Teachers’ action: School closures likely
Tuesday 25th May 2010, 2:59PM BST.
Education director Mario Lundy
SOME schools are likely to close when teachers launch industrial action next month, Education said today.
The department has revealed that some schools could shut during the one-day strike on 17 June, and could close for at least lunchtimes during the general industrial action which will start on 11 June. Teachers’ unions have now provided the department with a list of how many union members attend each school.
Department officials are now assessing the likely level of impact at each site. Mario Lundy, Education director, said: ‘The impact on individual schools will very much depend on the number of union members it has.
‘Each head teacher has been asked to come up with a contingency plan and we are meeting them this week to discuss the plans.’
Read the full story in the Jersey Evening Post. Click here for subscription details. Individual editions are also available online.
Travel
To, from and around the Island
Airport Arrivals & Departures
Harbours Arrivals & Departures
Bus Information & Timetables
JOIN US ON...
Facebook and Twitter
Follow us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
Got a story? Get in touch
KIT 4 CLUBS
Win a share of £10,000
2012 is the year of the London Olympics and to celebrate this great event the Jersey Evening Post, in association with sponsors Ogier is giving all sporting clubs a chance to win a share of £10,000.
This is Jersey
Jersey Evening Post
Useful links
Well at least it’s not going to affect the kids eh Mick?
Meantime scores of jobs to go at Jersey Post, thankfully they exist on another planet to the teachers who are unnafected by anything happening back here.
“We just want more money, we’re not qualified to supervise children” said a teacher who asked to remain nameless.
Report abuse
Bad show teachers, as someone who is going to train to be a primary teacher I understood and supported you, but now it looks like you really have put your own needs over that of your students, who are totally innocent in all of this.
You made promises that the strikes would not affect the students and their learning and now it is. How can you expect anyone to support you now? I suggest you have a MAJOR rethink.
Rev
Report abuse
I thought that a big part of a teacher’s job was to care about the kids? I know that they must have it hard but surely this would be detrimental to the students starting GCSEs in September?! Ok, they have problems but they should reconsider their actions if it will affect a young person’s future.
Report abuse
Selfish.
Report abuse
Why not just increase class sizes on those days and allow the good teachers who don’t strike to have bigger classes where they can have fun lessons that are off the normal schedule. Like we used to have when it snowed and only half the teachers made it to school.
Those teachers who have to take the bigger classes could be paid a daily bonus for the extra hassle of bigger classes.
This bonus could be paid for out of the wages not paid to the teachers striking as they don’t get paid for strike days.
It would also make some teachers think twice about striking.
Report abuse
There are exams on that day. GCSE and A Level according to my kids. What will happen to them if the schools are shut?
Report abuse
I have to admit that I am surprised that strike action is occuring in the middle of GCSEs. I would have personally preferred it if action had been left until after the exam period when schools were minus Year 11 and the strain on students and other staff was lessened.
To my knowledge the only exams on 17th June are Religious Studies and Geography; I can only assume that there will be sufficient staff still available to moderate.
Report abuse
It is unfortunate that the states of jersey has allowed this action to progress as it has. The states employment board should have met with the teachers to resolve this issue many months ago. Unfortunatly TLS, the states employment board and the COM have made this action unavoidable by not bothering to talk to the teachers representatives. While schools may close on this day of action I have been told that any student sitting a GCSE exam on that day will be able to do so with no disruption.
This is a sad time for many members of the Public sector who have for many years worked in the hope that eventually some semblence of order and sense will prevail in our elected officials.
Mismanagement of the island has led us to this point and I am sure that soon,other public sector employment groups will follow suit and take a stand against the poor financial mismanagement of this island.
Industrial action of any kind is always a last resort and unfortunatly the powers that be have led us directly too it. This is not some knee jerk reaction by the teachers but the end of a year of struggle to get someone with authority to negotiate with teachers representatives.
While teachers understand that or this one day some parents may be inconvenienced and pupils may miss some learning, they also understand that the cuts that the COM are suggesting in pudlic services are not acceptable. Tha t these cuts will harm the education of the students not help it.
Removing the right for students to learn musical instruments, cutting the funding for languages, removing the ability for teacher to professionally develop so that the standard of teaching continues to improve. Increasing class sizes, reducing subject specialists and top slicing education budgets so that some subjects will have difficulty purchasing the equipment needed to teach their subject.
Industrial action is not what any teachers wanted, it is all we have left to try and bring this dispute to a resolution. Teachers representatives as we have been told many times are ready at any time to sit down and resolve this issue with the SEB. all they have to do is actually show up and negotiate.
Report abuse
Don’t see a problem close all the schools, there probably will not be any jobs for the kids in the future anyway! ! !
Report abuse
Examinations will go ahead as normal on the day of the strike and will be fully staffed by non-teaching staff. These students will not be affected by the strike as they are already on study leave.
Thank you Jdg for your concise and factual post.
Report abuse
There are exams in Chemistry, RE, D&T, Latin, health and social care, Re, Geography and that is only looking at two local school’s web sites. The unions said this would not take place during the exams. Crazy.
Report abuse
I back the teachers, I know a few, and they do far more in their own time than people think. In my experience people who are truly on a nice earner keep very quiet and don’t draw attention to themselves, like many of the unknown civil servants who’s role is unknown even by their colleagues, The arbitration process takes 2 willing sides, and from what I’ve heard Le Sueur didn’t have the decency to turn up to meetings scheduled with Union officials who had travelled from the UK specifically to meet him and his cronies. Respect goes a long way
Report abuse
@Ben
To be fair…one exam requires no more than 3 invigilators to supervise. External invigilators are usually brought in anyway so in actual fact a school could be completely devoid of ANY teachers…and the exams could stil go ahead.
Look on the bright side; with an empty school around them the candidates are at least guaranteed total peace and silence before, during and after their exam. Ideal situation, in fact. For every cloud…
Mick
Report abuse
I think you will find, that the teachers who have opted to strike are not seeing it as an extra holiday. They do NOT WANT to take the day off, they would rather be at work but the circumstances as described by 12 George have left them with little choice. George is right, it is degrading to think that TLeS is so disrespectful – and remember this has been going on for over a year, so is not a response of a short term problem. TEachers are as committed to their jobs as anyone else in other professions. Also, we had assumed that the strike would take place at the end of the exams and many of us are not happy with the date. Shame not to have more support to be honest, but hey…..that is how our society appears to work these days. Dont worry, we are educating the youth of today to be more open minded then we are.
Report abuse
Typical public servant attitude – the expectation of jobs for life, with dummies out the pram should the gravy train slow down.
Teachers always harp on about the amount of time that they spend out of hours and during holidays preparing for the next school session.
If that’s the case why don’t they strike during the holidays or refuse to work these alleged evenings and simply stay at the “office” until 5.30pm like the rest of us?
Maybe then we could see and appreciate the effort they put in (or don’t).
Report abuse
Sack the lot and retrieve their gold plated pensions.
Report abuse
Ben @ 11
The exams being taken that day will not be affected by the industrial action. all exams will be supoervised and run on time. The teachers of the subjects will start the exams to make sure all students are fully briefed before they begin. this action will have no impact upon the GCSE or Alevel process as was stated by the unions when this began.
Hope that clears up any fears you have.
Report abuse
Hope and George: The circumstances outlined by Geroge are not jsut faced byt he Teaching community. Everyone, from finance, to the States employees, to construction are undergoing the same employment pressures. Redundancies, pay freezes, extra hours, shorter lunches, working through lunch, occur everywhere. It is only that the ‘precious’ teachers are having a whinge. They need to get some backbone, and strength and pull themselves into line with the rest of the world. They have shown nothing but contempt for the process, and my children will be educated irrespective of the limited availability of teachers – talking of respect – teachers shoudl show some, if they expect to receive it!
Report abuse
It always amuses me how the majority of the teachers or ‘teacher supporters’ that come on here (with myself as occasional exception) always seem to post calm, sensible and fairly well balanced messages…whilst their detractors always seem to use highly charged emotional language (often fraught with typos) calling for grand sweeping measures such as ‘sack them all’ or ‘get the boat.’
Report abuse
im doing my GCSE’s at the moment and i think teachers are being really selfish!
Report abuse
Do you know what? We were all educated at some point. I was taught to respect other people……and I dont see much respect going on here. It is a long time since I was in education, and would not like to be a teacher but I dont see what the problem is. All the teachers appear to be doing is sticking up for their rights, attempting to make their conditions of service more streamlined and asking to be listened to. I was interested to read in post 14 that Hope claims that teachers do not want to strike, but feel they are backed into a corner as negotiations have been ignored by our leaders – what kind of a message does that send out to our youth re the authority of the States? Does anyone actually read the JEP these days? Our Island is being mismanaged and this is just one example of the people of Jersey, no matter what profession, being disrespected. I wish the teachers luck with what I hope will be negotiations with a positive outcome rather than a strike, I am reassured that there are some people out there who are willing to make a stand and am also reassured that these people who I actually think have a backbone are educatiing our adults of the future.
Report abuse
Mick I can answer your question quite easily. Teachers have approached this to the detriment of many people, not just parents. Further, children and parents are the one’s being inconvenienced from their behaviour AT THE SAME TIME as going through the exact same changes to their situaiton due to the economic crises, but are not taking the same action. Non-parents are equally frustrated at a small group (striking teachers) who are taking such action, when it is clear the benefits they get is many cases outweight that of the private sector, and is the lead of most public sector roles.
It is a highly charged situation, because of the selfishness and disgusting behaviour teachers are engaging in, for what is clearly a situaiton EVERYONE is undergoing.
Therefore, they should be fired, like would be the case int he private sector if such disgusting behaviour were to take place.
Report abuse
Mick 19 – “whilst their detractors always seem to use highly charged emotional language (often fraught with typos)”
Yes, no typos from you Mick, just genuine spelling mistakes – still waiting with baited breath?
Report abuse
E Ponymous – brilliant. Mick is always spelling incorrectly. I might be in a rush between breaks to type, but don’t use that as my sole source of argument – but then again, Mick has nothign else to focus on, given the massive holes in his, and teachers reasons for the strike!
Report abuse
@E.Ponymous
As I pointed out to the lady who pulled me up on my use of the phrase ‘baited breath’…’baited’ and ‘bated’ are synonymous spellings of the same word. There is therefore nothing erroneous about my use of the phrase.
Check it out:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/baited
So yes, I am still waiting with baited breath…for YOU to get a life.
Mick
Report abuse
Its funny how people keep referring back to the Private Sector v’s Public Sector.
When everything is rosie private sector rakes it in public sector are lucky to get RPI. When things are tough private sector whinge about public sector wanting their RPI!
If you ask most teachers, they want improvements to their working conditions, to bring them into line with the UK. This is for the benefit of students not just for themselves.
I’ve worked in both the private and public sectors and i know which job produces well rounded individuals and which doesn’t.
Report abuse
Mick, you are the one criticising for spelling mistakes, because of your lack of argument. E Ponymous was simply makign a point about your inability to get it right… both in argument and spelling.
I guess you believe everything on the internet then… there is a reason why it is free!
Report abuse
Blah
Timing is the major issue here me thinks!
Why didn’t the teachers push for this when times were “rosie”?
…not when the world is going through one of the worst economic crises in modern times!
Incidentally, in the private sector we tend to get rewarded by performance so any bonuses are usually justified. If we were to throw our dummies out of the pram we would be told where to go in no uncertain terms (i.e the job centre).
The other difference is that the public sector does not necessarily pay the wages for the private sector worker whereas everyone pays the wages of the public sector worker via taxes.
The recent headlines state 60 public sector jobs are to go, but….
How many public sector jobs have been created since the recession?
How much fiscal spending has been for the benefit of the public sector as opposed to the private sector?
How many private sector jobs have been lost during the same period?
Find these answers and you may see why it is a public versus private sector debate.
Report abuse
Ok, Real Truthseeker.
Whatever you say.
Report abuse
Mick 25, I fear you are mistaken ( again ) bated and baited are entirely different words with different meanings. Baited means to entice to catch, bated means to hold ones breath ( as in anticipation )first used by Shakespeare in The Merchant of Venice where Shylock says to Antonio: “Shall I bend low and, in a bondman’s key, / With bated breath and whisp’ring humbleness, /. Mark Twain also used it in Tom Sawyer “Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale”.
This has since been mistakenly quoted as baited, partly because it sounds the same but also because the word bated is no longer used in the English language.
Anyone can make a mistake but only a fool would compound it by attempting to justify his error. I have a first in English Literature from Cambridge so I am well versed in both contemporary and ancient English language.
Do you still claim to be a teacher?
Report abuse
The fact that TLS hasn’t had the courtesy to attend scheduled meetings with the Union has probably accelerated the strike action. In my experience 2 willing parties with respect shown on both sides will come to an understanding and this will lead to a form of agreement. It is TLS who needs to show respect, the Union attended the scheduled meeting, he couldn’t be bothered. Why did his department accept the meeting in the first place?
This island would be heading in an entirely different direction if the States Members had voted Alan Breckon as Chief Minister. That is I believe the way the public would have voted. Any good states member would have held parish meetings and taken a floor count, to see how the public would vote, and they should have mirrored that in the chamber.
Report abuse
@E.Ponymous
Sorry fella…I suggest you take it up with the publishers of the Concise Oxford English Dictionary I have before me…page 100:
bait 2. variant spelling of BATE
May I suggest you waste even more time on your argument by alluding to countless other writers who have used variant spellings through the ages. Knock yourself out.
btw ‘bated’ means ‘in great suspense’, not ‘to hold ones breath’ (I’ll forgive you your omission of the possessive apostrophe – Cambridge clearly isn’t what it used to be) as you wrongly state.
Are you SURE they gave you a first?
Mick
Report abuse
Geroge you are right – the island would have ended up an agricultural farmhouse, with no finance industry, high unemployment, and it would be rising….
Report abuse
Mick 32 – btw ‘bated’ means ‘in great suspense’, not ‘to hold ones breath’
Not according to the source you used earlier for reference – http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bated
breathing only slightly, due to anxiety, excitement etc The crowd watched the rescue of the child with bated breath.
Either way baited has an entirely different meaning as C Le Verdic pointed out when you first made the mistake.
Report abuse
@E.Ponymous
Deary me what a mess. The example given in that online reference is the compound usage of ‘bated’ as an ADJECTIVE, not a verb. According to you the following sentence would make sense:
‘There was a funny smell in the room so John bated.’
Which is clearly nonsense. You studied English, you say? Hmm.
Mick
Report abuse
Real Truthseeker
Who the Chief Minister is really shouldn’t influence the Finance Industry to such a great extent.
Geoff Cook as head of Jersey Finance should have more influence, and along with Senator Ozouf are highly influential. Do you think TLS comes across as a strong charismatic leader. Ozouf and Breckon have the personality to be Chief Minister. The difference is that with Breckon, the island would have a conscience.
I have seen several older people on low incomes left to fend for themselves, I can give you one terrible example of how a retired police sergeant has been treated after his wife was taken into care. Borderline mental torture. The government as it is doesn’t care, it’s all about how Jersey appears to wealthy foreign nationals, so they put their money here.
Report abuse
A lot of policy would be the same regardless of who had become Chief Minister.
There would still have been a deficit to tackle with a limited ability to raise new taxes so some cuts would have been needed.
Maybe they would be applied later when the economy was growing more strongly under Breckon but the civil service advice would have been the same and they carry a lot of weight in Jersey where Ministers lack the special advisers, think tanks, etc that their UK counterparts enjoy.
Too many people in Jersey read the Daily Mail with its left wing bogey men under the bed and not enough read the Financial Times with its more measured view.
The fact is that Cameron will probably tax the average middle class Tory voter harder than Brown would have done so you don’t always get what you vote for anyway!
Report abuse
Mick I followed the link and the example given was the one matey supplied – “breathing only slightly, due to anxiety, excitement etc The crowd watched the rescue of the child with bated breath”
BTW if anyone thought you had a point defending the teachers it’s been lost in pedanticism – thanks for showing your true character.
E Ponymous – I’d give up mate he’s like a dog with a bone. Can’t be too overworked as a teacher to spend all his time on this forum.
Report abuse
E.Ponymous, what’s the betting that Mick only found out about the fortuitous alternative spelling after making his original post? Lucky break if you ask me.
If you stick with the non fishing version, Mick, you will be less likely to cause doubt. I’m an ex teacher(that’s why I am usually anti establishment), main course English no less, and know that we are always in the firing line where correctness is concerned, so better safe than sorry. I’m also used to kids justifying themselves until the cows come home!
Excellent swansong post on the other thread, Mick. Very well said.
Report abuse
Back to the point of discussion…
The exam students WILL suffer during this strike, because, for reasons I am unable to understand, it would appear that the school busses will not run on strike day. I guess Connex don’t want to put on a service for a hand full of year 10’s, 11’s and A level students.
Teachers have not considered the impacts of their actions at this time and have not grasped the lack of support they have.
It is Parents and Children who will have to change their arrangements to work around this strike.
Bad decision, bad planning, no comprehension for the real world.
Report abuse
Teachers in Jersey work in an Island that can boast an economy nestled nicely in the top ten in the world. Yet the conditions of service for teaching professionals is the worst in the developed world, closely followed by Northern Ireland as it happens. Some of these poor conditions include very little planning, preparation and assessment time- especially for Primary School teachers; giving up lunch and break times to supervise students and a lack of provision for badly behaved pupils for whom mainstream school isn’t suitable. For years the States have refused to recognise the seriousness of the problems. With members of the States Employment Board refusing to negotiate, or attend meetings to begin negotiations, frustrated an already tense atmosphere. The effective pay-cut is an issue, but for many teachers the dispute is more about conditions of service than pay. When vacancies remain unfilled locally, candidates from the mainland are increasingly reconsidering and withdrawing their applications. The high cost of living, the expensive rental accommodation and the poor conditions of service are now proving to outweigh the enticement of Jersey being a beautiful place to live.
It would be easy to simplify this threat of action as greed on the part of the Teachers. It’s simply not the case. It’s fundamentally about providing working conditions that allow professionals to do their job to the best of their ability. Every parent would want their child’s teacher to be able to teach effectively. It’s a shame that it has taken the spectre of industrial action for the States Employment Board to resume negotiations, but at least now they are listening.
Report abuse
Personally I’m not concerned if parents and children are ‘inconvenienced’. Some parents treat schools like a dumping ground for their badly behaved children and just expect the school to sort it out (not the school’s job might I add) it would do them the world of good to try spending an entire day teaching their own child. Unfortunately this kind will go to work and leave their kids to wander the street all day annoying the rest of us. Also, plenty of children are completely disrespectful to teachers and to their school itself.
The only ones being genuinely inconvenienced are the good parents and good children, I know some of them and they back the teachers, they would prefer teachers were allowed to concentrate on teaching once again rather than on being police, psychologists, etc.
Everyone seems to want the education system to regain the esteem in which it was once held. This simply cannot happen until teachers are allowed to focus on teaching and parents look after the disciplining of their own children. For every brat in school there will be at least one child whose education is suffering because the teacher has to deal with the brat. If that was my kid I’d be up in arms about it.
Report abuse
Leah Holmes, you are wrong on so many levels. PArent do not support the teachers in this regard, and believe the selfishness is unwarranted in the current state. Parents are also finding themselves to have to undertake jobs changes and increase workload as a result of the state of the economy, and believe it is selfish of teachers to think they are the only ones who shouldn’t, and at the SAME TIME want a pay increase.
Teachers will oly get respect when they stop behaving like selfish little brats.
Report abuse
Real Truthseeker – have you ever taught in a class room?
Have you spoken to all parents on the island.
Just shut up!
Report abuse
Real truth seeker. A question.
I am a parent and I support the teachers, as do many other parents I know. However, I also know parents who don’t support the teachers… so perhaps it would be better to post that some parents support and some parents dont!
I read and listen to a lot of arguements, not just on these forums, but on others too, and quite often I can see both sides of the story. Some arguements are put very well, and on occsions, have even persuaded me to change my stance on a subject.
However I cannot take arguements seriously when they are littered with sweeping statements like so many of your posts.
So my question is this.
Do you do that because you only want people to believe what you want them too, or do you genuinely just not know all the facts?
Thank you.
Report abuse
The facts are simple. The economy is in such a state which requires the community as a whole to pull together, and undergo changes in our lifestyle, earnings, and expectations in our jobs. Everyone seems to be contirbuting EXCEPT teachers. Why should teachers think they are so special, that they deserve pay rises, and easier working conditions? It is unfair, and grossly selfish.
So Big Bean, this is why I have the views I do, and every parent I speak to is equally incensed about their selfish behaviour, and ALL people I speak to agree that teachers are only loosing respect from this.
So in response to yours, this is why I am annoyed.
In terms of Donkey, appropriate name I think – but my resposne to you is NO! I will not!
Report abuse
45 Big Bean -
Having seen a great many of Real Truthseeker’s rants, I have no doubt about the answer to your question:
RT is simply a ‘troll’, a person who posts in the same way the bare-chest-and-big-belly brigade go to football matches, purely for the aggro value. A troll doesn’t know the difference between insult and argument, and has no interest in civilised discussion, since (a) he can’t do it and (b) it would stand in the way of repeating his prejudices ad infinitum.
When challenged previously, RT (clearly an opponent of education in any form) has said that there is no point in directing rational argument at the teachers or their supporters, since it would be like asking a 2-yr-old to solve an ‘algabra (sic) problem’.
Report abuse
#43 Real Truthseeker, you can’t speak for all good parents. The parents I know support the teachers, that’s all I said, you can’t call that wrong.
Teachers have also been forced to take on jobs completely unrelated to their training for many years before the recession kicked in, and at every point they have argued it. This is it coming to a head, it’s just unfortunate it didn’t come to a head before the recession.
What the States fail to see is that it’s quite amazing what terms and conditions people will put up with when they have true job satisfaction. Job satisfaction for a teacher means getting to teach, that involves the States doing their bit when it comes to enforcing discipline in schools.
Report abuse
Leah Holmes
I have decided since reading your posts on here that I am going to, from now on, ignore Real Truthseeker, who, over the last few weeks has annoyed and upset me. I thank you for your realistic posts on here, which talk about the views of people other than yourself, and show two sides rather than just the one.
Thank you.
Report abuse