Mother pays for her son’s crime
Monday 12th April 2010, 3:00PM BST.
The Royal Court building
THE Royal Court has issued a stark warning to parents of teenagers who commit crimes by ordering a mother to pay financially for her son’s bad behaviour.
On Friday the Royal Court ordered the woman, whose son had admitted receiving stolen goods, to pay £250 of a £500 surety that was imposed after the 16-year-old got into trouble with the law last year. And she was warned that if her son reoffends again within six months, she will have to pay the remaining £250.
The 16-year-old admitted criminally receiving goods which had been stolen from a house in St Saviour in the middle of the night on 2 December and resisting arrest on the same occasion.
The offences, committed while he was drunk, put him in breach of a probation order and community service order and breached the surety put up by his mother in May last year. He was sentenced to 12 months’ probation and ordered to complete 120 hours’ community service in addition to the 20 hours that were left of the previous order.
His co-defendant, also a boy of 16, admitted breaking and entering the house in St Saviour to steal the goods, which included a mobile phone and £250 in cash. The offences also put him in breach of a community service order. The boy, who had been on remand at Greenfields since his arrest, was given 12 months’ youth detention.
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About time that parents were made accountable for their kids behaviour. Lets see more of this please, starting with the thugs getting drunk til the early hours being frog marched home and their parents fined on the spot.
I can’t wait for some of the parents to post saying it’s not their fault, whose then if not yours, the school? Parents are responsible for their children how can they not be, I’d prefer to see them lynched but a fine is a good start.
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Seems his mother has been made the scapegoat for his behavior.
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Hear hear ‘Mulvie Le Phew’!
As a parent one totally agrees with your sentiments. One’s own offspring were kept in line by regular thrashings administered at the first hint of insubordination or bad behaviour.
Indeed one wonders if the principle of parental responsibility could not be further extended.
Perhaps the authorities could introduce a ‘three strikes and out’ policy, whereby a third conviction would automatically entail the sterilization of not merely the offender, but also his parents, and possibly his siblings if they are found to have criminal records.
One believes such a measure would work wonders in curtailing the kind of anti-social behaviour one reads of so often and has much to commend it.
Proud Jerseyman
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If you produce them, you are responsible for them.
There is no necessity to have children if you are not prepared to bring them up properly – contraception is readily available and free
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What kind of unsober thinking lies behind this state of affairs..? how is this boy going to learn..? for what he is being taught is abandonment of responsibility for self..the very thing he has offensively displayed….The law has played right into his hands,he must be laughing his head off.”I can do what I want and am untouchable,my parents will have to pick up the tab.why not let the full weight of his actions fall on him alone.we need a proper Bootcamp.where social conscience and discipline are taught. not this wishy washy Guardian reader nonsense.
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I fully support this approach when it comes to CHILDREN. But at 16 years old????. Surely they are young adults, can enter the work-place without a chaperone, vote, have sex, pay taxes….and be expected to behave like adults ( alright…young adults). Many of these youths are likely to be from single parent families….probably no father figure in their lives.How is a mother supposed to control a headstrong young man almost fully grown. Looks more like a money making scam by the legal fraternity than a balanced approach to youth offending.
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It is right that the mother should pay for her son’s crime. Badly behaved boys are normally the result of badly behaved parents.
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I know there will be those who find this hard to believe, as I am a has-been cop. However, I am not sure I share the sentiments of some on this discussion board. You can’t always blame the parents. I am sure many will agree with me, it isn’t easy bringing up teenagers.
At 14 / 15, I was bigger and stronger than both my Mother and Father and for a short while I caused them problems – thankfully I didn’t get too out of hand.
A lot is to do with peer pressure and poor role models. I have seen youngsters whose parents did all they could to teach them how to behave, suddenly go off the rails because of kids they mixed with in school. We shouldn’t stereotype people.
I do agree however, that some parents lack parenting skills and need a kick up the behind, or some sort of training to get their kids back into line.
Don’t forget many people object to children receiving corporal punsihment nowadays and disipline at school has become steadily worse too. No; it’s too easy to blame parents. I feel our liberal society has a lot to do with declining standards in the behaviour of youngsters.
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Well she should be made pay it all back and he should also be given community service.
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Truthseeker …
The boy is going to learn when his mother starts taking responsibility for her juvinile son, including teaching him the pro’s and con’s of right and wrong, thereby teaching him responsibility. I would like to believe that mum wouldn’t be too pleased about “picking up the tab” and would metre out her own form of punishment. Kids this age generally do not earn a salary and are unable to pay back the value of goods stolen. His punishment remains community service and his mum’s to paying the bill – this is forcing a parent to take responsibility for their child – isn’t this what eveyone wants?
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I do agree with Mulvie, but I can understand people’s concerns about what happens when their child is 16, physically bigger than them etc.
A girl posted on here a while ago now about her brother being trouble, the difference was that her mother clearly did care, the mother had turned her own son into the police and had begged for help from the police because she knew the situation was escalating. That kind of mother is to be applauded. But that is not your average badly behaved 16-year old’s mother, most probably don’t even know what their child is up to.
Unless the child works then their food, and the roof over their head, are being paid for by the parents, they are really still a child and the parents are responsible for them. If the parents are left with no option but to kick them out then so be it. The shock of real life can be what some of these kids need. Of course, some just need genuine, unconditional love, and regardless of what their parents think, they aren’t getting it!
Still, education is key. Parents need to realise that they can lose their child’s respect in the first few years of the child’s life and it is hard to get it back. My parents being upset was enough to knock me back into line because I respected them and hated upsetting them.
What Blue Knight says about physical discipline is also true, but again, if you are consistent from birth then other methods can work just as well, even on children with difficulties. People who adopt are completely banned from using any form of phsyical punishment, yet they can turn around children who have had an atrocious start in life.
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I would just like to say well said No 8 Blue Knight. Thankfully my teenage son has not gone off the rails so far and i am a single parent and not by choice. I have two children and i have always taught them right from wrong but i hate being labelled a bad mother seeing as my husband is no longer around. I would like to think that my son will make the right choices when he is out with his friends but i cannot hold his hand 24/7. I know that he does suffer from peer pressure on occassions and so far has not bowed down to these other youths.
I also know of a lady who has a troubled teenager who is always in trouble, and yes she is on her own with him but that is due to a berevement not divorce. She has tried her best with him and is a quiet lady who would bend over backwards to help everyone but unfortunately her son is not that great.
I just wish people would stop and consider all facts before making sweeping statements and condeming parents. We all have ideas of what our ideal lives would be then we have the real world. Society is partially to blame as we are no longer allowed to smack children, give proper punishments in schools etc etc not to mention that when you see a group small or large of teenagers most automatically think they are up to no good when in fact all they may have done is bump into their friends and are having a chat.
Yes there are bad kids but there are also a lot of good ones, just the same as the older generations before them. I do feel however that whoever it is that has committed the crime must pay the price themselves. Yes parents should be responsible for their children but please stop asuming that the parents have not tried to take their offspring right from wrong.
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Fine the mother and the son – I say. If the son has no money then let him work in an old people’s home or hospital emptying bed pans or washing dirthy sheets. Soon make him realise that his actions have consequences.
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When i was a teenager i,did not give a stuff about the police or what the courts could throw at me , i was more scared of what my dad would do to me if the police came knocking on the door, the thought of that kept me out of trouble , in some cases strong parental control does work not expensive court procedings .
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Probation (again)? Community Service ? Not allowed to name them ?
Has the justice system gone completely insane?
These are repeat offenders and not victims of society!
Lock this scum up and get them off our streets.
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#8 Blue Knight & #12 BPMJ
Couldn’t agree more. What does concern me is that they top up his community service. Does his previous offence not show that community service isn’t really doing its job. If the mother is irresponsible then fair enough fine her the £250, but give the other £250 to the son. See if that makes him think twice instead of adding another 120 hours to his existing community service, which seems to be having little effect if he’s re-offending.
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Some harsh words have been posted on this site and whilst I am usually one for zero tolerance, I believe teenagers need to be responsible for their own behaviour and we shouldn’t always blame parents.
I wonder if some of those who have contributed to this discussion ( God’s Mentor, Mulvie Le Phew, Overpopulated et al.) have actually been parents?
I take on board what Leah Holmes says about physical punishment and would only resort to this method sparingly. I brought up two children and I rarely had to use physical force, but sometimes it was the only way to sort out their misbehaviour.
How else do you prevent a teenager from trashing your home when they are full of hormones or testoserone?
What do they say, spare the rod and spoil the child?
As for God’s Mentor, Mulvie Le Phew, Overpopulated etc – let he (she) who is without sin, cast the first stone.
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Yes the mother / parents should be accountable for their children’s behaviour, and if there is a financial penalty, yes the parents should pay immediately. But the law should go one step further, these young criminals should be ordered to pay their parents back with working there dept off, may be with street cleaning with big logos on saying youth in detention and attend behaviour classes were it is not a game to waste some time and a curfew to the house for however long seen fit.
A tougher stance is needed with schools, authorities and PARENTS working together all talking from the same book giving the same message where no bad behaviour, foul language will tolerated what’s so ever, children will listen to their elders and treat them with the respect they deserve. This has been lost since the parents of the 80′s when this rot started.
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One only has to read the article. This is not a one off by a normally well behaves boy.
Probation, community service, Parents posting sureties, warnings, they all appear to have failed.
IMO this is one of the handful that just don’t care. He is destined to grow up into an outcast from society, his family will be tarnished by his behaviour. If he has siblings they will no doubt be tarred with same brush and have trouble getting responsible jobs.
We are letting this kid and his family down, he needs putting back on the straight road, only one thing will work with this (I stress) minority.
CORPORAL PUNISHMENT.
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No. 8 Blue Knight I can not agree with you, children absorb what they experience at home. If the parents/guardians are decent individuals, then the child will grow up decently and will not be influenced by bad behaviour from others.
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If the parents are to be held accountable for repeat offences then so should the judge, social services and all those involved in the legal system. The sentences handed out are a joke and do nothing to deter repeat offenders. Many of these youngsters need help but instead repeatedly get fobbed off with a warning or community service. It takes a very serious offence, normally involving an innocent member of the public having their life ruined before things are taken seriously but by then it is too late for both the victim and the offender.
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#17 Agreed, I’m not against smacking (with very strict criteria on what that is) but since Governments want to make it illegal there need to be other methods.
#18 Totally agree about the schools and the authorities being tough, but it’s because of the cries of parents that they have become more lenient. It is parents that have removed authority from teachers, and, in some cases, from the authorities. Rather than using logic and only tackling cases where power had been abused parents took it too far and removed the power altogether, now they are reaping what they sowed. I bet the parents that wanted the right to discipline removed from teachers are the same ones now wondering why teachers aren’t doing more to discipline kids.
Sometimes we really do get what we asked for.
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No 20 – That is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard! My brother and I were both brought up by hard working, decent parents, however, he ended up in trouble for drugs etc, and I didn’t. You cannot blame parents alone, it may be the case in some families, but not all, and you shouldn’t generalise. I am a single parent, and hope that this fact does not mean my child will automatically grow up into a troublemaker!
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Toastedteacakes # 20. Then we will agree to disagree. Bringing up children isn’t an exact science and your view on life is over simplistic -sorry that’s just my view as a father of two and retired police officer with over 30 years of experience in dealing with a lot of juvenile crime. I am sure there are others who will agree with me.
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Parents should lead by example, ‘do as I do not as I say’. No amount of discipline will ever improve a child if they sense hypocracy.
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Toastedteacakes # 25. What absolute bunkum. Yes lead by example, but adults are allowed more freedoms by law, than juveniles (eg. consumption of alcohol. Furthermore parents don’t do homework, so how can it be do as I do?
To reiterate bringing up children isn’t an exact sccience and life isn’t as simple as you suggest.
I have come into contact whith juvenile offenders whose parents were decent people who had done their very best to bring up their children properly – not every case is the same.
Thats why we have social workers to help and given parents advice.
Society is as much to blame as anything else as I have seen over 40 years of lowering standards in behaviour. In recent times much of this may be due to watching violent videos, or playing violent interactive games, normalising violence, vandalism and even theft.
As I said before, let he / she who is without sin cast the first stone – I know I wasn’t perfect and can say, “There but for the grace of God, go I”.
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10 Pandoras’s hope….”Isn’t this what everybody wants”….No quite frankly No…people should be responsible for themselves ..not their parents…there are well behaved kids who have no parents at all..yet still are responsible.I know some Barnado’s kiddies who never got in trouble and went on to build good lives..without any namby pamby excuses for failure provided by misguided adults.
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Democracy???
The Senior civil servants who run the island have you fooled into thinking that we are independent from the UK,not so, Jersey is a Left wing Socialist state,a puppet run island.
Jersey will change her allegiance when the Tories return to power.My point is we are no way living in a democratic society when some one who has done nothing in terms of breaking any laws gets found guilty in a DEMOCRATIC court and sentenced to fines and also a criminal record for someone else’s own doings?
What would of happened if the 16 year old killed someone?
would the mother of stood trial?I don’t think so,the attorney general would look a fool in the worlds media and again Jersey would be a laughing stock.
So when will the law lords bring in a curfew for the population?
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Justice – I can not agree with you. Parents are responsible for their children. Old values/morals are disappearing and not for the better. At one time, a child did not get the key to the door until they were 21 years old.
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Toastedteacakes your comment is correct, when I was a child/teenager my mother was always at home when I finished school and at weekends. However times have changed and sadly some parents have no choice but to give young teenagers a key. Some family’s are forced to work all the hours they can get because of the high prices etc that a family faces in Jersey. My personal opinion is that the states should look at how they can help to reslove this issue by supporting familys financialy including home owners and middle income earners, parents might then be able to ensure that they were home more, instead of ensuring that they have enough money to cover the mortgage, rent, bills and to put food on the table. I do appreciate that this might not be the issue in some cases. I just hope that I and other parents can afford to keep working part time for as long as needed, as the cost of living in Jersey keeps rising and the purse strings are going to get tighter for familys.
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29.Toastedteacakes – How many kids do you have?? I assume you must have a few as you seem to spout quite a lot of knowledge on the subject.
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TB – I have commented twice on this thread. My opionion is based on what I feel is the moral obligation of any parent.
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HOORAY! Zero tolerance works.
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You’ve got to laugh, eh?
Until now everyone was saying ” Make the parents accountable”, “Fine the parents” etc.
Now that it has happenned it’s “Poor parent, how will the kid ever learn”.
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No26 Only thing with these parents who have done so well bringing their kids up is that you cannot always tell from the outside. There are some very respectable people out there who will be mortified if their kid does anything wrong and will discipline the child for it, but sometimes these are the very same people who barely spend a few minutes a day with their child.
Children need to feel wanted and loved, and if they have a good relationship with their parents (respectable parents that is) they are less likely to do wrong.
No34 I’m still with ‘make the parents accountable’ but that doesn’t mean letting the kid off!
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Well done !!!! Let this be an ONGOING EXAMPLE so that the streets of St Helier can be at least a bit better ,St Helier is pure rubbish currently..kids on the street,parents in the pub,how lovely !!About time we start seeing more like this happening,EDUCATION starts at home NOT in school !!!!
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No 31 Having kids yourself isn’t all that relevant, after all, some people choose not to have kids because their kids would have to grow up with the kids of people who simply shouldn’t ever have had any! Child development is predictable, and most bad behaviour is due to those very simple and obvious needs not being met by the parents, only occasionally is there some rare issue that affects the child’s behaviour. If you took your average badly behaved child and asked about its upbrining it’s not going to take a genius to work out what need the parents failed to bother about.
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No. 36 Lola – I agree with you. Parents need to get their priorities right. If you bring a child a child into the world, you should be there for that child and not spend all day and night drinking without a care and then putting the blame for the child’s bad behaviour onto the teachers and social services.
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#38 Should add to that, if your kid is taken into custody by the police it should be mandatory that one of the parents is present while the child is interviewed, too many just tell the police to bring in a child protection officer instead! Pathetic.
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No.39 You are absolutely right.
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