How we should remember 9 May
Saturday 20th February 2010, 3:00PM GMT.
From Peter Anthony Troy.
MOST of the comments in the letters page and on the website of the JEP on the vexed subject of a bank holiday to mark the Liberation of Jersey on 9 May 1945 are focused on a day off. The issue is about celebration, not simply a day off work.
The extra bank holiday debate has developed into an embarrassing political row which is in danger of degrading the meaning of Liberation Day.
On 12 May 1945 the then news editor of the JEP, William Troy – my grandfather and a decorated soldier of the First World War – wrote: ‘In a space of just under five years Jersey has passed through experiences never before known in her long history, and among them the German Occupation will rank as a period of trial and anxiety which it is most sincerely hoped will never be repeated. It is now the desire of every true Jerseyman to make this beloved Island one of the best places in the whole world.’
The 65th anniversary is about celebrating the removal of Nazi rule from Jersey (and, indeed, western Europe), and in that process it is about understanding and considering the consequences of the devastating effects of undefeated political extremism, while at the same time remembering the sacrifice of many Islanders who gave their lives so that we can all enjoy freedom of expression. Lest we forget our history.
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As far as I am concerned the victorious powers were also responsible for the rise to power of this extremism due to their extreme reparation demands against a crushed country. Was it any surprise that extremism would take hold in these circumstances when people were starving? AH was even named by time as person of the year in 1938 and was supported by many in the west up till this time, how times changed a year later! Mind you Joe got the title twice once in 1939 and 1942.
I think it would be nice for the authorities to have put business needs second for a change and given a day off in lieu of the day lost, as a gesture of solidarity with the islands work force, and in recognition of five years of occupation. However it has fallen on stoney ground.
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I agree with with the writer of the above except for one small point we were occupied by the German Army some were Nazi the the majority were not It is a disgrace that we were not given a day off to celebrate the end of the occupation and the war in Europe where millions died fighting one of the most evil regimes in history, many Jersey Men died fighting for there country and for our Islands freedom my parents survived that awful time and I was born in the occupation, this period with out a doubt the is the worst time in our history to say we cannot recognise this and celebrate it through an additional bank holiday sadly reflects the way we are today money rules greed is rampant government is for the few not for the majority of islanders how sad my parents would be to see jersey as it is today
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Michael
I fail to understand what a day off has in respect for those millions you speak off. After all they are not here to appreciate it and are irrelevant from your argument. We however are here and the I find it hard to appreciate how an extra day holiday for us fortunate reflects the suffering of those people who were less so. Monday 10th May is totally irrelevant to anything you refer to and is sheer capitalisation.
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You have got a day off on the 9th of May. So celebrate liberation.
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Exactly so Rudolph, as I said in my letter to the JEP, there are 104 days of weekend a year; if anyone wants to celebrate the notion of freedom only in their leisure time as opposed to at all times then they are free to do so without costing everyone £1.5 Million…
NJ.
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Yes people could make use of one of their precious days off. However there are @240 days a year that the powers that be expect people to work. Is this a work life balance? I believe many would say not.
If you look at the rest of Europe Britain lags miserably behind as regards most countries Bank holiday entitlement. 8 versus 14 or so in other more socially orientated countries. Do people seriously believe 9 days bank holiday every year in Jersey is going to break the bank? Even Guernsey, who aren’t as rich as Jersey, have had the grace to give a day in lieu.
Vorlon not having the 10th May as a bank holiday is shear capitalism in my book. It gives the message out that Jersey is too tight to give its workers a day in lieu IMHO.
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“Vorlon Quote” I fail to understand what a day off has in respect for those millions you speak off.? After all they are not here to appreciate it and are irrelevant from your argument
“Michael” It may have escaped your notice but without those millions who suffered and died in the most appalling and cruel circumstances you would not be here and free to write your drivel
If we can not have a day in lieu for our freedom from tyranny then why do we have lieu days for Christmas Easter etc as I stated in my early post money rules greed is rampant government is for the few not for the majority of islanders Vorlon post and attitudes only confirms my views!!!!
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I use the term Nazi rater than German deliberately in order to stress that the war was against Nazi (fascist) ternary. Thank you for your supporting comments.
I am trying to move the debate onto the ground of significance rather than a question of a day off. It has to be with regret that the corporate world in Jersey – with only two exceptions – is moaning about a loss of income over an other bank holiday.
I have today written two two CEO’s in response to their published comments about the cost of bank holidays; I reminded them of the cost of forgetting our Island’s history.
If the actuality of rule by political extremists is not remembered and understood political extremism will again take hold and people will be in fear of their lives if the speak out. One does not have to read any serious newspaper for long to find examples of thisin today’s world.
Whilst people go about their every day lives they can not be expected to stop and think of the horrors that were inflicted by the Army of Fascist Nazi German in Jersey from June 1940 to May 1945. A special bank holiday would mark the event as a very special anniversary.
Those that do not appreciate the special significance of Liberation day have my sympathy – since they fail to understand that the freedom they enjoy has been paid for at a huge price in human suffereing.
Peter Anthony Troy
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Adolf Hitler was asked nervously by his Generals what the world would think if they carried out his orders to kill every man, woman and child in Poland who stood in the way of the blitzkrieg. “Who, after all, speaks today of annihilation of the Armenians?” Hitler said.
In our case of our Liberation from the yoke and oppression of the German Nazi Government is on the 9th May.
We should not forget the past, but remember the past to help create a better present, and to reconcile.
Jersey is moving forward, and towards independence and a stronger international identity. The education minister has recently encouraged all school children to learn and sing our new ‘National anthem’. The Treasury Minister will in a month or so we have the new banknotes issued, which for the first time in the history of Jersey banknotes have both French and Jersey-French on the banknotes.
This day should be a Public Holiday or National Holiday irrespective whether it falls on a Sunday or not.
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Adrian
“having the 10th May as a bank holiday is shear capitalism in my book. It gives the message out that Jersey is too tight to give its workers a day in lieu IMHO”
No, it’s just another day but your post is a classic example of the confused nature of the pro holiday for 10th May campaign. Not having a day off on 10th May has nothing to do with what 9th May stands for yet you and Michael seem to think it is more important and that capitalism (yet again) is the reason we’re not having one. Also every time you promote 10th May you erode the 9th May and what it means.
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joker does anyone think any the less of Christmas when it falls on a Sunday? I don’t think so. The main thing is that it is remembered and a day given in lieu for it making it have a value. The way things are it has been cheapened by big business who don’t value it prefering to take a day’s holiday from all those who don’t work on a Sunday. This is the trouble money comes first all the time now.
I myself think it is pathetic if businesses have to be forced to give a day’s holiday. As far as I am concerned any company that gives a day in lieu is a decent company to work for. They are showing respect for Jersey’s national day.
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P.S. joker how can it be shear capitalism to have a day off from work? This is surely the opposite as work takes second place to the national holiday every year regrdless of which day of the week(end) it falls on..
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In his letter Peter Troy in discribing the German Occupation quotes :
“experiences never before known in her{Jersey’s) long history”
The debate about an extra Bank Holiday is also becoming very long and like the occupation lacking in pleasure. If the issue had been decided last year and the May Day Holiday had been put back a week to be called Liberation May Day Bank Holiday would that have been a simple solution?
What extra events are taking place this year to mark this special event? How many of the newcommers to the Island know of the significance of this date? What is planned for Liberation week-end?
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Adrian #11 & 12
“joker does anyone think any the less of Christmas when it falls on a Sunday? I don’t think so.”
I agree, whatever people think or believe about Christmas day I don’t think they do either if it falls on a Sunday. Same as they don’t think any less of Liberation Day if it falls on a Sunday so I don’t know what point you are trying to make.
“The main thing is that it is remembered and a day given in lieu for it making it have a value”
It is remembered and it is valued but I don’t see how a day off in lieu values it any more? It does however allow families and friends to travel to wherever they need to be together without having to take extra days leave from work around the festive period. I’m not convinced that is needed for Liberation Day.
“The way things are it has been cheapened by big business who don’t value it prefering to take a day’s holiday from all those who don’t work on a Sunday. This is the trouble money comes first all the time now.”
Are you referring to a day in lieu? If it’s a day in lieu like I said it adds no ‘value’ to 9th May as it could be taken whenever the person wants. If you’re referring to an extra bank holiday you of all people should know that they have the same working hours and conditions of a Sunday. Therefore those normally expected to work on a Sunday, in hospitality for example, will still have to work the bank holiday except from the fact they might get time and half in pay. You’re constantly moaning how shops etc are closing and now you want to put them under more financial pressure?
“I myself think it is pathetic if businesses have to be forced to give a day’s holiday. As far as I am concerned any company that gives a day in lieu is a decent company to work for. They are showing respect for Jersey’s national day”
Actually some firms do give days off in lieu already at their discretion including celebrations like Battle of Flowers and the Air Display. Despite what you think we’re not all getting screwed by our employer.
“P.S. joker how can it be shear capitalism to have a day off from work? This is surely the opposite as work takes second place to the national holiday every year regrdless of which day of the week(end) it falls on.. ”
I didn’t say that Adrian, I said you were blaming capitalism for not having a day off. Assuming you’re referring to Vorlon’s post, if I understand Vorlon’s post correctly I think they meant those seeking a extra day off are taking 9th May as an emotive hostage for an extra day off. I’m sure that would be true for many, i.e. those that don’t care about 9th May at all. I don’t know how seeking an extra day shows any more respect for 9th May.
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joker one caren’t be more capitalistic than big business can one? So if they don’t want the plebs to have a day off they will make sure of it by lobbeying the CoM and as the CoM are in the main business people what decision do you think they will make?
My points are Lib day should be made a bank holiday then by law a day in lieu of Sunday would be granted just like for every other bank holiday in the year. What makes Lib day different from the others such that sometimes it warrents a day off of work and sometimes it doesn’t, the inconsistancy is pathetic.
To put the boot on the other foot what would big business say if Jersey made an extra bank holiday in the year on top of the 8/9 we get at present? They would be wailing in the streets and claiming economic collapse would result. As you and I know one day off is neither here no there when most are working 240 plus days a year anyway. One day equates to a drop in productivity of less than 0.5% hardly enough to break the bank is it? With the bleeting by big business over Lib day this loss of profit equates to around 0.1%. Maybe 99.9% isn’t enough for some businesses over here?
People like to be appreciated and the little things like a day off this year can go a long way towards making a company a happier place to work and consequently a more productive one.
As a decent employer should know an unhappy workforce leads to a lose of productivity through extra sickness and other associated things hitting the bottom line.
As per financial pressures on shops etc I blame the government. GST will be the death nell of many small businesses over here. I know of some who have shut already due to GST and nothing else. I expect many more to follow suit. Just in case you don’t get it, the recession played no part in their decision to close, it was purely down to being made uneconomic due to the burden of paperwork associated with administering GST and the resultant time lost. I believe the CoM were warned of this possibility. They however decided to bulldoze ahead regardless. Are these the sorts we should be voting in to office to ensure our economic futures? I have to say no!
However certain people think the CoM are marvellous. More fool them is all I can say.
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@ Adrian #15
“…What makes Lib day different from the others such that sometimes it warrents a day off of work and sometimes it doesn’t”
The day on which it falls is fixed. Christmas Day for example is on the 25th December, but when that day falls on a Saturday an extra day is taken off, it’s moveable because it doesn’t actually relate to anything that actually happened on that specific date. What is pathetic is that in effect we have to suffer two days off in those cases, and I agree there should be consistency: Where a holiday is moveable like Good Friday, being X number of Fridays after Pancake Day (or some such nonsense) then we know when that holiday will be, and it’s always a Friday; where the holiday is not moveable, like Liberation Day on the 9th Xmas on the 25th etc. then these days are the holidays, and when they fall on a Sunday then so be it.
Personally the argument about being given a free day off work over this Liberation Day has nothing to do with capitalism or money, it’s about freedom.
By all means lobby for more Public holidays, but don’t use Liberation Day as an excuse, just say you want to work less without it costing you anything, and that you want your employer to foot the bill.
“…As you and I know one day off is neither here no there when most are working 240 plus days a year anyway…”
So why make such a fuss about not being given it for free?
“…I know of some who have shut already due to GST and nothing else…”
Care to name any businesses that have closed solely due to GST?
The bleating over GST is so over-blown, and most people doing the bleating do not understand it, or if they do they know they’re over-egging their argument for their own benefit.
One shop in St Helier, who more than once has been featured in the JEP’s ‘Fair Play’ column for it’s anti GST stance, for example had poster proclaiming that it didn’t charge GST… of course it both did charge GST, and was also more expensive than it’s nearest competition who made no such bold claims in defense of the consumer, and was viewed by many people as over-priced and a rip-off.
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Ah, now we’re getting to the real reasons why you want an extra day off; your posts are now less about arguing your point why you think we should have an extra day off in direct relation to Liberation Day and more about your general anti capitalist/corporate views.
We’d all like an extra day off Adrian, hell why not 5 extra days, but this is not about slamming the corporate world for more time off, this is about making your point as to why we need an extra day off because Liberation Day falls on a Sunday. I don’t believe you or anyone else has provided a sufficient argument as to why we need this extra day off to increase the value of, or make Liberation Day more accessible to celebrate. Instead you seem more interested in using the CoC negative reaction to the day off rather than your own positive basis for an argument. In other words what if CoC had said they were fine with it? You’d have no basis for argument at all.
So until someone can explain to me how and extra day off helps people celebrate Liberation Day anymore than it could be without an extra day off I’ll refer back to my assumption that Vorlon was on about that people ‘capitalising’ on Liberation Day for the sake of an extra days holiday. I don’t have a problem if you or others want to lobby for more days holiday each year, what’s wrong about this is certain people using this poignant day as an excuse to argue for one when Liberation Day can still be celebrated and is accessible to all without one.
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Peter Anthony Troy (truly a name to conjure with!) has written in his supplementary message #8:
“I have today written two two CEO’s in response to their published comments about the cost of bank holidays; I reminded them of the cost of forgetting our Island’s history.”
Had Mr Troy written to me, I would have responded that no one is “forgetting our Island’s history” at all. The event is well embedded in our collective conscience.
However, May 9 is May 9. That was the day that Jersey was liberated. That is immutable and cannot be changed. May 9 is therefore the day to prevent anyone “forgetting our Island’s history”, Mr Troy – not the day before, nor the day after.
As for the financial cost of a “supplementary” Liberation Day, I do not feel myself qualified to comment.
(On another issue, it is so refreshing to see the author of a letter published here following its subsequent debate and taking part in that discussion. Well done, PAT!)
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Bunch of skivers. We should have less days off a year not more!!! Waste of money and they only want the 10th off so they can drink themselves into oblivion to help them forget their miserable little lives! Most of the people moaning about losing a day off, or a “Sacred Bank Holiday” as they would have us believe (celebrate Lib day on SUNDAY the 9TH), are the same ones whinging about taxes being increased all the time and that things need to change in Jersey, well they are, you need to start WORKING for a living now and not expect everything for nothing, get over it you bunch of lazy losers, HA HA, NO EXTRA DAY OFF!
We should also increase the average length of the working day to 18hrs a day and make the plebs work a minimum of 300 days a year. And i like the point made by quite a few about Christmas day, if it falls on a Sunday…. NO extra bank holiday there either! Lets see how the peasants like that!!!
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#19
The Protestant Work Ethic explained in two paragraphs!
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Baz – please tell me that post was sarcastic…
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The majority work on 11th Novemeber but we all remember. May 9th the majority are off we can still remember even if at work. We do not need an additional day.
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Jersey needs a day off for all Jersey born to go to the pub and buy every English Scottish Welsh, in fact everybody who is not Jersey born except of course the Germans, Italians etc from the other, defeated side. To thank them, for being liberated by them, from the others.
Does anybody know the percentage per capita of Jersey war dead compared with the same percentage UK war dead ?
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PJG My father is Jersey born and fought in the Second World War as a British Soldier. Will he have to buy a drink for his “liberators” or will he be exempt?
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Liberation day is a special day – It is not a part of the UK national bank holiday calendar we follow. Please stop cheapening our liberation day with this debate. If you just want an extra day off work be honest and start a campaign for an extra holiday in the middle of summer. But don’t forget that we will all eventually have to pay for this day off through higher prices and additional taxation.
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Of course the clever companies will give their staff the day off.
It’s basic management theory. Grateful staff are happy staff, happy staff speak kindly of their company and feel privileged to be working wherever they are.
But no, call them work-shy scroungers that will make them work harder. Make them feel hard done by that will really get them going the extra mile. Incidentaly happy employees are more likely to do extra time so in the grand scheme of things that one day off could more than pay for itself.
Just my opinion, I’m unbiased as I don’t work in the island.
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baz why don’t you go the whole hog and get people working from when they are born to when they die 24/7? Do a proper job and maximise the profits of big business?
Don’t think big business wouldn’t want this if it were viable. As far as I am concerned they care not for an individual’s quality of life, only their own profit margins. This is where it is all wrong. The greed factor is too great it can only end in tears.
joker Jersey has nine official holidays every year. It should be nine every year not nine most of the time. This is the reason a day in lieu of Lib Day should be given.
Would you be happy if your employer counted Sunday’s as a day’s annual leave, if you didn’t work on a Sunday, as part of your job? As far as I am concerned this is pathetic and big business comes out looking like Scrooge.
PJG at least the rest of Britain had five years freedom instead of five years occupation. There are two sides to every story.
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“Jersey has nine official holidays every year. It should be nine every year not nine most of the time. This is the reason a day in lieu of Lib Day should be given”
Yes but Jersey does not have nine statutory holidays every year.
“Would you be happy if your employer counted Sunday’s as a day’s annual leave, if you didn’t work on a Sunday, as part of your job? As far as I am concerned this is pathetic and big business comes out looking like Scrooge”
I’m not sure what annual leave has got to do with celebrating Liberation Day? If it means a lot to a person working on a Sunday they can ask for the day off, same way they’d have to ask for the day off if Monday was given as a holiday because it would be classed as Sunday trading.
I’m still waiting on your argument supporting 10 May as a holiday which doesn’t involve the economy or “big business”.
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Alexa #24
exempt
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@ Adrian #27
“…Jersey has nine official holidays every year. It should be nine every year not nine most of the time…”
There are a number of ways round this problem of what you feel you’re entitled to with regards to not bothering to work as much, but I’ve though of another one that I think makes more logical sense than the current system and will (I would imagine make you happy, as you get even more days off!)
Lets have a system with 12 Bank/Public holidays a year.
The first Monday(or Friday) in each month becomes a holiday; it’s regular so easily to rota around for businesses and schools etc. and doesn’t mean long periods between holidays, and then 3 in May like at present.
This also has the advantage of making things like Easter and Christmas truly religious holidays, as only those that feel strongly enough about their religion to opt to take holidays at these times will do so.
“…Would you be happy if your employer counted Sunday’s as a day’s annual leave, if you didn’t work on a Sunday, as part of your job?…”
Yes. That’s how it’s been at more than one job I’ve had in the past.
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