Surge in demand for States homes
Tuesday 28th September 2010, 3:00PM BST.
The Housing Minister says there is a desperate need for new homes
JERSEY’s poorest are desperately short of housing with the waiting list for subsidised homes ‘growing dramatically’, the Housing Minister has warned.
Deputy Sean Power said that there were already 900 people waiting for social-rented accommodation and more were joining the queue.
His comments echo what his predecessor, Senator Terry Le Main, told a Scrutiny panel in February. He labelled the draft Island Plan a ‘disaster’, citing that it did not produce any new houses.
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I don’t know about a desperate need for new homes, there is a desperate need for people to live within their means and not have children they can’t afford to house.
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I find it hard to sympathise with the “majority” of these people.
Go get a job and stop breeding!!!
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there are a lot of people living in states houses who can easily afford a decent living not to mention rent privately. find them and kick them out.
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I hate to be unoriginal but stop losing land to overpriced apartments. Buy land or convert underused States’ properties so that real people can afford to live there. Approving the building of more £500k flats does not help the housing problem. UK authorities demand that developers build something for them in return for planning & deals…about time the island got something back.
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’900 people waiting for social-rented accommodation’.
Just how many housing units is that? Who are these people? Where have they just appeared from? Or is it our dysfunctional economy which demands on an economic underclass who cannot afford to live here? Or is Jersey simply overpopulated?
Some clarity from the Housing Department please!
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(4) j. could not agree more.
as young and the not so young, look to buy a life long home. its a case of unaffordabilty.
many must feel the uncertaincy of full employment, long enough to pay the mortgage.
tax relief for the mortgage holder is nearly at the end , so iam told.
and still we have a all but open door inward policy of immigration, while the yougsters of the island, look to minimum wage jobs if they are lucky.
the situation is only going to get worse.
the states has land, here and there, left for the good of the island, so why not build affordable £250.000 k homes , using the students of highlands construction courses. the teachers would take them out of the classroom and onto site, these homes would not be built overnight, and would not be frame form, but brick and block with a cut roof, not gangnailed trusses, to allow for conversion as the young local family grew.
joinery shops and window/ door makers , could take on some students to make the goods required.
and hopfully they would gain the experiance to either , be self employed or work for a firm.
the young people of jersey should have a better future , than unemployment, and priced out of the market altogether.
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One feels that the first three posters may have missed the bigger picture.
It may be finally recognised that Jersey has entered a recession (which wasn’t going to happen according to some, but that is a subject for another day…), consequently, people are losing their jobs. With a now reduced income coming into the household, people are no longer able to afford their mortgages. Private rental can be as high as a mortgage so people are going to have to resort to public (i.e. States) accommodation.
And this is going to cause a strain, as like all property, there is only a finite number.
Are the States going to increase the qualification period to try and try and stem the flow of applicants? A horrific thought for some but it wouldn’t come as a surprise to me.
As to the issue of numbers on the island. Well yes that will have an effect but to bleat about having children being the issue is a bit mute.
The children (and yes I declare my hand by saying that I am a parent) are the future workers\tax and social payers of the next generation.
So without these children, Jersey will have to resort to further immigration; and no doubt this will then in turn produce further bleats as to how the fabric of society has changed by having non recognisable faces walking down King Street…
These are difficult times for all.
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With all the recent news about migrants “stealing” houses whilst the homeowners pop out for a little while in the UK of late……it makes me wonder why we don’t just “claim” these many empty flats/houses using squatters rights. It’d save a bit of rent (if you can knock up some dodgy lease and pretend to be paying rent to someone else).
Is this even possible in Jersey? ;-D
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1 & 2. Extreme right wing policies that you suggest are reminiscent of Nazi Germany. These children will pay for your old age. Prehaps genetics could be used to filter out the extreme right wingers like yourself.
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This could be a comment from 1970 – absolutely nothing has changed, Jersey you should be ashamed, will anything change? it hasn’t in the past forty years, so don’t hold your breath!!!
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just out of interest what is the rent like on states housing or is it gratis?
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BR at # 2 – you are spot on! Couldn’t have said it better myself.
I woudl have just added one thing – stop breeding, or use a condom.
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No 6. Why is it when the going gets tough, they blame the immigrants ?
No 1 & 2…..you hit the nail on the head !
Why cant people take responsibility for themselves ? Why is it left to the State to resolve their problems ie the taxpayer ??
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Negative comments as usual from the wealthy
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#5 Good questions Mark. Where are these people living at the moment?
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It seems that here in Jersey it’s acceptable to promote eugenics. Comments Nos. 1 and 2 are yet another example of the kind of ignorance and ugliness of thought so prevalent here.
The fact that we have a real problem of social poverty here is a reflection on the kind of economy and society we have.
The throwaway insults of “get a job and stop breeding”are pathetic and mean-spirited and serve only to show how little the writers understand about the world.
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In Scotland the Scottish Government doubled the council tax to 2nd home owners ,and stopped right to buy council homes.
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Anon 9 –
1 & 2. Extreme right wing policies that you suggest are reminiscent of Nazi Germany. These children will pay for your old age. Prehaps genetics could be used to filter out the extreme right wingers like yourself.
I beg to differ,first of all I do not suggest that my viewpoint is reminicint of Nazi Germany ( not sure where that came from )my social security contributions are intended to pay for my retirement pension ( assuming of course that by the time I reach old age the retirement age has not increased to the point of being unachievable )if the government choose to squander the money meant for my retirement on other things that is beyond my control.
As for suggesting that people live within their means and don’t have children and expect the state and taxpayer ( you and me ) to pay for them, if this is an extreme right wing Nazi policy then I dread to think what you would consider moderate.
Flymo 7 – good point well made but I maintain that the state and taxpayer should not have to bail out those who have made lifestyle choices that they cannot support, this should be a last resort, not a first point of call. I wouldn’t expect the state to pay for servicing my car if I became redundant.
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@BR : I have two master’s degrees, speak five languages (though not Portuguese or Polish) and 18 years of professional experience. I was NOT being picky as to what job I wanted and didn’t want to do. Yet it took me ages to find a job, was labelled ‘highly unemlployable’ by the recruitment agencies and in the end, I decided to take that ‘boat in the morning’. I am realistic enough to know that some people abuse situations (can’t say ‘systems’ because Jersey does not really have one), but I do not agree that they are the majority.
And @ No Kid Joe : … On second thought, I am not going to waste any words on people like you.
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Flooded: It isn’t social poverty – go to India to see that. What Jersey has is overt laziness.
Eugneics is a very good idea when it comes to a great deal of the population worldwide as well as locally.
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I think Housing department should have a better way of deciding who they help. There are people out there who need help. But there are people out there who take the mickey and can perfectly well afford to pay private accomodation.
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these kids are our future well heavens help us!!!
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It has never been easy to buy a home/raise a family in Jersey if you are not in a highly paid job or have a wealthy family to help out.But when I was raising my family it never occurred to us that it was up to anyone else to help or support us so we could only live as we could afford to ie no holidays,no new cars,no mod-cons/over the top Xmas gifts etc etc.So I have trouble agreeing with the comment about social poverty(comment 16) in Jersey as I think it is simply that too many people have too many children which they cannot afford and expect to have a multitude of possessions which they also cannot afford.Obviously there are a number of people who will genuinely need some help if they have fallen on extreme hard times but I do think that a lot of people could do more for themselves without the first thought being that someone else should help them.
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18. I agree. Nazi Germany most certainly did not discourage the German population from having children and then rely on cheap immigrant labour to cover the shortage of a workforce. The Germans were encouraged to have large families; the cheap labour was obtained by other means.
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Pat (21) I think Housing department should have a better way of deciding who they help
That is the problem Pat, mixed messages. The Housing Department, if we need one at all, does housing. Social Security should do the social welfare bit. As it is we have a one stop shop with two doors!
Spending cuts loom and all the chief officers are our to protect their patch. We don’t need a Housing Department, but they are desperate to prove their worth.
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# No Kid Joe.
Takes courage to say that and intelligently put. A lot of these people aren’t unfortunate, they gave up on life a long time ago. Benefit money is spent on booze, fags, Sky and cheap meals.
One family I know had seven kids from four different fathers (all ‘known’ to use the vernacular). There is no way those children will be paying for my future.
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Real Truthseeker (20):
‘Eugneics is a very good idea when it comes to a great deal of the population worldwide as well as locally.’
Unfortunately, Nazi Germany gave Eugenics a bad name but there is much to commend it. As long as it is not discriminatory – not done on the basis of race, disability or sexual orientation – but purely used against the feckless and the poor, no reasonable person could object.
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As always there are people that spoil it for those who are genuinely struggling.
I know some of the people on the waiting list they are early 40′s perfectly healthy and able to work but earning far more than I ( a meagre bank worker) on benefits. Oh yes and they do “cash jobs” to boost their income. Why not get cheap housing too when it is so easily offered ?
Why can’t social make those on benefits put something back into society ? The young men unemployed can help clean the streets, some of those with disabilites can go and provide some company for the elderly, its not rocket sceince.
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Anon 9 –
I find it hard to believe that “these children” will pay for anyone’s old age, “these children” have witnessed their parents abuse the system and not work a day in their life, so “these children” are hardly likely to get a job and become a valuable, hardworking, tax paying member of society.
Flooded 16 -
I can assure you my comments are not made in ignorance.
I am 24 I have worked (hard) since I left school/college, I earn a below average wage and bought an apartment 3 years ago (which I saved up to buy), I was raised that if you couldn’t afford it you shouldn’t buy it, ergo if you can’t afford to have children, don’t!
My partner and I would like to have children but unlike “some” people in Jersey we will wait until we can afford to upgrade to a house and have sufficient savings to do so.
I have friends my age who have had children with the single purpose of being given states housing, and this regularly happens.
So my “ugly thoughts” come from being fed up that these drains on society get something for nothing and I work hard, pay my taxes and will struggle to buy a house in Jersey.
And if you think there is “poverty” in Jersey then I suggest it may be you that knows little about the world.
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Dear Kid Joe.
Even the Nazi’s would not condon your comments. Your social security pays for the elderly now. Their children’s will pay for yours. Who are you to tell people when they can have children, prehaps stop treating life style illness, like certin cancers, diabetes, drug use, brain tumours etc. Were do you get off playing God.
Ordinary people should be disgusted with your remarks.
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If housing, housed their current tenants in the correct sized properties this might help. I know of a family of 2 living in a 3 bed house (have asked to move since 1 child left home and nothing has been done) and a family of 4 in a tiny 2 bed flat and are unable to move as there isn’t any suitable accomadation.
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Real Truthseeker. Your comments are far too generalised. While I agree there are a large number of spongers out there, not everyone on benefits is ‘overtly lazy’.
A friend of mine was abandoned by her husband who left her with a baby, having taken the said ‘boat in the morning’. She is educated to degree level but cannot get a job because child care costs would leave her with little or nothing to live on with one wage. She is therefore in the position of having to rely on benefits and states housing to get her by until the child is at an age to go to school. Another 3 years!
She hates being in this position but the system is not set up to help those who really want to crack on with their lives productively.
I know she is not alone in this vicious circle.
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If Real Truthseeker(No.20) really believes the nonsense he proposes I would suggest he be the first candidate for a vasectomy.
That might help to reduce the preponderance of right-wing cant that infects our island.
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Would it not be cheaper in the long run to make it easier for people struggling with their mortgages by not taking away the tax breaks. Also there are so many people abusing the system. Take a look around any of the housing complexes and look at the cars parked out front….They should be ashamed…
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It’s my new dream to post something positive on this site.
However. Why is it that real homes are built to last a long time but historically States homes can only seem to stay up for about 25-30 years before they’re knocked down and re-built. Why is this?
Does it cost more to do it properly? Or are they intentially built poorly for some reason?
I agree with 21.Pat. They do need to get on these people’s cases and find out the ones that are freeloading. I only know two people who get a free house for their family and free money to keep them and I know for a fact that there’s nothing wrong with either of them. People like this are a disgrace. Because of them there must surely be people who aren’t getting what they deserve.
I would suggest, and I’m sure others would agree, that there need to be more investigators dropping in on people on benefits to check up on them. The investment would absolutely see returns.
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moggit(10) quite true i have a hard back copy of a economic survey, from the 70′s and tells a similar storey, 400 new homes a year required then, and that rent rebate should not be created if it would drive up the rental prices, i do belive that housing have a guide of what is a fair rental price(may need up dating) if you could find somewhere for this price many would not require rent rebate.
mark (5) i will go with overpopulation.
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I totally agree with julie #23 i came to Jersey in 1975 as a labour Married in 1979. We both worked hard, seven days a week with no holidyas as we were saving to buy ourselves a house. Went to night school two or three nights a week for five years to better myself and get a better job. I now own my own home and have not ask any one for anything and always paid tax. I don’t believe that everyone has a right to a home but i do beleive that everyone has a responsibility to make their own way in life and not expect handouts from parents or the government. Why should hard earned taxpayers money be used to buy houses for people who can’t be bothered to save and spend most of there salary/wages on drink on the weekend etc or the people who just don’t want to work but spout “we have a right” nonsense you dion’t have a right you have a responsibility.
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This headline is INCORRECT, the number of poor people is increasing as a proportion of the population meaning more and more cannot afford housing and have to rent off the rich who have the power of capital.
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6 small money..Love the post…there are many eastern european pre fab insulated buildings that could be imported and assembled which would come in well under £250k The power/money brokers here do not want that so would put pressure on planning who would come back with “Ah yes but they are not suitable or up to our standard or some such tosh.countries who have much harsher winters than ours make sturdy fit for purpose pre fabs…so it’s the captive audience thing all over again, same as the electricity who are still installing anti green storage heaters as the gobble up the juice, which we pay through the nose for.
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Stop giving them to the immigrants then there would be plenty of houses
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Housing is so far out of reach that the only way to get housed is to have more children. That is why we now have some Year 10 school girls actively trying to get pregnant. Have one, even better two children, then live with parents etc, then go on ‘emergency’ list, then a home. Then Income Support. Life is great! Then 20 hours free nursery care – then make more children. Word spreads ‘come to Jersey, have babies, claim Income Support, claim rent rebate, get your children into school as Jersey provides additional teachers for those children whose first language is not English. It’s all great in Jersey – until one day we will be so crowded we will fall off. (G & T -Paid my own way, all the way)
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anon 30 –
Dear Kid Joe.
Even the Nazi’s would not condon your comments. Your social security pays for the elderly now. Their children’s will pay for yours. Who are you to tell people when they can have children, prehaps stop treating life style illness, like certin cancers, diabetes, drug use, brain tumours etc. Were do you get off playing God.
Ordinary people should be disgusted with your remarks
I will ignore the obvious grammatical errors including getting my name wrong and address point by point. My social security pays for the elderly now – well it may but it was never intended to, this is a misuse of my resource by an inept government and completely beyond my control.
“Their children’s will pay for yours” unless I’m mistaken the children of the elderly are my age and will not/are not paying for mine as I’ve yet to reach retirement age. Perhaps you mean their grandchildren will pay for my retirement, I fear that they will assuming they have jobs and are not wasters like so many taking from a pot they have never paid into it. As before this is not my fault but due to mismanagement by our government.
Who are you to tell people when they can have children, prehaps stop treating life style illness, like certin cancers, diabetes, drug use, brain tumours etc. Were do you get off playing God.
I’m afraid this conclusion is largely unintelligible but I will answer as best I can. I am not playing God, I am happy for anyone to have children providing they have the means to support them, my objection is to those who have children and expect me to pay for it. I don’t understand the likening of having children to contracting cancer as one is a choice and the other unavoidable.
As for the repeat reference to Nazi Germany – do you actually understand what happened during this appalling period of history, you demean the suffering of those that endured it with your flippant and irrelevant comment.
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Joe
Thought your were going to answer my points. you have not answered any. Smoking is a choice, which causes the main cancers, over eating can lead to diabetes, get my point now ? You cannot dictate life styles, the same as you cannot tell prople when to have children. As for your continued reference to government, prehaps you could vote them out.
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No kid joe,
The simple fact, which you seem to be wilfully ignoring, is that you are wrong when you say:
“my social security contributions are intended to pay for my retirement pension”.
They are not and never have been. Social security is not a bank account in your name. It is a way ofpaying today’s pensioners. Your contributions fund your parents pensions. The next generation will fund your pension.
Or, to look at it another way, the first lot of pensioners had not been paying social security for 40 years. Their pensions were paid for by those who were younger and in work. That’s just the way it is – justice has nothing o do with it.
My view is simple: if we want to control the population we need to stop building. If we build more houses, we suck in unskilled labourers to do the building, who stay because Jersey is a nice place, and become the next wave of people who require States housing. We need to break that cycle.
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Oh, and No Kid Joe, while I accept your basic proposal that people should not have kids unless they have the wherewithal (both financially and, more important, intellectually) to bring up kids, it does not follow that spending on schools etc is not in your interest.
Without an educated younger generation, the economy would stagnate and there would not be the tax income needed to keep you in your retirement. Assuming you want decent healthcare, a pension and a working infrastructure in your dotage, you should support investment in the Island’s future.
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I blame the following (in no particular order):-
States Tenants (especially those with 6 cars and private helicopters)
Income Support recipients (feckless lazy scroungers)
Immigrants
Pensioners (for living too long)
Unions
Civil Servants (especially middle management)
Supermarkets
The JDA (nearly forgot them)
Politicians (those whose only source of income is their States salary)
Stuart Syvret
Overseas Aid
Apologies if I have missed anybody out.
I don`t blame :-
The Council of Ministers
Politicians of independent means
Greedy landlords
Jersey Post Management
The IOD
Banks
You and me
Unity is strength
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When you pay taxes, whether you are a parent or not, some of your money will go towards services you will never use. People might contract certain cancers because they smoke. You may not smoke but do you object to your taxes paying for smokers treatment? Do you object to your taxes being paid for drug addiction treatment if you don’t take drugs? Why single out children? I think people have referred to Nazi Germany as many women were forcibly sterilised in the concentration camps as they were considered to be from an inferior sub-class, for example, gypsies.
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If you spend time recycling your rubbish, you will care about the environment. You may even feel that the World is at such risk because of the behaviour of mankind (I don’t, but you might) that we have to significantly change the way we live, as people, as a society, as part of humanity. And if you are still with me, you will understand that THE thing that needs to happen, above and beyond every Green initiative you have read or heard about put together, THE thing is for us to stop having so many children. Put this together with pressures on housing, and a conclusion that population should be controlled is not a far out, David Beckham (ie Right Wing) mantra, but a considered and logical recommendation.If you believe that everyone has the right to have children and for other people to have to pay their hard earned for their housing and upkeep, that would be like asking Turkeys to pay for the sharp electric knife that chops their heads off.
How you go about that without causing at least another letter to the JEP, well, that’s the tricky bit.
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Go Kid Joe
I would think ‘anon’s comments were made up by someone deliberately trying to look stupid.
You answered just before I did.
The whole of China told its nation to stop reproducing, why should we be different.
KJ, I am not disgusted by your remarks and I am very ordinary.
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@41 NoKid Joe
Unfortunately, many of the bleeding-heart liberals and reality-sheltered individuals – such as ‘Anon’ – simply fall back on the old “you’re an evil Nazi” non-argument when faced with a statement which is based on logic and fact rather than left-wing emotions.
Hence, sensible suggestions that people wait until they can afford to have kids rather than expecting the taxpayer to take care of them, will always be ‘countered’ with “you must be a Nazi to even think that”.
Yes, I too find that insulting and disrespectful to those that lived through it (my grandparents for example), but then at least we can take pride in the fact that our superior tolerance allows us to merely ignore these fools that make those sort of comments. Fortunately, I would say that they are also ignored by the vast majority of sensible, intelligent people.
Love & Light
Tobias
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#30 You place nicely into the old adage that the first person to mention Hitler or the Nazis…
For all you know No Kid Joe could have contributed all his life but still just be scraping by in this expensive island, yet more money than need be is taken off him and given to other people because they chose to have children. Some such parents, I have been told on here, don’t even need that money. So in some cases it is taking from the poor to give to the rich.
It’s not just about childfree people either. Some parents have stopped at having 2 children because they knew they couldn’t afford any more, yet they are forced to contribute to other people who knew they couldn’t afford any more but went on to have them anyway.
Unfortunately your ‘right’ to have as many children as you want does directly affect other people’s most basic human rights (to a roof over their head, health and safety). This means there needs to be a compromise, after all, your ‘rights’ are not more important than other people’s rights.
Like many people I have provided the money for my own retirement, and will continue to do so. Naturally I have to rely on both governments and banks to not mismanage that money (perish the thought!)
No Kid Joe isn’t playing God, he hasn’t mentioned killing people (although you seem to have). It isn’t playing God to withdraw financial incentive, it’s just moving to a fairer system where you only pay for the children you decide to have and not for the children other people decide to have. (I’m not including school education and health here, just food, clothing etc)
That social tell couples requiring housing to come back pregnant is just despicable and shows how wrong the priorities of our society are. Good luck to any childfree people who have worked hard and contributed all their lives but, due to the economic crisis, find themselves in hard times and requiring social housing. Don’t cave in and have a child!
It’s also worth remembering that (certainly in the UK) poverty relates to family size. Is it right that someone is allowed to put themselves into poverty by having many children? Would they make the same decision if the taxpayer wasn’t forced to finance them?
The taxpayer has bailed out families, but that was boom and this is bust. We are all taxpayers and we all have a responsibility to the other taxpayers. We all need to be financing our own decisions instead of relying on other taxpayers.
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#16 I’ve read these posts and can’t find any comments supporting eugenics, so it’s clear that you don’t understand what eugenics is.
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Will those that say they’ll wait until they can afford kids refuse the child tax allowances? If not, is this a case of the taxpayer bailing them out?
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@20 Real Truthseeker
So eugenics is a good idea is it?
Whilst I can happily tolerate and chuckle at the incessant stream of opinionated, self satisfied right wing drivel that you produce on this forum I draw the line at that comment.
Please feel free to share your criteria for selection in the context of this Island? Will you be weeding out the disabled? The less intelligent? Homosexuals? Short people? Do tell…
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If you can’t beat them join them! im putting my name on the list too. Im also finding its getting very taxing over here, so im going to stop working and claim benifits. You can get around the system by putting your name down at highlands and do something lets say try a art course, i will keep this up for 6 months then quit and get 6 monts to do nothing. I will still get benifits because i have tried and housing.the course just wasn’t for me, i might try lets say brick work next for 6 months then get another 6 months off! Wow the system over here is soooooo easy to con! By the way im being sarcastic!
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#1, 2 & 3 I agree. I am sick and tired of going to town (especially Thursday afternoons but I don’t know why) and seeing young women with double buggies PLUS a couple of kids tagging on as well. The mobile phone is virtually glued to their ear, they are usually smoking, have tatoos all over their backs (which you can see because their t-shirts are so short) – the kids have runny noses and a big bags of sweets to keep them quiet. In fact, they are thoroughly shocking. I then have to rush off to the Doc to get my BP checked because I know that it’s ME who’s helping to keep them in comfy homes with income support. Can’t write more – too angry!! Now where are my new pills….?
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Anon 42 – I’ll try to make this as simple as I can – I have no objection to people having children, I just think that they should be fiscally and socially responsible for them. Your objection to this point effectively states the opposite – that you thinks people should be able to have any number of children and the taxpayer should support them. Presumably on the off chance that they might buck the trend and be of use to society rather than taking from it when they have never contributed. PS – if the big words are confusing you go and ask an adult.
Donald Pond – point taken but my principle point remains, I accept that we need children to effectively replace us in society but surely we want children from homes that produce offspring that will benefit society, not suck it dry. This dependance on the state must end, it should be a safety net for those falling on hard times not an opt out for the lazy who think it’s everyone elses job to pay for them.
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#47 You needn’t worry, children are not being singled out. This article is about housing and the need for housing is affected by the number of people in existence not whether those people smoke or take drugs.
Thankfully managing population levels doesn’t actually harm any children, people that don’t exist cannot be harmed, and those that already exist are the ones that will suffer for our lack of ability to deal with the problem. The only ‘negative’ that population management might have is to get in the way of the wants of some adults.
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No kid joe,
Your basic point is very sound. I would say that the States should refuse to give any sort of accommodation to anyone until they are 25. If kids from normal homes can’t afford to buy or rent their own property they stay at home: same should apply to the scroungers.
I would also have a rule that benefits get reduced if you have more that one child. And I would require any mother who wants States accommodation to identify the father of the child and then require the mother and father to both work some of their time off for the States in thanks for their accommodation. One could clean beaches on a Saturday, the other trim hedges at the park on a Sunday. That sort of thing.
And I would stop States homes. There should be States flats instead.
But if we want Jersey to keep what remains of its natural beauty, NO NEW HOUSES, especially not for workshy fops.
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J-Cat: your comments are ridiculous. Society shoudl definitely have the discussion at least. Look to where there is a definite use of havign children as an income purpose. Rememebr Baby P in the UK – Eugnenics coudl certainly have assisted here. Perhaps thoguhts such as looking at reversible vasectomy’s – if you wish to have children, then the parents must be able to financially afford to have them, and not rely on the State to subsidise. Until a person can prove they are financially, socially, and mentally sound, perhaps only then the argument may be out – should an individual be able to have children.
Society picks up the tab in such situaitons, so society should also have input in the decision making process.
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I feel sorry for anybody that does not try to better themselves and the only thing they look forward o is the next episode of Jeremy Kyle. What an awful waste of a life.
It is also a shame that hard working people pay for these wasters. That is the case now and will be the same in the future…
…that is unless civilization as we know it changes to the extent where we have to revert to how the rest of the animal kingdom survive – the weak die and the strong thrive. Not sure if that is such a bad thing. That is how nature works after all.
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No Kid Joe, I largely agree with your comments but you must have realised that anon is a wind up. You have stated your case in a logical and intelligent manner and presented a solid argument. His/her response has been so irrational and emotional it can only be a wind up, or else he/she really is the chav they appear to be.
Give it up, you are either being had or you are arguing your case with an idiot.
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donald pond (comment 59)I particularly like your idea about the mother having to identify the father of the child/children if she wants States accommodation.A young woman I know of has refused money from the father of her child as she “wants nothing to do with him” but she has no qualms about taking benefits and States housing.Brilliant isn’t it?
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@55 Helen Back
Sarcastic yes, but what a great jolly wheez!
@59 DP
In these enlightened times, the mother of the child may not be willing (may be her drug supplier etc) or not even know the name of the father…
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No Kid Joe – your comments are spot on!
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Who would want No Joe Kid as a father anyway with an attitude like that thank goodness he hasnt or cant have children
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I am due to get my housing quals very soon , so have started looking for a 3 bed home to rent , and the prices for quals properties if you can finf them are far to high , one landlord £1700 – £1800 a month , when I commented that this was a lot higher than the fair rent , the house was actually for the A-J market , which most houses seem to be. Solution is to stop these greedy landlords charging such hight rents and then there will not be such a demand for social housing
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#59 I was worried about telling you this in case you had a coronary, but I like those ideas!
I would still prefer that child benefits are stopped, but before anyone gets up in arms, I would divert that money to helping the truly needy, so the genuinely needy families would get that money back just in a different form. Other families may just have to ditch Sky TV or take a cheaper holiday.
#64 Is that ‘enlightened’ or ‘cheap’, thank goodness male contraceptives have taken a big leap forward recently, the sooner they are available the better.
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66 I Love kids –
Who would want No Joe Kid as a father anyway with an attitude like that thank goodness he hasnt or cant have children
Too right mate, fancy having to pay for your own children, I’m with you, I think the taxpayer should fund my kids. The simple fact is you have to have 3 or 4 kids to get a decent house, it’s not worth my working with the benefits I get, not that I haven’t looked for work. I’ve looked everywhere, down the back of the sofa, in the fridge, I even turned off the tellie once to phone up after a job, truth is I just can’t seem to fit work into my daily routine.
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mac (67) how correct you are.
i wonder if the landlord you talk of , lives here or siphons his/her money out of the economy to boot?
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#66 I’m sure plenty of children would love a parent who doesn’t expect the rest of the world to pay for their decisions, they would probably even be proud of such a parent. Teaching kids social responsibility and that no-one owes them a living is a good thing, shame more people don’t do it.
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#46 Ninbaku
Maybe you could add to your to blame list States Members that abuse the Housing system by living in Housing Trust accomodation when they clearly can afford rental in the Private Sector!
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The simple fact is that there are too many people on the island.
Yes, some people will take all they can from the system, but there will be some many people who did really need help.
However, the island is only a certain size and we cannot keep filling this island, it is too overcrowded and the pressue on the system is already showing.
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59. I also think you have some good suggestions. Child benefit from the age of 25. not everyone deliberately gets pregnant but at least those that do know they are on their own if they are a teenager.
There can be other ways to ensure the child doesn’t suffer – clothing vouchers etc. i.e. not spent on nicotine.
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@ Leah Holmes POST 51
I don’t always agree with all your posts, but this was excellent.
To add my own, rather biased opinion onto the case, I would add that I, too, could have chosen a life whiling away my days with Jeremy Kyle, texting on my iphone and stalking online for gossip while my self-diagnosed ADHD brats screamed for attention round my swollen ankles.
But no, I choose the path with pride, and now I can look forward to a paltry 3 months of work if I decide to release my spawn onto the Island, which I would have to furiously save for to cover mortgage payments etc, and look forward to the fact that when my cherub is a mere 3 months old, I will be back to the grindstone.
And people wonder why they take the proverbial!
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When will some of you guys stop responding to the trolls on here…they are simply sad attention seekers.
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No kid joe – I agree!
I think the main problem is the fact that the tax and social departments are not combined – do they actually have a clue what is going on?
Also, who decides on the amount of income/child support received? Have 3 children, live in housing trust housing (which is lovely I might add!) and get £600 odd a week – after paying rent that still leaves £400 odd a week to live off, now seeing as they don’t pay for their children’s education, I’m not sure why such a substantial amount of money is required! They can’t possibly know what it is to be poor!! I don’t have Sky because I can’t afford it, nor have I has a holiday this year for the same reason! I would love to have children, but cannot afford a house and therefore will have to wait until I can!
I’m not saying people don’t have it hard, get pregnant, guy leaves you and so forth but others manage it! If you own your own property you are told you are not entitled to any help, sell that property and we will find you accomodation and fund you to do nothing to contribute to society! It doesn’t make any sense!
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I cant believe spongers actually come on here and gloat that they don’t work. You should be ashamed!
I have always worked ever since I was 12, my single parent Mother made me understand the value of money. Whilst speaking of my
Mother, she did have to ask for help once, when she divorced my Father. Housing found us a two bed flat on a housing estate. Anyway, what I’m trying to say is that she used the housing system to help her find her feet again. Once found, we moved out. Isn’t this the way it’s meant to work?
On another note…
I have recently left the armed forces after years of service and came back to live in Jersey. I had nothing to come back to (work wise) however, one thing I knew is that not working wasn’t an option. It actually took me under a day from being back for me to find work, I did anything and everything to earn my money, sometimes working 16 hours a day – all this to be back home with my partner and my family. Again, what i’m trying to say is get off your backside, motivate yourself and get a job!
Lastly, I’m with No joe Kid on this one! Well done fella.
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78 Unbeleivable –
I cant believe spongers actually come on here and gloat that they don’t work. You should be ashamed!
I was taking the pi**
I just heard that the UK are to change the child benefit laws so that those in the 40% tax bracket don’t get child benefit – about time. We should withold child benefit from any household earning more than say £60K, why is it automatically given, do millionaires get it?
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Frankly I’m amazed that there are people on ‘income support’ and the likes in Jersey. Wages here are so generous that you’d have had to actively neglect the excellent free education on offer in the island to be in such a low-paid existence.
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@7 – “these children are the future tax payers/etc”. Some of the “children” living in SOME social housing will never work a day in their lives and have children they expect the government to pay for. THIS IS WRONG END OF.
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81 Fred – @7 – “these children are the future tax payers/etc”. Some of the “children” living in SOME social housing will never work a day in their lives and have children they expect the government to pay for. THIS IS WRONG END OF.
This is precisely why we should stop providing financial and social incentives to people to have children. If having kids is restricted to those who can afford to pay for them the offspring are more likely to contribute to society rather than sponge from it, the parents are also more likely to care about their children and know where they are and what they are doing.
I’m sick to death of Mr & Mrs chav spitting out kids and letting the taxpayer pick up the tab. Have children by all means but be responsible for them both financially and socially ( apologies for repeating myself )
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#82 Totally agree. It doesn’t really matter what these children will do in the future because if they make something of themselves they will be rewarded for it financially when the time comes. What they might become is not a reason why we should pay for them now. In reality the taxpayer isn’t even paying for these children, it is just giving their parents free money for whatever they wish to spend it on. It was refreshing to see a lot of parents on the news last night agreeing that they simply don’t need and shouldn’t get any child benefits, let’s hope the politicians sit up, take notice, and scrap the system altogether.
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NKJ – I couldn’t agree with you more. Whilst there are ALWAYS exceptions (thank god), when you run into girls you went to school with aged 28 with 5 kids (and no everyone, I am not exaggerating), who has not worked since she failed her GSCES 12 years previously a line MUST be drawn. What hope do these kids have and what example are they being set, unfortunately the statistics do not lie and the majority, if not all, will be good for nothings just like there mother. ALL have different fathers as well BTW. Anyone who doesn’t think this is a problem?!
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And to be clear, people who have been made redundant etc are not included. We need to target the won’t work, won’t work culture.
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as i have a young child and a partner iam a little confused we want a house and all the things people who are older want we both work and i am self employed as the child care is so expensive and to pay for this would be the same as my partners wages it makes no sense for her to work also we choose a life style where we look after our child ourselfs i work very hard i cant get a morgage as dont have 30 thousand to hand over to the bank i am newly selfemployed so dont have 5 years accounts and to rent in the private sector i might aswell have my own morgage huh but they wont give us one!!!!! we work very hard and dont drink smoke and r not lazy drugies but we ust want a bit of help to get started its very easy for people who bought there houses years ago before the property boom who made more money in 10 years then they would ever make in 5 life times to say things like get a job our generation is not lazy we ust havent bought a property for 50 thousand which we sold for 600000
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