2

Paul

And they fully deserve every penny!

If Carlsberg did States of Jersey Salary Reviews…….

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4

Stan Dinstill

I don’t doubt that this headline will result in outcry but they are only being paid the market rate for their jobs. I completely agree that states departments are overstaffed and cuts need to be made but don’t assume that all high earners are overpaid, why would the states pay them more than they have to?

I know one guy in a sales position in the bank who got a £250,000 comission bonus, his basic salary is about £40K. Nobody pays more than they have to, if in the private sector they would earn a similiar amount.

That said the 6 blokes I walked past on Rue Des Pres looking at a bit of tarmac thinking about starting digging in the not too distant future – maybe we could lose a couple of them. I mean 6 blokes standing around doing nothing or 4, what’s the difference.

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6

Hedinda Sands

Because they’re worth it !

Power ……. Day …………. ?????

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8

truthseeker

Terry Le Sueur again caught with his pants well round his ankles,Roy Le Herissier requested info on these salaries.He was answered by TLS with a No,the excuse offered,”Contractual confidentiality” what a load of made up tosh and plain B.S.So here we have secrecy coming from the CM.until the big boys in Whitehall have shamed him into it,what a disgrace this man is and should go.Then you have Dr.Geller who spent ,how much,will we ever know millions on the Tamiflu debacle,this stuff was not needed contains dangerous amounts of Mercury and should not have been disposed of down the drains,despite requests for info on how it would be disposed of ,no reply,then Hey Presto ! it magically vanished without fanfare,no wonder they call her Uri’s sister, we deserve a mcuh better,more honest standards in the people who cost us so much,time for a pay review and wage cuts among the well overpaid and under qualified.

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10

Chubber

“The document also reveals that the States received £71 million more than they spent in 2009 – £20 million more than expected.”

Every year we appear to receive more money than expected but spend more than we budget for… Treasury don’t know their @rse from their elbow.

I would shed a tear but theres a drowt.

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12

Colin Hunter

THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!

500 people on £70K plus per year, what on earth do they do for that level of pay? Some of them will be worth such a high pay packet, but I certainly don’t see the need to have 500 of them toiling away and spending our hard earned cash!

For these 500 States workers, costing a minimum of 70K per year, equates to a running cost of at least £35,000,000M. The running costs of the rest of the states workers wages must push this annual wage bill to £100,000M per year at least – just for the workers! plus add all the rest of the expenses, running costs, buildings and machinery, insurances, stationary e.t.c. It must mean the States annual bill is £200M plus!!!!!

20 means 20 – you’re having a laugh!

Is this for real?

This has to stop NOW. we can no longer sustain such a ludicrous honey pot for those privileged few.

Where is the justice in this, where is the equality it makes me sick, and I hope there are serious cuts…

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14

Mr Sensible

without doubt some of these salaries are outrageous,i imagine most of these higher paid civil servants also receive free parking,fuel allowance,free tea and coffee what a joke whilst hundreds of our school leaver face the prospect of no jobs these higher paid civil servants stick together belong to the same clubs and don’t give a dam about the normal working person .

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16

TheMoaningOldBugger

the only people on that list that deserve that sort of payment are the Consultants…at least they are saving lives…..

my respect for any of the others on the list have gone straight down the drain……..

if fact if I see any States Members or any of the civil servants in town or down the local co-op they will certainly know my feelings towards them………

none and I mean NONE of these people deserve this amount of monies

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18

428 CJ

Thanks to Andy and the JEp for running this. Time for the people of Jersey to wake up methinks.

#7 couldn’t agree more.

Also please think about the pension liabilities building here…..

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20

Simple Simon

This is bonkers.

Why aren’t any of these earners not paying more income tax to begin with?

£250,000 and only 20% its obscene.

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22

The Ex Pat

I hate to break it to you folks but £70K a year is not a fortune, lots of senior management exceed that figure. I run a department for a large financial institution and was seconded to Jersey on an ex pat contract. I was given my choice of free accommodation up to the value of £40K a year and settled on a nice 5 bedroom house for me and my wife ( lots of room for the grown up kids and friends to visit ). I was given an unlimited J Category licence which I’ve since discovered means that providing I continue to perform means that I can remain here indefinitely.

My basic salary is £65K plus benefits ( flights to the UK, various allowances ) also I get a performance based bonus ( in a bad year it’ll be £15K ) So I am one of many department heads within the institution, I can expect to earn at least £80K plus free accommodation worth £40K ( on which I don’t pay tax ) makes these states workers seem hard done by doesn’t it.

I love this place and will probably save the money I’m not spending on accommodation to buy a house outright when I achieve local qualified status which I will do in 10 years being J Category. If you are skilled and in demand the market will pay what you are worth.

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24

Rob Bery

This is why I resent paying tax in Jersey.

While some of these people probably deserve the amount they are being paid, there is no doubt that for a lot the wages are unjustified. Not only that but the states made £71 million from us? And what are they doing with it..digging up roads again, getting rid of free milk for schools – it’s disgusting.

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26

Jerseysfuture

Some of the ‘overpaid’ civil servants could easily double their salaries within the private sector.
Yes even the ones at the top.

Without some of these people skilfully guiding ministers who make government policy, your income and the islands welfare would be in severe trouble.

On a lighter side some of your comments made me smile and on occasion laugh. keep it coming.

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28

Frances

‘The Ex Pat’ the only valid comment. Pay is determined by the market. Of States employees paid more than £100 the two question not asked are ‘What jobs are they doing – surgeon, doctor, dentist, Chief Executive; and what return do we obtain for that salary expenditure?’ No salary above £100k = no senior medical staff doctors etc and no managementn of the calibre required. When will we begin to be real and measure outputs (what we obtain in return for the cost of salaries etc) than moaning about having to pay them?

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30

Mrs Rosemary Bead

Expat, 22

Your comment is more of a brag, “I’m alright Jack” springs to mind.

If you wish to say something constructive please do, otherwise buy yourself a big car or have an operation to parade your ego in a more effective way…

I’ve never heard such a self serving comment in all my time
Rose

x

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32

Robert

Sorry to break it to you Expat but the accomodation is a taxable beenfit in kind and must be declared.

In fact your employer should be decl;aring it and taking it into account in your ITIS.

Sorry to break it to you but your tax bill has just gone up by up to £8k.

Enjoy!

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34

Pip Clement

A quick look at the Jersey government site will reveal that the The Ex Pat has to pay tax on his accommodation unless his employer is paying it on his behalf.
http://www.gov.je/TaxesMoney/IncomeTax/Employers/BenefitsInKind/Pages/Exemptions.aspx
Under the 20 means 20 legislation the whole area of benefits in kind has been tightened up a lot and it is no longer exempt except for clergy, etc and it seems unlikely that the The Ex Pat is a minister in the temple of Mammon
On the other hand the whole post could be a wind up!

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36

Steve

Nice to see you’re doing alright for youself Ex Pat. 70k is a fortune, and I think most people will agree with me.

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38

Helen Back

34. Pip
Pip i think your bang on with Expats write up, its a joke to wind people up. Hehe it worked by the look of things!

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40

truthseeker

There is now an unsustainable legacy of final salary pensions…it is little wonder that the civil servants and politicians, all way too cozy become vociferous and venomous to anyone who questions or challenges things they want the gravy train to keep on running…it is said the Govt that Governs best Governs least..we have so many overpaid and unnescessary jobsworths who infuriate and hinder small buisnesses it is disastrous..we are actually paying tax which is being spent hiring useless idiots to get in our way and thwart ordinary people trying to make a living,papers for this permits for that ,inspectors of the other..all B.S. and we have allowed ourselves to become unpaid tax collectors for it..AAgh…in short they set themselves up in the job we overpay them ,then they send us out to get info for them to tax us more to pay for it.and you wonder why the smell of revolution is in the air. it is because the inmates are taking over the asylum.. Ha Ha. cuckoo’s nest anyone.

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42

Jeremiah Boogle

Person at 41* said

“The other side of the equation is why – according to word on the legal street – nobody else wanted the job. Perhaps because £150k is on the lower side of what a salaried partner at a leading law firm in Jersey takes home. So why would any promising, young, but still relatively unproven lawyer want to take a pay cut to work in the public sector where he will be sniped at? And lose the chance of the big bucks that comes with equity.”

Response to that is; 1)there were, apparently, a number of other applicants. There would have been even more had the junior bar known that the position would be made available to a junior candidate. Unfortunately, it was not advertised as such. By tradition, it would have gone to a senior figure. Certainly £150,000 is attractive indeed to someone earning between one third and one half of that as a newly qualified person in the private sector.

2)Salaried partners (a contradiction in terms if ever there were one!) do not take home anywhere near £150k in most firms. In fact, I cannot think of one firm where this might be so, although there will be exceptions.

3) Such a newly qualified Advocate would be years away from a partnership in today’s profession. Unless you know someone, you are destined to be a wage slave for 5-8 years, during which time you must endure an array of fancy job titles, all of which are designed to keep one from the partnership drawbridge (raised) for as long as possible!

So, to recap, would such a person get £150k elsewhere? No.

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44

wan

During the last few decades of good times it hasn’t only been people whom became obese. The civil service has been adding layer and layer of managers who stayed and stayed with their salaries becoming the equivalent of obese. Generous pensions offered have lead to a black hole that somehow needs to be filled. When a private company hits bad times they need to cut costs and its main cost is the payroll. So redundandies follow and other staff have to work harder and more efficient. Ozouf should be skimming the layers of managers who all think they do something very important. Instead he hits the school milk and pensioner’s Christmas bonuses. What a coward !

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46

Cathy

The bigger issue is the sizeable pensions that accompany the sizeable salaries.

Markets will generally determine a salary level, but our Civil Servant pension schemes are unsustainable and it is notable that no politician has taken this issue on. Not a big vote winner but a sizeable legacy to future generations!

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48

Hugh Janus

Wan # 44. Well said. I too have noticed an increase over the years in the numbers of managers and frankly wonder what they all do.

I have also noticed an increase in the power of the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development (C.I.P.D.), whom I suspect are largely responsible for the increase in management systems and personnel involved in management.

There are many ‘non jobs’ in the public sector. In the organisation I work for, there are a number of policy performance and review managers earning mega bucks. However they rarely write policies and surely can not review performance if they don’t visit the doers.

There needs to be a root and branch examination of the need for all these posts who seem to achieve very little to benefit the public.

If there are to be cutbacks in the public sector, lets hope the States don’t get bamboozled by gobbledygook from the C.I.P.D. in to cutting in the wrong places.

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50

Hugo Jerkinofsky

Accommodation is a benefit in kind so someone has to pay the tax, my guess is that the employer does. Many local people have their nose put out by the incomers getting their accommodation and other perks paid. The locals often do the same job and get the same basic salary but only the incomer gets the accommodation package. And the incomer can rent out the property in England. Kerching! Very often indeed, so-called j cat positions could have been filled by a local. I spoke to a very lowly employee at one of the offices recently. She was not local and could barely understand english. How, I found myself wondering, did they get that past the j category authorities? Unfortunately, abuse of J category positions by employers is widespread and adds fuel to the rather smug and self-satisfied “owe us a living” which we hear from incomers with nauseating regularity.

And yes, the matter of so-called “human resources” does add another layer of bureacracy to businesses. Oh for the days when managers and proprietors had the balls to sort out their own problems instead of feebly passing the buck to a faceless department of stooges!

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52

JerseyBoy

What I would like to know is who decides the these peoples salaries?

They are the real idiot!

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54

Mollitor

And people reckon States Members are well paid!

You can see the Civil Servants run this Island, its a bit like Organ Grinders operating Monkeys and the rates of pay proves it!

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56

BS Deluxe

Ex Pat 47

“Delegation is the key, it also promotes a team focused approach from my staff.”

Delegation is not a skill! What a load of management BS spiel in my opinion! You’re just dumping your work onto some other poor mug!!

If you are an example of the type of people Jersey is encouraging then this island is really scraping the barrel.

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58

Mr Sensible

Ex pat fair play to you, if you can get the dosh well, you deserve it, no doubt like all of us you will pay 20% of your earnings to Mr Tax man, spend your money in the local shops, your employer pays rent to a Jersey tax paying landlord , which we all benefit from in the long run. And if you have studied and worked hard to get where you are now Jersey could do with more like you instead of the work shy lot living off everyone else, obviously some people have to be on benefits through illness etc, i am not having a go at them.

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60

The Ex Pat

Dearie me lots of resentment here, “delegation is not a skill” whilst strictly true it’s a rare ability. Too many managers cling onto their department’s workload thinking that only they can do the work. This results in their time not being spent effectively and their team feeling that they are not trusted. A good manager should do only the work that no one else can do, why else are they paid more than others if they are doing the same work. Also how does the team progress except by inheriting greater responsibility to enhance their skill base, I’m still responsible, if they get it wrong it’s me the chief exec wants to see.

As for referring to “my staff” what else are they, they are staff allocated to me.

I’ve been surprised at the level of resentment I’ve faced since coming to Jersey, if locals were able to fulfil my role they would have been recruited. I pay tax and spend my money in the local economy, I provide a service that the island benefits from as the more money the company earns the more tax they pay, the more locals they employ and the greater security they bring to the island.

Mrs Bead ” I fear that bad luck will come your way” I don’t believe in luck, it’s an excused used by those who make no provision for their own future. If the worst happens I’ll relocate back to the UK, remove the tenants renting my house there and find another job.

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62

Hugh Janus

Ex pat # 70. You are right, delegation is the key to successful organisations. Also success isn’t about luck but about hard work. Unfortunately it is also about nepostism (not that I am suggesting it applies in all cases).

No matter how successful people are, my ethos is there is no contentment in wealth, but there is wealth in contentment. A lot of people might be well paid, but they aren’t always happy.

Do people need to be paid so much? Is money the only motivation? I hope not.

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64

roger phlegm

Hugh Janus 62
Good comments. However much you have, some others will have more. All you need is enough. That said, a life without the occasional terrine of foie gras, bowl of chilled Sevruga or lobster cocktail is barely worth living.

Mind, oysters are hardly expensive and yet few people eat them. Goes to show, anyone can be wealthy but you have to be born with taste.

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66

Pip Clement

‘That said, a life without the occasional terrine of foie gras, bowl of chilled Sevruga or lobster cocktail is barely worth living.’

I like foie gras but buy mine in France where it is cheaper and of better quality than any I have ever seen in Jersey and ‘horrors!’, ordinary French people eat it!
I no longer eat caviare on environmental grounds, most species of sturgeon are now critically endangered and some have reached the point of no return. I doubt anyone will be eating wild caviare in twenty years time as the wild sturgeon will have gone the way of the dodo.
I have always preferred crab to lobster which I think is over rated for the price.
Sadly money cannot buy you intelligence or taste despite what some people think, a sow’s ear will remain a sow’s ear no matter how much money you spend on it!

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68

Hugh Janus

Free At Last # 65. I sympathise with you; I have found it’s not what you know, but who you know.

I have a mere B.Sc(Hons), but found it difficult do get the jobs I wanted. Then when you do get a job you find that the hierarchy are far less qualified and frankly they are prone to indolence.

Thankfully I am now fairly well off, own my own home, have no mortgage, but earn nothing like £70k. As I said in an earlier entry, there is no contentment in wealth, but there is wealth in contentment. Happiness and having love for your family is far more important than money.

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70

Born Warrior

Oh no! It’s forum-troll time! Ex Pat (the 21st century corporate success with a 19th century approach to life in the workplace) and, of course, Rosemary Bead (introducing her super-businessman son ‘Willy’). However, there’s still a lot of truth in Ex Pat’s posts, although I’m not keen on the “my staff” remark, sounds like someone with no understanding of the realities of the modern office…I mean, the term is “my team” nowadays.

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72

My staff!

Weird as well the way that ex pat admits that he lets out the house back home while driving his employer {to whom he will be “my staff himself”, pompous term that that is) to pay for his housing here! As has been said, the local candidate is at a disadvantage there because an employer would laugh in your face if you asked the employer to pay for your housing while you let out the house at Grouville. But if you come in from outside, you can demand every last pound of flesh.

The practice of the regulation of undertakings office needs looking into because the discrimination against local people seems to begin when that department hands out licences in what would appear to be the most inappropriate and laughable “block exemption” contexts.

Marquis Cha cha; a self-confessed underachiever yet one who employs others? One thing is for sure, your view of locals seems a bit bigoted. Your slightly whimsical and self-deprecating tone lacks backbone. In fact, I cannot see any true Jersey person writing such weak willed twaddle so I assume you must be writing in jest

Anway, back to the point…yes, many public servants are overpaid and indeed, recruited from outside. Sometimes they know who they want but they still interview lots of (usually local) people in order to create a smokescreen. Who cares if they are wasting everyone’s time and breeding the resentment which is now beginning to manifest itself?

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74

Jersey nomad

Thanks, Pip. That provides some comfort.

It is not a level playing field at the best of times; local always seem to come second. Many times, I have seen (yes, I have been there as a local person!) or heard of employers deceitfully paying the incomer more than the local even where the two both hold similar positions and work side by side.

Eventually, there will be laws to prevent this kind of thing. It will be a little like employement law now; it is hard on the employer [which I now am, but I don't refer loftily to "my staff"] but, if the employer as class had behaved properly in the first place, then no law would have been necessary!

The word “resentment” has been raised. In general terms, resentment comes about when an individual or a group of persons is subject to something undesirable about which they can do little. The resentment grows when they are aware that “the mickey is being taken” by employers and the regulations of undertakings office. It positively festers when someone like ex pat shouts from the rooftops about how well he is doing and how we are lucky to have him here because we, as Jersey people, lack the intelligence to do whatever job he and his ilk have been jetted in to undertake!

At the moment, the ordinary jersey person can do little about the problem, such is the widespread, covert and collusive nature of what goes on. But the tide is, as ex pat has correctly identified, beginning to turn

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76

Hugh Janus

I’ve just heard from a civilian employee at Police Headquarters, that rather then cut the number of senior police officers in the States of Jersey Police, David Warcup is seeking to create even more posts in his senior management team.

So when the States talk of cutbacks, they will probably look at reducing the number of officers on the ground floor. Great; just what we need in the island, more pen pushers and fewer ‘doers’. More people on mega bucks in ‘non jobs’.

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78

Jersey Nomad

Regrettably, Disbelief. I don’t think you know what you are talking about. It perhaps is not worth dealing in toto with the points which you make. Rest assured, however, that local applicants are often if not nearly always second best and that elaborate charades are frequently in place when a position goes to an outside applicant. We are agreed that it makes no sense! I have lived in the UK, but I fail to see how the problems of crime etc in those countries is relevant to an issue regarding discrimination in the workplace. Did you consider that before trotting out the hackneyed comparison?

If you believe that the five year rule is properly enforced then you must have been born yesterday……..

And rest assured as well that jersey people are not born with a “silver spoon”. You have been reading too many lowly tabloids! I am anordinary jersey person who has worked hard and has, over the years, been put out by incoming applicants who are appointed for reasons which have little to do with actual ability. Most jersey people are also ordinary grafters so please forget the stereotype and, if you have a chip on your shoulder, remember that you knew about the housing laws when you came here and that you are free to leave at any time. The fact that you stoop to vulgar comments at the close of your post suggests that you need to think about your arguments and engage brain before resorting to playground name calling. Thank you BS deluxe, by the way.

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80

Marc

This is truly horrendous !!
70 K is wayyy too much money
Who is coming up with these salaries in the states ? Thats what i want to really know

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82

Name ANd SHame

No wonder the island is Skint! People rubbing their hands on a nice tidy sum wuthout too much to think about and if any thought is used it certainly does not deserve the £70k status. GReedy! POst office managers and heads should hide their heads in Shame. Top boss on £136K with £46K bonus recruited from UK!!

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84

Adrian

Disbelief if you think you are hard done by here try living in Hawaii. If you ain’t born there you are never allowed to buy. End of story. If the same happened here then maybe you would have reason to moan.

The five year rule? J-cats (none locals) can walk into a high paid job off the boat/plane.

As per doing 20 years I had to do the same and I am local. So I didn’t get preferential treatment over you did I?

At the end of the day I would have to say why live in a country if you aren’t happy with the way they do things? Would it be because the pound signs and the chance of a better life were too much to resist?

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86

Disbelief

Ah Adrian I’ve missed your pedantic observations.

The five year rule? J-cats (none locals) can walk into a high paid job off the boat/plane.

Only if the position they intend to occupy cannot be filled locally.

As per doing 20 years I had to do the same and I am local. So I didn’t get preferential treatment over you did I?

I think that you are misleading us in referring to the first 20 years of your life, unless you planned to buy a house whilst at school this is irrelevant. By the time you were in a position to buy a house and the mortgage company would lend you the money you already had your quals, not the same as waiting 20 years in a bedsit is it?

At the end of the day I would have to say why live in a country if you aren’t happy with the way they do things?

Boat out in the morning?

Of course by contrast you can move to my counrty, take any job and buy any house straight away as many of your brethren do.

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88

jerseysteve

I am a local, and have worked in Jersey all my life in the private sector; where I have been paid in excess of the £70k being talked about.

I have generally worked from 8.00am to 6.00pm Mon-Fri, without a lunch break (so 50 hours a week), and receive absolutely no perks other than a health scheme (no pension, car or other allowance).

The Unions have over the years negotiated very well with the States to the point where civil servants seem to work between 35-37.5 hours per week and then get overtime for any work outside of these hours. Great for some.

Personally if you can get a States job on £70k plus, work such few hours and get all the perks; then good luck to you.

In essence the problem is that the civil servants are not over worked like the rest of us mere mortals in the private sector, not all granted; but the vast majority, even thouse on lesser salaries.

It is the system that needs altering, but I am afraid the Unions are far too strong and simply would not give up any of there ‘well won rights’. A simple change back to a 42.5 hour working week could save a substantial amount of money (and yes – I accept that means painful redundicies for a number of people).

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90

Michael Too

I wouldn’t mind paying top dollar (mind you these amounts are way over that for such a small place)but but these people have performed very poorly. On the top man’s watch we have had the biggest loss of money with the incinerator and his number 2 cannot lump all the blame on the Treasurer after all he was the top dog in TTL at the time. Add the suspension of the Specislist Consultand plus the Police chief as well as the Syvret affair and the top man seems to have been totally inefficient. The three new health appointments are all overpaid as was the last “leader” and the Health Service is already overrun with managers. As for WEB, their leader has overseen the largest carbuncle visible to the eye in Great Brittain.(Plus the rest of the eyesore) Not one of them would similar pay in the UK civil service nor in the private sector. Why do you think all thes failures come here. The States are led by the nose by what certain people tell them!

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92

Sarah

Disbelief said:

“At the end of the day I would have to say why live in a country if you aren’t happy with the way they do things?

Boat out in the morning?”

Very true. Don’t forget as well that rules are in place in large countries like australia. As you have clearly recognised, immigration policies are a necessary evil, particularly in a small place like Jersey and people should indeed do a bit of research before they come and, as you have said, not feel obliged to stay if their expectations are not met when they do arrive.

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94

Chaucerian Godfather

Disbelief at 91. Read this slowly. Jersey small. Your country {wherever that might be) big!

Small place equals limited resources. Jersey is a small place with limited resources. It is also very attractive to the incomer.

Although you try and mimic the “boat out” cliche, common sense must ask………if it so bad, then why stay here? What you regarded as a substandard quality of life which you oh so painfully endured (and don’t we know it!) must have been better than your place of origin otherwise thy would surely have returned to whence thine came……

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96

Ronald Corbett

Quote:

“After over 20 years of being told I can go home if I don’t like it……”. I wonder why you were told that for twenty years?

It couldn’t have been, wait for it, because you were, dare I say, moaning could it? Not to put too fine a point on the convoluted matter, one finds that any host country will be inclined to suggest that you depart to a more convivial locus if the host makes you unhappy. I believe, and pray excuse my bringing this matter to your attention, that the countrymen of scotland, australia, ireland, new zealand, south africa and just about any place which one can contemplate would suggest a “going forth” in rather more abrasive and less polite terms that those which your delicate ear’oles encountered locally.

Why on earth did you remain somewhere which was clearly awful to you?

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