How safe is St Helier?
Monday 8th February 2010, 3:00PM GMT.
The Constable of St Helier, Simon Crowcroft Picture: MATTHEW HOTTON (00884814)
THE fear of becoming a victim of violent crime is affecting Islanders and deterring potential visitors from exploring St Helier at night.
Today the JEP begins a major week-long series investigating how safe Jersey’s streets are and what effects it is having on our community.
And in the first part of the series, St Helier Constable Simon Crowcroft has revealed the damaging effect violence is having on his parish, while a teenager has re-lived losing his front teeth during a vicious attack last year.
The shocking level of street crime and serious violence in town has been highlighted in many high-profile court cases recently.
All this week the JEP will be talking to victims of violence – some of whom have been left too frightened to walk the streets again – as well as front-line staff who come face to face with danger on the streets most weekends.
• If you have a story to tell, e-mail news@jerseyeveningpost.com
Read the full story in the Jersey Evening Post. Click here for subscription details. Individual editions are also available online.
Travel
To, from and around the Island
Airport Arrivals & Departures
Harbours Arrivals & Departures
Bus Information & Timetables
JOIN US ON...
Facebook and Twitter
Follow us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
Got a story? Get in touch
BIRD WATCH 2012
Click here to record your results
The 11th Great Garden Bird Watch took place over the weekend, Saturday 4 and Sunday 5 February. JEP readers were asked to get on board to help monitor bird life in the Island.
This is Jersey
Jersey Evening Post
Useful links
The police and authorities will tell us how safe it is and we don’t have to worry, but as there are no deterrents in place how can anything possibly change, still look on the bright side anyone walking through town late at night has first hand view of the puke-rs and pee-rs!!!
Report abuse
It must be nearly two years ago, when frank walker went round town with the Police as body guards and claimed town safe for the minions. Did no one believe him. Funny that…
Personly I hate the place. TAUFU!!
Report abuse
It doesn’t really matter how safe (or unsafe )it is, the problem is the perception, which won’t change until the Police are tasked with getting rid of anti social behaviour in all forms.
A policy of zero tolerance is needed to reasure the public.
Report abuse
I’ve lived in Jersey for 9 years. There’s no doubt about it, St Helier has a menacing atmosphere that didn’t exist before. As a 39 year-old man, I’m almost embarrassed to admit that I get a little edgy walking the streets on my own after midnight. I’m not sure why this is, perhaps it’s happening everywhere. However, there’s a severe disillusionment amongst residents in Jersey these days, that includes both people with quallies and no quals. Perhaps it’s this general unhappiness with life that’s leading to increased anger on the streets, and more alcohol fuelled madness. The States should be doing more – they can easily withdraw the right to work here, meaning violent nutters are effectively deported. Unfortuneatly, it’s invariably not outsiders committing these acts. If people with quallies are considered more deserving of livable accommodation, perhaps the States could withdraw quallies from anybody beating people up for no reason. Mean streets require Governments with backbone, something ours severely lacks
Report abuse
In 1999 Jayne Marshall published a report entitled “Zero Tolerance Policing” which described how New York transformed itself over a period of just 3 years.
The strategy has since been copied by many of the world’s largest cities.
It would not be difficult to transform St Helier (or Jersey in general)it just needs the will to do it.
Report abuse
I read the article with interest. It didn’t surprise me that despite several pages of emotive story and circumstancial statements no hard statistics whatsoever. Comments refering to the Constable’s sons living all over the world but only ever getting beaten up in Jersey are circumstancial and run contrary to my experiences where friends and I were subject to 2 unprovoaked attacks by large groups in Birmingham in the space of 2 years; once because we were in dinner jackets and the other racially motivated. In Jersey I’ve never been attacked, or threatened to be attacked and aside from witnessing people get ejected from licencesed premises from time to time I’ve never seen violence on the streets matching what I’ve seen elsewhere.
Obviously there is violence here and any level is unacceptable but everything is relative. If we had some balanced reporting the statistics would show that St. Helier is relatively safe for the number of people who venture there on weekend nights compared to UK towns and cities. May be the JEP will print some in the week, until then I’ll assume the article’s objective was to spread the fear on a slow news day.
Report abuse
how far behind the real time is this guy. I wont go into town at night any more for the past FIVE years!!!!!!
Report abuse
I wouldn’t feel safe walking around town these days, back in my youth in the 80′s I never saw any trouble, everyone was out having a good time. I walked home across town several times a week for years and never saw any violence or felt threatened.
Now it’s mayhem, I drive through Halkett Place and Mulcaster Street to pick up my wife from an evening out and there are young people staggering across the road, walking into oncoming traffic completely oblivious. There are always groups of young people fighting on Mulcaster Street, no wonder the police are nowhere to be seen, they might be obliged to do something.
We need a strong police deterrent who will arrest drunks who are violent or abusive. We need pubs to stop serving people who are clearly intoxicated and we need to change the mindset that says being leathered in public is acceptable.
Lets name and shame these people so that when they go to work on Monday their bosses know what they get up to at the weekend.
What I suspect will happen in reality is nothing – same as always.
Report abuse
I drove down hill street at 11.30pm (on my way home from a friends) on Saturday night. Not realising that all the pubs had just closed. There was an idiot outside chambers holding up the traffic by jumping in front of eveyones car !!!! Lots of young people just walking in front of cars, stepping off the pavements without looking. I don’t have a problem with young ones out enjoying themselves but someone is going to get hurt. Was there a polceman to be seen – NO CHANCE. Alas there was a police van driving down by the harbour – I suppose to see if there were any boy racers, not 1 in sight.
I am sure that the police MUST know where and when they are needed by now.
Report abuse
The picture of old Crowcroft perched uncertainly on the edge of a bench in town at night looking worried and scared says it all.
The photo was probably only taken at 6 o’clock!
Ban alcopops and superbrews! Never had this problem when all you could buy was a pint of luke warm bitter that tasted of socks and had an ABV of 3%! How about a tax based on the strength all monies going to the police to provide an extra bobby or three and help clear up the puke?
I believe the sale of alcohol to minors is still illegal as is serving a person on licenced premises who is drunk?
Report abuse
Cultural diversity kids, its just cultural diversity. Listen to all the foreign mother tongues. It’s great, what is the problem!! I mean if you want real violence go to Middlesbough or Sunderland for a night out and then you will realise just how lucky you all are. Lightweights!!!
Report abuse
….and on top of this they’re getting rid of the Drugs Squad!! Come on all you barons…fill your boots..risk your couriers to Customs token checks and make all the money and cause all the misery you want…it seems the doors are being opened!
Report abuse
The only fear I have of St Helier is that if I were to defend myself against any violence or unprovoked attacks then I would be hauled up in the courts and punished instead of the real perpetrators.
Report abuse
i felt i always had to walk tall and confident, without lookin anyone in the eye years ago! best to just keep away! brick it up Escape to New York style!!
Report abuse
The streets are not safe…..Police are never around when you need them you call them and they fob you off with we have no untis available just now…can you go and see how bad the problem is…hello I am not a police officer and I am not trained….
Jersey is not safe and there isn’t enough police on the beat, years ago there were plenty of police around and one felt safe…you never see police on the main streets don’t mind say the side streets…Jersey needs work harder and think smarter as to how they plan to sort this major problem out before it get worse…..
Report abuse
Mulvie Le Phew # 8 said “We need a strong police deterrent who will arrest drunks who are violent or abusive. We need pubs to stop serving people who are clearly intoxicated and we need to change the mindset that says being leathered in public is acceptable.”
There’s the rub; according to many submissions on the JEP discussion board, there is little or no police deterrent on the streets of St. Helier.
I wonder if the Acting Chief Officer of Police, David Warcup, monitors these submissions, or if he gets one of his subordinates to do it for him?
Rumour control has it that there aren’t sufficient officers on the street over the busy periods and there is little or no supervison from the Sergeants and Inspectors. I wonder if Mr. Warcup and his deputy get out to see what is going on?
In the U.K. a Superintendent would be in charge of a similar number of officers, as is in the entire States of Jersey Police. In the U.K. it isn’t unknown for Chief Inspectors and Superintendents in the U.K. to go out on patrol and to make arrests. Let’s see some senior officers in Jersey lead from the front, instead of sitting behind large wooden desks on the top floor of Police H.Q.
If the force consists of 250 officers, let’s assume 100 were on uniformed operations; with five shifts that would give 20 officers per shift. Let’s say some are on leave, some are off sick or under training, you could still have between 12 to 15 officers available and have overlapping shifts to boost numbers of officers on the street and augment this number with the redoubtable Police Honorifiq.
None of this is rocket science; it was done in the 1970s, 80s and 90s. In those bygone days the police seem to have had more control of the streets. Of course in those days, most of our Chief Officers were home grown and understood how to police the island properly. They weren’t the political animals we appear to have today who are just administrators.
The breed of senior officer now, seem to be more concerned with witch hunts amongst their own ranks, than sorting out trouble in licensed premsies and on the streets.
Many officers I have spoken to, have mentioned how few officers are available to patrol the streets. They also discuss that even under the new régime, the Force is like a rudderless ship, with a lot of inexperience amongst the supervisory ranks. It is said there is a lot of jockeying for position, with some senior officers about to retire.
This is very sad, because there are many able officers in the force, who are more than capable of resolving the problems under discussion above, given the right leadership.
Alas, unless there is some miracle – or direction from our politicians – things are not about to get better in the near future and I for one wont be keen to walk the streets of St.Helier after dark.
Report abuse
Why are not ALL honorary police officers from ALL parishes patrolling St Helier at weekends , with just a couple left in each parish? Their uniforms would surely be some deterrent if the place was flooded with them?
Report abuse
My goodness -obviously no-one was around about 20/30 years ago when the motor bikers would fight themslves and anyone else at the weighbridge and snow hill with knives and chains!!!!
St helier is safe. For heaven’s sake. When are you going to stop letting the media lead the agenda = they print a story, the politicians react and middle Jersey gets its knickers in a twist.
The only way more “bobby’s on the beat” would stop anything is if one was posted outside every door 24/7. Anyway unpleasant as it may be vomiting on the street is not yet a crime!!
And zero tolerance has not worked anywhere – not even in New York and heaven forbid that you are comparing St Helier with New York. Try living there if you want crime!!!
Report abuse
If you think things are bad in Jersey have a look at this………………….
This is believed to be a genuine complaint to Devon & Cornwall Police Force from an angry member of the public. A true email sent to the force, lengthy but brilliantly written…..
Dear Sir/Madam
Automated telephone answering service.
Having spent the past twenty minutes waiting for someone at Bodmin police station to pick up a telephone I have decided to abandon the idea and try e-mailing you instead.
Perhaps you would be so kind as to pass this message on to your colleagues in Bodmin, by means of smoke signal, carrier pigeon or Ouija board.
As I’m writing this e-mail there are eleven failed medical experiments (I think you call them youths) in St Mary’s Crescent, which is just off St Mary’s Road in Bodmin.
Six of them seem happy enough to play a game which involves kicking a football against an iron gate with the force of a meteorite. This causes an earth shattering CLANG! which rings throughout the entire building.
This game is now in its third week and as I am unsure how the scoring system works, I have no idea if it will end any time soon.
The remaining five failed-abortions are happily rummaging through several bags of rubbish and items of furniture that someone has so thoughtfully dumped beside the wheelie bins. One of them has found a saw and is setting about a discarded chair like a beaver on ecstasy pills.
I fear that it’s only a matter of time before they turn their limited attention to the caravan gas bottle that is lying on its side between the two bins.
If they could be relied on to only blow their own arms and legs off then I would happily leave them to it. I would even go so far as to lend them the matches.
Unfortunately they are far more likely to blow up half the street with them and I’ve just finished decorating the kitchen.
What I suggest is this – after replying to this e-mail with worthless assurances that the matter is being looked into and will be dealt with, why not leave it until the one night of the year (probably bath night) when there are no mutants around then drive up the street in a Panda car before doing a three point turn and disappearing again. This will of course serve no other purpose than to remind us what policemen actually look like.
I trust that when I take a claw hammer to the skull of one of these throwbacks you’ll do me the same courtesy of giving me a four month head start before coming to arrest me.
I remain your obedient servant
???????
———————————————————————
Mr ??????,
I have read your e-mail and understand your frustration at the problems caused by youths playing in the area and the problems you have encountered in trying to contact the police.
As the Community Beat Officer for your street I would like to extend an offer of discussing the matter fully with you.
Should you wish to discuss the matter, please provide contact details (address / telephone number) and when may be suitable.
Regards
PC ???????
Community Beat Officer
———————————————————————
Dear PC ???????
First of all I would like to thank you for the speedy response to my original e-mail.
16 hours and 38 minutes must be a personal record for Bodmin Police Station, and rest assured that I will forward these details to Norris McWhirter for inclusion in his next Guinness book.
Secondly I was delighted to hear that our street has its own Community Beat Officer.
May I be the first to congratulate you on your covert skills? In the five or so years I have lived in St Mary’s Crescent , I have never seen you. Do you hide up a tree or have you gone deep undercover and infiltrated the gang itself? Are you the one with the acne and the moustache on his forehead or the one with a chin like a wash hand basin? It’s surely only a matter of time before you are head-hunted by MI5 to look for Osama.
Whilst I realise that there may be far more serious crimes taking place in Bodmin, such as smoking in a public place or being Christian without due care and attention, is it too much to ask for a policeman to explain (using words of no more than two syllables at a time) to these twats that they might want to play their strange football game elsewhere.
The pitch on Fairpark Road , or the one at Priory Park are both within spitting distance as is the bottom of the Par Dock, the latter being the preferred option especially if the tide is in.
Should you wish to discuss these matters further you should feel free to contact me on . If after 25 minutes I have still failed to answer, I’ll buy you a large one in the Cat and Fiddle Pub.
Regards
?????????
P.S If you think that this is sarcasm, think yourself lucky that you don’t work for the sewerage department with whom I am also in contact !!!
Report abuse
Yes Jersey has drunken antics in town, but (thankfully) it is like likening a family moggy to a bengal tiger when comparing the safety of St. Helier to the safety of all UK cities or towns. Saying that – before things get too bad – I think the Police presence should be increased and fines for drunken behaviour trebled.
Report abuse
‘Escape to New York style!!’
Which part, gun crime central Brooklyn or posh Manhattan?! Or perhaps slightly more genteel New Jersey?
lol
Report abuse
It is particularly worrying that mach of this vioence is committed by young locals. I am sure this is because many children in Jersey are from broken homes, due to the high incidence of divorce,and single mothers, especially in the housing estates.
Report abuse
Sunny (comment 18)says that St Helier is safe.I sincerely hope that for his/her sake it always remains that way but I would argue that everywhere is safe until something happens to you which will convince you otherwise.It is pointless comparing St Helier to anywhere else because the problem is if people find it threatening then they will avoid it and be wary of it.I can think of someone I know who lived in London for years but was assaulted in St Helier so for him St Helier is more dangerous than London but others would scoff at this suggestion.I have noticed however that Jersey,in general,is not the laid back friendly place it was at one time and I find the feral behaviour of children/teenagers very unacceptable(and that’s in broad daylight!)
Report abuse
11 – immigrant
Cultural diversity kids, its just cultural diversity. Listen to all the foreign mother tongues. It’s great, what is the problem!! I mean if you want real violence go to Middlesbough or Sunderland for a night out and then you will realise just how lucky you all are. Lightweights!!!
So beacuse it’s not as bad as some of the UK violence hotspots, there’s not a problem, tell that to the guy who had his head stamped on. Any level of violence or threat is unnacceptable. If we vetted those we allowed into our island and barred those with criminal records from entering ( as Guernsey have done for over 20 years ) then we would keep the worst of the vermin out, furthermore if we deported those who offended ( if not local ) and introduced a 3 strikes and you’re out policy for all locals ( jail unlimited term ) then there would soon be an improvement.
All we need is a government who have the ba**s to implement the policies, the will from the people is there to support it.
Report abuse
As these ‘potential visitors’ will probably never materialise anyway – I shouldnt worry too much!!
Report abuse
Joker (6) & Immigrant (11)
How right you are, I have lived in several Cities around the UK including L’pool, M’chester, Sheffield etc and whilst never having been “beaten up” they really do have an edge to them. St Helier doesn’t even rank amongst the towns I have visited for nights out, lets see some stats posted that take into account population size!! St Helier menacing, my a&^e!!
Report abuse
As good as the State Schooling it provides?
Report abuse
Absolutely love the image of Crowcroft as a superhero in St Helier – I think the JEP said he was the ‘man at the heart of the streets of st. Helier’. I think he could actually stop all anti-social behaviour if he dressed in bright lycra and a cape and chased after villains. It would be great
On a serious note though – i got out every weekend – although i dont feel unsafe, i would like to see more police generally – they should be continually patrolling around the pubs and clubs to stop any trouble before it gets serious
Report abuse
Crime is different in other places. In Glasgow crime is predominantly gang-related, the others involve provocation or someone you know. You can avoid those 3 main risks if you choose. In over two decades frequenting clubs and pubs in the city centre and Greater Glasgow my friends and I have never had any bother, and we’ve been in some supposedly ‘rough’ areas. As there are usually plenty of people around, and a police presence, it helps you to feel safe.
I felt totally safe in Manhattan and London (even at 3, 4am), because there were lots of people around and in Manhattan you couldn’t walk a block without seeing a policeman. Of course there are large parts of NYC and London that I would avoid completely but that still leaves you loads of safe areas.
Being smaller St Helier doesn’t have as many sober, law-abiding, people walking around at night and to feel safe you need the police presence to be more visible (in the hotspot areas in particular). I don’t feel particularly unsafe at night in St Helier but then I do avoid the areas around certain pubs, the apparent random attacks in the last year do concern me a bit though.
The important thing is that just because St Helier is safer than some places doesn’t mean it should rest on its laurels. Crack down hard on the culprits and start cracking down on drunkenness, keep the place relatively safe.
Report abuse
We visited Jersey last October for the first time in 11 years. Even though we enjoyed our stay, I’d like to highlight two events. Firstly, we were walking past Chambers during the afternoon when a couple of youths asked us for a cigarette. Neither my husband or I smoke, but when we told them this, one of them spat on my husband’s leg – we were horrified. On another occasion we went for a meal in St Aubin, it was a lovely night, so we went for a walk. However, within 2 minutes we stumbled across a girl performing a sexual act on a guy on a bench. Whilst some people will think these incidents are trivial, it’s not the ‘life enriching’ advert that we bought into
Report abuse
I live in Hackney, East London, although I was born in Jersey and lived there until I was 18. Where I live now is right in the mix of “trident” related issues but I have absolutely no problem walking down streets, alleys or through parks at anytime day or night. I do however feel slightly threatened when im back in jersey and on a night out, which is about 5 or 6 weekends a year.
I think the main problem is that in areas with high rates of crime or anti social behaviour in the UK most issues are gang related or certainly involve similar demographics between victim and offender, where as jersey is just a mix of yobs that have no agenda or pre-determined “enemy” going at anyone that looks at them funny.
If I walk past a group of untoward looking young males in Hackney I feel safe because im like a ghost, im not part of their world and they aren’t part of mine. I know this doesn’t say much for our current social structure but at least it keeps innocents out of danger. In jersey, however, its seems violence is no more than drink fuelled pompousness. Every time I come home I seem to see someone with blood down their face, it makes no sense to me?!? I certainly try to avoid areas such as Snow Hill or the Parade if I have been drinking and am looking to get a taxi for fear of being harassed by a bored moron with a chip on his shoulder.
Funnily enough, when I was home at Christmas I saw somebody getting repeatedly hit in the face at Snow Hill bus stop, a police car drove past minutes later and was flagged down. I told the officer that the person who had just committed the offence had walked up Colomberie and was wearing a pretty awful striped jumper that would not have been hard to identify. The officer said that he first had to take a statement from the person that had been punched?!?! By the time that was over the guy up the road would have been long gone, I got pretty angry at the time and gave up any assistance I could have offered preferring to take my chances of getting a taxi down La Motte St way. Im not insulting the police as such but I do think the red tape bs gets in the way a bit, just get down the road and arrest the fool that committed the offence, then take a statement surely??
Stupid Jersey, it really will run its self into the ground one day.
Report abuse
I’ve just got back from a six month stint in New York – and yes – I felt safer there than in St. Helier.
Report abuse
As one of the very first posters said, it’s not complicated. Zero tolerance and a police presence. Crime is at such a low general level in Jersey I don’t know why we need more than 10 police on duty most of the time.
But on Friday and Saturday nights we need to flood St Helier with uniforms. And any assault against a stranger should be a 5 year sentence at least.
Report abuse
Matt no 28
dressing up worked for Del & Rodney
Report abuse
The States need to do more to help those from broken homes who frequent the nightclubs due to lonliness and depression.
Report abuse
For those of you harking back to the Good Old Days. Remember the ‘Beast of Jersey’? The are always a few ***** out there. I see them everyday, I get sworn at , threatned and have ben physically attacked whilst at work. Most abuse conmes from young people. It makes it very hard to remember that most young people are perfectly normal socially aware people. Unfortunatley the idiots do not wear a sign. Deal with the problem, don’t let the problem end up dealing with how you live your life.
Report abuse
Sam L. #31. You said, “Funnily enough, when I was home at Christmas I saw somebody getting repeatedly hit in the face at Snow Hill bus stop, a police car drove past minutes later and was flagged down. I told the officer that the person who had just committed the offence had walked up Colomberie and was wearing a pretty awful striped jumper that would not have been hard to identify. The officer said that he first had to take a statement from the person that had been punched?!?! By the time that was over the guy up the road would have been long gone, I got pretty angry at the time and gave up any assistance.”
As a retired police officer with over thirty years experience in law enforcement, I am both saddened and amazed by your encounter with the police. Saddened by the apparent lack of tenacity of the officer and amazed that his policy was that he had to take a statement from the victim, before making an arrest. I can’t imagine that was a Force policy – it certainly wasn’t in my day.
You had witnessed the occurrence and all he needed to do was record your name and address, plus contact telephone number. He could have then asked you to accompany him in the police car to see if you could do a street identification of the offender.If the assailant was traced nearby, with you identifying him, the police officer could have arrested him on suspicion of committing the assault. At the very least he could have taken the assailant’s details so he could be traced at a later time, should the victim make a statement.
You unfortunately don’t make clear whether the alleged victim was nearby, so his details could be recorded and the complaint could be substantiated. Even if this wasn’t the case there could have been a public order offence committed that you’d witnessed, so the police dealt with this, rather than just letting the culprit go.
What you claim occurred; sends out entirely the wrong message to the thugs that roam our streets and it gives you the impression the police are worthless. Naturally I don’t believe you should tar all police officers with the same brush; there are some excellent officers and there are some hopeless cases – we used to call them ‘uniform carriers’. Of course the officer you met could have been a good officer who was having a bad day.
I hope your encounter with the law, won’t deter you from reporting incidents to the police in future.
Report abuse
I have been walking through town on a Friday night approx 1.45am along King St. when 4 youths stopped and asked me if i had any fags. I said no and if i did i would not give yo any because your are under 18 years of age and i would be breaking the law.They started to swear etc at me , i then pointed to the cctv camera and said the police can see you and record you. I was not afraid but not happy with the situation. Now how come children are in King St. at 1.45am? Over the last 10 years the town on a Friday night is not a place for peaceful people! The States refused to act when told that there was a drug problem in the Island 25 years ago. They would not admit to the fact because of giving Jersey a bad name ( bit like HDLG and child abuse )The States have to do something NOW before the problem gets right out of hand with violence on our streets in town or anywhere else in the Island.
Report abuse
‘Doormen need Stab vests’
In 34 years in the security industry (still active) I have never felt the need to wear a stab vest. I think we are being mistaken for an inner city rather than a small community where we know most of the people we deal with. If an individual feels so threatened and wishes to wear one that should be their choice.
The article on page 10 Tuesday 9th February rings true on most comments, Door staff are abused on many levels and are not recognised for the job they do, (by Police or the general public) long gone are the days of the Bouncer.
The quality of staff is much higher now, since 1996 they are vetted by the Police as to their suitability and undergo training in First aid, Conflict management, Drug awareness, all of which they pay for.
They are there to look after the 90% of people out to enjoy themselves, the verbal abuse you get can be taken with a pinch of salt as people who are drunk say a lot of things they don’t mean and often regret it the next day.
Physical abuse is very different, and I always advise staff to prosecute where necessary as it’s no longer part of the job, if a security supervisor is assaulted whilst on duty it should be treated the same as a Police officer, after all he/she is upholding the licensing law.
I am in favour of Zero tolerance, If a person is violent with alcohol, Stop them drinking! (exclusion orders), instead of penalising the majority that enjoy a social life.
Stop the sale of cheap alcohol from shops, supermarkets, at least with the pubs and Clubs people are being monitored by Managers, bar staff and if they have them, Door staff,
All too often bottles are confiscated at the door before they gain entry, or are found empty under tables or in the toilets.
Let the Door staff do the job they are trained for and be praised for their effort, instead of being classed as a Thug in a suit.
Report abuse
One way to make people feel safer in St Helier is to issue them stab jackets as they enter town.
Report abuse
I fear that St Helier is rapidly losing its purpose. Yes, my office is in town, but many shops are closing. Street Parking has been virtually abolished, and even vehicles on legitimate business to do deliveries and collections have to stop where they can. Overstay you paid parking in a car park and its £60 fine, thankyou. Hardly condusive to retail therapy.
While residents have parking permits in some areas, do they not have visitors ? Where do you park, or stop to collect anyone.
With out of town shopping so readily available, and night life concentrated on town (I am old enough to remember the out of town night spots) it is not suprising that St Helier is the way it is.
Report abuse
Sunny is bang out of order i am a biker and think he she must of been on drugs when i was in town we had a good time drinking and rideing.
support your local Bikers…
Report abuse
I would just like to support Arthur Illingworth’s comments on door supervisors. They are the unsung heros in the fight against violence on and outside licensed premises.
In 1996 I was the Police Sergeant in charge of the Licensing Unit. I was responsible for setting up the door supervisors’ registration scheme.
All those wishing to be door supervisors had to undergo a check by the Criminal Record Bureau.If applicants were found to have specific criminal convictions they were prevented from being licensed.
With the assistance of the Jersey Licensed Retailers and Jersey Nightclub Association, no unlicensed door supervisor was permitted to work at their premises. In addition to this the A.G. added conditions to liquor licences, specifying which pubs and clubs had to have door supervisors.
All door staff underwent training, as outlined by Arthur and if applicants didn’t complete these courses, they were not allowed to be licensed.
During my time on the Licensing Unit, I worked with an excellent team, who vigorously enforced the Licensing (Jersey) Law and made numerous arrests for drunkenness, disorder, violence and drug offences. In many of the cases we dealt with, we had considerable assistance from many of the door supervisors. Indeed I can safely say, there were a number of occasions when doormen and doorwomen saved police officers from being seriously assaulted.
I no longer live in Jersey, but I would hope that the cooperation between door supervisors and police officers has been maintained. It is only by working with other professionals that the police can perform in their role.
As for wearing stab vests; I agree with Arthur. They are currently unnecessary in Jersey and I know they are horribly uncomfortable, especially in warm weather.
Ir would be far better for door supervisors to have experise in conflict resolution and to have a thorough understanding of the continuum of force.
Report abuse
19 – Blue Knight
If that is the wway you usually communicate with people I am not at all surprised that you got no response.
Personally, if I had been on the receiving end of such drivel I would have searched every law, statute and rule available to nick you.
I have found two French aphorisms very useful in dealing with the authorities (always assuming, of course, that you can understand a language other than your own):
* On ne trappe pas les mouches avec le vinaigre, and
*La politesse – toujours la politesse!”
Try them next time you feel inclined to vent your bile on the police and see how the service will vastly improve.
But by now your local cop shop has you and your address on file, anyway.
Report abuse
44. Le Craupaud Vert.
Are you for real? If so I think you need to get out more.
Report abuse
A.D.Nauseum 37- Firstly, im not suggesting that all police officers are complacent, far from it. The situation, however, did appear to be dealt with pretty poorly. When I said in my post that the officer wanted to take a statement it was from the victim that he wanted it. The guy was pretty dazed and was certainly not going anywhere in a rush, a few girls were tending to him and he didn’t need urgent medical attention. He also wanted to speak to the police which is why I got annoyed with the officer as there was clearly a more pressing issue at hand, the apprehension of the offender.
Once again, im not suggesting all officers are alike, far from it, but if im totally honest I would say that the officer in question was actively avoiding increased workload by allowing the offender to get away. In his eyes and yes he probably has a small point, the victim is going to wake up with bruises and the like which will all heal, plus maybe he was as much of a thug as the offender and had instigated the punching. I cant say as I only came from Hill Street as it was seriously kicking off.
It just doesn’t please me that the person who did the punching can wake up the next day as though nothing has happened. If we allow people to get away with such acts of violence then whats going to deter them from repeatedly acting in a violent way, or worse, getting increasingly more violent. It must be the job of the police force to eradicate any nonchalance towards anti social behaviour in town otherwise these ignorant fools will just be conditioned into thinking it is the norm.
Report abuse
Le Crapaud Vert (Green Toad) # 44. Unfortunately Father La Fraise at De La Salle College, was unsuccessful in teaching me French. I think it was my fault, as I hadn’t at that time forgiven the French for the Napoleonic war.
You will of course realise that my entry at # 19, was a quote of communications between a member of the public and the Devon & Cornwall Police.
Your threats to do nasty things to me could amount to being be a reckless Crapaud, or a breach of the Telecommications (Jersey) Law – sending threatening and abusive messages (Being a However as you are an endangered species, I doubt the local Centenier would charge you with such an offence – it wouldn’t be in the public interest).
Report abuse
Mr. Sankey, my English teacher at the Beeches would be well upset with my spelling of Telecommunications at # 46, but I did get my GCE…honest Gov.
Report abuse
#30 Gabby
Hey Gabby, I think I may have been that guy on the bench. It may not have been ‘life enriching’ for you, but it was marvellous for me!
I agree with so many comments here. Jersey is much safer than other cities in the world, but that’s no consolation for residents when they feel less safe than before.
I particularly agree with #4 Beaumont. The States are weak, they should be doing more to tackle crime. This includes naming & shaming kids and their parents, tougher sentences for thugs, and as Beaumont says, remove the right to work here for unwanted individuals
Report abuse
Blue Knight 19.
Thank you! Your post (19) was very amusing.
By the way, I’ve added your newly created word “Telecommications” to my glossary…I intend to use it in my next angry e-mail to my phone company.
Report abuse
Sam L. # 46. Your response to my earlier posting paints an even worse picture. It doens’t even sound as if this errant copper even took time to enquire about the welfare of the victim. Maybe he could have given first aid, taken him to A & E or called an ambulance.
Your description of the victim looking dazed might suggest he was suffering from concussion and even if there were no obvious injuries, the police officer should at least have had a look to satisfy himself everything was okay. This all sounds like a negelct of duty to me.
If I were a police supervisor or manager in today’s force, I’d want to make sure my officers did better. Let’s hope someone from the police reads these comments and that they learn from the debacle you have highlighted. It’s not the sort of thing you’d expect from a public servant earning up to £50,000.
Report abuse
I venture to say that half the people who feel safe in St.Helier at night are in fact half cut and so somewhat innured to what is in reality sometimes a volatile place.or why would we have needed to have taxi marshals, because many a taxi customer has had their lights knocked out in the que by self centred badly behaves drunks who wont wait,to the point that a lot of people were scared to go for their taxi as it was intimidating, and would try to flag one down by the entrance to the Pomm’e D’or or around the corner…there is tension and it could be cured by getting the cops out of the motors and onto the beat, when Dicky Stokes was around the bridge with his big Alsation..the drunks knew who controlled the streets.
Report abuse
Im a 67 year old pensioner and I personally get ‘tooled up’, that is I carry some pepper spray, a personal alarm, and a balaclava, when I walk through town late at night. I find it helps my confidence and if any of these lunatics attack me – I’m ready.
Report abuse
jersey and the uk are finished places..civil unrest and neglect for everything and anyone
simples!
Report abuse
“…Stop the sale of cheap alcohol from shops, supermarkets, at least with the pubs and Clubs people are being monitored by Managers, bar staff and if they have them, Door staff…”
Are you saying that retailers are less diligent in their jobs than hospitality workers? I think that’s a little unfair; I’ve worked in both areas(but mostly retail) and while there are always staff that don’t do their jobs, the managers were just as diligent in both on & off trade.
I don’t think that banning drinking outside of licensed premises is the answer; not that agree with the opposite either, but I do think it would have a greater effect on late-night drunkenness on the streets of St Helier.
Report abuse
No. 53 Where did you buy that balaclava and the doormen could do with some pepperspray.
Report abuse
Mrs. Rosemary Bead 53.
What do you need the balaclava for?
Something tells me that I shouldn’t have asked that question…
Report abuse
#53
Love it, I would recommend a brolly also! And if you knitted your own balaclava then you could carry knitting ‘equipment’ on you (including needles) and if stopped you could claim you were on the way to teach a friend.
Unfortunately there aren’t enough martial arts classes on the island for me to permanently (and legally) carry my nunchucks.
Report abuse
What #20 said. I haven’t been back to St. Helier for a couple of years now, but when I was last there it was completely tame late at night compared to some mainland UK town or city centres.
Report abuse
‘jersey and the uk are finished places..civil unrest and neglect for everything and anyone
simples!’
I love these comments, they often end with something like ‘i’m moving to Australia for a friendlier and safer life’.
Having been to Oz and New Zealand the cities suffer equally as badly with crime, violence etc…
The truth is that, places like St. Helier have always been dangerous at night. Boozed up anglo-saxon cultures have been this way for centuries and that includes those in the southern hemisphere.
Report abuse
Ben (comment 59) At least you have said “some” UK towns or cities whereas Gods Mentor (20)thinks that “ALL” UK towns and cities are worse than St Helier.I just have to laugh when people think that everywhere in the UK is the same-crime ridden,violent and anti-social behaviour rife in every part of the land.Not quite true in my experience.
Report abuse
There are two Bens on here. I’m #59, don’t know who the other one is at #60, but they seem to have something of a problem.
Change your name son.
Report abuse
In my view, St Helier is no different to many UK towns. It is a case of many in the ages of 18 to mid 20′s(that choose to go clubbing/drinking, not all do!) that get themselves so tanked-up on Alcohol, they have no idea of their attitudes at this point! Licensee’s have got to be more aware of when to stop serving, to avoid brand promotion prices(BOGOF and other similar offers) and put a higher age limit on Licensed premises.
Report abuse
No. 58 excellent idea, balaclava knitting patterns distributed to doormen along with brollies.
Report abuse
I’ve been in bars on 3 islands that do not have any permanent police presence and they police themselves very well, with locals backing up any decision the licensee has to make (barring people/taking their car keys from them etc).
These methods wouldn’t be workable somewhere the size of Jersey (although I would expect friends/relatives to take car keys off people) but it really is time that we all started taking a bit of responsibility to make places safer and a lot of that will mean changing our attitude towards alcohol and especially to the drunken behaviour of friends/family. People tolerate all sorts from drunk friends and drunk family members and they really shouldn’t.
Report abuse
What a stupid question!! It is not just a feeling but a fact St Helier, our tiny town with 250 Uniformed Police, parish hall Police, CCTV cameras, is an unpleasant and unsafe place to be at night. The cry from the public is and has been
for some time GET THE LAW KEEPERS OUT ON PATROL, to show their presence, let the paperwork wait, and if there are not enough to do the job, then for goodness sake get some more ,it is not pathetic excuses we need but stern action before more people are injured.
Report abuse
Im not sure I like all this anti alcohol talk, especially that of the cheap stuff. Ive been twanted off my baubles enough times to know that alcohol has very little to do with violence. i have never in my life acted in a violent way towards another when drunk so am i an anomaly? Hardly! There are many like me that can get shidazzled without starting fights.
Its not the gun that kills!
Report abuse
I’ve just been reading these comments with interest having grown up in the Island and now being a fairly frequent customer in St.Helier pubs for nearly 20 odd years. I visit Jersey on average about once a year to catch up with old friends for a few beers.
I have been living in London for the past ten years, and also lived in Liverpool, Manchester and Scotland prior to that. All places with a reputation as being “rough” to some extent.
I must firstly say that in Jersey there has always been an underlying threat of violence, at night, certainly ever since I started going out back in about 1992. It seems things have got worse over the last few years but I have always regarded it as a place that you need to “be on your guard”.
During the day it feels like one of the safest places in the British Isles but at night I have seen literally countless fights, many totally unprovoked, and many more close calls where only luck prevented things from escalating.
There was always the threat of a drunk throwing a punch for no reason but I think the increased drugs availablity issues of the late 80′s and 90′s brought in a lot of people who were not just interested in a good night out anymore. I have to disagree with some of the people who have commented that St Helier is relatively safe compared with other cities in the UK. It can be equally as bad as those places for random violence, if nothing else. I have seen it all first hand. The inner city areas just outside of city centres in the UK are far rougher and full of crime than the Jersey parishes for obvious economic reasons, but St Helier is at least as bad for drunken violence.
I truly believe that St.Helier is genuinely quite a “rough” place at night and the underlying threat of violence could be compared with that of Liverpool and Manchester city centres. The massive economic differences between those cities and Jersey show that there must be other root causes of the problem, rather than just poverty.
I put it down to a mixture of different things:
1. To begin with, the influx of people from the “mainland” over the last 30/40 years has certainly influenced Jersey people and nightlife in both a positive and negative way.
2. The lack of respect and belief in the Jersey Police and criminal courts. This results in people thinking “it’s only Jersey”, and “I’ll never get caught” or “La Moye Prison is a walk in the park”.
3. Lack of police presence at night at the known trouble spots and surrounding areas. Interested to know the number of police on the beat on a Friday and Saturday night these days??
4. Someone in an earlier comment spoke of the “pompous” attitude of many, nearly to the point where they have no regard for others. I could not agree more. Not sure where this comes from but probably hails from being incredibly spoilt as youngsters and having no respect for authority.
5. A serious drinking culture although that is perhaps a more general UK wide issue.
I agree that there should be more police on the beat as that would certainly help but clearly increased deterrents need to be introduced as well. People need to know they cant get away with violence and must be suitably punished and/or treated if they do offend.
Having said all of this I still look forward to a night out in the Island and will visit again this summer…
Report abuse
We need zero tolerance to public order offending.
At he moment any of these that are first offences or at the lower end of the scale go to a Parish Hall Enquiry.
At Parish hall “all” a Centenier can do is, (a take no further action (b) issue a written caution or (c) charge the offender and send them to the magistrates court. If all public order offences went to court the system would be clogged up and justice would grind to a standstill.
Give the Centeniers powers to impose meaningful sanctions for public order offences, Curfews, fines, exclusion orders, community service, etc. Let them do their bit to discourage offenders at the lower end of the scale before they become regulars.
St Helier has a team of 10 Centeniers who I am sure would be only too glad to give their time (free of charge remember)to combat this street crime and violence.
All they need are the tools.
Report abuse
I am sick and tired of seeing almost daily reports of people with previous drug and violent criminal convictions allowed to enter this island unchallanged, and go on to commit yet more crime. We the tax payer then have to pay up for the policing, courts and prison costs in order to bring them to justice!! It’s a joke and there is a simple answer to reducing crime and the prison population in Jersey.
1)A strict immegration / visa entry system (e.g. NZ / Australia)
2)Zero tolerence policing.
3) A visable police presence.
Come on SoJ, it’s not a difficult one.
Report abuse
@ PJG #69
I’m in broad agreement with what you suggest. I don’t want to see the courts clogged up with ‘petty’ issues, but they can’t go without being properly dealt with.
I’d like to see the Police (all 13 forces & the Harbour Master)be given the opportunity to issue on-the-spot fines for things like urinating in the street, littering, abusive language etc.
That way the person has the right and opportunity to dispute the ‘charge’ through he courts, or they can admit guilt and take the responsibility for their actions. The offenses will be on record, and once a person amasses a number of points (or whatever system) they can be hauled before a judge, who will have a comprehensive record of the persons character and behavioral history (of sorts)
Report abuse
J Lamborrari #71
We agree we need to hit the offenders where it hurts.
Problem one, with the high average disposable income of the jersey club goers, blind, instant fixed penalties will be laughed at, on the other hand an unemployed scroat on a night out gets fined, who suffers except his family ?
Parish Hall Enquiries could differentiate on ability to pay, and one must never forget the “inconvenience factor” of having to go the PHE or court.
Report abuse
@ PJG #72
I don’t see any simpler more practical way to punish a person other than some form of fixed penalty; yes those that can afford it will be more able to take the punishment, but what’s the alternative? Do you think it would be fair to charge one person more for illegally parking his BMW, than another man for illegally parking his Ford?
I do agree with inconvenience factor in punishment, but I’d prefer to see a repeat offender sent off to complete a day long ‘citizen class’ where they discuss the kind of harm the actions they’re there for and perhaps come out better able to understand the responsibilities they have.
I’m sure that a lost Saturday’s golf will be more impact than any reasonable fine for the wealthy, and equally irksome for a poorer person to miss a day at the beach.
Failure to comply would see them in court.
Report abuse