Le Sueur faces vote of no confidence
Friday 4th June 2010, 3:00PM BST.
THE Chief Minister is to face a vote of no confidence in the wake of sweeping States cuts which backbenchers claim could hit the Island’s most vulnerable residents.
Following a rocky month for the Council of Ministers, Senator Terry Le Sueur is now preparing to discover whether he has the backing of politicians following the launch of the biggest cost-cutting drive in generations.
The vote is to be called by Deputy Geoff Southern, who says that the Island’s most vulnerable residents are ‘being attacked by their own government’.
Deputy Southern said that many of the cuts – ordered under the comprehensive spending review – were ‘cynical’ money-saving bids which would harm the economic recovery and seriously affect some of the poorest Islanders.
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I totally agree.The island is totally leadership under the Chief Minister,with the very naive Senator Ozouf pulling the strings ,with no idea of the impact of his actions.The whole governmental system needs an overall and the Council of Ministers inefficiency addressed.
I have to say that what goes around,comes around.
The island is a total mess.
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Thought this was what Stuart Syvret was doing by resigning & forcing a by election, that is a vote of no confidence in the whole system.
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Another chance for the States to show how useless they are.
They won’t vote for no confidence in Terry le Sueur but they won’t vote for the cuts in school milk, Christmas bonus, etc either.
So the good ship Jersey will continue to drift like the Marie Celeste…
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Would Mr Southern rather we bit the hand that fed us?
‘Grow up Mr Southern’ (robust political debate) and realise that in reality if you want to save money you take it from those least able to defend themselves and who contribute almost nothing to the wealth of Jersey.
You do not penalise the finance industry which is keeping this island going.
If the poor get poorer but in the process the rest of us survive and Jersey prospers then so be it.
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However bad things are under Senator Terry Le Sueur, the prospect of Deputy Geoff Southern as an alternative fills me with even less confidence. We are in a hole. HELP!
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I know what, let’s keep on spending until it is too late (see Greece) and then we can all riot (again, see Greece) because our services are being slashed.
We have to get real and ALL tighten our belts.
For all the people whinging about the forthcoming cuts, where are your bright ideas to deal with the upcoming deficits or are you just content at attacking people who are trying to deal with the problem?
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2 posts in and already SS has to be mentioned. why bring him up you know full well this is nothing to do with him.
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Fortuitous piece of electioneering Mr Southern!!
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If you think the majority would rather have Stuart Syvret running the Island think again! His attendance record in the States would call a vote of no confidence in 5 seconds!
If we are having replacements I want to see candidates with decent qualifications and stable minds.
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You couldn’t make it up, Jersey Government is like a clown show ! When will someone with integrity and intelligence be allowed to run things without the boys club, cover-ups and inefficiencies existing !
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F.A.O. Boris – thanks for sharing such a caring approach to your fellow islanders. So as far as you’re concerned, if you’re poor or not able to defend yourself you don’t matter, what a charming person you are !
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Well done Boris and Mark I am glad to see that someone else sees through deputy Southern. He and the Pitmans are creating a benefit culture which will create a HUGE future burden for the hard working tax payer of the Island. They show no concern for how these huge benefits are going to be serviced in the future, their only concern is to appease that part of the population that they feel will vote them back into the States. With regard to saving money. All states employees receive full pay when they are sick and also allowed to KEEP THEIR SICK BENFIT on top of their full pay as disclosed by a states employee to Deputy Shona Pitman on Jersey Talk Back, he even provided his name and phone number, on air, to challenge anyone to disprove what he said. When Pitman was asked to comment she totally ignored what had been said and tried to change the subject and several times lost track of her own conversation hown onn earth does she manage inn the States. If ever there was an example or cause to bring in Island wide voting for all politician, Southern and the Pitmans are a good examples for why this should be changed. All politicians should be looking after the island as a whole not creating a culture where people are better off not working.
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In defence (Did I really say that?) of Senator Le Suer. Any cuts by any civil power are likley to hit ‘those most vunerable’. Work it out. The States or any other goverment get money by taxation, excise etc. That money comes from those earning in the economy, who promptly whinge that they have earned the money, and want to keep it. That money then goes on things like, rubbish collection, in Jersey and UK, hospitals etc. schools and the taken for granted by most infrastructure that keeps our society running.
Now by all means hold those who take our money to account how they dole it out. But for both sides, there ‘aint no such thing as a free lunch!
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Interesting picture attached to this article. How much was spent on the new banknotes design and issue? Not necessary and money down the drain again. On looking at the list of proposed cuts I see that the only real cuts proposed are unfilled posts and lower paid workers (indians) as I suspected they would be. The others seem mainly to be from proposed efficiency reviews and restructuring which generally lead to a.expenditure on the review itself b.no identifiable cuts and c.a round of backslapping for having proved they are already efficient.
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The other side of swingeing cuts is state rip-offs.
I’ve just found the first one and keep an eye out for it.
Yesterday I went to pick my wife up from the airport on the 13.30 from Manchester. I got to the airport at 13.15 the flight came in on time and I went at 13.49 (I know because it was printed on the ticket afterwards). Now a sign clearly states 60p per hour our part thereof. Fair enough that’s under an hour by a fair margin the charge £1.20!!!!!!! Being a cheapskate Jerseyman I only had 70p on me so the missus had to cough up the rest.
I know this might seem trivial but where does it stop ? Perhaps TLS becoming a reincarnation of the Sheriff of Nottingham.
PS I photographed the ticket with my mobile phone before the barrier ate it so I have the evidence!!
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I will still vote for S.S. on the 16th, you can call him as many names as you like.thousands of others will vote for him also..
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Keith No9
Are you speaking for the known ‘majority’, or just out of the back of your head ?
Stuart Syvret is just about the only really straight person that has served his island over the past few years. He has not ‘feathered his nest’ in any way, and has only been a thorn in the side of the hierarchy because he seeks the truth and transparency that the island needs so badly.He is probably the bravest politician in the States Chambers since people like J J LeMarquand, and Norman Le Brocq, both of which had a hard time fighting for the rights of the average island resident.
Vote for whomsoever that wish, but don’t just follow the flock, take a real look at the facts yourself !
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He’d sure get my vote! (of No Confidence that is)
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It should be a vote of no confidence in the whole of the COM not just in Le Sueur. I for one have no faith in the political system here in this island and please stop blaming the whole sorry fiasco on SS.This island has been mis managed for decades,long before SS entered the political arena. Its us voters who must take some responsibility for the present state of affairs,after all we put them in power when placing our vote.
So think carefully when deciding in the by election.
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Thousands of others will vote for SS also!
(If Carlsberg……)
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Definitely behind the vote of no confidence! For a start I believe that give the opportunity to vote for chief minister, the public would never have voted TLS in! Get him out then allow the public decide who is to be chief minister!
Do agree with comments regarding the fact that we do need cutbacks – ultimately more spent than is coming in = debt! But the cuts need to be done fairly and any cut backs in essential services need to be done only when the states have stopped wasting money on roadworks, commissioning statues, employing a tea lady in the states(!), top heavy management structures within the states etc! Certainly don’t be taking school milk away until this tea lady post is scrapped!
Boris I really hope for your sake that you never get old or fall on hard times and if you do I hope you practice what you are saying and don’t accept handouts.
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17 Interested Bystander
When will you wake up and smell the coffee.
“Stuart Syvret is just about the only really straight person that has served his island over the past few years.”
Oh Pl-pl-ease. He has cost this island a small fortune with his run away mouth of tripe
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Correct B; charming and a realist. you have to cut your suit according to your cloth and the poor are going to have to wear shorts and no shoes for a while just like the old days
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@12 Micahel, in my experience, incorrect about sick benefit and full pay.The amount of sick pay is deducted from the salary so nothing is lost or gained.
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After speaking to some deputies not involved in the election, I was suprised to hear that they think Stuart Syvret will get in. Several reasons but one being that unlike Chief Minister Le Suer he has always wanted the States to be transparent, and accountable to the electorate he also comes across as being honest.
I have been to a hustings meeting to observe and make my own mind up.
It pains me to say this, but the sharpest tool in the box ,across a lot of subjects by a long way was Syvret. The gardener is classic comedy though.
Senator Le Suer, now facing a vote of no confidence, did not listen when 19,000 petitioned against GST. Many of those people have not forgotten his arrogant attitude. If he was on the stage in the election, the others would probably run rings around him not sure about the out of work gardener though !
Davey.
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i was made redundent end of last year im only £40 a week worse of i dont intend to look for work till end of summer hate to say it but jersey such a nice place to be unemployed
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no 19 nannie p this island has been mismanaged long before ss entered the polital arena so at least you agree he carried on the tradition and i agree with your other comment about being our fault for the present state of affairs to many including myself voted for him last time i wont make the same mistake again. regards the vote of no confidence it used to be that when someone bought a vote of confidence against a committee that person was ready to take over as president deputy southern for chief minister so i will repeat what nannie said think carefully who you vote for
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Bean Bag 16, Interested Bystander 17 and nannieP 19…….totally agree. The silent majority are about to be heard.
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‘If the poor get poorer but in the process the rest of us survive and Jersey prospers then so be it.’
Presumably, Boris, you are one of ‘the rest of us’ and not one of the sacrificeable poor?
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Boris #4 and #23…You are a disgrace but typical of some attitudes on this Island including,sadly, some politicians. You dont sound as though you will have to “cut your suit according to your cloth” and your comment that the “poor are going to have to wear shorts and no shoes for a while” is pathetic but not too much of a surprise in this staunchly conservative island.
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Bring it on!! i so love it when Jersey goes down the pan ..and sooner as! who cares there is a boat in the morning remember!.. oh local born and bred too, before the usual comments from capitalists …who really cares!!!!start a fresh ,move on its a big world out there.
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buying time! buying time!i,m only young and saving hard well paid job don,t give a damn about pay rise or nowt as long as i am working,happy for pay freeze etc if it all helps. Stop spending yer money in the pub and cigarettes and you might have some money in yer pockets! Jersey! life enriching……full of negative alcoholic, drug ridden low life
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and rich people to boot!
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disneyland!
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We are all going to have to cut our cloth accordingly. It’s all very well bringing a vote of no confidence but cuts have to be made somewhere if we are not going to see GST and Income Tax rates raised.
Let’s see – 2020 – Syvret is Chief Minister, Southern is “Robin” the trusty sidekick. We are paying 30% means 30% and GST is 12% – be careful what you wish for
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When will all you good folk realise that politicians (and in particular local politicians) are rather like babies nappies – they need changing frequently – and for much the same reason!
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After a quick scan of the replies, the following sticks out;
A tea lady!! Please, I hope that is not true.
Also, I hope the sick pay plus full pay is wrong. If it isn’t I see that as incomeptance by the States HR department and should be corrected ASAP and dishonest for the politicians taking the extra money. Surely not.
And finally #26 seb – do you have no ambition to improve yourself? You are happy to take eitheer a minimum wage or the benefit you are leaching off the taxpayers? Disgraceful.
Why don’t we go back to the days when the parishes dealt with paying out benefit only to those that were in dire need and were genuine. Not lazy spongers as seb has clearly stated he is.
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Ineffective cuts made by an ineffective government. The piecemeal proposed ‘savings’ will do nothing. Each and every departmental manager should fulfill his job description ie manage his department and make savings.
They should rein in especially TTS, who stop work early on Thursday and finish at 12.00 on Friday. I know of workers who regularly boast how little work is done on Friday because, and I quote ‘ It aint worth getting yer tools out cos yer going down the pub at 12′.
Make them and the rest of the lazy States employees do a days work and more to the point a full weeks work.
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The idea of Le Sueur being “Chief Minister” is not something which I have ever recognised. I cringe every time I see him described by this “imposed on the people” title in the media.
I believe from speaking to others that my view regarding lack of mandate and unsuitability for the role may be a widespread one. Whatever the situation, it was celar from the outset that Le Sueur was determined to be “Chief Minister” (inverted commas used purposefully in the context), regardless of a trifling matter such as public opinion.
What will happen now? Well, I fully expect the vote of no confidence to be unsuccessful. Why will that be so? Firstly, the vote is called for by a member who is non-establishment. As a matter of principle, such a thing from a mere outsider will probably be met with a closing of ranks against the perceived impertinence.
Then there will be the same collegiate back-slapping as there was when the States originally voted to make Le Sueuer “Chief Minister” in the first place. Apart from anything else, a negative vote now will show that they were wrong in the initial appointment. Self-effacing and willing to learn from mistakes they are not, by and large.
Finally, there is the prospect of a replacement “Chief Minister” if Le Sueuer goes. The cronies would doubtless try and block Breckon and anyone else who is not seen to fit the mould. That leaves Ozouf as a prosepctive candidate, a prospect which is simply too awful to contemplate!
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Grateful fool @37 – http://www.gov.je/Working/JobCareerAdvice/Pages/JobDetails.aspx?JobID=27858 that’s the details! No joke!
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Anarchy rules ok.
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Sometimes politicians worry me in this island. Sorry, but we have a cashflow problem. Everyone has been complaining about the states doing nothing for years, now they finally do something and the Chief Minister is getting a vote of no confidence.
Its all well and good doing that, but to those that back this proposal – what are their ideas to improve things that doesn’t involve cutting costs?
And also, who exactly would take over as Chief Minister if he went?
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Nanny P how I agree with you and so good to hear your common sense.The whole Council of Ministers and Bill Ogley should go in a vote of no confidence for the shambolic state this island is in,which is no reflection on Stuart Syvret.( if he’s been gone for so long,how can he be to blame !.)
The whole underhand wheeling and dealing around so many situations e.g Graham Power,John Day etc is not about the individuals but about how dishonestly and corruptly the senior people in this island manage Jersey.We are heading for some seriously bad times and what we need is a government and Ministers we have faith in.
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What a waste of time. Jersey faces huge challenges so egotistical protest politicians decide it would be a bit of fun to spend the States’ limited time and resources on a vote they know they will lose. Pathetic.
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Unfortunately severe across the boad spending cuts need to be made. These cuts should be addressed by encouraging full and part time employment which in turn should put more cash into the economy and lessen the benifits burden.
Such ‘quangos’ that are identified as heads of departments and managers should be cut lo lessen the overall cost. Tourism has sufferred greatly over the years and the islands most valuable assetts underated. Offshore banking and the attraction of monies ‘parked’ in the C.I will dwindle as the UK will tighten the nose making the C.I unattractive for these purposes. The raising of taxes also makes the island less attractive for investors and tourists alike, the only saving grace at the moment is that Jersey has stayed outside the eurozone which is on the verge of collaspe. The employment of States employees needs a drastic overhaul which would allow value for money productivity.
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it appears that for some there is a need to go into slightly more detail than I expected these is merely a simple matter of housekeeping.
try to imagine Jersey as a great big family that has a certain level of income into the bank on an annual basis (commonly known as Income and goods and services tax) now we have to make sure that we do not spend more than we are taking in as income, if we do we will end up in debt and have to borrow money in order to survive.
if we borrow money then we will need to offer security and if we fail to repay our debts then the assets we use as security will betaken by the lender. if ultimately we cannot make any repayments we will become bankrupt. this assumes someone will lend us the money in the first place.
now if we are to make cuts in order not to have to borrow then we need to cut what we are actually spending. we do not spend on the high net worth we spend on the poor and needy ergo if we make cuts these are the people who will feel the impact.
the alternative to making cuts is to increase tax, we have already imposed 20 means 20 and GST. the other options is to impose a capital gains tax, increase income tax or CGT or all three.
all of these actions will also impact on those on lower incomes as well as those who live here because of out favourable tax system. whilst a 11k may not pay much in income tax they do pay GST and their funds ‘trickle down’ to the rest of the population.
it is the finance industry which keeps this island going and if you (the envious) decide to over tax us then we will up sticks and go somewhere else.
Your choice really it is no skin off my nose if we all decide to go and live in the sun and take our business with us, Jersey will suffer. so Mr Southern think carefully what you wish for you may well end up with the tile role in ‘the boy stood on the burning deck’…..
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@Boris
Bugger off then. All of you. I am sick of this island being held hostage by overpaid suits who believe that society exists purely to put a shine on their latest sports car. Should finance quit the island then it would probably sting for a bit but we would survive and reform into a different kind of society.
Money does not bring happiness. A rich island puffed up with financiers’ cash (oh thank you for allowing it to trickle down to us grateful chirping poor) does not equal a happy place. Alcoholism and depression are rife, our government is rotten, the landscape of Jersey shifts yearly towards a form of bland corporate-driven white noise. To top it all off we have arrogant shysters like yourself trying to tell us that we need you and your wallet to survive.
We don’t. I pray for the day when the finance industry collapses. The harbour is that way; go spend the rest of your selfish materialistic existence under someone else’s sun…get out of the way of ours.
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42.AB…just look at 39′s brilliant post…and there are some great and principled contributors here who actually care for the place and are not blinded by money or the shysters….the removal of the dictatorial regime and subsequent reform is now urgent and eclipses all other concerns…Jersey tried a COM it has failed disastrously…and mostly because of dishonorable personal agendas… so more the fault of the players than the system…because the system had NO constitutional safeguards built in…at least the old and somewhat cumbersome committee system had the hand brake effect…we do not want a Hobson’s choice for chief minister for example,the calibre of stasesman is limited because many brilliant minds do not enter the arena to serve as they know the game is fixed,and because they are bright,won’t waste their time on it, so we are left with a poor choice which is why a rethink is so pressing..so a hybrid between the two with clear rules would be the way to go..come on Jersey we can do this..and be proud again…and not just yuppie whores.
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47# WB
I like it, nice ,robust and painfully true.
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47 WB
Well said.Excellent posting.
This island would be a lot better off socially and morally if the finance industry moved away.Sure we would all be poorer,but that would be better than being walked all over and treated like inconvenient scum by the ‘better than you’ attitudes of the self important,selfish,money obsessed business community and corrupt government
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WB @47, well said and well done. The island has been distorted and corrupted by the type of thinking and the brand of individual to which your post aptly reacts. The present and most unsavoury epoch will be judged in time with the benefit of hindsight. No more needs to be said.
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Brilliant John, great post; so tell me and all the other readers just how poor you want to be?
Come on I am really interested in how much of your standard of living do you want to sacrifice to be rid of the finance industry?
Is poverty defined by the fact that you cannot go out on Friday for a few beers and/or dinner? Is it choosing between food on the table or new shoes for the kids or, just food on the table, or maybe even a roof over your head, having your house reposed or no health service at all or no old age pension?
I don’t know what standard of living you have and would not presume to guess, however tell everyone what you would be happy to sacrifice to make Jersey morally pure (wow terrible similarities are possible here)?
Then if you have a family sit them down and tell them what you want them to give up to establish your version of utopia.
If you have no dependants I am sure some of your mates have so go explain to them your vision of the future.
Whilst on a roll; exactly what is Jersey going to do to make a living? In your back to basics living off the land, foraging the hedgerows vision of the future?
Because John, you have to support yourself as a country when the bogey men have all left to worship Mamon in far sunnier climes.
Tourism! Great; in an age when we can go to southern Europe and be guaranteed sun, sand and sex at a far cheaper price and with greater certainty than we can in Jersey, why take the risk
Agriculture! Yea right how many locals do I see happily ploughing the fields and scattering the good seed on the land? None! It is all done by migrant workers because it is beneath the proud Jerseyman and woman.
Besides this Jersey cannot compete in a global agricultural market (yes John, THE WORLD not a 9 by 5 island off the coast of France).
Only so many will pay the price for the best new potatoes in the world, the rest will buy from Egypt where people live in mud huts and defecate in a hole in the ground, with no schools or health services for their kids.
Just exactly what do you propose to put in the place of the finance industry to replace the tax it pays and the income it produces?
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Better off……without decent hospitals for the sick. Quality schools for our kids. Frequent transport to the UK and France. Strong charitable sector……
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Boris !
As another of your ilk quipped’
‘The price of everything, the value of nothing’
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@Boris
Typical scaremongering designed to make us all quiver in our boots and hug the legs of big Mummy Finance in case she elopes with the man next door and leaves us alone and hungry.
Who knows what would replace finance? I suspect that a healthier approach would be to reduce our dependency on the finance industry and place our eggs in a variety of baskets.
Certainly anything would be better then our current perceived dependency on soulless capitalists like yourself.
WB
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Aukward
quod erat demonstrandum
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Boris: “the lady methinks doth protest too much”. Keep digging, why don’t you. Your messages, as well as being pompous, are long winded and woffly. Get a life.
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You may not like what Boris has to say but when your income tax doubles, GST trebles, and your frozen wages (for those that have a job) depreciates every year – will you sit back proudly and proclaim “This is what I wanted – a simpler life – post finance??”
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OK Boris,
So you and your ilk pack up your tents and leave the Channel Islands, thumbing your collective noses at the community who’s relaxed rules allowed your industry to make billions in extra profits over the years.
Has anyone looked at the fact that the islands sit on one of the biggest enviromental wave power generators in the world and a captive market in France for the 600,000 +/_ homes worth of power the races could generate?
A far more benign set of industries such as green power generation and possibly a university housed in those nice edifices you built for yourselves would see the islands having far more revenue and a morally & ethically acceptable economic model.
So threaten away Boris. Because if you go then the stooges you have in your pockets will go with you and neither of you would be missed in the long term.
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I dont like it, but I think Boris is right.
Lets not knee jerk, we need to think good and hard before we kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
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Come on now it’s not either or….Balance that is what is required…corporate greed needs a certain balancing off with the overall impact on everything else..corporates by nature are heartless and anonymous…like big Pharma who could not care less what their drugs do to people, big oil like BP who have hired mercenaries to chase kill off and brutalise local natives in many locations,south American jungles in particular,there are many examles of company indifference…which is why quango’s are so evil..take the humanity out of anything and humanity suffers…just because balance is difficult to achieve does not mean it should not be strived for.and yes if you are swanning around in your gas guzzler it is irksome to be reminded of the natural and human carnage spent in getting the fuel in your tank…but blinding ourselves is disatrous and insane…we have smart people here, financial progress can be made benefits can accrue…but not unbridled that’s all.
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*56, oh goodness, another person quoting latin to try and appear clever. When coherent argument fails, try resorting to latin to baffle the oiks and to curry favour with the “intelligensia”.
Well, there we are. The man clearly has nothing of any value left to say.
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Green Gold Rush
Great, Jersey is obviously not a total lost cause as you have come up with an alternative instead of just trying to trade rather insults as some have. Whilst a very good idea the problem with this concept is the cost; if we try and cover R&D and construction and marketing ourselves then our collective black hole will be even bigger than it is now. And just how many locals are going to be employed on this project when we do not have the necessary expertise. If ‘big business’ decides to fund the project then they will want to recoup their costs and make a profit before the island sees anything at all and if we do see much it will be in licensing charges to the power generators.
The other problem is green, what effect will this have on our coastline and I don’t mean the machinery floating around all over the place. If we generate energy from the sea then we have to take that energy out of it. This may disrupt a vulnerable ecosystem in ways we cannot imagine.
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Why not cut ministers, states senators and Mr. Ogley’s salary by 10% ?…. ‘we should all be seen to make sacrifices and suufer for the graeter good’
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Extremely simplistic Boris re cutting services and raising tax as the only options and how the former must hit the poor and needy. For a start there are efficiencies to be had in our public services but you chose to ignore that possibility. Then there is removal of functions which the state shouldn’t be doing. Unfortunately the world over public services tend to have a habit of expanding their reach into new areas of the economy and our lives that our parent’s generation would have found shocking. There are bound to be activities which we can honestly say our public services shouldn’t be involved in. This is before we hit the poor and needy. We also have the situation whereby not only do public sector workers now enjoy better incomes and benefits than their private sector counterparts (a reversal of the historic situation) but they also benefit from a much greater level of job security. Like most western governments who have grown the size of the state greater than the growth in GDP, we need to role back this spending. That is why so many countries have implemented modest cuts to public sector salaries as an alternative to job losses.
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Southern is electioneering and the JEP are giving him the voice he wants.
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Boris @52
I think your jumping the gun a bit in defense of your beloved finance industry.
I never said anything about going back to basics,nor did i mention tourism or agriculture.There are many other alternatives i am sure as Green Gold Rush quite rightly pointed out an excellent one.Yes Jersey once had a tourism industry which is now almost finished due to various factors.And just as tourism died out so will tax havens,The difference being everyone likes a holiday but no one likes a smug tax dodger,Having a tourism industry is nothing to be ashamed about,being used as a tax haven is.We need an industry/industries to be proud of.How much negative publicity is there globally at the moment at the finance industry!How much positive publicity is there over tidal energy.You need to think outside the box Boris.
As for threatening to move to sunnier climes.Please do,you’re not a prisoner here.
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No corporate fraud policy ( goes hand in hand with protected whistle blower policy, a staff member may discover there boss being dishonest) as found in every council in the uk.
No paedophilia register.
Not a proper functioning States employment board that suspends and carries out timely discipline in fair and just manner. Just suspends ( some )senior staff for years, which is bordering on illegal and very expensive. Conversely refuses to discipline some high-ranking staff found to be a fault in recent high profile reports. Awards ridiculous pay and bonus settlements to some quango employees. Senators Le Suer and Ozouf have seats on this board
Several States departments still using “small sweet shop” accounting instead of the proper GAAP method including harbours. This is the minimum standard the Jersey income tax department expects Jersey companies to work to.
The Generally Accepted Accounting Practice in the UK, or UK GAAP, are the overall body of regulation establishing how company accounts must be prepared.
No freedom of information law yet, as accepted and passed by the States in 2005, but only a voluntary code open to abuse recently by the CM Le Suer after questions in the States. I will not tell you the earnings or bonuses paid he said.
Senator Le Suer has watched over all these non changes for decades, and is now the Chief Minister of the council of ministers.
Can anyone see the connection. The world has moved on and so should CM Le Suer.
Davey
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I am continually astonished at how ignorant people are of what the finance industry actually does. Perhaps the greatest example of “useful idiocy” one could ever come across is all those voices who would happily decimate the Island’s only significant industry without having the faintest understanding of what it does and how well it does it.
The facts (that means things you can check for yourself rather than simple opinions) include:
1) Jersey was given a very clean bill of health from the IMF: in terms of complying with the 49 FATF recommendations (look ‘em up) Jersey was better than everywhere else.
2) The proportion of locally qualified people working in finance is higher than in any other industry.
3) The wages people get in the finance industry (and hence the tax they pay) is materially higher than any other industry in Jersey.
But don’t let the facts get in the way of your prejudices.
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Yes donald pond
It does as well as, or better than, any other secrecy jurisdiction.
You can defend it all you like, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a source of social destruction.
But be proud.
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“You can defend it all you like, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a source of social destruction.”
I think when you put “the fact” you meant to write “my opinion”, and thus prove that every word I wrote in 69 was correct.
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There is actually a lot that is valid in the complaints by the likes of Christian Aid as to the pernicious effects of offshore finance centres have on the tax base of many developing countries who dont have the anti avoidance legislation and enforcement skills of the US and UK to prevent it. Sadly we chose to look the other way while working on these structures in our trust companies and the like. The odd little charitable donation or sponsored cycle ride overseas doesn’t make up for it.
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No, pond, I didn’t. It is a fact.
The sooner you types disappear, the sooner we can evolve. Happy sneering.
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@Pond
I am sure that all over the world there are whole communities of workers held in sway by the money that trickles their way from the huge businesses that control their lives.
Does this justify the inequalities or social destructions that result? No a jot.
’2) The proportion of locally qualified people working in finance is higher than in any other industry.’
What else is there for them to do in an island whose sole purpose is rapidly becoming that of making money for wealthy people? There are few other industries for them to go into…hence the vast majority hop on the treadmill for want of anything else for them to do.
’3) The wages people get in the finance industry (and hence the tax they pay) is materially higher than any other industry in Jersey.’
So what? What has this got to do with anything? They may pay more in tax yet they are still the only ones who are able to avoid to buy houses here and maintain a good standard of living.
What would you rather be paying – 20% of £100 a week or 20% of £1,000 a week?
WB
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He is awful get rid.
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Yes, and can he take Boris with him! Boris has to be one of those “do you know who I am” cornholes. Pin-striped suits, red socks, that kind of social elitist, has to be heard in a restaurant, you know the type. If it wasn’t for the finance industry, we would still have an island of unspoilt beauty, and with few social problems. You only have to look at Ozouf, a farmers son, but blinded by the lights of the finance industry. We are all now it’s slaves. Anyone who thinks that TLS runs this island is wrong, he is told what to do by the head of each and every bank here. He is nothing but the finance industries puppet!
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Someone said “1) Jersey was given a very clean bill of health from the IMF: in terms of complying with the 49 FATF recommendations (look ‘em up) Jersey was better than everywhere else. ”
What does this show? Well, it shows that Jersey complied with the prescribed standards. Nothing more than that. Much depends upon the parameters of the report and perhaps the politics of those compiling the same. The independence of the panel [and not merely that of the shop front, grandstand variety] will also be very relevant. Much also depends upon the politics of those who drew up the standards to which the report refers. No doubt the matter of community economics would not be something which would have been deemed to be of direct relevance or indeed any relevance at all!
And Jersey is “better than everywhere else”. Well, that might be true. But “everywhere else” may not be a very good yardstick and there is certainly evidence to show that money laundering is rife in certain other regimes. So, it follows that being better than “everywhere else” might not be much to shout home about.
Certainly there must have been particular items of legislation which those conducting the report either misunderstood or chose not not to notice.
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Pond, you’re wasting your time with this lot of sneering, self-hating hypocrites. Any of them wouldn’t hesitate to destroy the finance system, but they’re happy to take the world class health, education and social benefits it supplies. They won’t be happy until they’re wearing Mao suits, working in the District Collective Farms and worshipping their Dear Leader Stuart…
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In a run up to this vote of no confidence ,there was an election today in the States.
Red Corner TLS favoured candidate fully supported.
Blue Corner TLS absolutely not supported state as such and of dubious ability.
In secret ballot blue won fairly easily!!
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@Farmer Geddo
The usual tripe. Mention by chance that you happen to disagree with a worldview shaped by the pursuit of wealth and material goods and you are instantly dismissed as a card-carrying communist.
World class health, you say. The recent damning report on the General hospital must have been lost on you.
World class education, you say. Is it just me or did I read somewhere that the island’s teachers are limbering up for strike action because of perceived substandard working conditions?
Rose tinted glasses, I guess. (Most probably Dolce and Gabana. Makes sure to go get them from the glovebox of your 4×4 before you head up to bed to read your yachting mag. See, I can stereotype too.)
WB
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@76 George “If it wasn’t for the finance industry, we would still have an island of unspoilt beauty, and with few social problems.”
Ah but yes, eh, ah remember them golden days, of farmworkers living in huts without running water, those days of typhoid, slums, basic-education-only, and most people dying too early to find out there was no geriatric care… Great times, great times.
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Farmer Geddo,
You are right.
These are people who ignore the OECD, the IMF, 2 independent reports from leading UK experts appointed by a Labour government and countless other reviews and instead parrot the opinions of someone paid for by the TUC who hasn’t even a degree from a leading university.
And Arnald is clearly a Guernseyman to boot!
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ok thanks for the insults but no one has yet come up with a viable alternative to the finance industry so none of this invective really matters until someone comes up with something considered and sensible
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Farmer Geddo; you clearly think in terms of extremes with nothing in between. How can those persons who express a view one way or the other be termed “self hating”? Your anaysis does not sound very educated, particularly given the irrelevant chinese reference.
The vote of confidence will be an interesting exercise. We all know what the outcome will be.
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I see it as;
CoM corner, Jackie Hilton
Sean Power, muddy middle
Alan Breckon, radical change
Muddy middle won, thus Terry le Sueur will win the vote of no confidence but then they will vote against the proposed cuts.
Support the man but not the policies, eighteen more months of failure will follow!
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Some comments here seem to think that if we don,t like the finance industry then we must want to .turn the clock back 100 years live in mud huts and not have any schools.This is not true we can still have a modern prosperous island without relying on an industry which some parts of which,are morally indefensible to many people,not only islanders but worldwide.I am aware this doesn’t apply to all parts of the finance industry but those that are simply using the island for tax advantages and depriving their own country of much needed revenue.if Barack Obama and Vince Cable decided to put a stop to tax havens and offshore centres within 10-15 years,we should have a few other options up our sleeves.Test centre for electric vehicles and boats,the movie industry,IT,tidal power,specialised organic farming.These are just a couple of my own ideas and maybe not even feasible but my point is we have had all our eggs in one basket for too long and its time to move forward.
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WB @80
And i totally agree with you about our world class healthcare.What a joke.
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WB
Why are you so aggressive!! You must be a bundle of opinionated laughs at a barbeque!
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“Test centre for electric vehicles and boats,the movie industry,IT,tidal power,specialised organic farming”
Can you explain why any of the above (with the exception of tidal power) could not be done in the UK or France for a fraction of the cost? Land, labour and transport costs are much less there.
And tidal power is a huge project that the island cannot fund. When the technology is there we could adopt it and it will provide revenues. But we cannot develop it.
Islands get wealthy in one of two ways: financial services or exploitation of natural resources (tourism being the obvious way, but tidal power could be a new way). Otherwise they face depopulation and poverty.
Find me the exception: Anglesey? the Scillies? Sicily? Corsica? the Maldives? Caribbean? the Hebrides? Easter Island?
Jersey is full of wealthy entrepreneurs: if there were opportunities to make money through diversification they would be taken.
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Cathy, I agree with your sentiments. I wouldn’t mind being at such a barbeque, though, to see what the apologists for the finance industry would say without their secretaries and spin doctors to hide behind… no doubt many of the usual arguments would break down under careful probing, although one would imagine that those being questioned would simply walk off to flip another burger.
A commentator said, Quote:
“the opinions of someone paid for by the TUC who hasn’t even a degree from a leading university”
Well, this shows two things. Firstly, a lack of respect for the collective bargaining movement [surprise surprise].
Secondly and more tellingly, it shows an archaic clinging onto the vestiges of privilege [again, no surprises there!].
Many young people are very bright but do not have the means to attend “a leading university” [whatever that might be], or, as in days gone by, their respective fathers didn’t go there. Only a particular class can attend the private secondary education which tends to lead to tertiary education. As well as being somewhat dated, the view show a lack of thought and intelligence. One wonders if the commentator is joking, so silly is the view.
To get back to the subject matter, it will be interesting though highly predictable to see what will happen in the states. It is, again, telling, to observe that the majority of commentators see in the “Chief Minister’s” incumbency a good deal of the island’s problems. Many also squarely identify him as the lynchpin of the finance industry. Wouldn’t it have been wonderful if Senator Le Sueur had instead forged a place as a principled, strong advocate of social justice and champion of the ordinary Jersey person? That is the hallmark of a proper local politician in the book of very many people.
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Boris some of us HAVE been coming up with at least components of alternatives.Nothing is going to replace the Finance Industry anyway but a smaller retrenched industry and a panoply of other ‘exporting’ industries would make sense.
However, there is a problem. That is because the Finance industry is so overwhelming and has generated a bloated civil service in ALL areas (because we HAD the money and empires needed to be built).The legislation required to get the new industries started is always ‘put on the long finger’ because the Finance Industry has priority. Then because there are these under used civil servants in empires we now have a range of prohibition/compliance legislation (ironically I’m not talking about FI ones these were empire building one EIAs come to mind)that far exceeds the rest of the civilised world. I know what I’m talking about here.
FI is a real cuckoo in the nest but its big fat and already sitting on me!!!
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John (86)
Thank you for having a similar vision to me and highlighting the various other opportunities the Channel Islands (lets think of the 2 islands as joined by similar problems, but possibilities) could embrace.
With speed limits of 40 mph, (even Porsche’s, Aston Martin’s & Land Rover Discovery’s have to abide by the law!) the electric vehicle is well suited to the roads of the islands.
Imagine a movie starring some of the biggest names in Hollywood, but the CGI has been done by IT firms sited in Trinity or St Sampson’s. This is not a stupid or harebrained scheme, small companies in the UK make a fortune from this already.
The UK is suffering from a shortage of places for students on computer games & CGI courses, so there’s an opening and once they qualify there would be job openings for them but not restricted to finance.
We can keep the finance industry, but if it diminishes (and it is more than a probability, but a possibility) then embrace the change and the potential it offers.
A more benign and morally centred government is not one that will kick out the finance industry, but it will ensure it pays a fair share towards the island(s) and encourages diversification of education, industry and society.
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81 I was in Jersey as a child in the sixties and seventies before the finance industry took over and believe or not there were cars and real houses not mud huts and schools and hospitals and shops and people had jobs. Jersey was also a much nicer and less crowded and built up place to live in.
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There can be no doubt that very few of the members are really up to the job and that those who truly are rarely get to see the light of day or are forced into exile. I’ve often thought that to commence the wholesale clean up of the States of Jersey we should get a law passed which states that anyone by the name of Terry should be immediately disqualified from holding any position within the Island’s government.
Always good to kill two birds with one stone.
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Green Gold Rush – excellent comments. I completely agree.
Green Power, rather than gold power is the way forward for this Island.
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i know this thread was supposed to be about no confidence in TLS, but i’d vote for green gold rush and john quicker than him or his bunch anyday!
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Roger Phelgm@89
As you may have guessed i am not an entrepeneur!
Though there are islands that have industries other than tourism and finance.Some examples:Tahiti-world class pearl production.
Macau-Gambling industry for wealthy Chinese.
I have also visited an Indonesian island that farms seaweed to sell to cosmetic companies
I am not sugesting any of these suitable for Jersey, but that other islands do produce an income from other means.
There are alternatives
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The 70s were a decade with houses and things just like we have today. And ordinary people could buy them! I was little then and I can remember farms before they were covered in marley paving and packed full of social climbers. People had manners then as well and weren’t just interested in greed and one upmanship. Let’s get some proper, people’s politicians back please
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Jackie 93 – I grew up in that era too
Placing the blame on the current politicians isn’t the answer. The green fields started going a few decades ago. I grew up in St Saviour and watched Princes Tower Road be developed, Jardin A Pommier built, Clos Paumelle spring up and the development along Deloraine Road. Then the Convent at FCJ was torn down for Grainville.
Many of the people moaning now benefited from these developments and I do know that many of my colleagues who rented rooms in houses as the island expanded were being fleeced by the people who came to the island in the 70′s. There should have been a rent deposit scheme decades ago.
We can all moan at those doing the job now the tide is turning but much of the decision making process should have been done decades ago!
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John,
Tahita does have pearls: they are a natural product in an ideal environment that are well marketed. Our equivalent in Jersey Royals.
Macau – well, that’s a one-off. The Chinese love to gamble and there are billions of them next door. Jersey missed out on e-gaming to Alderney but e-gaming is a low margin business with no barriers to entry so will never make much money.
Seaweed? There may be a very little potential but they get the same seaweed in France and can process it more cheaply. And Indonesia is, as I recall, very poor.
There are going to be some industries that can work in Jersey – Jersey royals for export, for example. There should be more emphasis on producing food for the local market (because then the transport costs work in our favour – its cheaper to deliver something to St Helier from St John than from Kenya).
But the finance industry employs around 15,000 people on an average wage of around £35,000 (I recall, ma be wrong). I have never heard anyone even suggest anything that could employ more than 100 people. That’s the problem and it’s not the States fault.
The States fault is not a failure to diversify the economy but a failure to save much more while the goose has been laying golden eggs.
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#100 Roger
The goose laid an unexpected extra £20M very recently, it has been put in a basket that holds £550M.
How much more should we have saved?
Our structural deficit relates only to our small change.
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How much more should we have saved?
I would say about 10 times more. We should have realised in the 1980s that being a financial centre was a windfall that might not last forever. Taxes in the 80s and 90s were far too low and spending on rubbish like the cavern was too high. We should have saved more during that period and invested it wisely (as opposed to getting near-cash returns during a 20 year stock market boom).
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Harmony Man #36…..Brilliant
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How much more should we have saved asks Perspicuous ?
Our structural deficit relates only to our small change.
Sorry but you are wrong in my humble opinion on both counts. First – the island costs total around £700 million per annum run. So in a worse case senario we cannot cover from savings one years expenditure. Thats pathetic after 40 years of growth.
Second, structual deficit is a very mean machine that must be fixed. Government costs just about always go up inflation,repairs new incinerator, etc. Jersey is spending more than its getting in and taxing business and the public more will only cause meltdown as in the law of diminishing returns. To be positive, we need to get away from the Greek syndrome and cut our cloth.
This means putting a structure in place that encourages diverse business to grow. At the same time cutting waste (plenty of) in Government departments.
Davey.
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