Public sector jobs ‘will go’
Thursday 18th March 2010, 3:00PM GMT.
Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf speaking to business leaders at a Chamber of Commerce lunch yesterday
PUBLIC sector jobs will be lost as part of unprecedented plans to plug the States’ huge budget deficit, Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf confirmed yesterday.
Speaking to business leaders at a Chamber of Commerce lunch, the Senator said that he was considering introducing a temporary voluntary redundancy scheme and imposing recruitment freezes.
And he warned that unless measures to reduce States expenditure were successful, tax increases would be considered.
The controversial plans form part of the comprehensive spending review – a scheme launched earlier this year to reduce expenditure and improve efficiency to help plug deficits caused by the recession.
The States is expected to face a £64 million deficit this year, £72 million in 2011 and £53 million in 2012.
Read the full story in the Jersey Evening Post. Click here for subscription details. Individual editions are also available online.
The Queen's Diamond Jubilee
JEP Jubilee Editions
Saturday 2 June: Guide to Celebrations
Wednesday 6 June: Souvenir of Events
View The Queen in Jersey supplement
Travel
To, from and around the Island
Airport Arrivals/Departures
Harbours Arrivals/Departures
Bus Information/Timetables
This is Jersey
Jersey Evening Post
Useful links
I hope the teachers and firefighters are at the front of the queue.
Anyone offered a 2% payrise in this climate who is considering industrial action needs sacking IMO.
Report abuse
absolutly nothing wrong with what he is saying but let’s hope the States carry this through in an equitable manner and grasp the bull by the horns, doing everything all at one and not indulge in a ‘death of a thousand’ cuts or rear guard action.
institute a pay freeze or cut right across the board, including senior management. this excuse of the need to get good quality civil sevants from the UK with high wages is codswallop we have been doing this for years and I see no evidence of it working so far.
make compulsory redundancies now at 10% of the States workforce.
fully implement 20 means 20 straight away and forget about phasing it in over a period of time
raise the ceiling for social security contributions by 10% now
raise GST to 17.5% now on everything.
if this does not deal with the black hole then nothing will and we will be doomed anyway.
we can then start from a sensible level of taxation and rationalised civil service staffing levels.
we cannot keep faffing around tinkering at the edges of a fiscal crisis that our government thought we would avoid.
i would suggest to the council of ministers that if they have not go the collective kahunas to do what is necessary to sort out this mess out submit to an election and let someone else do it
Report abuse
Nothing new here Senator Ozouf and alot of spin.The Comprehensive Spending Review has been going on for years ( keeps changing it’s name mind ! ) and nothing has changed apart from inefficiencies and changes in positions.
Report abuse
How uneducated Frank! It’s people like you who are laughable! Let’s just hope your son or daughter don’t require educating and you don’t have a fire at your house eh!
Total lack of grey matter! Jog on
Report abuse
So let me get this straight…you are actually HOPING that teachers and firefighters get laid off from their jobs. What a lovely man you must be.
btw if you actually knew anything about the deal offered by the States to these two sectors (working conditions being the key sticking point…working conditions that will still be in place years after this recession has passed) you would understand why action is needed.
Instead you, like so many others, simply focus on the pay element and thus ignore the crux of the issue by assuming an overly simplistic view of the matter.
Interesting how the Finance sector has just been given £2,000,000 to ‘see it through,’ how the Treasury are happy to take on new staff, how a lovely new £40,000 sculpture has just been unveiled outside some offices in Columbrie, how the head of WEB will receive his £200,000+ salary this year…while front line services like teachers, firefighters and Health that will be bearing the brunt of expenditure cuts. Staggering.
Mick
Report abuse
The states departments have been top heavy for years with staff, without a doubt some work very hard,and it will be the manual workers that will go first, with the big chiefs protecting their own jobs. Let Senator Ozouf start with his states members and cut these posts by 10%, i could name at least ten states members who do not work like they should, taking holidays during the times when the states are sitting, calling in sick, turning up for meetings and leaving within minutes, going off to run their own businesses.Get real Philip put your own house in order before you attack the rest .
Report abuse
#2 Boris
Why is the answer to raise taxes on everything, surely you should just control spending…
Did you hear that Mr Ozouf…
CONTROL SPENDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report abuse
it appears to me as if as soon as you become a public sector worker your unbilical cord to the real world is cut. I am sorry but I care nothing that you teach my children, put out my fires etc we have no money and you lot are going to have to suffer along with the private sector and learn that you have no right to a job for life or pay rises every year. grow up and look around you. as a private sector employee who has suffered along with millions of others whilst teachers and firefighters and the police just carry on as normal and expect their above inflation rises I would ask why should you be any different? I as a tax payer am not prepared to fund your reciept of our largesse any longer!
Report abuse
And whilst I am on a roll we should not be funding any shortfall in the PERCS and Teachers pension fund, you want an income in retirement fund it yourself like the rest of us!
Report abuse
You could tax everyone at 50% and raise GST to 40% and eventually we would still be in the same mess the way things are bering run. I’m otof here asap.
Report abuse
This should warm the cockles of Kevin Keens hart
Report abuse
If they take out as many management posts as possible to allow the money to allow for savings and to go on the shop floor where it is needed like at the hospital then I agree 100%.
Boris it for this reason I think people should be paying directly for their children’s education. Then the teachers would be paid what they were worth wouldn’t they? Or do you expect to be subsidised by the private schools and those with no children? Having one’s cake and eating it comes to mind here.
Report abuse
Does the public sector include States Members – God i really hope so!!!
Report abuse
Boris 8 – brilliant post bang on my friend, if money is not the issue then why are they refusing a 2% rise this year and a guaranteed 2% next. I had nothing last year, won’t get anything this year and wouldn’t be surprised if next year is the same.
Pay rise – I remember them.
Post 4 Misc
Do you imagine of these people were sacked that they wouldn’t be replaced? jog on yourself mon ami.
And while I’m on a role if it’s the conditions that are the sticking point what are these onerous conditions, come on stop hiding behind this excuse and tell us what is being asked of them that is so unreasonable?
Good secure jobs, time off sick with full pay without the inquisition when you get back to work ( bank return to work interviews anyone? )pensions, redundancy if laid off.
Try the real world and see how good you have it over there in Disneyland.
Report abuse
answering a couple of comments, efficiency savings will not cover the black hole, tax increases will, we can then work backwards, playing catchup will never work and yes we should sack firemen and teachers and cut their wages, and stop turning the finance industry into the bogeyman it is this industry that pays for all these states workers and attracts billions to the island. no one puts their money in jersey because of the number of firemen it has!
Report abuse
The more our leaders talk about job cuts the more people they employ. Every time the new statistics are published, UP go the numbers.I cannot remember a fall in the head count EVER. But lots of jobs have gone at the coal face, so the pen pushers and computer tappers must be increasing.Over eight thousand people take their living from our taxes (including the so called trading departments). I don’t envy the minister, what a mess.
Report abuse
How come every department apart from Mr Ozoufs doesn’t have to make any cuts and amazingly employs someone just prior to his latest statement!
There were many who enjoyed big bonuses etc when the economy was in good health, not everyone has had that luxury.
Someone mind explaining why the public sector has to pay for the 50 million black hole, i always thought there were more people living over here.
Benefit fraud, perhaps they should closer at that too.
Report abuse
Yeah let’s get rid of the teachers and firemen Frank, oh, what happens when you can’t read the instructions on the box of matches and set fire to yourself?!!! Hope you enjoyed doing your colouring in today!!
Report abuse
@Frank
Ok…conditions.
- Giving up free periods (set aside for marking, planning etc…normally only 3-4 a week) to cover absent colleagues. Stopped happening in the UK years ago, still expected of teachers here
- Giving up your lunch and break time to go stand in the playground keeping an eye on the kids. Stopped happening in the UK several years ago, still expected of teachers here.
- With no real exclusion policy on the island (where would they go?) teachers in certain schools are repeatedly faced with disruptive, aggressive behaviour from pupils and have zero power to do anything but bear it. You know those nameless kids that keep cropping up in the papers for violent/anti-social behaviour…where do you think they spend their days?
So next time you are asked to cover an absent colleague’s workload after spending your lunch directing traffic in your company car park before being told to eff off by some untouchable young oaf…just remember that you’re being paid less by the year to do so, shut up and get on with the job.
Mick
Report abuse
It’s all these big salaried people who need to take the hit, the amount we hire and the wages paid to them are impossible without crucifying middle Jersey,,the civil service has become a self feeding tumour that needs invasive surgery…but the very people who bleed us call the shots on their own futures…so only States reform and the taking back of power will do it.
Report abuse
Yet again the States PR unit has gone into overdrive! If anyone believes that Senator Ozouf is actually capable of fixing this crisis then please close the door quietly after you leave.
He is the worst treasury minister we have ever had the misfortune to have in the states. At least Frank Walker told us time and time again that his committees were over spending year in and year out…. And yes Senator Ozouf was on those very same committees… I see a trend here… don’t you think?
We have paid fortunes for these so called experts to come to Jersey and destroy our once prosperous Island.. they have raped and plundered it for everything they can get out of it and now want us to pay even more in tax to subsidise the very same business that have made fortunes on the back of working class people… and that includes the thousands that work in the finance industry..
Throw Ozouf out now before its too late….. Alas I think it already is…
Report abuse
Yeah Ozouf thanks to a complete failure to control expenditure some Ministers jobs will go too!! And you will be first on the list!
Maybe by not employing over-paid top civil servants into jobs that really aren’t necessary then maybe it won’t be necessary to get rid of jobs of people who really do need a wage each week to keep their family going!
Report abuse
Mick #19
My heart bleeds for the poor teachers who are only being asked to do the job they agreed to do when they accepted the posts. Or is the ploy of saying anything to get the job, once in become as disruptive as possible to do less work, considered OK in the world of teaching ?
Frank N Stein, comments #1 may seem extreme, but he is only talking about the cowardly element of those professions who do not care how much they hurt the rest of the community so long as their, (lets be honest here )well paid with pretty good conditions jobs get even more cushier.
Boris #8
Rock on Boris you have it spot on
Report abuse
Let’s all be friends. Life was much nicer when everyone was arguing about J Cats. Peace.
Report abuse
frank n stein,
do you actually know what you’re talking about….
can you people do some research before slating the people who will break their backs, some literally for the cause, whilst continuously dumped on, even when the times were rosy!! yes a states worker had a good job, past tense. these people are dedicated and want to do their job well. but if hands get tied what then, if it becomes untenable to do the job well then what, do we lie down and accept it, deliver a substandard service?
no they don’t, they try and try to get it sorted but the ignorance of the people they serve only undermines further what they are trying to achieve and that’s a better service for the people of jersey, yes that’s you, yes that’s me, the teachers, the firefighters, we ALL live in this island, we pay our taxes and are entitled to an opinion.
“get another job if you don’t like it” i’m not quite sure if you really understand that statement yourself, on one hand your saying in this time of hardship there are not jobs, and on the other you say to quit. well i hope the people educating my kids have a better attitude that that.
“the unemployed will do the job” whilst i am sure there are guys out there who can fill some posts do you REALLY believe that?!?!
And before you start ripping into people about the pay, this magical 2% you really need to do some research to actually see what is going on.
it’s not about pay, the pay award of 2% was laced with add-ons and conditions that would be totally unacceptable to the private sector so why should the states workers accept them? contrary to popular belief, states workers pay taxes also, so no, you don’t “own us”
have your opinion, by all means, but educate yourself to the facts first, if not be ignorant and go back to your donuts
Report abuse
frank,
ps,
i’d love to go to disneyland with the kids, but can’t afford it as i’ve been hit with an under inflation pay “rise” for the 8th time in 9 years….
how was your bonus when it was all rosy…
Report abuse
I would say that yes, wherever you live, the Managers are plenty, the front-line staff are short of workers…who costs more to employ? Senior Managers, of course! You are saving nothing to axe or even freeze front-line staff…
I feel the Fire service and others being offered 2% should be happy as others may not be as lucky, some have taken a cut to sustain their jobs!
But everyone, it’s the Fat Bankers who got the world in this mess in the first place! Politicians are still allowing them fat bonuses for making these mistakes!!
Report abuse
Yet again false words from our leaders- 2 years after the recession started and despite several warnings from not just the private sector but also the general public, they are finally taking action.
Cuts should be across the states depts from top to bottom and that includes arranging for some of them eg the teachers , to start self funding their pensions like most of us already do!
Report abuse
How has this happened when for years they have been ranting on that our finances are in good shape and the rainy day fund was fairly protected.
It possibly has something to do with bad management and lack of comprehension of competition… Loss of approx £8m on not hedging GBP against the EUR for the incinerator then GBP7m for the airport ice cream cone! I dont think it would have cost that much to build elsewhere…
Sent Ozouf to the naughty step!
Report abuse
I don’t think any submission on this site will make one iota of difference to the Ministers’ decision making. One really salient point however is, the States should have had contingency plans in place to cope with the issues faced today.
When I lived on the island they used to speak of a, ‘Rainy day fund’. Well it appears to be raining cats and dogs now and the forecast should have appeared on the so called experts radar years ago.
I can recall serveal years ago the news reported that many people were heavily in debt and weren’t paying back their loans. Why when the writing was on the wall then, didn’t the states monitor the budgets of all States Departments more closely?
Why are budget holders not rewarded for keeping within budget? I recall that when I worked for the States that we were told if you don’t spend all the money in your budget, you will get less in the following finacial year.
No wonder the Island’s finances are in the doldrums today – no matter what propaganda is given out that the Island is the No.1 Finance Centre.
Yes there will have to be job losses and of course it is sad that many people will suffer. The point is the impact could have been reduced if the States and senior managers in States Departments had exercised better control over their finances. If there are to be cut backs, then let’s hope that consideration will be given to cutting back on the fat cats’ salaries, of those who contributed to this mega faux pas.
Report abuse
25 Jimmy Hoffer – it’s not about pay, the pay award of 2% was laced with add-ons and conditions that would be totally unacceptable to the private sector so why should the states workers accept them.
Yeh we keep hearing it’s not about the money so why wont they accept that they are not getting a pay rise for last year.As for totally unacceptable in the private sector. Let me give you a wake up call my privelaged public sector friend. You accept or leave in the private sector, you don’t whinge on about an above inflation pay rise in a market where everyone else got nowt and will likel;y get it again next year.
I can only summise that you have never had a proper job.
How many fires are there in Jersey? do these people put out fires every day? or do they drink coffee, watch tv, sleep whilst being available to do the job.
Stop whingeing and take the money or get out and find out what work really is.
Report abuse
There is much misunderstanding and media hype. Public finances are in great shape, the so-called defecit is well and truly covered, the States are just using it as a convenient excuse to squeeze the workforce.
My post from ‘No backing down over pay’
As with all Public Sector pay rises they are a year in arrears so it was frozen prematurely. The States Employment Board has (presumably) realised that it messed-up and the 2% deal equates to a 1% rise (because the pay date has shifted 6 months) so the States don’t have to loose face. They are actually saying we won’t give you a 1% rise for last year but we will give you a 2% rise for the last 6 months of that year.
The issue is whether or not it is wise to accept the change of pay date with the probability of a consequentially unfavourable cost-of-living figure thereafter, and also; whether or not the workforce is willing to accept an assault on their terms & conditions.
Report abuse
bye bye good times
Report abuse
This isn’t about pay, from what I have heard, it is about conditions. Maybe some people are happy for not only their wages to be going south but also their pensions and conditions as well? If this is the case workers could all well be earning peanuts in real terms if this depression doesn’t lift soon.
“Stop whingeing and take the money or get out and find out what work really is.”
Everyone has a right to maintain their standard of living, no one should be pushed backwards.
In my opinion if at the end of the day things are so, so, so bad then the best way to sort this out would be to take some from those with the most, as they will feel the pinch the least, not take from what little the least have in the first place.
“How many fires are there in Jersey? do these people put out fires every day? or do they drink coffee, watch tv, sleep whilst being available to do the job.”
I would prefer none myself but it is like Russian Roulette you don’t know what will happen next. Because of this randomness the fire fighters need to be as ready as possible to attend when required.
I would imagine even those in the private sector, still have the odd coffee or tea at their place of work. Maybe we should outlaw this as well as it is taking away from profitability? What about toilet breaks shouldn’t they be taken out of working hours?
As far as I am concerned as long as someone is doing their job to the best of their ability, then having refreshments at work is not a crime, and neither is sleeping on the job, if it makes people more alert for when they need to attend an emergency. I would say on health and safety grounds it is a must wouldn’t you?
I wonder if people making these comments would be happy if a very tired fireman turned up to rescue them from a fire and made a mistake that cost them their lives or left them seriously injured, because they hadn’t been sleeping on the job? From what I have been reading I’m sure they wouldn’t mind!
Anyway they don’t just attend fires, they do all sorts of other things for a greatful public and don’t charge them for it.
Maybe as some suggest much of their work could be outsourced but if it was the case the user would be paying for all this. Fancy paying to have your house fire put out? I think a lot of people would be “put out” by this don’t you?
By the way I don’t work for the fire service but I do recognise what an important job they do and also understand why they do things a certain way.
Report abuse
Adrain
I respect your argument but I think we may be missing the point a little; we are still in the middle of an economic crisis and in Jersey we have seen many private sector jobs going because of this.
What irks me is that the public sector employees appear to beieve that they should remain unaffected by the crisis and this is not acceptable.
As a private sector finance professional I am not prepared to see my tax bill rise and income fall without some sort of recipricol sacrifice from States employeees no matter how low or high or vital.
to expect this is the real unfareness not a lower pay rise than expected.
Report abuse
“There is much misunderstanding and media hype. Public finances are in great shape, the so-called defecit is well and truly covered, the States are just using it as a convenient excuse to squeeze the workforce.
My post from ‘No backing down over pay’”
Public finances are in a dreadful mess. We are running a deficit of around %30 – 60M which we are filling in with the stabilisation fund.After that we will run into deficit unless we raise GST by around 6% or make cuts of around 10% in the budget or a combination of both.
Another possibility would be to introduce a Capital Gains Tax on property apart from your main residence, profits from dealing in shares, etc.
Whatever happens there will be hard choices, something that the States find very hard to make.
Report abuse
Boris and others should bear in mind that fire-fighters like everyone else, pay tax.
They also have to pay enhanved levels of Social security to gain their pension.
The have no choice but to retire at 55 which is a nightmare for many with kids in higher education
and they retire early because it is a known fact that working shift work in the long term reduces life expectency.
Report abuse
oh I almost forgot… would Boris and others like to be carried down a ladder by a 60 year old???
Report abuse
Mass Suicide is the only answer we could start with the old and infirmed and end with the new born leave the rich and the finance industry states members and we could save 0ne hundred million a year
Report abuse
HA HA HA…. Boris/Frank and PG Tips……….. Cry me a river! Jealous much!!! I wish you lot worked for the treasury, because geniuses like you would certainly sort out Jersey’s financial problems in no time, HA. What’s even funnier, is all you very earnest & self righteous posters actually seem to believe what you think and post on here makes any difference what so ever, talk about self deluded ! Who cares what you (or i) think?
By the way, for all you lot shouting “SACK EM ALL” personally, i hope they DO go down the path of compulsory redundancies, because i just found out what my package would be and i gotta say, it would make a baboon’s behind blush.
Smile things can only get better!………. Well for me that is, the private sector sounds like its in real trouble!!! What started these problems? I have not heard anything about it until now!!!………… But seriously though, good luck to you lot in the private sector, you would HATE it over here in Disney Land, Mickey and Donald say HI!
Anyway, enough joshing, i’m off on my annual months cruise round the caribean, it will only leave me with 2 months holiday for the rest of the year, but sometimes you have to treat yourself, am i right or am i right!
Hugs and Kisses. XXX
Report abuse
Boris et al…..
What are your thoughts of the nurses in this situation? Do they sit around drinking coffee all day?
Would you like to be looked after by a over worked, tired and under appreciated nurse??? Do they get the option to retire at 55 because “shift work reduces life expectancy”????
Report abuse
I am in an industry (not finance !) where civil servants are baulking millions of pounds a year of sustainable productions for export.
The cost of those civil servants probably matches the value of the current industry.
Do we want them? NO
When do we want them to go? NOW
It will also free up Howard Davis Farm for holiday lets.
Report abuse
Baz, it’s medication time!!! But enjoy the cruise!
Report abuse
36 Pip Clement:
Firstly, the States have been adding to the stabilisation fund, that is a large expense they can manage without for the time being. You don’t tend to add to your savings when you’re spending them. The point of having savings is to tide you over for when you need them. £40m was taken out last year but £60m was put back in.
This is the report that created most of the misunderstanding and subsequent hysteria:
STATES’ EXPENDITURE FORECASTS. FURTHER EVIDENCE SUBMITTED BY THE COMPTROLLER & AUDITOR GENERAL
TO THE FINANCE SUB-PANEL OF THE CORPORATE SERVICES SCRUTINY PANEL. FEBRUARY 2010.
The hefty GST increases are based on the idea that they would be the only measure taken to make-up the shortfall. It is little surprise the public have reacted in such a way.
The Structural deficit is a nonsense for our government to be discussing in isolation, it should be discussing a cyclically-adjusted deficit. We have recently heard that the first two years will be paid for out of the reserves. This implies that the island hasn’t got the money to pay for a 3rd. Nonsense, it has created a lot of unnecessary worry for a lot of people. We have the savings but need to look at the bigger picture, not just the next few years and consider the funds we have.
Copied from the Original States proposition, note that the cyclical nature of deficits is not a new concept: Establishment of a Stabilisation Fund and policy for Strategic Reserve
It is important to recognise that the SR (Strategic reserve)would not be used to meet any revenue shortfall brought about by a cyclical downturn (that is the role of the Stabilisation Fund). Also that it would not simply be used to meet any form of structural decline – it would have to be significant in nature to the extent that it will manifest itself in a significant fall in States revenue/employment/living standards in the Island.
It is recommended that the guiding principles for the SR under the new fiscal framework are –
1. The overall aim of the SR is to provide the Island with some insulation from an external shock such as severe structural decline (such as the collapse of a major Island industry) or a major natural disaster.
http://www.statesassembly.je/documents/propositions/223-48242-24102006.htm
What you and probably most others have failed to realise is that we still have a pot of money which is quite separate from the Stabilisation fund.
Report abuse
baz there will soon be a top job going, do you think Mickey would be interested in it? I would prefer him to the other candidate myself.
Pig Iron Blues that the trouble with the Ministry of Stupidity it has too many followers and most seem to appear on here at one stage or another!
Aukward it is good to see there is at least one person besides me not working in finance. You and me could be seen as a new trend setters soon by the looks of things.
Perspicuous make sure you don’t tell the states or it will be spent before you can say “GST up to 12%.”
Report abuse
It makes me so frustrated reading about the cuts the states have to make. Not because I don’t understand it but because a lot of the deficit is due to poor management; no strategic planning and no vision.
Managers are appointed without regard to their experience or ability to take departments forward. States Members aren’t themselves qualified most of the time to make balanced decisions.
When cuts are needed in expenditure don’t just look at cutting services. A good management team can improve quality and reduce cost at the same time in every singe sector from road sweepers to Executive officers.
Staff should be charged with reducing costs themselves and being given the choice, quite literraly of losing a colleague in their workforce or reducing costs and waste and improving quality. Waste reduction and quality improvement run side by side if you know what you’re doing. Sack your Chief Officers; sack your Grade 15, 14, 13 and 12′s and start again. Don’t make your workers redundant as they are the ones with the knowledge on how to reduce your waste and increase quality. But hey, our states mambers don’t want to know about lean culture; they’ll be retired on their increased salaries by the time the money runs out.
Report abuse
Frank N Stein et al;
Firefighters down’t just fight fires. They protect, help, support and assist every other emergency service. They might attend a suicide; they might deal with a flood; they may break the door down to save your granny who has collapsed behind a door. They are courageous people who work 42 hour shifts for as little as £27k per year all in (about £1800 take home per month).
Get your facts right before you comment.
They aren’t just wanting more pay its their conditions and job roles they want to have clarified and resolved.
People like you deserve to feel the heat of a fire and know the fear; maybe then you would understand in some way how wrong your words are.
Jersey firefighters deserve our support.
Report abuse
I really do not like to hash things over and over again but here goes.
1) Phillip Ozouf is looking at 10% cuts in the budget, that is roughly £50 – 60M over three years. This will result in the loss of staff, cuts in services or charges.
2) There will be a review looking at squeezing tax allowances more, increasing GST, etc.
These are hard choices and will not go down well with the electors and as such I take them as indications that the island is in a seriously bad position.
Cuts in jobs and services will not win any friends among the voters particularly in a recession with unemployment already mounting.
Posters like Perspicuous can say what they like. The simple fact is that Senator Phillip Ozouf, who is in charge of the island’s finances, is running round frantically trying to round up the cash to fill a yawning structural deficit that will not go away when the recession ends.
Report abuse
Pip luckily for the CoM there are people like J.Lamborrari standing full square behind them.
However it looks like crash and burn to me.
GST going up is a dead cert to me. Its the only way to plug the gap which won’t affect those with the most influence IMHO. I also expect the black hole to get even worse than anticipated then it will be brown pants time IMHO.
I think it will be a case of I told you so.
IMHO the last time Jersey faced as serious a situation was in 1939, and we know what happened then. I believe if this is the case it is pretty obvious that those in charge wouldn’t want to let the cat out of the bag until the last possible minute.
Report abuse
Pip, you said it.
1, Phillip Ozouf is looking at cuts or tax hikes to address a structural deficit we may never have. A structural deficit is when you have more money going out than you have coming in – it doesn’t mean you have not got any money saved.
2, The review will be looking at taxes which needn’t necessarily be increased because we have a substantial strategic reserve.
Please don’t say it is raining cats ‘n’ dogs in one breath and tell us that it isn’t raining in the next. You said “public finances are in a dreadful mess”, when I point out that there is a forgotten pot of money somehow it doesn’t count. What are the funds for?
You and I are not in a position to say whether or not it will go away after the recession ends unless we have access to reliable cyclically-adjusted figures. Odd that these havn’t been released, don’t you think?
You’re entitled to your point of view as much as the next person but you’re trying to demolish my argument with a toffee hammer – you have no facts.
One moment we are facing a deficit of £170M, the next it is £50 – 60M. If we are looking at a scenario this bleak I’d like to see a more scientific approach – nobody has been objective about these forecasts.
Report abuse
‘Pip luckily for the CoM there are people like J.Lamborrari standing full square behind them.’
I think a lot of the establishment cheerleaders are seeing their credibility drain away.
The political future of the island lies in the hands of a younger liberal majority.
Even the finance industry is starting to doubt the current ruling majority of right wing OAP’s!
Report abuse
How can Sen. Ozouf. ( The wizard od Oz ) announce the day before the COM meet that. there will be redundancies in the public sector. Plus VDR’s, the day before he meeets with the COM’s. This shows how much of a one mane state this has become. This Sen. Should be forever be assocciated with poverty and helping the super rich become filthy wealthy. He lives in a parraell universe with no comsepsion at all of what it is like to have the choice between having to turn off your light or put on your heating.
Report abuse
@ Adrian #49
“Pip luckily for the CoM there are people like J.Lamborrari standing full square behind them…”
People like me how Adrian?
It sounds like you’re implying I support the CoM on this issue; but seeing as how I haven’t commented I can only assume you’re either making a mistake and you mean to use somebody else’s name, or you’re making things up again, or you’re just getting confused, or perhaps you’re trying to misquote and spin again???
Report abuse
Funny that the money has been found to redecorate three elaborate rooms which are occupied by the crown officers.
Report abuse
There is not a ‘forgotten pot of money’ at all.
There is the Stabilisation Fund which is currently being spent to cover the deficits in the next year or two.
Phillip Ozouf is looking at savings or tax increases to balance the books after that.
There is the Strategic Reserve or Rainy Day Fund but under the rules for its use it could not be applied to funding short term deficits like you propose.
The exact scale of the deficits facing the island in the future is very hard to guess at.
Economics is not an exact science, increased economic activity could substantially raise tax revenue and close quite a bit of the gap, on the other hard if we move into a prolonged recession then the gap could yawn wider.
Read the Financial Times and you will quickly find out that the UK Treasury mandarins with some of the smartest economists in the world and their mulitimillion pound computers have real problems predicting the UK economy.
By comparison Jersey economics is worked out on the back of an envelope!
Report abuse
@ Pip Clement #51
“…establishment cheerleaders… …younger liberal majority…”
Pip Clement you appear to be some sort of agreement with Adrian, that I’m an ‘establishment cheerleader’, and seemingly therefore not part of the ‘liberal majority’
Fact is Adrian’s wrong, often, and has a tendency to misquote and spin, so I’d be weary of just getting swept up in his bluster. By all means come to your own opinion of me, but explain your reasons, because if you spoke to anybody who knows me they’d tell you I’m about as liberal and fair as they come, and certainly I’m no ‘establishment cheerleader’ (I don’t even agree that there is this mythical ‘establishment party’ that often gets talked about.
Report abuse
‘By all means come to your own opinion of me, but explain your reasons, because if you spoke to anybody who knows me they’d tell you I’m about as liberal and fair as they come, and certainly I’m no ‘establishment cheerleader’ (I don’t even agree that there is this mythical ‘establishment party’ that often gets talked about.’
My apologies if you feel that I have unfairly included you in the CoM fan club.
I will keep an eye out for your posts in future.
I often disagree with Adrian and there is no agreement between us.
There is not an establishment party as such but there is a tendency to sing from the same hymn sheet. Look where the CoM and the Constables vote 90% of the time and I think you will find that it constitutes a fairly effective working majority!
Report abuse
Pip,
Fact is that we have money coming out of our ears. Sure, we have our challenges but it is far from accurate stating ‘public finances are in a dreadful mess’.
Read the foregoing messages; people in general are under the impression that Jersey will be broke within two years – there seems to be a desire on the part of our government to cultivate that climate of fear in support of service cuts.
What we are not being told is that taxes will increase and services will be cut to avoid using some of our savings.
Report abuse
@ Pip Clement #57
“…Look where the CoM and the Constables vote 90% of the time and I think you will find that it constitutes a fairly effective working majority!…”
But isn’t that just a consequence of democracy? People vote in like minded people, it’s natural therefore that this like-mindedness will be evident in their voting records.
If people want the votes to go more in favour of people like Sen Syvret (just as an example of somebody considered outside ‘the establishment’, by people who believe in it) then they need to vote more people like him into office… (obviously not too many or the States would never have a quorum!)
Report abuse
“It sounds like you’re implying I support the CoM on this issue…”
can the horse’s mouth confirm or deny this then? Can it also say whether it voted for Ozouf, MacLean or Le Marquand at the last Senatorial elections?
Would a liberal vote for these sorts do you think?
Let us see your true colours if you dare!
Report abuse
“But isn’t that just a consequence of democracy?”
Is a consequence of democracy nearly 10% unelected members IYHO? Or is this too contentious a question for you to answer?
Pip “There is not an establishment party”
I disagree as I believe there is. Too many of the same people vote identically most of the time for there not to be IMHO. I think it comes to something when it takes a ringbinder to break the mould.
No disrespect to you Pip. I don’t want a certain someone thinking I only have a different view point from them or else they might get paranoid.
Report abuse
Where is this so called rainy day fund…? what proof is there of it’s existence….the signs read that we are actually skint…if not where is the dosh…..?
Report abuse
I didn’t vote for Philip Ozouf in the last election, because I had long term vision about him, and now the chickens are coming home to roost, and my predictions were right, hmm.. told you so comes to mind!….
Report abuse
I didn’t vote for the following Ozouf, MacLean, Le Marquand etc. So any of their blunders that they may make are not my responsibility I pass this responsibility on to those who did.
Did the liberal person vote for any of these I wonder? I believe myself all three would stand as Tory candidates in the UK. How can one reconcile this with being a liberal I ask? Can someone explain this to me?
I’m still waiting on confirmation that some people view a place that has nearly 10% of its government assembly non elected actually is a proper democracy in their personal opinion(s). In mine it isn’t. It would be nice to know whether they concur or differ in their opinions.
Report abuse
First public sector post to go – can I nominate Bill Ogley?
Report abuse
Truthseeker 62
Please see my previous messages on this thread.
Report abuse