£1,250 a day
Saturday 19th June 2010, 3:00PM BST.
Senator Alan Breckon is calling for an end to the subsidy of the pool
TAXPAYERS’ money is being poured into the loss-making Waterfront swimming pool at the astonishing rate of almost £1,250 per day.
The States’ annual report and accounts have revealed that the 2009 subsidy to the pool, run by UK company Serco, totalled £455,866.
And at a time when the States are looking to cut things like school milk and the Christmas bonus, Senator Alan Breckon says that the vast subsidy undermines the work being done on the comprehensive spending review, the drive to slash ten per cent from States spending over three years.
The pool subsidy figure was tucked away in the second appendix to the 204-page report, which was published last week.
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There are certain things in life that have to have a cost, that do not make profits, no matter how much overheads are cut. The beauty of the swimming pool, is that the art of swimming can be properly taught to children and adults alike, in a safe and controlled area. This in turn can save lives at a later date.
It would be a better idea to make more use of the pool by competitions and galas, inter office challenges, water polo teams, etc. All of these events could be subsidised by the competing businesses. After all, the Swimarathon does OK doesn’t it ?
Come on Jersey ! Don’t blame the losses on the administrators of the pool, make more use of it !
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The Jersey public are just being taken for idiots once again, is there no end to it?
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Why not close it down….?
We’ve got Havre des Pas swimming pool.
Whoops….Just remembered the small matter of a lack of life guards, seepage from all the incinerator bottom ash buried around the corner and the lovely smell (and fungal spores) from the rotting compost that the powers that be keep blaming on the seaweed!
Just remind me again that the Ramsar status down the coast wasn’t an April fool’s joke?
SERCO in the UK made £212 million operating profit in 2009
They’re ‘avin’ a laf!
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well done alan ,why fort regent was ever allowed to go to pot ,has always baffled me , and why we prop the waterfront pool up in these tough times ,when cut backs are clearly needed, must leave many aghast, mind you its not the firstime the has been put into the public domain.
what is the terms of the ,nodoubt watertight contract?
pull the plug.
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the merton pool is self funding..
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Unbelievable! That money could have gone to re-opening the Fort Regent pool.
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Typical states of jersey goverment,given our hard earnt money to uk companies, why oh why did they not just redo fort regent pool.the money they have given the uk company is totally unjustified.Which plonker agreed to giving them our money? Its about time our ministers listen to the “locals” who year after year tell them the good ideas which they totally ignore and cost the island millions.they should all stand down.the fort pool was loved and used by many more than the ones using the waterfront,
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£450,000 per annum; by States of Jersey standards that must be regarded as an efficiency saving.
Less than a consultant’s report; less than a couple of CEOs. Bingo, shout in praise, it could have been a whole lot worse. At least we can go for a swim.
Cynical Sid says; “Why worry about the odd half million pounds when the real scandal is the millions going out the back door”. HELP JERSEY IS DROWNING.
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Well, I don’t often agree with Sen. Breckon, but this is a bit silly. Withdraw this subsidy that they have tried to hide, if a business doesn’t pay its way, it should close. (That’s what they said to Heritage, and I would rather have that).
User pays? That will be £100 each for the swim, thanks.
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oh well – let’s close it and let the families/children do without.
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Despite being run by a private company this is gulping down subsidy just like the old Fort Regent pool.
The fact is that the subsidy is more than enough to keep all the Heritage sites open and then some.
The States have to start to learn to prioritise and budget now the days of free money and plenty of it are over!
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Shocking ,just shocking!! makes me mad. sack all and every states member going ,sack em
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The Waterfront pool which is a private venture should not be subsidised by Jersey tax payers. If it is not working from a commercial perspective, it should be left to close.
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I wonder what the size of the directors salaries and bonuses of Serco were in 2009?
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The Waterfront pool as a private venture should not receive subsidiaries from Jersey tax payers. If the pool is not viable from a commercial pespective, it should close.
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I’d love to take my two kids on a regular basis but the water is too cold. They come out of the water with blue lips and shivering.
I’m sure it’s penny pinching which has driven the decision to keep the water so cold, but it’s a false economy because people are not using the facility, and I think it’s a fair bet that water temperature is a major factor.
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Well they aint spending the money on heating the pool, i’ve stopped using it as my boy was shivering the last time.I believe aqua splash is a waste of our cash ,sell it off and rebuild fort regent swimming pool, and why not an eden project throughout the fort…..oh yes i remember now, we are no longer interested in tourists visiting our island…bitter…..nah , can’t afford it mate.
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Interested bystander. Get real – or get out more.
Where on EARTH do you get the idea that a pretty looking luxury swimming pool is somehow ‘essential’?
Have you any idea at all what’s happening in the rest of the world?
Firstly, what was wrong with Fort Regent? Secondly, have you not noticed that wet stuff we’re surrounded by?! It’s called ‘the sea’ and is also made of water, but unlike this ridiculous homage to stupidity and waste, its FREE.
What on earth are the States thinking with this beer money and whiskey tastes attitude, wasting tax payers money on a loss making commercial enterprise in these difficult times?
What’ll it be next, subsidised 4 x 4s for ‘safety’, subsidised cruises for ‘stress’…maybe there’s a caviar company that needs a ‘helping hand’…?
Our Government is as out of touch as you are.
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I wonder who drew up the business plan for the pool? Why isn’t it attracting more customers? Maybe Too Cold # 16, has the answer.
Serco management team shouldn’t present us with a problem, they should come up with solutions. If not then they aren’t earning their pay.
Maybe the J.E.P. could do the island a service and run a survey on why people are staying away.
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Use Quennevais pool far nicer than Aqua & how many times do you use a chute.Open up the pool @ VC as well for the public,all this another WEB scam be as empty as Liquid club soon!!!!!
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Are the States contractually obligated to providing this support?
Have they agreed to a five / ten year support plan in writing when the pool was built?
Which politicians were involved in the decision making process and were part of the consultation procedure?
I suspect that we may not be able to extradite ourselves easily.
This is a huge amount of money and like a previous poster I would much rather see this money going to Jersey Heritage than to a UK company.
Out of interest, are they paying any taxes in the island since zero/ ten? I presume they are making a profit as the idea of a subsidy (in this case) is a stop/loss protection to ensure the company doesn’t lose money.
Want we need more than anything is accountability and traceability. Find out who was involved and allow us to vote accordingly in the next election.
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I regularly use the pool and it always seems busy. Just don’t get why it is costing so much on top of revenues it must be receiving.In the UK swimming pools are also being subsidised and in many areas are free to use. Like ‘Interested Bystander’ I think that this pool provides wider benefits than just being a leisure facility. I would be very disappointed if it were to close.
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Jersey need a swimming pool for old and young
However the civil servants who negoatiated the deal to pay this crazy money are fools and have been taken for a ride by a smart private company
It’s easy to give money away if it’s not your own
This happens far too often in the island. You can fool a civil servant some of the time and also most of the time. Suckers !
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Scarlet # 18. Sure the Island is surrounded by sea, but in the colder months many people prefer the warmer temperatures and security of an indoor pool.
There is no need to get agitated over the Interested Bystander’s view – it was after all only his view.
The Serco management team need to sort this out as it’s their faux pas, for not getting it correct on the projected demand for such a venue. The Island should not be expected to pour money down the drain like this.
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Ah, Serco. The company which appears to be taking taking over the world while nobody notices.
Keep an eye on Serco and their “deep public service ethos”, Topsy could have learned from them when it comes to growth.
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Talk about money down the drain and not a plug in sight!Seriously though this should not be allowed to continue.
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Classic example of privatisation, close down the public sector pool at the fort, just because of some political ideologly. Then open up a private sector pool, pay the directors a fortune and the taxpayers suffers yet again. The Public secotor works the private sector cannot benefit non profit organistions. Do we want our children to swim, or drown, it would appear drown id Ozouf ‘s answer, now there is no life gurad at Havre des Pas.
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Tis the tip of the ice berg, they paid handsomely to build it on their own land too. Remember this when PPP’s are touted as the way forward.
Thankfully we have got WEB to keep a watchful eye on situations like this; Son of WEB will sure have a lot to live up to.
We are where we are.
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For gods sake lisiten to the people for once and bring back Fort Regent
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“For gods sake lisiten to the people for once and bring back Fort Regent”
It just won’t happen, Kate.
Similar pools on the mainland which were ideal for the era in which they were built and for years to come are being encouraged by various interested parties to reach the end of their lives and are being demolished after being deliberately under maintained.
A great shame as they were ideal for swimming in. Fun pools with flumes and waves are a nine-days-wonder and do not impress regular swimmers, even ones like me who don’t want to hammer up and down clocking up lengths.
To the humorists who suggest all year sea swimming, I’m in the pool for over an hour. The sea isn’t warm enough for that nor is it as well laid out as a good old 1960′s pool.
I love the surf, from late August when it gets warm enough until early September when it starts cooling down. I also love a decent, no frills, indoor pool.
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Perspicuous,
Didn’t you mean “Where are we? Where are we?” ?
(With apologies to “There, Their, They’re”)
We seem to have lost our way big time.
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What happened to ‘user pays’?
Is it my imagination or didn’t ESC promise to open Le Rocquier school pool to the public in exchange for its refurb?? We’ve paid for some stunning school facilities (pools, sports, theatres), closed off after school hours… even Guernsey combined a school & theatre for evenings & weekends. Surely would fund itself as capital already paid & no directors/shareholders to pay?
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its time for a republic of jersey where the people have a say not the corprations who are in power
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so a u.k. company which is making a huge profit overall is being payed by us to plug a deficet on this particular pool?
this is sooooooo wrong. i don’t understand why jersey is involved with this deal, eg: you run our pool but don’t worry if you make a profit because we will look after you.
people in jersey, generally speaking need to get more involved in politics and have their say. after all the people who make these decisions are voted in by the public.
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Our “progressive” States members keep on bring such matters to our attention but remain void of any solutions or alternatives other than to employ even more staff.
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It could have been predicted.
Fort Regent was a magnificent facility that had everything a pool should have. It was a decent size and leant itself to major sports events, including diving and water polo, unlike this “novelty” pool that is leaking funds hand over fist. It had a decent viewing area for spectators too. I went to look at the pool on the waterfront when it opened and found it so offputting and not friendly in opening times or encouraging of serious swimming that I have NEVER been in it. I swim at les Quennevais when I get the chance, which is not often as I live in St Clement, but I’d rather trek out there than go to the waterfront, which I feel is a characterless wasteland.
Why Fort Regent, which was wonderful place for entertainment and sport as I was growing, was ever allowed to fall into the sort of state it’s now in because of transferral of funds to the waterfront, is beyond me.
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Fact: All public pools run at a loss.
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£450,000 per year – for what?
I am a member of this pool and it is busy most days with swimmers and families.
Where is all of the money going?.
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Only surprising that it’s taken this long for the scandalous situation to come to light! The (former) politician who should answer the questions as to how this came about is,I believe,Mike Vibert.As I recall,he was the main supporter of this venture,despite all the swimming organisations in the island being in favour of refurbishing FR pool, he went ahead anyway and look how much it has cost us.This is yet another example of our politicians totally ignoring local interests and being taken for a ride by outsiders with their glamourous ideas. The subsidies paid since the pool opened are probably about what the cost of refurbishing FR would have been.Haven’t they done well(again)!!Another(expensive) joke. Unfortunately,the idea of having more competitons etc.there would mean that the pool was closed to the public more and mean going to Les Q pool to swim..not very convenient if you live east of the Island!
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The difference between the Aqua pool and heritage sites is that building it meant jobs for the boys, contracts for the big corporates. No money for them if you just employ masons and curators.
The difference between the Aqua pool and the Fort Regent pool is that building it meant jobs for the boys, contracts for the big corporates. No money for them if you just maintain an existing pool.
Same story whatever issue you look at – listen to the people? why do that when the people don’t want their money spent in that way.
Better do more lines in more sand more often if they are going to take any notice. How about a tax-with holding protest – would only work if thousands did it.
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#1 INTERESTED BYSTANDER
I hear you but I have to ask – do we REALLY need to be spending all that money on a pool when we live on an Island and can use the sea anytime we choose ?
Last time I tried to take my two year old to the Aquasplash we were not allowed in due to swimming lessons, even though I did not wish to use the main pool but the shallower side one. I now always use Le Quennevais – which is much emptier and much more accommodating !
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‘Our “progressive” States members keep on bring such matters to our attention but remain void of any solutions or alternatives other than to employ even more staff.’
I say well done to Alan Breckon for struggling through to the second appendix of the 204 page report and bringing it to the public’s attention.
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Ok so we would have been better off to have re-fitted Fort Regent pool the real question is how do we get out and put it right.
Sell the Land down at the Waterfront and use the money to make the pool at Fort Regent work.
Make it part of the “Active” brand and it can also be used for Physio.
The money from the sale of that land could probably do more than just the pool.
If we are to subsidise a pool lets make it our own.
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Hmm another States subsidy for something that should be self funding, curious how Serco, the waterfront and Connex all got their contracts at the same time.
The pool and the entire waterfront development is a shambles.
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When i’m next putting through my tax returns, I will say that i’m not a member of Aqua Splash so that the can reduce my percentage that i’m paying. Chances would be a fine thing. Close it i dont earn enough to keep paying higher taxes to keep it opened. God i cant even swim.
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To me the biggest issue of this matter is not the £1250 a day tax payer funding, its the error of the states department who allowed this UK company to opperate this facility without the suitable contract with a subsidy clause within it !!
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Bravo, everyone patting themselves on their backs for saying how we should head back to the Fort (or never left), and we should stop the subsidies, well done. Now engage your brains for a moment, and remember how the Fort swimmming pool had a vast amount of asbestos in the ceiling (hence it remains standing an vacant), let’s also think about the subsidies paid to Connex for the bus service. People need to realise that your taxes will go towards paying for things which are generally for the greater good of the population, not a few individuals. We are surrounded by water, so swimming tuition is vitally important to many. The Aquasplash is used by many primary and secondary schools for swimming lessons which cannot all be catered for at Les Quennevais. If we had the opportunity to select which services we wanted our taxes to go towards then you could quite happily choose not to contribute to the pool, but this is not the system we have. Yes, we all believe that the States need to cut spending and there are certainly areas where contracts need to be renegotiated, but to call for the closure of the pool, and for the subsidies to stop is just a further waste of money when we’ll have an empty pool needing a total overhaul. The mistake was made many years ago to site the pool on prime real estate, and not to sort the Fort out, but please people, just engage the brain when calling for subsidies to private co.s to be cut, remember the bus service has been run in this manner for years.
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I first arrived in Jersey in 1980, a naive refugee from the troubles in Northern Ireland. At that time, Fort Regent was in full swing and, let me tell you, I loved it. I was in that pool many times over the next 20 or so years,and I don’t think that there was ever anything wrong with it. I have been away from the island now for a number of years and, therefore, have never seen this new theme park, but it sounds to me like those daft politicians have messed up again….quelle surprise!
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Dear Sir.
Please can you subsidize my business as i currently make a loss of £1,250 per day (but i also pay myself £150,000 a year!)
Kind regards.
Jambo
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rb bougourd (25).
i had a look at the serco web site.
and see that the share price was over £6.00.
these people do not need a penny of our taxpayers money.
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I use the pool on a regular basis and would be disapointed if it closed.
I recall the Fort being closed becuse it was out of date and not economical to run – sadly this is true of most swimming pools. The Waterfront is no different.
I’ll happily pay more – provided that my looking after my health in this way is subsidised by all the smokers and drinkers that put a drain on our health service!
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Well done Alan Breckon..this is exactly what we want our politicians doing…looking out for our interests and taking unpopular action in highlighting wrongs….This waste would have continued unabated without his awareness…now it MUST be acted on..watch this space.
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IMO Serco are adept st sucking money from the taxpayer, as governments want to be creative with the books, and try and hide the cost of providing us with services. Like C(*)apita, they represent poor value for money, often providing a worse service ( be it a swimming pool, housing benefit, or the detention & supervision of asylum seekers) at a higher price.
This deal always looked bad, much like Connex, they got us stitched!
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A few years ago, Serco charged me 40 pounds for parking outside Cineworld to pick up my child from a birthday party at Aquasplash. I hope they go bankrupt.
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I do hope that anyone out there who supports this ridiculous farce and thinks it oh-so-essential has read the interesting article, ‘Tax Bombshell’, and still thinks it’s such a terribly good idea…
let’s see…
a higher rate of income tax for earnings over £100,000…
a GST rate of 5%…
raising the social security ceiling…
tripling rates contributions…
still, I’m sure you’ll pay up willingly if it means you can still have the occasional swim in the state of the art swimming pool we all subsidise.
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Aqausplash received £90 plus a set up fee from me for 3 months membership for myself and my daughter.
That was until I realised that when I was allowed to swim my daughters pool was closed, then turned up and was not allowed to use the pool due to swimming lessons taking up the whole thing, and lastly as above, it was TOO COLD!!!
NOT an enjoyable experience. Makes you laugh how we swim for exercise, yet in the lobby they have chocolate bar/fizzy drink machines and a KFC right outside!!!!
Give me the Fort back anyday, used to spend all weekend up there swimming, playing outside on the ever changing rides etc it was BRILLIANT.
Aquasplash membership has now been cancelled!!
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Instructions on how to make a swimming pool.
1. Dig a big hole in the ground.
2. Place thick material (for insulation) at bottom of hole (e.g. council of ministers).
3. Pour in cement
4. Allow cement to dry.
5. Fill with water.
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If the pool is being subsadised with tax payers money does this mean as a tax payer we get in free? If the company that owns the aqua splash payed tax like local companies have to, they would be paying for the shortfall not us. Serco should bow there heads down in shame for this.
If a company runs at a loss there is a serious problem with the management, If most of the local companies did this they would not get States funding.
What was wrong with the fort pool, was this running at a loss?
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We are being made mugs of by the BIG corporates and politician who signed up for this – step forward please and declare yourselves – should stop this natural disaster right now, even if its costs money now to cancel a contract of sorts. Big corporates of UK are laughing at Jersey as an easy target for instant readies. We don’t need this rubbish!!
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Does’nt this all just leave a foul taste.
Someone is taking someone for complete fools (yep, that’s us lot).
Why can’t we ever seem to get value for OUR money ?
OR, is it that others are using alternative methods of accountancy.
And Ozouf is letting this go on.
Please do the honourable thing and resign, as this is what you’re position is to oversee and sort out…BUT YOU HAVE’NT.
So we’ll all be asked to cough up more to perpetuate these money spinners. For these companies it’s like a guaranteed lottery win every day.
I would just love to find out the names of shareholders involved, yes, even the ones who try to hide behind other companies to avoid detection…..you know you’re out there .
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They should’ve just redeveloped Fort Regent!
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If I can ask a company or contractor to justify their invoice to me i.e. labour/hours spent, materials purchased etc before I pay said invoice then perhaps we as tax payers should ask the treasurer if they can justify our tax bills before we pay them. I’d quite like to go to the courts for forfeiture of payment of my income tax bill and explain to the judge why I wasn’t willing to pay my income tax this year as I didn’t agree with pretty much most of the profligacy of states spending and until such time as they do I will be keeping my money were it can do most good, in my pocket.
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Come on local and british !! you don’t provide much for children and you want to close this swimming pool !!! ok fair enough, some attractions in it is not a necessity but if you calculate this £1250 cost per day represents only £5 per personn for the year !!! you can afford to pay £10 a day for your dayly beer consumption but when it comes to children and the future of this island you think wrongly !! when i see some people moaning about this £1250 cost this makes me laugh and I see some people in this island how idiots they are, when i see how much money i spend for nursery, taxes as a non qualified personn, YOU make me sick moaning for just £1250.
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My solution would be to turn Fort Regent over to an up market Casino company- they would pay to refurbish the place and would have to pay the States to but the plot.
This money would be used in turn to cover the cost of our essentials instead of wasting it on pretty flowe beds on the Avenue and countless consultancy advice for various rubbish projects around the island eg The Waterfront- the only place in Europe around a marina which looks like a wasteland.
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#63 CG, the point is that this is ALL taxpayers’ money, not just the money of those that use the pool. Those that use it should pay for it, not the rest of us (save for paying for lessons for school classes which I do think is important when living on an island).
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Can someone put the plug back in please.
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Who is accountable for this debacle? They should be named and shamed, 1/2 million pounds per year, for how many years has this gone on?? absolute disgrace! If that had been a private company, he/she would have been sacked on the spot!
And the worrying thing is, this probably isn’t the only thing our States are hiding from us taxpayers. They might as well wear a tricorne hat, eyemask and call themselves Dick Turpin!
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Can we turn the water from the pool into Milk for our children to drink? That might be cheaper than paying for such luxury. BTW, the transport system is essential to Island life and I would agree to more subsidies and stop the rot. Serco are laughing at us, at least the shareholders are, step forward Mr Serco shareholders………… too afraid. Ah well, fill ya pockets as you probably don’t live in Jersey.
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The pool is running at a loss cos no one wants to exercise these days, that why everyone is a fattie! Swimming pools are also dirty places full of clorine and pee!!
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Who is to blame for the Aqua Pool set up ? The same people who are charge of the iconic waterfront.
WEB.
Representation on behalf of the States of Jersey up until recently, by Chief minister, Le Suer and Treasury minister Ozouf, although to be fair the pool predates them but unsure about Senator Le Suer who may have been treasurer at the time.
Interestingly Le Suer and Phillip Ozouf both sit on the States Employment Board. The same board that decides on remuneration and bonuses for WEB staff and also who to suspend.
Davey.
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Sorry the above post should make clear that Senators Le Suer and Ozouf are still on the SEB but two other states members have just recently also been appointed.
Davey.
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SMG
Posted June 28, 2010 at 12:17 pm
THE JEP should learn to get the facts CORRECT before printing. Most people in jersey hated the Fort Pool before it was closed because of the dreadful access problems to it. It was only when there was talk of a new pool being built on the Waterfront, that people started saying ‘they love it’ all of a sudden.
FACT:2000 MEMBERS USE THE POOL EACH WEEK
FACT: 132O PUPILS ARE BEING TAUGHT TO SWIM IN THE POOL weekly and that’s before you count all the schools and nursery children who use it on a weekly basis too because of it’s EASY ACCESSIBILITY with parking for their busses and transport right outside…
COME ON JERSEY – the Fort will never re-open – MAKE IT INTO A SKATE PARK FOR ALL THE TEENAGERS; BEST PLACE FOR THEM – LOTS OF SPACE FOR SLOPES AND HILLS – which is what they want.
STOP being selfish – it is 2010! the AquaSplash pool is there to STAY.
Start enjoying it! If you can get in of course!!! It is very busy!
Read more: http://www.thisisjersey.com/2010/06/21/another-waterfront-mystery/#comments#ixzz0sFb7tVBE
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