GST up to 5% in crisis Budget
Friday 22nd October 2010, 3:00PM BST.
Senator Ozouf outside Cyril Le Marquand house: Dozens of jobs will be lost if the proposed £65 million is wiped from States' department budgets
GST is to rise, higher earners are in line to pay more Social Security and States departments are to be dramatically cut under a hard-hitting Budget plans announced today.
In one of the toughest budget statements for decades, Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf has ended months of speculation and revealed that he plans to increase GST from three per cent to five per cent.
The minister also revealed plans to:
* Increase social security payments for Islanders earning more than £44,232
* Increase stamp duty on properties worth over £1 million
* Hit smokers, drinkers and motorists with duty increases
* And wipe £65 million from States’ departments’ budgets next year as part of a wide-ranging cuts programme which will result in dozens of job losses.
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So as the Inflation Rate allegedly drops to 2.1% !
We are all saved!
I’ve not experienced a drop in price on anything – What products are used for this calculation? Has Organic Peruvian Yaks milk gone down in price?!?!?
GST is to be increased thus rendering this calculation null and void . . . !
Glass of Yaks milk anyone, quick before GST goes up!
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I could stomach the rise in GST if it’s purpose was to get us out of the current difficulties we are facing. If it then went back down to 3% but of course it won’t, nor will it stay at 5%, this will eventually rival VAT and this bunch of muppets will piss away any gains made. I suppose we can look forward to more dummy spitting from the unions, the French are revolting I hear.
At least they aren’t touching the rich.
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At long last – reality seems to be sinking in…
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Going up.. well not at 20%..yet!
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So whats new?
This was their aim when they brought this never-ending tax in.
On a never-ending gravy train to rob us even more.
Less spending in the Island that’s for sure,so now I shall shop more at amazon for food,as they insist the GST shall remain on food.Immoral and downright wrong IMO.
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Hoorah, at least they didn’t do the stupid thing an increase tax rates for families over £100k!
No-one wants to pay more, but given the circumstances, we are much better off than the mainland, so all thise sounds relatively fair. Woudl have preferred the Social security to remain, but only a 2% extra for salaries over the threshhold, rather than the 6%, and GST decision – sound.
No-one can complain about this decision – except of course the trolls, to which nothing pleases…
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well i am pleased to see they have not taxed us on the air we breathe yet.
Maybe next year then!!!!!!!!
But yet again as we discussed in work, the rich are getting richer & the poor getting poorer.
And how long before out GST gets to 17.5%, the uk started at 2.5% & they have got too 17.5%, & whatever happened to them stopping VAT that shops are still charging.
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The usual spiteful remarks from No.6 You can almost taste the bile.
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Shopkeepers might as well just shut up shop now. Only mugs will buy locally and everyone will be shopping online. Nice one Mr Ozouf.
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Hoorah for internet shopping, at least they dont VAT you in the UK on things you must buy (i.e basic food, kids clothes), but hey will call it goods and services tax and we’ll fleece the poor. My boss on near £165k still pays less than 20% through clever SIPPs etc. 20 means 20 though, oh unless of course you’re loaded in which case it doesn’t……..
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Love your comment William (comment 7)I would be more than happy to bring you over some emergency loo roll from Tesco when I next visit Jersey!!With 5% on top of VAT I can understand why more and more people will be shopping on the internet or filling up their cars on a trip to the UK.St Helier will soon become a ghost town!
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Get GST up to 20% and we could join the EU! Offshore finance centres played a disproportionate role in the financial meltdown given their little populations so I guess this is payback.
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2% charge on social security. How is this going to work as those who are only just at this level would have to pay nearly £900 on top of all those other taxes, were as some one on £100,000 would still only pay a £900 charge. This hardly seems fair and is going to be terribly damaging to many hard working familes.
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“Hoorah, at least they didn’t do the stupid thing an increase tax rates for families over £100k!”
By my reckoning this budget will result in a family with two children at private school shelling out a good £7,500+ extra at a conservative estimate on the increased school fees, social security, fuel duty, GST, etc.
Another 2% GST does not sound like much but it is on everything, the UK has a whole raft of exemptions on food, childrens’s clothes, etc.
The less well off will be protected by more benefits, the really wealthy have their negotiated tax agreements, middle Jersey will end up digging deep.
That is the truth of the matter!
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The unsustainable public sector final salary pension scheme and public sector retirement ages really have to be addressed, the longer this is put off the begger the problem gets.
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Real truthseeker you make me laugh.
Well we’re on the way towards VAT levels as I predicted some time ago. Its good to the rich are left alone yet again. Nevermind those on the breadline will take up the slack even if it kills them.
GST is a regressive tax hitting the poorest in our society, the most, it appears those in charge don’t care about this. The big O should be ashamed of himself. Mind you with clowns in the electorate who voted for him it isn’t surprising.
Things are going downhill and they are going fast…
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It is a forgone conclusion that the treasury minister will get his proposals through the States because of the block vote that exists.
Senator Ozoufs platitudes to increase the level of income support insenses me as a life on benefits is now a lifestyle choice in Jersey. Clearly a tax free income with rent paid beats working 9 to 5 for many of the unskilled claimants. I am not that narrow minded to lump all benefit claimants into the same boat. Some people would surley prefer to be out at work – however if you are unskilled or of a certain age then you will receive more money on befeits that in wages and jobs are scarce and becoming scarcer.
This island has had a budget surplus for years and years and money has surley been squnadered, and sadly it is still happening.
We tax payers have footed the bill for the suspension of Graham Power, which included the cost of the Napier report. This was money that need not have been spent if procedures had been correctly followed. Our chief minister would deny such a claim but the evidence is there for all to see.
How many millions has the incinerator cost because no one thought to do a forward deal on euros? The Pinel debacle another example of hundred of thousands of tax payers money wasted, Mr Days suspension another example of failure to adhere to process.
The present assembly do not reprenset the people and are disengaged from the electorate, but they will get away with this and much more becasue the people will not engage politically it follows that we get the government that we deserve.
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What is the point in getting annoyed about this…No on ever listens. The states memebers do what THEY want not what the Island NEEDS. It will NEVER change.
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It’s an OK budget, but totally unimaginative. I could have cleared the black hole without causing anyone any pain. Don’t believe me? Here’s how:
I would have legalised drugs, and sold them through a States owned outlet. By freeing the drug mules in La Moye, reducing the amount of people at customs and taxing drugs sensibly, I believe we would have saved in the region of £40-50m a year. All the evidence suggests that as a by product we would also reduce drug usage as a result.
I would also have imposed a tax of 20% on all businesses trading through premises that are open to the public, are at least 1,000 square foot, and have a turnover of at least £500k a year. This would have caught the shops trading in the island that are currently taxed at 0% and as a result pay no tax. It also would not have caused damage to the finance industry and the need to tax investment companies at 0%.
Those two changes would have cleared our black hole without requiring a penny more from the man in the street.
But there is not one person in the States, on either side, with any vision or ability to innovate.
Real truthseeker – while I agree with your basic philosophy, Jersey is a community and the divide between haves and have-nots is currently not acceptable. That does not mean we need higher headline tax for the haves, but it does mean that the haves need to better understand that they are fortunate, should not seek to minimise their tax liability too aggressively, and should not gloat at expense of the have-nots.
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I don’t beliiieeeve it!!
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as much as everyone will kick up a fuss, it seems that most are here to complain about it.
let’s face reality here – everyone will moan and be quite vocal about the rise, but no-one is going to do anything about it.
we tried that whole petition thing when they first introduced GST, and the states basically laughed in our faces. if this is such a great democracy why aren’t we insisting these imbeciles are removed from running our government?
come on Ozouf, raise GST if you have to, but at least scrap it on food….at least give the public something back, and maybe proportionally raise the social security charges to how much people earn, not lumber EVERYONE (and by everyone I mean people 1p over the margin).
Think its about time for a revolution over here, maybe how they’ve done in France, but instead of vandalising each others property maybe we can just lob tomatoes at the states chambers and refuse to work until they retract. best do it before next year, as it will cost us 2% more to buy them
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If the States had been consistant over the last 15 years and spent wisely we would not be in this situation, Millions of pounds have been quandered and noone is ever accountable or dealt with look at Haute De La Garenne swept under the carpet like everything else and now working people are going to suffer. The sooner we have democratic Goverment the better.
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poor poor Jersey, look what it has become! I want out of this Island, Im a middle class working person who does not get benefits, is not a high earner so people like me and my family will be hit really hard with this..
The people on benefits wont mind as they will get more benefits, the rich have accountants so they can net off any extra amounts they have to pay against their tax somehow..anyway, Geneva or Australia is looking very good to me to move to. Away from these money grabbing states members who still get a salary increase, still have free parking, still have their lunch paid for by people like me and others that work.
bye bye Jersey, me and my family are out a here!
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Can we have a 2% increase in the calibre of our politicians as well please! (yes I do know that that represents a very small real increase).
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Senator Ozouf may be hardworking but has not got the experience to fully understand the big picture. To deal with the real long-term financial problems that Jersey faces,he needs to start with the public sector wage bill of £317,000,000 paid, before Jersey buys a sheet of A4. That’s £317 million for forty five square miles.
Rolls Royce public services says CM Terry Le Suer, not according to the Verita report, or the serious case revue ( young abused boy, failed by several states department’s for twelve years).
TTS and admitting to toxic waste problems on the incinerator site, two incidents resulting in police investigations.
Incompetence by a bloated Planning department over Reg’s Skips fiasco highlighted in a report by John Mills and committee. This will result in heavy compensation paid for by the taxpayer.
The expensive suspension fiasco caused by a States Human resources department that makes up the rules ( or is not listened to) and employers doctors without checking their full skill capability.
The Police chief and Mr Day and a Magistrate ( Mr Chistmas ?) all expensive suspention scandal’s and large associated costs, although Napier said the Power was unfairly treated at the suspension and Mr Day has been reinstated.
This sends another clear signal that something is very badly wrong with the workings of the public sector.
So how many people have been asked to leave the public sector for not being able ( or willing ) to perform their daily work task’s competently and efficiently ? Just one with a lovely big pension and tea chest of money as a golden handshake.
Until you sort out the accountability, efficiency and value for money issues Senator Ozouf, in the extremely over paid, and over-manned public sector, Jersey will continue gently down the other side of the hill to the dark valley below.
Davey West.
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Overpaid incompetence
So every body are targeted except our ministers who will get a pay-rise after all ! But what is the real figure of the government spending (what they are not telling us”.
Here are few examples:The incinerator ,The waterfront swimming pool ,Liberation station
How much cost the resurfacing of the avenue.A year and a half to resurface half a mile of road.Lets compare with some of our french neighbour’s works of art and engineering:the Eiffel tower ,320 meter,7000 tons of steel,was build in two years (1887-1889). The Millau Bridge,highest bridge in the world 2460 meter long only 38 month to build.
and Haut de la garenne etc,etc,etc…
For that so called expert who came to Jersey living at the cost of £1000 a day to tell you how to do your job Mr Ozouf.We are paying for all your incompetence Mister so called politicians.
so tonight when you are all going to bed just thnk about this word “DEMISSION” I am sure it will make sens
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Oh well – more online shopping !!!
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Well, I agree 100% with Mulvie Le Phew ! Exactly right… All these politicians will do is agree for themselves a new pay rise AND commission a few extra reports . But don’t worry peoples- it’s our international reputation that’s on the line. Forget about the commoners that actually live here. We do not count except on voting day. Just remember that.
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I welcome the proposed changes. My only regret is that GST should be increased to 10%. It should be noted that only 13,000 of us pay significant income tax in Jersey. It is about time everyone shares the burden.
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If States Members were held personally responsible for their mistakes we would not need these extra taxes. From there membership pay I am sure that they can afford some sort of liability insurance to cover against moments of insanity.
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I think that 24. Jersey girl’s comment best sums up the situation in a nutshell.
No pain, no gain and the deficit must be cleared but what really concerns me with GST, school fees, increased parking, Social security, payment for prescriptions etc. is that all this hits the middle classes. The ones who don’t always vote, pay their taxes, work hard to buy a house and are probably just above the bracket to pay for their childrens university fees.
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To be honest, what your seeing here is a microcosm of whats happening in Britain the the rest if the world. Jerseyis th etest ground. Slowely the island is becominf ruled by this elite who will support their friends and the rich. The poor are there only to service them and they can live in damp, crumbling homes with a media that protects the rich.
Folks, unless you want poverty and a transient workforce and the destruction of Jersey proper, when folks will exist to serve their masters and are then discarded into poverty, you need to stand up and do something about it.
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The increase in GST will have no impact on people who rely on income support to supplement their income or states pensioners as income support states pensions and other states benefits are linked to cost of living.
For other people, there are large parts of their annual expenditure that is not subject to GST – Income tax, social security contributions, mortgage interest, rents, university fees, air fares and holidays etc.etc.
For an average family with average earnings, average mortgage, and average holidays etc an increase of 2% in the rate of GST may add 1% to annual costs and in most cases will be hardly noticed.
So please stop moaning everyone – most places in the world have had much more austere budgets this year.
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sorry it is very curel and same as states member.
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what we need is to get the french over to show people how one shows dissatisfaction with a useless government.
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The extra 2% will cover the salaries of all the extra customs officers needed to sift to the thousands of parcels / boxes checking wether the goods are eligable for this tax. I believe there is already a number qualified drug busting officers who are office bound exactly doing that instead of getting killer drugs off our streets
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Colossal bad management..Jersey had money coming out of our ears not long ago…despite repeated requests from politicians and the treasury no one will confirm whether the Rainy day fund still exists…for that reason alone I believe they have either blown it on the stock market…like the other 250 Mill.. or simply raided it and it’s spent.
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David Peters @29
You say,
It should be noted that only 13,000 of us pay significant income tax in Jersey. It is about time everyone shares the burden.
Do you not think that the GST tax, which taxes everyone and then rewards the treasurer with £45 million, may be an indirect tax but the amount still comes from the pockets of islanders. Is this not a significant amount of money taken out of society ? or not relevant to your way of thinking ?
The user pays stealth tax, which props up many states department runs into millions, you forgot to mention this income stream for the Government, all coming out of islanders pay packets. I suggest very significant..
There are between 45,000 to 49,000 people employed in Jersey, but you say only 13,000 pay significant taxes. Please define significant, and your source please. It also occurs to me that if a person pays just £500 pounds in tax clearly the person is contributing to the pot, and not on heavy benefits.
Davey West,
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Why don’t we go for 12.5% GST, make it a criminal offence for retailers to include UK VAT in their prices, charge GST on all imports to close the loophole, raise the Income Tax exemption limit to take more people out of the Income Tax net, introduce a simple credit system for very low-earners (ie those who don’t earn enough to pay income tax now) to be reimbursed for the unavoidable GST that they would pay, introduce a new marginal rate of income tax of 25% for all income over £125,000, enforce a minimum £200k of tax for all 11(k) residents and consider a tax on gains from the sale of Jersey property of 10%, reducing by 2% per annum to zero after 5 years of ownership?
If 3% GST raised £45m per annum then 5% will raise at least £75m, so 12.5% would raise nearly £190m. It would be totally wrong to raise GST further without the compensating offset measures I suggest above, but the whole package, together with the public sector cuts already announced, would surely put Jersey back on track within 5 years whilst spreading the burden more fairly.
I’d go one step further and announce that GST would be formally scrapped on 31st December 2015 so that if it is needed thereafter the starting point for discussing the rate is 0%, not 12.5% and not even 5%.
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Well – not many of us are happy about this it seems. We must not forget that we are in a 12 month lead up to the next elections, and a lot of these muppets will be seeking re-election. Remember their names and remember them well, and also do not forget that you already have elected politicians who are paid for by you to work for you, so bombard them any way you can and ask them to work towards not getting this tax raised.
Food and clothing are necessities for everybody, rich and poor, young and old, but it will be the poor and elderly who will be hit hardest. It is an unfair burden to place on them as food prices seem to be rising rapidly of late in any event.
Make your voices heard. It is your right.
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Yeah, 2% GST raise – will this cover the 2% salary increase they’ve given themselves, or will that need to be taken from the additional 2% on social security????
The revolution is no longer a light at the end of the tunnel…..
No more mortgage relief, another raise in parking charges (which went up 14% a short while ago), the introduction of GST which no one ever wanted etc etc etc,…. Can’t even have a drink to blank it out – unless you can manage to find a bank to top up your mortgage to pay for it!!!
But, the one which really grates me is that our ‘Treasury’ refuse to tell us exactly what they collect and how those funds have been, and are being utilised.
Must be soooo nice to have a never ending stream of funds to spend as the whim takes you from day to day!
How do you get blood from a stone??
Listen VERY carefully Ozouf & co –
WE CAN BARELY LIVE NOW – WE DON’T HAVE ANY MORE!!!
Guess the brown stuff will really hit the fan when these numpties have managed to rid Jersey of it’s working population and they have to return to the farming fields – just hope I’m still around to see that one happen!!
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Candidates in the last election warned that gst was a dangerous valve that could like a tap be increased at will without public consultation any time it suited them….not enough listened it seems…..and if you think it will stop there you are the optimist of the century.
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Lets not forget as well as these rises in tax we will also see another 1/4 of our allowances disappear thanks to 20 means 20.
It’s just a shame that 20 means 20 doesn’t apploy to 11k’s how have negotioated there own tax.
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2% social security over 44k is a form of tax. Working parents will pay this 1(1)K s will not. I hope when the Ministers circle their wagons supported by their nodding donkey Constables that they all remember we still have a vote. Even Gerard Baudain and Gino Risollo stand a chance at this rate.
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#20 We really have to stop agreeing like this
Well said.
#30 If they pay “significant” income tax because they are such high earners (or have inherited millions) then that’s fair enough, their money comes from somewhere and it certainly isn’t from creating more hours in the day than other workers have in theirs.
You cannot run a nation without people taking on the low-paid jobs, that’s just a fact, and the low earners simply won’t be taxed as much because they do not have it to give. Try living your life without them though. Maybe you have to stop looking only at the tax paid and take into account the social value of a job. Many high paid jobs are of little value to the majority of society (save for their tax income). So I would suggest that tax paid by an employee and social value of their job are equally important, both are needed. Some jobs are weighted to one side, others are more equal in both aspects, that’s just life.
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Julie: ‘I would be more than happy to bring you over some emergency loo roll from Tesco when I next visit Jersey!!’
Assuming that you will be bringing the car, Julie, have you discovered, yet, the disdain which Jersey drivers keep ready for cars with UK plates? Of course they have no idea whether the cars are driven by island expats or not. Many of the disdainful have, themselves, only recently climbed aboard the good ship Jersey but the sense of belonging is very bonding!
I hope that poor old William is not on a water meter. Although I am a left-handed eater, I can see the benefits of the Indian method but would have to think carefully about relative costs if I didn’t have a free water supply!
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#20. I would have legalised drugs, and sold them through a States owned outlet.
Here’s a thought, Donald. Drugs tourism – like Amsterdam.
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Just found this lot on insight!! I think it time to give up.
We will be paying 5% GST from next June under Budget proposals revealed by our Treasury Minister.
Alcohol duty will rise by 6.7%, and a packet of cigarettes will cost 35 pence more from 1st January.
And £2 million pounds worth of ’user-pays’ charges will be introduced, if the States agrees in December.
They include:
*fees for people who go to A&E when they should have gone to a GP instead
*A £5 charge for all prescriptions issued by Health and Social Services
* charges for patients getting care for ’insurable events’ eg road traffic accidents
* fees for using the Smoking Cessation service
* removing the subsidy for travel to the UK for elective surgery
* An increase in planning application fees
* charges for using the Jersey Instrumental Service
* Likely rises in admission costs at sport centres
And States departments will see a total of £65 million shaved off their budgets by 2013 by:
* Merging the Fire and Ambulance Services
* Highlands and Hautlieu will have to work closer together
* Moving Planning and Environment to smaller, cheaper premises
* Merging Jersey Enteprise and the Independent Jersey Business Venture
* More than 70 are likely to take Voluntary Redundancy
* Other cuts include looking at staff costs
Senator Philip Ozouf says it is a budget for difficult times, but one that future generations will thank us for
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It’s strange that no one has mentioned the effect of the proposed increase on GST on local retailers, vis a vis small businesses.They pay for imports by the pallet load.GST is levied on transport costs from the UK. As an Island, we have no choice but to pay shipping charges,often more than the saving in UK VAT, but these do not add value to the goods and yet GST continues to be levied.The application of GST on shipping and UK transport is plainly wrong and should be replaced by a levy purely on the cost of the goods at source.
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RB Bougourd (comment 47)Oh yes I am well aware of that although I am quite crafty as a rule- I use my sons local car to get about in-then they are fooled!!However I may contemplate coming over in our 4X4 next time(more room for loo rolls etc)although a 4X4 with UK plates? Blimey I would probably get pelted with rotten eggs (if they weren’t so expensive in Jersey!)
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#49 ‘Senator Philip Ozouf says it is a budget for difficult times, but one that future generations will thank us for’
The island is run by, and on behalf of, people who are immune to difficult times of the sort that affect the rest of the world.
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Truthseeker, yet again you demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the social system we operate in. We elect candidates to represent us in the decision making process, so why go back to the public again? The system would fall apart if every decision had to be referred to the public for a vote.
Our elected officials represent a cross section of the public, so there are the annoying left-wingers, and the decisive leadership of the right-wingers. As is the majority of the public are right-minded, so is the make up of the States fortunately (otherwise we would end up a backwater like Cuba if we had it your way).
Accordingly, this decision to raise GST is based on making a fair approach to deal with the economic situation facing Jersey.
I don’t want to pay more GST, but appreciate hard decisions have to be made.
Thankfully your lot don’t have your fingers anywhere near the pot.
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“Truthseeker, yet again you demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the social system we operate in. We elect candidates to represent us in the decision making process, so why go back to the public again? The system would fall apart if every decision had to be referred to the public for a vote.
No, candidates stand for election they become members when elected.
Plenty of countries have referenda on important matters including Switzerland which has cantonal meetings and other instruments of direct democracy and the United States which uses referenda at state level.
You are really going to have to try harder at this democracy thing!
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Correct, referendum votes occur for substantial matters like does a country decide to become a republic, or for the death penalty.
Not for management issues like financing the State. These are what they have the job to do, I don’t want to run to the polls every time a decision is required.
The committee system didn’t work, and was way to costly and never resulted in decisions being made.
These guys make decisions, and if the public won’t wear it, they get voted out – simple.
If they get voted back in, then they are doing their job.
Of course, there will always be dissenters, but just because you, or Truthseeker doesn’t like it, doesn’t make it the wrong decision.
The majority of Jersey voters vote them back in because whilst they don’t like some decisions, overall they are making the hard decisions as fair as possible.
Remember, it is easy to dog whistle to the tune, but people see right through it! Deputy Tadier hold the biggest dog whistle of all!
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Cantonal meetings in Switzerland and town or county meetings in the United States play an important role in their local democracy. Both countries have a strong tradition of involving citizens in local decisions. The parish assembly plays a similar but weaker role in Jersey.
Referenda occur at town, county and state level in the US and can be on surprisingly trivial matters.
The US also has a very strong tradition of electing local officials like the mayor, sheriff and even the stray dog catcher!
Actually States decision making is still weak, that is one of the flaws of Ministerial government.
Also in many cases they won’t get voted out. Deputy Reed did not face an election last time round and probably won’t face one next year either so the island is stuck with him.
Most of the Constables have never faced an election and won’t face one next time either.
Your cliches, untruths, misrepresentations and insults do not make an effective argument!
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While Real Truthseeker’s some what combative style may be OK on here, the same will not apply in the State’s chamber if he ever makes it there.
The house takes itself, the dignity of the chair and a strict adherence to the Westminister style of debate very seriously indeed.
Calling a fellow member a dog whistler will lead to a reproof from the Bailiff, further similar offences will lead to trouble with Procedures and Privileges and even suspension from the house.
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Well done Pip. A very measured and logical arguement. I particularly liked your summation of the historic Jersey tax system as a subsidy system from Corporates (mainly overseas controlled structures) to each class of private individual. I guess as we can all see now, 0-10 for the Corporates really has resulted in a shift in the tax burden to the private individuals apart from the uber rich. It would be good to see if anyone has produced models showing how the tax take (indirect, direct,increased school fees and loss of mortgage interest relief etc) has grown for individuals and families at various income levels over the last five years. I have a feeling that the additional percentage paid is quite significant. Its probably even greater than the figures produced by the IFS in the UK where the government is looking to clear the £150 billion budget deficit in 5 years.
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The only reason Reed didn’t face an election was no one ran against him, so it isn’t his fault.
In fact Reed and Vibert both ran meet the candidate meetings, and treated it as though they were in election, so tryign to make something out of what isn’t there is an irrelevance.
It doesn’t weaken my point, that in Jersey we can decide things, but not taxes – and nor do USA, Australian, New Zealand, or Suisse meetings either.
So your point is the one lacking validity!
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Real Truthseekers reasoning seems to be as flawed as his typing or worse his spelling.
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Pip – you certainly need an education in the Westminster style. Churchill comments to Mrs Braddock about being ugly received no rebuff by anyone. IT was a fact.
Just as if it is a fact a person dog whistles to receive easy popular support without making hard decisions, then I can guarantee the only thing that will happen is the Bailiff will wryly smile.
Pip, there are days when I enjoy your logical well thought out argument, and am impressed. Then there are days like today when you let yourself down immeasurably.
And my dear, I will be sober in the morning…
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“Pip – you certainly need an education in the Westminster style. Churchill comments to Mrs Braddock about being ugly received no rebuff by anyone. IT was a fact.”
Churchill’s remark was not made in the chamber of the house.
You can be as rude as you like outside the chamber but inside the chamber fellow members must be treated with respect.
If you get elected you will have to find out the hard way what you can and cannot say, just like Stuart Syvret and Jim Perchard!
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Eric Blair – and that is the entirety of your contribution.
Jersey is safe when those who oppose my views are unable to argue logically a sound proposition, but otherwise simply make their point by focussing on a typo.
Jersey will forever be safe from the lunatic lef-wing fringe for as long as their contribution remains.
The only person on here with some semblance of logic from the left-wing cause is Pip. PErhaps we shoudl run against eachother Pip!
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Here we go;
http://www.statesassembly.gov.je/frame.asp
Click on Hansard and learn!
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No 60, Yes RT we all know the background of your line “And my dear, I will be sober in the morning” when Churchill was accused of being drunk and called his accuser an ugly woman. So the level of your postings and insults sinks to a new depth of personal attacks. Please do us all a favour and go back to New Zealand or stop posting. Bit of a mysoginist aren’t we.
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With escalating levels of violence on the streets of St Helier, we need London type policing. How soon are we going to see people being murdered?
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I am all for helping reduce the deficit, but the proposed rise is GST in 2011 will push many households to the limit.
Many Jersey retailers charge VAT as well as GST on goods as there pricing systems do not remove the VAT tax and often using the cost of shipping and freight charges as the reasoning behind the inflated price in Jersey . So an increase in the VAT rate in the UK as well as the proposed GST rate next year could result in a 4.5% increase for the Jersey citizen. If the proposed rise in the GST rate is passed the Jersey Government should use the money to crack down on the retailers charging VAT inflated prices. Then maybe the public would be more forgiving. At present the proposed GST increase is a cost that will fall heavily on many households in Jersey.
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Pip, au contraire, it was said in the house. In fact, you can’t say what you like outside the house due to laws relating to slander. In the house there is what exists as Parliamentary Privilege. Accordingly, in the house is free reign. I will put it to the test as evidence.
Claire: Please get with the program, and catch up to the conversation before spouting off.
By the way, I have no intention of going anywhere ….
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No, it was not said in the house, in fact there is now record of it being said anywhere;
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-465577/Hagues-baseball-cap-Mandelsons-mushy-peas-True-tales-just-great-political-myths.html
A member of the Commons is not allowed to accuse another member of the Commons of being drunk within the chamber, here is a documented example when Clare Short attempted to use the circumlocution incapable when referring to a very drunk Alan Clarke;
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1983/jul/20/sex-discrimination#S6CV0046P0_19830720_HOC_437
Bessie Braddock was a very able and astute parliamentarian and would have known that, Churchill could be cutting outside the House but was a great respecter of the House and would not have replied across the chamber in that manner.
Here is the Deputy Bailiff’s ruling on the use of ‘B All To Do Club’ from Hansard 12 October 2010;
“Senator P.F.C. Ozouf:
I have previously referred to the … I will not use the actual word but the group that the Deputy has, which is beginning with B: “B All To Do Club” and he is remarkably well informed sometimes but sometimes he also should not, I think, perhaps, cast aspersions – and I am not sure whether he was – in relation to senior people within Durrell. I hope he was not. Durrell is a charitable trust which has a separate governance body which is chaired independently by some significantly experienced Islanders and I would have thought that that gives Members and the Deputy every confidence that the financial probity within Durrell is at the highest level.
The Deputy Bailiff:
In case the expression should gain any sort of credence with Members, I do not regard a “B All To Do Club” as a parliamentary expression. We now come to question 15, which Deputy Trevor Pitman will ask of the Minister for Education, Sport and Culture.
Hence I maintain my point that dog whistler would be ruled as unparliamentary, they are delicate little flowers in there!
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My remark “You can be as rude as you like outside the chamber but inside the chamber fellow members must be treated with respect.”
Real Truthseeker’s remark “In fact, you can’t say what you like outside the house due to laws relating to slander.”
Once again he is being misleading, there is a great difference between being rude or insulting to someone and slandering them. Members of the Commons or the States can engage in name calling outside the chamber but inside the chamber clear rules exist on the acceptable conduct of members towards each other.
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# 64. ‘Please do us all a favour and go back to New Zealand or stop posting.’
Claire, be fair to New Zealand. That’s a Jersey attitude he has!
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@No 1
I’m surprised no one else has mentioned but a drop in inflation to a smaller positive figure just means prices aren’t growing as quickly as they were in the previous period.
For prices to fall you would need inflation to be negative.
@no 66
Jersey retailers do not charge VAT. VAT is a UK tax and no sales made in Jersey are subject to it.
If you feel the price should be lower to reflect the fact the local retailer does not have to hand over ~15%* of the sale price to HMR&C as their UK counterpart does, then make them an offer and see what they say. After all, the price tag is just an invitation to treat and you may quite rightfully offer a different price to that displayed. It is then the merchants decision whether or not they accept that offer.
* for those who may well question why I’ve said ~15%. VAT is 17.5%, which is added to the cost of the goods so the ticket price you see is 117.5% of the real sale price (i.e. what the vendor gets to keep). So, to remove the VAT from the ticket price you need to take off 17.5 / 117.5 = 14.89%
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Pip, I am off to New Zealand next week, which is where I head for the NZ summer (via Port Douglas in Australia – check it out, lovely place).
So please don’t miss me, and keep truthseeker honest, even though you share its views…
lots of love and hugs to my fellow bloggers…
Until next year.
xoxo
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My husband earns just over the threshold, with him being the only earner and 2 young children (both of whom will be going to states school)we are barely making ends meet. The increase to his social security contributions AND the increase to GST will financially cripple us! What ARE they thinking in the states???!!! By all means increase social contributions but the threshold level needs to be revised!
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72, your response to Claire said you were going nowhere but in a couple of days you’ve changed your mind. You would certainly make a good politician. PS look forward to your team choking again next year at the world cup.
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@73. Why not get a job and help ease the financial burden not just of your husband in supporting your family, but of the tax payer as well.
If more people worked and came off benefits, then perhaps we wouldn’t have all these rises in tax/GST etc.
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74 Tom: Correct, but I intend to return, and may even log on when abroad. I took it that Claire wanted me off the island for ever. I will be back.
75: Big Bean: Couldn’t have said that better myself. How lucky she is to not have to work, my wife has to work 3 days a week!
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“Pip, I am off to New Zealand next week, which is where I head for the NZ summer (via Port Douglas in Australia – check it out, lovely place).”
Off to lifeguard through the Kiwi summer then?
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I will be getting on with nursing the parish.
A regular round of church going, giving lifts to the aged, chatting to the mainly elderly ex farmers.
They are the ones that vote and the current incumbent is so right wing that they are beginning to regard him with suspicion if not downright dislike.
He has been silly enough to support James Reed’s school fee rises in public and in a parish where almost everyone of any influence is a product of one of the colleges that is almost a political deathwish.
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Catch up in the New Year.
The only one’s I saw supporting the school fee rises where the left as usual…
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I suppose I shouldn’t be encouraging him, but you can post on here from New Zealand!
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RTD2? I believe he is going back to Stewart Island as the kiwi birds and pengiuns might be daft enough to have him. If they turn him I’m told the Chatham Islands could be a place of last resort.
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Thanks Le Verdic.
ALready savd in my favourites, but I intend to hang our on the beach, and go for the odd summer run.
Hugs and kisses CLV. See you soon enough
xoxo
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Pip – well done, if you need to give any of the old folk a lift by the way, let me know, I will send my driver around…
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76, didn’t rise to the bait so presumably a whinging Aussie. Can our very opened minded custom officials give a kick up the b**k side to any male aussies or nz’s leaving the island in the near future given the level of snide remarks from this individual. I’m not a bean and yet the level of hazzing this lad has sunk to certainly needs a physical response.
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Real Truthseeker’s wacky neo liberal Chicago school politics that seems to have been gleaned from Seventies’ copies of The Economist can be quite amusing at times but sadly he seems to be resorting more to personal abuse now.
He seems to be backtracking on standing for election as well, which is a pity as Jersey needs a lunatic fringe candidate or two to bring some fun to elections!
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Real truthseeker
So you’re going home, are you?
Excellent decision!
New Zealand is a beautiful place, much nicer than Jersey, you should really consider staying there for good…dif’nit’ly one of the bist things thet you could evah do!
P.S. You can drop the fake British-standard accent in your homeland…beck to normil chet, ey!
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Pip – I am not backtracking!!!!! I WILL BE RUNNING! I am not abusing you, as love your wit, and humour. It is the other muppets I find tedious.
What gave you the idea I was back tracking?
Sue Premacy: You are right, NZ is beautiful, and south island the best! I will be back, so dont’ worry.
Lots of love,
RT
xoxo
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