Why is beer so much cheaper in Cape Town?
Wednesday 3rd March 2010, 3:00PM GMT.
From Allen Simms.
I READ with interest the reply by David Le Quesne to an article by Christine Herbert. Unfortunately, I did not read the original article but would like to make the following comments.
When the debate took place about the proposed increase in duty, the minister stated that duty levels were below those of other countries and that an investigation should be made into local prices.
I know that premium beers are cheaper on islands in the Indian Ocean and have just returned from Cape Town, where the inflated World Cup price on the waterfront for a pint of Guinness was ZAR25. At today’s rate of exchange of about 11, it makes it about a pound a pint cheaper than in Jersey.
I cannot imagine that transport and associated costs to Cape Town are less than those to Jersey, so how can this discrepancy be explained?
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Beer is cheaper in Cape Town because the cost of living (and the standard of life) is far cheaper than in Jersey.
May I commend Wikipedia (other on-line encyclopaedias are also available) to Mr Allen Simms? It is a veritable gold mine of basic economic information.
Mr Simms will then be able to compare the gross salaries of bank clerks in St Helier with their South African colleagues.
He may even learn that many Capetonian black people, 20 years after the ANC came to power in that country, still live in the shacks and hovels that they occupied during the ‘apartheid’ era.
To balance that, however, the standards of living of a large number of white South Africans has deteriorated to the extent that they can no longer afford more than two black servants and that they no longer live in sprawling houses with swimming pools in the back yard.
Once Mr Simms understands that he may understand the disparity in the prices of a bottle of beer. He might even see that there is no necessity for him to swill beer brewed thousands of miles away from St Helier.
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Why don’t you move to SA.I lived there for many yrs,and loved it,The problem being,was that my wife never knew if she would ever see me again every time that i left the house.Do you know that the first bill that you pay at the end of the month,Is your 24/7 security fast response team unit.What a great place to live.
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When the football world cup arrives soon in South Africa, you can watch the price of beer rise.
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Some people really don’t think before they put pen to paper.
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“…I cannot imagine that transport and associated costs to Cape Town are less than those to Jersey…”
Why not? Can you not imagine that there are very real costs involved in the shipping by road, then swapping to boat and back and dealing with customs etc. etc.??
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“Why don’t you move to SA?”, asks C Rhodes (oh, what a clever nom de plume THAT was).
No need, thank you “Cecil”.
I was born there, bred in District Six in Cape Town, arrested by the South African Police, interrogated by BOSS, brought to trial in the Rivonia trials and acquitted, and then expelled from South Africa – my homeland – because my dissident views did not suit the white majority government.
So I know all too well of what I speak, “Cecil”.
While you “loved” your time in South Africa it was no doubt on the backs of the black natives of that country who worked for a pittance for you and lived in ramshackle tin and tar paper shacks in segregated townships. Was your neighbourhood “white by night”, likie so many others?
If you “loved it” so much in South Africa why didn’t you stick it out and stay there? What are you doing here in effete and comfortable Jersey? Or did the deterioration of law and order make you scuttle away from SA, like a trapped rat?
Think on “Cecil” Rhodes; engage your brain before putting fingers to keyboard so rashly next time.
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@ Albert Salmon #6
“…So I know all too well of what I speak, “Cecil”…”
I don’t know why you feel the need to be quite so attacking with your attitude and name calling.
“…it was no doubt on the backs of the black natives…”
No doubt? From the information given I see no reason to jump to such a conclusion; you seem to be very prejudicial.
“…If you “loved it” so much in South Africa why didn’t you stick it out and stay there?…”
The threat of death seems to have been a motive, which I think is a fair enough reason. Why didn’t you stay and ‘stick it out’?
“…What are you doing here in effete and comfortable Jersey?…”
Perhaps this is his homeland, as you’ve already said it is not your homeland the same question could be asked of you. I’m sure your homeland would welcome you back since the changes to Government that seem to have been the reasons you left; why do you choose to stay in Jersey?
“…Think on “Cecil” Rhodes; engage your brain before putting fingers to keyboard so rashly next time…”
You hypocrite.
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Mr Salmon, please take a moment to note the irony in Mr Rhodes comment before releasing a torrent of abuse. I think you may find he is agreeing exactly with what you say!
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Because despite leaving Apartheid behind nearly 20 years ago, most black Africans who do the menial work, live in abject poverty. A UN statistic said recently that 30% of the population live on less than a $1 a day. Something to think about when necking that cheap beer I guess.
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J lamborrari “Why not? Can you not imagine that there are very real costs involved in the shipping by road, then swapping to boat and back and dealing with customs etc. etc.??”
You mean just like getting things to the Shetlands? Funny how the prices there aren’t the same then, isn’t it?
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@ Adrian #10
“…Funny how the prices there aren’t the same then, isn’t it?…”
Do you mean the prices between Jersey and Shetland?
The cost of shipping between the mainland and Shetland is lower than internationally for the reason I’ve already in part given, however, I’m afraid I don’t know the price of a pint in Shetland, as you obviously do please advise what it is; then I’ll answer your question in full.
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I’ll try and phone someone up in the Shetlands and let you know if I get an answer.
Till then I believe prices in the Sheltands are 5% more than the mainland. In Jersey it is at least 17.5% isn’t it?
I’m sure you are more than capable of coming up with some excuses as to why this is so. On second thoughts don’t bother…..
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Despite popular belief all Guinness is not brewed in Ireland. It will be brewed somewhere in the African continent (possibly SA) and a form of concentrate is added to help authenticate the Irish brew.eg below from wikipedia (several others)
Guinness Foreign Extra Stout: 7.5% abv version sold in Europe, Africa, the Caribbean and Asia. The basis is an unfermented but hopped Guinness wort extract shipped from Dublin, which is added to local ingredients and brewed locally.
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I think the closest Guinness Brewery to Cape Town is in Nigeria although there might be one closer; apparently this Nigerian Guinness is the best in the world (probably). And incidentally San Miguel is actually a Filipino and not a Spanish beer
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@ Adrian #12
You’re talking about a price differential of about 12.5%, that’s quite a small price differential when you consider the economies of scale between a products largest market globally (UK) and Jersey.
Take a look at just about any other product and you can often find larger price differentials between two shops in the same town.
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@ Boris #14
Diageo (who own Guinness) currently import it, overland, from their brewery in Namibia. However they are investing in a new brewery for Guinness, and other brands, in Jo’burg.
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Tom Jones, the tide is meant to be turning. There has been an increasing number of white South Africans emigrating to the UK and Jersey. I’ve met 8 in the last year (3 in Jersey), all professionals aged 25-45, all lost their jobs and struggled to get another as blacks were given priority. They are essentially economic migrants but seem to be accepted more than other economic migrants.
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J.Lamoborrari “You’re talking about a price differential of about 12.5%, that’s quite a small price differential when you consider the economies of scale between a products largest market globally (UK) and Jersey.”
It might be small to you if you work in finance but to many this is an unacceptably large differential.
What about the Shetlands are they paying this sort of mark up for things?
I myself think it is daft to be bringing things in from the UK which is at least 4 times further distant than France. I think it would be much better to get things from France where possible, especially food, which I find to be of a much superior quality to that which comes from the mainland.
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17 Leah
This is so true.
My fiancee is South African and of course I know her family and friends in Jo’burg very well.
They have told me that it is getting much harder for the white SA to get jobs as the internal policy seems to be to employ 90% black SA (regardless of suitability and qualification).
Albert Salmon
You may know what 1960′s SA was like, but since you’ve been expelled the country has changed a lot. I do not profess to be an expert, but I do know close friends and family living in SA today and they paint a very different picture where it is now the white person being vilified.
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Going back to the cost of beer…..
In Spain you can still get draught (english) lager for EUR 1 during “happy hour” (yes they still have it) plus you can buy crates of beer in the supermarket for as little as 8 cents per can (although clearly they are not as much quality as the branded versions).
Jersey Brewery produces Mary Ann, which last time I supped a pint, was about the same price as imported big name brands….why is this when there are no real shipping or freight costs required for the local brew? Yes, there are ingredients which need to be brought over but a) why can’t they be grown here and b) if not, why can’t the brewery shop around for cheaper ingredients on the continent.
Personally, I believe the high prices of alcohol in Jersey are down to pure and simple greed (as with everything else)!
This will eventually contribute to the demise of the local pub as more and more people opt to drink at home before going out….
PS…I’ll let you know how much a pint is in SA when I return from the World Cup
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I note that David Le Quesne has been quick to defend prices rises in Randall’s pubs. Can he explain how a pint of lager shandy which consists of a large amount of cheap lemonade and a splash of lager costs exactly the same amount as a full pint of lager. Surely this is a pure and simple rip off of the customer. I look forward to his defence of this practise.
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@ Adrian #18
“…It might be small to you if you work in finance…”
Why on earth would what I, or anybody, does for a living make any difference recognizing the that there is likely to be saving to be made when purchasing for a market of ~60,000,000 people over a market of 100,000 people? Are you implying that those people who don’t work in finance are too stupid to understand basic economics? What about those that work in retail(or it supply chain)? Don’t you think they might understand it?
“…but to many this is an unacceptably large differential…”
Then they have a right not to accept it, Guinness is not a necessity; I cope just fine without drinking the stuff, yet I can still accept that the price charge will differ around the globe for a whole host of perfectly reasonable reasons.
“…What about the Shetlands are they paying this sort of mark up for things?…”
Still waiting for you to let me know; earlier(10) you seemed to be claiming some knowledge, then you back-tracked. I don’t have a great knowledge of the Shetland, but I do know that they would not experience the same costs of shipping between the mainland and the Shetland Islands as you do between the UK and Jersey.
“…I myself think it is daft to be bringing things in from the UK which is at least 4 times further distant than France…”
There is some logic (!) in this, but you have to consider that transport costs are not just charged per mile, importing across borders is expensive, which is why there is added costs importing into Jersey. It’s the same reason that Guinness closed their London brewery, with the rise of the EU it became less complicated and expensive to import Guinness from Ireland to the UK.
You may think it better to import from France, but this would mean new infrastructure being put in place, and as you know, these will cost, and those costs will be bourne by the consumer. Of course there have been times when cheaper products have been purchased from mainland Europe and entered the retail market in Jersey. One product that springs to mind was Coca-Cola; unfortunately this came from a plant in Belgium that had an issue with it’s production run that contaminated it’s products with, I think, benzene; while the official supply chain was advised and product re-called the product imported from Jersey wasn’t, because it was within the same infrastructure. You’ll also see South African and Morrocan Coke on the shelves in Jersey from time to time; I don’t imagine that we would be advised if the Morrocans found any production problems either.
And I disagree about quality, I’ve not found French produce in general of any better quality, however I prefer UK sourced Coke to Belgian (but tastes differ, so that’s a personal thing)
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I thought the prices were going up to discourage kids from drinking, Also why is it whenever i go away do people still say, “your from Jersey isn’t that 90.000 alcoholics clinging to a rock and full of tax evaiders! I was in America at the time! I was so embarrased. I love Jersey but i dont like the reputation we have for being alcholics.
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@ Helen Back #23
“…why is it whenever i go away do people still say…”
Very few people even know of Jersey when I travel further than the UK.
“…I was so embarrased…”
Why? it’s not true, so just put them right; would you be embarrased if they said ‘isn’t that where they all carry guns, eat burgers and where cowboy hats even when using the drive through wedding chapel?’?
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Helen Back
I find your comment hard to believe….in USA if you mention you are from Jersey they automatically think “New Jersey”. Most americans don’t even know where UK is let alone tiny “old” Jersey.
Back to the booze issue …. the prices are not increased just to discourage kids from drinking booze…..the law is there to do that! The prices are increased simply to generate profits.
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Oh I don’t know 24, our Chief Health Officer said we had a much greater percentage of problem drinkers than the UK as a whole.
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19, sounds like Karma to me after years of the whites living that nice colonial experience with the help of what was in reality slave labour. It was amazing how many white south african professionals flew the coop post 2003 when they could have played their part in helping the rainbow nation progress and they could have made amends for the exploitation. I always felt that Jersey with its reactionary social attitudes was why a lot of them felt so at home here.
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Sorry I meant post 1993.
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fair comment Bean Biko, but surely replacing one form of apartheid with another form is not the solution.
There shouldn’t be any discrimination whatsoever in the “new” regime, but sadly (rightly or wrongly) it is still showing it’s ugly head.
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@ BS Deluxe #15
“…There shouldn’t be any discrimination whatsoever in the “new” regime, but sadly (rightly or wrongly) it is still showing it’s ugly head…”
If this is the situation, and I’ve no reason to doubt that it is, I can’t just shrug it off as ‘karma’, it’s as wrong, if not moreso than the apartheid of 20years ago.
It reminds me of a quote:
“…I have more respect for a man who lets me know where he stands, even if he’s wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil…”
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#29 & 30 Totally agree. I’m against discrimination full stop, positive and negative, discrimination is just that, no matter how it is dressed up.
The problem with the karma suggestion is that current generations (people who were born there) are paying for the mistakes of generations before them. I don’t believe in the “sins of the father” and all that.
There’s also an assumption that all staff were slaves. My friend’s family had a maid and she (and her kids) were part of the family. She had good pay, good hours and even now the family have moved to Glasgow she is still family.
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Helen I have had similar comments myself when I have been away. Tax haven is often one of the first words spoken when I happen to mention where I come from…
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