Hundreds would love these benefits and perks
Tuesday 23rd March 2010, 3:00PM GMT.
From Dick Shenton.
A WEEK ago I read a long letter written by Craig Channing from Fire Service Headquarters that made me wonder if we had a new chief officer.
At the time I wondered if this was a prelude to militancy from the fire fighters who wanted to flex their muscles. I have had a lifetime of work experiences dealing with industrial actions and been sympathetic, at times, to some of the demands.
In this particular case we are dealing with a privileged group of workers who enjoy conditions of service far more favourable than other sections of the community.
Their pay and entitlements should be published in your newspaper – including all the ‘perks’. There are hundreds of young Jerseymen who would love to be given a chance to enjoy the life of a firefighter and the benefits they receive.
Mr Channing does not seem to realise that a recession has hit Jersey and we are all suffering. Pensioners, with or without savings, are facing cost increases that effect their daily lives. If the States give in to the demands of a few they will be penalising the majority. I don’t always agree with Senators Le Sueur and Ozouf, but in this case I hope that they stick to their guns.
There must be many, like myself, who abhor the greed and selfishness of a vocal minority who would seek to raise taxes to the detriment of the majority.
Perhaps the time has come for this silent majority to assert themselves and form an association to guard our money wisely and oppose those who advocate irresponsible polices. I would be grateful for readers’ comments.
Finally, as a boy living in Albert Street I used to pass a church on the corner of Great Union road that had a wayside pulpit. I have always remembered one particular message which stated: ‘Those that grumble the most are often the best treated’. Over to you, Mr Channing.
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Gosh, I never thought I would agree with Dick Shenton but this is absolutely spot on!
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Well said Dick Shenton,couldn’t have siad it better myself.
Greed never wins.
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Where does GST fit into the picture then Dick? This is crippling the least well off whilst those at the other end don’t bat an eyelid at it IMHO.
How can this be right in the 21st century?
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whatever PERKS firefighters get,don’t they also risk their lives too!!
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I am replying to your article posted today.As you have stated you have had a lifetime of experience with industrial disputes. This is greater than mine as i only have 20 years of UK trade union experience, so hopefully you may be able to enlighten me;
1. When was the last time you actually spoke to the firefighters to find out their possible concerns?
2.When was the last time the Fire Service in Jersey took industrial action ?
If the later is never, I presume this dispute stems from long running problems that have never been addressed (at a time before the recession hit Jersey),which perhaps could have been resolved with a little communcation.
I feel the negative adjectives you use towatrd firefighters is non constructive and surprises me from someone of your standing. This concerns me if the likes of Mr Channing and his colleagues have to raise their concerns and issues with minds that have already been made up and are unable to open up for discussion.
We are all suffering the effects of the current financial situation, but please, when GST does go up will Mr Channing get the blame for that one???
Finally, I also have a message I remember from my youth “the future is unwritten know your rights”.
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Ah the ‘political letter’, wondered how long it would take.
A ‘political letter’ to those who don’t know is a letter that is not really aimed at anyone, is wide ranging, can be read in several different ways, blames everyone and no one and basically allows the scribe to look good in anyones eyes…bit like a weather forecast – Sunshine with the possibilty of some rain with light to moderate, sometimes gusting winds with early morning mist and the treat of snow in high areas drifting to low lying ground – everything covered……………..simples!
Running through the letter (briefly commenting on)….
The 1st paragraph is quite true, why?, well because every day we seem to have a new chief officer within the states system (the latest being treasury) how much for a 9 month contract? Bet we won’t have that published (seeing that the scribe seems to want everything published, lets start at home then shall we).
3rd paragraph then hits the community. ‘Better perks than other sections’ Clever, lets not go down the civil service route then.
4th paragraph. I don’t believe (unless the scribe can supply this) that young Jerseymen (which should read Jersey persons!! Very discrimatory, as women are also allowed to apply,) have ever been stopped from applying for a vacancy within the service.
6th paragraph. Are we still talking about the FRS or is the the States? Can’t make my mind up, after all don’t believe the SJFRS can raise taxes(?).
Finally the Terms and Conditions, Pay and apprent ‘perks’ within the SJFRS should be avaliable to anyone who applies for a vacancy (unless I’m mistaken, bit like every job anyone applies for really, do you not think?).
That’ll be the published bit then……uuummmm…….next.
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” There are hundreds of young Jerseymen who would love to be given a chance to enjoy the life of a firefighter and the benefits they receive.”
Quite right. People are queuing up to get into the fire service. This gives us the opportunity to lower the value of their pay package and erode their precious “terms and conditions”.
We will be able to tell when we are getting best value out of them when they start leaving. When they do, no matter – there is always someone to take their place.
Love it Dick. You The Man.
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Greed’s been doing pretty well for the last few decades, Dick. Can’t say that your abhorrance has been particularly noticeable during that time.
Weren’t you the working man’s champion years ago?
Now it seems that you’re with the well fed well heeled “silent majority” who like amassing savings and property but don’t like dipping into the pocket for public services!
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Like Father – Like Son. first young Mr Shenton replies to one of Mr channings letters after trying to complain to the Chief Officer of the states about an Associations free right to speak out over ministerial opression, then gets his Dad to do it as well.
All firefighters terms and conditions of service are available to anyone who applies for a position there, so they are freely available.
people who were once high ranking states officials should be very careful of slating others with issues over so called PERKS.
thought i would throw a proverb of my own in here
never judge a person unitl you have walked in their shoes.
you have no idea of a modern day service, but i am sure even if they do have fair terms and conditions of service – they see things that you or i never wish to see and i say let them have them.
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well done dick, you’ve never had a perk in your career did you???
well i’m really upset that all the perks the firefighters receive, i mean they don’t do anything do they, just sit around and whine that our once rolls royce services are now rubbish, i mean, they don’t do anything at all do they…. sea rescue, cliff rescue, road traffic incidents, animal rescues, community fire safety visits… (hmm, sounds like a lot to me).
don’t shift workers who miss out on birthdays, christmas, weekends, actually missing out on seeing there families deserve a perk or two, whatever the “perks” you speak about, dick, they must be good??!!??!!??
we only have 2 ambulances on station of a night time, our police/prison/fire are understaffed and facing extensive cost and safety critical staff cuts, and these greedy firefighters have the tenacity to actually say something about it???
well how ever dare they, naughty firefighters, naughty naughty teachers for that matter, i mean, surely we, the people of jersey should bend over, throw our coats into the puddles so Terry Le Sueur and his band of overpaid merry men do not get their feet wet in the waters of discontent that surround our sinking island, no no, we must not speak out, just wait until something tragically avoidable happens…
until then, enjoy your nice rosy pension mr shenton, i’d be happy to take a paycut just to listen to your drivel!
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When was the last time Mr Shenton that you had to go to a suicide and witness things that …”100′s of young Jerseymen…” would not in fact COULD not contemplate as the firefighters do? When was the last time you can recall pulling a dying child from a smoke riddled house and tried to give the kiss of life?
When you have spent a shift with a crew from the fire staion and worked alongside them and seen what they see, that coinsidencly, the public are not aware of as that is the high calibre of job that they do, can you sudjest that PERKS as you call them are not warranted.
I do believe that many of our States members enjoyed a £1,000.00 payrise themselves last year before halting pay for everyone else this year , and shall I mention the free lunches and telephone bills, travel expenses, stationary costs etc, I think not.
These boys do an excellent job and its a disgrace that the Shenton’s have to do a “Son to Daddy” tag like game.
At times like this I am sorry to be local.
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I love the fact that we live in a world with the freedom to make comment on most things – I believe it’s right – it’s just the total hypocrisy I can’t stand – Is Mr Shenton the only Politician to never take advantage of the many perks he could have received as Senator for the States? I doubt it – many of us have long memories sir – was it not you that held the island to ransom over shipping issues? something to do with the cranes not willing to off load cargo if I remember rightly – and lets not get started on the growth of Securicor within the Island, especially all States departments that had their security taken care of by that company – Fire alarm and protective equipment included – get real sir, I don’t see you as a retired individual suffering financially while the people you are so quick to remind everyone you supported – yes, the working man – suffer under pay cuts and rental increases – people that I do believe the Fire Service Association have stood by and rallied with for their better pay and conditions also – we are working class too – Yes, it has been a long time hasn’t it Mr Shenton? Time to drop it and leave it to your boy me thinks – he’s got a beef on everyone as it is.
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One more thing Mr Shenton – the salariies and Terms and Conditions (Perks)of all states personnel are accessible to all on the internet – they’re no secret – I wonder if you would be willing to make public any perks you acquired during your time as a politician.
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It seems nothing has changed.
The same who caused work to rule strikes and unrest years ago.
Not forgetting a Tesco supermarket was all but signed and sealed where grande marche is now was stopped by one man some 25-30 years ago
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@ bella #14
“…Not forgetting a Tesco supermarket was all but signed and sealed where grande marche is now was stopped by one man some 25-30 years ago…”
Really? are you saying it was Shenton who stopped this? any evidence of this bella.
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The Shenton boys do seem to like pontificating and taking the moral high ground but I do think that Shenton Jnr has a bloody nerve – like a petulent child, complaining through official channels because Bob Hill tries to do things openly and with honesty.
Contrast with Shenton who covertly records his friend and colleague – keeps the recording until it’s usefull – the man has no integrity; and now we have old dad – the man who secured the deal which now allows police officers to earn 20,000 p/a more then their collegues in other emergency services.
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Bella, you are quite correct, a Tesco supermarket was a good as installed in Jersey only one man prevented this, a certain Mr. Shenton, it is in the archives, I thought everyone knew that, during that dark period of Jersey`s political history, what Mr. Shenton said was as good as law, fortunately, his son does not possess that intimidating presence.
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‘There must be many, like myself, who abhor the greed and selfishness of a vocal minority who would seek to raise taxes to the detriment of the majority.’
Is he talking about the Council of Ministers here?
Mick
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As usual this thread has come off subject and is being used as an excuse to bash a politician, no surprise there.
Persnally it is beside the point what benefits the fire fighters get, they are paid and paid well to do a job which they chose to do. Yes; they do risk their lives but I am pretty sure that wasn’t a surprise to them!
If as a result of their actions ONE SINGLE person is harmed in any way they should face court the same as any criminal would. This is the same as somebody being harmed as a result of a soldier abandonning their post who would then face a court marshall.
Man up or get a new cushy office job! I hear that insurance sales are having a good turn with the increased risk that your house may burn down!?
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All this fireman risk their lives business. According to the BBC, around 1 fireman dies in the UK per year: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7076583.stm
I suspect that this makes it a pretty safe job: certainly much safer than a fisherman, for example. Let’s keep it real: the biggest danger most fireman face is probably eating too many doughnuts while looking forward to early retirement.
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In response to GMR’s comment, the boys have NEVER said they would go on an all out strike and risk even ONE SINGLE life. Work to rule is completely different from a strike! They are in the business of saving lives, hence the countless amounts of campaigns and FREE home fire safety visits they do for the public every year.
You are absolutely correct they do choose to do this job and they do all know that one day they may go into a fire and not come back out- lets all hope that that one fire they may not make it out safely from is not a fire in which they have had to save your life, as I do not understand why they should give their lives to enable people to have the chance of having a “cushy office job” and becoming an “insurance salesperson”.
The Firefighters will ALWAYS answer AND attend calls no matter what time of day OR night it is…can’t see many of those people working in a cushy office being able to say the same! thing…can you ?????
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Doughnuts?! Wrong job Donald that is allegedly police offices…
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donald how come fishermen don’t get paid more than firemen then?
Also would you fancy tidying up after a suicide, which I’m sure you would agree occurs more than one a year over here?
Anyway as people seem to have got the wrong end of the stick over all this. The firemen are not going on strike and their grievences are over conditions and pensions so I am led to believe. Does this change anyone’s opinion now?
If not then would you be happy to have your pension cut and your condtions cut at your place of work?
What would you think of someone who promised you something and failed to honour that promise? It appears from some comments on here some think this is fine and dandy as long as it isn’t them who get the short straw.
GMR “Man up or get a new cushy office job!”
Are we talking finance here?
By the way Bob Hill has my full backing, unlike certain others I could mention.
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donald, rather than believing the press like most people seem to be doing, do some proper research and you will see that firefighter deaths and serious injuries are on the increase. This is mainly due to severe cost cutting, resulting in lack of proper training, reduced manpower and so on, exactly the reason for the local guys, saying enough is enough.In the UK, several senior officers have been arrested on possible manslaughter charges, because of the death of four firemen last year in a big fire. By the way, danish pastries are the norm now, if you’re passing!
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GMR, i know that whatever action is taken, nobody will be put at risk. Artistic licence from the press sometimes.
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Not quite the full backing you were expecting Dick?
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I totally with the Union demand that there workers should be allowed to negotiate for the best deal. I feel even more strongly that our Government should have the right to negotiate the best deal for us the taxpayer. With over a thousand unemployed there are many who would gratefully accept a fireman’s job for the going rate – or is the argument only one sided in that this works in the interests of the Union only.
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Dick’s son Ben works in an industry where fund managers still take their AMC (annual management charge) whether the fund makes a profit or a loss so they really have no room to talk and when we see Dick running into a burning building when everyone else is running out perhaps we might just start to take a little notice from the man whose son was the instant health expert djuring the flu outbreak and whose father now knows less about firefighting than Joan of Arc!
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Sanity if slavery were introduced we wouldn’t have to bother with negotiating at all would we?
It wouldn’t surprise me if I could get a few thousand in from Chad on £1 per, if people would be so kind as to feed them.
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Is it just me, or is the overall literacy of some people that post on here absolutely appalling ?
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“on £1 per,”
I left it like this so people can put in what they think it should be, i.e. hour, day, month, year.
It has been alleged that some have done rather well out of Jersey.
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Adrian – That is not my point at all. I actually share your belief that we should have a fairer society and that workers unions have contributed towards that goal. But in this instance we have a group of workers using their collective “mussel” in demanding a far higher share of the collective “pot” at a time when so many are suffering pay restraints, unemployment and general hardship. Whilst it is true that these workers did not directly lead to the current problems [although society in general never bulked away from collecting the billions of additional tax revenues and other benefits such as cheap “sub prime” loans and mortgages for the poorer sections of society] nor did the pensioner, farm worker or even the average bank employee. Why then should these workers “demand” that monies should be forcibly taken from these groups through taxation to pay their already inflated salaries and guarantee their jobs.
In this respect the teachers and fireman’s unions are no better than the 19th century industrialist who used their position of power to cream off the wealth of society with no regard to rest of us.
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Sanity “no better than the 19th century industrialist who used their position of power to cream off the wealth of society with no regard to rest of us.”
Do you think its any different now? Because I don’t! I have read how much some allegedly are putting in the pot in relationship to what they earn.
However no problem about bringing in a regressive tax which will cripple the lower earners whilst the top end has an easy life IMHO.
As far as I am concerned 0-10 and other issues are pushing the island towards disaster. To be dependent on finance is plain daft. Just look at what it has done worldwide to the economy! Yet people still think it is a good a option and praise it!
If things continue as they are, and why shouldn’t they, with a disillusioned voter base, who won’t vote, and most of those who do bother to vote not having the intelligence of an average ground squirrel to see through the B.S. IMHO, what hope is there?
I am expecting the whole lot to implode. Work pensions won’t be honoured, state pensions will be hit, people will endure higher taxes and more of them, with an end to retirement, nearly all jobs minimum wage or there abouts, and losing one’s house to pay for care in old age, if you are lucky enough to struggle to pay for one in your working life. I ask what is the point of bothering if you are an average Joe?
As far as I am concerned society and service to self do not go together. It is therefore time for people to choose what they really want.
Sorry to be so downbeat but thats the way of things from where I’m looking. I doubt it is likely to be much better from most other places either, unless you are one of the select few that is IMHO.
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I would ask one question – why do the States Police salaries not be questioned – I for one would like to know exactly how much they get plus perks and while we are at it Mr Shenton can you please let the public know how much the States Members get and what perks they receive? States members are the worst out of all the categories they do nothing for the public and quite ahppily take a large proportion of tax payers money plus all the perks they get!!! Our island has never been in such a mess as it is since the States were paid!!! Why can we not go back to States members who were not paid and business men who could handle money – not like the squanderers that we have in politics now – and what experience do they have – none only for the fact that when they are out of the States they will never be able to earn the money they get now, that is if they can get another job!!! My support is with the Firefighters who do a decent job for little pay and no perks!!!
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Sanity, perhaps you should support the teachers, looks like you need them to help with your ‘mussels’!!!
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Agree 33 34.
The divide is getting bigger between haves and have-nots.
The police earn a fortune so I believe,and retire early with a gold plated pension and take another job.
Agree about states members,what have they ever done for us?
Always arguing and squabbling among themselves and if one disagrees with another he is soon sent to Coventry.
Great example they are setting to us mere mortals
If they carry on this way with a bit of luck they will implode.
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I ‘m surprised that most of you want to pay more tax to help the fire fighters. Then again, as many of you are incapable of constructive criticism and revert to childish insults perhaps most of you are not old enough to pay tax. These forums need parental controls.
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Progressive, maybe it’s banter. Anyway, it’s the massive cuts that concern the firefighters, which affects your safety, so maybe rather than having a dig at the firefighters, perhaps you should have a dig at the Le Sueur and Ozouf who are putting the public at a higher risk?
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I am so saddened by your appalling letter Dick and would suggest you “butt out.”Why your family,including son and daughter-in -law,feel they have to stir the pot,with constant letters to the JEP I do not know.
Your son failed miserably as H&SS minister and did a runner when the going got hot.
This is a privilege fire fighters do not have.Whatever the issue,employees have the right to negotiate via their unions ,their terms and conditions,let them get on with it,instead of doing the old boys act.!
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Fire fighters have good terms and conditions, here in Jersey they are not at that much risk, such a cushy job don’t you think Dick?
When you or any of us go to work, what is the worst thing that could happen to us that day? nasty phone call, FTSE lost a few points, upset client? A bit of lunch gone down the wrong way?
Or do you sit there, waiting for a call to say someone may die and its your skill, your fitness, your knowledge that can save them, save a family.
@Donald Pond, a safe job? Or just very good training. As a lawyer, what are your perks? Do actually put your life at risk to save others?
“In only 3 to 12 minutes, the heat from a house fire can reach over 1100°F. People die when the temperature is over 212°F.”
Why as a society do we think so little of those that stand fast and step forward to look after us at great risk to themselves?
I say give them their perks it is a small price to pay. They might spend most of their days getting cows out of swimming pools or other “fun
” stuff. But one day, they and other emergency services will be there for you, ready to respond to save lives. It really is that simple.
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Not many braver than Firemen certainly not the Police whom I believe earn more?
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“Why as a society do we think so little of those that stand fast and step forward to look after us at great risk to themselves?”
Nobody thinks so little about firefighters.
But taxpayers and people in the private sector have no respect for people looking to strike at this time.
If firefighters get more money it means more taxes, simple as that. The most flexible tax we have is GST. So there is your choice: you either support the firefighters and teachers and want an increase in GST, or you oppose their threats and want to keep GST at 3%. Because you can’t have increased public spending without increased taxation.
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“But taxpayers and people in the private sector have no respect for people looking to strike at this time.”
Do you think that would change if times got better, then, Donald?
I don’t, because I’ve never seen much evidence that either of those two groups ever gave a hoot about those less well paid than themselves.
Especially during the bubble when they were doing vey nicely thankyou and no doubt giving free advice to the masses to pull their socks up or fall by the wayside.
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donald “people looking to strike at this time.”
Who is looking to do this? Not the firemen nor the teachers. So who do you mean?
donald “The most flexible tax we have is GST.”
It is a regressive tax. Look up what regressive means in the OED and why it benefits the rich.
donald “Because you can’t have increased public spending without increased taxation.”
Yes you can if you tax big business more.
Yes you can if you tax some of the rich at a higher rate than at present.
Yes you can if you remove some top civil servants posts.
Yes you can if you reduce the states assembly.
Yes you can if you diversify the economy.
Also with more efficient use of tax payers money you can increase public services.
I think there are enough alternatives here don’t you?
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@Donald
Yesterday you told me that lawyers get paid sooooooo much because they have unlimited liability.Oh poor them. Now you say that according to BBC statistics that only one fireman dies per year. Please show me one lawyer in Jersey who honestly has been sued and lost his livelihood by making an HONEST mistake let alone put their lives at risk on a regular basis for the benefit of others. You are sympotamatic of those who refuse to get their hands dirty but love to quote statistics and belittle those who actually do something constructive for society. When was the last time that something you did actually changed someones life! Get off your soap box and go and do something constructive with your life. Oh and before you reply and quote that its blokes like you ( or your amazing lawyer partner!) who earn vast sums of money to keep this island running, we’ve heard it all before. I can take criticism from someone who actually gives back to society but I’m sorry your profession hides behind a veil of charity that is somewhat lacking in sincerity. Don’t tell me you became a lawyer to make society a better place. Please!
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Adrian,
One simple question: how would you diversify the economy in a way that brings money into the Island?
i.e. not the States subsidising something unprofitable. A new business that generates meaningful income. That’s your challenge.
Otherwise you may as well say “give every fireman a money tree so they are rich”.
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Just waiting for the politicians to spout “GST is going up – blame the greedy unions.”
Yes, blame the greedy unions, not the half-wit politicians who have squandered millions.
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“When was the last time that something you did actually changed someones life!”
My tax pays for at least 5 teachers or firemen. Plus the legal aid I support which costs six figures a year. So I would say every year when I sign my cheque to the Treasurer I change at least 5 people’s lives very directly by keeping them in a job.
What exactly do you do for society?
I didn’t become a lawyer to make society a better place. I did it because I thought it would be interesting (which was a mistake) and would pay a decent wage.
If you decided on a job that “puts something back into society” then be a grown up about it and thank me for funding your whimsy.
And Blame Game: “Yes, blame the greedy unions, not the half-wit politicians who have squandered millions. ”
Even better, why don’t we all accept responsibility and all try to work out how to make a better future? Everyone has to take the same medicine.
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Firemen don’t get paid for what they do, they get paid for what they might have to do.
Much of that the rest of us don’t have the bottle, strength or stomach for.
Putting pay and conditions to one side, it is rediculous to suggest that they have a cushy number.
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Frosty Reception#49
“Much of that the rest of us don’t have the bottle, strength or stomach for”
THEN WHY THE HELL IS THERE A WAITING LIST FOR THIS GOD AWFUL JOB ?
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I can still remember his dockers singing “hey big spender” when they used to see Mr S going into work. Our fire men do a fantastic job, at least they turn up for work unlike most of the states members who are either on holiday or at a meeting on states sitting days its a joke
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Donald Pond (48) – if you are earning enough to be paying over £100k per year in tax fair play. As for those who choose a job to put something back into society – without those people who is going to educate? who is going to look after you when you are sick? who is going to be willing to put their lives at risk to save yours and your family (saving you from your sinking yacht not just fire fighting)? Do you not also think that there are those who choose these jobs because they see them as being interesting too (rather than purely because they put something back into society)?
PLG (50) – “THEN WHY THE HELL IS THERE A WAITING LIST FOR THIS GOD AWFUL JOB ?” – evidence please or is this just hearsay?
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PLG, there isn’t the big waiting list like you imagine, there used to be.A lot of posters think there are many who can do the job no problem, but believe me, when it comes to the selection process, you would be suprised at how many fail, for one reason or another.
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Lawyers, scavengers of human misery?
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donald in part answer to your question yes I think I may have a solution that ticks all the boxes and I believe it would be viable if implemented correctly. However let us say certain others might feel a draught. Is Jersey interested in a much more secure future than it has at present? Indeed would it be allowed to have a much more secure future? Anyway enough of that for now.
donald “My tax pays for at least 5 teachers or firemen.”
So, are you expecting a thank you for paying your tax like all the other tax payers do by law? May I suggest if you want to pay less tax earn less quite simple really. You takes you money and you pays your dues.
donald “I didn’t become a lawyer to make society a better place.”
What did you do it for? Was it because it had kudos, made you look big, prestige, massaged your ego, an easier way to get money than your previous job, because you wanted lots of money? You tell me. If you had become a lawyer to help make society a better place then that would be admirable wouldn’t it? It would also help to reverse the greed and service to self culture which is becoming more and more prevalent in today’s society.
donald “And Blame Game:”
my blame game means making those responsible for their own mess sort it out themselves without going to the government to bail them out. IMHO this is so unbelievable it beggers belief yet still we have some people on here who think this is fine and dandy and support these actions. These types then have a go at the working man’s union which is only trying to get a fraction of the cake so that their members can survive over here. Why bicker over crumbs when there is a whole cake? I have to say what a joke.
I am also amazed how one group of workers keeps attacking another. How sad is that? Don’t drag others down to your level. All you are doing is doing the bosses job for them IMHO. Talk about an own goal. It wouldn’t surprise me if business owners are laughing behind your backs. It is so much easier to control things when you have your prey at each others throats IMHO.
donald “Even better, why don’t we all accept responsibility and all try to work out how to make a better future? Everyone has to take the same medicine.”
Does this also include the rich and big business? Or are they largely exempt as appears to be the case to me?
As per Mr. Shenton didn’t he run the dockers in the past? If he did does he have any interests in that area now? Maybe he could enlighten us?
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Harry # 16 ‘Tricky Dicky’ was President of the then Defence Committtee in the late 1980s and he didn’t negotiate the increase in the police’s salaries. Indeed he tried to screw the cops, by making them accept a job evaluation, which he thought would lead to a reduction in their income.
If my memory serves me correctly the Fire and Rescue Service underwent the same process. The recommendation from Hay Management Consultants led to pay increases for all concerned. That said cops accepted far less than Hay Management Consutlants said they were worth. I was a Detective Constable at the time and my pay went from ca £13,500 to £18,000 +
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So many things to comment upon but lets just take one.
We are a small Island and we have to live within our means. We cannot run a structural deficit, because nobody will fund it. There is already a huge amount of uncertainty about the Public Employees Contributory Retirement Scheme (PECRS) and the level of the unfunded liability relating to it.
What we need to do, above everything else, is live within our means. Because if we do not, and if the finance industry drops in profitability over the coming decades, then in 10 or 20 years time we will run out of money. There will be nothing left – no pensions, nada.
At the moment it is anticipated that we will be are running a deficit of around £50-60m. Ron Clooney of the union doesn’t care about this. He doesn’t care if the Island is bankrupt in 10 years time. The firefighters don’t seem to care about this: they see money being wasted by the States and think they will have some to. I can’t blame them.
But this is not a class war. This is a question about how do we control public finances. We can’t run a deficit like the UK because we can’t issue bonds so all this talk of investing to help us through the recession is inapplicable. What we need to do is get back to having a balanced budget. That means cutting back on all sorts of spending unless it can be shown to pay for itself.
It also may mean increasing taxes. But the States needs to first control expenditure. And wages are a big part of that. In the UK many government departments are going to see 25% cuts in real terms over the next parliament. All 3 prospective chancellors agree on that.
That is the immediate future – belt tightening on a scale that none of us have ever seen before. We need to get used to it now. Which is why it is vital that the unions in Jersey – who have never been anything other than obstructive (remember the fuss and the strikes about moving workers from the harbour to bellozane) realise that they are part of our society and that whatever money they can get for their members today they are stealing from all of our futures.
How much do you think your pension will be?
How much support do you think your kids will get in higher education?
What will the hospital look like in 2025?
Jersey had money coming out of its ears and the idiots in charge between 1980 and 2000 wasted it. Now we need to keep things in check or face a future that few of us would find acceptable.
But that’s why we are in this mess: that is what the credit crunch was. An inability to say no to instant gratification even if you had no idea how to afford it. The lesson we need to learn is simple: only spend what you can afford. We can’t afford public sector pay rises so we shouldn’t give any. Simple as that.
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‘My tax pays for at least 5 teachers or firemen. Plus the legal aid I support which costs six figures a year. So I would say every year when I sign my cheque to the Treasurer I change at least 5 people’s lives very directly by keeping them in a job.’
Good for you!
But some 1(1)K residents are making a lot more than you and paying a lot less in tax but they get to negotiate their tax!
Plus there are the consultants, their fees are paid gross to a company in somewhere sunny that then pays their salaries, zero tax and social security and a nest egg that most Jersey lawyers would die for!
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Watch out, Adrian. If he’s as smart a lawyer as he would like you to think, he’s probably looking at legal ways to take you to the cleaners over your comments!
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Pip are you saying it is possible for someone in Jersey to be getting money paid into their sunny bank account in a tax haven and thus avoid tax in Jersey as they aren’t getting it paid into a Jersey bank account?
Would you be allowed to be given shares in lieu of payment over here to avoid paying tax on this money?
donald the whole lot’s going to blow, the demographic time bomb will see to it IMHO. Explain to me how one worker is going to pay for one retiree in 15-20 years time? Because this is the projected state of play if things carry on as they are.
People are getting more and more disillusioned with work from what I can see. To raise the retirement age to 75 or 80 is going to go down like a lead ballon IMHO. What do others think?
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