Rise in GST ‘too much for elderly’
Saturday 23rd October 2010, 3:00PM BST.
Age Concern chairwoman Daphne Minihane
STATES Members have been urged by Age Concern chairman Daphne Minihane to exempt food and clothes from GST if they raise it to five per cent.
She wants the States to look again at applying UK-style exemptions to basic essentials like food and clothing, in the light of the GST increase proposed by ministers in the Budget yesterday.
Nick Corbel, Unite union spokesman, also said that the proposed rise in GST would hit the poorest members of society. ‘This is going to make life even more difficult for the people who are already struggling day-to-day,’ he said
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Pensions and income support are inflation linked, so I do not understand why they claim the GST hits poor pensioners or the poorest in society, it quite clearly doesn’t – when GST is increased, cost of living will increase and they will get a pension/benefit increase.
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Always the elderly. Most of them have more in savings than young families will have in their lives!
How about giving middle jersey and young families a break for once!
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Oh dear god, Daphne Minihaine is off again.
Sorry dear, but the rise in GST is too much for a whole lot of people, for example those on low income but with high rents. I concur that many elderly people will find it difficult, however there will be plenty of younger people that will find it just as hard, in some cases considerably more so.
Just to glibly claim that all elderly people will now struggle is the sort of nonsense I expect to hear from Ms Minihaine, who just does not realise that her little knitting circle share the island with other people that are finding life just as difficult.
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gst on food is a disgrace. the govement(some )could not give two figs.
we can all do without the new car, the new batch of electricals, the new batch of clothing.
but without food we become ill and unhealthy.
it matters not if you own your home or not.
i can only guess that there are a good few o a p
home owners who will think food or heat this winter , if they run gas, do i look foreword to retirement( i am 50) ,
i have broken employment , i will not make the magic figure, to collect a full pension, un less ernie comes up i am doomed to albeit poverty.
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Sorry Daphne don’t you remember the recent comments about the elderly being a threat to society, this is there way to get rid of us !!!
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I thought the elderly and less well off get a return of monies for food on GST. Come on how much does it really cost them?
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1 & 2
We will all be old one day and lets see if you won’t complain when you retire!
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That will be a pound for a shower Sir!
No more than two showers a week Sir!
You can cook but that will be another £5 Sir
No kids Sir!
No pets Sir!
No girlfriends (or that will be a pound Sir!
Oooh suits me Sir!
Frankly, I do not believe there are poor pensioners in Jersey, the last generation who are now pensioners fleeced me dry.
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I just do not understand why there is GST on food, it is expensice enough and this si a basic staple to all!
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Sarah # 2. People of the older generation have usually been more careful than many people of your genration, who have been caught up in ‘buy now and pay later’ for often unnecessary luxuries.
One of the reasons we are in this finacial mess, is because so many people bought things on credit, when they weren’t in a position to pay back the installments. Several years ago we warned of the impending danger, yet people carried on with spend, spend, spend.
Sure I had a mortgage and loans, but these more often than not were for the a house purchase and home improvements. From what I have seen of the later generations, too many have wasted money on the high life and unnecessary items including expensive hi tech kit, fast cars, holidays and so on.
The finance industry have their part to play in the deficit as they didn’t thoroughly check the backgrounds of those applying for loans. Otherwise they gave credit limits that were too high.
I am retired and I expect that the annaul increases in my pension may be suspended – as George Osbourne said weare all in this together. I do think however, he was rather patronising as he is a millionaire.
Don’t pick on the elderly – you are heading in the same direction and hopefully will live until old age.
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7. I have retired.
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Never forget the pensioners of today worked hard all their lives 50/60 hours a week in some cases,with no paid holidays,like today.
Had no chance bettering themselves or going to college,that was just for the rich.
They made it easy for the people of today.
There was no handouts like today,every penny was earned through blood and sweat,so if you begrudge them a return on gst,shame on you!
I get a return on gst as pension is not enough to pay income tax,but I can assure you it doe,st even come near to reaching the extra gst imposed on food and services.
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Some people think that by taking GST of items such as food then those prices would go back to what they were before. That is not true.
When a shop sells food it also has to pay rental, electricity, insurance, accountants and many other expenses. They all add GST to their prices. They also have to pay the wholesale cost of the items that have previosuly had GST added and those other costs have been included at the previous stages. We were originally told that it would only be 3% and I did not believe it then.
When GST was about to be introduced I calculated that many prices would actually go up by 10% and not just the 3% that we had been told. In many cases I was right and in some it was even more. The only items that were actually increased by just 3% were those that had prices marked on them such as newspapers.
If GST was to be taken off food then the increase would be back to around 7% rather than zero. That is still a much higher price increase than many people can afford without having to cut down on some essentials.
Even without the GST most of our prices are higher than for the same items in the UK that include VAT at 17.5%. When it is increased to 5% you can imagine what will happen.
Maybe there will be some compensation for those on the lowest incomes and receiving benefits. Maybe the income tax threshold will rise. What will happen to those trapped between those limits?
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I think that we are missing the point. Rather than point fingers at each other\pensioners, how about taking a step back and looking at the cause of all this.
The States members’ policies have dictated this. It is them that need to be pilloried.
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One thing for sure – today’s pensioners are getting a much better deal that the next generation or the generation after that will.
In fact, many people are now making the case that the baby boomer generation – who are becoming pensioners now – were the luckiest generation of all time.
Today’s pensioners may think they have it hard. Truth is, they have had the best of it.
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No they are not hit hard. Their pensions are index linked many receive over £400 gst rebate. It is families that are hit hard with increased tax, social security parking etc. Pensioners get free transport including many getting free taxi allowance also despite owning their own vehicles. Also 10% off many shops.I am sick of working and all my money going to other people whilst I receive no direct benefit.
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teach them how to order online, like everyone else will be doing to avoid GST
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#10 It’s the ‘baby boomers’ who are generally know at pensionable age that actually created the buy it now pay for it later society that my generation has been left with!
As for Daphne Minihane, has no-one worked out that as Chairwoman for Age Concern it’s her job to speak out on behalf of the elderly, if she was Chairwoman for The Middle Classes then I’m sure she’d speak out on their behalf. You can’t berate someone just for doing their job!
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GST will effect everyone full stop can Jersey ever get their figures right as it seems to be mistake after mistake hence the increase in everything on this island, they are putting money into things that are not neccessary just now we are in a recession, they need to focus on the important things that the island requires not a face lift to the hospital or the avenue been dug up twice this year, can you tell us where the money came from to get all this done…..oh that’s right TAX PAYER…honestly I feel their are muppets running this Island…THINK SMARTER!!!!!
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UK-style exemptions. If we follow Mrs Minihane’s UK-style suggestion we might as well raise the GST to the 20% VAT rate that will start in January. What has got us into this financial dilemma is not only the millions wasted by States members on totally unnecessary schemes as the Steam Clock, the new Tourism office;5mil, the new town park;10mil, the cock up over financing the new incinerator;10mil, the empty buildings as JGC, St. Helier Boys, St Saviours Hospital, the paying of States members;2.5mil pa, taking the welfare responsibility from the parishes to introduce Income Relief;90mil pa, BUT the slavish copying of the ridiculous UK.
In the old fashioned Jersey way we should be innovative and lead from the front not follow like sheep.
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I think #8 possibly has a valid comment – the current generation of pensioners actually had it very easy during their working lives. Their houses quickly appreciated in value during the 60′s and 70′s erroding the proportion of their mortgage. Many of their wives could therefore afford to give up work and therefore stop paying tax and social security.
Yes #10 the current geneartion perhaps are not so carefull with money, but the vast majority of them work and pay into the system which funds your retirement. My wife and I could lead a simple life, one car, no holidays but the truth of the matter is that we both work hard and pay into the system and thus are entitled to a few treats.
Unfortunately this will require a greater workforce in the future to pay for our retirement, but that is how it goes. As someone elese has commneted recently, it was the generation that fought the war that awarded itself an unfunded pension, and thus future generations are picking up the tab. Unfortunately, promoting a healthier lifestyle is only making matters much worse !
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When the GST does eventually go up to 5%, there will be some that will add more that the extra 2% just like when GST was first introduced. GST doesn’t just hit the pensioners hard. It hits all those on lower incomes. My fantastic pay rise consisted of 0.45% this year. Should I be grateful that I even got that.
It seems that a lot of people are in a financial mess because of their own doing. Most people seem to think that they should be able to buy what they want whether they have the money or not. The more people buy things that they do not need it put a strain on raw materials and affects prices to the greedy and not so greedy consumer. This is a greedy society and people are all too happy to go along with it.
Things like “buy now, pay later” and “payday loans” make things worse. Businesses have to compete, but “buy now, pay later” is part of problem as well.
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Oh how great the internet is now, I will still keep recycling my pound in anywhere but Jersey!
I am simply cheesed off with been ripped off in just about every shop I go into in Jersey.
I am now bulk all buying my food, fresh produce as well saving me a fortune, if only I could buy my utilities from some one other than those in Jersey, may be the cartels to go will be Jersey Water & Jersey Electric
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PJ valid comments. I object to paying this regressive tax, it is plain wrong to penalise the poorer in society the most, whilst the top end don’t feel the pain. I think it is also damaging to the local economy.
It will also put paid to many local small to medium businesses who will become uneconomic to run, meaning more people out of work and an ever increasing welfare burden for the remainder to provide for. The internet will make sure of this. Customers over here are no longer captive to local businesses anymore as they were 20 years ago.
As per the companies you mention these are part privatised and therefore a percentage of your money needed to pay for these basic commodities is going into the pockets of the shareholders via their share dividends. Happy with this?
I would also bet that the dividends paid on their investments are more than the banks are paying in interest on your money.
As far as I am concerned these companies, as they are utilities, should be totally owned by the state.
As per the JEC why not look into the feasibility of cutting out the middleman and letting the French do the lot? If it were to be a cheaper option it would be daft not to consider it as a way to reduce costs for us.
As per the contentious pension issue this is pitting one generation against another, as the elderly expect their cut of the pie they were promised 40-50 years ago, and the younger ones who resent the older generation getting something they are unlikely to get.
I put the blame fairly and squarely on those who hatched this scheme of “you pay for me and someone else will pay for you” after the war. Great when there are more workers under you but when there are less people working to support the system for you it will not work, especially now people are living longer as well.
In my honest opinion this was total cobblers when it was thought up, but as the people in charge were the ones who would benefit, why worry, as they knew they would probably be dead before other people cottoned on to this slight of hand.
Each generation should be paying for their own retirement then they could only blame themselves if they didn’t get what they expected.
The first generation to get old age pensions were the luckiest as they never paid anything for them. Unfortunately due to their self interest, others are paying for this and will continue to do so until the lot collpases. Then there will be major social issues to address, as society tears itself apart.
Add on top of this capitalism which encourages greed and self service and you have an explosive cocktail. Greed is like a black hole it sucks everything into itself, and the biggest black hole wins as it sucks all the other blackholes into itself. This is society at present as far as I am concerned, and it is time for a change away from this destructive system which benefits the very few at the expense of the vast majority.
Why not share and have more?
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This is to those between post education age and pre-retirement age, but too young to have had parents that were here during the occupation years – listen up!
You’ve lived on want, want, want. Had it all given to you a plate, on demand, borrowed beyond your means and now feel cheated at having to pay you way! We all work hard but it is time for you to be extremely grateful for what you have. Many are not so lucky. Most over 50 year olds saved for essentials and then, if they were lucky had a few modest luxuries. A few pounds in the bank is not greed, but a sign of a careful lifestyle planned for our old age, and the future.
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(16)
IT is a fixed rate,no-body gets that amount,try cutting it by a quarter.
The only ones who do Qualify don,t pay I.Tax and don,t claim income support.
Truth is its the one parent families who have it all,some have never lifted a finger,and have no intention of ever working,thanks to our generous Guv who encourage them with housing,money,free this that and the other.
The only free transport I get is the bus and use it maybe once a year as it is useless unless you live in the country.
I stand by my comment,we made this island what it is today and i doubt we will ever get another generation work so hard and long as we did with very little pay until the seventies when more people were aware of a fairer wage and better working conditions.
Yeah we had a great rise this year £1.80 a week!
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cutting it by 3 quarters not a quarter meant to write.
Never mind Monty is organising a rally against this latest GST rise
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#6 Paul. “I thought the elderly and less well off get a return of monies for food on GST. Come on how much does it really cost them?”
Can you elaborate please? Do they keep their receipts? How else could it work fairly?
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#10 ‘It’s the ‘baby boomers’ who are generally know at pensionable age that actually created the buy it now pay for it later society that my generation has been left with!’
Not all of them, Leah. Admittedly it happened on their watch but many of them lived within their means and knew that what was going on was bad news. The innocents had no power against the manipulators who engineered everything in their own short term favour.
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This proposal should be accompanied by one to prohibit the charging of VAT by branches/franchises of UK stores.
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They can’t exempt food, petrol and food are about the only things you can’t buy on the internet. Food must provide the highest percentage of income from GST.
This will kill local businesses who are struggling already with internet purchases. Can’t say I pity them though, they have fleeced us for years before we had the net.
If the elderly have managed their finances responsibly, have bought their own homes and secured private pensions or good work pensions then they are probably better off than the average working person. They did not face the economic austerity we are currently dealing with, they enjoyed Jersey’s golden years.As for retirement, I fully expect the goalposts to keep moving away from my generation, retirement at 70 if we’re lucky.
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The key point, which nobody is mentioning, is that our pensioners get paid much more than in the UK and about £30 more than in Guernsey.
Are they rich? No.
Are they getting a better deal than their children will? Yes
Most (not all) will have bought houses in the 1950s and 60s, backed by a states loan, for a fraction of today’s value. Most will have had commercial opportunities that were unbelievable: any tradesman who had any brains in the 60s made a fortune.
Before giving any more support to the pensioners of today, we need to understand very clearly that we are robbing the poor(tomorrow’s pensioners) to pay the rich (today’s pensioners).
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Jonty 29 I agree with you. Branches/franchises from UK should only be allowed in the island if they took VAT of their prices.
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Yeah we know we get more than the UK,but what you left out is the cost of living is much lower in UK and they have free doctors,dentists etc and fuel allowance and many other benefits we don,t get.
As far as I,m concerned i,ve paid for my own pension,doe,st matter how they try and dress it up,we had no options.
So what if some bought their own house and saved a couple of bob to see them through their old age?
Got to be better than asking for income support surely.
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C.J.
Where does this £400 GST rebate come from?
I must be missing something.
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Regarding “old uns” comment at number ten.
“We were more carefull with our money” one word!
“TIGHT” believe me! i have family who are retired with hunderds of thousands in the bank,
yet they begrudge spending a penny on anything!
Their faces resemble horror masks at halloween created by their “non stop” face pulling and twisting everytime they spent a penny!
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No generation has ever worked harder than the generation which has just retired.
Where did the present supertructure come from?
Most of the lazy slobs roaming the streets now cannot walk, talk, or dress properly, they have never been subjected to any discipline and are virtually unemployable, they think the world owes them a living and reek of attitude.
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If you are on a low fixed income here…you are like a tethered goat waiting to be slaughtered…you can’t go out and find a part time job may be unwel and miserable,afraid to incur heating costs…is this what they worked a lifetime for….shameless.
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#28 Very true Rozel, my parents are from that generation and did live within their means, shame not all did (double that sentiment for governments!)
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MLP get used to it the best years are behind us. It is downhill now with no bottom in sight. It wouldn’t surprise me if retirement became the option of the rich only before too long.
Mind you they’ve also got the option of whether to bother working or not as well. When you can jet around the world at a whim enjoying yourself who needs work?
However you’ve got to have many others slaving away for a few pounds to make a few rich and to pay the taxes you know!
donald the key point is it is becoming very difficult to live over here unless you are a rich person, or someone on welfare. The rest are getting squeezed unfairly. Time for those with the broadest shoulders to take the strain me thinks.
Charging VAT is a blatent rip off as far as I am concerned and the government needs to get off its **** and sort it out. If this were to happen GST could go up to @15% without costing a penny extra in taxes.
What commercial oppotunities were available then that were so better than now?
The reason why things are going down hill is down to greed.
JJ Fairlight it was for this reason that Jersey was run in budget in temps passe not like now.
As 10 said we will all end up there (if we are lucky enough not to be stressed to death at work before hand!)
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#37 I think you mean the generation before that one? My gran’s generation undoubtedly had it harder and had to work harder than my parents (i.e. the generation that has just retired).
Needless to say our generation may not ever have to work in a way that you consider as hard but we will undoubtedly be working longer hours and for more years than any that went before us. We will also probably be less happy in our jobs as they will be far less secure (no matter how well we do them). That will take its toll on our physical and mental wellbeing as rest is a human necessity.
I’ve done 100+ hour weeks, and I learned the hard way that long-term it is just not beneficial to work like that, however, once I finish my current studies I may have no option but to return to very long weeks given how Governments are continually screwing everything up. If they persist with pushing us to this type of living then the NHS will not cope with the physical and mental ailments that ensue, the welfare system won’t either.
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Leah at # 18 “You can’t berate someone just for doing their job!”
Fair comment & point taken. I apologise. But would it perhaps be an idea for Daphne Minihaine to concenetrate her efforts on the elderly that are actually living in relative poverty, rather than making sweeping statements which imply all pensioners are hard-up? There are, after all, plenty of millionaire retirees living here.
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Yes GST should be removed from essentials, BUT this has a cost for business in implementing the necessary systems to distinguish one type of product from another – easy enough for large retailers, smaller shops may suffer disproportionately. This will feed through to the price you pay.
Shops should also be made to display GST inclusive prices, I can’t stand this ridiculous system of displaying one price and being charged 3% more at the till. It must confuse tourists who aren’t used to it.
And will people stop harping on about local shops charging VAT. They don’t charge VAT, they charge a price which is the same as a UK equivalent who has to pay VAT out of their price. None of the cash you hand over locally goes to HMR&C.
At the end of the day a shop is entitled to ask you to pay anything they like, whether or not you accept their “invitation to treat” is up to you. If you don’t like it, offer them a different price (which you are quite entitled to do be it a one man band or e.g. Checkers) or go buy elsewhere.
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#42 Tobias, no worries, it wasn’t meant to be as ‘telling off’ as it probably red
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Adrian @ 40, you seem to think that wealthy people don’t also “slave away” for their money. Obviously some are lucky, but others work extremely hard and create jobs for others.
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I think people should stop debating the rights and wrong of this and get to the point. The point being Ozouf, his financial mismanagement over the last five years. coupled with Le Sueur’s sear incompetence is the reason behind all of this mess. Just vote them out when you get a chance.
You vote does make a difference, register and please use it.
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Bean Bag# 37
Truest statement on here. Well said
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#45 Some of the well-off on here clearly don’t realise that many of the poor work extremely hard and long hours, so Adrian may just be responding to that. Some of the most important jobs have poor pay relative to those on the island that pay well. That some rich people create jobs is great as long as they treat their staff reasonably, not all do.
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HA HA
After advising a certain retailer,it would be advantageous to bring in UK bread some weeks ago,he has taken my advice and is ready to sell it on Monday.
No doubt noses will be out of joint.
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