Search launched for 500 town parking spaces
Wednesday 10th February 2010, 2:57PM GMT.
Deputy Ben Fox.
IT can be hard enough to find one parking space in town, but the Parish of St Helier is currently looking for 500.
Deputy Ben Fox is leading parish staff on a tour of the new St Thomas’ Residents Parking Zone tomorrow morning to try to find some more spaces.
The scheme opened less than a month ago, but there are at least 50 people on the waiting list for a permit already.
Deputy Fox says that the answer might be to try to add to the 300 spaces currently within the zone, which runs from the Parade to Clarendon Road and from the middle of town to Rouge Bouillon, and he has set himself the target of finding another 500.
The Deputy said: ‘Back in the mid-1970s, when I was on the police motorbikes, our inspector, Jim Marsh, sent us out to go and find some extra spaces that were yellow lines at the time and over a two-week period we found around 500, if my memory serves me right.
‘Times have changed and roads have changed and there are wider pavements, but in residential areas I would have thought that there would have been quite a lot.’
See Wednesday’s JEP for full story.
Where could the Deputy find the extra spaces? Post your comments below.
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I’m not sure if I understand this correctly but is the proposal to remove a further 500 spaces currently available for everyone and designate them residents parking only?
If so I hope they don’t, the residents parking scheme has gone mad taking spaces from all over Cheapside and the Parade area which were previously used by everyone. If you choose to live in town and occupy a property that doesn’t have parking then you are no more entitled to a sapce than the rest of us, we all pay for the spaces through tax on petrol.
You can easily find yourself parking in a space that used to be paycard only to come back and find you’ve been ticketed, it changes from week to week.
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500! He’s living in a different world if he expects to find those as on-street parking.
The only realistic way of finding 500 spaces is to ‘identify’ (as if that hasn’t already been done!) privately owned sites that could be developed into multi-storey car parks.
If he’s serious I could get him room for 1,000 spaces, but he’ll have to support some development, and the Public won’t see any financial benefit; just watch this forum light up with all the normal voices crying greed, when a service is provided for profit; they’ll bleat that it’s too much development… bet they wouldn’t if it was a public project.
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Is there any reason why Green Street car park cannot be extended at the back by building out from the existing levels?
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How many cars were on the roads in the mid seventies ??? we’re talking thirty-five years on get real !!!
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What about the former Ann Street Brewery site, which if I recall correctlywas the subject of a Planning and Enviroment application 3 – 4 years ago
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THANK YOU! A politician that realises people need to park their cars. Howsabout 200 for residents and 300 extra for people trying to shop or work in St. Helier?
While you’re at it, can the Hospital have enough spaces for those who actually need them in Patriotic Street please – many, many developments given the go-ahead in the area but the same number of long-term, Hospital and Blue Badge spaces.
Does anyone remember the phrase Joined Up Thinking. Did anyone ever do it?
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Deputy Fox should have a chat with Constable Jackson – here we have one States member calling out for parking spaces and the other trying to force vehicles out of town. The only workable solution is to build a new multi-storey on the Odeon site and as stated above – extend Green Street car park.
The loss of on-street parking for shoppers who just want to pop in to a shop for a few minutes is becoming a nighmare as well.
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Can I have the £19,800 difference back on the parking space I had to buy in town please?
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People are so lazy they expect to step out of their cars and into the shops. Simply park your car in the designated carparks and walk.
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A computerised car park that stacked vehicles (as operated in Japan and Asia) would use space efficiently and could solve many parking issues.
This however, would require public investment and forward thinking.
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Toastedteacakes: Thank whatever god you believe in that you’re able to park where you can and walk. I would be thrilled to be able to walk from Pier Road again but some of us can’t – and we don’t want to take disabled spaces from those even worse off.
Anyway, what’s wrong with having parking in town -it makes people buy more if they don’t have to carry it far. It’s a town, it used to be for shopping, now it’s for “lifestyle choices” – but nobody told the shopkeepers that they were going to be stabbed in the back.
UK and European cities are desperate to regenerate their shopping areas and get people into them – Jersey’s pushing them out.
Carparks – use existing – build on rear of Green Street or fill in Snow Hill and put lifts in to Fort Regent – hey, I’ve just saved £500k in consultants’ fees. Ben Shenton would be proud…
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Park and Ride at Plemont? should get 500 spaces.
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Planning should have insisted upon underground parking on site applications including parish and state ones. A perfect example was the recent development of a park in front of the Royal Yacht. Three floors of underground parking would have given you 600 parking spaces. No matter what anyone says we are not going to get rid of the motor car unless something really radical happens and no states member would sacrifice their 40k per year plus perks to propose this :-
An absolutely free 24 hour bus service for everyone including visitors. Then, wait for it, only Jersey born males between 25 and 65 allowed to drive private vehicles. Imagine, we would not have to spend millions on Victoria Avenue. An alternative would be that even number plates only went on the road on alternate days and the odd numbers on the other days. To stop individuals having several cars with odd and even plates each owner could hold either odd or even.
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I think there must be some merit in considering the idea put forward by 3. Jojo. Although it would increase congestion which is already pretty heavy during the week around that area, but it must be preferable to allowing more on-street parking.
RB
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toastedteacakes is on the right track. if people are stressed out driving into town, they can try the bus (sometimes), bicycle, or even get a scooter – which have free parking.
town is not just a resource for others to use (although st helier rate payers subsidise everybody else for public buildings and street lighting) it is where many people have to live. and lets be honest, just how many people would choose to live in town if they could afford a house in the country.
so no, i dont think we need more multistorey car parks, we could do with less traffic inbound to st. helier. well, less traffic full stop, but rome wasnt built in a day
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I agree with no.1 – if you have chosen to live in a property which does not have designated parking then sorry but you should have to pay like the rest of us or sell your car.
Surely if you’re living in town already there’s no real need for you to have a car and if you do need to go out of town then I’m sure connex would appreciate the revenue?
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Sod finding space in town.
Build car parks at St Aubin, somewhere near JEC, somewhere else in the east and promote a good park n ride service that will run say from 7-9 am and from 4-7pm. Ensure success by making it cheap, cheap, cheap.
Everyone’s a winner. Space in town for those that need it, quieter, safer roads for the kiddies and elderly, less pollution etc.
But if you insist on something in town…
Multi-story on the esplanade. Dig it out, two levels below surface each holding 100. One on ground level, and 2 floors above. 500 and only 2 levels above ground.
To anyone who doesn’t want the development I say it can only help to block out the hideous waterfront developments from part of town at least.
Also, develop Green St. as a priority.
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Where else but in Jersey can people that buy houses worth £500,000 plus with no parking spaces be given their own parking space outside their house. These people probably bought their house 30 years ago for £2000- £3000 pounds thier not paying mortgages of today. They may not have young children. But someone whose address is Spectrum according to some of our political ones believe that 80 spaces is enough for 235 flats. What planet are they on?
Therefore they accept that they can cherry pick criteria to suit themselves picking up their next votes for election by giving chosen ones cheap parking.
younger people are being disadvantaged paying inflated house prices etc, cost of living has gone up, But their wages have stayed the same. The states keep putting their owrs in.
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@ CP #10
“…This however, would require public investment and forward thinking…”
Only 50% right; a plan for exactly what you’re talking about was submitted by a private developer, but turned down by planning.
The ideas and will and funding is there from the private sector, but you’re right that the planners/politicians lack forward thinking.
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How about double yellow lines, no parking at any time.
Single yellow lines parking allowed from 17.00 to 08.00 ?
Disheartened #16
Why don’t “you” buy a house in town so you can sell your car and use connex ? your crass argument works just as stupidly both ways.
People choose to live in town for all sorts of reasons, same as people who live in the country,RPZs make life just that little bit easier for them. They also stop the tightwad cruising around town looking for a free parking place, emitting CO2 and causing traffic congestion.
The car parks are there for the commuter and shopper, if they are full vent your anger there, not at the residents who need access to their properties 24/7.
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The electorate needs to see right through this as potentially see as a States members way of buying voters to ensure a successful election next year.
To Simon Crowcroft and his cronnies! Well done! Pull the wool over everyones eyes and give and make it difficult even for visitors to visit people that live out side you silly rpz’s.
If I visit some in Spectrum I can no longer park in the parade. I have to park in Patriotic Street. Whoever thought of this idea should be sacked. The Parade should be for visitors of the Gloucester Street area inculding the hospital.
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its a shame that we have elected representatives of the areas in which they are elected. do they do anything? For them? Or understand their needs. Its clear they like a dictatorship. why was the island liberated. Does it need to liberated again.
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@ Rob #21
“…If I visit some in Spectrum I can no longer park in the parade…”
Why don’t you use the visitor parking spaces at Spectrum?
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jo jo(3) yes i have often wondered why this has not happened.
there is a chap in jersey, who has a alternative construction style for car parks, they could be cladded to look like anything you want, you could fit it in between two buildings and make it blend in.
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So St Helier will effectively just be a large car park, streets littered with cars.
Not only will it probably cause even worse traffic problems with poor parking habits commonplace but surely they will be hazardous to pedestrians, especially when trying to cross the road. Will all the cars be forced to park off-pavement on the narrow roads because in some places pedestrians have to walk in the road to get past a parked car on the pavement.
Also, wouldn’t this plan make our invisible traffic wardens redundant….maybe that’s the ploy….save a few quid by losing some more jobs!
Why can’t they just tear down the old Odeon Cinema (it’s a hideous building sitting there doing nothing) or finally sort out Gas Place once and for all to build a new underground car park…..we can then have the public park we’ve been asking for in that area too.
Has all the money that was put aside to boost the economy been spent? if not then this would be a decent project to contribute towards surely?
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in response to no 23 there are no visitor spaces to use. Dandara was not forced to provide any by the planning department.
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j lamborrari you want to get your facts right there are on visitor spaces at spectrum are you on planet pluto
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Car shareing, take the bus, cycle or walk.
Who cares…i dont!
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@ BS Deluxe #25
“…Why can’t they just tear down the old Odeon Cinema (it’s a hideous building sitting there doing nothing) or finally sort out Gas Place once and for all to build a new underground car park…..we can then have the public park we’ve been asking for in that area too…”
Who do you mean by ‘they’? If you mean the SoJ then they don’t own the Odeon building, which is protected by the way, and on a personal note I quite like.
Why no action on Gas Place? could be the huge financial cost of doing it properly; the soil is pretty much toxic, and will need digging out and cleaning at massive expense. ‘They’ could do a cheaper park developement with less parking, and less park, but then the Public will complain about that too. And any loss of parking effects future income.
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Re Spectrum, @ 23: I think the garage is restricted by code access meaning that use of the visitor spaces is similarly restricted to owners/tenants of spaces. I also believe that a proportion of the spaces are used by residents in the other neighbouring developments meaning not all residents have access.
@ 21: I had a fairly big rant about the restriction on parking along Gloucester St but then somebody pointed out to me that the area they have restricted is directly opposite the ambulance access to A&E. Not that I am suggesting that this was their reason for it, but it does make some reasonable sense if this was the case.
RB
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@ richard #26
“j lamborrari you want to get your facts right there are on visitor spaces at spectrum…”
I do want to get my facts right, which is why I asked a question rather than made any statement purporting to be fact.
If, as you state as fact, there are no visitor spaces in the Spectrum development I’d be very surprised. It would be, IMO, be a failing of the planner not to insist visitor parking was provided.
However, (and this is me giving my opinion richard, not stating fact) I suspect that there *was* visitor parking provided in the development, but like in other places I know of the residents use these spaces for their own convenience rather than their actual planned purpose. Then they complain, or their visitors do, that there isn’t enough space.
I think there should be better control of the provision of visitor spaces in new developments, and then better control of their use.
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The visitors to Spectrum in Gloucester Street have a very good choice of carparks. Sand Street and Patriotic Street are ideal and ofcourse the Waterfront carpark is just a few minutes walk.
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Ive just eaten a cheese and ham jacket potato. It was nice.
I also have a car. but I manage to shrink it using my x-ray gun, so it fits into my pocket. I think I may use this same gun on the missus so it shrinks her bum!!
If it works I will let you all know, then rent it out at £10 a shot.
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shouldn’t everyone that does not own a parking space in town be given a fair opportunity to park on street for £206 per year. Whilst there are spaces in multi storey car parks they are not fsee of heavy penalties are they.
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Leave the 4×4 at home and use the bus and no it wont do little Tarquin & Miles any harm to walk to the nearest bus stop to catch the School bus we humans have survived wind and rain for thousands of years stop mollycoddling your children.
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#33 John Rambo
Firstly, great name – proper hero of mine.
Secondly, i’m not a big fan of ham, but cheese jacket potatoes are superb.
Ps. can i borrow your gun, i work with a few of them!!
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I live in town, not out of choice but because any property out of town is WAY out of our price range. Unfortunately our property came without parking, so we have to use residents parking which is brilliant for my family because sometimes we do get to park close to our home, and we work hard to find the extra money each year to pay for the permit as before they were introduced we would end up at the grand hotel and have to walk up new st johns road (at the time it was winter and my youngest was 2 months old) with 3 children and that area is horrible to walk along as the cars go too fast sometimes. Why should we have to sell our car so you can get your free disc spaces back….???? We pay for them and there are plenty of paycard spaces still in the cheapside area that are not always occupied and various other places plus there are still a few disc areas albeit few and far between. If anyone has a 4 bedroom house well away from town for 300,000 then let me know and we will gladly give up our residents space for you but until then we will buy one each year.
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Just as a matter of interest – if you live in town and work in town why do you need a car, if you dont like anyone from outside of st helier using your roads we dont like you using (and littering) ours out of town. you have the best access to busses and the taxis are dominating most of the disabled spaces that used to exist, you have all the facilities yet you want what little accesss we have to get in to town for brief visits to park your car while you walk to work. what gives you the right to a designated parking space! you want us to use the bus why dont you take your own advice or perhaps get on yet bike you chose to live there we dont all have that luxuary
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Other than during celebration periods, is more parking required in the evenings, at weekends, or is it just 8-6? From what I can see 8-6 is when the buses run their fullest service so is the answer not to make it a good idea for people to bus into work? And I don’t mean pricing people out of using cars I actually mean improving the experience of using public transport.
As for some other comments, we live and work in St Helier but we still need a car and, therefore, a parking space. The buses run their smallest service at the times that we would be visiting friends and family in other parts of the island.
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#38
People that live in St. helier didnt necessarily chose to live in St. Helier It is the only parish where flats are more affordable. Why should that deter them from having what people that live in country parishes have they all have some form of free parking dont they. But in St. Helier they dont They issue fines penalising people the very people that live there.
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#38 Sam
I take it you have your own parking area in your out of town home then. I very rarely use your roads and never litter!
I stay at home to look after my children, take them to activities and collect and do errands for elderly relatives. So i do need my car.
I don’t expect to have parking when living in town but to have it close to where i live is great. As i said in my last post there are still spaces closer to the town center still available and they are closer than the cheapside residents spaces. We did not choose to live in town it is because there were more expensive properties out of town.
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It’s about time they built a clutter of family homes with parking spaces in St. John, St. Peter and St. Ouen. Then at least those of us happy to live in town can be left in peace.
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1. Green Street car park developed or even re-developed to produce a suitable town centre multi storey car park for the 21st century.
2. Fort regent swimming pool development plus additional public parking.
3. Some town roads turned into one sided parking for residents as part of a new one-way rotary system.
4. Double or triple certain parking spaces with modern shelf parking machines for internal and external areas.
Nobody appears to really want a solution to this problem, more talk less action.
Give someone the task not a committee.
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I am surprised none of you out of towners who want to park anywhere they like on their forages to the metropolis aren’t complaining about the free parking that comes with states housing.
If you lot are paying for them with your taxes why don’t you park on their driveways ?
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There are quite a few empty carpark spaces in States Housing complexes. A lot of the residents in States housing do not drive and therefore do not need a space.
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You are all missing the point!
Planning policy dicates that offices, shops etc should be in town. Very difficult to build these outside of town with current policies.
Planning Policy dictates that within the ring road only one car per “dwelling” or less is necessary. A dwelling can be a bedsit or 5 bedroom house.
Public transport is unreliable, if you do choose it, then you have to stand out in the rain, the cold, and wait (lack of shelters, due to width of lanes, no footpaths etc). Yes, many people do, but its not comfortable and in the 21st Cent, people want to be comfortable.
Planning Policy and public opinion require no more development in the green zone, so flats it is in St Helier. Demolish old buildings, build new flats or refurbish old buildings.
If you live (own or rent) in town, and work in town, you don’t need a car. If you want to visit any beaches or attractions outside St Helier you use public transport. But you are restricted what you or your children are allowed to carry on the bus, (boogy boards etc, see previous news articles) are not welcome.
Planning policy assumes many things and in doing so, dictates how you will live your life if you live in St Helier.
Planning policies relating to shops, offices, residential developments, public transport, car parks etc all needs joined up thinking. Some may suggest that policies are already joined up thinking, if they were, then this news item would not have been written.
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“If you live (own or rent) in town, and work in town, you don’t need a car.” I take it this is what you believe the Planning Dept think, as opposed to this being your personal view?
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@Leah Holmes 47.
I think you do need a car and planning do require one space per dwelling, but can and do vary this to zero depending where the development is. The one car space policy applies to developments inside the St Helier ring road.
Another problem is that when car spaces are provided there is no law/policy to enforce the developer to ensure that the space is “given” with the residential unit. In the past a price has been set for a residential unit at going values and then the car parking space is charged on top. Just another way to squeeze the developers returns higher.
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@ Rozeljoe #48
“…Just another way to squeeze the developers returns higher…”
or:
Just another way to offer cheaper home ownership to purchasers who don’t require the parking space.
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On street parking regulations in Jersey are years out of date. On weekdays, as soon as the traffic wardens go home, people park for long periods on yellow lines (and the Police appear to allow it) mostly in places where it is reasonably safe to do so. However, there is increasing dangerous and obstructive parking “out of hours”. The whole system need updating with red or double yellow lines in dangerous places and many more on street spaces where there are now un-necessary yellow lines for some of the day.
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Where are all these people on the waiting list??????? Twice recently I’ve popped to a friends in town in the evening (resident parking time), all the nearest car parks have been full (Val Plaisant, Gas Street, and behind the Odeon), yet street after street of residents parking was full of empty spaces Both times had to park in centre of town for long walk back out to outskirts, walking past dozens and dozens of empty residents parking spaces. Something doesn’t add up!
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Colin #51
“…yet street after street of residents parking was full of empty spaces…”
Does anybody know if the residents parking permits are tied to a vehicle registration plate? and if so, is the registered owner’s address verified against the RPZ?
Could it be that residents are selling their allocation on to commuters?
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Post 52 – You have to show your registration doc and utility bill to prove that you and your car live within the zone, so no residents are selling their permits.
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*I meant ‘are not’
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