£2.25m: The cost of swine flu
Thursday 11th March 2010, 3:00PM GMT.
The swine flu vaccine.
JERSEY’S Health department spent £2.25 million on combating swine flu, it has been revealed.
Only 706 Islanders have been struck down by swine flu, which arrived in Jersey last June, with no one being diagnosed in almost five weeks.
The department has been praised by many for successfully protecting the Island against a major outbreak. But others have criticised the department for over-reacting and overspending on a disease which, for many, was no worse than seasonal flu.
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They can’t win, can they? Try to protect the population – as was the worldwide advice – and we moan. If they’d refused to pay the money, we’d moan.
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@ Pip Clement #4
“…To get it in perspective, if the UK had spent at the same rate as us they would have paid out over a £180bn on swine flu measures…”
No they wouldn’t, they would’ve spent ~£2bn (assuming the same cost price) I think you’ve multiplied the cost per diagnosed person in Jersey by the entire population of the UK ~60m.
The last figure for confirmed cases in the UK is around 10k, so to correct your sum at a similar rate to Jersey they spent around £200,000 per case more than Jersey did. Which sounds like Jersey’s authorities did a bloody fine job, well done!
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They can win – Its easy. Dont buy in to every media-hyped story that blows up. Foot&mouth – Bird-flu and then this. Why dont we learn to go off figures instead of what the media reports?
And what the love did they spend this much money on exactly? If it was all on vaccine, fair enough, but I seriously doubt that.
Obviously the states has to be seen to react to risk’s like this but this is an astonishing amount of money to spend on something thats no more deadly than many other viruses we see in the island every day
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I think it is a disgrace in that much money being spend when it could have been used for a lot more and better causes. Is this the reason around a couple of hundred jobs in health is under threat?
I think the health department did a good job making people aware to the public but it got a tiny bit out of hand with Dr Gellar informing us 140 people were going to die and now how much money used for about 2 per cent of the public that got the disease.
What a waste of money to taxpayers..!!
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The other question is what have they done with the remainder,it is Mercury loaded and can’t go down the drain…real answer please.
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One has to question the purchase of the enormous amount of Tamiflu, vaccine and sending a thermometer to every household when the island is talking about budget cuts of £60M over the next three years with the loss of jobs and services.
There are some areas like accident and emergency at the hospital that will be almost impossible to cut so there will have to be deeper cuts elsewhere.
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Whilst it appear to have been an over reaction on Dr Geller’s part, I guess she was damned if she did and damned if she didn’t.
However it is still a scandalous waste of our money at a time our Government seems to be running amok squandering money on all sorts of matters because of their own inability to run a tight ship.
So….as one of the ‘have nots’ on the Island, and as I chose not to take up the swine flu jab offer, can I take it in cash please?!
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What is the cost of the MOH department ?
how many people are employed ?
What is the salary sum?
It appears to be a free spending ‘empire’.
The commendation from other quangoes are bound to praise an outfit which itself benefits from public money. Let’s see the total cost/benefit of this department. Accounts please.
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The so called “pandemic” produced an absurd over reaction on the island, as has now been shown.
In January 2010, Dr Wolfgang Wodarg, a Dutch Social Democrat deputy, who trained as a doctor and now chairs the health committee at the Council of Europe, claimed major firms organised a “campaign of panic” to put pressure on the World Health Organisation (WHO) to declare a “false pandemic” to sell vaccines. Dr Wodarg said the WHO’s “false pandemic” flu campaign is “one of the greatest medicine scandals of the century.” He said that the “false pandemic” campaign began last May in Mexico City, when a hundred or so “normal” reported influenza cases were declared to be the beginning of a threatening new pandemic, although he said there was little scientific evidence for this. Nevertheless he argued that the WHO, “in cooperation with some big pharmaceutical companies and their scientists, re-defined pandemics,” removing the statement that “an enormous amount of people have contracted the illness or died” from its existing definition and replacing it by stating simply that there has to be a virus, spreading beyond borders and to which people have no immunity.
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Thats over £2M down the drain then according to my analysis. Mind you I’m not getting paid over £100,000 to make this diagnosis.
What next turkey flu just in time for Christmas?
Maybe the states were worried too many would be away from the treadmill for too long so thought they had better help big business make sure everyone was rearing to go and had no excuse to be away?
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I dont belive them anymore!
They started picking on the pigs,chickens and cattle (and their tongues), and now its our turn. Watch out for next year. Who can guess what will be next?
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A rather arrogant response from Dr Geller – accountable to no one. Why on earth didn’t Health buy enough for the high risk groups only and review ths situation as it developed. Another example of ill advised panic buying and mis-management at its very worst in Health. Also consider the numbers of new ventilators and beds bought to address the mass numbers of patients – like the vaccine now in storage, unused.
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There is convincing evidence that at some time a devastating flu epidemic will take place. When swine flu initially spread through Mexico and the U.S. the number of deaths was alarming. As it turned out this was not the ‘big one’. But it will happen and most probably in the form of avian flu, which is particularly unpleasant. Personally I am pleased to live somewhere where the authorities are willing to spend money to protect the population. Lets face it we all spend huge amounts on insurance but hope that we never need to use it.
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Well I might be in a minority in as much as I am not some ‘wise after the event’ carping immediate internet expert on Swine Flu and all other infectious diseases who after spending ten minutes on Google and alighting on any crazy red neck conspiracy website that comes up knows everything there is to know about public health; but I will say congratulations to Dr Geller and her team who did their job and their best to protect us from a very unstable mutating virus that by the grace of god did not evolve into something far more dangerous.
I am more than happy that they spent the money protecting my family and I and hope they take no notice of a bunch of ignorant fools and do the same again when necessary
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#5 truthseeker
“The other question is what have they done with the remainder,it is Mercury loaded and can’t go down the drain…real answer please”
That’s interesting,Truthseeker. Mercury was once the treatment for Syphilis, which I believe is making a comeback.
New health scare for Jersey, Doctor?
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Whilst accepting that Dr.Geller has a responsibility to advise the island,it was apparent from day one that she would follow the lead of the UK.It was also apparent that she saw the only option as to buy in and stock pile vaccine and was supported in this process by the ex- Chief Officer of H&SS.Any attempts to advise her differently were ignored.
Fact of life is that the MOH is a highly paid officer with a growing empire which spends majorly more money than that given to Community Care and the needs of the ageing population.The whole thing smacks of ” the emperor’s new clothes” mentality.
Next we await the cost of the long awaited New Directions project to see how much more funding the MOH will request.
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Well Boris I for one said this would be a none event when they first mooted the idea about buying all this vaccine last autumn. So I make my comments without the luxury of hindsight I’m afraid. I was proved right before the event and after it and I haven’t been paid a penny for this sound advice. You pay for all this if you want to but don’t expect others to have to do so.
Just incase you were going to ask I wouldn’t have taken it even if there had been a pandemic and people had died from it over here.
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This is carping with hindsight. The WHO and other international bodies pushed the panic button. Result Dr Geller worked on the best information available. If that information was wrong don’t pillory the person who took the best descion on the best information then available. Suppose the information had been right, and steps not been taken? Do you complain the Fire Brigade spend most of their time doing nothing?
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#14. Dr Geller was advised more than once not to stock pile vaccine for the entire population. There is no wise after the event attitude here. Yes the Jersey taxpayer wants his or her family protected by Health and that is what is deserved. However you just have to look at the recent report into the unfortunate patient death to see evidence that the expected level of protection and competence unfortunately just isn’t there.
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If we are trying to work out the cost of this protection exercise then surely we should be asking how much was spent per head of the population as in point of fact it was the entire population that Dr Geller was tasked with protecting. If we assume a population of 90,000 and a stated cost of £2,250,000 then the cost per head was around £25 per person. putting this all in proportion (which many people find extremely difficult) this is far less than many spend in town on a Friday night and is certainly less than a three course meal in any restaurant. Examples I am sure which will cause a spin-off into ‘not everyone can afford to go out on a Friday and eat in a restaurant’ land.
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I’m with Boris on this issue, Dr Geller worked with the information she was being given by the WHO, and took similar action to other countries.
At the end of the day she chose to buy an insurance policy, it wasn’t needed, but you can’t say it was wasted either.
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Boris (comment 20)While I can agree with your cost per head being less than the cost of a meal out it does concern me that there was a lot of scaremongering about swineflu in Jersey which wasn’t the case in the part of the UK in which I live.A couple of people I know got it,it was less serious than “ordinary” flu and they were over it in a couple of days.What worries me is that next winter you can almost guarantee another strain of some flu type thing will raise it’s ugly head and the panic button will be hit again.And the following year etc etc…
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Boris #14 & 20
Well said.
Many thanks to you Dr Geller
Adrian #17
Next time we have the threat of a mutating virus that could decimate the world population I will tell the W.H.O. to give you a ring. a quick squeeze of your seaweed and throw a few rocks in teacup and you could save billions. Not too sure if that would be lives or £s though ?
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Julie I don’t know which part of the Mainland you live, but. In London it was storys of plauge carts roaming the streets and calls of ‘Bring out your dead!’. The bus garages in London were issuing alchol hand cleaneaser to every driver. Bus , still have, posters over them about using tissues, how far flu germs can spread. The telephone number for the ‘The NHS Flu Line’ was prominetly displayed. Scaremongering? I’d call it ** terrifing!
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PJG over £2M could have been saved this time without a life lost. I said it was scaremongering back last autumn and I stand by my statement I made then. Note no hindesight was required to make this correct call either.
Boris I would say the population is well over 100,000 so you calculation is probably nearer £20 a head to my way of thinking. Nevertheless it is stil a large sum in anyone’s books to have to spend for a non event.
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maybe Adrian it was the spending and Geller’s policy that turned it into a non-event it is very difficult to prove otherwise
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Adrian #25
Yes Adrian, as I said what’s the use of all this silly science stuff when “you” can do such a fantastically accurate Nostradamus ?
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I live, love, love the 3 free thermometers Dr Geller kindly arranged to be delivered by the highly efficient, and very cheap local postak service.
I simply cannot wait until I receive my free micrometer (for measuring all of our fat kids waistlines), the free alcohol breath testers (to make sure we arent all drinking to excess heaven forbid), and nicotine patches for the entire population (just in case).
Come on Dr Geller, spend some more of our hard earned. Then we will be only too glad to pay more than the 13% combined social security payments we already do.
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Hark..the sound of silence…still no news on the disposal of the Tamiflu..which contains 25 Micrograms of (Thimerosal)Mercury ..250 times more than the reccomended intake for Tuna lovers, what have they done with it….?
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PJG who would you go with someone who gets it wrong or someone else who gets it right?
Mind you you are bang one with the silly science stuff some of it is mumbo jumbo IMHO and is just waiting to be shot down in flames as rubbish, but hey ho such is life.
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26 Boris
“maybe Adrian it was the spending and Geller’s policy that turned it into a non-event it is very difficult to prove otherwise ”
I seem to remember another strain of deadly flu a few years ago…….Bird Flu!
I do not recall the States mass-immunizing the population. How many people died?!
For those that are brainwashed into believing everything the government tells them then perhaps you should start asking questions about why these “mutations” are occurring so frequently.
Are they natural or man-made?
You may think this as a conspiracy theory, but one thing we must have all learned by now is that we cannot trust the authorities……we do not know a fraction of what really goes on in the world….only what they want us to know!
In today’s world, with the ever increasing appetite and greed for wealth I would not be surprised if health companies are actually creating these strains so they can sell another product (vaccine).
I remember the cigarette companies got caught out because they were putting ingredients in to their tobacco to “addict” their customers.
This would be no different.
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To those who have postulated that it is easy to assess after the fact, I suggest that there were plenty of people, myself among them, who were seeing this as a farce from the beginning.
EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFORE YOU VACCINATE is a cry in the wind against the power of the pharmaceutical companies, but I wrote this in April last year.
There are plenty of good web sites to refer to, and which you should read and study carefully, before proffering your left or right arm for an injection of unknown substances. And yet, because our Government says it is OK, many will foolishly extend that arm.
Next time, stop, think and educate yourself first.
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Maybe you are right Boris but I don’t really think it made a jot of difference.
Valid point BSD, if a few new man made viruses, constructed in a laboratory, accidently escaped into the environment we could have an epedmic on our hands. If someone happened to have the antidote there could be a lot of money to made made IMHO. Indeed if this were to ever happen would we be told by our caring government or would it be classified information, so as not to panic the population into rash actions?
However if population reduction is secretly on the cards then why bother with the vaccine? Who really knows what happens at secret research labs around the world? Indeed how do we know “Bin Hiddin Too Well” living in his secret cave hasn’t got some ready and waiting for us to sample already?
Lead was great in petrol for years until suddenly someone realised it was bad for you. Asbestos was great for building with until someone suddenly realised it killed people. Smoking was great as it was a big revenue maker until someone in the government realised that it actually killed people and caused lots of time lost from work and cost more than the taxes brought in.
As per health products I would say to maximise your returns you need to make sure you don’t cure the problem but you manage it for the rest of someone’s life, or at least drag it out as long as possible.
“but one thing we must have all learned by now is that we cannot trust the authorities” I must say I really enjoyed the X-Files it gave me a good perspective on things.
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It should be remebered that in 1918/1919 Flu killed more people than the entire Great War. Now the comparsion is flawed for several reasons , not least being the lack of antibiotics and vaccines. However we now live in a higly risk averse society. The current furore over cycle helmets for instance. Given that fact alone, would anyone who has commented have been willing to go against the best advice at the time and say ‘No we’ll let the Islands population take it’s chances?
Not me for sure.
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The simple fact is that State’s departments will have to get better at allocating resources so they meet real needs.
Under Phillip Ozouf’s financial plan £15 – 25M will have to come out of the health budget over the next three years without any major cuts in front line services!
I assume we are still taking the CoM seriously
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truthseeker
“Hark..the sound of silence…still no news on the disposal of the Tamiflu..which contains 25 Micrograms of (Thimerosal)Mercury ..250 times more than the reccomended intake for Tuna lovers, what have they done with it….? ”
So far, Just thee and me Truthseeker.
They should extract the Mercury and present Dr Geller with a nice Barometer (Fortin’s, not Aneroid).
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Tony B
The comparison with the Flu epidemic post WW1 is not flawed at all. The common factor is that both these flu viruses crossed the species epidemic and these are potentially the most dangerous which is why everyone is getting so hot under the collar. It is a repeat of the 1919 outbreak that medical professionals fear the most. It is the instability of the flu virus and it’s POTENTIAL to MUTATE which causes the problem. Cross species flu viruses by their very nature are the most likely to mutate and cause the problem as they have already mutated to cross the species in the first place. You cannot sit back and wait for it to cause havoc before you do something.
The 1919 outbreak spread around the globe and it is estimated it killed up to 100 million of those who caught it if you include those who died from related complications such as pneumonia. It was particularly dangerous in the young and healthy as it used the body’s own immune system to attack the host body. The younger and therefore fitter you were the stronger the virus and the more deadly the attack.
Now this said I would ask all you clever people out there. Do you really want the WHO and Geller et al to ignore this lesson of history or would you rather they reacted to every emerging cross species flu virus as if it could be as deadly or even more virulent than the 1919 version?
The choice thankfully is not yours (collectively) it is the purview of people with a little more upstairs and the interest of the world’s population as a whole at heart.
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I think we can all declare an island-wide holiday!
For once (only this time, mind!) I find myself in complete and utter agreement with opinions expressed by PJG.
And they say that the age of miracles has passed!
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Better safe then sorry if you ask me. If the Health dept had done nothing and there would have been an outbreak, you lot would have moaned that nothing was done to protect us. They did take steps to protect us and you still moan.
Our polictians are not a great bunch I grant you but on this issue, I think they got it just about right. The health of the population is something that has to be protected.
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39 Peter
If the government had the welfare of it’s population as the only reason for mass immunization then please can you explain why the Tamiflu they were using was due to expire a few months later when it’s shelf life is several years.
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In Dr. Geller’s “20 years as a public health doctor” she should have learnt that the take -up rate of vaccination is always well below 50%. So why order enough for 100% of the popualtion? There were 446 deaths in UK but the population of UK is more than 446 times Jersey’s. The statisical and actual result for Jersey was nil deaths so credit cannot be claimed for that. Could Dr. Geller give examples of countries that, on a pro rata basis, did worse than Jersey? Would she also confirm the percentage premium over the normal price that Jersey paid for its flu vaccine in order to be first in the queue? It all looks like the spending departments still see spending lots of taxpayers’ money as their main reason to exist.
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Tony B “would anyone who has commented have been willing to go against the best advice at the time….” I did and I stand by what I said last autumn!
As others have pointed out here and I did last autumn this vaccine has mercury in it. As we all know mercury is no longer used to fill cavities in teeth. Does anyone know why this is now the case? If you do then you might be thinking, is it really a good idea to be getting yourself injecting with it?
Boris “It is a repeat of the 1919 outbreak that medical professionals fear the most.”
or an unexpected leak from a research facility.
How convenient that war wasn’t interrupted! Where would they have got the men to fight the war if this had occured a few years earlier. Maybe if it had of struck in 1914 we would have been saved from all this butchery?
“The choice thankfully is not yours (collectively) it is the purview of people with a little more upstairs and the interest of the world’s population as a whole at heart.”
Would you bet your life on the above statement?
Peter “Our polictians are not a great bunch…”
You’ve blown their cover IMHO.
BS Deluxe I was shocked when I saw that the five years was all but up when I looked at vaccine box my friend had for her child, and saw the date 01/2010 on it.
Brightflame it was I believe for 200% of the population. So I make that double what was to be needed in the most dire of circumstances.
Not that I am an expert or anything on this topic.
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#41 Brightflame. Thanks for this, I agree. I understand the Treasury have a terms of reference for a review to make sure the funds spent were justified, and the procurement process was appropriate. I’m sure Scrutiny will also pick this up once the dust has settled. Bear in mind there were ventilators and beds bought as well which are also unused and now in storage.
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Silence over the disposal of Tamiflu and it’s mercury content….is beginning to look incriminating to me, The Jersey way Huh…close your eyes and ears and make out it did not happen…….Trinity infill….still strangely silent….?
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Udupi#38
Perhaps, like the flu virus one or “both” of us has mutated into a reasonable thinker (I am not going to speculate who !!)
Adrian
I have advised the WHO of your fantastically accurate foresight in predicting the mutation of viruses etc into species annihilators, they sent thanks and said they would monitor this site and follow your quatrains with interest.
I though great, now we can all rest in peace no more money would be wasted holding life saving drugs in stock just in case mother nature bowled us googly when lo and behold you let me down by not predicting the mutation mentioned above.
I will send an apology.
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@ truthseeker #44
“…still strangely silent..?…”
truthseeker, can I assume all the times you’ve not bothered to answer a question it’s because you have something to hide?
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44
Why do you think they are digging up the avenue?
Good place to bury something as long as it don,t need to be dug up again for umpteen years.LOL
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PJG I wouldn’t have bothered there is no profit in it.
As per mother nature she will dispose of when she sees fit regardless of others tamperings.
Anyway I would be more concerned about all the labs around the world playing with viruses and deseases. I suggest you watch the Satan Bug for an enlightening story on what could happen in these circumstances.
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R B Bougourd…..I guess there are so many gaffs and Faux’s pas’s now people are becoming innured to the calamatous way this place is being run…so poisoning the sea with mercury ,cadmium etc is fairly small beer to them.Terry Le Sueur goes on the radio,won’t answer direct questions,”Chief Minister” will ther now be a referendum for Govt reform….”Err um well we have this and that going on….de blah de blah evasion and so on because they want to hold on to power and this method of rollin elections enables them to hang on..so not even a straight answer…at Least Bob Hill answered clearly….I cringe at being represented at any level by a chief minister who displays Zero charisma or credibility.
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#22 I was back in Glasgow while Glasgow was at its worst with swine flu and the whole time I was there it was only mentioned when I asked why there wasn’t any obvious sign at the airports or hospitals of a pandemic. The UK did carry out a scaremongering attack with the letters it sent to medical professionals, businesses, schools etc, but since the various fuel ‘crises’ no longer raise an eyebrow I suspect the UK citizens have just got used to ignoring a lot of the media hype.
Our politicians and media moguls should be made to watch Charlie Brooker.
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Adrian 48# says
“PJG I wouldn’t have bothered there is no profit in it”
Adrian you shock me, a chance to help your fellow man turned down.
OH well looks like we will have to rely on Dr Geller in the future.
Still she has a good record, nobody in Jersey died of swine flu.
Not like some of the other places where someone’s child died a horrible death a lot of posters on here are conveniently forgetting about.
Thank you Dr Geller, please keep up the good work
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PJG it wasn’t meant in the way you’ve interpreted it and you know it.
My advice cost zero to implement and was given for free. How much have others cost for the wrong decision? Maybe you can afford to waste money people like me can’t.
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PJG
“Still she has a good record, nobody in Jersey died of swine flu.”
Well that justifies the overspend of £2.25 million on (almost out of date) Tamiflu then!
Perhaps no one died because there was no REAL threat???
No one in Jersey has died of rabies either…..or ebola, or more relative…. bird flu. Was that due to mass immunization (which we obviously didn’t get) or simply down to the lack of a REAL threat??
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