Crushing defeat for no-confidence move
Wednesday 23rd June 2010, 2:59PM BST.
Deputy Southern, pictured after his defeat in the by-election, lost the vote by 31-9
DEPUTY Geoff Southern suffered another crushing defeat yesterday when his vote of no confidence in the Chief Minister was heavily defeated in the States.
Less than a week after he slumped to fifth out of nine candidates in the Senatorial election, the Jersey Democratic Alliance representative was deserted again when Members voted by 31 to nine against his proposition.
His argument to oust Senator Terry Le Sueur focused on the three-year £50 million cuts package, but the States backed the Chief Minister and his plans to fill the Island’s deficit.
Defending his position, Senator Le Sueur told the House that the deficit was real, that cuts or taxes were necessary, and that they had to be prepared to take difficult choices. ‘We could bury our heads in the sand and hope it will go away, or we could take early and positive action,’ said Senator Le Sueur.
‘We are running a deficit. Either we cut spending or we increase taxation, or we do a bit of both. If we cannot reach the target of £50 million in savings and cuts, we will need to raise taxes.’
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Like Mr. Syvret, Geoff should take a hint – no public support, no political support…perhaps it’s you that’s wrong and not everybody else…
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Southern get the message !
You are a sad embarrassment of a politician who spends hours and hours wasting member’s time with your ridiculous propositions.
You and your arch left wing politics are a joke.
Go now, this is what the voters want !
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Or we could revisit 0-10 which clearly isn’t working, get together with Guernsey and the Isle of Man which is now not going to get its cut of the VAT revenue which enabled them to fund their 0 company tax in the first place (and thus caused Jersey and Guernsey to panic and introduce 0-10) and introduce a fair tax system throughout all 3 Islands.
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Well what did he expect…no mandate from the eletorate and no support from his collegues except the usual gang of no hopers, treehuggers and moaners who creapt in by the back door(some with mummys help!)
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The States voted to keep the Chief Minister, they did not vote to support his policies and quite a few members who voted for him yesterday will vote to keep school milk and against any tax rises, maybe even a majority.
Note that last year when Phillip Ozouf proposed to raise taxes on motor fuel, tobacco and alcohol to try and fill part of the deficit the proposal was decisively rejected.
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Cowards…many of them have been taking a pop at TLS…some openly ,some behind closed doors…for months..typical
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“A” @ 1 ABOVE……Please don’t group Stuart with Southern. Stuart Syvret was the second best supported candidate in the election. Southern was already finished, before this ill timed motion of no confidence.His own support base has made it clear on the JDA’s own website that he should go.
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‘We are running a deficit………’
Not yet we’re not…2009 saw a £70,000,000 surplus to States spend. £20,000,000 unexpected.
If they screwed up the 2009 forecast how can we be lead to believe their forecasts for 2010.
I am not saying they should not provide savings within the States but i do say hang on with tax rises until they know for certain how bad the issue is. We all know that tax increases means less spending….less spending means less revenue for the States.
A quote in Jan 2009 from Le Sueur “JERSEY has a ‘sound and stable economy’”
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I know I will attract criticism but in my view T.L.S. needs to raise tax and make cutbacks. For far too long Jersey has been living a Rolls Royce life style on a bicycle budget.Geoff Southern lives in cloud cuckoo land and unfortunately we all have to learn to tighten our belts.
States Personnel, or rather their political masters have let States departments spend and spend with little idea on what it goes on.
Remember Joseph’s interpretation of Pharaoh’s dream – the States should have been saving in the seven good years for the seven bad years. Yes there was the so called rainy day fund, but in the end that won’t fill deficit left by reckless spending by States departments.
We are all responsible for the problems with the banks as we were all borrowing more and more to buy merchandise that wasn’t essential. Also the banks have been irresponsible by encouraging people to borrow money, when there was limited evidence that they could afford the repayments.
I am no fan of T.L.S., but he alone is not to blame. We all had our part to play in the economic crash. No we have to pull together to get out of this mess.
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Addendum: – With regards to my comment on States Personnel, I meant that they have let salaries get out of control which has added to the deficit.
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Peter said ‘You are a sad embarrassment of a politician who spends hours and hours wasting member’s time with your ridiculous propositions.’
Spot on. Let’s hope he get’s the message.
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The failure here was probably more due to the apparent inability to isolate Le Sueur from the cabinet than anything else. It was a case of all the ministers having to go or none. In other words, if the proposition had been confined to Le Sueur’s removal and not the removal of the entire cabinet, then it might have succeeded.
So, rather than being seen as a ringing endorsement of Le Sueur’s tenure (which has not, by any stretch of the imagination, shone) perhaps the state of affairs may more accurately be seen as the states wishing to maintain some stability and voting to save the cabinet, of which Le Sueur is, perhaps unfortunately, a member.
Whatever one might choose to say about Southern, his proposition shows an independence and a courage which is more often than not lacking in Jersey politics. I, by the way, am no particular fan of Deputy Southern but he has nonetheless acquired a reputation for being a particularly hard working member of the house. That must count for something.
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I’m sitting in a 2 bedroom flat in Manchester feeling sad and let down. When I left Jersey with my son earlier this year it was because the standard of schooling had fallen below a level that I felt was acceptable. Even though I was born in Jersey I knew buying here has been placed far beyond my reach and jobs for locals have been slashed at the expense of appeasing the finance industry.
Getting rid of the finace sector isn’t the answer, but making them more accountable and in tune with the island as a community would help sort out a few of the key issues.
If Alan Breckon were Chief Minister, I would never have left. His integrity and passion for the island and its people would make him a very good leader, rather than a manager.
With this latest opportunity for “regime change” taken out of the hands of the people, I would like to invite those that betrayed the people of Jersey to re-examine their conscience and remember that peoples memories can be long.
Theres always a boat in the morning and I dont regret getting on it for the sake of my child.
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This is probably more of an anti-Southern result than a ringing endorsement of TLS’s leadership.
I agree with many of the comments above; Southern is joke of a politician – he should take the hint and put us all out of our misery by vacating his seat ASAP…
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Not everyone in Jersey has been living a Rolls Royce lifestyle – there are many who have been struggling to make ends meet for years whilst the richer elements of society raked it in.
Now that the rich-kids party has run out of pop it looks like it’s time to nip next door to nick some extra supplies from Mr and Mrs Poor.
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Well I still support Geoff Southern, he played a very fair and honest election campaign and did a grand job of ridding us of Syvret so to me he is great!
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Sad that this was the best on offer.
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Massif Hole # 15 said, “Not everyone in Jersey has been living a Rolls Royce lifestyle – there are many who have been struggling to make ends meet for years whilst the richer elements of society raked it in.”
I should have made it more clear; it’s the island’s authorities that have been running a Rolls Royce life style on a bicycle budget. There is a ‘massive hole’ in the island’s finances and it’s been caused by the often reckless spending by senior managers in States Departments.
Problems have also been caused by the banks repeatedly sending people junk mail advertising loans, credit cards etc., etc. and then giving money to people without much evidence the borrowers could pay the money back…..people should be asked to do more to prove they can make the repayments and money should not be spent on unnecessary goods / services. (I say this for everyone’s good….maybe I am wasting my breath).
‘Massif Hole’ …. if you are in debt, I hope your financial problems come to an end sometime soon. Remember however, “There is no contentment in wealth, but there is wealth in contentment.”
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To me it shows that our elected states members are NOt in touch with what their constituents want! A referendum result may have been very different. TLS is as bad a chief minister as FW.
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Another nail in the political coffin for Mr Southern. Thank God.
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19. teresa – spot on!
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The media seems to have focused on the personal side to what has happened by looking at Southern’s failure in succeeding with this proposition.
How much morer mature it would have been if, instead of highlighting the defeat of a particular member, it were to have looked at what this incident showns.
What does it show? Well, it is now clear that it is virtually impossible to get rid of a poorly performing “Chief Minister” (inverted commas used purposefully). Only by sacking the entire cabinet, some of whom are performing perfectly well, can the “Chief Minister” be dismissed.
Another defect of the ministerial system has been highlighted. Thank you, Deputy Southern.
Given that the ministerial system was sold to the public on the basis of increased accountability, the fact that the “Chief Minister” cannot, in practical terms, be unseated, is a poor and somewhat dangerous state of affairs.
As one commentator above has said, a referendum would perhaps show the extent to which Le Sueur has no proper mandate from the people of this island. the problem with that point is that Le Sueur has publicly expressed his dislike for referenda (he misspelt the term when he made that announcement). The reason for that may be the fact that he is aware of his unpopularity. It may also reflect a contempt for democratic accountability which seems to bear out his office.
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All of this points to the fact that most except the wealthy are at a disadvantage with this Government ,it’s set up style and what it stands for…The pompous and elitist influence of the non elected rulers is simply dictatorial.just listen to the States debates with their piffle,long winded oratory and meaningless chapters,the weaseling up to sir and the whole Sir-ism that goes on forelock tugging and assorted puke making fawning is pure bile inducing.it is not a man’s Govt, it is both boorish and oppressive and not at all grown up..we need total reform and root and branch change,the ability to be rid of those without the islands welfare at heart and a return to moral rearmament,standards,integrity,Honesty,the very word spin is intended to deceive,a sanitised jargon to avoid saying “Liar” how can you rule without trust….by dictating..those are the only ways,we claim to live in a democracy..but it has morphed into a gang mentality and now the bench mark is no longer is this the right and proper thing.now it is “What can we get away with,what will the mugs stand for..complete opportunism…and it is most definitely not democracy…but a cheap tart’s version…change.grow up,get honest.
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Teresa – we keep having such referendums – they are called ELECTIONS. If you remember Deputy Southern LOST the last “referendum” – It is Deputy Southern the public have no in.
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23 Truthseeker…very deep, just a shame that the rest of the island does not agree with you
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24. Sanity – We do not elect the Chief Minister – the States do and according to a referendum conducted by Time for Change following the last major elections, the public voted quite clearly against Senator Le Sueur.
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Absolutely, Sanity. And it is indeed doubtful that Le Sueur would get back in!
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24 Sanity. This is not an either/or question. TLS and Deputy Southern are BOTH deeply flawed and inadequate for the task before them. That makes everyone else victims of both of their incompetence.
Truthseeker, has it right , some ‘root and branch’ is needed before we end up with an incompetent dictatorship and 50% GST for locals with ‘non-doms’ going tax free. ” It’s for the best , trust us, they will spend lots of money in the market post office,honestly”.
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What a load of hot air.
Unlike most of the posters here, who always believe the next election will somehow be different to the previous two hundred, I have a bit of perspective. I cannot prove it, but I suspect the majority of people share my view, which is:
Do I think the COM is doing a good job?
No.
Do I think ministerial government has been a success?
No.
Do I have much confidence in TLeS?
No, not much.
Do I have more confidence in anyone else in the States chamber?
Ahh, Here’s the problem. No, I don’t.
The CoM are the best of a wretched bunch.
Southern, Breckon, Macon, the Pitmans, Higgins, Tadier have all singularly failed to impress in the “real world”.
I honestly believe if we stopped paying States members the quality of our representatives would get better. By definition. Because it couldn’t get worse.
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Nellie – Fortunately a few hundred supporter do not give time for change a mandate to dictate who should be Chief Minister and given that the public choice last time would have been ex senator Syvret it was probably a good thing that this was left to those who know a bit more about such things.
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Aukward – Actually I agree with your comment. However it is a sad reflection on our assembly that TLS is probably the best who came forward for the job. The Jersey electorate don’t want to pay their politicians but instead choose to rely on unelected civil servants to dictate policy. Until this changes we will not get the young dynamic leaders with the experience and business acumen we need to govern our Island putting their names before the electorate and nothing will change.
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#29 We’d better not make a habit of agreeing, but I have to agree on that post! Unlike some I don’t believe money is the way to get the best, indeed monetary gain won’t drive those who genuinely want to see a better Jersey. Unlike 31 I’m not convinced that business acumen and experience is all that is needed, I suspect a States full of successful businessmen would be a disaster for the majority of the people on this island. It might be even better for the extremely rich but since the States currently look out for the extremely rich, where would the difference be?
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Donald Pond…it is said the devil is in the detail….You say among other things “But I suspect that the majority of people share my view”..Whoah, there,this is the road to self delusion,do you not mean you like to nurse the idea that you may be speaking for the majority..?and this “Real world” of yours,just indicate where exactly is that and how may it be viewed..? as you have failed to impress on us mortals …just where it lies….not in your posts here,that’s for sure.
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Sorry Truthseeker
I’m with Donald Pond and Leah on this one!
I think no.29 is spot on!!
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29 and 33. ‘The real world’ is another almost worthless expression like ‘common sense’.
Useful for rallying support from ‘like minded’ people but normally rather dependent on one’s own position.
Without going too worldwide in search of examples, is the ‘real world’ of the Barclay brothers the same as the ‘real world’ of an alcoholic in the Parade Gardens?
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It is pointless blaming Chief Minister Le Sueur. Frank Walker would have struggled with the deficit/global recession just the same. What about Deputy du Faye during his power struggle, he wholeheartly agreed to a 100 million new incinerator and ruined Havre-des-Pas.
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It is far from pointless to blame Terry le Sueur or Frank Walker.
They held senior office when public expenditure ballooned out of control, they were the architects of the catastrophic and probably unworkable 0 -10 Corporation Tax and the main men behind the waterfront disaster and much more.
I say, guilty as charged!
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Cathy..I actually agree with Donald’s listed points,the COM is a failed experiment that needs,changing as the pendulum has as usual swung too far in the wrong direction,all we need is democracy pure and simple,,where consensus is required not one solitary minister being able to dictate ,for as humans they are fallible..the group is slower but infinitely stronger and above all more representative…I was simply warning against Donald believing his own press.
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“Andanotherthing” the belief that only well off or buisnesmen make good politicians is hideously flawed and designed to frighten the poor,and uninformed into voting for someone who “Looks” the part…whereas what we truly need are epople with passion for the island,those with compassion for others,and above all someone who cares..we have pocket liners,power trippers,and an assortment of smat asses, we need more people people, those who actually understand and care wher the community is more important than schmoozing the banking whoremasters,”I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies,If the people allow private banks to control the issue of their currency,first by inflation then by deflation, the banks and corporations that grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property – until their children wake up homeless on the land their fathers fought for” Thomas Jefferson.. exU.S.President.
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truthseeker,
the reason why I believe the majority share my view is experience.
My experience is that most of the time forums such as this (and pubs) are full of people slating the “establishment”. We are always told at the next election they will all be kicked out.
And then, at the election, the “establishment” get back in.
So it seems to me that I can reasonably conclude that the majority believe that the “establishment” are the best option available to the voters. Which is the point I was making.
As for the “real world”, my point is not whether the likes of the Pitmans, Southern, Macon, Higgins, Tadier, Breckon, Syvret etc are rich or successful.
My point is subtler: have they ever done anything prior to being in the states that was rewarded with a significant promotion? In other words, has anybody ever seen them in action and been impressed? And the answer, depressingly, is no.
All they can seemingly offer is a promise to work hard and a heart that is in the right place. Whereas what we need is people with the ability to think deeply about problems and come to solutions that work for Jersey.
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40..One example..Mike Higgins..stages the Battle of Britain event….one of the best of it’s kind according to the R.A.F. a task of strategic planning and management that would stretch anyone an organisational juggernaut….so you are simply incorrect.
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You might as well make the same criticism of the substantial number of members that sit on the establishment side whose main claim to social superiority is that they inherited a fortune and pottered around in various business ventures until they stood for the States.
Donald Pond seems to have such a dislike of the liberal left members of the States that it is distorting his view of reality!
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37 Pip Clement – excellent post.
40 Donald Pond – Simply because so many Establishment candidates get elected does not necessarily mean that “the majority” of people in Jersey agree with their political views. People will complain about the States but can’t be bothered to vote. However, this is still democracy.
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truthseeker,
we’ll agree to disagree on whether putting on the same event year after year and negotiating with your friends what order they fly around the island in constitutes organisational genius.
I worked closely with Mike for a number of years and have my own views. But you can guess them. Why not speak to members of the legal or funds profession to get an unbiased opinion as to how highly regarded he was when he worked at the authorisations division of the JFSC?
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Donald Pond – It would be extremely interesting to see what noteworthy achievements/promotions the rest of the States members could lay claim to if one is making comparisons. Senator Le Marquand comes to mind and now Senator Le Gresley and that’s about it, so are you saying that because one or two Establishment States Members may have achieved something before becoming politicians that Establishment members make better political decisions?
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“Simply because so many Establishment candidates get elected does not necessarily mean that “the majority” of people in Jersey agree with their political views”
Actually, if the same bunch of people get elected over and over again in a democracy, that is pretty much what it does mean. If more people vote for Le Gresley than Syvret and Southern, it means precisely that the majority of the population (who care either way) want the moderate voice in.
I don’t have a twisted view. I don’t think any of the establishment have achieved much: if you think Le Marquand is a high achiever I think you are mad. He was a partner in a two man band (Backhurst & Le Marquand I recall) and became a magistrate when, frankly, nobody else wanted to. The only people I can think who had done much before getting into politics were Geoffrey Fisher (I recall) and Geoffrey Grime, both of whom had done well in accounting and banking. And because its not all about finance, I would also say Mike Taylor had earned his place in the States.
Unfortunately none of the 3 stayed that long. Which was a loss to the Island.
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