Housing crack down on bad neighbours
Saturday 4th September 2010, 3:00PM BST.
Housing Minister Sean Power wants a crack down on noisy neighbours
NOISY neighbours making their fellow residents’ lives a misery could be blacklisted from any other Island rental properties in a Housing crackdown on anti-social behaviour.
The ‘three strikes and you are out’ rule is an idea being promoted by Housing Minister Sean Power following discussions with representatives of the housing trusts.
But landlords renting out private accommodation could also check a shared list to find those blacklisted tenants, who they could then also refuse to house.
• Read more details in Saturday’s Jersey Evening Post
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Good, if you get given something at a preferential rate and abuse it you should lose it. Then see how they cope in the private sector – might even have to get a job!
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I agree that the anti social behaviour of these tenants should be dealt with, but blacklisting them with 3 strikes and you are out?
Surely with this mentality it will cause homelessness for all walks of life including families with young children and then Mr Power you will have to house them, and then they will be in the category of the untouchables as they will remain were ever they are housed for life, probably making more noise than before.
Hit them were it really hurts, in the pocket regardless of any handouts received.
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Great idea – but why not extend the black list to bad landlords (or would the list be too long!!!)
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Bring it on! I live next door to the ASBO family!
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so when the bad tenants have 3 strikes where to they go to live in a tent on the park
i live in a place which is unsuitable for myself and children we have had complaints about us that are untrue so we may yet have 3 strikes given to us i am trying to get out of this situation but we can not afford to live in the private sector and housing wont put us on their list because the trust refuse to release our names we are in a no win situation and no wonder kids go into town to cause trouble or binge drink their lifes living in squashed town accomadation with no where to play out on their estate is just unbearable then they also moan why people are getting fat lol it is a joke get real housing and trust you need to look at the real world from a family view not from your posh homes
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So then where do they go ?
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This has to bee good new for the non local given that most of these “sacred” recipients of state housing assistance are locally born and bred. Quite what justifies their preferential treatment mystifies me ..
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Sean have you been at the special brew again…surely this is the wrong tool for the job…the police ought to be able to stop bad neighbours,goodness knows we have enough flippin laws…..why are the cops not handling this….will you be moving on to evict drunks from the streets……have you been in the Big Brother household..or perhaps you are Big Brother.
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People should not have children if they can not afford suitable accommodation for them.
They are the parent’s responsibility, to feed, to house and to ensure they are not making other people’s life a misery.
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What will they do should not really be our concern, these people will have had their chance, and blown it. Why are we obliged to give handouts to people who have not earned it? Or have abused those given to them previously. If there are people who genuinely cannot find work or who are constrained by childcare commitments then let the States find work for them – preferentially community based – that fits in with school hours. Any parent can work 09:30-2:30 and still collect their kids.
I am tired of hearing about what will they do? How about hearing about what they HAVE DONE?
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Nice photo of Mr. S.Power.
I see that he has gotten rid of his horrible STRIPED tie and STRIPED shirt. Much smarter now Mr. Powel…
Bridget.
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This is a great idea. Nuisance neighbours can cause untold misery and stress to others.
Parents…..it’s not just aimed at you believe it or not. Not everything is about you.
There are other unruly tenants, having parties, dealing drugs, playing loud music at all hours, undesirables (such as paedo’s, druggies, alcoholics etc)…..you have old, miserable people who have nothing better to do than be a nuisance.
3 strikes is perfect. If 1 is unfair or untrue then there are 2 opportunities left to fix the problem. If all 3 are used then it is VERY LIKELY that this is a nuisance tenant!
5 Lynne
I don’t know you, but there is no smoke without fire. It seems to me you do not know how to control your kids……or at the very least you are turning a blind eye to what is really going on.
(the following is not aimed directly at you Lynne, but to all chav scroungers on benefits and those parents who cannot take responsibility for their own brood)
I get so fed up of the blame culture a lot of degenerates have.
“It’s not my fault….it’s someone elses”. “You should support me and my 10 kids because I cannot afford to do it….and don’t want to work”.
Do you know what?
Yes….IT IS your fault!
They are YOUR kids…..YOU support them and get a job…..otherwise DO NOT HAVE KIDS!
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5 Lynne Thomas
so when the bad tenants have 3 strikes where to they go to live in a tent on the park
i live in a place which is unsuitable for myself and children we have had complaints about us that are untrue so we may yet have 3 strikes given to us i am trying to get out of this situation but we can not afford to live in the private sector and housing wont put us on their list because the trust refuse to release our names we are in a no win situation and no wonder kids go into town to cause trouble or binge drink their lifes living in squashed town accomadation with no where to play out on their estate is just unbearable then they also moan why people are getting fat lol it is a joke get real housing and trust you need to look at the real world from a family view not from your posh homes
Of course you could have considered this before you chose to have children. The reason kids binge drink and cause trouble is because they have had bad parents who have neglected their parental duty and allowed their kids to misbehave. Being a parent carries great responsibility, if you’re not up to the job don’t have kids.
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are u talking in riddles someone should of had this conversation with your parents !Overpopulated
Posted September 5, 2010 at 7:09 am
People should not have children if they can not afford suitable accommodation for them.
They are the parent’s responsibility, to feed, to house and to ensure they are not making other people’s life a misery.!!! so your saying that if we have children loose our jobs are home or even a loved one and cant find anywhere suitable to live its our own fault because we burden u with misery hope you never find your self in ones shoes !
Read more: http://www.thisisjersey.com/2010/09/04/housing-crack-down-on-bad-neighbours/#ixzz0yeyPH9rc
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Great idea, I suggested the same to the States a good while ago now.
Not surprised that the parents think it’s all about them, but they may be surprised to find that it’s really not! We own our property but live next door to a rental property, the tenant of which regularly slams his door at all hours of the night and holds parties til 5am. The police have been called, for all the good it did! These selfish idiots have no consideration for others, we were totally fine with the previous tenant having occasional parties, he had the decency to check before hand and the noise was never as extreme or went on so late. This one has parties till 5am on days that we have exams or, in one case, a family funeral.
If you live in a flat you have to live quietly, that’s just the way it is. If you want to be loud then buy a detached property in the countryside.
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i am sure terry went down this road, trouble is by law ( if i am correct) housing are obliged to house them, and this would have to go to first the states , and then to the law office .
living on a estate out east, i find the noise from 80 homes ok and the kids that go with them.
just had the summer holidays and not a lot of noise realy, so well done kids , the adults were quite ,quiet also, every one makes a bit of a din sometimes, birthdays, christmas.
scratch the surface of the noise and se the bigger social picture, a picture many would not care to look at.
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BS Deluxe/ No Kid Joe
How can you make judgment without first understanding ones circumstances, this is the same thing thing that My Power is doing, innocent families will end up homeless.
It is difficult enough for a single mother to look after her kids.
And before you make judgment on me, yes I live in states housing, we have 2 children and both myself and my wife work, but it hasn’t always been like that.
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15 liz – what are you on? Whatever it is I’d like to buy some as you’re clearly away with the fairies.
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8 Equal rights..you have beautifully highlighted what is wrong with the thinking of a lot of people who are not from here…You are in Jersey…not the U.K. this is NOT the U.K. we are self governing….I am local and I cannot go to any country I please and bleat about my imaginary equal rights…go to the U.S. and come out with that spiel there and see what happens to you…grow up the world does not owe you a living and we owe you nothing,get with the programme.
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Johnston
Those who take responsibility for their own kids and are keeping them under control then great, they have nothing to worry about.
However, if they are letting them run riot, causing grief and misery to the rest of us then they should get what they deserve.
Why should the rest of us have to take responsibility for other peoples kids and why should we let them make our lives a misery?
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Mr Power tends so say things that people want to hear but that’s all. He first got himself noticed by backing popular Emeraude Ferries which subsequently weny bust. Then he promised he would get a new car / freight ferry in place to Normandy and nothing happened. So he moved on the popular and vote winning subject of a third supermarket and nothing happened. Somehow he has managed to become minister of housing but only until the next elections. I bet his next move will be standing for Senator and of course he wants to stay on as Minister. So he will have to keep making popular noises. Will he promise to get the price of a loaf of bread down to 99p and make pigs fly ?
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Welcome to the Banana republic…
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Liz, I sincerely hope that I never find myself in the unfortunate predicament of losing my job, however, this is what I have insurance and savings for, so I am able to take care of my family should that happen.
There is a difference between those that have worked hard and pay into the system then need temporary support whilst they get themselves back on their feet, and those that have never worked, expect handouts all the time and let their kids run riot because instilling some discipline and checking up on where they are and what they are doing is too much like hard work.
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18 Johnston-
How can you make judgment without first understanding ones circumstances, this is the same thing thing that My Power is doing, innocent families will end up homeless.
How will innocent people end up homeless? the proposed policy is 3 strikes and you’re out, having had 2 warnings you would have to be a complete idiot to offend again, such a person deserves to be homeless. It is not fair that a small number of people are making life a misery for other well behaved members of society, social housing is a privelage not a right, abuse it and lose it.
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I have experienced living with anti-social Neighbours and it’s wasn’t the noise it was intimidation. For what reason I did not know but these individuals would pick a victim and that was that. I recorded all the incidents and had taped recording of the verbal abusive towards me and my young child.I felt bullied and spent one summer staying at friends it was that bad, I hated going home.. I was able to move out of the situation, which other victims also did over the four years I lived there. I now feel sorry for these people who probably need to get a job and have less time on there hands…I believe they are still living on that estate and still intimidating people today. Why not have an estates just for people who have no regard for others and leave them to it? So I Hope Mr Power you would look factor as well.
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Noisy children are a nuisance, but children have to play and we should be tolerant. However, if the noise problem is serious (e.g. a neighbour’s noise unreasonably interferes with the peaceful enjoyment of your home by way of loud music, parties, honking car horns or dogs barking all night long every night), then the States should send someone to monitor the noise or install noise-monitoring equipment to measure the level over a period of time. If the noise is found to be unbearable, then it’s a form of harassment (a criminal offence) and the States should give the culprits one warning only before packing them off to a ‘punishment’ housing estate full of their similars!
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Nice idea, but in practice it won’t be so easy to evict tenants. What about the much quoted Human Rights aspect?
The police should be able to deal with noisy neighbours under the public nuisance law, or even as a breach of the peace. Then the court should deal robustly with people who cause problems for their neighbours.
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whilst i agree there should be sanctions for nuisance nieghbours, who is going to prove the complaints are real. someone has mentioned that there was false complaints against them , so what happens then ?
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Truthseeker – what are you on? Yes they should be evicted, and same with drunks of the streets. Anti-social behaviour is nto wanted in Jersey.
They piddle int he streets etc., so should be moved on or imprisoned until they learn to behave.
It is rarely foreigners either, it is the locals who feel as though they deserve something for nothing. It is about time locals stop being given preferential treatment, and if misbehave, then get them out on the street until they learn to behave.
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Big Bean – I totally utterly agree with you! 4x4s seems to be the only thing we disagree on!
Keey Britain tidy! Don’t have children you can’t afford! I know that when my parents had me they each had an insurance policy so if anything did happen the remaining parent and kids would be taken care of. Why should I pay for a family who haven’t planned or saved when i am scrimping and saving in order to buy my own house to raise a family? I have to much pride and self respect to just have a child to get preferential housing rents… I’m saving and having to pay tax and social for these idiots who seem to think its their human right to abuse the system and get given a house because they didn’t plan or save for their children.
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its not just housing tenants who get
NOISY neighbours making their fellow residents’ lives a misery i own my own house and a few of these familys on the same street as us are a pain in the backsides so lets not just slate housing tenants here….as my mother and father live in housing and have never claimed a penny of the states in the 40 years they lived there they always paid tax’s rent is believe it or not higher than my morgage!!! just like many other tenants so don’t Tye everyone with the same brush people!
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Bizzy 31.
Very true, but you must remember this thread is not about the nice people in social housing, it is about individuals who fit the ‘Shav’ bacronym stereotype (States Housed And Violent).
You know, that subculture of loud, anti-social louts who live in social housing and take pleasure in ruining the lives of nice people. However, eviction is not the answer, the best bet would be for the States to move all the ‘Shavs’ to an out-of-the-way estate…then dig up the road!
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I Have lived around noisy neighbours, attacking each other, screaming and lashing out at there kids, hitting wives and husbands, getting drunk and taking there problems out on the first person they see. Then the kids grow up and have a similar life style.
The problem is mostly to do with drink, most of these people are fine before they have a can of Breda down there necks, then they just change.
Yes i have had to report some neighbours and no its not nice, but neither is hearing a husband beating his wife while the kids are watching.
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Children!,If you cannot feed them, do not breed them.
Anon.
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the police should do more, it is silly to say 3 striks and your out .being homeless is to much of a punishment for anyone .kids should be the responsibility of the perants and the should be in court if ther kids couse a nusance .ther are two many kids that do as they want
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How about setting up a ‘district 9′ for the strike-outs, say up at the racecourse?
Might be a learning experience for them. And, of course, they must continue paying their rent for the privilege for the new facility.
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@ No2 PJ
Im sorry but I disagree, I think deep @1 is correct. you are being given preferential rates for housing, you should at least have the respect to behave yourself. Its exactly the same if your going private. If you consistantly annoy the other tenants see how long before you landlord comes knowcking at your door telling you to leave.
Also hitting them where it hurts (charge them more rent im guessing you mean) surely will have 2 outcomes:
1) They pay the extra rent, which then begs the question why are you in states housing to start with.
2) they cant afford the rent and are made homeless anyway.
I think this should not be limited to just noise complaints but any violations of lease agreements.
For example, you are not allowed to park commercial vehicles on states owned properties, however take a walk around – theres loads of them. Also the unbelievable state that some people are willing to let their house/gardens get into. and these people are raising children in this enviroment! Not to mention that we are paying for it all!
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what happened to the charge of causing a breach of the peace.
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Just reading a few mmore comments, id like to add:
Perhaps what we should do here is impose the 3 strikes and your out but with certain conditions eg.
- The 3 complaints cant all be from the same person (to emliminate people using it to settle a vendetta)
- If you receive a strike you can appeal agaisnt it
- You should also be able to redeem yourself through local community work (but alot of it – We dont want it to be just a few hours) Maybe 40 hours or something.
Also as has been mentioned we are not looking to ruin peoples lives here and we are not talking about kids playing in the garden or something, we are talking about serious disruptions and ASBO behaviour!
I know where i used to live every Haloween everyone parked their cars at friends houses. If you didnt then you can kisss goodbye to your windows and paintwork!
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I am sure there must be a vacant Island off our waters that could take these ASBOs’. Better still get them sterilized. Like we do to our animals to stop them spreading!!!!!
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jersey girl capetown 39
Khayelitsha would be the ideal settlement area…
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My mother told me they used to have a small estate away from everyone where the troublemakers all had to go and live together. This was got rid of years ago but maybe should be brought back in….I have no idea where tho.
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No. 8 – The Police do not want anything to do with noise complaints so it’s a total waste of time making a complaint to them – take it from one who knows!
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OneWhoKnows No.42 said “The Police do not want anything to do with noise complaints so it’s a total waste of time making a complaint to them – take it from one who knows.”
I thought I was one who knows, as years ago when I was in the police, we would deal with loud noise as a public nuisance and if the noise continued after we had warned the offenders we could arrest the culprit.
In the U.K. noise nuisance comes under the Environmental Protection Act 1990 – Section 80 and is dealt with by Environmental Helath Practitioners. They can issue an on the spot fine (fixed penalty notice) to offenders or report for the consideration of prosecuting them for any offences revealed.
There must surely be some similar system in Jersey, is it left to the Duty Centenier?
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@41 – I think your talking about the old Le Skez estate (not sure I’ve spelt it correctly)
It was behind what used to be Benests, but is now M&S on the road to Green Island
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#40
The vacant island where all the ASBO people have been moved to is called Jersey!
Thats where people from every other country around the world send their worst to live in some bizarre harmony.
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It’s not just tenants, owners can be just as bad with their antisocial, immature, irresponsible and disrespectful behaviour.
And if you try and say something, you are bullied and intimidated in your own home.
When are the Police going to take this issue more seriously??
Noise disturbance is a misery and causes ill health for those who have to endure it.
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Jayde # 47. If you are having problems why not give your Duty Centenier a call? They are often pretty good at resolving neighbour disputes.(P.J.G. will be pleased I said that)
You are right, noise nuisance is a big problem and the cops really should treat the problem more seriously. This type of situation can lead to mental health issues and lack of sleep etc.
You should have rights and if your land lord is giving you grief, why not speak to your lawyer……yeah, I know, the laws to protect tenants in Jersey is probably not as strong as it is in the U.K. Have a look at: -
http://www.tenancyagreementservice.co.uk/tenants-rights.htm
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Jersey Boy
No Jersey Boy, I was actually thinking about Khayelitsha…it’s a shanty town on the outskirts of Cape Town…or is that too near to Jersey?
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Jayde #47
Noisy parties.
In the first instance try talking politely to the neighbour, if that doesn’t work or you are concerned about an unwelcome reaction call SOJ police on 612612.
They will dispatch a unit (SoJ or Honorary if one is on duty, noisy parties is specifically mentioned in the memorandum of understanding as a job to be undertaken by HP) as soon as possible, remember they may be dealing with emergencies so must prioritise calls. All calls of this nature are logged and will eventually be acted upon.
If this is a frequent event call your Parish duty Centenier (number in telephone book) she/he will call on the party after the event and talk to the offenders about mending their ways, she/he will not name the complainants if so requested. This usually helps without causing ongoing neighbour disputes.
If it continues, a call to Health Protection, Public health Department 443701 is the first step towards prosecution under the Statutory Nuisances (Jersey) Law 1999.
They can issue an abatement notice which if not complied with, an offence has been committed which can result in a fine and criminal record.
All through this a good idea is to keep a diary of the nuisance especially noting other neighbours who are prepared to go on record as complainants.
Blue Knight#48
Most kind, thank you.
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Sorry I was actually referring to post 42 not 41. My mistake.
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I have found the police very helpful with noise complaints. At the bottom of a street near me is a family who love to have hot tub parties during the summer with load music up until 5 am, every saturday/sunday without a care as to who they disturb. this year they had a massive party in their back garden with music we could hear word for word 14 floors up in our tower block and this was at 2am. so we called the police as had 9 other people, the police arrived and told them to turn it off. And they did.
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PJG # 50. Credit where credit is due. Many Centeniers during my days in the cops, were excellent at resolving this type of occurrence.
You’ve been doing some research, as I was unaware of the Statutory Nuisances (Jersey) Law 1999 – this came in after I left the Fuzz.
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