Jersey lags behind Europe in redundancy protection
Wednesday 10th March 2010, 3:00PM GMT.
Jersey’s employment legislation is as yet no further forward than at the time of the Woolworths closure, at the end of 2008
JERSEY is falling disappointingly behind the UK and Europe by failing to provide legal rights and protection for employees, says a new report.
The serious concerns about delays in enacting new discrimination and redundancy laws are expressed in the Jersey Advisory and Conciliation Service’s annual report for 2009.
In addition, the failure to set minimum legal standards for maternity and paternity leave is flagged up as an issue requiring immediate attention.
Director David Witherington said: ‘In my report in 2008, I expressed regret that, in the absence of any legislation, many employees who are made redundant are only entitled to receive their contractual or statutory notice. One year on and the situation remains the same, although it is probable that statutory redundancy payments will be introduced in the first half of 2010.’
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Why would the States bring in a law like this, when they themselves have made so many people redundant from Jersey Telecoms, Gas, and Water (they own these companies being the majority shareholder).
You only have to look at the other JEP headline of cuts in jobs and services in public sector, and overspeanding to realise that no protection laws on redundancy etc will ever come in until the States have restructured themselves.
Too little to late, or maybe never.
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Lets be honest, Jersey lags behind Europe in any area pertaining to human rights, racist housing policy ( quals ) being the most prominent. It wasn’t long ago you could see an ad for a Portuguese cleaning woman in the paper.
Sexual discrimination, racial discrimination, no employment rights, we’ve got it all.
Still there’s a boat out in the morning if you don’t like it.
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@ Mulvie Le Phew #2
“Lets be honest…”
That’s a good start…
“…racist housing policy ( quals ) being the most prominent…”
Shame you couldn’t keep it up all the way to the end of your first sentence though!
“…Sexual discrimination, racial discrimination, no employment rights, we’ve got it all…”
Have we? Care to give examples to prove any of those statements?
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Mulvie Le Phew you are absolutely right, unfortunately most people will not admit the true colours of Jersey.
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We are 100 years behind the time,didn’t you know?
Only the bad laws we copy from UK via EU.
When it comes to money we make our own rules and we will not be told you working class deserve better conditions.
Tough if you don,t like,you know where the harbour is!
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Eh up Jamboree’s at it again, The system of residential qualification is racist as it discriminates against all non indiginous ethnic groups in favour of the locals.
Examples of racial discrimination – quals, sexual discrimination – mandatory maternity leave or absence thereof, employment rights – the story headline.
Go on Jambo lets have some more.
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@2
Does this mean that countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Canada, The US etc are also racist as I can’t go live there.
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Jersey lags behind alot of countries in many ways. The truly awful housing laws are a classic example. I’ve heard it said on these forums that the system verges on residential apartheid. You’re not wrong there pal!!! The xenophobes round this neck of the woods don’t impress me either.
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I love the way that all these people seem to come over here and automatically think Jersey owes them something. I’m sure the country you originated from had some sort of immigration policy which discriminated against a certain set of people. Get over yourself and stop your moaning about the quals, Jersey owes you nothing.
If I was stupid enough to trundle off to the USA and discover, to my horror, that I can’t get a job because I need a green card, how idiotic would I look sitting there whinging about how America some how owes me a job!
YOU chose to move here, if you did not research these facts before you came then more fool you.
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big bean @2
Does this mean that countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Canada, The US etc are also racist as I can’t go live there
They may well have racist elements within them but it is not enshrined within the constitution the way it is in Jersey. The difference is they will tell you from the outset that not just anyone can live in their countries, you need permission by way of work permit or visa and once granted have the same rights as a local.
Jersey by contrast will let anyone in but you must suffer the oppressive 2 tier residential qualifications system for the qualifying period during which you may only rent ( not buy 11K excepted ) certain sub standard overpriced properties.
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9 jub I love the way that all these people seem to come over here and automatically think Jersey owes them something. I’m sure the country you originated from had some sort of immigration policy which discriminated against a certain set of people. Get over yourself and stop your moaning about the quals, Jersey owes you nothing.
All I want is the same rights you have in my country ( Great Britain ) where you can work in any job, rent or buy any property and not be discriminated against just because you were not born here.
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@ Mulvie le Phew #6
“…The system of residential qualification is racist as it discriminates against all non indiginous ethnic groups in favour of the locals…”
No it does not. You don’t seem to understand the words; indigenous, ethnic or racist.
The lack of mandatory maternity leave is not sexist, and there are employment rights.
Would you like another go to offer evidence to prove you statement, or would you like to apologise for the name calling and false accusation now?
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The housing quallies are NOT and example of racism as they apply all who arrive here equally (except, of course the very rich who can buy their way in!)
BUT, we don’t actually have any laws yet to make racism illegal- or sexism or any other ism. These laws were promised years ago, and were supposed to be introduced in 4 tranches, eventually covering sex, race, disability and age discrimination. At least one, if not 2 of these types of discrimination should have been outlawed by now. I remember the public meetings at which this was promised, but it still hasn’t happened!
Please don’t assume that this means it is just ‘outsiders’ who can be discriminated against. Fifty percent of Jersey born people (i.e. females) can still legally be discriminated against (i.e. lower wages). And if you want a cleaning lady of a particular ethnic origin, well you can still do it, even if Social Security and the Evening Post won’t allow job vacancies to worded as such. The law to perevent this doesn’t yet exist.
I am Jersey born, and I think this is utterly shameful for the C21. And I can recall the unseemly rush by the States to bring in the infamous Limited Liability law. What a contrast between the creation of laws to make money, and the creation of laws to protect the rights of people!
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This is the way it works:
Economic growth occurs by small businesses getting bigger and thus creating more jobs.
More interference in the process of business(ie regulations) means that there will be less jobs. The main reason that Jersey has more unemployment now than at any time in the past 30 years is because there is a lack of small businesses growing into big businesses in the Island.
Big business will over the next 12 months be making redundancies not creating new jobs.
Small business do not need disincentives such as expensive (for them) redundancy regulations.
So if we want to see more jobs created in Jersey we should not be looking at the likes of off Island owned banks and Investment companies owned by oversaes banks who care not about Jersey, its culture or its people. (Ask why there is a recent influx of South African finance workers in Jersey? It is because their own crime ridden country is in an economic mess).
We should look at small businesses to provide future economic growth. More regulations will mean less jobs.
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Peter Anthony Troy is against more regulation. I understand the advantages of a deregulated economy, but I am convinced that a positive balance needs to be struck between a dynamic, liberal economic model and a fair system where bosses are legally obliged to treat their employees with a bit more respect.
I understand that about half of Jersey’s government are millionaires; would it be correct to assume that the political interest of those at the top end of the economic order is artificially over-represented in the local body politic?
Mulvie Le Phew put it in his posting: “there’s a boat in the morning if you don’t like it.” I personally didn’t like it, so I flew out of the Island and am quite happy living on the mainland.
Good luck to the JDA – I hope they succeed one day in making life better for Islanders!
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There is not a great deal of correlation between regulation and unemployment in a countrys economy.
Peter Troy is completely ignoring all the other factors that come into play such as economic advantage and resources etc.
For certain industrys like finance, strong regulation of practitioners and firms can be a positive factor. There are a lot of overseas companies listed on the LSE because the exchange is known to be well regulated.
A company has to provide a lot of information to be listed and this creates confidence in investors looking to buy shares.
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As Bardon Kent points out there are advantages of an unregulated economy. The Anglo-Saxon economic model has been spoilt in the UK by huge amounts of EU social regulations that act as a barrier to economic growth.
By any measure economic growth comes from small to medium sized businesses, not large businesses. Yet whilst large businesses can absorb the cost and manage the detail of the additional regulation smaller concerns can not.
It is with great pity that I see Jersey’s business growth decline for the same reason as the UK’s; something that Jersey’s body politic has yet to understand.
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@ Brandon Kent #15
“…a fair system where bosses are legally obliged to treat their employees with a bit more respect…”
A bit more respect than now? Okay, suppose the laws are changed to give employees more benefits; does it stop there, or will they be back wanting more next year?
I think the laws in place now are actually pretty good for employees, I’ve faced one than one situation where an employee has done something outrageous, yet the employer can’t take any real action because the employee’s been straight down to JACS, and is very well protected from what I would think would be fair.
The article talks specifically about the Woolworth closure over a year ago; but nobody made redundant lost any money, they were all given their due notice, and received the payments they were contractually owed.
Some politicians kicked up a fuss that they should be given free money, and they duly were. We were told this would be re-couped, but as far as I know it hasn’t been, and never will be. How many of those Woolworths worker went on to get another job and just pocket the free tax-payers cash? How many didn’t find work and got the free cash and Income Support on top?
“…would it be correct to assume that the political interest of those at the top end of the economic order is artificially over-represented in the local body politic?…”
I don’t think that just because somebody is wealthy makes them interested in only looking after wealthy people; I’d say that most people in the States are there because they honestly want to do the right thing for Jersey. Dep. Pitman who when asked what being elected meant to her on her election night and replied something along the lines of ‘Well now I can clear my debts!’; would you argue that she’s only in it for the money?
“…I hope they succeed one day in making life better for Islanders!…”
As long as life is better, I don’t care if it’s the JDA or a bunch of billionaire 1(i)Ks elected to the States that achieve it.
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True Brit,
“All I want is the same rights you have in my country ( Great Britain ) where you can work in any job, rent or buy any property and not be discriminated against just because you were not born here.”
And what about all those people trying to get in to the UK from poorer countries and being sent back? I’m sure someone from the U.K wouldn’t have half as much trouble going to live in their country. Double standards much?
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Jub 19 – And what about all those people trying to get in to the UK from poorer countries and being sent back? I’m sure someone from the U.K wouldn’t have half as much trouble going to live in their country. Double standards much?
First may I apologise for commenting alongside the very valid posts by Mr kent and Troy, I’m afraid like a dog with a bone I simply cannot fail to comment on the post by Jub.
Jersey and the UK are like for like juristictions enjoying a free exchange of people working in both, therefore the comparison is valid. The same cannot be said for the UK and “poor countries” making yours a meaningless comparison. The simple fact is that the use of residential qualifications which creates an apartheid like two tier housing system is oppressive, predjucial and does not even serve the purpose for which it was created. As a means of population control it is totally ineffective,a large percentage of what were intended to be transient residents become permanant. Those that don’t simply contribute to the tax and social security systems providing additional income which will never be redistributed to those who paid it.
There is no place for this type of discrimination in the modern world and Jersey knows it, hence the continued reduction in qualifying period and recent laughable removal of the J cat ( hastily revised ) Jersey’s housing policy is indefensible as are it’s policies on human rights in general and if you believe otherwise then you belong to an outdated group of soon to be exstinct dinosaurs.
Jersey will have to come into line with the rest of the civilised world if it wishes to continue to function as a top offshore juristiction, pressure from outside will ensure that it either complies or dies, no one wants to be seen to do business with a racist.
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@ True Brit #20
“…Jersey and the UK are like for like juristictions enjoying a free exchange of people working in both…”
Not true, you don’t need 5years residency to get a job in the UK, unlike many jobs in Jersey.
“…no one wants to be seen to do business with a racist…”
Luckily Jersey’s system is not racist.
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J Lamborrai – Luckily Jersey’s system is not racist
Wikipedia definition of institutional racism “certain racial groups may be denied rights or benefits, or receive preferential treatment”. And you say that the residential qualification system does not fit within this description?
Jersey and the UK are like for like juristictions enjoying a free exchange of people working in both…”
Not true, you don’t need 5years residency to get a job in the UK, unlike many jobs in Jersey
As for the 5 year rule, there are people coming to work in finance from the UK all the time, building trade also, whilst a nominal restriction is in place there are still lots of people living and working in both islands from both nationalities.
I wonder if we could agree on the colour of an orange.
Let me turn this around, if the system of quals is intended to control immigration I ask the following questions.
Does it work – I would say not as it neither restricts nor controls immigration
Is it fair – clearly not
Is it racially predjucial – based upon the description of racism I’ve just given yes it is.
You either say it’s an unfair racist system that’s not fair and I don’t care or you admit that it needs to change.
You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Many locals have wanted work permits, linked to police checks to make sure that only people without crimminal records and with the right qualifications to undertake jobs are allowed into Jersey. Unfortunately, our government will not do this, so we have many people in our prisons who have continued their life of crime in Jersey.
We now also have people getting welfare handouts who should never have been allowed to come to the island.
THe 5 year rule and housing qualification are the only barrier we have against mass immigration into this tiny island – and that has been so successful in the UK!
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@ True Brit #22
“…racial groups…”
I believe the housing qualifications refer to your place of birth, length or residence, worth to society, relationship to Jersey or it’s residents etc. I’m pretty sure that there is no mention of race; if you know differently then please, please show me, or do the decent thing and apologise, or at least shut up.
“…I wonder if we could agree on the colour of an orange…”
That would depend on whether you were wrong about that too I guess.
“…Does it work…”
Was it ever solely to control immigration, or also to try and prevent immigration from causing the housing stock to become unavailable to local people; I think the later has to some extent been achieved.
“…Is it fair..”
I think it’s fair, in the same way as the systems used in Australia, EU, New Zealand and US amongst other’s I’m sure, are fair. Are you saying that those systems are unfair too?
“…Is it racially predjucial…”
Absolutely not.
“…You either say it’s an unfair racist system that’s not fair and I don’t care or you admit that it needs to change…”
True Brit: Have you stopped beating your wife? You either say; yes you have stopped beating your wife, or No, you haven’t stopped beating your wife.
So which is it; Yes or No?
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True Brit,
Have you not noticed what unchecked, mass immigration has done to your native country?
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25 Jub – Have you not noticed what unchecked, mass immigration has done to your native country?
Absolutely in my opinion it’s runined it, I don’t object to immigration restrictions providing they are fair and work. I firmly believe that Jersey needs an effective immigration policy but it must stop people at the point of entry, not let them all in, tax them but deny them basic human rights.
24 J Lamborrai – we appear to disagree about the definition of racism, ok lets drop the word, is the system of residential qualification discriminatory to everyone not born in Jersey – Yes.
Is this fair – clearly we disagree, I think not for the reasons outlined below.
You compare it to immigration controls used by the US, Australia etc but the cruicial difference is that if permitted to enter these countries you are treated as a local, your rights are equal. Jersey will let you in, take your taxes and social contributions and deny you the same rights to housing as locals, this is what I object to.
As for “have I stopped beating my wife”, in truth we both love a good game of Scrabble and we take it in turns to beat each other.
I’ll “shut up” now as I am about to board the “boat out in the morning”
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@ True Brit #26
“…we appear to disagree about the definition of racism…”
We do, I took mine from a dictionary, you made yours up.
“…is the system of residential qualification discriminatory to everyone not born in Jersey – Yes…”
In the same way that any system of qualification for any is.
“…Is this fair…”
In the same way that most other immigration system are fair, yes.
“…you are treated as a local, your rights are equal…”
Many right may be, as they would in Jersey, but to enter the US with a Green Card does not give you the same rights as gaining citizenship, and gaining citizenship still doesn’t give you all the rights of somebody born in the there.
“…As for “have I stopped beating my wife”…”
I asked for a ‘yes’ or ‘no’; and if you can’t see why maybe you should think about the question you asked me.
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True Brit,
I’m sorry but if people were that concerned about their human rights being violated they should not come. Simple as that.
But people DO come so they clearly can’t be that concerned. By completely stopping these people coming just seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. These people are not forced to live in Jersey. They come here and continue to live here because it’s better then the life they left behind.
The system as it is now, allows me to live with my partner from england, without having to marry her just to allow her to live here.
In your opinion she should have been stopped on entry? I know alot of other people in the same position who are very appreciative to the way the current system is.
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Just caught sight of this thread priceless, You’re wasting your time with Jambo mate. Have to commend you on being polite whilst being insulted, you are right the system stinks but you’ll never change it and you’ll never get a local to admit it’s wrong, not while they are getting rich on it.
I reckon Jambo must be a Jersey landlord cos he’s never off this forum doing any work.
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