislation, it is obvious that these people are breaking the law just by speeding around as they do! What we actually need is a new police force! Any idea what they do all day because I certainly have never seen one doing anything useful!
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I believe the airport is closed overnight – perhaps the runway could be opened up for them to play with their cars on. As many have said, shoo them away from the waterfront and they’ll congregate elsewhere so why not try to come up with solutions instead of trying to create more laws to ban it?
There’s a distinct lack of facilities in Jersey for young people, hence the reason they tend to congregate in large groups. For the rest of the island’s teenagers perhaps the fort could be used as a site for one big youth club which is opened after school til late evening daily? Projects such as the giant football pitch in people’s park have proved popular in the past which goes to show that if the facilities are provided they will be used…
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If you raise the age limit what will that achieve? Kids will still go through these stages just later than 17. Maybe a limit on the size engine allowed would be more appropriate like the old motorbike tests 50cc..125cc etc etc..
You will never stop this going on. If you move them on they will go to the next place. We aren’t talking about speeding on the roads..we all know that’s stupidity… we’re talking about kids congregating and disturbances.
It wouldn’t take much to move them on, just call the police and if they went out to where it was happening the crowd would soon disperse. Nothing’s much fun when the cops are watching nearby eh.
I find it hard to see how there is so much fuss over this when it really has been going on for years…it’s nothing new. I’m sure if the police could change it they would but they probably know the same thing…if you move them on they will just go to the next place…cat & mouse.
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Have the police not thought about a mobile early response unit?
This way they could have a temporary presence in known hot spots until the problems disappear.
Just a thought.
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These so called “racers” should be restricted to driving Renaualt 4s. With a blistering 34 bhp on tap from its 845cc, wet liner engine, it was the ideal car for tearaways. Earlier versions produced even less power from a 747 cc engine and three speed gearbox.
These cars also had the handbrake operative on the front wheels, thereby obviating any problem with “hand brake turns”. Alternatively, a Citroen Dyane, with 29 bhp from a 602 cc, two cylinder engine, might also be helpful. Again, earlier models were less powerful. The handbrake again operated on inboard front brakes.
Why not restrict drivers who are seen acting as “boy racers” to these models? The States could purchase a fleet for that very purpose.
Of course, a simpler answer might be for this known area to be properly policed. That is, naturally, far too simple to contemplate I feel.
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Aw leave ‘em young beans alone. The’re just local kids doing local things. I mean when you’re 18 and all you’ve ever done is cross this nerdy little place doing 45mph must seem like a night out on the north circular.
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More than 100 complaints have been made and many residents are even threatening to sell up and move out (taken from the article).
A friend of mine lives down there, she’d love to sell up and move out, she calls it ‘The Bronx’!
And as we all know, policing in the Bronx is no day at the beach, so maybe that’s why the ‘boys-in-blue’ give the place a miss.
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Born Warrior # 67. If what you are implying is correct, then I am ashamed for the cops. There should be no ‘No Go’ areas, even if is called the Bronx. I would imagine the police hierarchy monitor this discussion board – I would, as it is a good guage of public opinion – if they do read these submissions, then it should be a spur for them to do something positive, or explain why they can’t solve the problem.
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Aw, bless. Put them on the ferry to England and let them race around here. If the police don’t get them, the supercharged BMWs and Mondeos will around the M25. They won’t look so big and clever then.
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If I am not mistaken there are speed reducers called ‘sleeping policemen’ which can be cemented in measured distances around the area. Perhaps the residents on the watefront could put together a fund to pay for these to be installed.
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Blue knight#23 #40
I am sorry you have taken umbrage, but, and I quote you,
The offender’s vehicles could be stopped and the drivers checked for insurance or their vehicles get checked for defects. They’d soon get fed up being continually stopped”
If they are offenders and the police have enough evidence of this, they should stop them and have them charged with the offences they have committed. Your Blitz type operation of repeatedly stopping anyone who looks like they may become an offender can I.M.O.only be viewed as harassment.
If I have misinterpreted your suggestion, I would welcome your explanation of how this can be viewed differently.
I have personally been to the area and spoken to these “boy racers” (its handy living in the island, one can check out the facts before over reacting) They are a normal bunch of youngsters who like to congregate and discuss common interests (cars usually, sometimes the opposite sex) The area they mainly use is south of the lifeboat station, not exactly on anyone’s doorstep. There are a few who do a bit of rip roaring, but they are in the minority. The Harbour has an extensive coverage of CCTV that can also be viewed from the police control room, should not take much to target the culprits and leave the innocent alone.
Remember also the people who are doing the complaining are the same ones that moved into flats alongside the harbour and complained about the noise from the stay cables slapping the masts of the yachts.
On the whole these youngsters are well behaved. lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater and drive them into meeting in pubs !!
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As an aside.
If you really want to see engines revving, fast cornering, screeching tyres, highly powered specialist vehicles, driving into trailers, by drivers who have go all out because they have a deadline to meet.(the tide waits for no man)
Go watch the unloading of the Commodore Goodwill.
This is about the same distance away from the flats and is probably noisier.
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It seems from the above and the recent taxi rank story that most policemen are of the sleeping variety these days.
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Give it a rest,
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Have you seen some of these youngsters cars. They are fantastic – they obviously take great pride in these vehicles and spend a lot of time doing them up and polishing them putting finishing touches to them – like LED lighting. It’s a hobby and should be encouraged. Someone should start a youngsters vehicles club, where they can congregate and compare their pride and joys.
This hobby should be actively encouraged and channelled into a club. It is no different to the Sunday Motorbike convoy or indeed the sprints and Rallies.
Well done Kids – Enjoy your hobby.
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pjg(71)(72)could not agree more, they are just being young as we all were at one time, did not race about down there when i was young, as the were the harbour police in those days.we were out of town most of the time . as we become more overpopulated we appear to be becoming far less tolerant of one another.
where else is there for them to go???
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eeyore #57
The vast majority of fatal accidents over here in recent years have been through drink/drug impaired judgement (possibly leading to reckless speeding), inexperience, extreme bad luck, or mechanical failure.
I’m having a hard time remembering any fatality caused by a sober person enjoying their driving with full concentration regardless of possibly breaking an arbitary speed limit.
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75 – nice idea re the club, however, clubs tend to charge for membership etc, something many of these youngsters are unlikely to be willing to pay for, especially while they can congregate in areas such as the harbour. i’d imagine a lot of them would join the motorcycle and light car club otherwise…
like i mentioned in my earlier post, surely it’d be far better to find somewhere better for them to congregate, preferably private land where they can play with their toys without posing any danger to other members of the public.
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PJG (71+72) 7 David Brown (76)……yes they are all poor misunderstood little blighters. Give them a lollypop and pat them on the head.
The original news item said, “Every night around 40 cars and 20 motorbikes driven by teenagers and young men are racing, skidding, honking horns, flashing lights and blaring loud music around the Albert Place apartments.”
Deputy Pitman has received 100+ complaints and you two advocate tolerance. I wonder what you’d say if occurred outside your homes?
When I was in my late teens early twenties I was fighting for Queen and country (pull up a sand bag), not causing a nuisance on the streets. Zero tolerance and discipline is the answer.
PJG, you claim that when you had a look at the location in the evening, there was no problem. Does that mean the residents are mistaken? Or did you attend at the wrong time? 100 complainants says it all really.
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pjg as a resident in the area ill give you a shout next time it starts sorry if its 2 in the mornin!last weekend a couple of them were jumping on their car roofs they must really love those cars …
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I could walk into any built up location and get you 100 signed “complaints” from residents who have never seen/experienced the problem that is in question. Folk are fickle and will jump on the band wagon. And as for figures given out in “the press”……………do I need to mention anything regarding what is printed and what is fact can differ greatly depending on whose interest is best being served…………..but surely I dont need to point that out as we are all reasonable adults with enough experience under our belts to realise that.
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No. 75 I would have thought the five mile road in St Ouen would be an ideal place for racing. The first Saturday in every month could set aside. This would avoid any annoyance to anyone.
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Never mind these harmless and mostly law abiding youngsters. What does concern me at the harbour are these huge freight lorries being driven on public roads without brake lights and indicators. I thought the DVSD were supposed to monitor.
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Blue Knight #79
What a shame you can only make an assumption from what is being said here, nothing quite like going down there and seeing it for yourself, then, instead of making crass, knee jerk “lollipop” suggestions, and recommending SS type blanket responses that harass innocent motorists in an attempt to discourage a few OTT youngsters you could come up with some suggestions that actually match the problem.
There are 3 residents commenting on this thread. one (parish # 80) asks me to go there at 2 in the morning. ( I have been there at that time not so long ago)I fancy a bit of fishing tonight I will report on what I see then, tomorrow.
Two (Mike #15 & Jambo #16 )are taking the live and let live approach, saying its not “that” bad.
Perhaps that “says it all really”,
I actually think B Le M #81 “says it all really”.
No one is saying there is not a problem. What I am saying is lets not overreact, lets put it in perspective, Its definitely not a “no go area”, rod fishermen use the area, all night sometimes. I have not heard of any of them being intimidated, boat owners have access to the area 27/7 no complaints there either ? I have not heard of any burnt out wrecks of stolen cars, no reports of damaged or vandalised vehicles in the area, no reports of residents being verbally abused. Even Trevor Pitman could not find a “doughnut” burnt into the tarmac to have his picture taken alongside.(and do you think any politician could resist that sort of publicity if it were available ?). There is a small minority of those who congregate in the area acting irresponsibly. Lets target them.
The police have the mobile CCTV they use at events such as Jersey Live, There is also the harbour cameras, viewable and controllable 24/7 from the Rouge bullion Police Station, surely a covert operation over a week would record who is doing the deed and who are the minority who need bringing to book.
An operation of this kind would not involve great expense or manpower.
This is a small Island, from the registration numbers collected all the offenders could be visited next day and invited to attend a parish hall enquiry, If they decline the Parish hall Inquiry they will then be summoned to attend the Magistrates court.
Simple really isn’t it, only the offenders will be inconvenienced and no one will be giving our police officers Hitler salutes.
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Ya’Kwanza has bought a brand new Subaru. He wears a cycle helmet when doing his handbrake turn practice…
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mostly law abiding youngsters …………you are joking
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lol I have to laugh at this one well hello what did anyone expect ? tell you what open up the 5 mile road at certain times and let the youngsters race their cars along that safe and out of harms way then no one can say a word. At the end of the day we have ALL at some stage either been a CB’er or a Boy racer !! and where else have they got to go ? Burger ? Stones ? whats the harm in letting them prat around down the five mile road if they prang their cars well hey thats there problem and so what if the want to put lights and spoiler kits think yourselves lucky they are not putting bull bars in the front !!!!
Instead of complaining give them somewhere to go ………. Oh no forgot that would be a sensible thing to do and Jersey does not do that ! what out the old CB’er may just reform and the wolf man take the front door and lets CONVOY !!!!!!!
1.4 for a convoy !!!!
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B Le M #81 – Actually, it is 114 recorded complaints made to the Police over the past 12 months. These aren’t newspaper figures.
PJG # 71 & 72 – The key area here is actually the approach to the bend in the road which is right under residents’ windows and balconies. As Parish # 80 could likely tell you…
As for the comments about these people being the ‘same ones’ who complained about the noise of mast cables nothing could be further from the truth.
These are simply ordinary, hard working people who are paying good money to buy their properties and have every right to expect government and the relevant authorities to act against very unreasonable anti-social behaviour.
They have no wish to stop anyone enjoying the area peacefully, such as leisure fishermen, people walking the dog etc, even at 3am.
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@jsybean #86
“…At the end of the day we have ALL at some stage either been a CB’er or a Boy racer !!…”
Not me. I hate the argument ‘We were all young once, give the kids a break.’
Yes I was young, but I didn’t act like these selfish idiots.
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Why not do what they did with that other, unpoliced, area of public order and make the complainants pay?
When taxi ranks fell into disorder the poor old taxi drivers had to pay, even though their income tax should have paid for a police “service”.
Here, a resiential close has fallen into disorder. The precedent having been set, perhaps the householders should pay. I am joking, by the way, but it would not surprise me, particularly after the amazing taxi rank saga. If we are not getting public services like police then perhaps we should stop paying income tax. The authorities might take notice then.
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Paperwork or video in warm police station with cuppa tea or out in the cold challenging rowdy elements? Let me see. Which do you think is routinely chosen?
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#86 No we haven’t, stop making excuses for morons. If I want to race I go to Silverstone or Knockhill, public roads are not the place for it. Why can’t they go to their homes? Are they not welcome there? If not, I can guess why.
And why should taxpayers give them somewhere to go? No-one did that for us. And has it occured to them that by behaving this way they are definitely removing any opportunity that may have previously existed. You have to obey the law for people to give you a chance, at the moment (rightly) no-one is going to volunteer to give these folk anything to do other than community service.
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#86 If these guys want somewhere to go they can EARN it.
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Well I have been down the quay many times fishing day and night, I have seen a few kids in cars chatting I really cannot see what all the fuss is about.
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Deputy Trevor Pitman #87
I understand, and I agree the residents should be able to enjoy their properties without “constantly” being annoyed .
But, I am coming at this from 2 directions,not the blinkered one you apear to be adopting.
1 How much above the norm and how often is the noise pollution the residents are receiving ?
2 Why should the majority of youngsters who meet in this area suffer because a minority are being stupid (residents and drivers).
(1)There are 3 posts here from residents, Mike #15, Jambo #16 and Parish #80.
The first 2 don’t seem too annoyed and come across as live and let live.
The last tells you the only way to experience it is “ill give you a shout next time it starts sorry if its 2am”. That does not sound like constant “Every night around 40 cars and 20 motorbikes” annoyance to me. I made a point of walking the dog around the area last night 02/02/10, 6.30pm to 7.30pm then again (its a collie)at 10.30 to 11.30. On the first walk no cars north of the lifeboat station 3 to the south (one was a taxi driver taking a break).
2nd walk. none to the north 4 to the south (again one was a taxi driver having a rest break.
At no time did I see any driving that was not careful and considerate, surely taxi drivers know where to go for a peaceful break ?
Now lets put 114 complaints over 12 months into perspective “2 complaints a week” It would only take one person, so inclined, to make that amount of complaints, speak to the police there are a lot of people all over the island who can match or even exceed this amount of complaining about unsubstantiated goings on.
You are pictured above with 4 people, one complaint every 2 weeks each, would reach your figures, nowhere even near the “Every night around 40 cars and 20 motorbikes driven by teenagers and young men are racing, skidding, honking horns, flashing lights and blaring loud music around the Albert Place apartments” exaggeration !?
If you want to go down the statistic route, how many times have the police attended found a problem and made arrests ?
Have you, been there and witnessed when all this is supposed to be going on ?
Have you, seen any burnt out wrecks of stolen cars in the area.
Have you, seen any doughnuts burnt into the tarmac.
Have you, seen any evidence of alcohol fueled misbehaviour
Have you, seen any vehicles damaged in the area.
Have you, seen any police reports of vandalism or property damage in the area ?
Have you seen any police reports of injury in the area ?
(2)Have you, even been to the area and spoken to the supposed “Every night around 40 cars and 20 motorbikes driven by teenagers and young men are racing, skidding, honking horns, flashing lights and blaring loud music around the Albert Place apartments.”
Have you, as a supposed expert on youth tried to understand that all they want is a place to congregate and talk.
Have you, put any thought into where else they can go that is more suitable.
How about “you” serving all the people, these kids included.
Come up with an action that would rid the area of the minority that are being disruptive, and act as a mediator so the residents understand the kids and vice versa.
Try using your influence, as a Deputy, to get the police to target the small group of offenders and then get each group to understand and cooperate with each other.
Are you capable of this ?
Or will you put up a barrier and just move the problem elsewhere ?
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PJG # 95. You are becoming personal in your reposte to Deputy Pitman, yet you make one important point…”get the police to target the small group of offenders.”
I guess we are all going on anecdotal evidence and it is amazing that a spokesperson from the police hasn’t written in to respond to the original article.
Nobody wants to prevent others having harmless fun, but if – and I say if – there are those who speed in the area, do ‘doughnuts’ and handbrake turns etc., then I am sure you’d be the first to agree that preventative action should be taken. Putting a barrier up, or building speed bumps in the area may quicky solve the problem.
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I don’t see the problem with this. It’s only a few wheel spins and doughnuts! I know some old fogies don’t like it but if they actually saw one of my wheen spins, they’d change their minds.
The skill involved is (I must say so myself) extraordinary, where else am I supposed to pull these off? The five mile road? No thanks, it’s too far from town – and after a few wheel spins, you HAVE to do a few laps round town to check out the birds. They love all that.
In summary – I’ll wheel spin where I like. Well, certainly until my parents catch me doing it!
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PJG #95 From the sound of it I have clearly been down to the area rather more than you – your comments about burnt out/stolen cars etc indicate you are not even listening to the complaints the residents are talking about. But maybe, as Blue Knight seems to pick up on, your issue is really a personal one with me?
I have also always held the view that most young people are absolutely sound and do, indeed, just want to meet friends, hang-out etc and are no trouble at all. Equally I have also spent a large part of my working life promoting and supporting young people’s interests.
That doesn’t alter the fact that the bahaviour causing the residents problems is just not acceptable and cannot be ignored. As I have made clear, no-one wishes to exclude people who are not causing any problem whatsoever from the area – a key reason why the barrier would be staffed. The staff will fairly quickly get to recognise the individuals/vehicles causing the problems from those who don’t.
As for ‘trying to use my influence’ – working with residents, getting all relevant parties e.g. Harbours, Police, Minister, officers and residents themselves to work together to hammer out a solution that all think is appropriate and workable; similarly liasing with Youth Service and Parish etc to see if they could contribute to tackling the problems – that is exactly what I have been doing and will continue to do. To this regard I’m pleased to say the barrier idea is also now supported by the Home Affairs Minister as the most practical.
However, your point about trying to get the police to target those responsible I wholly agree with. This I have been doing and I have to say that I am not sufficiently satisfied with the action taken so far. As a consequence I am discussing the issue again with the Home Affairs Minister.This has also been flagged up at the newly formed Parish of St. Helier Policy Advisory Group which involves the police.
Finally, as for what I have to say is your rather sad comments about trying to find doughnuts to be pictured by… The truth is that working with the residents we have tried to keep this matter out of the media over a number of months. This being in the hope that it could eventually be resolved without drawing any more attention to what was going on.
The residents only decided to change this approach as a last resort after Deputy Power made it a very public one. This being via a very ill-informed interview relating to the planning application for the barrier where it was claimed that there had been no complaints at all. As I say, there have been 114.
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sorry (92/93) are you suggesting they take their cars home somehow i dont think they would fit in the average drive of the boxes we have called houses !!!!!!
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oh and by the way good on you no 97 this old fogie will be down to join you next week once i have got my leathers out of moth balls, we can compare styles if you like also seriously thinking of getting my old rig out with my firestick and getting the old CBers back in action then they will have something to say !
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Blue Knight #96
Speed bumps, chicanes, cameras, police action, YES
A deaf dumb and blind barrier that excludes everyone, Offenders and innocent youngsters, NO
I agree with you, “Nobody wants to prevent others having harmless fun”
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Deputy Trevor Pitman #98
Firstly many thanks for your reply.
You say,
“your issue is really a personal one with me?”
My issue is with an elected deputy who is trying to turn a public place where the people of Jersey can go and park their cars for a pleasant break into private club. If the cap fits wear it.
“a key reason why the barrier would be staffed”
This would need to be 24/7. include sickness and holidays a minimum of 4 personnel, in these days of economising ?
I notice you have not commented on my assertion
“Every night around 40 cars and 20 motorbikes driven by teenagers and young men are racing, skidding, honking horns, flashing lights and blaring loud music around the Albert Place apartments.” is a gross exaggeration ?
Have you spoken to the youngsters you are trying to evict from a public place ?
Would you prefer them to meet in the pub ?
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Hi PJG
I’m not trying to ban anyone from a public place. The police, Harbours etc feel it is the best solution.
It will also not need to be staffed ’24/7′. It won’t even (if it happens) operate during the day, only at night. The staff for this will be from within Harbours existing number i.e. Security.
As I have said, I have spoken to many people from a whole range of groups, including a number of young people. Those who are not causing the problems will have no problem.
You stated earlier that these residents were the same people who had complained about mast cables – something which was entirely incorrect. All residents want is an end to the anti-social behaviour – not a blanket ban on all and sundry and not all vehicles.
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Deputy Trevor Pitman #103
I notice you have conveniently evaded commenting on my assertion that the article
“Every night around 40 cars and 20 motorbikes driven by teenagers and young men are racing, skidding, honking horns, flashing lights and blaring loud music around the Albert Place apartments.” is a gross exaggeration !and is distorting the public understanding of the problem.
If Harbour security can afford to man an extra barrier at night they are overstaffed, why have they not been observing these antics and taking registration numbers ?
I still say we need to target the offenders not the public to cure the problem.
IMO your solution is an expensive sledge hammer to crack a nut that will not cure the problem. It will inconvenience everybody except the offenders, they will not be brought to book they will just move on and take the problem elsewhere, Will you advocate another manned barrier there ?
You say “(if it happens)” I sincerely hope it does not.
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