Le Sueur warns firefighters: No backing down over pay
Thursday 18th March 2010, 2:59PM GMT.
Chief Minister Terry Le Sueur
JERSEY’S Chief Minister has warned firefighters that the States will not back down over last year’s public sector pay freeze – just 24 hours after they threatened widespread industrial action.
The Fire and Rescue Service Association yesterday said that indefinite action would start at 9 am next Wednesday unless the States reopened talks over pay and conditions.
But Senator Terry Le Sueur said that there were no plans to award any pay rise for last year and added that he ‘very much regrets’ the firefighters’ threat of industrial action.
All public sector workers were denied a pay rise last year, but were recently offered a new two-year deal.But the association said that it would not negotiate any new deal until last year’s rise was settled.
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Did anyone get a cost of living rise last year? The cost of living went down last year (apparently) therefore wages don’t go up.
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I’m with you there Sarah, I didn’t get a pay rise and I don’t expect one this year. If they have been offered 2% they are doing well.
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Strike boys!beat them to the end!
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Sorry but considering the dangerous jobs they often do,I think they deserve a decent salary.Scrap ministerial government,reduce the number of politicians and make some savings there,Chief Minister.
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Nice to know their Chief Officer is right behind them! It’s due to the worrying working conditions, ie. Manpower that this has come about-not all about pay! I think they are right to stand up for themselves. Good Luck guys
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I agree they should have more pay but the opposite end of that is are they putting peoples lives at risk by striking? If there is a major incident will more lives be at risk because they are on strike? This isn’t like the uk where the army can be drafted in to cover the strike areas (i remember plymouth during those strikes and all the fire men sat outside the station with their banners)
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The pay freeze was cost of living. Because the cost of living didnt increase therefore the wages did not increase. It does make sense!! At least they got offered 2% its more than most people have been offered!!
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Honestly – how many fires does Jersey have anyway! This is about productivity and getting our bang for the buck. If they are not careful, things could be looked at a little closer and you may well end up like the UK firefighters. Quit whilst your ahead, you’ve got a damn good deal anyway!
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ha ha
wonder what they would do if the states assembly caught fire and firefighters on strike.
Will they still be fiddling while Rome burns…
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The Fire & Rescue Service do a fantastic job. Pay them wat they deserve….!!!!
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The Fire fighters have my full support. It is about time dictatorial government was stood up to IMHO.
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pay firefighters what we can afford and we that is you and I cannot afford to give them a pay rise
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Let’s not worry about the BA strike, let’s wait for the firefighters!!!
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@comment 4!! the army has a far more harder and risky job, get paid less and dont complain… why should they get more money doing less, and i agree with other posts they are ahead getting 2% more than anyone in our current finance situation.
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Industrial action, work to rule, not strike, that’s what they’ve said.
Jono, i think they would be more than happy for someone to have a closer look, and they do much more than just firefighting, a lot more.
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Firemen do an excellent job, but they should not over estimate their qualifications. Most fit people could be trained to be firemen.
Firemen should not expect to be paid as much as private sector jobs AND be able to retire 10 years earlier on an index linked pension.
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Ref 16
Dave
Its not only about fitness plus the Law states that firefighters must retire @ 55 but not on ‘rosey pension’ as you suggest.
Also as a footnote for the next 10yrs the firefighters have to find a ‘full self employed stamp’ which does not have any tax relief ! unlike anyone else that is self employed !
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If they are under equipped and under staffed i can understand them demanding more money for extra equipment and extra staff,but as for asking for a pay rise thats just pure greed under the current economic circumstances.How much does the average fireman take home a week,bet you its double what i earn on a building site and they get to retire at 55 on a nice pension.So if they get their pay rise it means the rest of us will probably end up paying more tax in GST,and what hope have i got of getting a pay rise?Probably the same chance as i’ve had the last 4 years-NONE.Thanks boys,you go ahead and hold the States to ransom,we all really appreciate it.
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Dave, i wouldn’t want a 65 year old wobbly fireman coming to my rescue!
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Seriously, who the hell do these guys think they are? Yes they do a tremendous job…BUT HEY WAKE UP. We are all effected as an island. Not many (if any people) have had a pay rise. Unions stamping their feet. Ive experience dealing with and being part of a union at times in my career. Each time the union official is an uninformed shouter. Screw your heads on and just wait till we recover.
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I comment as someone who has served in HM Forces as an infantry soldier, worked in the finance industry in Jersey, and currently serve as a professional firefighter.
I have read several comments that compare firefighters to members of HM Forces serving in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Pay for soldiers has never been great considering the potential risk, but soldiers are made aware of the pay structure before they are asked to take the oath of allegiance. Believe me, soldiers moan about everything – including pay!
Many of your firefighters in Jersey are HM Armed Forces Veterans and have voted to take this very limited industrial action. Please consider this before you comment.
Being a firefighter in Jersey is not a dangerous vocation, but it is being made more dangerous by the increasingly limited funding for the Service.
More dangerous for us, more dangerous for you, more dangerous for our families and friends.
Please don’t think that this is all about firefighters’ pay packets. It isn’t.
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Yeah yeah we all agree the Fire Service do a great job but …. firstly they actually get paid very well compared to many people in Jersey (finance exepted of course!!) and (practically) no-one else got a pay rise last year as … and im surprised this has to be said … there was a recession!
I didnt get a pay rise and personally i view my job as just as important as anyone elses! Life sometimes is a bit hard but throwing your toys out of the pram will not improve your lot!
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With reference to what everyone has been saying about pay. if you read and listen to the news properly they’re saying that it isn’t over a pay rise at all… from what i can gather is that it’s all over terms and conditions. having spoken to some firemen they seem to be saying that if the offer was on the table for 2% with looking at terms and conditions they would take it but the gastapo government we have over here are too pig headed to see… i think people should read the news properly and look into the thing properly. Go for it guys we’re all behind you!!!
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22. Good comment – at least someone has been listening to what’s going on.
THE FIREFIGHTERS ARE NOT GOING ON STRIKE!!! They are taking industrial action which is basically working to contract – which I don’t think there is anything wrong with.
This is all about conditions, lack of training etc. Would you expect someone to do a very risky job without appropriate training? That’s where accidents happen. How are the FF’s supposed to know how to tackle a house fire, boat fire etc. without proper training? The Fire Service will need funds for this training to take place and they just don’t have any money so that training is falling by the wayside.
You wouldn’t let somone in your house to fix your gas boiler without the proper qualifications so why is it ok for the FF’s to go without? It’s your lives they’re saving!
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Bean Boy #23
Bit presumptios of you young bean
OH NO “we’re all” NOT !!
Some of us think the “gastapo” unions need to be Thatcherised again.
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23 Bean Boy – With reference to what everyone has been saying about pay. if you read and listen to the news properly they’re saying that it isn’t over a pay rise at all… from what i can gather is that it’s all over terms and conditions.
If true then why does the headline say ” Le Sueur warns firefighters, no backing down over pay” Followed by “But the association said that it would not negotiate any new deal until last year’s rise was settled”
It would seem very much to be about pay, if not then accept that there will be no pay rise for last year and accept the 2% offered for this year and next. Make it clear that pay is not the issue and that conditions are, there might be more sympathy if we weren’t constantly hearing about pay related strikes.
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Maybe the firemen have been banging on about this for years in meetings with the States Employment Board and haven’t been listened to and have had enough. Their concerns about public safety and now very much their own is a prime issue, all this i’m sure is all inclusive.
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no 17.
The social security contribution rules are the same for anyone who retires early, but most people dont retire at 55, because they do not have the luxury of an index-linked final salary pension starting at that age. (and almost everyone starting work in the private sector now will not get any final salary based pension)
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Not a bad job they can sleep all night then carry out their part time jobs during the day and then get a decent wage from the tax payer. Come on get real times are hard
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No 28.
55 is not early, its the law.
They do not wish to retire at that age but they have to.
The private sector? All have/had the option of taking out a private pension.
FYI the pension decreases via SS payments from which they have no relief.
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No 29 are you joking, are they really allowed to sleep on night shift?
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As with all Public Sector pay rises they are a year in arrears so it was frozen prematurely. The States Employment Board has (presumably) realised that it messed-up and the 2% deal equates to a 1% rise (because the pay date has shifted 6 months) so the States don’t have to loose face. They are actually saying we won’t give you a 1% rise for last year but we will give you a 2% rise for the last 6 months of that year.
The issue is whether or not it is wise to accept the change of pay date with the probability of a consequentially unfavourable cost-of-living figure thereafter, and also; whether or not the workforce is willing to accept an assault on their terms & conditions.
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This is a work to rule not a strike. There is a difference in case certain people are unaware.
Yes why the need to move the date at which the annual pay is set? It couldn’t be to maximise the chances of a more favourable RPI rate at this time of year?
I myself would say terms and conditions are even more important than a cost of living realignment, as this could cost someone more in real terms.
As for those bleating on about retiring at 55, and how unfair it is, what about the armed services and the police force, don’t they retire even earlier than this? Do they have to wait until 55, 60 or 65 to get their pensions paid out?
I’m sure the states would be negotiating if the airport fire service were pulled out. An hour or two of this and these issues would soon be resolved IMHO, just like in Guernsey.
Green Bean “there is a recession on!”
Indeed there is, but life carries on and bills still have to be paid. Taxes and prices keep rising, but wages don’t! If things carry on like this many more people are going to be in financial difficulties. Then what?
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no.30,
Under social security rules, 55 is early retirement, whether or not it is the law for Firemen. Perhaps the law needs to be changed and people like firemen and police are moved into non front line roles.
Private pensions schemes do not give guaranteed final salary based index linked pensions.
As I previously said, social security rules are the same for everyone retiring early (before the age that state pension is payable).
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Job Swap!
Let the brave States members put out fires and save peoples lives.
Let the firemen run the island!
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Dave soon under social security rules early retirement will be 65 the way things are panning out. What then?
Let us be brutally honest most would be first in the queue to be out the door at 55 wouldn’t they? Especially with an indexed linked pension. There is more to life than work work work till you drop.
If jobs are going to become fewer and further between then it would make sense to spread them out amongst everyone instead of having people out of work IMHO. If this means reducing the retirement age why can’t this be looked at and solutions sought to the demographic timebomb? Why have a teenager out of work when there is someone aged 60 upwards still in a job who wants to be retired?
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@1. Yes they did & no it didn’t.
@2. Get a better job!
@6. Please try and understand the story!!! THEY ARE NOT STRIKING!
@7. Honestly if you are going to comment, try and get your facts right. THE COST OF LIVING DID GO UP LAST YEAR!!!
@8. What?
@12. I can afford it no problem! I think they are worth it! If you can’t afford Jersey Tax you might want to think about moving…. Or get a better job!
@14. You obviously don’t know anyone in the army, they complain like mad!
@16. You clearly have no idea what is required of an individual to become a Firem…… Oh forget it, i’m bored to tears!!!
SACK THE LOT OF THEM!!!!!
You are all right, there are loads of “Fit” people out there with no qualifications or experience, who will jump at the chance to risk there lives every day for a packet of HOBNOBS and retire at 95 with no pension and a slap round the face!…. Geniuses!
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Rozeljoe I’d go with the third line it should be an improvement. However I would outsource your second line so as not to put peoples’ lives at risk IMHO.
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don’t penny-pinch with the firefighters! allow them the right to strike. we need them to be well paid, and highly motivated, not downgraded and struggling financially.
they’re willing to do such a dangerous job, doing shift work… many thanks to those who came out and got the 2 feet of water out of my house at 4 am. would terry be as available in a crisis? well, he’d probably look at the water lapping at his knees, and categorically deny any incidence of water incursion – Jersey beiong ideally situated to withstand any flood-based incidents!!
just hope terry doesn’t require their services in the near future!!
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i had no payrise last year and in 4 weeks i will be taking a 24% pay cut to do the same work i am doing now.I am just happy to have a job
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postie
“i had no payrise last year and in 4 weeks i will be taking a 24% pay cut to do the same work i am doing now.I am just happy to have a job”
Looks like you need a good union, postie!
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41 Le Verdic postie
“i had no payrise last year and in 4 weeks i will be taking a 24% pay cut to do the same work i am doing now.I am just happy to have a job”
Looks like you need a good union, postie!
More like looks like you live in the real world Postie. Isn’t a good union an oxymoron?
I sympathise regarding the pay cut, I myself have had no pay rise for 2 years and don’t expect one this year but would also take a cut to keep the company going ( cue Adrian’s rant regarding empolyees earning the same as the company owner )
I think Boris made the point that the real issue here is one of disconnection between states workers and the rest of us as they seem to think they should be unaffected by the current crisis
Everyone can be replaced – strike away.
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Odd that the money has been found to redecorate three elaborate rooms which are occupied by the crown officers.
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Get the next boat bob, we won’t replace you.
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Well done Terry, you made them see sense
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Of course dave, this has never been brought up before with Terry. I believe every word he says too!
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43 t Get the next boat bob, we won’t replace you.
My name requires a capital letter as does your moniker which I’m guessing suffers from such brevity because you are still learning to spell the rest of it.
Boat out in the morning – not local by any chance are you. Why not take one yourself?
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It doesn’t matter now as the CoM have backed down as I thought they would.
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No 46 Belfast Bob You can stamp your feet and demand rises until you are worn out. If you hadn’t noticed, there is a recession at the moment and Mr Le Marquard is carefully steering his way through it like all other leaders.
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Toasted I used to steer the steam engine in the play park at Millbrook many moons ago before it was done away with on H&S grounds.
However no matter how hard I steered it it never got me anywhere. I can see the parrallels with the CoM.
As per boats out in the morning they are too expensive now aren’t they? How anyone can justify Jersey-UK costing more than UK-Jersey is beyond me but thats down to the people in charge I’m afraid.
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#26 The States would say the ‘strike’ is about pay, whether it is or not. It’s a (not particularly clever) political move, gets the public’s backs up and sets public opinion against the firefighters.
It would certainly be worthwhile finding out what the ‘strike’ is really about before turning against the firefighters since it’s not like we can trust the States (or the JEP) to tell us the truth!
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I don’t know about anyone else but IF I was promised something by someone I could trust I would be expecting the other party to the contract to be honouring their side of the bargain when due. If not why bother having it?
If this is the case then this is an issue of trust and accepting one’s obligations to me. Maybe others view things differently from me? What does a certain other person think on this issue I wonder?
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@ Adrian #52
For once I agree with Adrian, a promise is only equal to the trustworthiness of the person giving it.
“…I shall do so in my next post…”
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