J-cat change is put on hold
Thursday 4th February 2010, 2:59PM GMT.
Housing Minister Terry Le Main has suspended his ministerial decision which extended the rights of J-category staff to buy any properties in Jersey.
TWO weeks after being given the right to buy any property they want, essential immigrants have lost it again.
Housing Minister Terry Le Main has suspended his ministerial decision which extended the rights of J-category staff to buy any properties in Jersey.
The minister came under fire from States colleagues over the last two days as Members questioned whether he had the authority to make the decision without reference to the House.
Senator Le Main now faces a debate on the proposal after Senator Ben Shenton tabled a formal proposition to debate the matter in a month.
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…and to all those J-Cats who quickly signed up an A-H tenancy, on yer bike! I hope you have a warm jacket.
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A politician who might actually care for the Jerseyman. Not the developer £££££££
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Too Flaming right aswell!!!! Its an outrage to even consider it being approved!!!
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The States are a joke ! Yet another dumb decision, do you ever learn !
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Whether or not one actually agrees with his decision – and I for one certainly do not! – he was arrogant in the extreme to simply decide upon it personally without referral.
“Senator Le Main now faces a debate on the proposal” – he should face a vote of No Confidence after his recent fiascos.
He’ll be needing another elongated holiday after all this!
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Now this man must go,Then he can have a very very long holiday.Does he have a clue about his job,Me thinks Not.Go and Go now.Mr T LE MAIN,,,,,
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Now then, I wonder just what epithet our Tel will come out with this time?
Or perhaps he will scribble another ill-considered scrawl to this paper?
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about time they looked out for the locals
This is what happened years ago in wales.
All the rich were buying up houses to use as holiday homes to use for couple of weeks a year and the prices rose so much the locals had no chance to buy,then they started burning down the holiday homes and drove them out.
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Shall I shan’t I, perhaps not, but then again maybe, can I phone a friend,
what do you mean I haven’t got any !!!
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8.Bella – great idea, burn their/our homes and drive the lot of us back to England!! But why stop there….random street attacks, dog crap through our letter boxes, hate mails, your options are endless.
Well don’t fret, we’ll all be off home soon. And then you can fill all these jobs with your own local ‘expertise’!! And should you decide to visit my country be assured you’ll be made to feel as welcome as you’ve made us feel.
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non qual(1)could you expand on this please.
i am missing something here(yes i know its a few brain cells)
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I was shocked to hear that Senator Le Main had made the decision to open up the housing market in this way. Does he not realise that there are people who can’t afford further increases in flat/house prices that this daft decision is clearly going to bring.
The market need to be tightened up if anything.
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As a J Cat on the island – the truth of the matter is we really don’t give a damn. There are plenty of houses to choose from already. To all you local yokels – don’t ever forget we make your island the prosperous place it is today.
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Yeah, thanx Bella. Without immigrants, the UK and such places may as well close shop. What an arrogant bunch you are. I hope you never have to leave this stuck up island and work elsewhere and if you do, may you too be treated as badly as we are here.
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Its nice to see that Xenophobia is alive and kicking.Its not PC to say,The Boat leaves in the morning,but it does go to show,that some brainless people still think that way.Get a life.
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A fiasco like this is the reason why all non residents (or non-locals) should ask themselves, why do I need to live here long term…
good jobs, safe enviroment and possibly long term job security
what about the biggest downfall and the reason why I left years ago….nothing has changed…
Housing….get home now..!
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I’m missing something here! The current rules for J Cats say the property has to be over £250K and older than 2 years.
Has anybody found a property under £250K on Jersey that isn’t a shoe box?
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If this was agreed, which it should not have been, it should have been debated and voted on by the whole of the States.
The only ones to benefit from a change are the property developers who cannot sell what they have built – how about a price reduction?
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Non-qual – I am with David Brown and don’t get your comment..
The J cat change only related to purchasing as far as I understood and did not relate to the rental property.
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I think Jersey is a lovely place and I think if someone has been here paying tax here and working here for 5 years , why should they be dicriminated against , I am bringing up my family here and need a 2 bed place , the cost of an unqualified place is ridicoulous. There are lots of people who come over just for short periods of time to fill gaps in the job market, so there is obviously not enough local experise , so reward people who have contributed to the island, as I say 5 years!
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Its discusting that the states are quite happy to take the income tax of all the poeple earning over the average wage in professional jobs and live on the Island for more than five years, yet are still quite happy to treat us as third class citizens who are classed as loging and where tennants have a legal right to enter non qual property with absolutly no notice. Some people dont want to buy and use up the precuious first time buyer homes but just want to rent a flat or house with the dignity of selection and a lease. When the huge non qual work force leave this island, lets see where the islands economy is then, 12% or higher gst!! Then everyone will leave.
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This “hold” will result in J Cats reverting to buying houses rather than flats, (as any freehold house over 2 years old and worth greater than 250k can be classified as a ‘J cat’, which is effectively all freehold houses over 2 years old)
So, demand for houses will increase slightly and demand for flats decrease slightly – good news if you are a local awnting to buy a flat and bad news if you are a local wanting to buy a starter house.
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Speaking as an ex J cat who is now back in the UK it would really make my day if the UK government took away the rights of Jersey people to buy property here.
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I have lived here for 50 of my 62 years.
I love the place.
But should I change my mind I will get the boat in the morning.
What I wont do is bleat on about how badly I have been treated and how much greener the grass is on the other side of the hill
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In my experience it is those who have gained their A-H & J Cats who are the most arrogant. The Jersey born local people young and old are happy to welcome non-Jersey born folk to the island. If they stay and can afford a house, good luck to them.
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What #23 francis said. Then you Jersey lot would be up in arms.
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#10 14.
Don,t shoot the messenger!
I am merely stating a fact.
To me locals are locals even if they have only been here a week a month a year whatever as long as they intend staying here and not just fly by nights who buy up flats under share transfer and then let them out at an inflated price and move away.
Its these capitalists that i,m getting at,here to make a quick buck and gone tomorrow. this doe,NT give locals a chance and keeps prices too high for the ordinary guy to buy.
And by the way i am an immigrant even though i have been here for years.
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24 PJG
Very well said.
What people need to realise is the local and non-local alike are being screwed by the same people.
Non-locals can’t rent decent accommodation (which is a scandal) and locals are priced out of owning a home in their birthplace (another scandal).
….for those who insist that it is still possible with hard graft and cutting out luxuries then plase get real. Rent & living expenses still have to be paid whilst trying to save for deposits and fees, decent mortgages are hard to come by and properties are inadequate and over priced. A lottery win or house price collapse is the only possibility for most now……
13 God’s Mentor & 23 francis
It’s attitudes like yours which most locals and probably even non-locals despise. Full of your very own self-importance which is delusional.
As a J-Cat God’s Mentor please can you divulge which “essential” skill you bring to this island.
Remember, just because you may be classed as essential here (by some)it doesn’t mean that there are no locals that can do the job you do. Perhaps the locals who can do the job have left and are practicing elsewhere …. they are probably classed as “essential” in your own homeland…..swings and roundbouts hey!
If you personally aren’t happy working here then only you can decide to stay or go – nobody is forcing you. There will always be somebody somewhere who could do the same job and poerhaps appreciate it a lot more!
It’s your decision to stay so please refrain from blaming the locals for your predicament…..I’m sure you still have quite a cushy life in Jersey!
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PJG, another person who has been brain washed by small island Jersey mentality.
One’s right to freedom of speech, includes the right ‘to bleat on’ about anything, including poor treatment on the Island.
You are one of the lucky ones to suceed in Jersey , for that you should have a round of applause, a pat on the back from your working class relatives, and a Gold Star.
For the rest of us, we choose the freedom to do and say what we wish without being forced out or ‘sent on the boat in the morning’ by people like you.
Have you heard the story of the Emporer’s New Clothes? If not, perhaps you should read it.
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Reading some of the comments posted makes me feel ashamed to be a Jersey man. We rely on very good people whom in turn require J Cat status to become a part of our community and carry out the important roles for which they have been engaged. In addition, they pay taxes and generally contribute in a very positive way to our society .. unlike some!..
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I entirely disagree with THG’s comments; the “you know where the next boat leaves,” mentality and sense of entitlement to finance industry revenues will be the pride that causes this island to fall.
Whilst the industry expanded heavily from the 1970s to date, investors are subject to greater restriction from other jurisdictions which detracts from the investment offering, compounded by Jersey becoming a very expensive place to live and almost comically expensive to do business.
Dissuading experienced professionals from other countries from living here is the last thing this island needs. Like it or not, the island is dependant on finance and there simply isn’t enough local talent or experience from which to populate this industry.
Anyone that thinks there is, frankly, delusional.
Encouraging people to be migrant workers may have been acceptable in the agriculture and hospitality businesses but is not a suitable approach when trying to attract people to work in financial services.
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Yes Ben, they would be up in arms. But of course the UK government would not do that because they would consider it a violation of human rights.
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Whatever your views are on the whole “J-cat” question, and what rights and priviledges they may or may not be given, and the impact that these may hve on the “local” population, I feel that there is a more important debate that needs to take place; namely do we, the local electorate, and indeed the members of The States themselves, fully understand our new ministerial system of government? Apparently the answer is a resounding “no”! The confusion that the Housing Minister has created, not only amongst the local population (and here I mean both “locals” and “J-cats”, and indeed anyone else living on the Island and contributing to our society)but also his fellow members of The States, is concerning. Day “1″ – he announces a change to the existing housing qualification regulations – a change which, whilst not fundamentally rewriting the Housing Laws, does, potentially, have a significant impact on the local housing market conditions. Day “14″ – he announces a suspension to his original ministerial decision, as it would appear that questions have been raised over his right to make such decisions under his ministerial mandate. I feel that it is quite right that Senator Shenton has tabled a debate regarding the Housing Minister’s decision – and this debate should not be about the rights and wrongs of the decision itself (that is a subject that should be held over for another debate), but more about what power is actually invested in each Minister. And this is a debate that the people of Jersey should pay very close attention to. The last time I looked, we are still a democracy (although I am sure that there are those out there who would no doubt disagree), and I, for one, would like to know exactly what the powers of each Minister are to make apparently unilateral decisions on the future of the Island, without firstly taking the matter to the elected body of The States, for debate and agreement. Or perhaps I am just being a little bit naive, and have missed all the “benefits” of this system of Ministerial government? (which no doubt can be found tucked away on the gov.je website?)
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I have found some of the comments made here quite upsetting for both sides. As a Jersey resident who lives with her UK born partner, I can see both sides of the story. What some of the UK (J Cat/Non qualified) people are saying about us being band from buying in the UK would make them really happy is just unfair. For one thing there has to be some form of restriction on housing in Jersey as it is so small, whereas the UK does not suffer such problems. Whether or not the current restrictions are fair are not for me to say.
I love Jersey, it is my home. And I am glad to welcome others to enjoy it also, why would anyone want to deny others being here. But living here is not just difficult for those who weren’t born here. I am just 23 and I realise that I will never be able to afford my own home here. Unable to live with my parents due to their lack of money and not owning there own spacious home, I have to rent. Meaning no deposit. So I will have to move away one day.
So please realise, the outcry about this is not so much about not wanting others to live here – its due to people being scared that they will have to leave the island due to not being able to afford housing. This works all ways for J-Cat, Non-Qualified and A-H.
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I hope this is stamped on as all it will do is inflate house prices…as it is young people are leaving the island…because of the off the scale prices,all the greedy folks are happy for these unrealistic price hikes…but it is disatrous….remember when the have nots have had enough They historically will take from the haves….and it’s always violent.
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@ rudulp hooker #17
“…Has anybody found a property under £250K on Jersey that isn’t a shoe box?”
First local estate agents website I looked at online have 26 listings. That took me about 30secs. You may want to put in the time and effort, you could be surprised what you’ll find.
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As a Jerseyman born & bred, I worry about posters like Bella and Overpopulated etc etc
In 20 years from now, the quallies system will be completely gone
Either get used to it, or start looking elsewhere to make your life
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Don’t shoot me everyone, I have my quallies, but am a strong believer we’d ALL benefit if quallies was completely removed on lettings.
If the 11 year rule still stood for buying, then removing the quallies on rentals will make no difference at all.
The problems right now though are increased by our system. The non-quallies apartments are a disgrace to this beautiful island. Living conditions are worse than La Moye and the landlords are totally unregulated. Apartments for A-H or J-Cats have are very expensive, this is due to the increased demand where x% of properties are set aside for non-quallies.
If we removed this system, landlords would be forced to bring all accomodation up to a proper standard, every property would be regulated, and prices would not go through the roof due to each resident having a choice & not being pigeon holed
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What an ungrateful, illiterate and unwashed mob of sans culottes peasant you ‘crapauds’ are!
You cannot manage to run or administer your island without the expertise of the J-cats. If you could we would not have to be here, making money out of your ignorance hand over fist.
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CM, there is a restriction on housing…..It’s called price.
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J Lamborrari @ 36
Yep, now take a look at what you can buy for the same sum in England then ask yourself why tou would want a little shoe box in Jersey as opposed to a 3 bed detached in UK. So what I’m saying is; the market won’t go mad because the flood gates have been opened.
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(39)at least it would be our own poor administration.
(to quote ghandi, as he had told , smutts , that the british would walk out of india).
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@ rudolph hooker #41
“Yep, now take a look at what you can buy for the same sum in England…”
Do you mean within a 20min. walk of a high level finance job in the City? or something more rural?
Not sure you’ll get many 3bed homes in central London at those prices.
but equally unsure any comparison is really valid.
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J Lamborrari @ 43
Point taken, but what is your biggest outgoing? Do you really need the big salary if the mortgage is quarter of what you have here or indeed nothing. It’s relative.
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Jcat & proud
With an outburst like that you MUST be a civil servant!
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Naturally estate agents and developers will be rubbing their hands at Senator Le Mains wish to allow j cat residents to purchase property.
We are reassured that they can only purchase above £250,000 well how very reassuring, as much property is in excess of this anyway!
This can only further drive up the property prices in the island.
Please don’t let this go though.
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Why was comment 39 was allowed to be published, when it adds nothing to the debate and is blatantly just meant be inflammatory, insulting, and bordering on racist?
I’m sure that if I were to write “what a bunch of ignorant, unwashed, illiterate peasants you <> are then it would not have been published.
As for the comment “we would not have to be here” – hey guess what, you don’t HAVE to be here, feel free to leave at any time!
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#38 Carly
Some interesting points there. Some stubborn residents would refuse to even discuss that, but I think your arguments for removing quallies on lettings definitely have merits.
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Have I missed something here? If I have I apologise and will punish myself by eating uncooked Royals growing at the end of our garden … but…. I thought the idea of a J cat was to get a trained, educated foreigner over here for say 5 years to teach a local something clever and then return back to from whence they came. Why bother buying something for just 5 years stay?
Where was El Tel when the first announcement was made?
Is this the department that has been deemed to be “unfit for purpose”? …
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Mrs. Rosemary Bead 29.
Rosemary my love, I want to be in your gang…but hey, PJG has got a point…let’s face it, it’s not a good idea to spit on the plate you eat off!
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Tobias has hit the nail on the head. Yes, it is racist but, like a lot of places, the indigenous people seem to be fair game. The person that made the initial offensive remark typifies the kind of arrogant economic immigrant which the island attracts at the moment. I say at the moment because hopefully this will all end up soon. The Jersey people have been disciminated against for too long now and perhaps it is time that our good nature is set aside for once!
I would suggest that any future remarks of that ilk be reported for removal from the forum.
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I believe quallies should be scrapped for rentals….everyone who lives and works here should be entitled to decent accommodation.
I also believe that houses should not be sold to landlords or developers as investment properties – only to families or private individuals.
Landlords/developers can instead buy the numerous flats as investment properties.
Also, if the quallies are scrapped for J-cats then we need to ensure these people are actually “essential” to the island. There are far too many office workers (public and private) who are deemed essential when they are clearly not…..the jobs can be done by locally trained residents if given the opportunity.
This is just my view.
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47.Tobias.
If you banned comment 39 on the basis of being insulting/racist/inflammatory then you would have to do likewise to many of the posts on this subject, including your own.
You see, where I come from if you publicly told an immigrant to get the next boat/plane home you’d soon find yourself in hot water.
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I think if the locals were being honest (I was born in Jersey) they would admit that the influx of intellect has been massively beneficial to our island. Not just financially but also in relation to the impact on the gene pool. Most of us will have either living memory or have been told of relatives that were just a little bit too quick on the banjo (reference to the film Deliverance – in case you are local born).
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53 TB
I disagree.
Any comments made about leaving are made to “anybody” who doesn’t appreciate what Jersey has offered them (this could be local or non-local alike). That is not racist!
39′s comments were a blatant and specific attack on the local population…that IS racist!
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The housing market should be tightened … not relaxed.
Jersey is a tiny island – nine miles by five – and we simply can’t fit in more development without further ruining the character of the place and making it even harder for locals to get on the property ladder.
What is being proposed here will no doubt make the developers and the estate agents mouths water, but is this what the rest of Jersey wants?
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#54 I guess the question is “how much homegrown intellect has left?”
Jersey people are just as intelligent as people from anywhere else. But those that go to uni to study anything other than a finance-related subject don’t have a lot of options over here. Surely you can see that it’s nothing to do with intelligence, it’s simply to do with what you want to study. Jersey schools could, I’m sure, produce plenty of excellent finance industry employees, if the kids were so inclined, but it is possible that Jersey kids are put off going into finance because they grow up surrounded by it.
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BS Deluxe, I agree that “comments made about leaving are made to “anybody” who doesn’t appreciate what Jersey has offered them”
It’s interesting though that people so often assume Jersey has ‘offered them’ something but completely ignore what they are offering Jersey.
I disagree with J-Cat in the sense that I believe Jersey could (in a completely different form) run itself quite happily without incomers, but in the current form it would struggle. So those locals who want Jersey to remain pretty much as it is but moan about all incomers are kidding themselves unless they want to force their children to study certain subjects, rather than giving them choice to do what they want.
And while I agree with the housing regulation, it’s not right to accept the talent and skill of incomers but expect them to just shut up. Anyone who helps pay the salaries of the States is their ‘employer’ has a right to criticise their decisions. I can understand to a degree if it is economic migrants (they wouldn’t be here if life here wasn’t preferable to where they left), but not all incomers are economic migrants, not everyone is privileged to be here.
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It is a privilege to live on this beautiful isle and most J-Cats know that.
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I have just read through the comments already made.I’m not sure if people will find these comments relevent but I’d like to make tham anyway. I have always dreamed of being able to live on Jersey. My husband and I made a short visit three years ago.
I was apalled at some of the comments that have been made regarding J cats and non quals. Is it so wrong that people should want a better way of life for themselves? You have such a beautiful island. I listen to Radio Jersy via the internet and there always seems to be a variety of things going on for people of all ages. I always got the impression that it was an island with close connections to each other, a caring place due to it’s size.
I appreciate that it can’t be easy juggling in an area of 45 sq miles, but isn’t life difficult enough for all of us as it is, where ever we are, without peoples biggoted attitudes. Where ever we live in the world nothing is cheap. You all live in a beautful island, not all of us are that lucky!
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“It is a privilege to live on this beautiful isle and most J-Cats know that.”
Spot on, only most locals also know that.
I was born in Jersey and knew full well that if I wanted to live in a nice house in Jersey I needed to work hard at a well paid job that was in demand in the Island. But that would be the case anywhere.
Perhaps there is a mythic place where people work 35 hour weeks in a job they love and get to buy a beautiful family home with a large garden. But I’ve never found it.
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#61 mad foetus
You’re absolutely correct of course.
However, this highlights the negative aspect of having a quallies system. Too many residents think they are owed a great house and a great lifestyle just because of where they were born.
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Locals resent the island being trashed by too many people period from wherever,it’s the Govt fault…you simply can not put a pint in a half pint pot.
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Ahh come one – playing the racist card doesn’t work here at all.
Considering that most of the foreigners here come from the UK (yup – I’m indigenous English) means that we are of the Caucasian variety. Therefore the same race.
Nice try though to try and demean your opponent. 7 out of 10 for that.
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#63 You’ll have to though if population predictions are right! Personally, I think you’re making a valid point.
My island now has only 3 residents that were born and raised there, everyone else is an incomer, mostly from the south of England. The thing is because the island is small it’s easier to manage ‘immigration’. If you don’t pull your weight and respect the land and culture you simply won’t get on with people and won’t get the full benefit of the place. Those that move there, pull their weight, join in and play their part in local festivities etc are welcome regardless of their background or nationality. Also people tend to arrive ‘one here, two there’ … it’s more spaced out and each arrival gets to know the locals before another arrival comes in.
Governments in the UK (and presumably Jersey) have not managed immigration well at all and it has caused resentment. When it’s too many people in one fell swoop and they locate to specific areas en masse you can expect problems, especially if there is a language barrier, it is far too easy for people to stick to ‘their own’. When that area is reasonably small (like some towns in the North of Scotland or Jersey) then the problems may appear closer to the surface.
#64 Depends how far back in your heritage you go to define ‘indigenous English’. You’d probably consider me indigenous Scottish but I’m a different race to many other Scots. Genetic features like bone structure etc can pass on for centuries and centuries.
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Haven’t been to this site in months. I see the same people and whining about the same things. It’s nice that in a world of constant change something remains the same
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No 59. This is a wind up isnt it?. Most immigrants are in Jersey for economic reasons and do not care about the Island, in fact, many grow to hate Jersey and it aboriginal population.
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No. 67 It would appear that you are you confusing Jersey with Australia.
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aboriginal = indigenous (not limited to Oz)
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To Comment (10)
Emphasise on ‘When we come to VISIT’, not LIVE
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anyone see the Piers Morgan show on Monaco….every flippin square foot built on right up the the waters edge….now that would not be the fault of money grasping people would it….£1.2 Million for a rabbit hutch flat like those in Gloucester street…any similarities here//? any alarm bells going off ,do you see what’s on the agenda..no..then look again at the Zephyrus thing they want so bad….let us all say enough is enough..we don’t want it.just stop the spending.
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@ truthseeker #63
“Locals resent the island being trashed… …it’s the Govt fault…”
And who’s fault is the government?
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I seem to remember a few years back the States debated and voted to abolish quallies totally. The decision was changed when one of the Members, can’t remember who, changed his mind stating ‘He didn’t understand the question’.
Maybe this is the reason Jersey in such a mess today, Members voting and changing laws when the full ramifications have not been fully understood.
Either that or the ringbinders are back in force!
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Scrap all the housing rubbish in Jersey. I’ve moved from Yorkshire to Birmingham to Surrey. With a spell in Jersey too.
‘Housing Regs’? Do me a favour. I’ll keep my money here thanks.
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@ Ben #74
“… I’ve moved from Yorkshire to Birmingham to Surrey…”
What has that got to do with the issue in hand?
I’m not even sure what point you’re trying to make with your post??
From what I can gather you don’t like Housing Regulations; you don’t say why, I’m not sure you even know.
Are you aware that Jersey is a different country to those other places in England you mention? is yours just a selfish view because you want to live in Jersey, or do you have a problem with the USA’s housing regulations too, on principle?
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The tone of many emails here is quite worrying. I came on J Cat because the job I took (not finance)was not filled locally. I pay taxes; my wife works and pays taxes as well; our children finished school, went to University (which cost us 100% more than it would have done had we lived in the UK) and pay taxes from their jobs in Jersey. In order to move here we downsized, yet committed ourselves to a mortgage increase of 450% over our old one, and added a further 10 years to the period. I do not complain about any of this. My only concern is that in wanting people to commit themselves to Jersey, understand it and support it, there has to be some way of acknowledging their commitment. Some compromise in lowering from 11 years is needed.
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