1

dave

I wonder what the rationale is for ruducing the FCJ subsidy by only 15% why not the same treatment for all fee paying schools?

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3

Obi St.Ouen Kenobi

I’ve never understood why access to these schools was subsidised in the first place. Why do taxpayers pay for the privelaged to send their kids to allegedly better schools to give them a head start in life.

Not that it seems to make any difference in my experience. I know lots of parents who sent their kids to fee paying schools only to find them end up working in the building trade or for the states, not that there’s anything wrong with these careers but you can be a carpenter no matter what your educational background.

If cuts have to be made this is a good place to start.

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5

Bedfordshire Clanger

A number of points at issue here which I am sure have not crossed our masters’ minds:

The people that will suffer will be those who struggle to send their children to these schools in the first place not the rich or well off.

Those who send their kids to these schools in the main taxpayers who are not availing themselves of a State education so we are saving some money from this

This move may well increase the number of students in the states schools therefore requiring the employment of more teachers and a larger infrastructure

This may be a counter productive measure.

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7

Jonathan

The ill informed will no doubt declare this a ‘good thing’, and that people who send their children to these schools can afford it. Wrong!

This will mean lots of children leaving their current school and joining the States of Jersey schools instead. Thus disrupting the child’s education and costing the States more.

If the States have to pay all 100% of a childs education surely this is a stupid incompetent ignorant decision.

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9

StudentBodies

Good idea in principle, however you have to remember these parents pay taxes AND school fees. therefore they may be likely to put more strain on the states school system by removing their children.

I personnally know of several parents who sacrifice a lot of niceties to send their sons/daughters to De La Salle/Beaulieu, some have more than one child at the schools. This kind of hike will push some of them over the edge. These schools are not elitist but a choice by the parents and not everyone drives around in shiny 4×4′s or own expensive houses.

The states seem to think that peoples salaries are rising in line with inflation this is not the case!

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11

Poor parent

Hi

Another brilliant example of States false savings. Myself and I suspect many other fee paying parents will seriously struggle to cope with the suggested increases in the fees particularly where we might have more than one child to educate. There is a perceived difference between the education and results offered between the 4 fee paying schools and the States schools which is why many parents choose to use them. That said however all Jersey education is of a fantastic standard by UK terms and any differences are not in reality that massive so if fees are increased there is a strong likelihood of an exodus into the States sector. Beyond the effects on individual children and their education this will have the effect of hugely increasing the demands on the public sector and at the same time make the remaining fee paying sector much more elitist and completely inaccessible to most ordinary middle income Jersey families

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13

percy egre

It is about time that the states did this, if the parents of these children who are able to drive their children each day in school in their big 4×4 vehicles cannot afford their school fees they should sell their cars and put the children on the bus it will cut down on traffic at the same time

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15

Plain Jane

What happens when fee-paying schools become too expensive? More children are placed into government schools,which costs the government a lot more in the long run.

Short term view as always.

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17

Steve

About time the taxpayer stopped paying for private education if they cant afforded it they will still get the same education as the great unwashed, You want better pay for it.

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19

Mogit

Well at last some common sense! – sorry but if you want your child educated privately why should i as a taxpayer have to put my hand in my pocket to assist your child’s education, if you cannot afford it then the State school will provide everything you need.

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21

Jo Public

As much as this may sound a good idea of saving a few million, it may just be another nail in the coffin and end uo costing the tax payer a lot more if many parents decide they can no longer afford it and opt for the public schools. Only time will tell.

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23

Joel

This is madness – Yes all departments have been requested to deliver 10% budget cuts. OK,but this solution has been developed for the wrong reasons, its been made by civil servants who are seeking to protect their jobs.
Everyone knows that ESC are massivly overloaded with non frontline middle and senior management.
Minister, I say cut out the fat first.
This nonsensical proposal will simply shift more kids into the public sector educational system and end up costing the taxpayer 100% of their educational costs.(instead of 50%)
Please states members don’t force the closure of our great fee paying schools. If a schools need to close let it one some of the underperforming public ones.
Madness

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25

tom

False economy!

How many kids will now need to come out of part paid for schools and into full states schools costing the tax payer more!

How blind are our states members

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27

blueskythinking

At last! On an island 9×5, to have the states funding fee paying schools sends out such a wrong message. It exacerbates the haves from the have not’s and perpetuates Jersey’s two tier society even further. There should be nothing wrong with any parent in Jersey sending their child to the local state secondary or primary school. I overheard two parents discussing this just this afternoon, complaining that if they have to pay even more, then they should expect a lot more for their money! Try your local school. I’m sure they would find the quality of learning at least as good as one of the colleges. Well done for finally taking a step in the right direction Mr Reed. Maybe I will see less bleary eyed youngsters waiting for the school bus to take them from St. Ouen to town first thing in the morning. If as a parent you really feel that the local school will not provide them with the education that they deserve, by all means pay for the privilege, but pay what you would do for a private education, not subsidised by the taxpayer. I know that putting your school history on your CV can help you get an interview, but that’s about it!

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29

mick

Wheres the problem?? The clues in the Title PRIVATE,,, Why are they getting taxpayers money in the first place?

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31

piston broke

If all the children attending fee paying schools were transferred to non paying State schools how much would it cost the tax payer. One does not have to be an accountant to work out that it would cost tens of millions more than it does today. Imagine if both De La Salle and Beaulieu closed and then put their properties on the market. Would the States (the tax payer) buy the schools and then pay to run them..even in the most prosperous of times that would not be possible. Because Victoria College and Girls College are already State owned they, the parents, might just stop paying the fees altogether. The fee paying schools have saved the tax payer hundreds of millions over the years and have been a credit to the Island. I write this blog as someone who received a States Elementary education.

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33

Worzle St B

I know for a fact that two State schools have plenty of space and any move of students from the private sector would be a great thing for those schools. Not only would they have more money to use, they could offer more varied courses and the existing students would gain from this. If more middle class families send their children to states schools the culture of those schools improves and society in general benefits. The segregated system that exists in Jersey keeps a two tier society. Parents should admit they do not pay for a better education (some of the best teachers are in the state sector), they pay for a their child to sit next to children similar to themselves so they don’t have to mix with the working classes. This is also maintained by the 14+ transfer system which further creams off the higher attaining middle classes and leaves less able behind. If you want to change society for the better you have to integrate it. If you don’t agree with this then feel free to pay fully to keep your darling ones away from the rest of us but don’t complain when asked to.

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35

B L

I so agree with Muppet Council’s post. Let’s place our children in States schools and the States pay for their education. It will save us a fortune – plenty of holidays from now on not forgtting one could buy a new 4×4 with the lovely savings we are going to make !!! yipeee

I hope Haute Vallee has at least 10/20 places in year 10 from September 2011

What planet in James Reed on – robbing Peter to Paul !!!!

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37

edam

One should remember that the man who proposes this was a St Ouen’s farmer until 519 people voted him into the States in 2002. Since then he has stayed in unopposed. Then the States decided to give him a Ministerial job with a huge budget. In today’s jep ( front page )he is quoted as saying that the budget deficit is caused by the recession when most of us know it is the corporate tax regime zero-ten.

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39

Pip Clement

I did predict that there would be substantial pain and that it would be shared out around society.
The simple fact is that you cannot take £60 – 80M out of the budget without cutting things like this.
Out in the States schools there wil be cuts in modern languages, laboratory facilities for science, sports provision and lots more.
Really the pain has not even started yet so you had better get used to it.

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41

Flymo

Sorry, have to agree with the States (!) on this one.

A Private school is Private. The States should be keeping an arms length away from them. Sending one’s fruit of your loins there is your choice and your choice alone.

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43

Mack

Going to use the figures from comments 8 and 23.
So it’s £2500 a year to educate a child in a states school then is it, and if that child goes to a private school then the states pay £1250 towards the fees (unseen by the parent).

So in the current system, to save the tax payer money I can send my child to private school, which will save the tax payer £1250.

Now under this proposal, the school will not get the £1250 extra from the states, so will have to pass that on back to the parents by increasing the fees. Okay, simple solution, remove child from private school and let them get a states education. Simples, costing the taxpayer £2500.

Of course these incoming children from the private schools will increase the class sizes in the states schools, which will no doubt decrease the overall standard of all childrens education. So the net effect is, it costs the taxpayer more money and reduces the quality of the education on offer.

Perhaps there are better ways to save money, 4.3million is a fair chunk to find, but compromising the education of future generations may not be the best place to start.

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45

Mogit

14 Real Truthseeker – we assume from your post that you were not privileged to enjoy private education and if you were then hang your head in shame at your lack of grasp of the English language . . . . Toed the line,lose the next election.
Sorry, but here we are talking about education and we cannot set the standards for our kids to meet.

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47

Toria

I agree with all the comments about the shortsightedness of this decision. When those parents who can’t afford the increases need to school their children the States will be paying for 100% rather than subsidising their education. Wait for a few years and see the Education department crying out for more money then they are saving in order to cater for the increase in demand… buying new land and buildings for new schools, teachers salaries, the list is endless!

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49

Slawek

I would like to send my little one to PRIVATE school, but I cannot afford it. Let the Taxpayer fund 50% of PRIVATE school fees for MY child(ren).

I would like to drive new Porshe but can’t afford it. Let the Taxpayer to fund me 50% of my PRIVATE expensive car.

What’s the difference ?

To all those ‘long sighted’ and having ultimate knowledge of one ‘true’ economy: Would it be possible that 50% of private school fee (per child) is still more than 100% of public school cost per child ?

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51

G & T

re Muppet council at 16.

You either send your children to States schools or send them privately and pay the whole amount.

I have chosen to send my children to our local States School rather than private- we walk to school, we are very happy with the catchment area school, the school is great, the teachers are great. I have chosen to spend my money that i have saved on school fees on activities and holidays.

You make your choices! Don’t ask me as a taxpayer to partly pay for your decision to send your child to a private school.

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53

TWFNala

Another gun shot and foot injury in the Royal Square.
How much more will it cost The States when those parents who work hard and made other financial sacrifices to give their children the best they can, can no longer afford private schools and have to send their kids to States schools? Bearing in mind the cut backs in staffing,school milk etc already facing the education system. SHAME ON YOU!!!
Although COMPLETELY in line with the trend for the need to recruit from outside the island.

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55

interested observer

Why oh why when cuts are made do they always start with Health and Education! The gains reaped in the short term will be lost in the long.

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57

common mum!!!!!!

@ No 2 – my son currently attends Grainville School, as did I and so will my daughter. Does this mean that they have no future and they will not be able to secure a job because I do not send them to fee paying schools????? Why should I pay for your children to go to school?

@ No 3 – totally agree No 29 – short, totally to the point.

By the way Grainville school had the best results in the Island I have been informed. And both my children intend on having good occupations, one would like to be a PE teacher the other a lawyer. My children want to learn and therefore they will go far on their own merits.

oh er sorry gov shouda triedd not ta speel proper like cos i ain’t ad proper like educate

Bottom line, if you think that you are better than the rest – PAY FOR IT YOURSELVES – but I can assure you, you ain’t!

and just for the record. I have my own business, my own home and a 4×4 (my children get the bus!) not too bad for a common states educated girl eh.

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59

maggie

I have two children, one at a private secondary school and one at a States secondary school as they have proved to have different educational needs.

The child I have in the States system costs approximately £6000 a year from the taxpayer to educate. This education is not means tested and in my child’s secondary school there are a wide variety of parental incomes (Director’s of local banks and large private companies to cleaners and till assistants).

The child that I have in the Private system is having a subsidised education but I believe I am doing the subsidising as the states offer approx. £1500 for this child per annum to be educated and I contribute £4500 per annum. Interestingly enough, the parents are a similar make-up – Directors, small company owners, retail assistants etc.

The Education minister is playing a game of chicken. He believes that those in private education will not pull their children out into the States system for approx. £1000 per annum. He forgets that many of his fellow ministers have also got designs on our money. 20 means 20, zero ten, possible GST increase, increased charges at every turn.

This cummulative effect is reaching tipping point and many parents may choose (as I did with one of my children) to pull a child from private education and instead contribute towards extra tuition for specific needs.

We all know we will need to make sacrifices towards the economy if we are to have a strong fiscal economy in the island, but beware… you have to cut your own cloth before trying to rip the coats of the back of everyone else!

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61

ken

Help At Hand

Use the Cash for Schools vouchers as part payment

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63

ipr

blueskythinking

Couldn’t agree more. Absolutely ridiculous that there is a two tier education system on this island.

Joel

I’m struggling to understand how an island with such a low tax burden and high standard of public services (Rolls Royce I think they were called)can be so ‘massively overloaded’ with fat.

Are you and the many others on this site seriously suggesting that an average tax burden less than half that of most European countries is too high?

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65

Rachael

All these arguments that cutting contributions is going to ‘destroy’ private education are ridiculous! The private education system have been sponging off taxes for years and its about time the states realise how wrong this is!
If the states contributed as much as they did to private healthcare than they do do private education, I’m sure this would have come to light earlier. Its totally outrageous that the taxpayers money isn’t going to improving that already great public schools, rather giving those who chose not to use the public schools a little ‘boost’.
Just because you are paying for your child’s education doesn’t mean that it’s better. As a recent school leaver myself, form an entirely public school background, the only difference I noticed in my public school peers was their ‘snobby’ attitude, largely because they paid for their education. Of course this doesn’t extend to all those i knew in private schools.
Finally, if parents can no longer pay the fee’s is this such a tragedy that everyone is making it out to be? Sending a child to a public school in Jersey is hardly an inconvenience. All the public schools provide excellent opportunities for everyone to exceed. Maybe the private schools will be able to find a way of reducing their fees, perhaps starting with paying their teachers less, or securing more corporate sponsorship.

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67

M

As I understand every child in the Island is entitled to a place in a States school? Some parents choose to send their child/children to private (part subsidised) schools, surely this in fact saves the taxpayer money?
Would there be enough places in States schools if everyone took what they as tax payers are entitled to? I think not! & if this did happen what would the expense to the tax payer be?

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69

DRHC

Time for a reality check for those who expect cheap privileged education.

Range of top private school annual fees (non-boarders) in UK;

Boys – Loughborough Grammar £9651 to Winchester College £27405

Girls – Royal High School, Bath £9300 to Moreton Hall, Oswestry £20580

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71

Worried Mum

This is simply dreadful news, how am I going to make ends meet. We need a new car as our Mercedes 4X4 is nearly 3 years old, what will the neighbours say if we don’t replace it. How am I supposed to impress the other mums on the school run if I’m driving last years model? Little Jasper needs a lift as he can’t possibly walk the 400 metres to school.

I suppose I might have to consider going to work, I’ve never worked as I am a busy mum and don’t have time for it. Will they let me have 3 hours for lunch to meet the girls? I suppose it’s OK to come back tipsy, they wont expect any work in the afternoon surely.

We’ve already cut back enough, we’ve cancelled the autumn break and are now only taking 4 holidays a year, I despair don’t the government care about the people that matter on this island?

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73

Tina

This cut is so shortsighted. All it will lead to is less children going to these schools and more in the states schools which taxpayers (which includes those people who send their children to these schools) will have to pay for. Instead of subsidising 50%, they will have to pay 100%. Middle income earners are hit yet again. Those people who have commented about these schools being for the privileged, you may be right for a few but for most parents they go without to provide what they consider is the best chance for their children. Not only for their education but for their future for their job prospects. What’s wrong with that.

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75

Market sense

Now that these schools will be truely private the market will decide the amount that these schools can charge for the services that they provide. After reading the above posts, I don’t see how these schools could charge more for then they currently do. It seems that a large proportion of parents who send their children to these schools can only just about afford sending them there now. If everyone who can’t afford the new prices goes into the public system I believe that the schools will have to rethink their fee structures. A half filled school will not have the revenue to support itself. I think the ultimate end to these cuts will be the loss of one or several of these education facilities.

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77

Phylis Ofical

Mogit #19 “why should i as a taxpayer have to put my hand in my pocket to assist your child’s education, if you cannot afford it then the State school will provide everything you need.”

Doh… and who will be putting their hand in their pocket to assist my child’s education then?

That’s right Mogit, you again. Only this time you will be paying for all of it rather than just a proportion of it.

“common sense” you say?

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79

Eton Mess

27 blueskythinking

Well said! Couldn’t agree more.

11 Poor Parent

‘That said however all Jersey education is of a fantastic standard by UK terms’

What a load of tosh. There are plenty of really good schools here in the UK that are state provided. You are showing up your own educational inadequacies through your lack of punctuation and extreme over-generalisation. Where is the evidence for your claim?

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81

dfg

ok, sounds fair, but can the states schools cope with the new intake from “private” schools? not sure there is enough room….

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83

Annie Du Feu

I was under the impression you had to pass an exam so only the brighter kids could get in to the private schools? The entrance grade boundaries can therefor be lowered slightly so that the few people who cannot afford the minor increase in fees and have to go to other schools can be replaced.
From previously being at JCG until I could get to Hautlieu I expect very few parents will even notice the fee rise, but the rich ones complain the most and have the most power.

Terry please vote against this (wallet out) its in your financial best interests.

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85

David

Surely the schools handouts should be targeted at those who need them.

Wealthy people, who can afford to, should pay full fees, poor people who cannot afford the full fees ahould get a partial handout from the states.

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87

The Bean

As someone without children, why should my taxes go towards providing Education services anyway? Why am I paying for kids I dont have?

When these schools close – as they surely must – the teachers currently employed in these places will therefore become States employees in the 3 brand new schools which will be needed to be built at a cost of £100M.

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89

True Jersey

Pay the teachers less at the Private schools. For too long they have destroyed their public counterparts who work just as hard, in arguably worse conditions and with less support.

I know a private teacher at Victoria College who drives a Porsche – Fact.

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91

roger phlegm

True Jersey (89) says “Pay the teachers less at the Private schools.”

As a matter of fact, teachers at Vic and JCG are employed by the States at standard rates.

Can someone please prevent people posting bare-faced lies?

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93

Craig

Right, lets get one thing straight. This is not a 2 teir class issue nor a “private schools better than public” debate.

This is about money, pure and simple. I agree that some of the wealthier parents will afford the rise in fees, but the remaining who do save and sacrifice will ultimately choose to go into a public school.

I heard that the education department say about 10% of students will move. If true, can the private schools cope? Doubt it, at least one will close putting more pressure on the public schools.

How many of the new intakes will now not go to the private school at all? Mine now wont as I cant afford this.

Have they thought about all the other tax changes (20:20 & GST up – breaking another promise) being brought in further reducing the ability to afford this?

When the public system cant cope how much will a new school cost in 5-10 years time? £20mil, knowing the states they would employ foreign contractors, botch up the exchange rate and it would come in over budget (again).

Lets start with a pay cut, pay for your own parking like the rest of us and have a serious think about a long term strategy.

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95

Ted

Dear Mr Reed,

Id like to suggest you return to your farm because you really haven’t grasped the basics of business or economics and your doing a great job of making a fool of yourself not to mention unelectable.

Ah I forgot tin pot Ministers voted in by the parocial few are still allowed to make decisions that effect the entire population.

Let me remind you being a deputy doesn’t give you an islandwide mandate.

Surely you and the other twits on here in favour of this barmy scheme realise that paying 50pc of a childs education has to be better for the taxpayer than paying 100pc.

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97

t.burke

yes the party over private school cheap in jersey my sons at the posh school on wellington hill i dont mind paying a bit more i would not want my him at a states school

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99

JULIE

To Common Mum (comment 57) I am afraid you were wrongly informed. Grainville may have got the best results out of the non-fee paying schools but I have never known a time when they have got better results than the Colleges,De La Salle and Beaulieu.Having said that yes of course a child can do well at Grainville if he/she has the ability and the ambition and parental support.
From personal experience I found that the children at fee paying schools were mainly from working class families who wanted the best for their children and without the need to ever change schools as they can stay right through to A-levels.The fee-paying school will not guarantee your child being a genius but it will give your child the opportunity to be educated alongside MAINLY others with similar ability and attitude.Sadly in non-fee paying schools you have to take the rough with the smooth and these days there are a lot more rough then there used to be-that’s not being snobby-it’s just a fact.

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101

teacher's wife

My husband is a teacher at one of these schools, he doesn’t drive, owns a bike and works 7.30 am-7pm every day so True Jersey, get the chip off your shoulder. The issue is the children and by paying our child’s fees plus our full whack of tax we save the States the cost of her being fully supported by the state and by both of us working hard in the public sector we manage to afford the current fees. The States are gradually eroding much that is positive about living in Jersey. Children will have to be educated in state schools and cost Education twice as much. Jersey has an unusual but quality education system that is just about to descend into chaos, well done minister. Your legacy will relect your bias which is well known…

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103

S2

#89 True Jersey

“I know a private teacher at Victoria College who drives a Porsche – Fact.”

Auto Trader 06/10/2010

Porsche 944 for sale GBP995 – fact

Local garage 06/10/2010

New Ford small car – over eight grand – fact

Back to school for you Real Jersey, but don’t ask me to pay for it, or the States.

Reed, first the milk is taken away, now you threaten their continued education. Leave the children alone.

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105

Anti-Moan

What a lot people seem to forget is that while many taxpapers partly subsidise a private education, parents who send their children to private schools pay ENTIRELY for a State education by paying their tax AND private fees. Furthermore, low earners pay less tax. Thus they subsidise private education far less than the wealthy who pay higher taxes. This whole argument works both ways.

Furthermore the stupid generalisation that every parent at a private school drive a 4×4 is a pathetic reduction of a rather simple argument in saving money. As if you don’t see 4x4s at Grainville et al.

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107

the future

Am I right in assuming the increase in fees can be claimed back as tax relief ?

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109

Joel

This decision and some of the comments on this subject stink of Public Sector protectionism.
Be under no illusion it’s not James Reed who made this decision – he is just the messenger for the civil servants at ESC and the public sector teachers.
Madness

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111

Love Jersey

Successive States members during the last 15 years have lacked the willpower, strength or acumen to foresee any shortfall in tax revenue, leading to the situation that we face today.
The introduction of a zero ten policy has cost this Island dearly. Local businesses have suffered and continue to suffer under a regime which assists non local companies yet penalises local ones, forcing their prices up further.
Shoppers source their goods, where possible, from the internet leading to lack of profits from the shops, forcing them to lay off staff and increasing the social burden – thus continuing its stratospheric rise, like a cancerous growth on the health of the working taxpayer.
States workers demand more money to cope with the rise of goods. Goods which were already overpriced now have the additional GST slapped on top. Inflation is rampant, far in excess of the official figures provided by the Statistical Unit as is known by anyone putting their hand into their pocket each week. Prices are being driven up by factors including monopolised greed, lack of competition, high staff wage demands, GST and increasing rent. States workers, and by that I mean all employees paid by the States, be it a police officer, street cleaner or doctor receive their salaries via contributions made by the private sector. Their own taxes, lets not forget, are a tax on a tax, in a round about way. So therefore every wage increase demanded or given comes from the private tax payer.
What’s this got to do with schools? – well, I am getting there. Sort of.
The enormous cost of running Jersey, some half a BILLION pounds a year faces a shortfall now of one hundred million pounds per year.
Our strategic reserve, or rainy day fund, contains, I believe, about half a billion pounds. In essence, since the glory days of money pouring out of the proverbial, we have only saved enough to run this place for about a year before the smelly stuff hits the fan. Or running at our current shortfall, it’s going to run out in about five years.
So what do we do?
As I mentioned, States workers take their salaries from the big tax pot. As does the maintenance of roads, the airport, lighting – the big one of social security, and a myriad of other expenses which nip and bite at the collective pool of money used the run this Island.
When the merry go round comes to a juddering halt, and at the moment its making some unpleasant grinding sounds, what will our elected government do to resolve the situation?
Do we start our grand savings plan with swathing cuts in public staffing numbers ? – actually I don’t think we need to do.
Do we increase the tax burden on the middle income earner? Nope.
Cut core investments and services? – Not really.
Cut off your nose to spite your face such as no free school milk, trips to the zoo and a hydrotherapy pool. Ooops already been done, but again, no.
Tell departments to slash their budgets. Hurrah, almost there but not in the manner which has been proposed – ie the reduction in tax payers assistance to private schools.
See, I told you I was getting there, just a bit long winded.

The parents of a great many pupils attending Vic, JCG etc are not rich or even well off. They represent the mainstay of the middle class. Generally hard working, mostly actually in work and currently burdened with the bulk of the 20 means 20 tax legislation.
By reducing subsidies to schools many parents will be forced to pull their children out of school and place them into States schools.
“Great” say many; “let little Johnny rub shoulders with the great unwashed, see how he likes missing with the lower classes”. Others say that private should mean private and let them pay full price, like in the UK.
However the possible influx of hundreds of children into the States system will maybe necessitate a nice new school or additions to existing schools. Maybe even ( shock, horror ) converting some of the private school sports fields into States schools. The current 50 per cent subsidy will pale in insignificance once the tax increase to pay for all this drops onto our doormats!
The Education Dept, like most States departments are panicking.
Top heavy with upper echelon management, overloaded with bureaucracy and empire building staff they are staring reality in the face. The reality is that like the whole of the States system, they need to make drastic changes. But in order to cling to their existence they make the least obvious and pointless decisions.
So what do we do? I have some ideas. Lets join them together and do something about it.
The fact remains, whether you like it or not that finance is the golden goose here in Jersey. It produces maybe half the tax revenue and its tentacles tickle every other sector – from decorators to shop workers. Every tax hike, whether invisible or not, every cost increase, increases all workers desire for higher wages to compensate. Higher wages leads to higher costs and an uncompetitive environment. Love ‘em or hate ‘em, if the finance firms left Jersey we would see:
Property values crashing through the floor.
Mass unemployment.
Huge welfare costs.
Shops closing.
These are the sad facts. There is no other high earning economy here. If there is and I have missed it, please le me know. Until something better turns up we should all support this industry.
We need one hundred million per year saved.
I propose:
1. A complete freeze on public sector employment for a five year period aside from essential medical and emergency cover. (non management).
2. All public sector J cat workers be given a big pat on the back and asked to ensure that they have trained a locally resident person within 3 years as they are going home after that time.
3. All departments told to cut costs by 25 per cent without shedding jobs. That would include no more crappy and pointless projects. No more fancy non slip tarmac that lasts a year then becomes more dangerous. Competitively source and renegotiate contracts.
4. States members perks to be reduced. No more free parking, lunches and jaunts, sorry fact finding missions. All expenses to the scrutinised before approval.
5. Reduction in States members. A serious debate is required as to whether we need deputies and Constables in the States. Most of the time they are either snoozing, leaving the chambers and pressing the wrong buttons on the voting panel anyway!
6. Complete overhaul of the welfare system. It’s been abused for far too long at the expense of the genuine and elderly.
7. Too many chiefs not enough Indians. A sliding scale “take it or leave it” pay reduction for senior staff. Any public servant earning over 100k takes a ten per cent cut. Between 80k and 99k then it’s five per cent.
8. A corporate tax system that is both attractive to outside investors yet fair on local firms.
9. 11K residents be informed of this new fancy system of paying tax. If they don’t like it, I hear that the UK is looking for rich people at the moment.
10. Install stocks in the Royal Square and charge a tenner to throw tomatoes at the States members. Only joking but that would clear the deficit I am sure.
People, we all get the politicians that we deserve.
They were all voted into office by us. If you didn’t vote then you only have yourself to blame.
If you are really unhappy and if you want to make a change then surely there are a couple of dozen intelligent people out there to form a proper political party?
Join me on Facebook – search for my name !

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113

Mark

True Jersey (89) Pay the teachers less at the Private schools. For too long they have destroyed their public counterparts who work just as hard

GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT! The teachers you refer to are all States of Jersey employees, on the same pay scale. They are all paid from the public purse, they all do the same job.
It is the same with States of Jersey Education Department supported services, buildings, et al.

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115

True Jersey

I stand corrected on the general Vic pay point. The Porsche point was a fact however, perhaps his children are home schooled…, which the way the island appears to be going may actually be a sensible step.

Oh well, all this fun to come for me as a parent to be.

It could be worse…

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117

Exile 81

I cannot see the point in reducing the above for only to put added pressure on the States to pay the full 100% of the fees which would be in excess of the Public schools subsidy.

No 89: True Jersey
Can I recommend taking a look at autotrader or the likes? You can buy a Porsche for under 10k if you wanted. A new Fiesta cost more so please review the bar you set.

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119

Ashley F

Is there anything that isn’t subsidised over here?
The buses, private schools, swimming pools, building projects. . . .

These things should be user pays. If you think your bundle of joy will benefit from a strict catholic schooling then you pay for it. Same goes for anything else out of the norm.

I don’t have kids, yet, so I certainly resent money I pay out going towards keeping berk factories like Victoria College going.

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121

Skinny Jim

I am a parent who had to pull his child from a fee paying school to go to a states school, due to myself being made redundant.
Firstly, let me say that the vast majority of parents at the private fee paying school are not ‘loaded’ and they are just normal , everyday hard working parents, struggling to pay for their child to go to school. They want what they see as the best education for their children.
Now from experience, I personally do not see much difference from a fee paying school, to a states school as far as education goes, but it is the parents choice.
I do not agree with what is being proposed here at all. There WILL be alot of parents that will definately not be able to afford the extra fees and therefore they WILL move their child to a States school, like I did.
This will in turn, make the States school class sizes far greater, thus making the education of the children less, and the expenses to the tax payer greater.
The way I see it, the parents sending their children to fee paying schools are saving the States 50% costs of the childs education, but when moved (which they will) the states are having to shoulder the burden of 100% cost.
It seems like a very very short-sighted view to me, which in a few years will only end in disaster.

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123

Spongebob

So the people who don’t pay tax expect their little angels to be subsidised 100% in the states schools, but the people who pay most tax should get no subsidy? Where is the logic in that…
We again get the ‘why should I contribute’ police coming in saying “why should I contribute 50% for the Private schools”….Well you seem happy for the 100% subsidy for the States Schools and the many families who pay no tax and are on benefits. Not a well though out argument. Maybe the middle classes should pay more tax so you can sit in your nice states houses, with your flat screen tellies and nice car and whilst we pay our mortgages, pay for your houses, pay for your kids to school, pay for your healthcare, pay for your pension, pay for your old age care (I will have to sell my house I I need it), pay for you to not have a job, pay for you to wine about something that is not going to affect you anyway.

It is too easy for the great unwashed to enjoy us paying more money, but if we refused to pay tax then maybe you will have to get a job and some education. This is what happens in the real world.

All raising the fees will do is more kids will be put into the states schools, which means bigger class sizes, a bigger tax burden (100% subsidy not 50%), redundancies in the private schools. The 50% subsidy is partially there to reduce the tax burden on the states schools, so all that will happen is a redirecting of funds to the states coffers, which will not benefit anyone except the benefit monkeys.

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125

Tony

Will send my child to state school now & be able to buy that 4X4 i’ve always wanted to get but spent on school fees instead,thanks policicos for helping me decide!!

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127

Jeremy

As a concerned Dad, my sensitive son would be devastated if he had to leave his school because of these fee increases. Think about the effect this will have on a generation of young Jersey kids.
Also, we made a long term commitment to educate him at the same school throughout his school-life based upon the fact that we could afford the fees forecast at the time. We certainly couldn’t have entertained this if the private schools had cost the same in Jersey as they do in England.
In my view, reductions in grant such as this should be spread over a much longer period to reduce damage to the kids and the parents.

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129

Mike

111 Love Jersey – you think it takes only three years to train up Joe Public in one of the professions or other roles that J Cats are essentially employed to do? One might presume that all Beans with the capability have applied themselves and are now suitably qualified and experienced, or on their way. Most local employers, and all worth their salt, salivate at capable locals, have recruited them and are training them.

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131

donald pond

whatever else, as a cross-section of the voting public I would have thought parents of kids at these schools were very influential. They will all vote next year.

Rather than talk about this subsidy, why not ask a different question: why are the parents of kids at States schools unwilling to contribute to their child’s education?

If the parents of kids at States schools paid £10 a week, per child, it would be a useful contribution to the States finances and would also remind parents that education does not end at the school gates but needs to be supported in the home. But no, Sky Sports is more important to many than their own kid’s education. That is the travesty.

Parents willing to contribute to their child’s education should be encouraged.

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133

wan

I cannot understand the obsession with the type of car driven by parents of children at the Colleges. To me a 4×4 is much too big for this island and a Porche much too fast. My 2 kids went to Vic College and I used to go up there in my rusty yellow 15 yr old Vauxhall Astra which sounded like a tractor. In fact I almost ran over the bailiff in the car park after a concert there. My demister thingy didn’t work and just didn’t see him. At the start my boys were a bit apprehensive to see me in this rust bucket but afterwards one of them would drive it up there himself as it was different and his friends loved it. It had a roofrack and died at the grand age of seventeen. I still miss it and now drive a 13 yr old Renault Clio. Perfect little runner for an island 9 x 5 ! Can we now get back to the subject of education please ?

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135

donald pond

Surely this decision shows clearly that ministerial appointments should only be given to people who are answerable to a island wide mandate. Deputy Reed is clearly out of his depth and out of touch with public opinion.

FWIW, I can say that during my time as a senior civil servant, there was a clear anti-VC sentiment in play. Too many chippy Hautlians involved in my opinion.

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137

Dynamic

Surely it should be a tiered system depending on how much household income a family has? Why a flat 50%?

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139

cheesed off mum

Having chosen to send our 2 children to fee paying schools, due partly to our catchment area schools not being great at the time, I have paid about £70,000 for that choice over the years, and have been mainly happy with the decision. The States subsidy is 50% for secondary schools and 25% for primary. So, if I had sent them through States education it would have cost the States at least £140,000 to educate them. Quite simply, fee paying schools SAVE the taxpayer much more than they cost.
Seriously, many parents will be looking to transfer to state education if these cuts are made, which will cost the States twice as much, and where are they all going to go. Hautlieu will be under huge pressure as a 14+ option just for starters.

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141

Kissinger

Whats the big deal? It doesn’t matter whether the school is public or private there are no flaming jobs out there for young people anyway!

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143

Reg Itarian

Love Jersey #111

I normally skip over the long winded posts but not yours. ESSENTIAL reading.

Excellent, well done, spot on.

Will search for your FB name.

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145

IPR

109. Joel

I can assure you that my post was not about protecting a poor value public sector. However,I do object to the lack of an informed debate about public spending and in particular about the abitrory 10% cut on all departments within the public sector.

I would argue that this is an opportunity for reform of the public sector, but lets start with a clear understanding of what the people of Jersey want, not just the finance and business sector but all sectors.

Once we have an understanding of that, then and only then,can we possibly have an idea of how much we need to spend and where that funding should come from.

The current approach takes no account of value, and concentrates purely on money.

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147

Uppercrust

About time too! If you can afford private school then that’s your choice but if not it is just too bad! My children all went to States Schools and are all very successful i.e. lawyers and qualified teachers.

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149

Lulu

What gets me is all those complaining about subsidising private schools don t appear to have a problem with us paying for their kids States education.

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151

Elitist

All I hear is “this is short sighted”, “we’re not all rich!” blah blah blah…

The fact that Victoria College advertises itself as giving “The best value for money education in the British Isles” is to me, as a taxpayer, grossly offensive.

Jersey must be one of the only places in the world to have this kind of policy on private schools and I believe that such a policy is not only regressive, but it greatly reduces social cohesion.

It’s high time that Jersey bought itself into line with the rest of the modern world. If you now can’t afford private schools, send your kids to a states school. Society will be far better for it in the long run.

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153

Blueskythinking

42. Steve, Go compare the ‘value added’ of the states to the ‘private’ schools. You cannot compare results where students have to pass an entrance exam. Then maybe You’ll get it.
There are plenty of rich parents who can pay for places at JCG and the like, they may have to lower their entrance level to fill their places. Rich dumb kids can mix with the rich clever kids. Happy days.

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155

Brian

#107 the future
Am I right in assuming the increase in fees can be claimed back as tax relief ?

No – school fees are not tax deductable.

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157

Freak economist

I pay for my children to go to a private school and it costs me 22% of what I earn. I drive a 7 year old car and work 60-70 hours a week. I pay 16% of what I earn to the States. I am not grand or wealthy but this was the best choice for me and my children. I don’t smoke or go out or spend a lot other than on the basics, paying my mortgage and the above. I contribute through tax gladly as Jersey is a wonderful Island but there is no logic in shifting the cost base around from the States to the general public; as it will not change the number of children/teachers/resources required. It is not honest or fair. It is not appropriate for those who forgo holidays/going out to be penalised for choosing their children over material good s or a good time. If more revenue is needed, the States need to raise it by taxing those who have the revenue not by taxing their choice to educate. If I spent my 22% on handbags, shoes or holidays the money would leave the Island. The public and the States need to brave enough to use sense not prejudice and vote to ask the Deputies and State Members to either pay more taxes, work longer hours for less money (I do this) but leave education and health to one side until they have brought their own house in order.

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159

jersey phil

why not scrap the tax allowance on children and then use the extra money raised for education.That would be fair to everyone and also sort the welfare system out so that people are not better off not working. I know a few on benifits and can also afford holidays abroad. Not bad

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161

Alan

ps St Brelade Boy – Perhaps you and Flymo could get together and try and work out where the stars go in the daytime, I’m sure you’ll work it out later rather than sooner (when someone else takes pity to explain)

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163

Brian

What a strange view of the world some people have! Fee paying schools populated by top-hat wearing Hooray Henries and States schools by the offspring of the horney-handed sons of toil.

I’m sick of the sactimonious self-righteousness from middle-class would-be socialists who choose to spend their salaries on luxuries rather than on educating their children.

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165

JULIE

Dear wan (comment 133)Your car sounds even worse than the one I used to drive up to the Colleges every day and I thought mine was bad- brilliant!!
In response to G & T (comment 136) I am pleased that your local catchment school met your expectations.I can also assure you that my children received excellent education at the colleges and now both have rewarding careers which bring them both in to close contact with people from all walks of life so I cannot agree that their experience of life and people has been narrowed by attending a fee paying school.

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167

Jersey Taxpayer

As a parent of three children who went through the States Education system from Primary School through to 6th Form – I am immensely proud of the fact that all three of my children now have extremely successful and rewarding careers, – all of it down to their own hard work throughout their schooling and the support of the marvellous teachers within the States Education system. Why pay through the nose for Private Education when these fantastic States Schools are available?

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169

C Le Verdic

#163 ‘middle-class would-be socialists’

What island are you on?

In Jersey even the working class are mainly right wing!

Or did you mean ‘would be socialites’?

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171

grasshopper

I am surprised that we have had not more ” conspiracy theorists ” posting about this one ,if this goes ahead the sons and daughters of the wealthy and influential of our island will no longer have to worry about rubbing shoulders with the sons and daughters of “trade” at their schools !!!!

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173

Ninbaku

Blimey ! – this is more like it, good to see so many postings even if I am exhausted from reading them all.
It seems clear to me, from reading these comments, that we live in a deeply divided society. Whilst economic prosperity was the veneer that hid this division, it is now peeling away and the cracks are there for all to see.
Whilst the CSR was being undertaken we were able to kid ourselves that a slight belt tightening would do the trick. Now that this has been completed and action is actually here, we are staring down the barrel and contemplating years of relative austerity.
I wish you all well during these hard times and hope that, on the education and jobs front, we can develop a society which maximises the potential of each individual for the benefit of all.

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175

mick

#54
your taxes are not paying for my child as he left school years ago and we did not receive 1 penny in handouts from the states for child benefit my wife and i both worked and paid our own way to bring up our child,,, if you are sad enough to send your child to private school then you should pay not my taxes

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177

Mr Taxman

The reality is that regardless of the reason there is less money in the pot.

This means that there are either cuts or increases in taxes.

Either way there will be less money in the majority of people’s pockets.

It will be a painful process however St.Helier will not flood with radioactive red sludge. Cape De La Hague will not go off. We will not all die of avian or swine flu. We will not have to walk miles just to drink water. Life will go on. Children will still go to school albeit there may be less choice.

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179

Researcher

Private school fees have risen at three times the rate of household income since the early 1990s, according to new research.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7836356/Private-school-fees-increase-three-times-faster-than-incomes.html

This year the cost of private day schools reached an average of £10,100

How does this compare to Jersey?

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181

Leah Holmes

#148 Totally agree, each pupil at school (whatever school that is) should be funded by a set amount. If parents can pay extra on top and choose to do so fair enough.

I disagree with those who criticise parents who can afford to send their parents to a fee-paying school but choose to not do so. Not everyone shares the same view of fee-paying schools and, as someone who chose not to go to one myself, I wouldn’t send a child to one unless they really wanted to go. My concern is with the qualifications system currently in place and how useless it is becoming, that same system exists in fee-paying and States schools so it makes no difference to me.

I agree with those sensible enough to see that you cannot compare the ‘output’ from a fee-paying school to that of a States school if the fee-paying school has posed an entrance exam. I would love to see fee-paying schools take on more academically challenged children, then we would see if their standard of teaching really is better. My own personal opinion is that the standard of teaching is the same, it is simply the opportunities you have that differ.

I have friends from both sides of the education system and some that were home-schooled. We all went to the same universities and are on a par academically.

Regardless of your academic capability, the set-up of a fee-paying school just isn’t to everyone’s liking. The assumption that those who don’t go either cannot afford it or couldn’t pass the entrance exam is just childish.

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183

Leah Holmes

#57 Common mum, you’re right about your children having a future if they are as you say. It is entirely wrong of anyone to tell you that your children will automatically achieve more by attending a fee-paying school. And I detest the ‘social mobility’ phrase that has been used! What a load of c**p that is.

The biggest difference for my friends, and me, was that our parents were very interested and active in our education. They made their sacrifice by giving of their time to read with us, checking our homework and keeping themselves up to speed so they were capable of checking our work. We never heard “Maths? You’ll never use that after you leave school, so why bother?”, or the classic “oh, that’s a hard subject” suggesting you should give up rather than try! The children I know that are doing the best academically are also the ones whose parents are very involved. It’s not all about the school, the parents can make a big difference.

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185

DRHC

Brian #163

Very sanctimonious and self righteous!

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187

Chris

About time they paid the full amount these parents have had it easy for too long. Anyway privately educating children in a small island is not healthy for them and many turn into snobs. My mate’s daughter went to private school and it wasn’t long before the little darling changed and was embarrassed by what car my mate took her to school in as it all seemed one big pretentious competition amongst parents as to what car they would turn up in.

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189

Carly

Darren #100

You make a very interesting point at the end of your post. You’re right, Jersey’s whole society is built on status. I wonder if sending your child to private school in Jersey is all about enhancing the self-esteem of the parents, rather than enhancing the education of their child

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191

kate

185
Can’t understand your meaning here maybe it was because I went to a state school.
If your already controbuting like the rest of us to States schools then you have a school there to use. If it is your choice to go private then you pay don’t expect the rest of us to be doing so.

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193

Jersey Girl

With respect to the difference in standard of education I can myself confirm (who spent all of my childhood in a States School) that the standard of education the children receive in the private schools is second to none. My Daughter is being educated on subjets at the age of 8 that I didn’t learn until I was 13. My Daughter is self motivated, does her homework every night without being asked to do it. The teacher informed me that my Daughter was reading at the level of a 10 year old. Most importantly, the majority of the children have fantastic manners and are a pleasure to be around. I can honestly say that I was blown away with the standard of education of all the children in these private schools. We are not a rich family, have normal jobs and both work full-time. Our dream was to give our children the education we did not have, and we will do everything in our power to keep our 2 children in private education. I have to be honest until 12 months ago I didn’t even realise the private schools were subsidised by the States!!

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195

Leah Holmes

#187 Good point Brian. Girls fair better in co-ed, but boys no longer do (probably something to do with lack of dress sense by girls!) so single-gender States schools would be a good idea.

For some parents they will genuinely believe they are purchasing their children a better education. Fair enough, I don’t believe it’s better at all, but if they’ve somehow been fooled into believing that then what can we do.

Still, I’ve met some parents for whom it is quite clearly a status symbol and personally I think such people aren’t suitable to be parents, they haven’t grown up enough yet.

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197

Tom Jones

Even after these subsidy cuts, the parents will be paying a lot less than the £20k a year you pay in the UK to send a child to a good senior private school.

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199

Pip Clement

“The colleges are selective and single-sex. I believe that selective, single-sex schools are better than comprehensive, co-educational ones for all levels of ability and both sexes.”

That is not really true as De La Salle and Beaulieu share facilities in the senior schools and there is extensive fraternisation. ‘My sister’s mate would like to meet you’ etc and the sixth forms share classes to reduce costs and provide a wide choice of subjects. There are quite few De La Salle – Beaulieu marriages that started like that and they in turn send their little darlings there.

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201

Nuova vista

Love Jersey (111) BRILIANT. Well worth the read, even if 1,312 word for a BLOG is a little long!

READ IT ALL!

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203

Liz

Hear Hear Blue Sky… I do get the impression that, in Jersey, the reason many parents are so convinced it’s a good thing to send their child to a private school is simply so that the child can put it on a future CV. ..talking of which why not also get rid of the divisive and esteem-knocking 14+ transfer system at the same time?

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205

Brian

I suspect that in a little while the Minister will ‘step down’ and announce that he’s decided to cut subsidies by 25% rather than 50%.

This will still mean a nice saving for the Education Department, and a considerable extra expense for parents, but it will be hailed as a ‘victory for common sense’.

Remember you read it here first!

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207

Ritchie CTC

I couldn’t agree with Got em Yeh more.

Whether you agree with fee paying education or not this is highlighting a way bigger issue which is the way the Government uses our tax payers money.Yes we need to look at all avenues to cut costs but c’mon ministers start addressing the fundamental issues such as the Public Sector’s multi-layered management structures, unsustainable benefits and bureaucracy gone mad!

This is all our money after all – not just yours!

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209

Perspicuous

So we have two subsidised education sectors in discussion, one gets 50% less than the other so it seems obvious that tghe former ought to have that excessive amount withdrawn.

The solution is for anguished parents to register with the totally subsidised schools in order that the States can get a feeling for how much these savings are really going to cost.

Maybe means testing is a step too far, but is it entirely fair that some wealthy parents access free education? Is it fair that the less subsidised schools should get less subsidy in order to defray the costs of the fully subsidised ones?

Many of the above postings seem more concerned with the parents’ choice of car than they are about fair treatment.

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211

A Hautlian

As a member of the “great unwashed” (I’d actually like to point out that I do infact shower daily, SpongeBob – #123) I can confirm that not all children in States schools are stupid and they are definately not all living off the States.

My parents could have afforded to send me to a private school and over the years I have more than proved myself capable of passing any entrance exams, but my parents decided to send me to States schools and I’m glad.

To assume that Private schools are a better class of education is fair if you compare GCSE and A Level results. However, I would argue that if your child passes the entrance exam they will be just as capable of high achievement at a States school as at a Private one… in my opinion.

There are points being made in these comments which do offend me. To say that my parents, by not paying for a Private education for me, are somehow denying me education or care less about my education is untrue. Education is very important to my parents and they have supported me, helping me to achieve high grades.

Lastly, to Jambo – #144:
“Given the comments above, it’s easy to see who went to a states school and who went to a private school!
And i’m talking about the spelling.
Enough said.”
I think maybe you should have read you comment before posting, ‘i’m’ is a capital ‘I’ and I do believe it is bad practice to start a sentance with ‘and’. I know, I’m suprised my poorly educated brain knows anything about grammer!

Poor me going to Hautlieu, I only hope I can get a job at KFC with my predicted 2 A’s and a B at A Level!

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213

JULIE

Steve (comment 206) You are so right -the level of anger,resentment and hostility on this forum is pathetic and quite shocking.Some people are totally incapable of accepting that others have different ideas from themselves and the old chestnut keeps rearing its ugly head doesn’t it- everyone who sends their child to the Colleges is mega-wealthy and a snob who drives an expensive car.What a myth!!And to Quizmaster(comment 210)It has never been a secret that the States subsidise these schools-for a start the Colleges ARE States schools so there is a clue in there somewhere!And the teachers come from exactly the same place as all other teachers-some may even be local born and bred.And finally Quizmaster,as a parent myself,I fail to understand how a subsidy will keep children off the streets at night.Isn’t that the job of a responsible parent?????

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215

DRHC

As I understand it – a subsidy can be defined as affordable financial assitance. This assistance is still going to be available but at a reduced rate. Therefore, a discount is still applied for those who choose to go the … “fee paying”… route, what’s the problem? If the discount is not big enough for you then perhaps you can’t afford it in the first place…..

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217

sideline

the truth is the states want the places for rich immigrants .they can not offer nice houses if there is no room in the schools.simple way of makeing space

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219

G*

Having a State school background myself I am not surprised about some of the comments. 3,4,13,27,33,49,57,58,77 sound jealous and miserable. Have you not had the opportunity to go to a good school? If so, why? Maybe because the only choice was State schools or Schools for the Rich. Jersey has secondary schools that are affordable. If these cuts are made and more children stream into the State schools everybody in the State System will suffer unless the States build more classrooms and employ more teachers (dream on they are saving)! Hautlieu can not cope with many more students and will have to make it more difficult to get in – So? YOUR kids are the ones that are suffering not the Rich Kids. Rich people will always be able to give their kids the education they want them to have! Can’t you see that the ones that suffer from these cuts are the ones that can’t afford State funded private education let alone Private Education??? If the States are making these cuts they affect everybody else but never touch the rich people you are talking about!

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221

Mrs B

Children in states’ secondary schools are most emphatically not stupid but the majority are being let badly let down by the lack of discipline, mob rule and generally the anti-learning culture that exists in these schools. They have excellent, committed and driven teachers who have become powerless to deal with horrendous behaviour day in and day out, due to lack of backing from the powers that be (and often lack of support from parents), and nice decent kids get rapidly disillusioned. I have taught in all the secondary schools and the colleges and guess where my kids go to school. I am lucky I have that option for them at a price I can just afford. No it isn’t fair. The Education Minister should be alarmed at people’s reaction to having to send their children to states’ schools! Warning bells should be ringing.

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223

Hautlieu pupil

This seems to have turned into a debate on whether or not private schooling makes children of a better standard. I for one, feel my education is of a high standard although I never went to a private school and attended Haute Valle, then went to Hautlieu for A levels. Being privatly educated does not make a difference on a child’s personality so the term “the great unwashed” is hardly fair. From experience I have friends from all walks of life and feel it awful and prejudice, and presumptious to group people under such terms.
If you chose to send your child to a private school, then I personally have to quarrels with that, however people do have the right to comment when the “rich” complain about school fees. Surely if you choose to send a child to somewhere you are going to have to pay tuition fees, then you have to expect the fees to differ, if yu haven’t noticed, this island is i recession so clearly cuts are going to have to be made.
“MEMBER OF THE UNWASHED”

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225

Recent student

No 134, I would like to see those stats you are talking about? Also put in the number of kids at state schools who don’t sit GCSE’s or at least the basic ones. Im guessing the stats you have seen might just miss these out. Or if your honest your talking wet as Vic college does get higher grades then any of the other secondry schools in the Island.

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227

Leah Holmes

Looks like we’ve established that it’s wrong to think everyone who sends their kid to a fee-paying school is rich and snobby. Also that it’s wrong to assume that their child is smarter than any other.

It’s just as wrong to assume that kids in States schools couldn’t get into a fee-paying school or are less capable academically. It’s wrong to assume that they ever wanted to go to a fee-paying school and so equally wrong to assume that they are jealous of those that do (same goes for parents).

For those of us that went to brilliant non fee-paying schools with great teachers and really smart kids it is simply the case that we don’t see the need for fee-paying schools. That’s all there is to it. Why would we?

That’s what some of the fee-paying supporters don’t seem to understand. It’s a subjective matter, you genuinely believe a fee-paying school is better, I (and others) genuinely don’t, I wouldn’t send a child to one unless they clearly wanted to go. My only belief, when it comes to education, is that the parents’ input and support at home is key! Can you give that support if you’re working 3 jobs to pay for a fee-paying school? There is no right or wrong because it can never be said that one system is better than the other (because of entrance exams), it just comes down to our own opinions.

My school had teachers that had previously taught at private schools and some of our teachers switched to private schools when they moved house. Like private and non-private healthcare, the workers are the same. Also, the patients (or pupils) are the same. The illness (academic capability) is the determining factor.

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229

donald pond

Ruth B:
“I don’t think that Donald Pond can naiively suggest that his life would have been very different had he attended Hautlieu”

Schools change. But I got to Oxbridge from VC. I don’t recall anyone from my year at Hautlieu getting there.

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231

the future

Has anyone suggested making the richer pay for their kids to go to any school at all.

There are very wealthy people with children at free schools and poor people sending children to private.

Make the rich pay for every school then they can choose and it makes no difference. I expect they will all stay where they are.

Except those who have children at free schools and they will move to fee paying if they have to pay. This plan might actually save money.

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233

Grumpy Dad

Something’s going on behind the scenes here. The Education Dept have someone with the altogether amazing title of Business Change Manager. Who is he, what does he do, where does he come from,how much is he paid and is he on a final salary pension scheme – of course? He is quoted as saying there’s plenty of capacity in the States system to absorb any children whose parents can’t afford the proposed hike in secondary school fees. Very heart-warming what about the child? Maybe our political representatives should start taking a look at the jobs like this that been created within the system over the past ten years most of them a complete waste of taxpayers’ money. Let’s see their salaries and job descriptions? I don’t work in the finance industry or public service. I am a creative freelance who has struggled and gone without for the past 18 years to put 3 daughters through Beaulieu.I did this because the first one was offered a place and the other two are being paid for out of fairness. Plus it’s top dollar. I am not a rich person but someone who has struggled unselfishly to do my best for my children in the hope it all work’s out OK for them.

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235

Surfer Girl

Wake up people! The States will now have to build extra schools with the money they think they will save! Swings and roundabouts.

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237

Anarchist

here’s an idea, why have “private schools” in the first place? the states schools are more than adequate, but if as a society we keep them, then the raising of fees will create more social divide, not less, by widening the gap between the have’s and the have nots. there was the opportunity for hardworking parents, who may want a slightly better start for their children to save and just afford the fees, now this has now been taken away. for all those 4X4 commentators, they are everywhere and are not exclusive to these schools and if anything it is these that should be taxed, not the hard working families’ childrens future! i will be voting out these short sighted incompetents.

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239

Vicky

Making cuts that affect children is just wrong. FYI I went to a fee-paying school and I know others that went to the other States schools and trust me, THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE. Not only are the teachers granted with more respect, we presented more conservatively and we did better in our exams, FACT! For those that think these are private schools you are incorrect, they are States Fee-Paying schools! Yes it is partly Tax-Payer funded, but as those parents that chose to send their children to these schools are probably paying higher taxes anyway, surely they deserve to reap more of the benefits no? You don’t have to be rich to be smart and it is your brains that should get you into a good school, not your wallet! If these schools are forced to be fully private, people will not be able to afford to go there forcing hundreds of extra pupils to all cram into the current States schools so everyone will suffer. In case no-one noticed, 4 of the 5 sixth form colleges are attached to fee paying schools, so this will have a massive affect on the amount of people going to university. If we don’t go to university, where will they find their graduates to work in their precious Finance Sector??……

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241

Jerseyboy

I’m a governor at a private school and have two kids there, who are now third generation pupils. Personally I don’t think it is the principle of a cut in the grants but the magnitude and how disproportionate the 50% is compared to other areas where cuts are proposed. Everyone would moan if all other subsidies in Jersey were slashed by half.

I also know that there is a LOT of misinformation and assumptions being made on this site, from both sides of the argument. Minister Reed has a lot more clarity to give before anyone is fully equipped to comment, particularly around capacity in all key stages in States schools.

A common strategy when you want something controversial over here is ‘double your wish, ride the outcry and reapply for half to make it look like a big concession’ – fingers crossed.

Anyone want to let me know why Hautlieu’s roof is coming off this weekend?

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243

tomkin

As expected there is some whining by those affected. They use intelligent arguments suggesting this might be counter-productive. All good political lobbying stuff.

However, I doubt everyone at those schools is so poor they won’t absorb the increase, and those that are too poor could sell their slightly larger houses and downsize a bit to fund their children’s education if needs be.

And those that truly can’t be bothered with that, or afford it, will come back to a States schools. And the States will have an extra £5m to cover that eventuality.

Counter-productive? I don’t think so. Sensible? I think this is one they’ve got right. More money in the States schools would mean improved education for a wider audience. Quite democratic methinks.

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245

Jack

In response to caroline mitchell’s comments, what makes you think that the tax payers of jersey should be forking out for the few number of people who think it will somewhat harm their children if they do mix with ‘ordinary people.’ If you want to go private thats up to you, but you can pay for it, private schools in jersey do nothing more than fuel the old boys club, schools like hautlieu are what form well-rounded friendly people who are also of an equal academic level. Try to have a rethink before you use the word disguisting so likely.

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247

steve

Jack – all taxpayers pay for education, 100% of the cost for states, but only 50% of the cost for fee paying, so these schools are saving the taxpayers several million a year. So lets close them all down so theres no “old boys club” – what?? – and then wait for you to complain how your taxes have gone up to fund the loss from fee payers!!. There are 5 schools that take students to A level, 4 are fee paying, so where do you propose to send A level students?

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249

El Tico

I’m surprised that there are so many ordinary people sending their kids to fee paying schools, I think this must be due to their relative affordability. I also think it’s an aspirational thing, people think that their kids will recieve a better education at a fee paying school. Whilst this may or may not be true, what they fail to realise is the education they recieve is limited by their intelligence, by and large thick parents produce thick kids and no amount of quality education is going to enable a child with a limited intellect to gain good qualifications.

In other words, if you are thick and send your kids to a fee paying school you are probably wasting your money, but hey I’m sure the school is happy to take your hard earned.

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251

Chloe

Well, before all these cuts to the private schools, the schools that are actually owned BY the States, didn’t get half as much as the private ones, which seems completely backwards to me. I’m not saying these cuts are deserved, don’t get me wrong, but I know a lot of people would like to see more of the States money invested in the public schools, rather than the private schools, which the States don’t actually own.

And if people have to take their kids out of private schools because of the raised fees, well I’d just like to say that public school’s scores concerning GCSE’s, etc, have pretty much always been higher than the private schools.. just saying.

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253

Rob

@249 – At Victoria College and JCG the pupils have to sit an entrance exam to get in. It is certainly not about who’s got the most cash. Yes it could be said that the other schools are in a position to take in kids who are under the banner that you describe.

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255

steve

Chloe 252, Hautlieu can take all of the A level students from 4 other schools? Maybe thats why they’ve taken the roof off, they are going to add another floor or three!! Anyone asked why thats happening so soon after a new build? Seriously though Hautlieu is full so I’d love to know the answer how they could take more students.
At the end of the day, in the middle of the worst recession Jersey’s seen, the states plan to take £5m out of the economy (as additional fees, if it goes through,- I very much have my doubts though and believe common sense will prevail with the ministers that matter)when we need consumer spending to support the economy. Thats £5m taken away from restaurants, shops etc as we all cut back to afford the fees.

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257

C Le Verdic

Wow! Until I started reading these posts I had no idea that there were so many public schools in Jersey!

Must be ‘standing room only’ at the Headmasters’ and Headmistresses’ Conference, eh?

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259

St.Johnny

I’m sick of hearing about ‘parents holding down two and three jobs’ to be able to afford school fees!…Brilliant, your children get a private education but never get to see their parents!

What’s the point in having children? The States schools are good enough and you don’t have to work 16 hours a day.

I really hope Deputy Reed has the strength to stick to his guns on this and not bow down to public opinion and false polls.

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261

PJG

Why pay for private education.
Does the child get a better education?

If so (which it seems to be in the main) why the hell should the taxpayer subsidise this inequality. Surely the whole point of private education is for those that “can” afford it to give their children an advantage in life.
By upping the fees all we are doing is drawing the line between the plebs and the chosen in a different place.

If a two tier system is considered immoral do away with public schools stop moaning how you can’t afford to be one of the advantaged.

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263

Progressive 3

Chloe 252*

Your comment about results are incorrect. Hautlieu’s results are nowhere near as good as the other schools – this is the reason (and the only reason) why the Education Department will not release the individual school figures.

Chloe, this information has come from someone very senior in the educations department.

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265

Working Class Hero

I urge everyone to read post 258, which gets to the nub of the issue. By removing the subsidy the net effect will be to INCREASE the cost to the States and everyone as taxpayers. There is currently a large appetite among many working families to send their children to fee paying schools (which are also selective in that an entrance exam needs to be passed to gain entry) and to effectively reduce the taxpayer’s expense by voluntarily contributing to the cost of their child’s education.

The plan to remove the subsidy is a false economy and will ultimately cost ALL taxpayers more. Sadly I fear reverse snobbery and envy is driving much of the sentiment expressed on these pages.

So to those of you who wish to see the subsidy cut, ask yourself the question: would you prefer your taxes pay £2,400 per annum for a child in a fee paying school or £6,100 per annum for them to take a place in a States school?

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267

emily

Progressive 3 I’ll have you know that Hautlieus grades for A2 this year were in fact higher in A*s than the fee paying schools – yes we do in fact have A*s in case you were wondering, they are available for people to gain one. I’m sure you must of heard from the fee paying schools… surely?

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269

Jools

Grainville’s GCSE results are on their website. Make your own judgements. You have to have a good CAT score to gain a place at Hautlieu, so this IS a selective school. We have to pay for a single sex education on Jersey because there is NO alternative (any more)

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271

progressive 3

emily 267*

Your comment is a very good example of the spin that the States put out about results.

It was in fact a PRIVATE girls school that attained the highest A* results for A2 this year – - not Hautlieu

The very fact that so many parents want their children to go to Private/Fee paying schools says a lot about what they think of the states system!

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273

angry.

SB 244* your daughter must of attended a pretty rubbish secondary school to have only that percentage of pass rates.

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275

JW

Why cant people pay for their own school fees without whinging. I had to pay for mine, doing the degree at night school whilst working. If people want free education, do it at their own expense and not mine!

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277

NDJ

120* concerned st lawrence
I agree with 274* Angry. In your comment you insinuated that children attending States Schools are children of alcoholics or jobless people who are too lazy to go out and get a job and earn money and instead live off benefits.
Well i attend Hautlieu and i can say that my parents certainly don’t fit into your stereotype. My father owns 3 buisnesses and my mother has a very good job also. They pay taxes and certainly DO NOT live off of benefits. So before you make your assumptions, stop being so petty minded !

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279

Rozel Aubin

‘It’s off to the poor, deprived, unwashed child infested public schools for your little angel.’

I wonder how many of the great unwashed in the U.K. are mistakenly supporting “Shiny” Dave and his school chums after thinking that the toffs must have gone to their type of school?

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281

Chloe

@tracey,
Well to be honest, like I stated before, the colleges are PRIVATE. The meaning of PRIVATE means that they are supposed to be self-sufficient, they work from their own funds, not from the States, OR the taxpayers. But, they don’t, which seems a little backwards to me.

Seems like you might not ‘get it’.

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