Tax bombshell
Monday 21st June 2010, 3:00PM BST.
Islanders could soon be paying 5% GST
ISLANDERS should brace themselves for a tax bombshell after ministers unveiled options for new taxes worth £50 million.
A higher rate of income tax for earnings over £100,000, a GST rate of 5%, raising the social security ceiling and tripling rates contributions to the States are all options considered by the Fiscal Strategy Review, a consultation green paper published this morning.
With the dust still settling after plans for cuts were unveiled a fortnight ago, the Council of Ministers have followed up with a new consultation on tax, although they say that the final tax increase may be less than the full £50 million.
The money is needed because ministers want to attack the impending structural deficit from both ends – through the £50 million comprehensive spending review that will cut ten per cent off States budgets over three years, and through increasing income through new taxes.
Study the full report: Fiscal Strategy Review
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Is Ozouf a lunatic? Do they think we are mad?
How many times: Cut waste, cut states staff / spending 10-20% and STOP CAPITAL PROJECTS.
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You know people would be more inclined to tighten the collective belt if we weren’t seeing money pi**ed away on unnecessary projects like the avenue resurface or housing subsidies to allow those that can’t afford it to buy a house.The work on the avenue should have been shelved unless it wasn’t fit to drive on ( and don’t ask me how it can take 9 months to resurface less than 2 miles of road)
Meantime we see the rich routinely dodging taxation and politicians giving themselves free parking and pay rises.
Lets start by managing the resources we have competently, then introduce taxation in a fair and appropriate manner ( ie based on income and ability to pay )
The people have had enough! It’s time to revolt, yes Mulvie is revolting.
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If they increase tax to 30% we will in affect have a cooperate tax rate of 30% as individuals now pay cooperate tax under 0-10 meaning that our cooperate tax will be higher than the UKs 28%. Watch and see how many people and companies leave. then house prices will crash and the island will be ruined.
Do the states not get the fact we have always been a successful island thanks to low tax why now do they want to keep raising it??
This will be the end of Jersey. I will not invest another penny here while they even talk about this. I am investing overseas as I now really worry jersey is going destroy itself through tax and spend.
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No surprise here then. Wring the taxpayer dry. It would appear the States are unable or unwilling to curb their massive overspending. Look what is happening in the UK, the new Government are axing large capital projects, freezing pay and cutting department budgets.
Why cant they do the same here? Are you really telling me that not one department can make £1 in savings? Do our ‘leaders’ lack the ability to rationalize any expenditure that would really save money, or is letting a few lifeguards go their very best efforts . . . ?
If so then Jersey in some serious trouble.
How about stopping handouts to non Jersey profit making companies for starters? Should save about half a million a year . . !
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I don’t really know what to say other than l told you so
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What a joke, this place gets worse and worse!
Is this too pay for Le Squez to be rebuilt!!
Or is it for the public service sector payrises and pension deficits!!
Most people in Jersey would now be better off not working, claiming benefits and living in lovely states accomodation!
Whereas the hard working people of Jersey suffer. I wish i could afford a house! I’m sure the states wouldn’t give me one, unless i quit my job and become a drug/alcohol addicted bum with 12 kids.
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Ok lets just raise GST to 10% in 1 fowl swoop. Will bring in 100 million extra straight away or lets cut our coat according to our cloth.
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And we can all see the result now. Rates will increase and GST will go up, both will hit the low earners far harder than anyone else. Increase the cap on social? Add a new tax band for people earning six figures? no chance, this will affect too many of the friends of certain ministers. The comment says it all.
Senator Ozouf said: “I would also say that I think it’s going to be very difficult to conceive of a situation were we would introduce a high rate of tax and lift the cap on social security – that would be hitting higher earners twice.”
That’s right, the person who is proposing these tax changers fell that its bad to hit higher earners with taxes that ALREADY hit those less well off.
The comment that it will make jersey less competitive is a joke, are we really expected to believe that jersey can only exist if we cater for the rich at the expense of everyone else… Oh, that is how its currently working..
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Ding – Ding! Round one, the cuts totalling £50 million are designed to send an early message to the council of ministers masters ‘the financial markets’ that the States of Jersey can be trusted to serve the needs of the all powerful finance industries and big businesses.
The working class people in Jersey are already suffering from rising inflation. Inflation and a GST increase combined, and given that pay levels are been held down (the minimum wage) and even cut for some workers this will take a terrible toll on living standards for the working class and middle Jersey.
How can people who are been thrown into poverty, losing their jobs and maybe their homes ‘accept pay freezes or redundancy’.
Or the young people of Jersey who can’t even get a job or afford the ever increasing fees for a university place?
The austerity programme is increasingly looking less like economics and more like a political project to restructure the States of Jersey and roll back support for not just the poor and vulnerable but the services on which middle jersey depends upon. I may not be an economist, but nor is Senator Ozouf.
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Why fill a bath when the bath is leaking?
CoM joined up thinking? No!
We waste money like there is no tomorrow. Cap all spending and then trim back the budgets of States Departments. Minister will not play ball? Cohen and Power, come to mind; sorry boys no money, time for you to go!
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It’s all a circle, taxing people gives people less disposable income therefor less spent in the shops therefore less GST coming in. Why don’t the states just stop squandering our money and start taxing the obscenely rich properly
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Quelle Surprise!!
Here are five suggestions on how to fill the black hole, created by Messrs Walker and Le Sueur.
1. Stop spending money you don’t have.
2. Stop wasting money on silly architecture, reshuffles, outsourced experts, subsidies for inefficient companies and consultants.
3. Reduce the number of civil servants, their salaries and perks.
4. Make everyone accountable, you cock up your’e out, not suspended for two years on full pay.
5. Sell some of the white elephants the states own for a PROPER sum. e.g. Fort Regent to a casino.
6. REDUCE taxes.. yes REDUCE.. people spend more when they have money in their pockets, they can’t spend what they don’t have!
7. I believe we have something called the rainy day fund? The COM were quick to spend £40m on a stimulus package for ‘Developers’ and undertaking states works which otherwise would not have got funding – time to stop squeezing the tax payer and actually give something back.
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BEFORE increasing or creating taxes in any form, has the tax office ensured that ALL island residents are paying 20 means 20(with the exception of those below tax thresholds)?…or do we still have 1(1)k residents who entered on a special agreement and are paying a nominal figure or token gesture?
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And they want to start the biggest Island wide quango of all after having screwed up two goes at WEB….they have neither the discipline or acumen to be trusted,,it would be another giant dosh for the boys scam and we the Taxpayer will have been milked again while these gangsters live the life of Reilly at our expense..Stop it ..just Bloody well stop it.
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Someone commented that those in charge need to cut their coat according to their cloth. This surely means the possibly of cutting back on the huge payments to some of those in senior posts in the public sector.
Those earning States employees earning over £70,000 should pay a higher rate towards their pensions and those States employees on £100,000+ should pay even more towards their pension. If they threaten going on strike; well I imagine we wouldn’t even notice their absence.
I wonder what would occur if these senior members of staff were paid by results, or piece work – a fixed rate for each unit or action produced? That would make huge savings because they often produce zero, zilch, nothing.
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All of this Jersey financial downturn happened on Ozouf and Le Sueur’s watch. It is their total incompetence that has caused this black hole, which he does even know how much it is. Last week it was £50 M now £100 M, were did that come from.
They appointed Ogley who has done nothing except employ dozens of civil servants with salaries almost as high as his. Did he train up the local population, no more UK imports, like health who want to employ more UK imports to cut the local jobs. This Island has gone mad. Remember these two at the next election.
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Typical!
Maybe the COM can employ more manages to help arrange this lunacy?
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All this so they can continue to waste taxpayers hard earned money.It really makes me sick to the stomach. Too many politicians for such a small island, Too many civil servants clock watching & too many U.K. consultant’s that the politicians take no notice of as it does not suit them to do so. That is where to make the deficit up.
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Ooops! …and then there is the tax per plane to contend with! Have you all worked out the consequences then? With Ryanair 75-85% load factors not a problem! flying will probably get cheaper!!!
But er with 50% load factors over the winter I don’t think so. Answer? chop the service altogether. I mean with 40% of any winter service half full the tax will make the service uneconomic. Ooops!
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The assult from within. Well when more people become bankcrupt and in need of handouts the states will have to pay more in wellfare, We pay plenty to the idiots who run this island and they turn a deaf ear against us when we make valid suggestions to reduce the deficit. We are intelligent people (we must be to work in an island dominated by finance) we make suggestions of more effective ways than taking more tax than we the workforce of Jersey can afford, Politicians are full of empty promises at election time but then the power turns them. What will it take to show you we have almost nothing left to give? The stress and pressure of trying to pay an above average mortgage to provide a home and protect a family can force people to do dangerous and desperate acts? wake up COM realise what you are doing has plenty of effect on the Jersey folk who are just trying to live, we do not have limitless amounts of cash and you are draining your only faithful resource because it is the easiest target we are being penalised for your bad judgement.
VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE TO ALL THE COM if this is pushed forward
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Haha welcome to the real world Jersey!!!! Want first class Health, Finance, Hotels, Schools….You have to pay. It will be 30% across the board because otherwise the finance and the rich will leave and then its good night Vienna. Best of luck though….I love reading your insular views on life and the world…makes me giggle when I come in from reality…..
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We could make a big cut in States spending by putting all States members on mimium wage, making them pay for their own lunches and parking, that would give us alot of saved money, sell the steam clock who looks at it ? Why should the low paid pay, the states members wont want to be taxed more on their bigh wage. With out the low class people on this island who is going to do all the s**t job it wont be the rich or the states members. So maybe the rich should be paying their way and helping the not so rich. If they dont like it maybe they should think the same as the low paid and try and get of this island.
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This is what happens when you give a man’s job to a boy with no experience – we’re reaping what we have sown ! ! !
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Can I suggest – a 1% capital gains tax…
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WTF…tripling rates……
Can’t afford them at the moment, and even those, like many things have to go on the credit card.
We know that the pension fund is running out so are being told to save money for the future, but every year i’m actually earning less.
What a joke !!!!!!!
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We need to ask the States how much tax from retailers they gave up when they moved to 0\10 as corporate tax regime.
Then we need to introduce a retail tax to catch all those retailers with who are owned by non Jersey shareholders. These are not finance companies so are not caught by the 10% tax regime.
This appears to mean that the likes of WH Smiths and Next and Monsoon pay no income tax at all on their profits when someone who owns a small corner shop bears the full weight of income tax as a shareholder.
Sandpiper the island’s biggest retailer which may make a fortune though its high prices appears to pay no income tax as it is owned by Duke Street Capital in London. Liberation which owns most of the pubs is also not locally owned.
So introduce a retailers’ tax at 20% and allow local owners to offset their income tax against this.
Surely this would fill the black hole?
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this is what you get when they spend all the money on crap.
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Surprise surprise another mess up by the states, get rid of your private plane and other bits that go with it, reduce spending on yourselves….and get a team in that knows what they are doing….as its seems there is a bunch of muppets running this island…the states are constantly ripping people off we are in a RECESSION or have they forgotten….useless…again the rich get richer and poor get poorer
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All of you:
How did you vote at the senatorial elections last week?
How many of you actually bothered to vote?
And if you didn’t, what the hell makes you think you have the right to complain now?
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Ozouf has grasped the nettle at least.The good times are over and it is time to examine why we have a defecit and what can be done to reduce it,without increasing local taxation.
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16. Anon
Anon
Posted June 21, 2010 at 5:47 pm
“All of this Jersey financial downturn happened on Ozouf and Le Sueur’s watch. It is their total incompetence that has caused this black hole, which he does even know how much it is. Last week it was £50 M now £100 M, were did that come from.”
Much as it pains me to say – the above comment is an over simplification of the facts. The pensions that are causng a huge chunk of the black hole where set up decades ago and that is where the big problem lies.
No cost cutting would be necessary if the civil servant pensions hadm’t been so generous!
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I have a mortgage, two children and a wife who is unable to work. I earn a good (not fantastic but good wage) When GST first came in my income JUST covered living costs.
WHAM! Then all the retailers and services hiked up their prices to pay their top boys enough to cover GST costs so their profit margins would remain unscathed..
WHAM! then the states announce that the new tax doesn’t cover the shortfall anyway.
WHAM! then we get to the point where the states members in their ivory tower say.. School milk, life guards, bus passes etc (saving £1million only) or higher taxes?
I am in debt.
I have not had a payrise in 5 years.
I cannot afford to live here now.
Yes I am selling up, and I am moving. Thats four locally born people leaving and I will not be sorry to see the back of the island.
The council of ministers starting with walker have ruined and raped this island.
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Ozouf ain’t stupid.
He’s making the point.
If you vote against cuts, if you vote to spend £10m on a town park, if you vote against tax increases on beer and fags, then…
WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM?
Time Southern, Power, Higgins, Macon and the other spenders were asked to make difficult choices. Because spending lots and getting others to pay the bill isn’t an option.
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#27 fed up.
I think your comment sums up everything. Superb.
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Best wait and see what is going to happen in the Uk after them emergency budget today.
They are going to have a mass reduction of civil servants, we could sack some of ours on 200k a year and replace with some of the surplus ones from the UK on 50k.
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And thats why im leaveing Jersey. BOO-YEA!
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Here’s what to do:
Public sector pay freeze for 3 years
Increase NI threshold
Look to sell off States owned non-core interests (e.g. car parks, harbours, airport)
Close all final salary based pension schemes for civil servants and close existing schemes to new contributions
Allow a casino
Relax entertainment legislation and try to make jersey a viable weekend destination again.
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Didn’t the states just make £70 million more than expected last year?!!!
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#15 Soooooooooo true!
#21 Jim, you obviously don’t know anything about Jersey if you are unaware that there are many people here who have lived ‘reality’ all their lives. Not everyone is rich, and some of those that are worked bloody hard for it all their lives!
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Sewer Cidal # 32 – I am saddened by your plight, but be careful. I’ve spent most of my life in Jersey, apart from 10 years in H.M.Forces and recently moved to the U.K.looking for better opportunites.
I quickly learned that the grass isn’t always greener on the other side – there are few employment opportunities and pay isn’t that great.
Whatever you do, I wish you all the best.
I wonder if the ‘fat cats’ read these submissions…..I’ll bet they don’t give a stuff as they sing, “I am busy doing nothing working the whole day through, trying to find lots of things not to do….”
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Interesting to note that in the UK they are trying to cut spending by 80% and raising the balance in taxes.
Jersey – softly softly approach 50% each.
We desperately need to get away from this raise tax mentality to cover over spends – DONT SPEND WHAT YOU HAVE NOT GOT. Its not rocket science
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Aren’t Jersey looking at arresting Curtis Warrens £120 million, that would plug the gap. I’d just love to watch Ozouf and Le Sueur go to his cell and tell him!!!
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32 – Sewer Cidal – so sad to read your comment and how many people are in the same boat as you? Many of us who are middle Jersey taxpayers are just keeping our heads above water, particularly if we have a mortgage.
You are spot on though – this is Frank Walker’s legacy and still people vote in exactly the same kind of candidates – what does it take to wake the electorate up?
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Hugh #40:
It has been a tough decision and the rose tinted glasses came off a long time ago. The grass may not be greener, but there is grass not the bare earth dust bowl that Jersey will become soon.
Our esteemed states and COM appear oblivious to the plight of the man in the street.
It is simply a case of if I want the best for my family, on the money I can earn then Jersey is NOT the place to be. The once attractive and pituresque island with a good community spirit, low crime and sense of identity has gone.
I can no longer afford to live here.
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I suppose another way of looking at this is; if all of those who are moaning that they cannot afford to live here got on the ‘next boat in the morning’. Then we would be rid of all of those who are a drain on our finances with rent rebates and social security support and this would solve half the problem.
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Once again the states take the easy way out.
The COM and states MUST get their own house in order before putting more misery on the tax payer.
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‘T’ # I think Terry & Phil will have to wait for Warren’s millions until after his appeal case. In the meantime maybe they could go cap in hand to him and ask for a sub.
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I pay 10K a year to the tax man and what do I get in return?
A load of greedy States workers and scroungers taking my money – and now they want more?
I shall simply elect not to pay tax from now on. If I were to obtain poor quality services from elsewhere then I could in contract law refuse to pay for that poor service and withold payment.
I suggest all of us elect not to pay taxes any more.
I would love to see the tax man take me to Court and argue that I should pay for a corrupt, wasteful, and useless service. I don’t agree with final salaries, I dont agree with the management structure, I dont garee with the pay rises, I dont agree with the public spending – so why should I have to pay for it?
Stand up you fools!
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When they first instruduced GST they said it would raise funds in the first year for around 50 million if im not mistaken, and over a operiod of 3 years i would like to ask were that money has gone as each year GST must be bringing in a few bob…already..putting GST up to 5% will only encourage the shops to rip us off even more.. isnt there a watch dog or somebody who we can go to about this price rises on everything.. something says 1.00p on the packet the put 1.05 pence on already…imagine when it goes up again 1.00p will be 1.25p.. im selling up anf Effin off to Oz whos coming..????
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45. Boris – It isn’t those who are unfortunate enough to be on Income Support who are leaving the Island – it’s those who are paying the taxes and who can no longer afford to live here and that’s really bad for the economy.
More often than not it’s the middle Jersey taxpayer who gets to foot the bills……so what happens to Jersey when they can’t afford to pay any more?
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Until their put their house in order, I will refuse to pay any further taxes, I will REVOLT and RISE just like GREECE citizens. Anyone with me? States workers are getting paid a lot of our hard earned cash. States wages bill is supplying inflation and house price madness, wages of £200k for the Bailiff?? check out the report, the total wage bill is over £40m
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Mac
Does it really matter if we do or do not vote as they will never stick to what they promise.
I did not vote nor have I ever voted, yet I am no worse off than all of you that have.
What I am really trying to get to is that whether you vote or not we all have a say cause it’s not just voters tax monies that get p*&%ed down the pan but non voters tax money also!
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#45 Boris, those are exactly the people you would be left with! It is the ordinary, hard-working person that is struggling, the others get everything for free (well from our taxes). You would just have LESS people to pay for the scroungers, how would that suit you exactly?
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Brian cant at 33 is quite right. If Ozouf wasn’t dealing with the deficit, you’d all be whinging. These are OPTIONS for discussion. In the magical world of the JDA, Chief Minister Southern would preside over an Island where no-one pays any tax at all,everything is free, the sun always shines and people are nice to old folks and puppies…. Meanwhile, in the real world, we have to take difficult decisions to deal with a difficult situation. If they can do that in the UK, surely we can do it here.
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Oh Boris
Oh dear that line again ‘next boat in the morning’. Incase you & many others who use that same pathetic line have forgotten Jersey has an Airport as well as a Harbour. To what I can see it’s you locals (I take it your local) that drains this Island of it’s
finances with rent rebates and social security support as it seems to be beneath many to get off their mostly fat arses to go out & get a job.
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For You & Me # 54, there are few options. The Island’s government must cut it’s coat according to the cloth it has available. For this the States must keep a closer eye on spending and make cuts where necessary. Also, tax rises are probably inevitable – we need however to make sure that everyone is treated fairly and that the sick and elderly are looked after.
To prevent this sort of thing occurring in the future, we can not afford to have the weak management we have in States Departments today. They have awarded themselves more and more, whilst they produce less and less and the States have let them get away with it. You can not have Rolls Royce life style on a bicycle budget.
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#54 I agree with #56. The difficult decision needing taken is the States realising they are incompetent at handling our money and doing something about it. Some of our millions might as well just have been thrown into a bonfire such was their care over it.
It’s pretty damn cheeky to ask the public for more of their hardearned cash when they have no reason to trust you with it. If we want to throw it away at least let us choose how we go about it. The UK are making cuts, but they are making some of those cuts in areas where money has been squandered (fingers crossed).
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#32 I left the island last year and although it was tough to find work I have now secured employment and the future is bright.
The so called elected government do not care what the people who are giving them the money to waste think. When was the last time that you saw Ozouf or LeS say that they ar listening ?
The people who say that if you didn’t vote can’t complain, the old school always get in and there is little anyone can do about it.
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What about the 100 million pounds spent on a brand new oversizd incinerator at Havre-des-Pas? Jersey people really stuck their heads in the sand when they should have revolted.
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“The Island’s government must cut it’s coat according to the cloth it has available.”
Nope, the States are planning to increase the supply of cloth, most likely by increasing GST to 5%+
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59. Toastredteacakes – many of us did protest long and hard about the incinerator – we told Senator Ozouf and those concerned, time and again that this was not a good option for Jersey, it was too big, too expensive, in the wrong place and there were possibly better options out there but they wouldn’t listen. They had decided at the outset to build this monster and take GCI’s rubbish and there was nothing we could do about it.
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There are over 6,000 civil servants in Jersey – that is at least one government employee for every 15 people! This is unsustainable.
If services were streamlined this number could be dropped by 10%. If each of these employees were earning £25k that would be an immediate saving of over £20 Million (£15 million in basic wages, social security, HR and pensions).
Interestingly enough the resistance to this doesn’t seem to be coming from the Ministers but the employees themselves which is understandable. We must have Ministers with the backbone to ensure these savings are made.
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Zero-Ten – the reason for this ‘black hole’ – was not the idea of the States – it was forced upon them by the EU. But, in the recent senatorial election, the only candidate whose literature/website made any mention of this dangerous organisation was Gerard Baudains, which is why I voted for him. Our destiny has been taken out of our hands – not by the UK, who have pretty well left us alone for 800 years – but by this anti-democratic monster. Wake up Jersey and start talking about the elephant in the room.
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16 anon and 31 Cathy – I agree with both these comments.
It’s worth noting also that although local people might be interviewed for public sector vacancies, under Bill Ogley’s HR management there is a mentality that anyone from the UK has got to be better qualified/more experienced and generally gets the job (particularly for the higher grade positions)- even if a local person would be happy with a lower salary and is perfectly capable of doing the work.
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Seriously though we have to do something; start with rubbish collection, make it island wide and cut through 12 levels of management and save some money. Put parking attendants on commission only say 25% of fines taken. Go the whole hog and put GST up to 20% as with VAT in the UK.
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The same types keep getting in to the States because the rich condition their family and kids to vote no excuses…so they always turn out..so they can hang onto power/ergo the dosh..whereas the working man has said to himself what’s the point.!”They” don’t listen to us and so the power kiddies rejoice as you have played right into their game.. like taking candy from a baby..the more people who vote the greater and more appropriate the representation..and so fairer and more accurate Government,To not vote is to be kept in the dark,fed lies and b/s and be thoroughly taken advantage of…Your call.
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I was talking to the Deputy of the parish where I live at the last Senatorial elections and he was pretty ignorant about how Westminster worked and that enjoys a lot of television coverage.
I doubt many members understand Jersey’s relationship to the EU or how it works at all. It is all pretty arcane and the only paper that really covers it in the depth it deserves is the Financial Times and how many States members do you think crack open a copy of that paper while scoffing down their cornflakes in the morning?
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Capital gains tax…that’s the way forward so the people making the money are correctly taxed…U.K. now 28% we could start at 5% and soon fill the coffers…thus negating the need for other unfair taxes…but unless the spending is ruled with a rod of iron it would all be futile as these politicos aided by an irresponsible civil service spend money like a drunk teenager with someone elses credit card..it’s not theirs and they don’t care….
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Brian,
The EU did not force Jersey to have zero ten! it was put forward by the states. If it was a EU idea why have they been trying to get the island to scrap it!
What you mean to say is the EU wanted Jersey to have a financial tax structure and step away from the Tax haven status, the states contemplated this and decided to go with zero ten, Zero for non local companies and ten percent for financial money movements and Uk based rental property companies (Banks). The reason the states opted for the zero option for non local based companies was to stop them leaving the island and thus loosing the companies.
The funny thing about this is the zero status companies make more money than there uk outlets because its non taxed, Marks and Spencer makes more from the stores here than in the UK, same as millets and others, because they dont pay corporate financial taxes. Can they really use this as an excuse anymore
Is this fair or not, in my eyes not!
Its all in the states of Jersey web site under zero ten.
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Sewer Cidal,
You are completly right it was walker and Le suer that started this whole mess. A fair tax system is needed in a truly democratic and non bias society.
I feel deeply sorry for you being forced to move off the island, there are many others talking the same talk! many have already up sticks and left, its only the old that can’t, this could be why we have such an aging population on the island.
As we have seen money from the finance industry isnt able to keep us out of the red. Somethings gone horribly wrong for an island of 90-000 plus people if the finances dont add up.
Good luck to you and the family.
Whats Jersey without the Jersey folk!
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“The funny thing about this is the zero status companies make more money than there uk outlets because its non taxed, Marks and Spencer makes more from the stores here than in the UK, same as millets and others, because they dont pay corporate financial taxes”
Totally factually incorrect, I’m afraid. These entities do pay tax on their Jersey profits. They just pay it (eventually) in the UK.
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Helen Back (No. 69)
Thank you for putting me right! Yes, technically you are correct, the EU did not force the States to adopt Zero-Ten as such – they just told them that they couldn’t carry on with the status quo. Zero-Ten was the States’ attempt to appease them. Do you think it is right that a body of which we are not part, and in the running of which we have no say, can tell us how to run our economy? Do you think this is democracy? I don’t.
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72. Brian – The EU directive called for all companies to pay an equal amount of tax – not for some not to pay any at all, which is what we now have! I know this for a fact because after a great deal of searching I eventually managed to obtain a copy of the relevant document. This is not what the COM introduced and what we now have is a system that penalises locally owned Jersey companies and is bankrupting the Island. The only way out of this mess is to scrap 0-10 and introduce a system where all companies pay the same amount of tax – whether locally or foreign owned and preferably get GCI and IoM to do the same.
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Truthseeker you must be kidding a capital gains tax? Ruin the island. That is just ridiculous. Tax is on income/spending, not capital gains.
What Jersey needs is a Casino and fast!
Bring on a Casino before Guernsey does.
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“The EU directive called for all companies to pay an equal amount of tax”
No, it said there should be no discrimination in tax rates based upon the residency of the shareholder. But it said you could differentiate taxrates based on type of business.
And that is what we do.
Banks pay 10%, everyone else pays 0%.
Get that: foreign and locally owned companies that are not banks both pay 0%.
Taxation is a complicated matter. When people who have no financial experience make statements like “the only way out of this mess”, they do so with the authority of a hospital cleaner looking at a patient and telling that patient not to believe the specialist.
In other words, you are talking out of your nellie, Nellie.
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Brian,
The EU has no democractic legitimacy. But they can impose punitive fees on any payment made from any European based bank to any Jersey bank or any account of a European bank held in teh name of a Jersey resident. They can also require any EU based bank to decline any Jersey based business. So unless you want us to be unable to trade with Europe, you have to deal with it.
Voting for Gerard Baudains because you think he will stand up to the EU is akin to expecting King Canute to stand up to the tide.
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#65 Boris, what are you on? They started setting minimum targets for parking attendants in the UK (NOT as bad as having them working on commission), all that happened was that they started wrongfully fining people. Now how are you to argue unless you have taken a photo of your car everytime you park and have someone witness the photo and verify the time and place it was taken? And since it’s cheaper to pay the fine than to go to court (most people have jobs after all),…
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donald pond, you bring a breath of fresh air and factual accuracy to these forums. Your analogy of the hospital cleaner is so apt, on this and many other threads.
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75 Donald Pond – the exact wording was a “level playing field”. We do not have a level playing field as Jersey owned Jersey companies fall under the “Deemed Distributed” Law whereas foreign owned companies operating in Jersey do not. Under this law the profits of local businesses are taxable as part of the shareholders’ personal tax liability (whether they are actually distributed to them or not) but this does not apply to foreign shareholders. This is not a level playing field and therefore does not meet the EU criteria.
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#76 Donald Pond.
I repeat, do you think that the EU interferring in Jersey’s internal affairs is acceptable? I don’t.
Presumably, rather than vote for King Canute, you voted for one of the others, who are unaware that the tide was coming in at all.
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M&S in Jersey is a franchise this means that it is not owned by M&S but by SandpiperCI.
the daft thing is that by people like Monsoon pay no tax in Jersey they pay it in the UK the tax situation for the company is neutral. we are in effect paying tax to the UK government when we allow retailers to pay no tax in jersey. work that one out!
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Of course if we all refused to pay the extra taxes there is not much they could do- don’t think La Moye has room for 90,000.
I’m fed up of being told that we don’t understand, of the paternalistic “we know best” attitudes – when they obviously don’t. I wouldn’t mind if I could have the slightest confidence that someone knows what they are doing or saying.
We do not have a debt in Jersey – we are one of the few places in the world that do not borrow money. Why do we need this in the first place – to plug a predicted gap – predicted by people who do not even have basic GAAP accounting standards and who, to paraphrase Oscar Wilde, know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
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“Under this law the profits of local businesses are taxable as part of the shareholders’ personal tax liability (whether they are actually distributed to them or not) but this does not apply to foreign shareholders.”
Well, not quite, but we’re getting closer. “Deemed distribution” is a farce that should never have been thought up. It is the source of all the EU’s concerns and is easily avoided.
But get back to basics. Ultimately, all monies that a shareholder actually receives from a company are taxed in the place where the shareholder lives. A UK shareholder of a Jersey based company will pay tax based on dividends received and any capital gains tax when the business is sold. A Jersey taxpayer will pay tax on any dividends received from a UK firm.
Deemed distribution was just a way of making sure people didn’t roll up profits in a business and then sell the business on, converting the profits to what in the UK would be a capital gain. But it was always a bad idea and shows how little the States understand how people actually structure things. And if I recall, it applies to non-Jersey companies as well as Jersey ones – in fact, any company where a Jersey resident owns more than a certain percentage of the shares.
So, to be accurate, it is not the profits of “local businesses” that are taxable but the that portion of the profits of any business, worldwide, attributable to a tax-resident Jersey shareholder that owns more than the qualifying percentage of shares.
That’s my recollection, anyway. Its a total waste of time – like to see how much money it ever brought in.
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Brian,
No, I don’t think it is acceptable that the EU interferes in our affairs. But as I can do nothing about it I prefer to fight battles where I can make a difference,
If you have a problem with the EU, support UKIP. But don’t think for one moment that Jersey can have any effect on what the EU does. If the EU listens to us at all, it is just to check that we don’t like what they are doing. If they noticed Gerard Baudains foaming at the mouth, denouncing homosexuals as having faulty genes, waving a divining stick and proclaiming he can follow streams through the sea, and, adding by the way, that the EU is thoroughly nasty…well, I think they might laugh at him.
Is that the sum of your ambition in voting? To elect someone that will be laughed at?
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I agree with Jim actually. Its like La-la Land. Not that I don’t have some good Jersey friends and admire what lots of people do there, but really…
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Donald Pond – If you are a UK shareholder of a Jersey company you will only be taxed on any dividend actually received from the company – if you are a Jersey resident you will pay tax on what they deem to be your share of the profits of the company whether you actually receive it or not. There lies the unfairness of this ill-conceived law.
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And if you are a growing business (i.e. one that is helping the economy) and make a profit – 60% is deemed to have been withdrawn whether or not you actually take a profit share or not.
You are not free to decide how much to reinvest without specialist advise on how this will affect your taxation liabilities.
Then your perceived income is higher and if you happen to have one or more children attending university you will be taxed on this “deemed income”.
It is rather a case for becoming a civil servant!
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The fairest way to get extra tax is to raise GST to 20% on luxury goods only – the rich and frivolous can then still buy their 4X4s, expensive holidays, designer clothes, 3D TVs etc.
It may bring in enough to get rid of GST all together on essentials.
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#88 ‘the rich and frivolous can then still buy their 4X4s, expensive holidays, designer clothes, 3D TVs etc.”
They will just write them down as business expenses, thereby rubbing our noses in it even further.
That’s another way in which GST hits the poor harder than the rich.
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