‘We’re not to blame for crisis,’ say the teachers
Friday 26th March 2010, 2:58PM GMT.
Ron Clooney of NASUWT
TEACHERS have warned that they will not pay for a recession caused by a greedy finance industry as they prepared for last-ditch talks to avoid widespread industrial action.
Jersey’s biggest teaching union, the NASUWT, said that all public sector workers were being asked to take the rap for an economic situation caused by forces out of their control.
And they warned that unless the States backed down and agreed to some of their demands they would ballot over industrial action within weeks.
More than 150 members of the NASUWT and the NUT attended separate meetings last night to voice their anger at last-year’s public sector pay freeze and the ongoing dispute over terms and conditions.
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Sounds like greedy teachers want over inflation pay rises! I as a tax payer don’t want to pay for is when I haven’t had a pay rise for 2 years and am not in finance either.
I say sack any who go on strike and recruit new teachers. Local teachers get paid far more than in the UK I have friend who teaches in the UK and has applied twice for a job in Jersey as the pay is so good.
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It’s probably fair to say that no-one in Jersey is to blame for the current financial situation. However, the reality is that we are all affected by the economic downturn and teachers are unlikely to gain public approval for this type of action.
Without public support for the teachers, the States can probably afford to sit this one out.
Has the NASWT considered where the money comes from to pay their members’ salaries? The answer lies in the first paragraph of the article.
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Oh boo hoo, I am going to cry for the teachers! My husband works in the finance industry and was made redundant recently. Although being highly qualified he has had to take a job on half the salary. Finance workers do not have a job for life, cannot threaten to strike over pay and conditions and certainly don’t get 12 weeks holiday a year! The teachers need to join the real world. Why do they think they are so hard done by?
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Totally agree with Tom. Not everyone in Finance gets excessively paid. Teachers get a very healthy wage with an even healthier holiday allowance. Go work in the UK as a teacher and then come back and complain about your income!
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What an utterly selfish lot you are! We all have to weather this downturn, like it or not. I didn’t get a payrise this year and I don’t work in any finance-related role – why exactly should you?
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On your bike Tom
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I am a teacher and I am not greedy. All we want is to have our terms and conditions to be in place. The GREEDY states of JERSEY are trying to take away our rights and the public sector workers rights away!!
I have worked in the UK and yes the pay is less, however I am paying 4 times as much on accommodation alone never mind food and bills, therefore the pay does not reflect this high standard of living. We are currently worse off than teachers in the UK as the price of living is FAR cheaper. Jersey is the 7th richest country and the UK is the 27th richest country and the UK teachers do not have to do cover,2 dutys a week or exam inviligation. We have all of these to do. This is a part of our contract. However the UK can afford for other workers to do cover, duties and exam invilgation, remember they are the 27th RICHEST country and we are the 7th and the STATES refuse to do this!!!!! I wonder why!!!! To keep their own greedy pockets lined.
As for sacking teachers if a strike happens, you have obviously been misinformed strike action is a last resorts. As teachers our students wellbeing is always a top priority. If the States do not see sense and strike action occurs the States of Jersey will either have to sack every teacher who strikes or no one at all. Considering Jersey is such a lucrative place to work maybe you could tell me why it is so hard to recruit new teachers to the Island!!
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It’s frightening that those teaching our children are quite clearly so unintelligent. So they don’t want to pay for a recession caused by a greedy finance industry huh? Do they think the recession was limited to Jersey and caused by the local finance industry? Do they not realise it was a global recession that originated primarily as a result of inappropriate credit being given out in the USA?
Everyone suffers, unfortunately that’s life. No doubt these same teachers will be up in arms when GST has to go up a few more percent to pay for their own payrises!
Finally what a great example they are setting to their pupils who if recent reports are anything to believe are seriously struggling to find any work at all, leaving school and going straight onto income support.
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The teachers may not have been to blame for the recession but their jobs are also not at risk.
Employees in the finance industry are not only getting no pay rise but also are loosing their jobs – and they are also not to blame for the recession; the financiers who came up with complex risk taking financial derivatives are.
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How distasteful with the economic climate the way it is to come out with such a comment, I am sure that the people who have lost their jobs/busnesses/homes recently didnt didnt want to pay for the reccession either.
We as tax payers do not want to pay for greedy teachers.
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Any teacher who agrees in taking industrial action should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. What makes them think that they deserve a 2% pay increase, above inflation when no-one else has had one either in finance or otherwise.
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I agree with Tom. It’s pathetic to have a tantrum like this. We all have to tighten our belts. If they need more money go get a summer job and read up about economics!!!
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tom @1 – what the JEP is yet again failing to report is that the teachers (and others) are protesting about the terms and conditions not just pay. Remind your friend in the uk that although the pay for teachers in Jersey may be higher comparatively than the uk, at least he/she doesn’t have to give up “free” periods (which are used for marking/lesson planning) to cover other teachers absence or supervise kids in the playground during their lunch break (forgoing having a lunch break themselves).
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“They are not to blame for the crisis” No but there adding fuel to the fire to keep it going. Stop thinking of yourselves for a change & act like responsible people.
Other people have taken a pay cut(myself included) Don’t like it, but it’s better than not having a job.
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Pauline #7
Please explain to me how the States are being greedy or keeping their pockets lined when the money saved by freezing wages is not kept by them personally? Is that how you think government works – any savings made are pocketed by States members? And you teach?!! The wage freeze isn’t about teachers terms and conditions, it’s about the fact there is less income forecast from here on and savings need to be made or you will need to pay higher taxes.
Either you must have been living in one of the most deprived and horrible areas of the UK if you were paying 1/4 of what you pay now, or you’re living in far better accommodation here.
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No. 3 Scottishlass – you forget that your husband was taught by a teacher. It is a very underestimated profession and they deserve all they pay rises they can get.
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I say bring it on…..! I then wont have to waste my time taking my eight year old to school. The education in local primary schools is appalling,I believe these so called teachers only deserve minimum wage, nevermind asking for more.
They have more time off and more holidays than the Queen.
I could teach my child more at home in a week than these so called educators teach him in a year.
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What price an education?
At present the private education system is subsidising the states education as every child at a private school saves around half the costs of that child for the tax payer as the states only pay around half and the parents pay the other half.
If all private schools were done away with taxes would have to rise. Fancy that anyone?
As this person has rightly pointed out it wasn’t their fault that someone messed up big style. If there was any justice those responsible would be paying wouldn’t they, not those who aren’t to blame?
As I have mentioned before is it right for anyone to renage on a promise? It appears some on here think this is OK. (Terms and conditions)
As per greed you are looking in the wrong place, and because you are doing this you will end up paying more taxes IMHO.
“Everyone suffers, unfortunately that’s life.”
Why should I be paying for others incompetence in an industry I have little faith in? I object most strongly to having my quality of life erroded due to others greed and incompetence. Now I also face having my standard of living hit as well.
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As someone who is currently employed in Education and has worked in law,finance, advertising and other sectors I can understand the sentiments of many of the comments above. However, it does need to be pointed out that many of you commenting are relying solely on an inaccurately reported story. Many of my colleagues are not so much disillusioned with their pay but are angry about having their free and fair negotiating rights restricted. In a modern democracy you cannot simply take away a workers right to negotiate. I think most teachers are very realistic about the pay crisis. However, I do get rather annoyed by many who criticise teachers. When things are good teachers do not get bonus or company perks and yes in a recession our job security is stronger than most but having worked in finance and law I have seen the large and sometimes obscene bonuses paid to employees in the past. As for those who think we have 12 weeks holiday a year then they obviously don’t really know anything about our job. Don’t criticise a person until you are prepared to walk a mile in their shoes!
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Hi Joker
Your username is quite apt, you clearly are not informed about the current conditions facing teachers. The current negotiations are focussed not only on a pay rise which is not our main objective but the fact that the states of jersey plan to take away our negotiating rights. This could result in redundancies, eroding of our pensions and the government introducing a whole host of extra duties that we would we have to fulfil. So the focus is not a pay rise it is for the right to negotiate. My accomodation in the UK was quite comfortable and unless you are having a “joke” I am sure you would not dispute that the standard of living in Jersey is much higher than anywhere in the UK.
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My daughter and her husband are both teachers in England and although my daughter still loves Jersey (her birth place) I think she now knows that their standard of living would be very poor if they chose to return and work on the island.Yes the pay would be better but they would have to leave their 4 bedroomed detached house in a beautiful village and settle for a terraced rabbit hutch on an estate(if they were lucky)I wish people would stop coming out with the same old cliches about 12 weeks holidays as this is simply not true but has already been well and truly discussed on a previous forum so I won’t repeat it all.I just know that teaching would be way down my list if I could start over again as it seems to be a soul-destroying job these days.
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Greedy teachers! WTF!?!?
Show me ONE teacher who entered the profession out of greed. Teachers do what they do because they care about seeing their pupils succeed. If money was the motivation they would have gone into the finance industry, the legal system or banking.
Working conditions over here are far worse then in the UK (having taught in inner city London for 4 years I was appalled at what teachers are expected to do when I took up my post at a local secondary several years ago).
Teachers are held in disdain by the States and, apparently, by most of the people on this thread. My guess is that you got told off one too many times when you were at school and this is some kind of pathetic collective revenge fantasy…no doubt you’ll be sending cruel drawings of us all in to the JEP letters page next.
Dave
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This Island is well and truely going to the dogs assisted by greedy unions, teachers who are not in th real world and inadequate government.
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21- Julie- well i’m not a teacher but 2 weeks at Easter, 2 weeks at Xmas and 8 weeks in summer including half terms certainly adds up to 12 weeks holiday to me!
Teachers over here are lucky compared to their peers in the Uk- Sure there may be a few problems at certain schools on the island but they dont have to deal with travellers, knives in the classrooms etc like my friends do in the UK
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A couple teachers have commented on here they accept they would earn less in the UK and hence agree they have higher wages here! but say they would have a better standard of living in he UK on less wage.
If this is true why don’t they move there then, the reason the standard of living would not be higher. I lived in the uk on a similar wage to I now have and I can tell you after paying higher tax, higher NI, higher car insurance, higher rates, higher travel costs I was worse off and then the crime is worse, the environment is less good and kids can’t play as safely.
Any who strike should go and try the UK, I will wave them good bye, but they would run back to Jersey.
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Pauline 7 and 20
I don’t wish to be too personal but I have difficulty in believing you really are a teacher. You can’t really think the SOJ are being greedy by denying you a pay rise….can you? Is that what you would tell your students? You are aware that Jersey has a £64 million annual deficit and an unaffordable public employees pension system that is currently £200 million plus in deficit and growing?
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Let’s put things in perspective – there are very few employed in the finance industry who earn these massive salaries and bonuses. The vast majority work very hard, work long hour and have no job security. Many are forced out of work through stress such is the nature of the job.
But let us for the benefit of the Union oversimplify events. The few greedy bankers who caused the crash where allowed to get away with taking such risks because the Government, desperate for the billions of pounds in tax revenues, relaxed the regulations and solvency requirements. Why did the government need the money – to pay the greedy teachers (along with the rest of the public sector) who demand more money than society can afford.
Teachers – You are to blame. Why then should the rest of us now have to finance you?
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“We’re not to blame for crisis”, say the teachers.
“So what?”, say everyone else.
If you (the teachers) want other people to care about your grievances, then your unions are going to have to come up with better arguments than that.
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If the Jersey teachers have any brains or understanding of the views of Islanders they should disassociate themselves from the offensive and factually incorrect views of Mr Clooney.
The idea that the recession was caused by a greedy finance industry is simplistic and offensive. Blaming a minority for a big problem is usually the product of either a simple or a prejudiced mind, neither of which should be a qualification to speak for the teaching profession.
What caused the recession? Let me tell you all once and for all. All of us. For over a decade Britain (and Jersey) had splurged on credit. Credit cards, storecards, mortgages, we borrowed loads because we wanted to consume and couldn’t wait. And banks lent us the money willingly, partly because lending money was regarded by the banks as creating income.
Then, one day, people realised that so much has been borrowed that it won’t all be repaid (this realisation first hit in relation to US sub-prime mortgages). So the banks stop lending and people stop spending because they realise they need to pay back what they have borrowed and the banks need less exposure to bad debt.
So yes, the banks were to blame, just as everyone with a mortgage or credit card was to blame. The effect of the splurge was 10 years of “economic growth” that turned out to be a mirage, fuelled by people spending money they had not yet earned. BUT – and here is the big but – that caused inflationary pressures that fed into increases in teachers salaries. In other words, they had ten good years of pay rises because of “the greed of bankers”, and they took those pay rises happily.
But it wasn’t bankers that caused this crisis – it was all of us, from the politicians to the man in the street buying a new TV on 3 years interest free credit. Everyne who believed boom and bust had been abolished when in reality the biggest boom of all time was happening under their noses. And the bankers? They were the ones that lost the money that we all wasted on rubbish we didn’t need. Probably because teachers didn’t do their job in the first place and created a generation who lacked the common sense and willpower to resist the lure of easy credit.
So if we want to start blaming people for the recession, teachers are as good a place to start as bankers.
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Yes Frenchie (comment 24)I agree that on paper it is 12 weeks but the teachers I know spend a great percentage of that time in school or working at home,that is if they are decent teachers anyway.Of course there is no flexibility for holidays either-you are stuck with paying over the top prices as you can only go away during school holidays too although parents don’t mind taking their children out during term time but wouldn’t be too impressed if the teachers did the same!I used to think teaching was a good profession to be in but I have certainly seen the other side of the coin through having family who are actually teachers.
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wow! how to make friends and influence people. talk about diplomacy, stating your case and getting people on your side, social skill? na! still, get born go to school, get exams, leave school, go to university, study geography, realise everyone has a sat nav and google, your degree is as useless as you are! think? (for once) as yes totally useless at everything else so become a teacher! go to training college and learn how to talk down to kids (and their parents) smile in an annoying way, get qualifed and go back to school, take thirteen weeks holiday a year with a guaranteed pay rise, shout ‘tuck your shirt in’ and ‘no’ and ‘boy come here’. retire at 60 or go sick with the stress of ink stained fingers and fester into old age not knowing you have demtia as you never engaged your brain anyway.
mate you have really cheesed me off (and dont start checking for spelling mistakes pay attention!) we are all suffering so I am afraid if you consider yourselves part of our community and not sent down from god as an angel on work experience you will have to suffer with the rest of us low life in the finance industry as we pay your wages (beer and Guardian Newspaper tokens that appear by magic in your bank account every month)
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Pauline – negotiating rights, you dont have them currently you have a noegotiating ability which if you cant keep it is obviously appauling.
going into teaching for greed? most teachers go into the profession becuase they are incapable of doing anything else and want an easy life with instant power in place of earned respect.
if teachers want a pay rise or even paying at all we should be holding them to account in their performance. parents evening should be a question of asking the teacher why they have not performed and done their job not the other way around
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I commend readers once again to
The Jersey Handbook of Useful Emotive Phrases.
Chapter one. “Holding to Ransom”
Chapter two. “Greedy”
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@ Pauline # 7
“…2 dutys a week ….” Isn’t that duties? As you are a teacher do I need English lessons?
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Teachers do work hard …. they do a lot behind the scenes, have to put up in some cases with lip, bad behaviour etc.
But where ispay rise going to come from the states have already wasted it on stupid projects, bad decisions holes in the ground, statutes, pay to staff who have been suspended, back handers, a combination of all the above………the list goes on and on
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#24
“…they dont have to deal with travellers, knives in the classrooms etc like my friends do in the UK”
Knives in the classroom are hardly a UK only phenomenon or even a recent one.
How else do you think we carved our names into the desks at Victoria College?
“2 weeks at Easter, 2 weeks at Xmas and 8 weeks in summer including half terms certainly adds up to 12 weeks holiday to me!”
You do all realise that one reason why teachers get twelve weeks holiday is because that is what the pupils get (minus a few training days).
Would you all start moaning that you can’t go away as a family because the school terms are too long?
There might, of course, be some parents who would like to see much longer school terms in order that they can dump their offspring whilst carrying on the pursuit of Mammon unhindered by holidays and how to survive them.
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Most people not working in finance have already suffered and many are out of work because of it.. and its not just because of greedy bankers you still have jobs and some people are still scraping by having to pay their taxes which pay teachers wages.. overpopulation and housing markets need we say more? giving mortgages to people who cant pay mortgages the list goes on stop whining please
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Boris
I am disappointed that you think that the only people who go into teaching are those who cannot do anything else. Perhaps you would consider that if we were all such no hopers you may not have been able to spell, add and write!
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Dear Boris
I am employed to educate your child not be a parent to them. If your child is not achieving their full potential then perhaps you ought to consider the fact that maybe the fact that you cant be bothered to actually talk to them and get home and spend some quality time with them might be the cause of the problem. Oopps sorry did I interrupt your dinner party!
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CP, every person in jersey who had anything to do with a securitisation, conduit,SIV, SivLite,CDO,CDO squared, CDShadething to do with this implosion albeit most of them unknowingly. Flawed structures that sent out the wrong signles and encouraged wreckless lending and the collapse in underwriting standards. Still if you are a partner in one of our corporate lawyers or trust companies pulling down £30k a month during the bubble period you wouldn’t be that bothered about the consequences even if you were bright enough to know you were playing your part in the emperor’s new clothes.
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#20 Pauline I see your crystal ball is seeing what unfortunately will happen – redundancies, reduction of pensions and addition of extra dutues. I don’t know whether this is right or wrong for teachers, but this is the reality for many already. You just have to look at Donald Pond’s #29 to see why so many are incensed by the ‘imported from the Uk’s’ Mr Clooney’s comments.
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I must say, the teachers union in Jersey are a little blinkered. Jersey wasted 30 million pounds to create an incinerator on Jersey’s north coastline – no cash left for pay rises.
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tom (comment 25) You must have missed my comment 21!Perhaps the reason why some teachers DON’T leave Jersey is because they are local and actually WANT to be there but are starting to wonder if they are in the right place and whether they would be better off elsewhere?I dislike this attitude that if you don’t like it then leave as maybe some people would rather improve things and stay rather than feel pushed out.But anyway don’t bother waiting for me and my family to run back to Jerey as it won’t be happening-the grass(and lots of it) is greener here for us in lovely old-fashioned rural England.You must have lived in a rough part of the UK-of which there certainly are a few but not all the same thankfully!
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@Boris
Mate I instinctively started pointing out the grammar and punctuation mistakes in your last posts but realised I just don’t have enough red pens to complete the job.
@the rest of you
What a disgusting bunch. The sole purpose of many of you here seems to be to attack the teaching profession; apparently we are greedy, ignorant fools who do our job simply because we are no good at anything else.
The fact that ALL of you (yes ALL of you) are doing what you are doing today because someone out there took the time to teach you how to do it is apparently lost on you…
You expect us to teach your youngsters decent literacy, numeracy, thinking skills, drug awareness, citizenship, sexual awareness blah blah blah whilst at the same time treating us with the utter contempt demonstrated on this thread…is it any wonder that teachers are leaving the profession in droves?
Grow up the lot of you and stop using this thread to air old grievances that you should have left years ago. You’ll be burning books next no doubt, and screaming how all authors are lazy lay-abouts who have nothing better to do then ‘use words.’
Savages, the lot of you.
Teacher
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Clm QED mate; I think you have stepped into the trap of showing just how condecending teachers can be and yours is the only profession (and I now use that term in its broadest sense)that believes it can constantly blame its materials for its failures, apart from the railways that always have the wrong sort of snow or leaves on their track! there comes a time when we have to question whether or not teachers are actually doing a good job given that many kids do under achieve and teachers have fought against accountability for years. Not sure where you got the idea that I had a child that was under achieving as for dinner parties, I actually gave up the opportunity to work long hours earn loads of money to make sure as a single parent my child got as much love and attention I could supply so think again as a bad workman always blames his tools.
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I have been a teacher in Jersey for over ten years now. I have seen the worth of my salary decrease in real terms now for the last five. I work hard; have a great deal of extra responsibilities which I undertake without remuneration. I love where I work, the children I teach and unlike some of the exceptionally ill-minded contributors to this thread, I have very grateful parents who know what my school is doing to encourage and develop their child’s lives. Yes it’s true we have all been a bit blinkered by years of credit, overspending and incompetence across the world. We are in a very precarious position globally. It is to our children that we must look now, what is there world to be like after the excesses of our generation? I came into teaching because I think the right to learn is undeniable for every child. My own personal education was poor and I just felt I could do a better job. I constantly read up on the latest educational thinking, work most weekends, holidays and often till late in the night, like so many of my colleagues. We have the resources to do a really good job in Jersey, and to give the future workforce the skills and initiative not to rely on our crumbling finance industry. This is a time for investing in education, not a time for cuts. Teacher’s wages and conditions have deteriorated for years now, whilst this island continues to fritter away money on obscene and pointless schemes and gestures. It is a time to get our priorities right. I am undecided about industrial action. You can all be sure there will not be a single teacher on this island that does not take this decision with a great deal of thought and a heavy heart.
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@29 Donald Pond
Interesting point of view, that we all caused the recession. I think that is a typical answer from most finance and legal industries. Could never be them, right (I believe you are a lawyer)?
Yes the people did borrow too much, but hang on, where did they get the money from? Who lent the people the money? As a parent do you stop a child having lots of sweets, no matter how much they want them?
The fact is, finace houses changed their lending criteria because they could make more money. They basically gave the keys to the sweet shop to the children.
Bit like a lawyer complaining about legal aid and how it affects their profit margins. Legal aid is a requirement in Jersey for advocates to provide. Would they provide legal aid off their own bat, from the goodness of their hearts? It is therefore a restriction on your activities, just as lending criteria is a restriction on the “I want” attitude of the people.
Sometimes you must have control.
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A parable for modern times.
A fruit and veg man has rotting vegetables. As he doesn’t want to take a loss on them he has a brain wave.
He puts the rotting vegetables in the bottom of a barrel and puts nice fragrant fruits on top. He has his wares on sale in the market but undercuts the others by having a special offer. Consequently lots of people buy his wares.
Unfortunately on getting home and eating the nice fruit on looking into the barrel a bit further they find it nearly full of rotting vegetables.
They are not best pleased as they feel they have been taken advantage of. Luckily they know there is a trading standards to whom they can complain.
However on returning to the market to confront the gentleman responsible, the authorities tell them that not only is there nothing they can do about it, but the customers and all their friends and family, now also have to pay the gentleman’s costs as he is at risk of going bust and they can’t have that!
The incident goes down as “Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables.”
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What an ignorant & SELFISH bunch the teachers seem to be!
Pauline 7
“Jersey is the 7th richest country and the UK is the 27th richest country”
Last time I looked Jersey wasn’t a country!
“UK teachers do not have to do cover,2 dutys a week or exam inviligation. We have all of these to do. This is a part of our contract.”
So what is your point? This is YOUR CONTRACT…i.e. what you are PAID to do!
13 Disheartened
“at least he/she doesn’t have to give up “free” periods (which are used for marking/lesson planning) to cover other teachers absence or supervise kids in the playground during their lunch break (forgoing having a lunch break themselves).”
Do you not realise that we ALL went to school so we have some idea of how teachers work.
I know for a fact teachers do not work a solid 7-8 hours a day just teaching kids.
Lessons are often used to mark homework or prepare other lessons whilst the kids get on with their assignments. Also, there are several “free” periods during the day to allow this and it is expected that the teachers will supervise kids during the many breaks they have each day…..normally on a rotational basis.
I would LOVE to have a free period or morning/afternoon break during my working day instead of working upaid overtime but guess what…..the real world has to work solidly or risk losing our jobs!
Clm 19
“Don’t criticise a person until you are prepared to walk a mile in their shoes!”
Isn’t that exactly what the teachers union is doing with regards to the economic crisis we’re all in…….blaming the finance industry!
You may blame the finance industry for the mess we are all in, but if you take it a step back then perhaps it is their teachers who are really to blame for not educating them on ethics? how do you like that!
29 Donald Pond
excellent post….very well said.
Clm 38
” If your child is not achieving their full potential ….”
Actually, that is your job as a teacher to help students realise their potential! Please tell me exactly what it is you think you are doing because the more comments I read from teachers the more I realise they are not quite up to the job!
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Donald Pond # 29. Excellent – you have got right to the heart of the problem. We are all responsible for what has occurred and we must all stop blaming others for this finacial faux pas.
Put succinctly, we shouldn’t spend what we haven’t got or what we are unlikely to earn in the future. We shouldn’t live a Rolls Royce life style on a bicycle budget.
Teachers and other States employees need to be thankful that they have job security and just need to tighten their belts until the Island’s finacial crisis has been stabilised.
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A Teacher 43
“The fact that ALL of you (yes ALL of you) are doing what you are doing today because someone out there took the time to teach you how to do it is apparently lost on you…”
Actually no school teacher ever taught me how to do my job thank you very much!
You may have helped with reading and writing (to an extent)…..maybe even maths (if you class sitting students down with a maths book and instructing them to read and complete the assignments as “teaching”). however, a lot of my studies and qualifications have been attained by myself through self-study….so I am not doing what i do today solely because of my school teachers…..how ignorant of you to think so!
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#34 Rozeljoe
“@ Pauline # 7
“…2 dutys a week ….” Isn’t that duties? As you are a teacher do I need English lessons? ”
Don’t expect too much, Joe.
I worked in the UK education service from 1969 to 1997 and witnessed the decline not just in teachers’ spelling but in their general knowledge and life skills as well.
The decline began as a result of the “Bulge”. Teachers were needed desperately and recruiting criteria were lowered.
Suddenly teachers came onto the scene whose English was more appropriate to street markets than school but never mind, eh, they went down well with the new order as the kids could “relate to them bettah”.
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RozelJoe 46
“Yes the people did borrow too much, but hang on, where did they get the money from? Who lent the people the money?2
Yes…..but these weren’t children they were lending to were they. They were adults who ASKED to borrow money. No person was ever forced by the bank to borrow money.
If they knew they couldn’t pay it back then they shouldn’t have borrowed….or at least taken some kind of insurance.
People need to be made accountable for their own decisions and stop blaming everyone else.
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A Teacher
Re spelling and grammar mistakes. As a child I was regularly beaten by teachers for not being able to spell and write until dyslexia was diagnosed at university whilst studying law as a mature student. All three of my children are also dyslexic – one in the most severe 5% and we all manage to hold down jobs in the private sector. Which is a little more than teachers, who rely on our taxes. So thanks for making fun of my disability.
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@ BS Deluxe
Where on earth do you get the idea that teachers have ‘several free periods’ a day? Three or four MAX in one week, with most of these being taken up for covering absent colleagues. And enough with the semantics…it is you and your ridiculous comments that are ‘not quite up to the job.’
May I just take time out to direct you all to the following article:
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2007/02/01/jersey-goes-010-and-its-politicians-line-up-to-quit/
Here we have a tax expert commenting on the introduction of the ‘zero ten’ tax policy. It was written in Feb 2007. The author goes on to predict that Jersey will accrue ‘a financial deficit of maybe £120 million from 2008 onwards.’
All this talk of recession blah blah is nonsense. The mess we are in and the reason teachers and firefighters are protesting is as follows:
FOREIGN BIG BUSINESS GETS TO OPERATE TAX FREE
A DEFICIT GROWS…so….
CUTS ARE MADE IN THE LOCAL PUBLIC SECTOR
Now if all of you think that this is a good and fair way to run the island then fine, keep slagging off the teachers/firefighters, oppose their complaints and carry on with your business.
You will, eventually, get the island you deserve.
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I am appalled by the comments against teachers.
All of those that say they are greedy etc should try being a teacher!
You have your 9 – 5 job, get home and do not have anything else to do other than domestic things.
A teacher’s job does not finish at 3.
I am a student teacher but worked for 4 years prior in admin – do you have any idea how much EXTRA work they have to do?
On placement I have had occasions where i have had to stay up sometimes till 1am just to get tests/book marked from today to get ready for the tomorrow, i had to MAKE time to cook dinner and shower etc.
Further to the workload – do you have any idea the kind of behaviour teachers have to face everyday from YOUR children?! And not just one or two children, but a class of 30 odd?!
You don’t have to face that in your normal 9 – 5 job either.
And I’m not even going to go into covering other people’s lessons in other subjects and lunch duties etc. How many time do you HAVE to give up YOUR lunch time to cover someone else during your normal 9-5 job?
So next time you decide to slate teachers just think about those things and think – would you be able to do a teacher’s job? I’d like to see you all try… Teaching is a work of heart! It’s not something you do for the money, I can assure you.
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BSD people should not be working unpaid hours all the time. It is taking advantage and should stop.
The usual rubbish of “if you don’t…blah blah blah…. you risk losing your job” doesn’t wash with me I’m afraid. I’ve heard it too many times before. (even in the good times)
I wouldn’t expect a boss to be spending 4-5 hours every working day in anyone’s house doing unpaid work for them would you?
Why be a slave to work? Work should enable you to live if it doesn’t perform this basic of basic functions then where is the incentive? The state will look after you at the end of the day. Luckily for those high up the food chain not too many have gone down this route yet.
However if you upset too many people, too much of the time, you risk this happening.
At the end of day children only go to school for one reason IMHO and that is to prepare them for the big wide world of work, ans we know what thats like don’t we? Stab! stab!
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“Teaching is a work of heart! It’s not something you do for the money, I can assure you.”
Why are you striking because of the money then?
And since when did anyone in the private sector work 9-5 with a lunch hour? My wife and I worked 80 hour weeks at time when things were busy and did we complain? No. But when we felt we deserved more money we asked for it. But that is because the private sector rewards performance, whereas the unions believe the bad should be paid the same as the good.
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Look folks, there are good and bad teachers like in any other profession (Over 40 years ago, I had a maths teacher who used to grab hold of my hair and bang my head against the blackboard, because I couldn’t grasp principles of algebraic geometry). Thats not the point. The issue is people need to be more responsible and not demand an unrealistic pay rise in a time of economic depression. Although algebra still confuses me, I can grasp the principles of economics.
As for the work ethics of foreigners, as alluded to in some of the above submissions. I still maintain that generally they moan less than us and often do a better job for less money.
Oh yes and I am afraid we have been hoodwinked over the minimum wage; in some major European they don’t have a minimum wage. But who would deny that German engineering is amongst the finest – if not the best – in the world?
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@Boris
Sorry to hear about your experiences as a dyslexic. I note however that in response to me you have ensured that your writing is 100% grammatically perfect.
Well done! A* from me…that’s what we teachers are here for.
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I loved teachers(the series on TV some time ago)wish they would bring it back.
If govt are not careful they will go down the same road as nurses,who at one time were queuing up to work here,when conditions and pay was good.
no chance now as the cost of living is so high.
Think they are using excuse of recession to stop any pay rises and better conditions,not just for teachers but any other workers
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that A Teacher is because my wife did it for me and I dont need any patronising A stars from you mate just get on with your job and stop moaning
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“My wife and I worked 80 hour weeks at time when things were busy and did we complain?”
You didn’t get up in the morning, the day before, at half past ten at night, half an hour before you went to bed to work these 80 hour shifts did you?
Or was it only 40 hours each per week?
“But when we felt we deserved more money we asked for it.”
What did the boss do? Did he ask you to get up a full half hour earlier in the morning, the day before at ten at night one hour before you went to bed….
“But that is because the private sector rewards performance…”
Do you mean like those who sold sub prime mortgages and left the rest to pay for it?
If this is the case, is it any wonder we are in a mess, if this is how the private sector rewards performance…..
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@ Boris
See me.
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Boris,
“that A Teacher is because my wife did it for me and I dont need any patronising A stars from you mate just get on with your job and stop moaning”.
Odd, you were a single parent a couple of posts earlier.
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Re: my post above.
You also have three children, or is it just a child?
Best make that a C for waffling.
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49 BS – how arrogant and pedantic you seem to be! ok so you work a solid 7-8 hour day with unpaid overtime do you?? so you don’t go and make yourself a cuppa as and when you please? you don’t take fag breaks or go off to the loo as and when you please? if the teachers are marking whilst the kids are working on assignments fair play to them – sounds like an effective and efficient use of time to me! obviously they’re not gonna be distracted from what they’re doing by kids asking questions or just generally playing up?! YOU may be doing what you do today through self study but who equipped you with the tools to be able to undertake that study? answer – every teacher that ever taught you along with nurture from your parents as well as your own personality traits. who wrote the books you studied from? guessing they would have been professors who again are teachers of higher education. you obviously have an issue with teachers which runs deeper than a bit of jealousy that they are able to collectively argue to maintain their pay and conditions? as for all the unpaid overtime you work….simply why? do you live to work or work to live? your employer is taking advantage if you are expected to work overtime unpaid regularly. perhaps you should do something about it?
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@ Boris.
As for falling into the trap of being condescending. You have periodically rubbished an entire profession as having no career direction or motivation. You acuse us of all going into the job because we didn’t know what else to do ! Surely that is grossly condescending. You also allude to your dyslexia and are obviously very bitter towards those who failed to recognise and provide for it, yet you fail to accept that others have their own reasons for doing what they do. I returned to teaching after my first daughter was seriously ill in SCBU for four weeks. After seeing the fantastic job that the nurses did and experiencing their passion to help and ‘give something back’ to society, i was inspired to follow suit and I quit my well paid job and went back to teaching. You want some respect because you and your children are disadvantaged by dyslexia, but appear to be totally devoid of any respect for others.Your experience of education was quite obviously very negative but don’t tar us all with the same brush as some of us take our role very seriously and do car about what we do.!
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Adrian,
Even by your standards 63 is incomprehensible:
““My wife and I worked 80 hour weeks at time when things were busy and did we complain?”
You didn’t get up in the morning, the day before, at half past ten at night, half an hour before you went to bed to work these 80 hour shifts did you?”
Err, no – we got to work at 8 in the morning and stayed, sometimes until 2 or 3 at night if there was a transatlantic closing, day after day. One time my wife worked for 8 weeks without a day off. And did we get paid overtime? No – lawyers don’t. Did we complain? Only to each other.
But if the client was happy they knew who had done the work and the “bosses” knew that if we left to join another firm the client might well follow us. So when we asked for a pay rise, we got it.
I honestly think the public sector has no idea how hard the private sector works.
Even – dare I say i – bankers. Do you really think anyone gets paid hundreds of thousands for doing a 9 to 5 job and working to rule?
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Mr. Clooney: Your assertion that financial industry greed is responsible for the global financial crisis is patently false. To say that because teachers aren’t to blame, they shouldn’t suffer the consequences speaks volumes. You have, in a single sentence, shown who’s greedy, and who completely lacks any understanding/appreciation of the fiscal crisis facing the States. What part of ‘The piggy Bank is empty’ don’t you understand? I don’t know what your day job is, but I sincerely hope you’re not a teacher. I want my children educated, not indoctrinated.
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67 Disheartened
Regarding unpaid overtime……it’s not a problem for me and it is expected when needed to cover absent staff. It’s called giving that little bit extra and working as a team. In the “evil” finance industry this is commonplace so maybe public sector workers need to wake up a bit more and just knuckle down!
I resent the idea that (some) teachers are moaning about the extra work they do….I was merely trying to draw a comparison to show they are not the ONLY ones who have to perform more for less.
With regards to the marking in a classroom I was merely responding to some grievances laid down by teachers saying they have too much work to prepare in their own time at home, during holidays etc. I was pointing out it was commonplace for teachers to mark homework during class…..alternatively they might want to look at their own organisational and presentation skills.
And yes, my teachers helped me with the basics, but I do not attribute any of my achievements to them since then. In fact if they made lessons more enjoyable I may have tried harder at school and become more of a success, but they were more concerned with the students behaviour than actual learning!
Furthermore, I and people around me helped to equip me with the tools for further study. It’s not just about reading and writing, but encouragement and inspiration too. I never got any of that from a teacher!
They do an ok job, but lets put it into perspective…..they only start us off in life, the rest is up to us. They aren’t gods so why should they get a pay rise when everyone else in the civilised world is getting pay cuts or even losing their jobs!
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I don’t want to pay for the crises either. Nor does anyone else. What makes teachers any different from the rest of us?
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@ Mr Pond
Having worked in law myself a large proportion of lawyers are lucky to have made partnership as they do not have the quality or work ethic to make it in the city! How you have the audacity to have a go at teachers when your profession has held this island to ransom for decades charging immoral hourly rates for private gain.
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clm: “How you have the audacity to have a go at teachers when your profession has held this island to ransom for decades charging immoral hourly rates for private gain.”
I don’t think I ever had a Jersey client. I may have been charging a whack, but it was being paid for my external businesses. I was – you may have heard of this but have probably never come across it – bringing wealth into the Island.
Of course lawyers are expensive. Do you know why? Its because they have unlimited liability. So if they get one thing wrong they can be sued for everything they have got.
Having said that, as someone who was an average lawyer married to a great lawyer, I do agree with the basic assessment that many are lucky and would not have done so well in the City. Mind you, that applies to every profession in Jersey. Do you really think our politicians would cut it in Westminster or our retailers in Croydon?
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It is not about one profession taking pops at another. It is not about the extra amount of holidays teachers have. It is not about private sector employees sometimes working through the night to close deals. It is not about who does a good job. It is not about who does a bad job. It is about everyone being counted in times of trouble, and teachers cannot bow out to this responsibility. Yes, they do not cause economic issues, but nor did the vast majority of people who have not received a pay rise. It is about acting in the interest of the community and the economy. Selfish narrowmindedness will not achieve this and will simply be divisive as can be seen by the number of posts above.
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These comments provide spectacular verbal jousting, but leave me baffled as to what this industrial dispute is about? #20 was the most informative implying it is mainly about the employer planning to remove the employees’ negotiating rights. Is that so?
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donald I wonder what 4 Yorkshiremen would make of working 08:00 on one day and staying at work till 03:00 the next morning?
You say your wife worked 8 weeks without a day off. Don’t you like her or something? Anyway good for her, did she get a meddle or a gold star for that?
As per long hours at work. In the EU you are only meant to do 48 hours hours at work per week except in exceptional circumstances, as they realise that excessive hours equates to inefficiency, errors and possibly life threatening accidents.
If I was a client I wouldn’t want someone half asleep working for me. I would prefer someone who could get the work done in a normal working day.
“Do you really think anyone gets paid hundreds of thousands for doing a 9 to 5 job and working to rule?”
Yes I do think, there are people doing 9 to 5 jobs and getting hundreds of thousands, just like I know there are people doing virtually nothing and getting millions.
There are also people not getting fairly rewarded for their efforts and who are expected to be greatful to their boss for a job with them.
Hard work doesn’t necessarily mean big money, achievement or success, just like doing virtually no work doesn’t necessarily mean little pay, no achievement, or no success.
In some situations hard work can achieve very little except for an early grave. Stress at work can cause depression, strokes, heart attacks and death. That is why a work life balance is so important. People need to work to live not live to work.
Do you think it is a good thing that the private sector rewards things like sub prime?
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@76 Shade
Yes mate that is pretty much the main beef – the States effectively assuming a dictatorial stance and ORDERING the teachers to take a pay freeze regardless of requests to negotiate. It isn’t just a pay freeze they are insisting on – it’s a review of working conditions that teachers believe will be detrimental to the efficacy of the profession. If we cave in now we simply set a precedent that enables them to bypass the unions (and our rights) in future.
The focus of the union meetings (I have been to several) is NOT about pay. It is about the ‘cut price education’ (a common phrase encountered) that is about to be inflicted upon the island’s youth. We are taking a stand against this as we do not believe that it is necessary or right.
Of course the JEP and 99% of the population will only see PAY PAY PAY and continue to judge us as such but what can you do…? That’s just the way things go. People want an easy handle on situations to prevent them having to think too hard about the reality.
Mick
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“You say your wife worked 8 weeks without a day off. Don’t you like her or something? Anyway good for her, did she get a meddle or a gold star for that?”
Better than a medal, she got to be partner in her business and taking home a proportion of the profits.
But I know you cannot understand that. In your world, everyone’s ambition is simply to finish work at 5 pm. In my world the ambition is to get promoted.
I always assumed that if I was unskilled and unwilling to work hard I would struggle to buy a nice house or a decent pension. I’m just surprised you haven’t worked this out yet.
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That rights teachers do not want to pay.
They do not want to share the hardship that we are all enduring.
Who the hell cares who is to blame, that can be sorted out after we have all pulled ourselves out of this recession.
Teachers obviously spend too much time with kids, they are starting to behave like them.
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#56 – Caz
I don’t think you should judge what you clearly know very little about it.
“You have a 9 – 5 job” – Really? then please inform my manager of that because most come to work early and finish way past 5 and don’t get paid.
“behaviour teachers have to face everyday” – try speaking with many of our clients, we have to put up with far more than a few stroppy kids.
“covering other people’s lessons in other subjects and lunch duties” – Lunch hour, whats that? Most people i work with don’t have one and do you think that teaching is the only profession where you have to cover someone else’s job when they are absent.
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I knew it – Donald Pond is really a sophisticated lady…..” as someone who was an average lawyer married to a great lawyer.”
My partner is a lawyer and although she is the apple of my eye (She deals mostly with wills, probate conveyancing) I have to say that most of the Jersey Advocates I’ve met would put U.K. solicitors, doing criminal defence or prosecution, to shame. They don’t have the same penache as their Jersey counterparts.
My partner is in business by herself and with the recession, she is doing a lot less work than she would like. Having worked for most of my life in the Public Sector, I don’t have the same worries as having the variable income she has. Neither do teachers.
I firmly believe it is irresponsible to expect a payrise in the current finacial climate. It would be better to wait until the Island’s economy has stabalised and then seek an increase in pay.
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Pauline #20
My sign might be Joker, but you don’t fool me as your cause makes no sense. You state that you are protesting and striking because you are losing the right to negotiate, which I do not believe to be strictly true as one year of settled pay freeze is not the same as losing the right to future negotiations.
Anyway let’s say your action is successful and you seal your right to negotiate (a right you did not lose to begin with), what next? If you negotiate for a pay rise and that is unsuccessful are you telling me you’ll be happy with that and go back to work? No of course not. So stop hiding behind this “right to negotiate” rhetoric and just be honest and say it’s about earning more money in a time when there is less money available.
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My ambition isn’t to work 9-5, or 80 hour weeks it is to be independent of the system. When you have the nowse you will see what I say is the way to go. Until then carry on with your 80 hour weeks etc etc. Promotion is irrelevant as it isn’t promotion people should be seeking.
You need to realise hard work guarentees nothing! It could even lead to an early demise due to stress etc. A little tip for you, you are on the wrong side of the quadrant. Do some research and work smarter not harder! When you work out what I am telling you, come back and say thank you.
To recap you don’t need to work hard, you don’t need many skills and yet you can amass a fortune as you get others to do all the work for you
Since you say you are a lawyer I’m very surprised you haven’t managed to work this out yet. And there’s me thinking lawyers were brainy.
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PJG “Who the hell cares who is to blame, that can be sorted out after we have all pulled ourselves out of this recession.”
Maybe you don’t but I do care and I expect those responsible to pay for their mistakes even if it means losing their jobs, houses, pensions, and bonuses etc.
This would make them more careful with their ways of working, and this wouldn’t be a bad thing, would it? People need to take responsibility for their actions expecially when it has the possibility of costing others their quality of life and futures.
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I said before and I’ll say again, the recession in Jersey is down to those who were not bothered to vote against the incinerator being built at Havre-de-Pas and were not bothered as to the loss of 30 million in the euro-exchange rate.
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“My ambition isn’t to work 9-5, or 80 hour weeks it is to be independent of the system.”
Yet my wife and I both stopped working full time in our mid-30s. While you are indulged in a one man class war.
I wonder who ended up independent of the system?
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donald “While you are indulged in a one man class war.”
Just stating what is thats all. It appears some can’t stomach what is or answer the questions either!
Have you seen the 4 Yorkshiremen yet? Look at their take on things. It sums up things to a tee IMHO, hence the reference from me
What do you reckon have you got an opinion on it or indeed anything else?
When do you aim to be independent of the system then? I take it you are still working silly hours and all that?
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My daughter is a teacher in UK and would very much like to come back HOME to work on her island. She would have more pay, a smaller class and a better working environment. So why don’t the the un-happy teachers fed up with their lot just go home and make room for local qualified people.
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Donald Pond # 87 said to Adrian (I think) “Yet my wife and I both stopped working full time in our mid-30s. While you are indulged in a one man class war.” Oops – It’s the lady who is the great lawyer.
I knew I should have tried harder at school; but then maybe I am mad – I actually enjoy going to work. It’s not all about money; is it?
We all need to remember, there isn’t always contentment in wealth, but there is wealth in contentment.
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Oh dear Joker
How can I make this simple for you, it is absolutely about our rights to negotiate. In the last few rounds of talks representatives from the employment board have failed to show up. They are effectively taking away our negotiating rights which is why we feel so strongly about our current position. Representatives from the NASUWT and the NUT put proposals forward to keep the existing pay freeze but to bring our duties in line with our UK counterparts but guess what the outcome of that was the States were not interested.
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@mojo
Has your daughter ever worked at a (non-private) Jersey school before? If not then she’s in for a shock, trust me.
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Pauline7… why are you so concerned about a right to negotiate, when at present there is nothing to negotiate? Why should we match the UK in terms of your duties? Should we also match the UK in terms of your pay?
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No. 89 Mojo Yes, the teachers from the United Kingdom do tend to complain about their lot. It is more to do with the housing qualification process and the right to buy a house.
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Lets get the facts right here.
The issue is not about the pay and is about the right to negotiate which every person who works has. The difference between a worker and a slave is the right to negotiate and to withdraw the labour they sell.
All of this talk about putting up with it because everyone else has to is just wrong and backward thinking. Life is not about equity of misery. Some of the posters on here would be the very same who last century would have told people to shut up about sending kids up chimneys and that women should put up with their lot and do their job in the house and at the kitchen sink and have no need of a vote.
Fact: Jersey teachers have had ONE payrise in the last ten years.
Fact: The States were not asked to give them anything now, they were asked when would there be some compensation for the pay freeze in future better times – answer? Never.
Fact: The alternative was a basket of terms and conditions ALL of which are aimed at improving teaching and learning and are cost negligible. Answer? Not without more cuts in future.
So for those who think this argument is purely about getting money when times are short for all, I hope you have a clearer picture now that it is simply is not the case.
What we have, and what every teacher and parent should be concerned about is that the Sates of Jersey have every intention of devaluing and damaging the level and standard of education on the island.
One other thing, its not just teachers standing up, the rest of the public sector are facing the same things and we will be hearing from them soon enough.
Are people wrong to defend the infrastructure that supports this island?
Are people wrong to be angry about the mismanagement, both from the States with their regressive tax policies and the ultra rich bankers?
Yes, private sector workers are suffering, bank workers on low pay are suffering whilst CEOs are getting £160 million a year salaries, but the only proper and logical response is not to demand equity of misery but to join together as decent human beings with a sense of our own value and fairness and decency and help each other out. Public sector unions will help those with no union to organise.
The island is being mismanaged and run into the floor and the teachers and firefighters have at least got guts enough to speak up and do something about it. It come sto something when the most mild mannered and least militant of workers get to this stage.
If we want an island with essential services that can run and keep us healthy and safe, good education for the kids thn we support the teachers, if we want the whole to go to the dogs then don’t.
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Pauline7 [91] Your right to negotiate? Negotiation is the process by which two parties seek to do business. In this case the Teachers have stated the pay, terms and conditions they require to do their job. The States representing the people of Jersey, many of whom are currently unemployed, have offered a lesser amount and indicated that is all that they can afford. You have the right to refuse this offer and resign. Contrary to some comments this is still a free society and nobody is forcing you to remain a teacher.
But this is not about your right to negotiate, it is the your DEMAND that even more money is taken away from the unemployed and pensioners who are struggling already to meet the ever increasing taxation required to pay your salary, obscene pension scheme and guaranteed job security.
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Check out their pension scheme Im envious of that alone.
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Wow have you lot really not got anything better to do like for exapmle TEACHING!! how many teachers have said they work beyond the hours employed and how many of you have commented on here?!
Its not about putting up with things and everyone has the right to speak up but striking about a payrise bigger than most people get is ridiculous and greedy. If the job isn’t about the money its about the kids the stop wining about money and do the job you are currently employed and PAID to do!!!
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95. Perfectly written. Couldn’t agree more. Thank you!
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Teachers…… ah yes a very palatable Whiskey…. i prefer Old Grouse…
can anyone tell me if they’ve ever used sine, co-sine ( i know i spelt that wrong!!) trig or other bizarre maths? why didnt we ever to get to learn ounces per kilo per pound or tax percentages that the States secrectly shaft us on?
also poker odds would be great (probability?!?) plus how much gst is put in the fat-cats pockets?
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95 Getitright – very well said. Unfortunately there are too many bigots commenting on these threads who believe that teachers are greedy, selfish and unreasonable. This has not been helped by the journalism reporting that it’s all about pay (any reference to terms and conditions has been in the small print towards the end of the articles) – this goes for the firefighters too and will continue with the nurses, paramedics, etc etc etc as time goes on. You can state the facts over and over and those certain posters still won’t listen and will continue to post disparaging comments about teachers (and the rest) – they want the teachers etc to sound unreasonable. Why? I’ll leave it to them to answer that one.
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mojo #89
Well said
I have a niece and her husband who are in exactly the same position, locally born, love their island but are unable to find a position in Jersey. The cushy teachers jobs over here are oversubscribed.
Mick #92 and Toastedteacakes #94
why don’t you take up Mojos suggestion if your teachers and so unhappy with your lot ?
Disheartened#101
When teachers stop being “greedy, selfish and unreasonable” by using pupils and their parents as weapons to gratify their own ends, I promise I will be one of the first to thank them for helping the community as a whole, fight its way out of this recession.
Till then, I’ll leave it to you to answer that one
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Thanks Getitright #95. It was along time coming, but the dispute appears to be about cuts. What would be interesting to know is whether cuts are planned that are out of proportion with the marked fall in the number of pupils.
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PJG I am staggered that after 100+ posts and several weeks of this story you STILL remain totally ignorant of the facts.
Did you not read the JEP last night…that long list of amendments to working conditions that teachers have requested? Half of them won’t cost a penny to implement! Yet still the States won’t even agree to sit down and negotiate them.
As for teachers using parents and pupils as ‘weapons’…at NO point should the planned strike have any effect on either. By withdrawing lunchtime duties we are inconveniencing the STATES, that’s all…as they will have to find someone else to do the work that we are NOT contracted to do.
Your children’s education will proceed as normal, and as usual we will ensure that the island’s youth continue to do extremely well indeed.
Now stop using this thread and the internet (plus all the other posters here) and the English Language as a WEAPON to attack us teachers. It’s not big and it’s not clever.
Mick
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Shade where did you get that idea from? I am led to believe that the number of pupils is rising and that class sizes will need to go up to cope.
I personally view it as being greedy if someone were to use the weapon of “if I don’t get my own way I will go elsewhere”.
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70′s all over again….Teachers there is no money…..get it??
When you joined the profession surely you realised the pay is rubbish?
“those that can, do……those that can’t, teach”
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Adrian #105 queried whether there was a projected decline in pupil numbers. Last year the States published a discussion document on population policy which predicted that, unless there were significant population growth, the fall in number of school pupils would lead to a closure of several primary schools and a reorganisation of secondary schooling. Even with the option of population growth pupil numbers were expected to fall. I have not seen the raw figures.
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I personally view it as being greedy if someone were to use the weapon of “if I don’t get my own way I will go elsewhere”.
So no one else agrees with this comment?
shade I only ask as I have been led to believe at least one school is upping its class size this coming September due to increasing numbers.
What about all the migrants coming in? Won’t their children need schooling? I have now seen a Romanian plated car over here so how long before there is an influx from Romania?
I believe they will work for less than citizens from other countries. Will local businesses be wanting to tap into this market?
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@Larffaminute
Mate to become a teacher requires a good quality degree, a one year’s PGCSE course, Cs+ in English and Maths GCSE, a social conscience…and guts.
I would love to know what was required of you to get your job. And no, ability to operate a calculator does not count for anything.
Mick
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#100 I’ve used all of it (and save for the hyphen you spelt cosine right). Yes, for some jobs you can get software that will do the maths for you (risky though since even the most famous of accounts packages has a bug in it) but frankly having a good understanding of maths can make you better at many things be it sound production, electronics, architecture, graphic design, DIY,… the list is pretty much endless.
No-one says you need a degree in the subject but maybe if people understood that it isn’t actually that hard and that it does have uses in everyday life then they could do things for themselves that they currently pay others to do.
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#106 “those that can, do……those that can’t, teach” Sadly true of some but there are plenty of people out there who love their subject and want to teach it to others. And even when the saying is true it is usually only with those who studied music and art (who may indeed be better than those we see in the media but just not as lucky!), rarely is it true of those who studied English, Math, Geography, Science…
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109 Mick….. LOL!
They don’t use calculators any more as they rely on computers! And they still mess things up!
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While the finance industry was doing very nicely and receiving big bonuses, states employees have had no pay increases over the last 10 years that I have worked. Sometimes cost of living, or 0% during all that time. With absolutely no bonuses or perks ever. No free flights, no free healthcare, no tax free shares, no cheap mortgages, no Friday champagne, no Christmas parties and I could go on forever. Everyone I know in finance still get these benefits and more while I get nothing. They are not affected in any way that I can see by this recession. They are out regularly whilst I can hardly ever afford to go out. They do not have the qualifications that I had to spend 10 years working hard for. They were already earning money whilst I was on student loans. It makes me think I shouldn’t encourage my children to work hard at school, when they can leave with no qualifications and earn more money with no responsibility for peoples lives if they work in finance. And I am at the top end of the experience scale in my job. I would be much better off in the finance industry by now. When I left school it was the people without qualifications who entered finance because they didnt know what else to do. They are now the ones doing well. It worries me that children at school today have no reason to work hard at all. There is also no respect for our states workers, so who would want to work hard and be one. I have worked so much harder than many others I know and it really saddens me to see here how much hatred and disrespect there is for people like me in this island. Lets hope not everybody feels like this or there will be no nurses, doctors, police, paramedics, fire officers, etc to save us all in the future.
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Marie good points. Many of those in finance seem to think they are superior to others because they wear a suit and work in finance.
I agree with you with reference to the academic qualifications in this sector they can often be of a very basic nature.
The scarey thing is we are basically forcing our yongsters into this field as it is now virtually all we have as a means of employment.
I myself would be putting as much clear blue water between finance, and as many of the population as possible before the bubble bursts. Jersey is desperate for trades people and other jobs that actually produce an end product.
Unfortunately with the type of capitalism we have now, it tends to rewards greed, extreme risk and dishonesty IMHO.
What is quantitive easing?
taken from:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing
“Quantitative easing is sometimes described as ‘printing money’, although the central bank actually creates it electronically ‘out of nothing’ by increasing the credit in its own bank account.”
So we have “nothing” which the bank can’t even be bothered to print onto pieces of paper to make it look like money!
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#113 Marie said
“While the finance industry was doing very nicely and receiving big bonuses, states employees have had no pay increases over the last 10 years that I have worked. Sometimes cost of living, or 0% during all that time. With absolutely no bonuses or perks ever. No free flights, no free healthcare, no tax free shares, no cheap mortgages, no Friday champagne, no Christmas parties and I could go on forever.”
And guess what Marie, the contempt which the bonus brigade have for public employees was already ingrained in them long before the recession.
That is why, should there be a return to prosperity, the public sector will still be treated like outsiders by the in crowd.
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It seems to me that many contributers here do not want to have teachers. Many quote their own experience of school, and despite this have managed to succeed in their respective industries. So lets try a different solution: close all schools. After all, we have the internet, we have google and wikipedia, so why do we need schools? Now, that may mean that parents will have to take a little bit of time out of their busy schedules to care for their own children. But think of the cost saving! No schools, no salaries, no maintenance programs, no books – and all you have to do is to give up your salary to educate and care for your own child.
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love it 116!
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“While the finance industry was doing very nicely and receiving big bonuses, states employees have had no pay increases over the last 10 years”
Add small business to the list & generally no holiday either unlike both these bodies!!
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