UK prisoners may be sent home
Monday 8th March 2010, 2:59PM GMT.
Home Affairs Minister Ian Le Marquand.
A DEAL to send foreign prisoners back to their home countries will be discussed with UK officials this week.
Home Affairs Minister Ian Le Marquand says that he is committed to a prisoner repatriation deal and has been working on it for the last 12 months.
And he revealed that Home Affairs chief officer Steven Austin-Vautier will go to the UK this week to discuss a deal that could see non-Jersey prisoners transferred from La Moye to prisons in their countries of origin.
‘We are most definitely pursuing this as a matter of high priority,’ said Senator Le Marquand. ‘But it is the mechanism that is causing the problem. We need to find out whether we need to amend own law or whether we can just enter into a treaty.’
See Monday’s JEP for full story.
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Sounds good to me. That should get rid of the majority of criminals then, can we also ban them from entering the island again after getting out of prison.
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Great idea…go for it……….
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Sounds a sensible idea to me. Saves the Island money.
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Will this mean that Jersey born prisoners serving sentences in the U.K. and elsewhere would return to the Island?
The problem I have with this idea, is that in the U.K. prisoners often only serve a proportion of their sentence to free up space in prisons. If this scheme is agreed, then prisoners returned to U.K. prisons shouldn’t be allowed back in the island until the time they would have sereved at H.M.P. La Moye, has expired.
Another query I have, is this a welfare situation, or a money saving exercise?
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[1]
If you transfer a uk prisoner from jersey to the uk it wil cost the states of jersey more money to keep that inmate in an uk jail,than it
would cost to keep them in LA Moye.
[2]
inmates Transferred into the UK from jersey system have to serve 2/3rds,under the present
system.
[3]
inmates cannot benefit from a transfer from one system to another.
[4]
JERSEY ALREADY HAS AN AGREEMENT WITH THE UK TO TRANSFER INMATES BACK TO THE UK,
[5]
as an non parole inmate in the UK system,they are very Disadvantaged against,as opposed to
the UK inmate who will qualify for parole at the 1/2 way tariff.
[6]
NOT THAT THIS WILL CONCERN ANYONE LIVING ON THE ROCK.
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Will it save the Island money? How much will each country charge us to house these prisoners? I really believe that we should do a decent deal with a poor country like Somalia, say something like £5,000 a prisoner a year. Even though they would be unlikely to offend again they would never be allowed to return to these shores.
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They should of started doing this years ago. People who come here to work and then cannot behave and end up in the courts should be sent back home even if it means them doing time in their country of origin.
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Ex – P.O. # 5. If what you are saying is correct(I have no reason to believe otherwise), why is Ian Le Marquand taking this stance?
Sending his very able Chief Officer, Steven Austin-Vautier to the U.K., on a pointless exercise, is surely going to cost the island money it can not afford.
Senator Le Marquand says he is committed to prisoner repatriation, yet if there is already an agreement to do this – as outlined above – it might be indicative how inept he is in the role of Home Affairs Minister. He should be more committed to creating more effective policing on the Island’s streets and having more cops available to answer calls from the public.
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5
This article is talking about foreign prisoners being sent back to their country of origin……not just UK (although I wouldn’t class British people as “foreign” to Jersey).
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Based on recent events and details,I’m sure we could do a deal with Thailand…say Tenner a week each….keep ‘em long as you want.
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[8]BLUE KNIGHT
Yes,it is a pointless exercise.
All UK inmates,can apply to return to the UK, And in most cases select the prison that they wish to transfer to.most cases close to home,so as to make visits easier.They mainly go to Winchester first,then onto whichever prison that they have applied for,and Of course been accepted by that prison,Most Inmates serving over 4yrs are treated as long term inmates,and transfer out as an B Catt,then they can progress to D Catt and open prison.Or for other reasons the prison can ghost/transfer inmates out at anytime the governor decides.but YES JERSEY DOES HAVE A SYSTEM IN PLACE AT PRESENT TO SHIP OUT INMATES.
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Why would we have to pay for the foreign criminal to be imprisoned in their own home country.
Surely once back in their native land then they are that governments responsibility?
We should simply deport the criminals and ensure they do not return unless proven to be an asset to society. If the government of the criminals home country do not wish to lock them up then that is their problem and their own society will suffer as a consequence.
We have paid enough through police time and conviction in the courts to deal with the perpetrators…..why should we continue to pay once they’re out of our hands?
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…..11 continued
perhaps some statistics could be kept on the different nationals with high crime rates and use this to help with any future immigration policies…..if a person comes from a high risk country then the criteria to enter should be much tougher!
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Jersey residents have very few free facilities available to them in the UK so it stands to reason that prisioners belonging to the UK should not be given free facilities whilst in Jersey.
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[12] BS DELUXE
I agree with all of your comments,
Ask your local states member.
When MR Keith Wheeler was the governor at LA Moye,the transfer policy was changed in relation to transfers from jersey to the UK.[about 1996]if an inmate was transferred from jersey,then they would be eligible for parole at the 1/2 way mark.even though jersey did not have a 1/2 way parole mark.the British Government,[not MR wheeler] changed this over night.IE an inmate cannot Benefit from a transfer,and all transfers from jersey to the UK/Portugal,etc.will be paid for by the states of jersey CI.for the duration of that inmate time in custody.time served.
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If like Guernsey we had in place a system to prevent people with a criminal record entering the island in the first place surely this would be much less of an issue.
I worked in Alderney over 20 years ago and as Alderney is covered by Guersey laws one of our number had a record for fighting when drunk, he wasn’t allowed in full stop. This struck me as common sense and a basic requirement to keep out the scum so why over 20 years later have we not adopted it?
What about locally qualified UK born residents, would they be sent home too?.
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Great idea it costs about £100 a day to keep prisoners.
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Ex-Prison Officer # 11. If it is a pointless exercise, then Senator Ian Le Marquand needs to expalin why on earth he is doing this. He appears to be wasting time and money, whereas he and his staff should be putting more effort into improving the criminal justice system in the Island. Perhaps Terry Le Sueur would like to have a word in his shell like ear…..get a grip Ian.
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Blue Knight, EX PRISON OFFICER.
I may be wrong here but the way I read it, at the moment a foreign prisoner may apply for transfer.
What is being proposed is the prisoner has no say in the matter.
Sounds good to me.
Surely with the economies of scale it will be cheaper to keep them in large UK prisons especially if they are let out half way through their sentence.
Then so long as they are refused entry to Jersey up to the full time release date it gives these convicted criminals time to resettle in their own communities, hopefully never to darken our doorsteps again.
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Piston Broke hits the nail on the head.
Let’s set up arrangements with a few other countries for them to take our prisoners. We could have a deal with say morocco, who would take prisoners for not much. If prisoners wanted to stay somewhere nicer – say greece, which needs money – they can pay a supplement. And if they want to pay the full costs of keeping them, they could stay at La Moye.
Let’s apply the user pays principal to criminals. And I bet people would be slower to commit crime if they knew they would serve the time in a foreign hell hole.
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Best bit of news ive heard in ages. This should have been happening years ago! People are saying its about cost, well cost is nothing if someone is a repeat offender, a rapist, murderer, even a petty criminal. To return the offender back to there home country is no way near the cost of a year in prison at the tax payers expence, then for them to be released with no job, a criminal record and then on to the States Benifit system becuse no one will employ them. Its all to do with fairness to the general public!
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If they want to save money why don’t they take drug importers, who have travelled from, say, Weymouth port, back to Weymouth in handcuffs where they can be prosecuted under existing UK Laws for drug ‘exportation’.
The exportation occurred before the importation to Jersey so should be dealt with first there.
They can spend their sentence in a UK jail.
As an added bonus, the prisoner can be warned that should he/she set foot on this rock again they will be prosecuted for the importation.
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#9 BS that confused me too. The headline doesn’t match the article, one suggests that UK prisoners in Jersey get sent home, the other clearly states that Home Affairs chief officer will go to the UK to discuss a deal that will allow Jersey to send foreign prisoners (of any nationality) home. Doesn’t this mean that Jersey is currently prevented, by its dependency on the UK, from sending foreign prisoners home and needs the UK’s agreement for this to change?
As for your comment #13, this is already done for terrorism, and I can understand why, but crime blights all of society on a daily basis so should be taken more seriously.
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One of the first things Le Marquand did when he became Home Affairs boss was to immediatley stop “foreign”inmates(ie non British) who were coming towards the end of their sentance to work outside La Moye during daylight hours. I employed 2 such prisoners & the wage they earned went towards the cost of their “rent” ie La Moye B & B !! Thus cutting the cost of their stay!! He deceided that it was better they spent 24 hours in La Moye thus increasing the cost & time of the Prison staff who work endlessly despite lack of numbers & assistance from the States.
Incidentally , he didn’t even have the courtesy to write to all the businesses who were willing to employ these people – all we received was a phone call to say “such and such” won’t be in today or anyday from now on….talk about bad PR !!
Despite these 2 inmates (both female i may add) being hard working & courteous I agree they should be sent back to their country of origin when sentanced – as should any Jersey prisoner be sent here – its the families of these people you have to feel sorry for , paying ££’s to drive,fly,sail to see their loved ones – even though they’ve been naughty!!
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Throughly sensible idea. But we must ask ourselves a question, why are so many people in jail today? Simple really, is is not ? Drugs and the related crime, prior to 1990 the jail sat virtually empty, a couple of dozen prehaps, the explosion of inmates is because 90 % of ‘criminals’ ( drug users ) should not be there. Sure you can disagree, but a £52 K a pop, do you really want to built another prison every 10 years. This is what will happen. Please read Transform Drug Policy. I have cut and pasted thier mission statement which increasingly politicians from all parties from all over the world are signing up too, you may not like it, but are you prepared to pay for the alternative.
Our Mission:
Transform Drug Policy Foundation exists to promote sustainable health and wellbeing by bringing about a just, effective and humane system to regulate and control drugs at local, national and international levels.
Our Activities:
Carry out research, policy analysis and innovative policy development
Challenge government to demonstrate rational, fact-based evidence to support its policies and expenditure
Promote alternative, evidence-based policies to parliamentarians, government and government agencies
Advise non-governmental organisations whose work is affected by drugs in developing drug policies appropriate to their own mission and objectives
Provide an informed, rational and clear voice in the public and media debate on UK and international drug policy
Our Vision:
Social justice: restoration of human rights and dignity to the marginalised and disadvantaged, and regeneration of deprived neighbourhoods
Reduced social costs: an end to the largest cause of acquisitive crime and street prostitution, and consequent falls in the non-violent prison population
Reduced serious crime: dramatic curtailment of opportunities and incentives for organised and violent crime
Public finances: the financial benefits of discontinued drug enforcement expenditure and the taxation of regulated drugs
Public health: creation of an environment in which drug use can be managed and drug users can lead healthier lives
Ethics: adherence to ethical standards and principles, including fair trade, in the manufacture, supply and distribution of drugs
Reduced war and conflict: an end to the illegal drug trade’s contribution to conflict and political instability in producer and transit countries
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@ Get real Jersey #24
“…its the families of these people you have to feel sorry for…”
I feel sorry for their victims rather than their families.
The only reason to send foreign prisoners to there home country would be to s@ Get real Jersey #24
“…its the families of these people you have to feel sorry for…”
I feel sorry for their victims rather than their families.
The only reason to send foreign prisoners to there home country would be to save the tax-payer’s money. Unless their home country is willing to take them and see they receive the sentence they would’ve in Jersey at a lower cost than La Moye I don’t see any reason whatsoever.
However I have mooted the idea previously that the SoJ(perhaps in conjunction/partnership with SoG?) purchase a piece of land on which to build a new large prison in France or the UK, where the costs would be less than Jersey; we could then house all EU prisoners there, and Jersey and ROW prisoners too, maybe even sell space to the notoriously over-crowed UK prison system??
I even have(at least had, it may be off the market) a piece of land in mind, but I can’t see any politicians having the balls or wit to think such a good idea could be a vote winner.
ave the tax-payer’s money. Unless their home country is willing to take them and see they recieve the sentence they would’ve in Jersey at a lower cost than La Moye I don’t see any reason whatsoever.
However I have mooted the idea previously
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Get Real Jersey 24
I get the impression you are more upset at the loss of your cheap labour than you are at the costs the taxpayer forks out to imprison these criminals.
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[24]
Just Incase that you are not aware,charging inmates board,rent,overheads, is illegal.this was a practise in UK prisons for many years,This now has been stopped.And I must make a point.inmates that have been charged B/B,rent,whatever,Have had all of those charges refunded.it is against the ECHR.
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Mulvie Le Phew [16]
I am very sorry to inform you,but you cannot refuse entry to any UK citizen with an UK police record to the islands.Unless they are,wanted by the police,have a sex offence and have to sign on at the local police police Station daily,if a person arrives on the island and can support themselves,you cannot refuse them entry.that is the law.
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If it saves money, what a fab idea, and maybe some tougher sentences for those who do commit crime?
Boarder controls maybe – the likes of NZ, Auz & USA, you commit a crime you are refused entry to Jersey. And those none residentially qualified who commit crime in Jersey, deport them for life.
Other countries take a tough stance on crime, the likes of Thailand, India etc so can we.
As they say, can’t do the time, don’t commit the crime!!!
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#22
Don Move
“…The exportation occurred before the importation to Jersey so should be dealt with first there.
..the prisoner can be warned that should he/she set foot on this rock again they will be prosecuted for the importation. ”
Good point, Don. Hopefully this might get taken up by Sen. Le Marquand.
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EX PRISON OFFICER #28
“that is the law”
Laws can be changed !
That is what this thread is all about.
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EX PRISON OFFICER [29]
Like other people who have commented I know you cannot refuse entry “that is the law” but the law should be changed, anyone from any country (including the UK) with a criminal record should not be allowed to enter Jersey like the US & Auz.
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Jersey is not an independent autonomous territory like the USA, Australia, New Zealand, etc so we cannot just make any law we like.
About 60 – 70% of Jersey legislation is in line with or will not conflict with UK or EC legislation.
One of the reasons that the States spend so much time arguing over sandwiches, cycle helmets, etc is that so many things are out of their control.
The Jersey police want tasers but the UK has refused to supply or allow them to buy them from elsewhere so the island remains a taser free zone.
If the island went off the rails in a serious way the UK would just step in and impose direct rule until it was sorted out.
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#33 – That is a crazy idea, you cannot start refusing people the right to travel because of their past.
Think about it hypothetically, so if I was in a fight when I was 19 and was charged with ABH, then 20 years later I wanted to visit Jersey I would be denied. Thats not fair as people do unfortunatly make mistakes but have their entire lives to make up for them. This cannot be reflected on a piece of paper.
Also – Oz and the US only denie people entry for specific crimes, not any crime.
Repeat offenders – Thats a different story
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29 Ex Prison Officer – re my previous comment regarding persons with a criminal record being dcenied entry into Alderney a Guernsey gov erned juristiction.
I defer to your better knowledge but this was certainly true in 1989 when I was there, the law may have changed but as Jersey makes it’s own laws wouldn’t it be a good idea to introduce. It just seems such an obvious way to keep out the vermin, OK it won’t stop those who are either local or yet to commit an offence but surely it’s a start.
As for those kind hearted souls suggesting that we send our criminals to 3rd world hell holes – it’s the type of compassionate response I’ve come to expect from many on this forum, thankfully it will never happen.
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Mulvie 36
“As for those kind hearted souls suggesting that we send our criminals to 3rd world hell holes – it’s the type of compassionate response I’ve come to expect from many on this forum, thankfully it will never happen.”
….and what if the convicted criminals are from said “3rd world hell holes”?
Besides, maybe it would be a a more effective form of rehabilitation to send our own convicts abroad on humanitarian projects to help build wells, schools etc in these poorer countries……I’m sure it would be very eye-opening for them and may help them to put their own lives into some kind of perspective.
It must be better than the current system of letting them watch tv or play games consoles throughout their sentence….what punishment is that? How is this helping them to repay their debt to society?
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BS Deluxe # 37. What a wonderful thought; send our own convicts abroad on humanitarian projects to help build wells, schools etc in these poorer countries. The idea of good coming from previous bad bad behaviour is appealing. It might just work in rehabilitating them.
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KJ
Not a crazy idea – it has happened in AUZ & NZ.
Stop the dysfunctional few coming to Jersey – what a better place the island might be for those who are law abiding and committed no crime throughout their entire lives?
And when convicted and they have had their short stay in a facility that does not offer TV’s, pool tables, games consoles etc, deport those “none local” who commit serious or repeat crime, a deterrent and clear message sent out to the rest of the world that Jersey does not want or tolerate crime and will make your time very hard.
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Pip Clement – we are ‘autonomous’ but in a manner slightly more subjugated than is the UK. that is, even the UK can’t pass laws that fly in the face of the human rights directive etc(or rather, they can, but will be struck down if challenged). similarly, we can make our own laws, but QEII must rubber stamp them, so theres no point in rocking the boat.
to ex prison officer – many thanks for your posts- its nice to read from someone with relevant information. the clause ‘can support themselves’ looks to provide wiggle room – that is to say, no entry without a pre-confirmed job…speaking of which, why don’t you offer your consultancy services to our esteemed Mr. Le Marquand
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I did not say that the UK was fully autonomous.
The development of supranational bodies like the UN and the EEC has limited any countries ability to act within its own borders.
Also the interdependence of states has completely changed the playing field on which they act.
The UK is still a sovereign state, Jersey is not.
In the long term states will cooperate more as it is the way to deal with an increasingly interconnected world. Air travel, the internet, etc means that it is only extremely repressive states like North Korea that are beyond much contact with the rest of humanity.
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