Teachers ballot on strike action
Saturday 27th March 2010, 3:00PM GMT.
Ron Clooney, of the NASUWT
JERSEY’S teachers will be balloted over industrial action after crisis talks with the States collapsed yesterday.
In a strongly worded joint statement, the NASUWT and NUT unions said that they were ‘bitterly disappointed’ with the government’s stance over the pay and conditions dispute and warned that strike action was now a possibility.
And they said that they had been further angered by the failure of the States Employment Board, Education Minister and director of education to attend yesterday’s meeting.
The unions had hoped that yesterday’s meeting, which was attended by representatives from the SEB’s human resources department, would bring a resolution to the long-running dispute.
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Forgive me repeating myself from a previous thread but this is important:
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2007/02/01/jersey-goes-010-and-its-politicians-line-up-to-quit/
Here we have a tax expert commenting on the introduction of the ‘zero ten’ tax policy. It was written in Feb 2007. The author goes on to predict that Jersey will accrue ‘a financial deficit of maybe £120 million from 2008 onwards.’ Predicted 3 YEARS ago, well before the recession hit.
So all this talk of a deficit because of the recession blah blah is nonsense. The mess we are in and the reason teachers and firefighters are protesting is as follows:
FOREIGN BIG BUSINESS GETS TO OPERATE TAX FREE
A DEFICIT GROWS…so…
CUTS ARE MADE IN THE LOCAL PUBLIC SECTOR
This is an unsatisfactory way to run an island…hence the looming industrial action. SOMEONE has actually got to stand up and protest, even if we teachers/fire fighters do get slagged off for doing so.
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A Teacher – You have my support…
The States say they need to cut jobs and save money to cover the deficit yet only the other day deputy Gorst has found 1.5 million he wants to give to the Doctors! This is typical of all the States Ministers… Say one thing but spend another.
Do any of you realise that your taxs have gone up over the last few years under the 20 means 20 rule? and they want more!
The finance industry caused the world slump and now its causing Jersey to go bust!
Jersey..grow some balls and abolish zero ten now and stop picking on your front line services, then maybe..just maybe we will get though this TOGETHER!
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Comment (2) “maybe we will get through this TOGETHER”
In that case, can I ask that you look after my daughter if the schools are closed due to a teachers strike? So that we can get through this together? Because otherwise myself and thousands of others will have to arrange to be off work for the duration of the strike. The people that will suffer due to your strike are not the ones that are responsible for the recession, we’re all just normal people trying to make ends meet, so how about you lot “grow some balls” as you have so eloquently put, and get on with your jobs.
Whilst I accept you may have valid reasons for wanting to take action, this is blatantly holding the island to ransom. We’re all in the same boat, we’re all in a recession and had to forget about pay rises, many of us are stuck in jobs we don’t like due to the economic downturn. Unlike yourselves and the fire dept and British Airways, the rest of us just get on with it and try to ride out the storm!
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I think teachers pay should be cut, students are doing worse and worse in exams and teachers are being paid more and more!
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Aren’t most of the teaching staff foreign anyway? Fire the lotta of them and hire new ones!
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Tobias the schools will NOT be shutting. teachers will simply be reverting to work-to-rule. In other words, we will only do what our contracts specify.
We are not contractually bound to do playground duty, lunch duties or after school clubs. Hence these will be the first to go…we will simply withdraw the good will previously displayed, leaving the States to arrange some kind of temporary supervision in these instances.
We are a long way off from full-on strike action. The States have plenty of time to return to the negotiating table with a fair offer before this happens.
As for ‘riding out the storm’…the conditions being imposed by the States on teachers’ salaries and working conditions will be in place LONG after the ‘storm’ is over. To extend the metaphor; what’s the point in riding out a storm if you’re left with a sinking boat when the sun eventually comes out?
Mick
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It is very disappointing that in order for people to get what they want they simply call a strike. Unemployment is currently at an all time high, and rather than do what everyone else is doing, which is their job, fire-fighters and teachers are getting a few column inches because they want more money.
Do you seriously think it is not the same in the finance industry? Pay freezes are happening everywhere, not just in your sector, do you see us behaving like little brats?.
Get over it and get on with it.
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Bill 4
That is not correct. Actually record numbers are passing their exams but not because the students have suddenly become much more clever then previous generations but because the exams and fieldwork is very easy.
I wonder……is this because the nanny state has deemed it “unfair” to fail any pupils who are not up to standard for fear of hurting their “feelings” or making them feel “different” and “less adequate” than those who have worked hard to pass??!!
The standards have dropped considerably from when I was at school and now it seems basics such as spelling and grammar are non-existent.
Judging by some of the pupils I see in my office on work experience it is disgraceful and somewhere along the line it seems “text” speak is now accepted as the norm! Also dependency on calculators and computers means that some of these pupils cannot do simple mathematics or solve simple equations.
Personally, in general, I believe kids are dumbing down!
Perhaps that is the ultimate goal of the authorities in order to have more control over a future, less intelligent, population who cannot think for themselves???
These are just my observations.
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@Bill
Doing worse in exams hey? Students in Jersey consistently do better than their UK counterparts.
http://www.thisisjersey.com/2009/08/21/a-fine-set-of-a-level-results/
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Teachers don’t want to pay for the world economic crises. Neither does anyone else. But that is the way that it is. The economic situation has affected us all and public and private sectors alike have not received pay rises. Get real.
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Oh dear Bill. You really haven’t a clue have you. If you really knew anything about our profession you would realise that Jersey has consistently out performed many other juristictions year on year for the past 2 decades. Now tell me where are your statistics for your comments. If you are referring to young peoples attitude getting worse and worse then are teachers really to blame or are we looking at parents who can’t be bothered to parent their children properly and simply find the easiest target to blame.
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Instead of apportioning blame to teachers,nurses or fire fighters,the fact that no ministers showed up for a meeting is symbolic of the value the States of Jersey puts on problem solving.It would be the poor operational HR staff who have to face the wrath ,whilst Mr.Ogley and co. churn out policies.
If this had been a meeting with the Finance sector or an overseas outing,the whole Council of Ministers would have been there.!
Jersey sort out your priorities and values before there is nowhere to hide.
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I don’t blame the teachers for striking, I would if I could, problem is I’m a bricklayer and work in the building trade and my boss would tell me to **** off. If work runs dry I might get a weeks notice for the 8 years I’ve given, then again I might be told on Friday afternoon when I get my wages. I don’t get 3 months paid holiday a year, I don’t get any paid holiday. I don’t get paid if I’m sick and I certainly fon’t get a pension, I get 30 mins not an hour and a half for lunch. If it rains I’m sent home without pay, and if it doesn’t I freeze my b**** off for 4 months of the year.
I’d happily supervise some kids on my lunch break in exchange for a free lunch, beats a cold cheese sarnie anyday. Still serves me right for working in the real world, I’d go to college to improve my prospects but the bloody teachers are striking!
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@ BS Deluxe
The fact that you get illiterate types wondering around your office on work experience says more about the line of work you do (and the kind of kids you subsequently attract) then it does about the education system from which they spring.
Mick
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If our teachers choose to strike the cost is always the kids. My teachers did just this in the 1980′s when I was at school and it had a massive impact on school life and performance for years. They lost the respect of the kids who desperately needed their time and their energies both within the normal school day and through extra curricular activites. The year I took my exams only 1 person in the entire year (200 kids) came away with an o’level pass in History! Needless to say results were better before the strike action. Those kids who are tough to reach and teach now, get worse not better during and after stike action.
None of us live in a bubble, if the rest of us aren’t taking pay rises (I took a voluntary pay freeze this year because those who pay me had pay freezes too) then we all have to bear some of the pain for everyone to get through.
It would be great for the States and other business to have an endless money pot but that’s not the real world. How can anyone who is employed at the moment expect their wages to be isolated from the economy surely our education system teaches none of us are, or did all those discussing pay rises at the present time miss out on economics classes?
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“Teachers don’t want to pay for the world economic crises.”
Neither do I. If I couldn’t repay my mortgage I wouldn’t go bleating to the government and expect them to use tax payers money to reward my incompetence would I? Mind you, now I have thought about it, why not, its all to do with the same thing isn’t it?
As far as I am concerned in business the person that messes up should pay -end of. No way should incompetency be rewarded with tax payers money, talk about rubbing salt in the wounds!!
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cookiecrumble it looks to me as if they couldn’t be bothered to turn up. Would they do the same if it were big business for example?
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Adrian 16 – As far as I am concerned in business the person that messes up should pay -end of. No way should incompetency be rewarded with tax payers money, talk about rubbing salt in the wounds!!
For once we agree, the banks could have covered their losses if they hadn’t paid out such huge sums in bonuses over the years. They knew this was coming as well, I attended a chief execs conference the summer before it all blew and it was disclosed that a top bank approached the American government begging them to close the sub prime loophole but they refused, everyone knew this ws no sustainable but the immediate profits ( and bonuses ) were enormous.
The problem with making the banks pay for their mistake is that only a very few people are responsible, the majority of people working for banks earn £20K ish and are the backbone of the economy. They never got the bonuses and are not responsible although they are also the ones being made redundant and faacing pay freezes to cope with the fallout.
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Tobias…attacking me will not help the situation Jersey finds itself in.
By the way are you in a Union where you work?
If not thats not my problem if you can not stick up for your own working conditions. If you don’t like your job then leave and go work for the Public sector if you believe they are treated much better then you!. Don’t get jealous with other people who have agreed their contracts that are better than you receive.
oh and by the way, i have the balls because i am doing something about the way the States are treating the public. It appears you dont.
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No. 8 BS Why did you not report the inadequate work experience kid to the States School from whence he/she came. They obviously sent you someone not suited to office environment.
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I just hope if teachers attempt a “work to rule”, which is industrial action no matter how fancy you dress it up, that TLS has enough B***S to shut the schools and send the teachers home on no pay.
They can play the WTR bit for as long as they are let, they still receive their full wages and do not suffer, the suffering is aimed “by teachers” at pupils and parents in the hope they will encourage TLS to cave in to their “living in another world” demands.
A lock out will mean teachers are receiving no wages, It wont take long before they see sense when their mortgages fall in arrears.
A short blast of living in the real world may do their communication skills the world of good.
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A Teacher #1
These rules have been placed on Jersey by the EU. Jersey had little choice. In simple terms to make business pay as you suggest would mean Jersey would lose those businesses, who happen to employ thousands of locals who pay tax, leading to a far greater deficit. Anyway, businesses do not consume public services (when was the last time you taught a legal entity?) people do, and therefore it is only fair people pay for them. Remember, you are not the only ones to have had your pay frozen without negotiation for the last couple of years.
A Supporter #2
I agree that the £1.5 million could have been better spent but your comment is irrelevant because the money used for this new scheme cannot be used to top up tax receipts, to do so would be illegal.
P.s. before you two continue to moan about finance, remember it is finance that contributes to the majority of a teachers salary.
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Ex Banker I knew this would end in tears as soon as I read about their ideas years ago. I even warned this would collapse the whole system.
Sorry but anyone who works in a system that espouses this sort of working is risking their jobs and shouldn’t be moaning about it if it happens. They should know better, Joe Pubic isn’t paid to know better and shouldn’t be carrying the can for this as they didn’t even know what was going on in most cases did they?
Unfortunately much of the west has become too dependent on finance now and consequently any hits in this area greatly increase the chance of the whole monetary system collapsing.
Due to right wing ideas, loved by many over here, Britain for example, has very little to fall back on since all its heavy industries have all but been destroyed by the Tories in their rush to modernize Britain IMHO.
To be dependent on shuffling money is not clever IMHO, as it can lead to problems. Don’t say you haven’t been warned!
I’m surprised that the unions haven’t had a chat with the airport firemen. This could all be resolved very quickly in their favour.
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#22 joker
First of all, you are the moaning one who likes to complain about others yet have a go at any one who moans about your industry.
Business’s were paying more tax but now either pay little or no tax at all with 0/10. Are you saying that if 0/10 was not introduced all firms would have left the island? LOL!
Your comment “before you two continue to moan about finance, remember it is finance that contributes to the majority of a teachers salary.”
Let me remind you that finance is 51-52% of Jerseys Income, there are another 48-49% of other forms of income. Please show me where they pay the Majority of teachers wages, i though it was the tax payer! Me and you! not finance.
Don’t tell me not to moan about Finance when you and the others on here moan about Teachers…..Kettle Pot Black.
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22. Joker
“These rules have been placed on Jersey by the EU”
Quite the opposite. The EU recently voiced their dissaproval to zero-ten, which prompted a number of questions in the States to Philip Ozouf.
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“Business’s (sic) were paying more tax but now either pay little or no tax at all with 0/10. Are you saying that if 0/10 was not introduced all firms would have left the island? LOL!”
Let’s get a few facts straight:
1) Most companies (not businesses) in Jersey were exempt companies paying nothing but the exempt company fee.
2) They are investment companies. They do not have shops or employees in the Island. They simply hold assets that are usually managed by 3rd party advisors. They would all have left the Island if they had to pay tax at 10%.
This idea that “foreign big business gets to operate tax free” really is bonkers. They have to pay tax in their own country on their Jersey profits, invariably at a higher rate than they would in Jersey. But if we taxed them in Jersey then we would have to tax every Jersey company and as a result every trust company in the Island would be closed down because nobody would pay 10%pa for the priviledge of having their wealth managed through Jersey.
Finance may be 51-52% of the tax income of the States of Jersey, but what percentage is it of income generated in the Island? Do you really think teachers, nurses, builders and garages do anything other than recirculate the wealth brought into the Island by the 12-13% of the population who are willing to work hard for the common good?
Time the shirkers learnt a lesson from the workers, in my opinion.
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A lock out will mean teachers are receiving no wages, It wont take long before they see sense when their mortgages fall in arrears.
A short blast of living in the real world may do their communication skills the world of good.
Why not crucify them in long rows along the Avenue whilst you’re at it, PJG? That would teach them a lesson and prevent other workers from ever protesting again. The reintroduction of hanging, perhaps? The stocks?
When was the last time you set foot in a modern secondary school and attempted to educate a room of 30 teenagers for an hour, six times a day? (whilst having your lunch and break time taken up with playground supervision)
Trust me my friend, teachers only live in one world, and it is very much THIS one.
Mick
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Adrian would you kindly cease using the acronym IMHO, clearly any statement made by you is your opinion and I would hope that it is honest, therefore no need for the annoying and ever present acronym.
Is this annoying anybody else?
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“Why not crucify them in long rows along the Avenue whilst you’re at it?”
Chillax! You don’t take criticism very well do you? You may be a teacher but you need to take a few lessons in “keeping it real”.
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Yes Mick @ 14……you make the excuses if you want. I work in finance and our business attracts schoolkids for work “experience”. If we were to employ these kids it would be a completely different matter. We would certainly like them to read, write and count…..we are professional and have high net worth clients who pay for the best service.
No doubt we have many students from your very own school…..perhaps even those whom you are responsible for ???
Is this perhaps why so many teenagers / school leavers are now unemployed? They lack the basic skills because education has let them down!
Mick @27
“educate a room of 30 teenagers for an hour, six times a day? (whilst having your lunch and break time taken up with playground supervision)”
So you only work 6 hours a day?
How many teachers are there in your school?
Surely you don’t ALL supervise them together every lunch hour….perhaps share or rotate the responsibility instead?
At a rough guess, schools start at 8:30 and finish at 3:30 = 7 hours. Then you have 1 hour lunch break + 2 short breaks of say 15 minutes (am & pm). This leaves 5.5 hours work (not including any “free” periods you may have. In my profession we would call that “part-time” work
20 Toastedteacakes
“BS Why did you not report the inadequate work experience kid to the States School from whence he/she came. They obviously sent you someone not suited to office environment.”
The school didn’t “send” them…the student requested the experience. The students only helped with non-sensitive work as they were only there for a few weeks. Judging by the numbers of students who lacked the basic skills it just seemed to be a “sign of the times” we live in and perhaps the norm.
I’ve read news reports in national papers condemning the falling standards of education. Apparently even in final examinations poor spelling and grammar is accepted as long as the student can show they “understand” the subject matter!
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There are still people alive today who believe the Dickensian way of doing things is good and benefits everyone due to trickle down effect. Just as there are crocodiles and others left over from the Dinosaur Era.
IMHO is needed at certain times so as to avoid any possible legal issues, I wonder if donald will be able to verify this?
If you give someone the opportunity to take advantage of you they often tend to do so. When money is involved this goes double IMHO.
Mike I believe it is down to who is the master and who is the servant/slave, a relic from the days of old, before unions were thought of as a method to protect those with no power from those with the real power.
Unions should not be required in the 21st century but since they are, it just shows how far we haven’t travelled since the times of Jesus Christ and his teachings.
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#28 Mal Adjusted wrote: “Adrian would you kindly cease using the acronym IMHO…Is this annoying anybody else?”
Yes, Mal, I find the expression overbearingly pompous. Then again I am not too keen on LOLs, ROFLs etc either.
Recently, after a post from our worthy friend which exceeded his previous record for IMHOs, I took the liberty of drawing his attention to it.
Then, bliss, he gave it a rest. However nobody changes for more than a week and soon the affectation reappeared and was soon followed by a variant,IYHO, addressed to another correspondent.
Every cloud has a silver lining, though; Adrian has reduced the number of misuses of the phrase “as per” recently.
Most of the time I find myself understanding his point of view but from time to time he drops himself in it with inconsistencies!
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CLV what did you expect from a 1960s education? It was the time of trying new fangled ideas, and you can see happened can’t you? If you are interested in spelling and punctuation you are in the wrong class here.
IYHO. I was only trying to find out what someone else thought, that was all, but I think it fell on stoney ground.
Are my inconsistences constistent, would you say, or are they inconsistent as well?
Every cloud has a silver lining just as every silver lining has a cloud!
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BS Deluxe, seeing as you’re so interested in a normal teacher’s working day:
8.30 – 8.45 staff briefing
8.45 – 9am form time
6 hours teaching with two 15 min breaks and one 30 min lunch break (some of these lost to break duty)
3.15-3.30 form time
3.30-4.30 after school clubs
4.30 onwards marking, planning, phoning parents, writing reports, detentions etc
Might want to rethink your ’5.5 hours working day’ estimate there mate.
Mick
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Mick #27
“Why not crucify them in long rows along the Avenue” (the five mile roads longer)
Another over the top reaction from a teacher, who suddenly realises that even benevolent employers can have teeth !
Mick if teachers carry on directing their efforts to hurting innocent pupils and parents they will lose the publics good will and action such as I have suggested “will happen”.
Remember do not start a fight unless you are willing to take a few punches.
Work to rule is a cowards way out, and I hope TLS will see that.
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A Supporter #24
My thanks to donald pond #26 who has saved me time explaining 0/10 to you. The bottom line is without it, or similar, Jersey’s economy would be in trouble.
One area I’d reiterate, seeing as you brought it up, is how much finance actually brings in. Yes finance generates a little over 50% of Jersey’s income but you failed to compare it to what Jersey’s other industries bring in which is a more telling benchmark. Retail is the closest achiever to finance in terms of income generation for the Island and it produces 11% of the income finance does. So for every £100 income generated by the finance industry only £11 is brought in by retail. Every other industry brings in even less and in fact costs more to provide.
Another beauty of the finance industry is that its local workers are relatively well paid meaning they do not require social security top ups and pay their fair share of tax. Compare that to finance’s nearest competition retail which not only generates 9 times less but its employees are often subsidised by various top ups, low effective tax rates and other social benefits such as below market rate rent effectively reducing the income retail provides.
So I’ll say again, finance pays the majority of teachers salary, and that’s a fact. Without it a lot of teachers would be lucky to have a job, never mind complaining about salary freezes.
John Smythe #25
Semantics. Yes Jersey developed 0/10 (which has subsequently been questioned) but why do you think it was brought into play in the first place, for fun or due to EU stance?
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Adrian
You bad bad boy, you are annoying Mal Adjusted and C Le Verdic.
Keep it up.
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A Supporter #24
Oh and for the record, contrary to what you think I’m not moaning about teaching as an ‘industry’. It’s obvious our society is founded on the quality of our education. I’m moaning about a few individuals who think they are the only ones suffering a bit egged on by a union whose sole objective is to generate income and power by stirring up situations out of proportion. I also happen to have friends who are teachers and obviously they’d take home a better package and more money (who wouldn’t?) but none of them moan like some on here.
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I’ve looked up Ron Clooney on the internet. He lives in Southampton. Since when does a union official in Southampton have the Island’s best interests at heart? No doubt he would like nothing more that the finance industry to crumble and Jersey to become the equivalent of Anglesey.
So let’s ignore him.
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No. 30 BS Deluxe The student who requested to work in your office must have heard that it was easy doddle work. Now on the other hand, teachers really work hard for their money.
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Toastedteacakes No. 30 BS Deluxe The student who requested to work in your office must have heard that it was easy doddle work. Now on the other hand, teachers really work hard for their money.
Not wishing to be pedantic but I feel I must point out the obvious typo in your post, I believe you meant to say “Now on the other hand, teachers rarely work hard for their money”
As for Mick’s description of a teacher’s working day, do all teachers supervise lunch hour every day? do they all manage after school clubs daily? or are these on a rota. I work 0730 – 1700 with half an hour for lunch. I work Saturday mornings if we are busy and I do it for single time ( or look for another job ) I don’t get sick pay, holiday pay, pension or 3 months off with full pay every year.I didn’t get a pay rise last year, won’t get one this year and would be surprised to see one next.
Still I have a job and am lucky to have it.
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@Builder’s Labourer
I have a feeling that I could handle working on a building site. Physically demanding I’m sure, but I’m sure I could handle it.
Let’s see YOU teaching mathematics or Spanish or History to a class of 30 teenagers for an hour (including planning, marking and follow-ups for bad behaviour). Five times a day. Every day of the week.
Fancy it? (btw you’ll need to study for four years of your life beforehand)
Mick
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No. 41 Builders Labourer You should’ve respected your teachers whilst at school, then you would’ve become a builder rather than a builder’s labourer.
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Yeah but to be honest, no one really cares about a little island called Jersey when record numbers are failing the UK.
Also, Guernsey’s better.
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BS Deluxe@ 30
I happen to know that my wife leaves for work as a teacher at 0700 every morning and is at work for 0705. I am lucky if I see her again before 1700. During those 10 ( thats ten, not five and a half ) she is lucky if she gets the time to have even a glass of water let alone anything to eat! So thats 50 hours a week straight of the bat!
On top of that, add the time she spends at home working on lesson plans designed to keep school interesting as well as educational for the pupils. This alone probably runs into double figures in terms of hours ‘work’ so lets call that 60 hours a week so far.
Further to that you can add the time SHE has to take out of HER time to stay after school to supervise detentions…..maybe one hour a week.
So, to sum it up, adding a few hours for marking and things that crop up unexpectedly, I would estimate that my wife averages a 60-65 hour week…..every week!
The thing I think makes me most annoyed is that the vast majority, if not ALL of you on here that think teachers have it easy, WOULDN’T but more importantly COULDN’T do the job yourselves! I couldn’t and I am not ashamed to say it!
How many of you have to deal with verbal abuse at work knowing that all that will happen to the offender is that they will, at worst, be sent home for the day and be back to do it again the following day? How many of you have to deal with that verbal abuse OUTSIDE of work hours with absolutely NOTHING you can do about it?
How many of you would be in good jobs earning good money if it were not for the hard work your teachers did when you were long home and sat watching tv? How many of you would have dropped out of school if it hadn’t been for that one teacher that put in the extra time to get you to even finish school?
Oh and as for the holidays…..i think you’ll probably find that the vast majority of teachers spend some of that time doing marking, planning events, doing new displays in the classrooms etc.
How about you look at the job in detail, see if you could do it yourself and THEN post your comments!
Not such a 27.5 hour week now is it?
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Mick
Please make up your mind. Do you take 5 or 6 lessons a day?
post 34 “6 hours teaching”
post 42 “Five times a day”
So your hours (at a push) are 8:30 until 3:30 with “two 15 min breaks and one 30 min lunch break” = 6 working hours!
Within these 6 working hours you have 45 mins briefing and form time plus “6 hours teaching “????????
I hope you are not a maths teacher!!
I think your reluctance to explain the lunch/am & pm break supervision rota speaks volumes. I deduce that the WHOLE teaching fraternity DOES NOT do this EVERY day and perhaps even share it within a rota system. I should also imagine that NOT ALL teachers have an obligation for “3.30-4.30 after school clubs” and certainly if they did it would NOT BE EVERY DAY.
Lets face it……you have a relatively easy life as a teacher !!!!
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42 Mick – have a feeling that I could handle working on a building site. Physically demanding I’m sure, but I’m sure I could handle it.
Really, you could handle anything from a 45 to a 70 hour week for single time ( that’s £10 an hour ) no pay rise last year, this or next. No holiday pay, sick pay, pension. Freezing your ar*e off 4 months of the year and being spoken to like a dog by your boss and your customers, being rained off without pay.
Mate you can’t even handle being given an above inflation pay rise in a year when nobody else got one and a guaranteed one of same for next year. The rattle’s been out the pram so many times it’s now atached to elastic.
I’ve seen countless people comment on this forum stating how good states employees have it and giving examples and you people just don’t get it do you.You are removed from reality and exist in a bubble.
As for 4 years study for a lifetime on the gravy train, it’s 3 years to be a carpenter ( and they have to work after they qualify )
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I wrote this on the fireman’s thread but that has fallen off the front page and this is just as reelevant to the teachers dispute so I’m saying it again here.
We are a small Island and we have to live within our means. We cannot run a structural deficit, because nobody will fund it. There is already a huge amount of uncertainty about the Public Employees Contributory Retirement Scheme (PECRS) and the level of the unfunded liability relating to it.
What we need to do, above everything else, is live within our means. Because if we do not, and if the finance industry drops in profitability over the coming decades, then in 10 or 20 years time we will run out of money. There will be nothing left – no pensions, nada.
At the moment it is anticipated that we will be are running a deficit of around £50-60m. Ron Clooney of the union doesn’t care about this. He doesn’t care if the Island is bankrupt in 10 years time. The firefighters don’t seem to care about this: they see money being wasted by the States and think they will have some to. I can’t blame them.
But this is not a class war. This is a question about how do we control public finances. We can’t run a deficit like the UK because we can’t issue bonds so all this talk of investing to help us through the recession is inapplicable. What we need to do is get back to having a balanced budget. That means cutting back on all sorts of spending unless it can be shown to pay for itself.
It also may mean increasing taxes. But the States needs to first control expenditure. And wages are a big part of that. In the UK many government departments are going to see 25% cuts in real terms over the next parliament. All 3 prospective chancellors agree on that.
That is the immediate future – belt tightening on a scale that none of us have ever seen before. We need to get used to it now. Which is why it is vital that the unions in Jersey – who have never been anything other than obstructive (remember the fuss and the strikes about moving workers from the harbour to bellozane) realise that they are part of our society and that whatever money they can get for their members today they are stealing from all of our futures.
How much do you think your pension will be?
How much support do you think your kids will get in higher education?
What will the hospital look like in 2025?
Jersey had money coming out of its ears and the idiots in charge between 1980 and 2000 wasted it. Now we need to keep things in check or face a future that few of us would find acceptable.
But that’s why we are in this mess: that is what the credit crunch was. An inability to say no to instant gratification even if you had no idea how to afford it. The lesson we need to learn is simple: only spend what you can afford. We can’t afford public sector pay rises so we shouldn’t give any. Simple as that.
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#46 “Lets face it……you have a relatively easy life as a teacher !!!!”
From my observations during my long employment in secondary education, I would say that capable, well organised teachers had a relatively easy job. They certainly appeared to be the least stressed.
Incapables and incompetents, of which there were quite a few, endured a life of living hell.
There were also one or two well skilled, apparently incompetents, who managed to get away with doing the bare minimum because they made sure that they were never asked to do much in case they c*cked up.
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@Builder’s labourer
Mate I wouldn’t do ANYTHING for 10 pounds an hour, especially in the conditions you describe.
I suggest that you try and get another job. Why not get some training elsewhere? You write well and are clearly an impassioned chap; seems a waste for someone like you to spend his time in such an undervalued manner.
Alas to do so you will need to come into contact with us bubble-living gravy-trainers, which I am sure will sting a little.
A tip: don’t let on that you despise the person trying to help you move up the educational ladder (as you so clearly despise us teachers) and you’ll probably get more out of them.
On a more general note; just because your working conditions are so poor should not prevent other professions from doing their best to improve THEIR working conditions. Would you prefer it if we teachers were paid £10 an hour and had to teach in the rain? Would that make you feel better?
Were you and your professional brethen to form yourself into some sort of protest group in an attempt to improve the quality of your working conditions I would be behind you all the way. Unfortunately you seem simply resigned to it…and thus things will undoubtedly stay pretty much the same for you.
Mick
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No. 47 Builder’s Labourer Yes, but carpenters earn money during their 3-year apprenticeship. A student teacher earns nothing at university.
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teachers should go on strike then all these people who think teachers are so worthless will have to look after their own children for a whole day! They won’t like that very much! They might realise what hard work children are.
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Kids may be a pain, but not a patch on stroppy demanding clients, believe me. But this is not about the good and bad things of each job. Every job has its rewards and sticking points and are all hard work in their own way. Just consider the world economic crisis which we are all paying for. It is a fact, sad as it maybe, that ALL sectors of the community are now suffering and generally there are ZERO pay rises. I’ll say that again. ZERO pay rises. It is now about equality and sharing the pain I’m afraid. Arise from slumber and inhale the aroma of genus coffea.
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Just as well that schools encourage PTA’s. At the school that I am a parent at, the teachers do not attend PTA events, either fundraising for the school or social events, because ‘you can’t expect them to work beyond their hours’. Maybe we should take the ‘T’ out.
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@G&T
Hmmm….let me guess…does your child attend a fee-paying school by any chance?
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donald “But this is not a class war.”
No but its an economic one where the strongest prevail over the weakest. So much for capitalism eh?
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Sav @ 55.
Hmmm.. I wonder why you think my child attends a fee-paying school…….. because you are guessing incorrectly. My child attends a States Primary School.
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I have just read the comments and am gobsmacked! I am a teacher and yes we have good pay but we bl**dy work for it.
In response to a lot of questions that seem to be asked over and over again. Some people will have 5 lessons a day and some will have 6 it depends what school you teach in we don’t all start at the same time and we don’t all have the same amount of lessons. Where i teach we have 6 lessons with 2 30 mins breaks. I have a form every morning and have to do 4 duties a week. I would love to see some people who work in offices teach for a day it is the most tiring job every especially if you are like me and teach a physical subject! you have to keep 30 students on task for 50 mins at a time you can’t stop and have a quick look at your internet or have a natter with the person next to you!
personally i am at school from 8 till 5 everyday and do not have lunch breaks as i have lunch clubs every lunch time and everyday after school and i come in, in holidays for rehearsals which may i add we have a lot of work to do in the holidays.
If my job wasn’t so rewarding then i would go for a nice office job where i can turn my computer off at 5 and forget about work for the night and not have to plan my lessons for the next day!
In regards to the comments about students not doing well in their exam results then you should be looking at the students not necessarily the teachers. You can’t teacher a student who is not willing to learn but you can try and that it what we do. Personally i haven’t experience this as my exam results were 100% last year so none of my students got below a grade c and no i do not work in a private school.
all states employees deserve the pay increase they were promised last year but we have unions that are fighting this for us so don’t blame teachers for this decision.
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