Unemployment at 30-year high
Friday 26th February 2010, 3:00PM GMT.
Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf
UNEMPLOYMENT figures in Jersey have soared to their highest level for 30 years.
According to official statistics released this morning, 1,200 people were registered as unemployed at the end of January – the highest number since 1980. Since the recession began in 2008, the number of people out of work has climbed steadily by 360 a year.
The group hardest hit by the downturn seems to be teenagers, who are finding it increasingly difficult to get a job. Of the 1,200 people on the register, 770 were listed as actively seeking work – and of those people, a quarter were aged between 16 and 19.
Although there have been slight changes to the way that the figures are collected, the statistics suggest that this is the worst recession to hit Jersey in modern times.
However, Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf insisted that fiscal stimulus measures – to kick-start the economy and keep people in work by bringing forward £44 million of public spending – were working and that Jersey was weathering the downturn well.
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Do the rebels within the States know about this yet?
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And they still let foreign immigrants in.
Doing the job for half price.
Sending the cash back home.
Paying no income tax.
Milking the system.
Bringing over their families.
Free treatment at hospital.
Better not say any more lest i,ll be classed as xenophobic.
Not blaming them,just gov who allow it to happen
Jobs for locals first and foremost.Simple
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One thing missing from this statistic.
30 years ago there were not 100,000 living here so 1,200 percentage wise has to be less now.
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Once again the people running this island dont understand the people of jersey.
We pay more than the average person in the uk for our food,clothes,house’s and many more items thus making us buy on the internet meaning local shops have to close down rents are far to high shops have to clos down people all over europe come and work here locals miss out.
Many friends are leaving this island
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Yep Jersey is weathering the downturn well Mr Ozouf in the same way the Titanic need not be afraid of icebergs.
The situation for those looking for work is grim with their numbers increasing by the day. Shops are closing, the states are sacking people by the truckload ( sorry making redundant ) and meantime valuable contracts are going off island.
Yes a sucess by any standard – “don’t panic Mr mainwaring”
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“Of the 1,200 people on the register, 770 were listed as actively seeking work”. Surely, if you’re not looking for work, you’re not unemployed, you’ve just chosen not to work. Or have the others given up all hope of working?
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Things only work, Mr O’zouf, for those who remain unaffected.
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& these are the ones registered!!
how many others are there like students studying because there is no work for them?
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As my mate Del would say “quel fromage” !!!
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Unfortunately Mr Ozouf hasn’t got a clue if the monies released in the stimulus package have actually saved anybody’s job. In fact I would suggest that the way the States have spent the money most of which have been on their own projects has actually been used to carry out works which were in their budgets anyway!.
Some of the companies whom have benefited from the monies have in fact now laid off the temporary staff they took on. So who benefited?
The States Departments who have not had to use some of this year’s budgets but will still keep the savings under their control and the businesses that have made a profit on the work.
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As there is no obligation to register unemployed, how can these statistics be taken seriously. As for the treasury ministers words, read for same tiresome spin, empty platitudes backed by no content. Plus ca change!! There would appear to be a growing trend towards unacceptable youth unemployment, which in turn will bring about greater social problems. He (Ozouf) for one has no answers and within the chamber there would appear would appear to be even fewer options. Sitting in the bubble of a well paid job will generally bring about complacency, and the club 18 to 80 is rife with prevarication, fence sitting and general ennui. These are serious issues stacking up for future problems. Inertia and ineptitude are not reasonable excuses.
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Mr K Channing – You don’t live in the UK. You live on a small Island. Like all Islands and isolated communities things are more expensive but offer a fantastic quality of life. If you want quantity go and live in a big city. It is the people who continually moan who don’t understand the benefits of our Island.
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In two months time they will have to add a Senator to the unemployment statistics.
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Well we better stop letting people in the island and if a local can do a job a non local is currently doing then the non local can go play stocks and shares in the UK instead of Jersey.
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It was only earlier this week that we were being informed that Mr Ozouf was planning a big hike in the pay levels of senior states management.In the real world we are all having to tighten our belts.Stupidity with setting the minimum wage so high for 16 year olds has resulted in the obvious increase in unemployment among the young.
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Sorry, but I wonder how many people that actually come from Jersey make up these figures? I hope Jersey isn’t handing out to foreignors.
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I disagree with rico I think he is basically the only member of our government that actually cares about our lives rather than our finance industry.
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There will never be a true figure in Jersey because of the way Social Security works and who is actually eligible to “sign on”.
Maybe one should ask, how many are employed and how many are underemployed, spending their savings to survive. Savings that would normally go on a house deposit. This creates a problem further down the road, when pensions won’t cover rent (not that they do now) and all savings for tomorrow have gone to pay todays living costs.
The politicans and policy makers of decades past are now seeing the true test of those policies. In trying times, they are not sustainable. What will be the state of the Island be in 10 or 20 years time?
What is the plan if the finance industry evaporates? Or do the powers that be think that will never happen. I see no investment now in alternative island income and financial diversity.
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There is plenty vacancies in hospitaly?
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The 16 to 19 year olds are too busy on face book 24/7 rather than wanting to work. If you saw that programme on tv the other day it showed that immigrants worked hard and the locals were a waste of space. Locals should not be work shy when it comes to the jobs they leave for the immigrants. Time to get of their lazy backsides and work them fields ,hotels and toilet cleaning….i would if i was unemployed.
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Rico 15 – “Sorry, but I wonder how many people that actually come from Jersey make up these figures? I hope Jersey isn’t handing out to foreignors”
Grammatical errors aside, I would hope that Jersey is paying beneift to anyone who has contributed to the social security system no matter their nationality. Or would you have the state accept tax and social security payments from non indiginous individuals with no thought in mind to renumeration when appropriate?
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If income support was not as generous, then there would be fewer unemployed.
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Islanders should be given first priority over any jobs that become available.I know many people who are out of work and looking for retail jobs.Most of these jobs have been filled by Polish people who have recently arrived in the Island.I have nothing against the Poles who are hard working and very polite,but not the point.It is time the States put down some ground rules regarding who gets these jobs until the situation improves.
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Yes things are going so well that there are only 1,200 out of work. Yet more spin IMHO.
I would like to know how he proposed to save £50M when he is papering over the cracks with £44M.
Sanity Jersey had a fantastic quality of life 20-30 years ago. However this is rapidly becoming a piece of nostalga. It is well on its way to getting ruined. Nevermind at least a few have done well from this bubble, shame about the rest IMHO.
RozelJoe there is no plan for when finance leaves from what I can see. As I said before it is finance, finance and finance. Putting all your eggs in one basket is asking for trouble in my opinion but it appears those in charge know better!
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Camelia 23 – I couldn’t agreew with you more but we can’t penalise those already here. We must shut the gate and cherry pick those who come in. We should have done this 20 years ago, we should certainly not let anyone in with a criminal record as a basic requirement.
Since everyone I know agrees with this why does the island’s government not implement this policy?
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Camelia but do Islanders want to be waiters? Cleaners? Farmers? Or should the immigrants keep those jobs and leave the nicer ones in Retail for the Islanders?
I believe a lot of these unemployed people are genuinely looking for a job but I would bet the majority are just happy living off the States. Nowt to do with the immigrants.
2. Bella. Paying NO Tax? Well I be damned, where can I go to stop paying tax then?
Sending cash back home? How evil of us to try and help our families. Once we pay tax and social security it is none of your business what we do with our money. Isn’t it enough that we pay rent, shop here, go clubbing here and pretty much spend most of our wages here?
Milking the system, sure because there are not locals doing just the same. I know a few that finished school, got pregnant right away and live off the states from then on. Sure there are some immigrant spongers but this is not exclusive to them.
Who exactly works for half price? How can they do it? I mean the people who work for the ”right” price struggle yet I am to believe that the immigrants come here, work for half price and even manage to send lots of money back home. I must be doing something wrong as I am an immigrant and don’t get to do any of the things you listed. What a bad immigrant I am.
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21 Mulvie
“I would hope that Jersey is paying beneift to anyone who has contributed to the social security system no matter their nationality”.
…..and those who haven’t contributed????? Do you think we should sustain every Tom, Dick & Harry who hops off the boat?
23 Camelia
I believe the authorities should pay more attention to recruitment in certain industries / companies too.
I’ve heard of one large internet retailer based in Jersey where the recruiting officer is Polish and blatantly only employs Polish staff!
This is discrimination and is illegal in employment terms!
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Annie (14) “Well we better stop letting people in the island and if a local can do a job”
But Annie you are being too simplistic for our political masters. With two, yes two enforcement officers on the job, we still has essentially employed immigrant labour who struggle to speak plain English.
It is the gang masters who control immigration into Jersey and I am sure that they are out there now recruiting the next wave of hapless immigrants who will work below the radar, be crammed into boarding houses, contribute little other a further drain on our health services.
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#27 I saw a job in retail advertised that said “must be fluent in Polish”. I was gobsmacked since I use similar (Jersey-owned) shops almost daily and none of the staff there are fluent in English! Clearly the job can be carried out in a ‘satisfacty’ manner without the staff memeber speaking the same language as the customer.
#23 Islanders are given priority over work (the 5-year rule), I can only guess that the rule doesn’t apply to more menial work because locals haven’t tended to show an interest in these jobs? The one place that does seem to ignore its duty to the locals is the big industry, but those immigrants tend not to get so much hassle for some reason.
As for foreigners saying locals are lazy, I think in many cases they simply fail to understand that there is a different culture in Jersey. Jersey uses the UK education system which now raises kids believing that they must go to university to get a good job, and they certainly must go to university if they ever want to afford to buy a house, be a worthwhile person etc. And so kids go to university. Unsurprisingly they don’t then expect to work in a field, it’s snobbery yes, but it’s the way they are raised and they will be looked down on by their peers if they work in a field. Never mind that people will not want to waste their degree.
Immigrants have often come from places where the economy has been dire for decades and so they have been raised simply to work. None of the immigrants I’ve met so far has a university education, although presumably where they come from there are many with a higher education, they are pretty much doing the same jobs they did back home. Unlike with Jersey people they won’t suffer abuse from their peers for labouring or cleaning, they will simply be applauded for working. I’m not saying the Jersey attitude is right, but (like in the UK) Governments are to blame for making it that way! Plenty of Brits have worked fields abroad (usually Australia) that wouldn’t do the same back home in Britain.
I’m ‘glad’ to say I’ve worked with some excellent locals and some very lazy immigrants (AND vice versa), people are just people.
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#23 Camelia, BS is right, I have also come across Madeirans who are quite blatant that they will only employ other Madeirans and likewise with some Polish managers. In some cases this simply means the person will never be promoted to a position where they can hire staff, but other employers clearly aren’t as sensible.
It is high time a check was done on companies to ensure that no-one was picking their staff solely by nationality.
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BS Deluxe 27 – I don’t recall saying that those who have not contributed should receive any benefit, I plainly said that those who have contributed should receive benefit irrespective of nationality.
Conversely I don’t think anyone who has not paid into the system should get a penny out of it, locals included.
Incidentally I didn’t know there was a benefit system in Jersey, is this a recent addition? I recall when I was unemployed in the 90′s I got nothing exept handouts from friends – kept me looking for waork I can tell you.
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27
I,ve heard that too about employing the same for building .
Give them half the wages of locals but the price of houses don,t come down no wonder the bosses employ them.
And locals with a jersey passport can,t get work in any other European country—–Glad I don,t have a jersey passport I would be kicking up merry hell of the unjutice of it all.
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#If you read my post correctly you will see I wrote they are STILL letting in foreign immigrants,I’m not talking about the ones here and i,m not talking or writing about Madeirians,But these newcomers who come here do 3 or 4 jobs bring their family over if it suits,or if not go to the UK if they can get a better deal.
Even in UK they claim child’s allowance for their kids back home,i don,t know about jersey.
A couple i met recently even said they were testing the water before they decide to settle or not.
Got nothing against foreign labour and class them as locals if they live and work here,but newcomers when their is no work for locals?
Gov allowing it?
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I know many teenagers and sadly, many only want to work the hours they want and only do jobs that they they believe are not beneath them. When you live on an island with a finite number and types of businesses, beggars can’t be choosers. It’s time to get realistic if you want money to hang out with friends, buy the latest electronics , wear the cool clothes, save up for that scooter or car or even save up money for university. Some of these teens also haven’t a clue how to get a job or how to interview. I’ve seen them try – in fact it’s quite painful to see. There are services out there – career counselors, the Advance to Work scheme- and other adults in their lives who can help them put their best foot forward. They can improve their own chances to find work, some of them just need a change in attitude and action.
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These figures are worth very little. As there is no unemployment benefit in Jersey many who have lost their jobs don’ bother to register. We don’t know how many have simply packed up and left the island. What’s that phrase again about lies and statistics……
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Well 23,27,29 you are all right, I have come across this situation first hand. You just have to look at some of the islands main retailers.
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absolutely amazed by the xenophobic comments found in this thread.
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#26 made me chuckle. ‘Do Islanders want to be waiters’
I lived in Cayman for a while and very few of the locals there wanted anything to do with the hospitality industry. They thought it was beneath them. They imported Jamaicans. I think we know who Jersey imported.
Must be an Island thing.
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As a local, I can confirm that I know of several businesses that look upon being local as a disadvantage. Experience has shown that non-locals tend to be more determined and harder working than locals, and this applies from labourers to lawyers.
It applies in my own life where my wife far outshines me in the workplace, despite the fact that I have had advantages that she didn’t have.
A look at the posts on this thread sum this up exactly: you would think all Jersey people believe they have a right to a job and a decent house, simply because they are “Jersey”.
Rather than complaining about letting people who want to work in, we should be trying to find a way to get the whingers to leave.
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Comment 39
Amen to that!
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Mulvie 31
I never said you did….I was simply flipping the question back to you (although I may have been a bit OTT with the question marks, sorry). Incidentally, I do agree with your comment…those who have contributed should be helped in times of need and those who haven’t should earn it in some way.
I KNOW there are people in Jersey who receive benefits but have not contributed to the system….I’ve seen it first hand where a young family had returned from Europe after 7 years and received full benefits, housing and even cash to buy “white goods”…all within a couple of months! This whilst I and my recently made redundant fiancee (who had both paid into the system for years) received no help whatsoever and struggled on one salary!
“Incidentally I didn’t know there was a benefit system in Jersey, is this a recent addition? I recall when I was unemployed in the 90’s I got nothing exept handouts from friends – kept me looking for waork I can tell you.”
I’m not sure if this comment you made was directed at me or the forum in general. If it’s the former then you might be pleased to know it wasn’t me that initially mentioned benefits…i took the quote form your post 21
Although I do believe there is a “Job Seekers” allowance available now. Again, my fiancee was not entitled to this because I was lucky enough to be in work……it seems the authorities are happy to TAKE our taxes as INDIVIDUALS but do not RETURN the “social security” to the INDIVIDUALS, who have paid, in times of need…yet they are happy to throw all sorts of cash to others willing to sit on their backsides and squeeze out a few sprogs every now and again!
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Well said no 39. Jersey does produce world-class whingers.
Unlikely if any will leave permanantly though, because if they cannot compete at home they certainly will not abroad, and they will be back with even bigger chips on their shoulders within a few years.
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37.oobunillaoo
‘absolutely amazed by the xenophobic comments found in this thread’.
Hang around and keep reading, there’s loads more where this lot came from. This website is a meeting place for whingers claiming to represent the entire island population and spouting rubbish about how the immigrants take local jobs, sponge benefits, spend all day getting legged on their money, etc. Same old tosh every time.
26. Fatima. Excellent post. You may have noticed if you read this website regularly that the immigrants get blamed for most of the island’s problems. They take ‘locals’ jobs, put pressure on local services, increase public spending etc. The fact that the ‘locals’ don’t want certain jobs or aren’t qualified to do others escapes them every time.
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#37 Don’t read the vacancies page for certain retailers then, it will really make you sick.
As for people sending money back home, of course it doesn’t matter on an individual basis and people have every right to help out their families. It should, however, matter to a Government and policies should take this possibility into account. Any Government should be aiming to keep as much money in the island as possible, they wouldn’t be doing their job if they didn’t.
#39 Thankfully I haven’t met a single Jersey person who thinks they have a right to a job and a decent house simply because they are “Jersey”, most of my Jersey friends have built up their own businesses from scratch and still work blinking hard. It seems to be an opinion that gets touted on here a lot by non-locals but I wonder if there is anyone who actually stands by it or if it being on here is enough to make non-locals believe that this is the way locals think.
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“Although there have been slight changes to the way that the figures are collected,”
Oh, I see. I didn’t realise that there was a new method of adding up?! Silly me.
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The increase is partly due to increased immigration.
In my job I have met a number of people who came here in the last year, initially worked and now out of work, are living on income support rather than leaving.
The same applies to the increased number of people living on the street.
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“Thankfully I haven’t met a single Jersey person who thinks they have a right to a job and a decent house simply because they are “Jersey””
They are easy to spot – around election time they wear rosettes with “JDA” written on them and they bang on about the establishment (aka people with jobs).
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“In particular, our policy is not to allow defamatory, gratuitously offensive, factually inaccurate or self-promotional statements to be posted.”
Is that so, this ranting is so similar to the crap you hear in the southeast of the United States. Blame your problems on minorities and the underprivileged, while you whine to your e-friends, those you are complaining about are carrying your tiny island on their broad shoulders.
If you want to work, stop being ignorant and racist, and realize 30 years ago there was no global economy like there is now.
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Did anyone see that recent BBC 1 programme investigating whether foreigners really were taking “locals” jobs in Wisbech, Cambridgeshire? The upshot was that many of the locals simply weren’t fit for work of any sort, either by inability or inclination or a combination of the two. It was a depressing picture of how these people’s parents, the educational system and their own lack of drive had left them nearly unemployable. There is core of the unemployed over here who fall into a similar category and who are a long way from being employable and need help to gain basic skills needed for the workplace.
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Ah good to see the CoM’s mouth piece back in action.
The bottom line is that businesses will go to the bottom line on costs. Therefore being local is a disadvantage as regards being a worker. Fine and dandy if you are an employer because you get people on the cheap don’t you?
Why pay £10 an hour to someone, who is than than likely a local person, even if you can afford to, when you can employ someone for £5 an hour, who more than likely won’t be local because the locals couldn’t afford to live on such poor wages?
Also with cheaper labour they can probably get them to do things more expensive labour wouldn’t entertain. Please remember the labour laws in Jersey are not as tight as in the UK or EU.
As per Jersey people thay are just the same as people anywhere else. They expect:-
a reasonable wage,
decent affordable housing,
a decent quality of life,
a government that helps then to achieve things.
What would be the result if any nation had:-
mass migration,
loss of identity, customs, language, etc,
high unemployment of the indigenous population?
How do you think things would pan out?
Would there be social unrest or not?
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Adrian…spot on some think dandara is a good thing for Jersey as an employer…employing who..?those who would otherwise Not be here..so what’s that all about,,the fiscal stimulus package is going out to u.k. companies..the wages and money go as well. Surely the return of the winter work scheme should have been paramount in these times of highest unemployment for thirty years….priorities….where are ours ?…and why is it that the man in the street always actually knows what is wrong and what indeed would put it right…but oh no don’t listen to them get in some outsider who knows Jack about living here and cares less.we just give ‘em the money ,get what we don’t want and they’re off or worse want to stay,so you just created another layer of population when we are down at the gunnels already,the infrastructure is creaking ask anyone waiting to see a hospital specialist or for a Hip.these politico’s are beguiled by the developers and I do not apologise for saying what everyone on the street knows.
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49 Adrian
There would be a civil war…..and mark my words, it’s coming if things carry on as they are!
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No 49.
If businesses were forced to employ lazy unmotivated locals instead of willing hardworking immigrants, the consequences for tourism/retail/agriculture and the service sector would be dire. It is not just a case of much higher hourly wage rates, businesses would have to employ more locals to do the same amount of work to cover absenteeisim and lower productivity. Many businesses would go under, and others would pass on the the increased costs to the final consumer, resulting in higher inflation – another mail in the coffin for Jersey’s economy.
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If any small Islands anywhere in the world had a downturn in their economy and local jobs were at risk the first thing the government would do is put a block on immigrant labour.What do our Government do?Zilch!All down to Human Rights,ie the right to work anywhere.But why does that not apply to certain Jersey Passport holders?Camelia.
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#47 Nice one
#43 I get to hear immigrants moaning about other immigrants taking ‘their jobs’, that’s real fun! Used to hear it in Glasgow as well though.
The locals do get some really disgusting stuff levelled at them on here so it’s probably ‘evens’. Large waves of immigration will always cause tension with both locals AND with other immigrants already settled there. It’s a human flaw not a Jersey one.
My Jersey friend got made redundant in the UK, and eventually had to move back to Jersey to live with friends. He’s now stuck back here where there are less jobs in even fewer industries, and if a job did come up in the UK he’d no longer have any savings to enable him to make the return move. He’s entirely stuck here for the foreseeable and still without a job (“overqualified” or “no experience in that area of work”). Like many other immigrants in Jersey my family are back home, if we were made redundant here we would still have back home as an option and the chance/hope that it might work out there if it hasn’t here. I don’t doubt that my friend’s situation is the more stressful one to be in (especially when the cost of living here is so much higher than anywhere that us immigrants have come from) so I can forgive any (erroneous) suggestions that I’m ‘taking a job from a local’. A bit of understanding on both sides probably wouldn’t go amiss.
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#49 Adrian, whether or not your question is indicative of Jersey at the moment what you ask only has one answer… civil unrest.
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“Civil war?”
BS and Adrian might like to think so, but minorities who hold extreme views often big themselves up.
Truth is, as Sanity expressed it so well the other day, the CoM are the best of an unimpressive bunch and the vast majority of Jersey’s electorate do not want the likes of Southern and Pitman to be in charge. You cannot argue with the Senatorial election results.
And in a democracy it is poor form to threaten violence just because you back losers.
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Adrian,
You make interesting points in your post 49.
You also often comment on the need to diversify the economy.
Can you answer one simple question: how do you diversify the economy if your labour force costs twice as much as that available elsewhere?
If an employer has to, as you say it should, employ locals at twice the rate of non-locals, what new businesses do you think will thrive in Jersey?
Tourism? Agriculture?
Go to any island around the world and see that the same problem arises everywhere. You either have a financial services industry and a divided society (the degree of division varies from Cayman at one extreme to Jersey at another) or you depend on tourism and have a very poor society with luxury accommodation for tourists and shanty towns for locals (St Lucia, Seychelles, Mauritius) or else you just have poverty, where the young have to leave (Anglesey, the Hebrides etc).
The costs of doing any economic activity in an island are always higher than the mainland. For locals, and this applies worldwide, there are five options:
1) get skills that are in demand;
2) be born to a land or business owner;
3) set up your own business;
4) leave
5) accept a low paid job.
But the idea that people anywhere, but especially on islands, can get a decent standard of living and accommodation for doing an unskilled job simply isn’t true.
A “reasonable wage” isn’t only the amount that a worker needs to pay rent and have a reasonable quality of life. A “reasonable wage” is also the amount an employer can afford to pay without going out of business.
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If somebody doesn’t have quallies, they shouldn’t be allowed to claim benefits.
If they can’t afford to get home, the States should identify where their home is and pay for their transport.
This would benefit everyone
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Heres a thing…the power brokers are bent on making this like Monaco…well here’s the deal boys…the locals don’t pay tax there as the casino pays for what would have been their contribution…so go a head trash the place so long as we don’t have to pay tax…
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mad foetus just look to history to see what happens when things go bad in any given place and you will learn a lot.
There is no such thing as a true democracy anywhere on this planet so maybe you live above and beyond?
A simple question for you, how can a democracy have nearly 10% of its parliament unelected to office? Even you have to admit this is not how so called democracies work.
As per the Senatorial elections I presume you back Senator Syvret then, since he has the biggest island mandate of all of them? Or are you too right wing for this?
donald the obvious question to ask is why are labour costs so high in Jersey?
I believe wages are high in Jersey because of
a)exorbitant travel costs to and from Jersey
b)exorbitant import/export costs
c)businesses charging almost what they want as they know they can get away with it though this is finally changing now we have the internet to shop online
d)property owners charging high rents for residential and commercial properties affecting rental bussiness prices etc
e)too many rich/well off people skewing property prices
The main ones to sort out first are a) and b) as if these were reduced significantly Jersey would become more competitive.
However as we have seen the JCRA are more worried about competition in the teleco markets, than these vital areas as I see them.
I ask the obvious question why?
A good comparision I would make is a paramedic attends a road crash and the crash victim has a scratch on the head and a cut artery.
Would the paramdic,
a) put a plaster on the scratch
b) sort out the cut artery?
As per wages every country I know uses migrant labour to fill its undesirable jobs, as they are the cheapest labour around. It isn’t right but this is what happens.
“A “reasonable wage” isn’t only the amount that a worker needs to pay rent and have a reasonable quality of life. A “reasonable wage” is also the amount an employer can afford to pay without going out of business.”
Quite right however when the balance falls more on one side than the other, imbalances occur. I believe the see-saw is too far towards the employers giving them too great an advantage.
If an employer could still make a reasonable profit and pay their workers more, would they? I think you know the answer to this don’t you?
Do you want to know what would sort out the high prices over here?
A bridge to France. However would those in charge want one? I would say they would not, as business profits would be hit by cheaper business’ in France.
If you want Jersey to be more competitive this would be one way to achieve it.
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it was a sad day when social security started to pay the rents of the unemployed ! you only have to be here five years be unemployed and yes you get your rent paid great. Get a job cash in hand and play the system!! and yes its as easy as that!!! its no wonder Jersey is going to pot and what incentive is there to find a job !!
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mad foetus 56
my comment was intended as “tongue in cheek” ??
Having said that, if the authorities continue to ignore and some may even say “oppress” the public then there may well be a backlash of sorts.
A lot of people I know, who would normally be fairly indifferent to politics, are now waking up and becoming more aware of local politics….and they are getting more and more annoyed by the poor leadership each day!
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57 donald pond
“Can you answer one simple question: how do you diversify the economy if your labour force costs twice as much as that available elsewhere?”
Can I ask you a question? Why do you think this is?
Perhaps because Jersey is twice (probably much more) as expensive as elsewhere?
“If an employer has to, as you say it should, employ locals at twice the rate of non-locals, what new businesses do you think will thrive in Jersey?”
It would seem a lot of businesses are thriving, particularly those in the catering industry. I mean, they must be, because how else can you get away with charging (at least) £1 for a cup of coffee, £3 for a cup of soup or sandwich and up to £10 for a full english breakfast!
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61 la la
Social Security don’t pay their rents…..WE do!!
…and you’re absolutely right, there is no incentive for these people to earn a living. I mean why would you if you can get your sky, hd tv’s, games consoles all paid for by the state and spend your time doing what you want when you want….whilst the rest of us mugs work hard, can’t afford the same luxuries and yet pay for theirs!
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Beaumont comment 58 “If somebody doesn’t have quallies, they shouldn’t be allowed to claim benefits.
If they can’t afford to get home, the States should identify where their home is and pay for their transport.
This would benefit everyone”
I’ll refer you to my earlier post when commenting on a previous racist comment.
21 – I would hope that Jersey is paying beneift to anyone who has contributed to the social security system no matter their nationality. Or would you have the state accept tax and social security payments from non indiginous individuals with no thought in mind to renumeration when appropriate?
If so then lets rename tax and social with a more appropriate name, how about theft?
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“A simple question for you, how can a democracy have nearly 10% of its parliament unelected to office?”
Err, they don’t vote Adrian. So they can’t affect anything. Even the Bailiff, who has a casting vote, has to use it to say no.
The AG is there to provide legal advice when he is asked to do so.
By your logic one could say that because there are cameras in the House of Commons it proves we are now governed by machines.
PS What’s with the bonkers analogies. WMD? Poachers? Now car accidents. Let’s keep it real, as Dave says.
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@ mad foetus #66
“…Err, they don’t vote Adrian. So they can’t affect anything. Even the Bailiff, who has a casting vote, has to use it to say no…”
The Bailiff no longer has a casting vote.
However the presence of anybody who speaks in the States does have an effect on the debate, so Adrian is absolutely right in wanting non-elected members removed, there are times when an expert in a technical field might be needed to speak, but only on his area of expertise; The Dean is a perfect example of somebody who should not have anymore right to speak in the States than you or I (assuming you’re not an elected member of course!)
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I came to Jersey ten years ago from New Zealand after meeting many Jersey people in New Zealand working hard there – immigrants to New Zealand are not treated with the same xenophobia as the Jersey people left here. I was told then as an acocuntant I woudl make good money in Jersey and lead a good life, because the only people left in JErsey as locals were one’s who thought they were owed a living, and were lazy. Well, these responses confirm it. If you want a job, don’t complain about foreigners, get off your lazy backside and get a job, and stop thinking you are owed something just because of where you are born!
The Kiwi
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My question – how can a local firm be advertising for a plumber/heating engineer this week who does NOT need to have lived in the Island for 5 years? They cannot possibly be saying that no local tradesmen would want this job at the moment. Something wrong here, very wrong.
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#58 Utter nonsense! If someone has paid into the system then they are entitled.
In saying that, if someone is here on their own (no family etc) then chances are they would head home, but if someone has moved here with their entire family then they will be inclined to stay and collect benefits.
You need to remember that if someone has been here for years, loses their job, can’t find another and so heads back home they won’t be entitled to any benefits back home… yet they may have paid into a system (either here or at home) all their life. Hardly fair.
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#63 I’m surprised you think the catering industry is thriving. The cafe and restaurant owners I speak to are all going through an extremely tough time. It will be made worse when the minimum wage goes up again. And in some places rents have almost doubled in the last year for no reason other than property owners think rent payers are a captive market.
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I would just like to mention something a friend said when I visited him recently abroad where he owns a business that does not do so great but simply tides him over.
Just as background he had a fairly decent job here previously but could only afford a rubbish little bedsit and had no hope of ever buying because the wages were well below average, and not enough to get a mortgage, he is a local. He took the plunge and moved hoping for better opportunities.
I asked him if business is not so good then why not consider moving back to Jersey. His response was that he would rather be skint living hand to mouth where he is than being skint in Jersey because earning a mediocre local wage there at least afforded him the chance to rent a decent home.
There is no unemployment benefit and no social security, national health etc etc.
So, he is a local, has worked abroad and yet still works his backside off for a meagre wage. So the old adage that loacals are lazy is annoying in the extreme.
I myself worked in Australia, and the amount of times I would get a job and the people in my hostel would say, its easy because the locals are so lazy really used to get my goat. If you are lazy then you are lazy, being local makes no difference. If you want to work, even just to get by as my mate does then you will do this regardless of where you are born. The only point I will make on the above is that my mate does not have the luxury where he is of being able to live off the state, perhaps that is where the problem lies over here.
If you allow people to get freebies then some of them will simply take advantage of the situation. Those are the lazy people, be they local or foreign they simply cannot e bothered to do a days work because life is made too easy for them when they dont.
I heard a great story recently about someone kicking up a fuss at social because the £250 a week they were getting not being enough and they wanted more. Said person is an alcoholic spending there time park benching but with a nice roof over their head in the evening. Is it no wonder people become lazy when they receive such gracious hand outs!
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So, he is a local, has worked abroad and yet still works his backside off for a meagre wage.
just incase anyone missunderstands the sentance above I mean our locals.
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Leah 71
I only say that because how else can you justify those prices. If the business/industry was struggling I’d expect they’d lower prices to attract more custom…..or fold, but there are more and more coffee, sandwich and take-away shops opening all the time.
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J Lamborrari thanks for that. It is nice to see that others can see this issue as needing addressing.
BSD this was the point I was alluding to. To me if you pay half the wages that you could afford to, then your profits will be more than likely nearer double what they would have been. This is basic maths and economics to me. Mind you I don’t work in finance do I? Maybe things work differently there?
mad foetus unelected members can influence people in the way that they vote because they can make speeches in the house.
As per the Bailiff he has to vote for the status quo i.e. establishment view point. Not that I personally would expect him to vote contrary, even if he could.
You idea of democracy means you are happy to have unelected members in a parliament. This is undemocratic. I suggest you look the word up in the Oxford Dictionary for clarification, if you don’t believe me.
If the “cameras” to use your logic made speeches and could influence the House of Commons then yes we would be influenced by machines wouldn’t we? You are using very odd (bonkers) analogies to argue your point I must say..
W.M.D. The British government convinced the Houses of Parliament that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It appears donald tends to believe the government and thinks what they say is good enough for him and he believes what they say. I on the other hand don’t just believe people because they are in the government.
My poacher reference was valid as it underlines the point that just because there is no evidence doesn’t mean a crime has not been committed. This is making a valid point to all those that slag off certain blogs.
As per the accident you attend the most seriously injured first. Anyone with basic First Aid knows this. This was with reference to the economy. I believe the government are just putting a plaster on things whereas the issues are much more serious than that IMHO.
Maybe these things are bonkers to you and others, but to me they make perfect sense and are very logical. It appears your reality is miles from mine.
I also see no answer from you as per the most voted for Senator. I am surprised since you attach so much weight to the rank of Senator and the largeness of mandate. No disrespect but it looks like it has blown a hole in your argument to me.
jj a very good point well put. There are good and bad in both local and non-local, regardless of what some on here would have you believe.
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75 Adrian
Is there any reason why you have directed your comment at me in particular?
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Will all the Jersey immigrants in London stop taking our jobs! I can’t get a job because of you… blah blah blah.
How does it feel to be blamed by someone else as a scapegoat you channel island moaners. EH? Take a good hard look at yourselves, we are just all trying to cope with a bad recession, its as bad here as it is with you.
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Adrian,
For the avoidance of doubt, I don’t really care about the unelcted members in the States. I don’t think it is hugely important. The dean clearly has no role to play. Whether the AG is there or not is a moot point – they do need legal advice quite often. Who else is there?
The role of the Bailiff is trickier. You need a speaker who is supposed to be impartial and non-voting. So it’s either someone unelected or an elected person who gives up the right to vote – your call.
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#74 I find it weird too. Places that open are just taking business away from other places (not because they’re better, usually just by location). So many places I pass are just empty. I know one person who opened a small cafe fairly recently and now they’re wondering what on earth they were thinking. I guess some people expect it’s an easier thing to do than it actually is.
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#72 Well said.
Some people are under the odd impression that only British people are xenophobic and only white people are racist… couldn’t be further from the truth (as shown on here regularly).
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@ Adrian #75
“…To me if you pay half the wages that you could afford to, then your profits will be more than likely nearer double what they would have been. This is basic maths and economics to me. Mind you I don’t work in finance do I? Maybe things work differently there?…”
Quite how you can come to such a figure with basic math I don’t know;
If I have one member of staff and pay them £30kpa and my company makes a profit of £1Mpa then halving their wage will only increase my profit by 1.5%; nowhere near 100% even in basic math.
Unless you’re saying you literally mean ‘nearer double’, but then why not make even more of a point and say ‘nearer a billion times!!’
“…As per the Bailiff he has to vote for the status quo i.e. establishment view point…”
This is no longer true since 2005 in my understanding, can anybody clarify?
“…I believe the government are just putting a plaster on things whereas the issues are much more serious than that IMHO…”
To continue along your analogy: What if the Doctor is aware that a person is suffering, but does not know the cure(perhaps it’s a certain medication that once at the hospital test will show to be needed); should he not fix the bleeding limb in the ambulance to keep the patient alive in the meantime?
Not for the first time you’re saying that the economy is in serious mire, but you don’t offer any real solution or idea yourself… well other than we should diversify(you won’t say into what), or just live a utopian ideal (you won’t say how you think this is achievable), or the latest great idea, a bridge to France (although I really don’t think that would achieve what you think it would)
“…I also see no answer from you… …No disrespect but it looks like it has blown a hole in your argument to me…”
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“I also see no answer from you as per the most voted for Senator. I am surprised since you attach so much weight to the rank of Senator and the largeness of mandate. No disrespect but it looks like it has blown a hole in your argument to me.”
Adrian,
As others have pointed out, the person who heads a government is not the one who has the most votes from he public but the one who can command the support of the legislative body. If SS was chief minister I doubt he would be able to even appoint ministers and I am certain he would not be able to pass legislation, so what would happen then?
I believe Senators have an island mandate and find it offensive and undemocratic that the likes of Southern, Pitman, Higgins and Macon have the same voting rights as Senators. To me, it is absurd that someone who lost in the Senators election in 2008 should have the same voting rights as somebody who won. But then, my personal view is that as soon as someone claims to represent “the ordinary Jerseyman” what they actually mean is “I’m in it for the money”.
I have no objection to us having an election for a form of “Head of State”, if that is the conclusion that you are inelegantly stumbling towards.
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The so called £44 million to stimulate the Market is not filtering down to the Small business that employers a small amount of staff most of the allocated money will go to our own States projects to improve roads etc
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BSD I was only refering to you as in the last paragraph of no.63. That was the point I was agreeing with. The rest wasn’t aimed at you.
J Lamborrari as you say it depends on the wage/costs ratio of any given firm. Let me just say by paying half out in wages you are saving 50% of your wage bill. Maybe you would agree that this is so? Sorry for not making it clear enough the first time around.
As you well know a severed artery will kill you pretty damn quick, so in my opinion it is pointless in worrying about a scratch. You on the other hand believe in faffing around with things that have little or no bearing on the final outcome of things. Sorry to say but this is just typical of the CoM IMHO.
I think I am also correct as per the Bailiff and his voting in the case of a tied vote.
As anyone knows to be dependent on one industry is not good, as you are open to major problems should this take a big hit.
As per the bridge idea this is a method to get rid of expensive import/export and travel costs. It is also a method to generate alternative energy. It is an alternative but may not be to your liking. However it might be to others, I just don’t know. You can rubbish it as much as you like but it would have the desired affect as per making Jersey more cost effective than it is at present. Most agree that everything is too expensive here well here is a way to alter this. As I have mentioned diversification is now more imperative than ever before. You can obviously disagree if you so wish that is your choice.
Maybe you could suggest some ways to make Jersey better and more cost affective at the same time? Maybe you can’t?
It isn’t about living in utopia though why shouldn’t people aim for this as it surely would be far better than what we have at present? I have just analysed things and realising where the problems are and was just trying to get others to at least think about these issues. Most appear to be living in splendid isolation and hoping for the best from what I can see.
mad foetus doesn’t really care about whether there are unelected members in a government. Yet he appears to believe in democracy. The two don’t go together as far as I am concerned.
So mad foetus you don’t like deputies because you feel an island wide mandate is better as they get more votes etc. No problem with that but you then go on to imply it doesn’t matter whether the person in charge has the least votes! Where is the logic in this when you have already implied votes count?
To use this logic in the UK we would have a “nice” person who gets on with all the House Of Commons given the job of P.M. after the elections. He might well have least votes of all but hey ho don’t worry because we can’t have an awkward P.M. can we? How Maggie would have faired in the system you agree with is open to debate.
“But then, my personal view is that as soon as someone claims to represent “the ordinary Jerseyman” what they actually mean is “I’m in it for the money”.
So you believe someone who cares about Joe Public is in it for the money. Is this really why you don’t like the deputies? Are you saying all the CoM represent Joe Public before business and finance?
As per the Head of State being elected to office, any so called democracy would have this wouldn’t they? If you haven’t realised this till now you aren’t very politically astute are you? Mind you it is good to see you agree and have grasped the point at last.
I find it offensive that I have no say in who runs Jersey even though I bother to vote. I also believe if you want to be more democratic the one with the most votes would get the top job! Pretty logical in my book. It isn’t up to a small group of 30 people or so to decide for us. This is undemocratic as far as I am concerned. You may think it is democratic but I think the Oxford English dictionary would also disagree with you on this.
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C’mon lands don’t be xenophobic!! I work for 600 pounds a mounth as a cook. Tell me one guy from Jersey who will do that for 600 pounds. I came here to support my entire family, i am a good Christian, i had never done something bad against Jersey, i respect your country, i pay taxes (not like a citizen ofcourse). Tell me where i am wrong?!?!
In one year i will go home forever after i finnish my house. So why you guys hate me?
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Bogdan 85.
No-one hates you Bogdan, but I am not so keen on your ‘not-so-Christian’ boss…£600 per month…scandalous!
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@ Adrian #84
“…You on the other hand believe in faffing around with things that have little or no bearing on the final outcome of things…”
Not only is what you say not true, it doesn’t even answer my question: I know you avoid answering questions as the answers often weaken you arguments, but if you can’t even answer my questions when you make stuff up you must admit that you’re reasoning is questionable?
“…I think I am also correct as per the Bailiff and his voting in the case of a tied vote…”
‘States of Jersey Law 2005 – Part2: – 2.Constitution of the States – (3) Only elected members shall have the right to vote in the Assembly’
What you think, is often not correct Adrian.
“…It isn’t about living in utopia though why shouldn’t people aim for this as it surely would be far better than what we have at present?…”
If an eye surgeon told you that the chance of success of an operation to cure your mild long sightedness was almost certainly nil, and that attempting to aim for this practically impossible goal would likely ’cause you to lose you sight would you use the same argument?
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J.Lamborrari have only just checked up on this yes indeed it was altered just over four years ago. I must try and keep more up to date then. Still it was into the 21st century before Jersey stopped unelected officials from voting, not bad for a democracy eh?
However I believe it still makes no difference as in the case of a tied vote the establishment still wins by default.
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