Secret plans for savage States cuts
Thursday 9th September 2010, 3:00PM BST.
Chief Minister Terry Le Sueur
SECRET plans to axe 15 per cent of senior civil servants and close three States departments have been drawn up by the Council of Ministers.
The planned spending cuts, which ministers hoped to keep quiet until after next week’s major Business Plan debate, would scrap the Economic Development, Housing and Transport and Technical Services departments.
The Council of Ministers are also considering taking many States services out of the public sector and either outsourcing or incorporating public sector jobs from tax collection to benefit processing.
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Well, they’re not a secret any longer…
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with social paying out £450 for a family of 4 maybe sometimes its wiser not to work
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If a secret document has been leaked as the story seems to indicate, well its full script should be printed in the JEP without any delay ,these headlines do not help any one worried about their jobs in the present climate.. As the saying goes either put up or shut up
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Sorry .How can it be secret if its out in the open.!!! I would bet Mr.Ogley has saved his own job though after all the money and empire he created.
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And how about axing 15% of states members whilst they are at it?
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Secret plans that have been conveniently leaked to the public. Please don’t treat us like fools.
How does it go again?
Oh yeah – leak some horrendous cuts, let Joe public cry havoc and then scale back to almost nothing.
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Not so long ago next year’s deficit was going to be £50 million. Without explanation it doubled to £100 million. Can we believe anything they say ? How much is there REALLY left in the rainy day fund ? Have they already raided the Social Security fund ?
Although they seem to be getting the message, are they panicking and why ? I for one have lost all trust in these cowboys. Time to be worried I think !
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What’s with the word “savage”?
There are other “s” words that could have been used such as sensible; sage; shrewd; smart; savvy; suitable – the list goes on. But then I guess these words wouldn’t sell papers, eh?
While they’re at it, will they please scrap Social Security contributions and have income tax as the sole recipient of all taxes – social security is a tax by another name, after all.
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I wondered if Ben Queree regularly drank from the Cup of Self Importance, and I think this proves it. Does he feel that he is a Super Investigative Journalist because a mate has given him a copy of a report that was intended to be published all of next week, to enable him to sensationalise this “secret” report, and then selectively highlight just one option – which he says himself is not necessarily the preferred option?
This is a hugely significant debate that has to be addressed seriously. What good does it do for the JEP’s political correspondent to try to whip up a premature headline? Who does he think he is? Why should he decide when and what to publish on such a serious matter? Does he think he is more important than the Council of Ministers?
This is far too important for such inexperienced journalism on the part of our only newspaper.
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Well, everyone must equally bear the recession. Wasn’t Jersey’s doing, but everyone must share the pain unfortunate – but fact of life.
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secret plans its always this in jersey secrect
im glad jersey has gone down hill that island has got to be the most expensive and snoby place in world and to over rated expensive for rubbish hotels tourist atractions rubbish and beaches rubbish to be honast i will never return to this island and i hope it goes down to rock bottom and it will teach all those states members a lesson to not be gready other places are fair and mayby problems but treated with respect when i was on the island after 3 days i wanted off because i was so bord and un happy good ritens and when its down ile spit at you all good by
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Follow the yellow brick, la la la off we go to the magical kingdom where there is no such thing as a public service….who are they kidding.
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We all know what the next thing will be. I said that when VAT oops,sorry THE GOODS AND SERVICES TAX, was introduced that 3% would soon become 15%. What a complete shambles. My dream will never happen, we will never return to the days of intelligent self made persons giving us free of charge the benefit of their wisdom.
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Why would someone come to Jersey for 3 days and find out what States Members are up to?No wonder he was bored!I smell a troll here.
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For the first time I will vote for Terry Le Sueur, well done! It takes courage to approve hard decisions.
If States employ 5600 people so 15% cut of workforce means further 4760 on the payroll of taxpayers.
It is still too high cost for our island, taxpayers are struggling to pay bills but have to fund luxury lifestyles & fat pensions for others!
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chris 11.
Oh my goodness, you really do need to de-stress!
You should try doing some high kicks…do at least 100…it won’t make you feel any better, but it will certainly make your mouth dry…and that way you won’t be able to spit!
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So privatisation is the way forward??? Big mistake….
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@Chris 11:
What possible reason do you have for hoping for the economic collapse of the home of 90’000 people?!
Whilst you appear to have an issue with the Sates you wish to impose a punishment on the general population. Odd choice? I wonder what terrible fate befell you to make you so unhappy in 3 days. Perhaps it was because, instead of exploring what Jersey has to offer, you spent your time developing an exhaustive knowledge and understanding of our system of government.
Also, Jersey may not be to everyone’s liking but in all honesty, if it isn’t to yours then I’m sure we’re not missing too much.
For reference:
Snoby = snobby
atractions = attractions
ritens = riddance etc etc….
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Well this is what everyone has been waiting for, cut out a level of management. Chris (15) is correct, we can manage without a level as long as the foundations are sound.
It takes guts and courage to even consider this and my respect for Le Sueur et al has risen considerably.
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No. 2. You are joking – a family of 4 (2 adults and 2 children) in a 3 bed rented house could get just over £600 a week on income support, including the housing component. Quite a good net income for doing nothing. No wonder over £100 million goes on income support, there is little incentive to work.
No.15. The ‘secret plan’ is to cut 15% of senior civil servants, not the entire workforce. Depending on who are defined as senior civil servants, they may only intend cutting a handful of jobs
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Chris 11 – Wow I thought I was reading an item by James Joyce, no capital letters, punctuation or even sentences, pi** poor spelling too. You are either a literary genius or an idiot.
The beaches are gorgeous btw.
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chris #11
chris (note, with the little c)for years now I have been trying to educate the spelling monitors on this site that what matters is the meaning of a post not the spelling.
MANY THANKS
For you’re extremely poorly spelt and grammatically erroneous contribution. I am sure everybody completely understood the meaning of your spiteful, hateful, dribble.
I am so glad the boat or aircraft that took you home has not become part of your displeasure.
Come on all you spelling anoraks did you get Chris’s message or not?
camelia #14
I think your sense of smell is spot on.
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Come on you lot, leave Chris alone it’s a ‘stream of consciousness’ in its purest form and anyway we should concentrate on the contents and not its narrative form; which with the benefit of only fleeting consideration is a tad sad.
Anyway these cuts all seem a rather good idea especially as I am not a civil servant. the scrapping of departments and the franchising of the services to the private sector is vital and an excellent idea. It is not so much the saving in wages (as these will decrease over time) it is the pension saving as we will no longer have to make contributions as tax payers to so many States workers retirement pot. This will cap the pension black hole and save us all a fortune.
Lets cut radically now in one strike (?) and get all of the pain out of the way immediately and start again.
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I have an idea which would save this island hundreds of thousands of pounds, and needs no departmental cuts or extra taxes.
How about all States members who have personal fortunes in the million pound bracket and beyond forgo their salary for one year?
For some of them £40,000 is quite literally pocket change.
So come on gentlemen. Let’s see some true selfless loyalty to this island and her people in this time of dire need.
Or is that too much to ask of you?
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This has to go through the States of Indecision before it happens!
Look at how long it takes to get the simplest and easiest decision through the House and one will quickly realise that this might struggle through by 2030, be amended in 2033 and start being carried out in 2035.
Last year they had £15M of tax rises to help balance the budget and they threw them out. This year will see the same mix of muddle, failure and wishing it could be Christmas everyday.
Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose
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They could cut out several layers of management and not only would this not have a negative affect on the efficiency but probably the opposite as there wouldn’t so many people clogging up the systems. They should also bring in a freeze on hiring consultants and insist that the employees do the work their job title requires of them not just automatically farm it out to a consultant and then just present their report. Also let’s not forget the biggest threat to our future financial security is the states final salary pension. It is morally wrong in this day and age that states employees retire 5 10 years earlier on a pension 4/5 times that of the general public but also the way the pension is calculated e.g. all overtime in the final year taken into account and the practice of people being promoted in the last year. In this time of equality all people should retire at the same age not early retirement just for the privileged minority. The UK and other countries are all taking of increasing the retirement age to 67. Before we even consider that the states should bring all states employees up to 65 and please don’t give the ‘firemen and police wouldn’t be able to do their jobs at 65’ there are many many people in manual jobs at 65 and older. The head of police who is soon leaving is 62 or 63. If they are no longer fit enough to do their job they should be given something else to do or retired on a pro-rata pension.
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Private sector colleting and distributing tax revenue, now that would be a coup for the rich. Madness.
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It shouldn’t have taken the current economic problems to come up with these plans. The States should always be challenging why it has so many employees and whether things can be done more efficiently or indeed some things should simply not be done by the States. It does feel that our public services err too much on the side of being job creation schemes. Canada cut the size of its public sector by 25% so some room to go by those standards. We are a little island, we simply don’t need or can afford such a bloated public sector. The bubble finance economy over the last decade and its
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15 Percent is not enough! The States departments are bloated with overpaid underperforming staff. Yes there are some good ones but they are carrying an awful lot of chaff!
I have no problem with the states selling off services on the condition that it is done PROPERLY and:
a) not to the lowest bidder who then needs subsidising over and above the original cost
b) it is done ABOVE board and in the public eye.
c) ALL states members declare interests BEFORE the process starts… don’t want them nominating companies they work for….
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Memorandum to the Chief Spelling Censor (self-appointed) PJG
As you are so quick to criticise other contributors’ spelling mistakes, I am sure you will not mind me telling you that “spelt” is a grain – but not the past participle of “to spell”.
The word you were looking for was “spelled”.
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Seems the cost savings don’t go nearly far enough
The burden on businesses and some individuals will surely rise, at which time it will be time to close down the business, stop investing locally and retire. It shouldn’t effect more than a couple of hundred people all told – further increasing the burden on the States no doubt. I’m fed up with working 100 hour weeks and contributing £100′s of thousands to prop up a thoroughly bloated public sector. Very few of them seem to comprehend who pays for their work shy overstaffed
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Michael #26
Well said at the start.
If you want a real example of bloat look no further than the airport. Its awash with consultants, new posts are nothing, whole new departments here!
But who can blame them. When told of cuts to come what do you do? Bloat of course, then when the knife falls you are back to where you started from!
Your point about the fianl salary pensions is however not quite accurate. Joiners since 1987 have had to join a standalone scheme and inflation rises are not guaranteed, only if the scheme can afford it. And it cant so future rises will be less than inflation. And anyone who retires early now gets a smaller pension, so many % reduction for each year before 65.
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I hope that each and every States member (including Deputy Southern and his ilk) read the comments on this article. Without exception an indictment of the States and the policies that have been followed for so many years.
Whether they change or not we will be fleeced to pay for the many past errors, notably (among many) the cost of public-service pensions.
And whilst they’re about it the Unions, too, should take due note of what the ordinary man in the street thinks about their policies on public expenditure. Thank God I’m not a union man (or a States member – nice little number though, eh?).
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15% of senior States employees? What exactly does that mean? How many employees? Over what timescale? What will be the reduction in the payroll (not much when over so many years they have had inflationary pay rises, unlike the private sector and self-employed who have had to pay for all this). At what cost? I suspect large redundancy payments followed by an increase in States employees in a year or so. Time for open government (ha ha – this is Jersey, after all). Why not publish annually the numbers of States employees in each Department, the cost of any new posts and other increases in staff numbers (the true cost, including pension costs – you know, the real cost of this time bomb, not the paltry annual contributions which nowhere near to meet the pension promise.
And shouldn’t it be 15% of ALL States employees (as a starter).
On another subject, can we borrow the UK Chancellor …. just to see if he can implement his new policy against the “can’t work, won’t work brigade” in Jersey. After all, it’s a bit too much to ask our government to do anything effective. They’re too busy fiddling … like Nero – and the books, too.
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This has got to be one of the most ridiculously far fetched stories I’ve read in the JEP….and I’ve read a few.
Having looked at the 2009 States accounts Transport & Technical Services, Economic Development and Housing departments have a combined net budget of £22 million, which still doesn’t get us to the £50 million (or whatever the figure is nowadays) cuts target. Indeed Housing made a £20 million surplus so where’s the sense in cutting that department?
Let’s suspend belief for a moment and pretend that the story is accurate. Where are all the Hosuing tenants going to live, who will empty the bins, repair the roads, sweep the streets, etc??? I could go on.
There may be a small grain of truth in the story somewhere but the JEP certainly haven’t told us where. It’s garbage, they treat us like idiots!! If they reported facts and balanced articles it might help stimulate some valuable and informative debate around a massivley important issue. Who knows, we might even start to feel enfranchised!!
P.S – If the ‘intellectuals’ who post on here spent as much time coming up with worthwhile solutions to the savings issue as they do correcting other people’s spelling and grammar we’d save £50 million in a flash!!
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Michael @26
A common sense statement incredibly well written. May I further extend part of your post?
The problem seems to be that although the head of departments are paid exceedingly well, and as you also remind us, are given index linked gold plated pensions it is common knowledge that promoting favoured managers, coming up to retirement is common practice.
CM le Suer was asked a question when he appeared on the Sunday talk back programme regarding corruption. The question being, what steps has Jersey taken regarding corruption in states departments. Every council in the UK is aware of the problems of corruption and has a policy.
Jersey has no corruption policy at all,and his answer was, if I am informed of corruption I will take steps.Jersey has a far higher budget than many small UK councils.
To promote an old manager in his retirement year and also give him / her more than the usual overtime to boost pension entitlement, is this really a good practice ? Is this type of action called good ( financial ) management also is it in public interest, and in a worse case scenario actually corruption ?
Should not ( in the sake of public interest, read that as ripping of the taxpayer ) a root and branch enquiry take place and chief officers sacked if this should be proved and the pension downgraded of the person involved ?
An easy to follow accountant trail of wages paid, including overtime and perks will exist.
Now is a good time to do some auditing. If not now, why not Terry ?
Davey West.
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23 Boris…thank you for the phrase ” stream of consciousness” I, though a reasonable spellist am frequently dashing off a quick E to the columns between other missions on my desk…and often mispronunciate my worms…these inadequate anoraks who demonstrate the lowest form of self aggrandisment,that of trying to feel superior by being superciliously pedantic give me the hump and are missing the point..perhaps they weren’t made prefects at school,perhaps they should go and join the Honorary’s and get a belt with a little torch and a badge….spare us.
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Ah – privatisation again. The answer to all our problems,whereas it could just be that it is the source.
You may believe that it is of no consequence who owns what in this globalised economy, but consider an example. Try THAMES WATER and have a stab at who owns it.
Well it is in fact an Australian Bank called Macquarie Bank.Log on to the Sydney Morning Herald website and see a very good article in the business section, by Ian Verrender on the 7th September.
If you are happy with some entities, possibly thousands of miles away,controlling structures and assets in this island then I can`t help you.
Unity is strength
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I like the idea of privatising some departments.
Let us start at Harbours.
Currently Harbours lives on sweet shop accounting, capital costs are almost ignored.
Say under privatisation the current land area will continue to be owned by the States of Jersey and the new Jersey Harbours Ltd will have to bid for it.
Really they will have to come up with maybe a couple of hundred million for the freehold or say £20-40M per annum in rent.
Either way landing fees, berthing fees, etc will have to rise by a lot.
The really interesting case would be if developers were allowed to bid against them. Shutting the harbour, filling it in and building on it would make a lot of short term business sense and a hefty profit.
The same goes for the airport. You could rip up the runways and easily put at least 2,000 homes on the site at £450,000 a shot!
Let’s run the States on strictly business lines and see who screams first!
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truthseeker#37
What have the Honoraries ever done to you to deserve such a punishment as “these inadequate anoraks” being thrust upon them by you?
Been caught being a naughty boy have we?
Or is just “your” inadequacies peeping through again, and taking a pop at people that actually do some of the things you advocate, makes you feel important does it?
Glass Houses #30
ER!
Excuse me, but where have you ever seen me “criticise” someone’s spelling. No need to duck it’s too late my 22 obviously went straight over your head.
But if you want to join the ranks of the anoraks, feel free.
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As a St Helier rate payer I will be looking very carefully to see which States members will be voting with Southern in his support for the unions and their ideas of no redundancies and borrowing money.
Those that vote with the unions will NOT have Jersey’s best interests at heart they will be after votes pure and simple, but they won’t get mine!
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“As a St Helier rate payer I will be looking very carefully to see which States members will be voting with Southern in his support for the unions and their ideas of no redundancies and borrowing money.
Those that vote with the unions will NOT have Jersey’s best interests at heart they will be after votes pure and simple, but they won’t get mine!”
It won’t be as simple as that. There will the usual pork barreling and horse trading.
Some of plan A will be passed together with a bit of plan B and a soupcon of plan C, an amendment that makes no logical sense at all within the plan will be passed because it is proposed by an old member that everyone likes.
The resultant dog’s dinner won’t please anybody or solve any of the problems but there is always next year!
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As a builder put it to me, in such a simple and common sense manner, it actually sums up the way the empire building in the states department has exploded over the last decade, making efficiency a dirty word.
The boss wants a trench dug and filled he tells the foreman, the foreman takes seven men digs the trench it rains for three days, work does not stop, and its job done.
The States executive wants a trench dug and filled the same size and length. Our smart Exec. tells a departmental manager through e-mail with hard copy to follow of the place and work to be done. The departmental manager then forwards correspondence to the allocation of work manager who then gets a foreman with three men, one lorry driver, and one inspector of works ( suitably qualified ) to carry out the job. Job done taking three times longer, as it rained on three days and tools were downed but not drowned.
The work costs considerably more, all because there are too many managers.
This is the real problem.
When do Deputy Southern and Ted Vibert propose to put a stop to the final salary pension scheme for all states workers?
This is clear discrimination. We contribute as taxpayers, but cannot afford it ourselves. That would be doing something to save money whilst making a real difference to the non states employed, of which there are around 42,500.
To be fair some of the higher value finance workers do have pensions schemes. The majority of people in the private sector do not.
Davey West.
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#38 – what is your point? Macquarie Bank is known to own a large number of european assets (Condor Ferries!). No probles with this company, they operate for their shareholders, of whi I am one.
So I stress what is your point?
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This is probably one of the most sensible posts I have read on this site.
I really hope that the States members take notice and vote with their head (or any other part of their body that holds the brains) and not to score points. This is not the time to tinker with plans (42. Pip unfortunately you may be right) it is the time to show you have the best interests of Jersey at heart!
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The person who penned this article obviously knows nothing about “savage” cuts.
I once had one of those really nasty papercuts it hurt for days, then got infected and throbbed for weeks, the little flappy bit of skin then went rigid and got caught on things, very annoying.
Anyway you cannot axe 15% of any body. A really sharp knife and a saw is what you need to be so accurate, axes generally do not have a fine enough edge.
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#44
I did not realise the position with the ownership of Condor Ferries, so thanks for that. I had been researching the ownership of utilities in the UK,particularly those involved in the water “industry” and therefore I had the information to hand.If you get the chance please read the article I referred to which should be of interest to you as a shareholder (although I note that from 5/11/07 to date the share price has fallen 55%)
My point has effectively been pointed out by you: “They operate for their shareholders ” which is of course their purpose and obligation.If therefore the States decide to privatise/outsource any functions then whoever buys/operates those functions does not have a primary responsibility to the public of JERSEY. That responsibility passes to any shareholders/owners who of course can be located anywhere around the globe and are not necessarily interested in the communities in which they operate.
It would appear that the vast majority of people here do not find this a problem, but I do.
Unity is strength
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I’d like to say something to those who have taken it upon themselves to act as the local “Grammar Police”.
Your ignorance is astounding.
The Internet does not consist solely of a population who match your personal standards.
It is populated by people of all races, ages and educational abilities. It’s populated by the disabled, it’s populated by people for whom English is not a first language, it’s populated by badly educated people, it’s populated by well educated people. It’s populated by the old, the young and the inbetween. It’s populated by the biggest mix of creeds and colours you’ll find anywhere on this planet. It’s populated BY the planet.
Before you next take someone to task for being stupid for using “there” instead of “their”, you may want to pause to consider how stupid you look for ignoring that glaringly obvious fact.
You may wish to also consider which is the more detrimental to an online discussion; someone who engages in a conversation on a topic but who can’t spell, or someone who constantly drags conversations off-topic to chastise others about grammatical errors.
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Davey West makes a fine point – too many managers.
I would add that there are too many politicians finding causes to champion. Fewer politicians would slow spending down.
Cull the states assembly!
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48 sickofselfobsessives
Well said!!! It seems the arrogance of some people on the Island extends to their internet ramblings.
The internet is a wonderful tool. It allows us to communite our opinions and engage in debate with people who (for all the reasons you list above) we wouldn’t ordinarily find ourselves associating with.
PS – I bet you used your spell check on your post
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No.7 Wan.
Completely agree with you, in the last few months,the financial deficit has grown from 50million to 100million, what willit be come Xmas, 200million? Do they just pluck a figure from the top of their head.
On one occasion they came across 20million they never knew they had, how can anyone not realise they do not have 20million.
This type of “Nick Leeson” accountancy is an absolute joke!
How can anyone believe anything they tell us? I would rather trust a rattlesnake!
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