Time to stub it out!
Monday 25th October 2010, 3:00PM BST.
If the latest tobacco strategy is accepted by the States, rows of cigarette packets on display in shops will become a thing of the past in Jersey
SMOKING in cars and public spaces could be banned under the latest ministerial plans to encourage people to stop smoking.
Weeks after the release of figures showing that rates of lung cancer in Jersey are nearly 30 per cent higher than the south-west of England, the Health Department has released the Tobacco Control Strategy 2010-2015.
The strategy, already endorsed by the Council of Ministers including Health Minister Anne Pryke, recommends banning tobacco advertising and display in shops, and banning cigarette vending machines altogether.
It also proposes banning cigarettes from view in Jersey shops and pubs, increasing the number of smoke-free homes in which babies live, and a new crackdown on underage smoking.
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I think the answer is to sell fireproof cigs, you’d still get all the revenue but they couldn’t ignite,therefore no danger.
Beer without alcohol would also help although Carling have been selling this for years.
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Yet they also now want to charge people for trying to give up. Happy to take the vast amounts of tax off smokers for smoking but user pays to quit. What kind of message is that to give out?
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Great idea!!!! A number of countries already do this. BEfore anyone get’s on their high horse and whinge abotu infringing on a persons choice – that it only affects them that is pure rubbish.
Smoking shoudl be banned, and anyone abusing their helth through alcohol / smoking etc., should not be given medical attention unless they have private health insurance,m and therefore pay for it themselves.
I am sick of my taxes going to people who clearly waste money.
The Zero-Tolerance policy is a very good policy, and it is only a matter of time.
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Human rights anyone? If its your car its your property?
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Not quite sure what ‘increasing the number of smoke-free homes in which babies live’ means but, is it any surprise that, if you stop people smoking in public places, they will smoke in their homes instead?
Here’s an idea. Have designated places where over-18s can meet and smoke, if they so wish. These places could also serve alcohol and, because they are open to adult members of the public, could be called ‘public houses’.
There would be no obligation for anyone to go the these ‘pubs’ and, because they would only be open to adults, children would be spared the (supposed) dangers of passive smoking.
But giving adults the choice of how to live their own lives is, of course, not what our States is about. I imagine the concept that ‘if it not necessary to legislate, it is necessary not to legislate’ is beyond the comprehension of most of them.
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Excellant news!
As a non smoker I find people smoking in the street and other most offensive. If people want to smoke they can do so in their own homes and not around the rest of us.
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As usual coming at the problem in entirely the wrong way….how many of those making these….I hesitate to call them decisions are actually people who have succesfully quit themselves…..resistance is bound to be met ,folks will say it’s my car and I’ll do what I like in it…they can’t /don’t police mobile phone users…are we now going to ask the cops to stop someone from having a fag in their car…..So far wide of the mark as to be deeply dismaying ..yet again…please someone disband these groups of numpties who squander our dosh on daft ideas.
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O.K. Let’s move to Russia
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That sounds a like a good step in the right direction. It was a great improvement to life in Jersey when it was banned in places of work and I can now safely eat in any restaurant.
The ultimate answer must be to completely ban the manufacture, sale and use of any tobacco product here that can be ignited. I have to put it that way as I suspect that some chemicals could be extracted from the plants for genuine medical purposes.
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I’m a non smoker but telling people what they can do in their own homes is a step too far. Talk about the Nanny state
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…and summary execution for any parent/guardian smoking in the car with their children. Perhaps a little harsh but you get the picture….
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start with smoking in the street& stop all these office/shop workers & pub goers dumping their “dogends” all over the streets,some not even stubbing them out therefore endngering children with summer footwear on.
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I must say that I was surprised to read that use of a ban can be seen as a method of “encouraging” us not to smoke – I would generally consider encouragement to be in situations whereby we still had a free choice rather than being given an ever increasing list of places where we’re not allowed to do so. I’m a smoker and am more than happy with the pubs & clubs situation, its more pleasant for all and does help me smoke less while I’m out …BUT…I think that the idea of banning smoking in open public places and especially user’s own cars is absolutely ridiculous!!! compounded further by suiggesting hiding them from any potentail buyers and getting ridding of vending machines…..if this is the route to go do down then why not just ban tobacco entirely?…..Ah, yes…..revenue! Happy to tax us on it but then impose martial law on us and tell us that we shouldn’t be smoking…..absolute jokers, sure the sayin is something about having your cake and eating it…
What’s next? No smoking in your own home?
Pegh!!!
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Realtruthseeker – Hope down off your own high horse before you start trying to get ppl off of their’s…
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I completely agree that smoking should be banned in all public spaces, this is what should have happened instead of banning it in pubs and clubs.
Not sure about banning smoking in cars as long as there are no children on board whats the problem.
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@Anon No.22
Where in the article does it say that they want to ban people smoking “in their own homes”?
Once again you seemed to have misunderstood the whole article.
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truthseeker: you are hilarious. It must be so sad and negaitve living in your house. Any decision, sensible or otherwise put forward by the States you jump on and criticise negatively… whinging pom comes to mind big time.
I have criticised and praised States decisions, depending on whether they are smart or not. You take the standard whing and complain without facts or sound points. It is just a rant for rant’s sake.
See my point re: this debate – you might learn how best to soudn out an agrument, rather than shooting from the hip.
Happy to meet up if you want to learn something.
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the nanny state again, the space in my car belongs to me , and no one else .
hi , my names small money and i am a nicotene addict.
seen my lighter anywhere ?
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OK, so as well as trying to catch people driving and using their phones (which the police are not doing very well) they will also have to look out and catch driving smokers. There is no point in bringing in law which cannot be effectively policed! I would rather be able to walk around St Helier safely and park my car knowing that it will not be a charred mass next day!
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#3 Real Truthseeker. Surely smokers save us money. They pay a fortune over the years in duty and tax and, although attempting to treat their final illness can be costly, their dying early saves a fortune in pension payments and must be cheaper than the medical costs of looking after those selfish enough to live into their nineties.
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Talk of high horse’s? Hardly call standing up for your own basic human righta a high horse.
This idea, is really up there…even for the states.
Sell us tobacco, tax us on it, then hide it from us, tell us we shouldn’t do it and then ban us from doing so?
words fail!
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Real truthseeker – Have you wondered just how much your taxes would be going up by if we all stopped smoking and the tax generated form sale stopped coming in?….let me guess!
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I think they should ban it altogether!! Then all the non smokers will be punished by the increase in tax somewhere else, to cover up the shortfall.
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Just double the price of the the cigarettes, i am not going into details of all the ins and outs unless asked but the extra tax would be great for the states, the best thing would be for it to be uninvented but as i havent completed my time machine we will have to leave that for now.
Less people will smoke, less people will start smoking, those that want to carry on would smoke less, there will be more tax in the pot, less people in hospital etc.
The above is the answer, if the number of smokers is not halved in 3 years after doubling the price then double it again.
It can be banned it in cars and on the streets but it wont really stop people only stop where people smoke.
PS i smoke 20 a day and no i couldnt afford to pay double and i would hate having to pay that much but after a couple of years of being healthier i think i would be grateful.
PPS obviously the duty free situation would have to be looked at.
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Nanny state
Thats what jersey is becoming to be the most hated place on earth to live ripped off all the time and now they want to tell us what to do in homes we pay huge amounts of rent to live in.
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if they manage to stop everyone from smoking where is the vast amount of money that the states of Jersey get from duty on tobacco gonna come from they’re making the hole bigger and bigger and joe public is gonna have to fill it yes thats all you non-smokers out there
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This is crazy. Either ban it altogether, or leave it alone.
Honestly I wonder how on earth Jersey hasn’t collapsed under this government. Stopping people smoking in their cars?
@ no.6
“I find people smoking in the street most offensive” Seriously? You moaned people were smoking in pubs, so they moved them outside, now your moaning that their outside?
@12
Can I ask how many children are injured by a lit ciggy get wedged in their flip flops?
Maybe we should ban the flip flops? Health and safety n all that.
And the major point here, banning smoking in cars and public places effectively means you can only smoke in 1 place, at home. So how is this making it better for children? Surely mum or dad having a fag outside is better then inside?
O..wait..this is Jersey, we do things backwards here.
Wait for the tax rises to make up the lost revenue
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I am a smoker, & I have cut down in the attempt to give up eventually.
But I am not a drinker in any way, so are they going to do the same with Alcohol, or do i have to put up with the VIOLENCE, ASSAULTS & FOUL LANGUAGE they put onto our streets.
Yes I agree that ciggie butts look awful scattered on streets, but so does the sick, urine etc!!! that I have to walk through, but nobody moans about that.
If they had more bins around for ciggies & food packing it would be a lot better.
I pay my taxes & have done for over 50 years, so who can say I am not entitled to care, but I don’t like having to pay my tax, to care for all the Alcoholics or the amount of Drunk people admitted every weekend, so why are they so different to smokers, but yet nobody moans about them wasting our taxes.
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Here we go again, loss of rights for the dirty smoker. Lets just face a few facts here about smoking. Policing of our streets….. at what cost is the Policing of our streets due to smoking? Did that fight start because they both had 10 lagers or 10 fags ? How many marrages have been broken up due to smoking? But how many have broken up due to booze ? Would there be such a need for refuges and homes for the homeless if nobody drank. The 2 most watched TV programs in britain are based around Pubs, and yet we see them boozing away ! Booze is the result of a great deal of crime in the island, that coupled with drugs I am sure costs the tax payer far far more to police than smoking. The same can be said in the medical world too. So then, less people buy ciggies and the taxed gained from them will be lost. Lets look forward to another increase in GST to compensate. When smokers visit my home they are respectful and automatically smoke in my garden. Its my garden i have the choice. But what about in their cars? surely that is also thier own right too !
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if a TRUE population figure was used in this survey lung cancer rates would have never have been as much as 30 percent higher…….
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Please let me know when this gets passed, im going down to the weighbridge and have such a laugh watching the police trying to enforce this haha.
What a joke!
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What a good idea, particularly stopping people smoking and driving. Its simply not safe. Concentrating on lighting up instead of observing the road, and then the risk of dropping it and again taking your eyes off the road in order to prevent setting your seat / leg on fire.
And yes, a car radio is also a risk, but far less of one, and far less likely to cause a fire!
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Nanny state interferring again….how will it be policed without any further cost to the taxpayer!
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Why don,t they just ban smoking and stop selling them altogether?
Simples,too many will lose their lucrative income from the selling of patches etc.
The likes of ASH heavily funded by the tax-payer,the drugs companies the WHO,but to name a few would lose out big time if it was made illegal.
They don,t really want folk to stop smoking,just to keep buying the patches to keep them in a job for life.
Apart from a handful of well-paid and highly vocal zealots who really cares ? or believes this hype.
It,s about as credible as the non-event swine flu.
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moral panic nonsense imo. ridiculous to ban smoking outside (public places). you might not want to breathe 2nd hand ciggy smoke, but do you enjoy breathing in vehicle exhausts and dioxins from bellozane? what about toxic gases from carpets & electrical items? where’s the impetus to ban these?
let us have a fag in peace.
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I don’t smoke and of course believe public places would be better without smoke and particularly the litter left by butts; however, come on Ministers, at a time of raising Taxes due to ‘your’ shortfalls, haven’t you got something more important and efficient to spend your time on…..
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Went to the Zoo’s open day. Loads of people smoking. Can’t believe Durrell allow it.
Smoking should be banned in all places where the public go.
Let smokers kill themselves in their own homes.
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Excellent idea – this will reduce the amount of fag ends that are thrown on a daily basis on to pavements and roads then fall down drains and contribute to flooding which costs money.
As for the money in lost taxes – look at the impact on health and cleaning the streets, days taken off work through ill health, smoke breaks at work etc.
You should only be allwed to smoke in designated areas – Les Écréhous would be good.
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Get a grip people….it’s not as if they’re going to legalise cannabis for home use and ban cigarettes all together……anyone looking for a swap shop.
Encourage people to stop smoking by charging more…ha ha ha , they keep trying that one don’t they.
we are being manipulated and chastised ,and have been for many years now ,yet if we stand up and rebel, we’ll be the ones to pointed at for no self control.
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The good news is that the States clearly have plenty of money if they can pay the salary of whoever has the time to come up with this nonsense. Good news because I can immediately think of a salary cost that can easily be saved.
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Good points Brian and Jokerz… Would like to see the figures to make sure enough is raised to offset the cost. If so, then certainly, up to individual, except for where kids are in cars. Plenty of countries have such a law which is workable.
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Hi Jersey_Boy (no.27) John (no.6) here. Yes I moaned about it in resturants and pubs and yes I continue to ‘moan’ about it outside. I shall continue to do so while non-smokers are subjected to this filthy habit that affects the health of others.
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Just curious, so when they finally stop everyone from smoking and eventually drinking. Where is the extra revenue that these bring in going to come from?
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Ah yes the old tried and tested finger pointing is back on the agenda!! Of course it has to be the smoker who is to blame for all the cancer in the world!
I wonder how many of the righteous voices on here who feel happy to shout their offence at the person with a cigarette drive around in a car or ride a motorbike??? Maybe they dont want to think about the damage THEY cause to everyones health as they drive around??
Petrol and diesel are known carcinogens (polycyclic hydrocarbons cause lung cancer, benzene causes leukaemia) and are undoubtedly responsible for many of the first-hand and second-hand lung cancer cases being targetted in this new strategy but of course no-one, especially our politicians and the oh-so-often vocal opponents of smoking, want to confront that one …. and so would have to confront the lucrative and powerful car and oil industries and also importantly have to look at themselves and the damage they cause as they swan about in their massive 4×4′s as their exhaust fumes are inhaled by all the kiddies walking home from school!!
Best be careful before casting the first stone as you may be just as, if not more, responsible than the guy walking down the street with a cigarette in their hand!!
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Its all well and good telling us where we can and cannot smoke but who is going to police this ridiculous idea?? People aren’t meant to use their mobile phones in their cars but they still do. People are meant to pick up their dogs poo but they don’t, they are also meant to have their dogs on leads at certain times but again they don’t. If they make these stupid rules they should at least enforce them. A few years back they spoke about anal sex being illegal, who the hell is going to police that idea?? Surely, what people do in their ‘own homes/cars’ is nobody else’s business. I realise that these examples aren’t damaging anyone’s health but this place is just getting more and more daft. Live and let live
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Total infringement of human rights! They tried this in the UK and failed however I’m guessing this ridiculous ruling will be passed here!
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Chris/Joerz – have your fag in peace – but please contribute about £50000 of your cash to supplement the treatment you will need for on or all of the following:
Stroke
Reduced vision
Mouth and throat cancer
Heart disease
Emphysema and bronchitis
Lung cancer
Stomach ulcers
Bladder cancer
Infertility
Peripheral vascular disease, which can lead to gangrene and amputation of limbs
I am all for freedom do behave as you please – but YOU should pay for your folly, not me.
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A dirty Smoker ???
yeah, yeah, yeah – up to you what you do – just make sure you pay an extra £50000 to the health service to pay for the inevitable disease you are going to contract…
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Street smoking:
Dog end throwing is not considered littering by those who do it, more of a basic human right (for very basic humans). Someone else can clear up. How dare you look at us like that when we toss our fag ends away so adroitly? What else are street cleaners for?
Outdoor smoking:
Pub gardens which used to be pleasant are now no longer an enjoyment for those who can’t abide the smell of fag smoke. Same goes for barbecues on the beach.
Smoking in cars:
I have quite often caught the honk of smoking coming into my car from one in front of me. The window is their ashtray (same practised flair as the street smokers’)and the road their bin. Most think nothing of throwing out the packaging as well. Don’t want it messing up their smoky cesspit of a car, do they?
These people are scum. One of you care to tell me why you aren’t? I don’t want an answer telling me that some other activity is as bad. It may well be so, but it doesn’t make smoking less objecionable.
If it wasn’t objectionable, huge numbers would still be smoking. One of the few good things about modern life is that an ever increasing number have realised that this is one of the most dumb @rsed things anyone can do with their body and their money and contrary to the message sent out in the 1950s it doesn’t make one attractive.
That’s my ‘high horse’ contribution. You will gather that I am an anti smoking zealot. That is because it impinges on my comfort and I positively hate it!
I think that Simon, #24 has one solution, except that they will simply demand a cost of living increase or quite possibly turn to crime to raise funds.
Education, with a bit of persuasion and convincing (anyone remember NCB at VCJ?) ought to work in most cases.
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When and only when the states of jersey buy me my vehicle pay my insurance and put petrol in my car will i cease to smoke in it. until that day they can keep their collective noses out of what i do in my vehicle.
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I,m going to stand outside the states building and if i see 1 politician smoking i,m going to smack them in the mouth
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So, when the police try to stop me enjoying a cigarette in my own property (my car) and they issue me with a penalty which I can’t pay – will I get to spend time in La Moye where I get 3 free cooked meals a day, central heating, electric, further education etc., at a cost to the tax payer?
Sounds like a plan!
Would solve quite a few problems for me too….
Shouldn’t the drug-takers get similar treatment too? – then add in a few alcoholics and we can turn La Moye into a great night club – all paid for.
Yahoo!
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SE and co. The amount of money collected in taxes from smokers and pensions not being payed out for the minority (yes minority) who die prematurely must surely dwarf the medical costs.
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Real Truthseeker
you should become a states member, reading your posts you are so out of touch, should do well!!!!
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Couldnt agree with you more C. le Verdict.
I think only “SCUM” smokes, and proceeds to toss it out of their car window.
I have always looked down at the “filth” or brown fingered,brown teethed lower classes that smoke.
Then again its usually the same “SCUM” that congregate in a group on the pavement outside the pub with their council house looks and track suit tops and filthy jeans.
“Yes” i have the right to make such judgements when classy ladies have to walk on to the road into the path of an oncoming car, because these “disgusting dirty men”
block the pavement passing “cheap”remarks to the female poulation as they pass.
Let me tell you something scumbags!
Nobody wants to kiss your fag,beer breath!!!
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regarding our states members i dont often either 1. feel sorry for them or 2. agree with them.
but on smoking, they have a hard job. it is a totally abhorrent self-destructive unecessary habit with no merit whatsoever [and any dolt who claims it relaxes them etc - well how did you cope before you smoked?]. realising that our community suffers ridiculous amounts of death/disease, they do really need to do something.
frankly a total ban would seem to be the right thing to do, but from reading this thread, the backlash would not be worth the fight, and at least they realise that nominally, we are a democracy, and [however daft some may be] freedoms ought to be preserved.
but all measures aimed at terminating this foul habit ought to be embraced – for all our sakes – you dont have to be a genius to work out that smoking is a net LOSS to an economy [premature death & loss of productivity. increased health care etc] – heres a link if you dare http://www.smokingcosts.org/report_conclusions.html
the bit that shows each smoker who quits can save us £1500 is quite telling.
so stop whining, and more importantly, stop smoking
ps and yes, there should also be a strategy for dealing with excessive boozing – its pretty much the same story
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c le verdic,
i have often caught the whiff of exhaust fumes from your car . you should be targeting cars not smokers , how many toxic gases come from car exhausts just look at the walls in the tunnel.
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Probably the best list of comments I have ever read. Simply genious. In the above, Smoking and smokers have been blamed for, quite frankly, some seriously eye opening stuff. The top ones being -
Burning the feet of children wearing summer footwear
Flooding
And at number 1! – Spontanious car combustion!
Something from me – to you
@46 – WE DO! TAX! THINK!
@47 – You are either the perfect human being or (more likely) a generally an angry person who cannot tolorate everyone else being ever so slightly happier than you. If smoking really upsets you that much I honestly think you should speak to someone about it. Nothing is that bad is it, Champ?
I cant blame you all for hating the idea of smoking. It is bad for us after all. But the older generations have had so much anti-smoking propaganda and false information crammed down them, they dont know any better. They think if they smell a fag on the breeze they have cancer instantly. In actual fact, standing at a petrol station will do more harm. Being at a BBQ or a bon-fire are much more harmful than some second had smoke. Fact
And the ban on smoking in cars? try and stop me
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47 C Le verdic – not sure how much is tongue in cheek but if serious I agree wholeheartedly. Why do smokers dispose of their rubbish so irresponsibly. You don’t see people throwing Coke cans or crisp packets out of car windows, personally I think it’s a desire to disassociate as quickly as possible with their addiction.
Smoking should be banned everywhere except in the addicts home, I’m tired of walking down the street getting mouthfulls of smoke from the addict in front of me furiously trying to finish his “fix” before arriving at his destination. Sitting outside a pub on a fine summers day is impossible, the smokers have taken over the beer gardens, although I do enjoy seeing them huddle together midwinter in the pi**ing rain.
The amount of smokers I see smoking in works vehicles is amazing, this is punishable by a £5000 fine to both the smoker and the employer, why is this not policed?
Some progress has been made, there was a time when a smoker would look at you with contempt if you dared suggest he wait until you’ve finished eating before igniting his drug.
Ban them all from public places and double the price of the drug.
49 Mick – I,m going to stand outside the states building and if i see 1 politician smoking i,m going to smack them in the mouth
Any chance you can smack em anyway, smoking or not.
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Land of Freedom of choice and Democracy…….what on earth is happening in the Island I love so much………it is being totally spoiled by buracratic *********…….25% of the population smoke, will the other 75% be happy to make up the short fall in the lack of tax revenue being lost? Then what will the ‘dictators’ come up with next…….shut all the pubs and ban alcohol???
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Anon (10) and others. I’m a non smoker but telling people what they can do in their own homes is a step too far. Talk about the Nanny state
The key flaw in this proposal is the supplementation of the word ‘education’ with the word ‘CONTROL’. In her naive way Anne Pryke is glamorising the infernal weed.
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As a non smoker I fully support people’s right to smoke outdoors. Jersey is not a dictatorship just yet and if the states think they had a big response to the proposed increase to school fees -I am sure they can multiply this many many times if they try to ban outdoor smoking and how they would try to police such a ban would be interesting. It is a ludicrous suggestion. Most people smoke out of habit – not because they want to, this outlet helps them cope with their life and relaxes them – it is their choice. The people complaining are probably the very people who will not walk 100 yards when they can take their car. I find exhaust fumes much more intrusive and offensive than tobacco fumes. Such a ban would cause a huge public protest and I like many non smokers would support freedom of choice. People have been smoking for hundreds of years – and many many of these people live to a very old age. Leave the smokers in peace.
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# 44
ah, some perspective by another!
#47
Indeed I pay enough already to cover my health costs through SS, income tax & tax on fags. Fag revenue is above the cost to patch us up i believe.
What would happen if there’s no smoking but still lung cancer from other pollutants, more potent?
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Smoking is completely un-natural.
I find it very strange that a person can legally do something so un-natural and offensive in the street when other things which are very natural, in fact vital for the procreation of humankind, are banned. I know what I would rather see in public.
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No chance! There is no way that some jumped up politician is going to tell me what I can and cant do in my own home. When they contribute to paying part of mortgage then I might consider them having a say.
Also, non smokers be careful for what you wish for. If all the smokers in Jersey were to give up tomorrow, taxes would have to rise to cover the shortfall of no duty being paid. therefore, the smokers who have just given up would be better off with the savings they made by quitting, and the namby pamby non smokers would be the ones out of pocket. Who would be the ones whinging then? I rest my case.
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RE: GTR Such a shame that you look down on people this way. Everyone deserves respect, a smoker is no different.
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Are there any smokers on here who can truthfully say they are glad they started smoking?
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As regular holiday visitors to your lovely Island, and smokers banning smoking in ones private vechiles seems a Draconian, however if children are in the car common sense prevails and one does not smoke.
Tobbaco sales produce goverment revenue, over the years we have seen many changes in Jersey and none for the best. Do not turn into a Nanny State.
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Class 65.
Harvesters toil under the sun to provide the best tabacco leaves…which are then hung and dried before being shredded and put into enormous machines.
Groups of operators ensure these machines drop the exact amount of shredded tobacco onto millions of tiny strips of wafer-thin paper…which are then rolled and sealed into standardized cigarettes.
Other groups of operators ensure the cigarettes move safely along into another machine…which drops them, in groups of twenty, into specially manufactured packets.
Yet another group of operators ensure the packets are wrapped in protective film before being packed into sticks…which are then placed into cartons and despatched for sales.
And then, after all that work, what do ungrateful consumers do?
Let me tell you, they buy them…and set fire to them…and breathe in the smoke!
Now where is the sense in that?
Could it be that smokers (at risk to their own health) are keeping a billion dollar industry alive and keeping thousands of people in work?
P.S. I am a non-smoker.
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55.GTR – I find your narrow minded views incredible. I have worked with many smokers (in the finance industry) for many of years – none of whom have brown fingers or teeth so your generlisations are ridiculous and offensive in the extreme (but maybe that is what you intended). From your bitter condemnation of innocent people I can only assume you are most definitely not a ‘classy lady’ and if men are making ‘cheap remarks’ to you then maybe this says more about your dress sense than whether or not they are smokers. From the sound of you it would take a very brave or maybe even a mad man to want to kiss you!!!
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It’ll be interesting to see if Len never without a fag in his hand Norman votes for this……What is disturbing about this is the lack of vision and the trying to see just how far they can push the public testing…..
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Tourism is a joke in this island, and with the forthcoming rise in G.S.T. coupled with all the new regulations planned, no one will consider coming to Jersey for a holiday unless it is to visit a relative or friend,it is mainly that reason that accounts for the few visitors we do get.
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Some of these coments are a complete Joke. Whats wrong with some of you sad sad people. Smokers aint rapists!
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#57 Noah:
‘I have often caught the whiff of exhaust fumes from your car’
Oh yeah? I don’t think it would be that often as it is in England most of the time. The fumes would be different, however as I run it on cooking oil which among other benefits has cleaner emissions as measured in the MoT test.
In case you didn’t read it the first time, I wrote:
‘I don’t want an answer telling me that some other activity is as bad. It may well be so, but it doesn’t make smoking less objecionable.’
I didn’t notice you taking issue with smoking being a dumb @rsed activity?
#38, Please have more respect for the Écréhous!
#51, mick
‘I,m going to stand outside the states building and if i see 1 politician smoking i,m going to smack them in the mouth’
Not the same Mick, presumably, as the teacher!
#58, Kage. If I smell fag smoke in the breeze it’s the smell that bothers me, not the cancer risk. I don’t get that near!
#59, Mulvie, I could have written that myself. Except the last bit. I’d just give them an ear bashing!
So where is the flood of replies extolling smoking, then. Waiting with non smokers breath!
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Agree with the posts by C Le Verdic (49) and GTR (55) with the sentiments that only the low-calibre people smoke (or ‘scum’ as they were referred to).
Yes that may sound at trifle harsh at first, but consider that they have no qualms about poisoning others with their habit, and as pointed out above will happily use the street as their ashtray. Scum, indeed.
I would point out that smoking is a filthy, stupid habit – and therefore, those that choose to partake of it are filthy, stupid people, end of.
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As a smoker this seems like one of the things that the states bring up to distract us from issues that are arising e.g 5% GST, they say one thing let us argue among ourselves then walk away scott free with a new law and a lot of confused people stumbling about.
I really don’t care that I smoke or your opinions on me smoking, espicially some of the people here who seem like they need to relax a bit and have a calm civilised discussion rather than being such generally annoying people. its my belief (and im almost sure of this) that everything is bad for you anyway, plus loads of stuff gives you cancer im just ahead of the curve.
okay dokay
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The States run a FREE stop smoking service which supplies a choice of 4 different aids, including prescriptions for Champix, patches and inhalators. There are weekly meeting of 15 minutes to give you increased support and your carbon monoxide levels is monitored to show the improvement being made. The centres are in various locations around the island and the staff are extremely helpful and knowledgable…. Each cigarette contains 2000 toxins, including arsenic…. on this issue the state are doing the right thing and this service is excellent…. put Help2Quit Jersey into Google for more information
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here we go again fine stop smoking in pubs and clubs and cafes and resaruants as people wanted to go out and breath fresh air, So all smokers sent outside to smoke thats fine, But non smokers wanted the inside all winter now they want all outside as well, but the is no way on this earth that i will not smoke in my car MY CAR MY SPACE, UNLESS THERE ARE CHILDREN IN IT or someone who doesnt smoke
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Kez you are my Hero.
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“The States run a FREE stop smoking service”
Minor correction to be enforced shortly…
“The States run a ‘USERS PAYS’ stop smoking service”
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Jamie, I am on the service at the moment and do not pay a penny, it is one of the positive aspects at the moment, I was given a voucher for a GP appointment and Prescription… it is FREE
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Just a thought: I wonder what percentage of inmates at Le Moye prison are smokers.
Considering that smoking is an anti-social habit, it follows that people who smoke are generally anti-social people. Whilst smoking itself will not land you in jail (yet) it stands to reason that these anti-social people will be predisposed to other forms of anti-social behaviour such as illegal drug use or violence (a fine example can be seen by the smoker “Mick” who proudly claims he will punch a States member)
A further thought: I wonder what proportion of illegal drug users are non-smokers?! Not many I expect, as drug use and smoking go hand-in-hand.
In fact, I would not be at all surprised if 80%+ of La Moye residents are smokers.
Perhaps it’s time the Police were given greater powers to be able to stop and search anyone who is seen smoking. That way, we’d soon get the upper hand on crime!
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I am using the service as we speak and it is Free….
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Well, reading through some of the comments, it appears that we should all be lemmings, living a high almighty life, sharing, loving and respecting one God. Living healthly, jogging to work, eating lentils and drinking filtered water. How joyous, what fun……. GET A GRIP. We are all different, that’s what makes life interesting…….and we all have choices. We need not agree on everything, but can surely tolerate things, no? Is it such a hardship to non smokers if I smoke in my 2 seater car, which will never have a child in it? How often do you get ‘covered’ in smoke from the car up ahead? We live in a Democratic society, lets strive to keep it that way! Just because something annoys me, I don’t feel the need to have it banned, especially when there is no direct impact to my health. Smoking obviously annoys some people, but the argument from them is not on health grounds, it is because it annoys them???? On that basis, ban all children from Restaurants and Flights…….they annoy me and probabl;y effect my health with the smells and noise polution
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Oh, Tobias, what a loverly chap you sound, just from reading your comments, I can see a caring, sociable, fun loving human with such tolerance for others. I hope there are more like you! Maybe you could identify yourself and others with simular views so that we know who to look up to? Maybe a Dark suit…..oh and some Dark boots…..maybe a dark cap….oh, oh, and a Symbol, maybe worn on the arm. Hold on, sounds like Jersey in the early 40′s!
From reading your’s and other’s comments, I truly feel for you…..oh, and that’s comming from a scum. Imagine, a Scum feeling sorry for you……lifes full of suprises eh!
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Do 1 Tobias.
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Stick GST up to 40% on cigarettes. The extra to go to the hospital budget to pay for the fag-heads’ treatment.
While on the subject, eating healthy should be made cheaper.
Take GST off fresh fruit, vegatables and fish and put it up to 10% on processed and fast food. That should be enough to cover the lost tax on healthy food and give some extra to the hospital for the diseases brought on by the fatties eating cr@p food.
Finally, anyone treated at A&E for injuries sustained in a drunken brawl should be handed a bill as they leave the hospital.
User Pays for the consequences I say.
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“I am using the service as we speak and it is Free….”
I hope you give up soon.
Under the budget proposals it will cost you money next year.
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Does anyone knows how much obesity related diseases cost the island?
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Yes I’m a smoker and I truly prefer not being able to smoke in Public Buildings but I can’t believe the comments on this site, the rudeness and abusive behaviour being thrown towards smokers. Okay you don’t smoke but unless you are going to wrap yourself up in cotton wool and stay in the comfort of your own home you are going to have to brave the big bad world which at times isn’t pleasant and yes at times is polluted, by car fumes, airplane fumes, toxins etc… but you do have a choice if you see smokers standing outside a public house, sitting on a bench in the park, sunbathing on the beach, your choice would be to move, why should I? I hear you cry. You don’t but like all things in life if you don’t like something do something about it and stop moaning and being horrible to others.
And to those who are trying to stereotype smokers as being SCUM, Drug Addicts etc… there are a lot of high class, important and classy people who do smoke.
If the states really want to clean up the streets, try be sorting out the children with problems we having roaming them causing trouble, and sort out the alcohol problem you are bestowing onto us by bringing in tougher laws to publicans’ for letting these people get intoxicated.
You didn’t hear us moaning about the smoking ban, we accepted it. We are not inflicting this onto you unless you CHOOSE to. I have non smoking friends and I don’t smoke near them even when I’m in my own car, my own house or my own garden.
Can’t believe how many horrible, nasty people there are on here, you know who you are, I feel sorry for you that you are that bitter and twisted I really do.
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Smoking is an addiction so is Alcohol & drugs, yet most smokers manage to hold down a full time job & pay their taxes & Social Security unlike most alocholics & drug addicts. Not once does anyone moan about what us taxpayers, smokers & non smokers have to pay for keeping an alcoholic in beer & shelter & a drug addict in Methadone & the latest trainers & mobile phones when they will not fund a Cancer patient a drug to prolong their life. Smoking in Cars should be banned if you have passengers, but if your on your own then go ahead. Wake up people of Jersey & realise how big a drug & alcohol problem we have, but then again they have Human Rights unlike the rest of us!!!
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Even the Nazis didn’t try to ban smoking. Bring ‘em back!!!!!!!!!!!!
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To SBSY @ 70!
How presumptions to assume im a woman,which im not
which proves its you that small minded & sexist.
Since when did working in the finance industry qualify you as “class”???
If you smoke you stink,a bit like your letter of mass generalisation.
Further more being a fella,i dress appropriately
and if a man kissed me including yourself he would be experiencing the good taste of hospital food for six months!
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69 Sue
That could be the case…but at what cost to the environment and its wildlife. I’m sure these huge tobacco companies do not harvest the tobacco leaves found naturally…do you?
64 Abazan
They call that voyeurism
46 Natasha
“Total infringement of human rights”…grow up. Where does it say that every person has the right to pollute not only their lungs but anyone else’s in close proximity?
17 Real Truthseeker
“See my point re: this debate – you might learn how best to soudn out an agrument, rather than shooting from the hip.”
Who is he supposed to learn from? Not you that’s for sure! You have done nothing but insult and condescend your potential voters on these forums. Good thing is all we have to do is listen to some “whinging” kiwi (or aussi incogito) accent and we know not to vote for them! A good Facebook page may help with that one
3 Real Truthseeker…(again)
“I am sick of my taxes going to people who clearly waste money.”
If you are talking about our incompetent politicians then I fully agree…but if you are referring to smokers….get a grip!
On another note I am quite curious to know what “essential employment” has drawn you to our shores so far away from your own homeland and why it is you feel the need to impose your “wordly” beliefs on a distant community?
Am I missing something though, surely the ban on smoking in cars will be whilst driving?? If so, this makes perfect sense because it is dangerous….especially if a burning ember were to drop in someones lap! If not, it is a ridiculous idea!
I am a non-smoker but I also believe people should be allowed to smoke if they want to…..just somewhere private…..or in specialised clubs/venues. Why hasn’t someone taken up the opportunity to open a smokers only paradise (or is that only allowed in the States Chambers)….could be a nice earner?!
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Many years ago people would pay to see the “lunatics” in an asylum and witness their antics. May I suggest we advertise the States chamber and various departments in the same way. This would encourage tourism and possibly rival Disneyland as the premier provider of La La land entertainment.
It beggars belief that we the people of Jersey pay good money to allow these clowns to be employed in jobs which can affect our lives. I hear more sense from my 10 year old son on a far more regular basis. People of Jersey can I suggest that come the next round of voting we all vote for “None of the above”.
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Important and classy people who smoke???
Are you “serious”?? Who in their right mind makes statements like that!
Anyone who goes around thinking their “important” needs mental help,and anyone with brown teeth and fag breath is a lot of things,but “important” isnt one of them.
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Tobias:
‘Agree with the posts by C Le Verdic (49) and GTR (55) with the sentiments that only the low-calibre people smoke’
I didn’t quite say that Tobias.
There is undoubtedly some high calibre as well!
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#79
‘Kez you are my Hero.’
Could this be the Kez from outside Woolworths?
Pretty sure he smoked.
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#76 JP Special
Good point about distracting us from the real issues we are facing.A large number of postings on this site degenerate into little more than venting of spleen so usually I don`t bother to get involved as there is no point.
However a short time ago I looked at the States statistics for duty on tobacco products. Unfortunately I have mislaid the piece of paper I worked it out on. I do recall that in 2009 the duty was in excess of £13Million. This figure did not include GST as it could not be calculated by simply adding 3% to the total duty figure, as this would not take into account the non duty element.
If you were however to use a figure of approx £13.5Million as total States revenue then I believe it would not be far from the mark.
Also a figure of 63% was used as the amount of tax (in one form or another) that is levied on a packet of cigarettes.
With the proposed duty and GST increases this figure is likely to end up at around 70%.
Against this you obviously have the cost of treatment for treating smoking related diseases and I have no idea what that is on this island.
I will not however accept premature death as an economic cost as obviously if you die before pensionable age then the States saves money!
I only put this forward from the view that I suspect that the amount of revenue raised exceeds the cost of treatment. If it did not then the States would presumably be telling us and considering a total ban. I am not expressing an opinion but merely trying to get to the nub(end) of the situation.
If you expand further then I recall that when the Jersey Rally took place recently there was an accident requiring hospital treatment for someone.
Should this be banned on the basis of being self inflicted with a subsequent cost to the the taxpayer ?
Stand Together
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I can see the point of banning smoking in public places but as an ex smoker I think private smoking should be allowed.
The tax on tobacco is going to rise by a lot over the next few years and this is going to cut the local purchase of tobacco by a lot but some will still pay the price or go for cheap duty free smokes.
They will smoke less tobacco or at a higher price and smokers will get fewer and older.
Years ago the island tobacconists sold kilos of chewing tobacco to miners each summer and snuff was available from every newsagent, the market for both has now almost completely disappeared.
The lost tax take will be passed on to elsewhere, I would guess at road diesel, a notoriously carbon heavy fuel ripe for a ‘green’ tax….
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#20 For some the amount of treatment they require for heart and lung conditions won’t remotely be met by the taxes paid in purchasing cigarettes (for others not by any tax they have paid whatsoever). And the point of paying tax is not so we can abuse the service by inducing more medical conditions.
#68 I support their right to smoke outdoors, however the States town planning is such that some streets have hardly any air flow and people’s properties take on a smell of smoke due to the workers congregating in those streets. Then there are the people who don’t bother to check if anyone is close to them before puffing out a big cloud into someone’s face. I’ve also had someone swing their hand back and cause a burn on my leather jacket. Yes they can smoke outdoors but could they at least bother to use their brains and have some consideration for those around them? It’s not too much to ask.
I only had two smokers in my family, unfortunately both died early from heart disease, but they were never hassled because they were considerate with where and when they smoked. The smokers that get people’s backs up are the idiots you see smoking under people’s flat windows because their workplace doesn’t allow them to smoke in the company doorway. Utter morons.
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Seriously, what is the problem with just forcing everyone onto the e-cigarette? It maintains an industry, maintains tax income, we can go back to allowing people to smoke anywhere and everywhere, and the only people that are hurt are the smokers themselves.
Okay, the health services will still get hurt but they get hurt at the moment anyway so little will change there.
But then those like #89 who actually have consideration for their fellow human beings can continue to enjoy their habit, and those that have no consideration well it won’t matter anymore.
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What a load of dribble. If there are plans to ban people from smoking in certain places, then i suggest they consider banning the consumption of alcohol and drug taking. Bring in MOTs to monitor exhaust fumes, increase taxes to cover the loss of duty, reduce staff numbers at health and social services (to bring our record of unemployed up to well over 1000). Well these excess staff wont be needed as people will be much healthier! Oh then social security can pay them income support, less people working, means less people paying tax and spending generally, oh which means retailers will start reporting further decrease in profits, which means again surplus staff wont be needed and the cycle will go on and on. Get what i am saying. Let people live and chose how they live their lives. I know couples who have good salaries, no kids and pay maximum in income tax and social security and will never receive any support from the government, so i would imagine over time (Well in a certain case i know) £50,000 Is paid for in just a few years. So if they wont to smoke, take drugs, drink alcohol or drive an old banger to the detriment of their health – let them!
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Maybe all the smokers can go up to Sorel with those other anti social pariahs that belong to the Jersey kart club !!
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C le Verdic @ 96
Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify, when I said “low calibre” I was referring to your comment that “These people are scum. One of you care to tell me why you aren’t?”
Whilst agreeing with you, I was just trying to be a little less abrasive…
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grashopper-the usual Jersey nimby attitude. If its fun it should be banned. If peple want to smoke in their own cars and homes then thats their right. If youndsters want to use a bit of remote road in St John for something better than taking drugs vandalising cars and causing trouble in Town then good luuk to them too. I do not see too many other people queing up to use that area!!
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Tobias #105
Read carl#85
That’s 3 time now.
Time for a bit of navel gazing methinks?
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tree hugger ,
sorry I was being ironic and a bit too clever for my own good there , I am a lifelong non smoker and kart racer ( can’t afford fags and and kart spares at the same time !!) but i too feel the nanny state in Jersey is trying to go too far in its dealing with smokers and as has been so ably stated if all smokers packed up tomorrow tax revenue would go through the floor.
I can understand not smoking in a company vehicle i.e. van or lorry or repmobile but quite how you can police someone smoking in their own private vehicle is beyond me .
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#96 GTR
I didn’t once state I was important but merely that not every smoker is the lowlife that you and your friends on here C LE VERDIC and TOBIAS are portraying, you all need to get off your high horse and word things differently, I find your speech of text rather insulting and aggressive, not quite the respectable citizens I would want advice from or an opinion.
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PJG
Thanks for your valuable input and contribution to the forum.
Oops! my mistake! Actually, you didn’t make anything other than yet another glib jibe, and this from the man who has no qualms about calling others “a nasty piece of work”.
Shame on you. Have you nothing better to do during your well-earned retirement? Perhaps you should try golf, or get a Playstation.
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C Le Verdic (49) and GTR (55)- smokers are “scum”. Astounding! I really hope that I never have the misfortune to meet you in person because you sounds like a couple of short-sighted bigots.
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surely if you ban smoking in all public places as well as pubs and clubs that will just make smokers stay at home, I’m sure making non smokers very happy, but will it not increase ‘smoking homes’ and not decrease them…
And do the police not have better things to do with their time than police hundereds of people potentially smoking in a public place as they queue up for 30 mins to get into the Royal Yacht on a Friday night!?!?!
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to 93 – GTR – Not my problem if you cannot make yourself clear, but I am neither small minded nor sexist.
Also please get your facts right, you made the connection between the finance industry and ‘class’ not me.
You have a nerve accusing me of generalising after the scathing and judgemental comments you made about people in 55.
Also why do you seem to assume I am a man – wrong again – I am a non smoking female – and unlike yourself if yourself if your last comment is anything to go by – a lady!!
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Can we please ban eating junk food in public also?
with all the litter it produces, diseases and health problems?
Lets just ban doing anything in a public place to keep eveyone happy.
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Jerseyborn@ 111 calling us “small minded” and
“bigoted”.Thats rich coming from someone who needs to call themselves “JERSEYBORN”!!!
Whats the problem with being English,Polish or Portuguese,yet no one is refering to themselves as their place of birth.
Small minded? no chum as i do not need to highlight my place of birth in my username.
Regarding SBSY,i think i have been perfectly clear in my opinions,hence your annoyance.
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Any one find anything odd about this,the govt has the wherewithal to ban smoking if it wants,so why all these silly propositions “Increasing the number of smoke free homes where babies live” now they know no one will argue that it’s not good for babies to be around fags,so then what ..? I suspect another stealth law where the cops can say ” We suspect a baby is being exposed to smoke in this home ” Then enter it on suspicion..and there you have it folks another erosion of civil liberties…if we gat a wave of posters protesting vehemently at this suggestion or wielding the conspiracy accusation…it will prove the point..let’s wait and see shall we…think about it…and remember what happened to Syvret one morning or was it Carolyn Labey the wanted sussed…..???
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@JERSEYBORN there is nothing wrong with being proud of the place you were born, ignore the bigot and carry on being proud of your Island.
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Sorry GTR I didn’t mean to offend you with my username! I will be sure to pass your message on to Jersey_Boy.
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Theirs nothing wrong with being proud of where you were born.But over emphasising the fact in every breath points to the fact of an inferiority complex.
Perhaps certain individuals need to travel once in a while instead of thinking Jersey is the world
which is ignorance on a grand scale.
As for the words S.C.U.M they may stand for the sentence,”SMOKING CAUSES ULTIMATE MURDER”.
A little complicated for some i should imagine!
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Fuming, Jersey Born et al.
I re-read my earlier post to see if, perhaps, I had been a little harsh by using the word scum. I certainly use the expression very sparingly otherwise and I know I have not used it on the internet before.
If the description is going to be used then a benchmark needs to be set and I believe that the behaviour, by smokers, which I highlighted falls sufficiently below the benchmark for the perpetrators to qualify. Anyone care to argue with that? I’m still waiting for someone to justify smoking. Might be a long wait,eh?
If the truth really hurts some people so much I would be happy to go along with Leah’s description instead:
Utter morons.
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Crikey! I see from some of these comments that we need to keep a closer eye on our little offshore asylum.
You islanders appear to have very short memories of dictatorial regimes.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/guernsey/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8558000/8558130.stm
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Tobias #110
Oh dear, light blue touch paper etc.I think you need a ciggy to calm you down.
(Most relevant to the thread, don’t you think))
It was just a gentle warning that you are starting to get a reputation as a twisted cross sort of person (not just from me).
And it was not me posting under another name to boost my ego, as you do.
Oh, and you’ve made another mistake Toby, I haven’t retired yet.
So, using the Tobias scale of intellect, does that make you an inferior person?
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GTR #119
Jersey Born and Jersey Boy are hardly over emphasising it’s a log in name for heavens sake, have you just joined this debate to totally insult people, who are you to judge people you have never met! and as for your S.C.U.M you come up with that one all on your own? shame you missed on the full stops elaborating the fact that it actually stood for something, give over, you are still trying to patronise and put people down, do us all a favour and take your own advice, travel a bit and learn some manners!!!
C Le Verdic #120
You are entitled to your own opinion and yes I’m guessing 90% of smokers would love not to do it but then we’re not 10yrs old and to be honest when I started the warning signs were not in your face, I’ve tried and failed to give up and will keep trying. All I am pointing out is your way that you address people, I don’t know you or care to if that’s the way you feel you can talk to people. SCUM in my mind is the lowest form of person, one who mugs the elderly, beats up people, bombs a country, abuses children etc…. If you truly think that smokers are in that category I find that quite disturbing.
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Wow! Reading some of the opinions on here, its a wonder smoking has been around for so long if its as hateful. Regarding the statements that only ‘low-caliber’ people smoke etc. – tell me Tobias, would that cover most of the RAF pilots in WWII?
People have been brain washed into hating smokers this much – it wasn’t that long ago when you wouldn’t bat an eyelid at lighting up in a restaurant or a bar. Not a second thought was given to it.
I enjoy having a smoke with a beer every now and then, it’s a great way to wind down after a week at work, and frankly I don’t care if Tobias and others think that makes me less of a human being.
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To all you smokers.
YOU ARE NOT “SCUM”
You are people who have succumbed for whatever reason to an extremely addictive habit while governments looked on and did nothing except take money from you.
I started smoking in 1965, in those days it was the norm, peer pressure was immense.
I never actually enjoyed smoking, after the first month of forcing myself to become one of the crowd it was only satisfying the craving that gave an impression of enjoyment.
From then onwards it was a cycle of trying to give up and failing.
Finally, 7 years ago I gave up permanently.
This was one of the most difficult things I have ever done.(the never smoked in my life lot will never understand this)
Now I am reaping the benefits.
No need to list them even the “low-calibre people who smoke” know what they are.
If you are a smoker, give up.
Don’t let anyone tell you it’s easy, it’s not.
But the benefits are enormous.
Last bit of advice (probably won’t be understood by those that have never smoked) Never give up giving up.
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truthseeker#116
If not factual, at least you are entertaining.
You got a giggle from me,TA.
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Cant you see its just a clever States ploy to get the public moaning about cigarettes rather than the increase in GST and budget cuts?
Seems to work well.
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123 Fuming! it has a kind of melody almost!
So Fuming in your mind someone who falls into the SCUM category mugs people,abuses children etc.
If not now,can you honestly say that you havent smoked in a small enclosed enviroment where perhaps people and small children were in the vicinity? Where perhaps they breathed in your second hand smoke? If you have done then you “may” have contributed to the any future diseases that manifest in INOCENT people including children which include CANCER,STROKE,HEART DISEASE,AMPUTATION!
How best would you describe a person under any other circumstances that would contribute to the aformentioned diseases?
Technically blowing out smoke into a childs face is a form of abuse,so any form of abuse to a child categorises a person as SCUM
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If its banned in all public spaces, will that mean we have to advertise to potential tourists that Jersey is a no-smoking island?
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Sarah: “Human rights anyone? If its your car its your property?”
It’s not always in the car, that’s the thing! The number of times I’ve had to dodge a thrown cigerette whilst on my motobike is crazy..
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Only low calibre people smoke?
Funny how smokers CAN afford to smoke. It must be the non-smokers who cannot afford it in the first place.
Therefore who are the low calibre ones with no money?
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#120 Hey, I get enough hassle on here
My “utter morons” was reserved for the inconsiderate smokers not people like #90 (was #89 before!?!).
What I really want to know is why people still start smoking? I can understand my grandfather’s generation starting, they didn’t have any of the information we have, but not nowadays. It’s a hideous smell and you apparently get no real ‘benefit’ until you become addicted, so what is the attraction?
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131, percentage wise it is certainly much more heavily squewed towards the C2,D,E’s in the UK. Probably the same over in Jersey. Having said that, there is nothing more repelent than Jersey snobs!
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PJG your patronisisng comments do not serve you well, Here is a politician who it is alleged has held very important evidence of actual corruption…and the cops raid her house and take away the computers therein…..still no one has challenged that Pace law,then they want to import against European laws Stun guns, then Ian Le Marquand.a former magistrate who ought to know better defending police criminal activity in the Curtiss Warren case says “It is o.k. to break the law in certain circumstances”…Try using that as a defence in court..you may wish to comfort yourself that the powers that be are above that sort of behaviour,naievity or what..? just look at some of the stunts pulled off recently,Terry Le Main not only tips his mate the wink ,but had to go because the very laws he was supposed to be the guardian of ..he broke…..Those who trust this lot are like a man walking through a minefield with his fingers in his ears so he won’t hear it go off…but will wind up just as dead.Wakey wakey.
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#132, Leah: “so what is the attraction?”
Its glorious! Nothing better than smoke with a espresso or whiskey. Its relaxing. Even non-smokers enjoy the occasional drag, normally after a few drinks.
People going on about second hand smoke contributing to non-smokers’ ill health are talking absolute rubbish now its banned inside public places.
The only reason smoking still gets a hard time is because it smells bad to non-smokers and they don’t like the smell anywhere near them – yuk! Just like I don’t like the smell of some people’s hideous perfume or the exhaust from the odd clapped out van. I also don’t like people who drive at 20mph everywhere, are pedantic, swear a lot, eat with their mouth open, are rude etc. but I don;t expect the States to legislate for everything that I believe reduces my quality of life.
If cigarettes smelled of roses there would be no problem whatsoever.
So here it is… smokers enjoy it, they’re probably addicted, and it’s most likely not harming anyone else at all, you do worse breathing in car exhaust in town. So get over it.
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#128 GTR! It has a kind of annoyance to it most definitely!
Can I honestly say that I haven’t smoked in a small enclosed environment with Children in? Yes would be the answer.
Yes I would smoke in a pub but children were not allowed in, I agreed in one of my recent posts that I quite like the fact that you can not smoke in enclosed places anymore, again you are just trying to start an argument. Adults had a choice if they wanted to sit in a pub with smokers! Children don’t so why would I subject them to it.
No doubt you’ll come back with some other explanation as to why we are SCUM but quite frankly you are boring me with your pathetic attempts to get a rise.
My whole point of this never ending argument was that to call us that name was uncalled for and in fact from the dictionary the meaning I believe you’re referring to is ‘a low, worthless, or evil person.’ I think that you are projecting your own personality here because we are not the evil ones writing this stuff!!
People like you are only here to make debates into nasty confrontations, you’d be the first person to start/initiate a fight in a crowd I’m sure.
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30% higher is an enormous increase in lung cancer. Is it because Jersey people smoke 30% more or, as is more likely, smoke just as much? Could it be that there is another underlying problem such as ‘Radon’ which is a highly toxic gas that can cause cancer, which can arise from granite from which much of the island is built on
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Regarding “Class” @131.
Perhaps only “low calibre people” smoke as they cannot afford to do anything else!
Bedsit land full of cigarette smoke cough cough!
Perhaps people like myself who dont smoke,
own big houses and three cars plus go on their holidays to the South of France!
Oh! the joys of a “smoke free” life make ones pockets buldge,and FUMINGs life “well” more FUMING!Hope your lifes not going up in smoke;-)
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truthseeker#136
Please keep up the good work, posters on this site need a bit of light relief.
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@ 131.
The thing is i can afford to smoke and own a big house, have my cars and holidays. I live my life the way I want to and choose to smoke and its just grand ta
Happy Days.
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The current restrictions on smoking (in pubs, restaurants, public bulidings, etc) were introduced as a protection to employees, nothing else. Smoking outdoors (eg in the al fresco area at the Yacht) is no threat to employees, because it is, um , in the open air.
The ill advised proposals relating to public open spaces, personal cars, etc, take the persecution of people participating in this activity (which has been around for centuries)to a whole new level. It is not an incremental change, it is a fundamental shift in principle, and one which even non-smokers should feel uncomfortable with.
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PJG @ 122
My mistake, I assumed you were retired due to the fact that you frequently post during the day. You must have a very… ‘relaxing’ job.
I really can’t be bothered responding to your inflammatory remarks about me yet again, as I’m afraid I have far better things to do than bother with the likes of you. Suffice to say that a man who claims to have such high morals should know better… but then, we’ve all seen past your little facade now.
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Tobias#142
“My mistake, I assumed you were retired due to the fact that you frequently post during the day”
Yes ASSUME, it made an ASS out of U not ME.
“I really can’t be bothered responding to your inflammatory remarks about me yet again”
Yes Toby you do seem find the truth about your deceitfulness inflammatory, but that’s your problem, not mine.
You appear to find answering questions difficult also, I will repeat it for you.
“So, using the Tobias scale of intellect, does that make you an inferior person?”
“You must have a very… ‘relaxing’ job”
No Toby, just quick witted, extremely well paid, able to multi task. Intelligent, and handsome, and a maybe just little bit modest.
But no “better” than any other, except maybe those that call others “of lesser intelligence” or “that only the low-calibre people smoke (or ’scum’ as they were referred to)” just to bloat their ego.
Even your fellow anorak Verdi disassociated himself from you after that last little gem.
Oh and another mistake, where have I claimed to have high morals? In fact I used to smoke, sometimes indoors, and even in the car (I used the ash tray though Verdi (except in the Sahara once)) so according to some of the posters on here I must be a “SCUM” “BABY KILLER” of the worst degree.
And “we’ve all seen past your little facade now”
Who is the “we’ve all” you are speaking for Toby? Or is that just another mistaken assumption?
OOPS,DOH.
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As Alf Garnett would have said “I’m smoking for Britain”!
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PJG (here we go yet again)
I see you’ve left yet another 18 paragraph essay for me that’s completely off-topic. Still churning out the old tired rubbish about me being “deceitful” or “ego bloating” simply because I had a pseudonym which was used ironically. That’s really quite lame, PJG. Hey, PJG, why not call me a Nazi again? Because that’s what the Nazis did. wasn’t it PJG, they pointed out spelling mistakes?! Dear lord.
PJG, you obviousy have issues with me – not entirely sure why, I’d guess it’s because you dislike the fact that I am more intelligent than you. Well, that’s your problem, not mine, learn to deal with it. I couldn’t really care less what you think of me, I can happily sit here in the knowledge that I am a considerably better person than you ever were, or ever will be, so you can throw anything you like at me. Call me a Nazi, bring my late mother into it again and then express your pleasure like you did before, call me anything you like PJG – at the end of the day I have a beautiful wife that is intelligent and beautiful and can do a lot more than just ‘paint’, I have lovely children that adore their father, I have a good career and a bright future. You have problems with that? They’re your problems, PJG.
BTW, to answer your question as to who are the “we” I referred to that’s seen past your “nice man” facade, I’d say that’s pretty much anyone that read your monstrous, despicable comments about my deceased mother.
“OOPS DOH” yeah that’s really mature. Good point there PJG! and again I am sitting here wondering why I even bother to get into debates with the likes of you. I know it seems ironic for a young guy like me to say this to an elderly chap, but PJG – “it’s time to grow up and stop being so childish”
I would just close by suggesting – for the sake of the few dozen people that actually want to come on here and discuss the relevant topic and not read our silly arguments – that you simply ignore any posts by me, I will happily do the same with yours, unless they are attacking me directly, like you have been doing recently.
(Apologies to readers for yet again allowing myself to be drawn into a pointless argument, this will be the last time I respond to this silly man)
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There comes a point when “nanny knows best”, as expounded by our expensive imported Medical Officers of Health,crosses the line of personal liberty to choose how we lead our lives.Choice is being rapidly eroded by UK directives passed on by Dr Geller and Turnbull.No choice now to opt out of swine flu vaccine,as it’s included in the flu jab and no choice for opting for single measles vaccine, instead of the triple MMR, which has been linked to regressive autism.
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As an ex-smoker I can see both sides. Surely if we ban something that is harmful we should ban others like cakes, sweets & chocolate. Obesity is a growing problem and causes early death, maybe certain foods should have health warnings on them too.
Are we banning smoking in cars because it is anti-social or because of the health benefits? If the latter; shouldn’t we also be banning eating chocolate in cars? Is smoking on one’s own car really that objectionable?
The truth of the matter is that it is objectionable to expose children or others to smoke whether in a car or anywhere else. That is what we should be looking at but it is as far as we should go.
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#135 Thanks for the tone of your post, I was actually asking a serious question!
So it’s nothing to do with peer pressure then? You say yourself people enjoy it probably because they’re addicted, that still leaves the initial cigarette and the ones that follow prior to them getting the benefit of having an addiction. So my question still stands. And people enjoying a puff while inebriated is hardly testament to it being an enjoyable thing, people do all sorts while inebriated.
You dismiss the smell as if it’s nothing, maybe you don’t realise just how foul a smell it is? I hate strong perfume also but thankfully I can walk down the street and rarely do I pass someone whose perfume is so strong I can smell it, rarely am I aware of car fumes (technology has moved on, this isn’t the 1980s), the same cannot be said for every cigarette that passes. Even ex-smokers think the smell is disgusting, my grandfather happened not to smoke while he was bedridden with flu, when recovered he went to get a jacket out the cupboard and was hit by the waft of smoke, he never had another cigarette. It’s not just non-smokers that hate the smell.
Would you agree with the e-cigarette? Solves everyone’s problem.
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i agree that kids in cars should not inhale parents cigge smoke , but they more than likely inhale it at home also.
if anyone thinks the air quality of st helier is good think again , even three floors up .
if you are out in a boat on a fine summers morning(sadly i cant do this anymore)you can clearly see the brown haze of smog.
some posters on here are correct, this is just more smoke and mirrors( pardon the pun) to haze the real issues that we all should show more concern for.
high cost of living, higher unemployment, and higher taxes.
the admin and running costs of the large village are a joke. would the statesmen of yester year allowed jersey to get in this mess, i will guess not.
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Smoking is an addiction.
I was caught up in this addiction for many years and the same as just about every smoker I met, I rued the day I ever started.
It’s not easy to give up.
I am told Champix is really helpful but even that needs complementing with a big dose of willpower.
No amount of chastising (calling them SCUM or of lesser intellect) will make a smoker give up. In fact when the anger sets in during the withdrawal period it can even be a reason to start again (who the hell does that he think he is dictating to me, I will do what I want).
To give up smoking first of all one needs to want to, not just want, I mean REALY WANT. If you have loved ones who are trying to give up the best way to help them is support. Don’t smother them with how are you doing every 5 minutes and if they do have one, don’t tell them what useless no willpower wallies they are.
Take the attitude, OK, no big deal, keep on trying, after the first month every day it gets easier.
And don’t rise to the anger, it’s only the lack of nicotine being nasty, not your loved one, they will probably regret what they said as they say it.
Tobias#145
Names such as SCUM and of lesser intelligence( and sometimes worse) are reserved by me, for those that attack those less fortunate in life for not coming up to their self opinionated standards, especially when the victim has no control on the, deficiency?
A good example is CleVs throwing an empty packet out of car window, I agree they need chastising (SCUMs a little strong though, Ide reserve that for much more seriose wrongdoings).But blowing smoke out of the window, what do you want, smokers to give up breathing.
So Toby if you want to “simply ignore any posts by me” that’s fine. But do not expect me to ignore the bigotry and bullying of your posts because it hurts your feelings to be corrected by someone (possibly the complete inhabitants of the universe) you feel to be inferior to you.
Just think of me as your conscience!
I am sure hidden in their somewhere is a human being. I am so glad your family “adore” you, they are probably the only ones (captive audience so to speak).
Third time now Toby,
“So, using the Tobias scale of intellect, does that make you an inferior person?”
I notice you didn’t say you were handsome? Are you ugly? There is no shame in that Toby, It’s not something you have control over, so only a bigot would chastise you for it.
Finally I will put your “can just paint” insult down as the last gasps of a dying right wing Clu Clux Clan member, who was chucked out for being too bigoted.
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PJG
“I am sure hidden in their somewhere is a human being”
Try to get it right PJG, you make yourself look stupid if you can’t manage basic grammar such as THERE
Goodness, I sure hope the uber-clever PJG doesn’t suss out who this pseudonym is!
Further, “Clu Clux Clan!” lol
are you actively trying to make yourself look daft?! In which case you have succeeded Very well indeed.
Sorry but I am just not going to bother getting into a debate with someone who resorts to name calling such as this (and “Nazi”), and who can’t even spell it correctly. You’re just so many levels below me that you’re not worth my time.
From Tobias (in case it wasn’t quite clear enough for you, PJG!)
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Thank you Toby for proving my argument by understanding exactly what I rote.
You are so predictable
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PJG, oh my dear PJG. “what I rote” lol
I have, on several occasions, tried to reasonably put my point across. I have tried to call a truce to our silly arguments. However, you make it quite clear that you want no such truce : “Just think of me as your conscience!”
Oh, well, I did try. OK then PJG, if you really want to be so petty, if you really want to ‘correct’ me and ridicule me and even bully me (as you have been doing, even though you try to pretend that the bully is me) then I have just one thing to say to you: Bring it on.
You’ve already proven that you have no valid debate, you simply call me a Nazi, a subhuman, the “Clu Clux Clan” (sic) which is highly amusing on a number of levels, not least of which is your comedic attempt at spelling.
I had retired the “TTT” pseudonym, however thanks to you it’s now fully resurrected, you can look forward to more postings from Mr There in the future. I will take pleasure in the fact that I know it irks you somewhat.
Re your “3rd time now Toby” well the reason I have not answered your ridiculous question is because it’s surely designed to be rhetoric, further I do not answer to “Toby” when my name is Tobias, did you ASSUME that PJG?
To answer your question, “Are you ugly?” well no actually PJG I’m not, I like to think I look rather like John Barrowman actually but that is of course highly debatable. But no, I don’t think I’m ugly, but thanks for that mature, thoughtful contribution – another attempt at buyllying me PJG, but you’ll have to do a lot better than that, old man.
So PJG, to sum up – keep on throwing whatever you like at me, I’m not fussed, you’re the one that ends up looking petty, bullying, stupid… “Ide” suggest you invest in a spellchecker though, as what you “rote” is “seriose”ly laughable
I thoroughly look forward to your next attempt to berate me.
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C Le Verdic and all others who are with this no smoking in Public idea, i really don’t understand what gives you the right to tell people where they can or cannot smoke? Surely if you don’t want to be around someone who smokes you have to walk all of 5 paces in to the wind?
ever had an alcholic drink before? I think people who do are SCUM. please as you put it C Le Verdic could you justify people drinking alcohol / eating fast food / driving cars / or just about anything else? you can say that about anything that you don’t do and is bad for you or people around you. I don’t walk throught he tunnel because the fumes from cars have a higher concentration same way you shouldn’t put your mouth round an ash tray outside a pub.
get a grip and live in the real world…. or do us all a favour and pish off to the the top of Ben Nevis where nobody smokes.
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How anyone can believe anything the media says is beyond me.
Today it is Alcohol the baddie and more dangerous than illegal drugs like heroin,ecstasy and crack cocaine a new study said today
Alcohol outranked all other substances,followed by heroin and crack cocaine etc.
Alcohol scored 72 followed by 55 for heroin cocaine 27 tobacco 26 magic mushrooms 5.
We are being drip fed bit by bit every day by scare tactics meant to alarm and keep us on alert from the minute we wake up.
Once we allow the state to regulate our behavior through taxing,laws or moral judgement it becomes an unstoppable juggernaut and we will all become slaves of the state
The road to serfdom,and I don,t even smoke,but believe in freedom for all without all this interference in what we can and cannot do,after all we are supposed to be a free country,somehow I have my doubts.
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‘Le Verdic could you justify people drinking alcohol / eating fast food / driving cars …?’
Definitely not. All antisocial activities. Although cars have become a necessity. Alcohol and fast food are not. Nor is smoking.
That was the first time I’ve ever called anyone ‘scum’, I don’t particularly like the expression. It seems to have come back to haunt me, by courtesy of so many hurt by the truth.
Still waiting to hear any of them telling me why it is all right to litter in the pursuit of smoking. Littering scumbags!
Chill out, the very fact that you don’t understand ‘what gives you the right to tell people where they can or cannot smoke’
says it all about the indifference shown by most smokers and their associated litterers towards others.
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At the moment, I would just be content with smokers not standing right in the doorways or entrances of buildings. It’s really not pleasant to walk through a cloud of smoke just to get into a building.
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Tobias
Please re-read my 107.
Your whole rant was started by my gentle reminder that calling you a Nazi was becoming commonplace by other than me.
This IMO is due to your lack of tolerance towards those who make mistakes, sometimes through no fault of their own.
Its really difficult to give up smoking and 30 years ago it was considered cool to be a smoker (Oh how much we have learned since), I don’t know if you have ever been addicted to nicotine but I can assure you as one who has had this experience, stopping doesn’t just happen because you find out it’s bad for you or even killing you, it’s that difficult.
Check out your statements before my 107
“only the low-calibre people smoke (or ’scum’ as they were referred to)”
“those that choose to partake of it are filthy, stupid people, end of”
“people who smoke are generally anti-social people”
“it stands to reason that these anti-social people will be predisposed to other forms of anti-social behaviour”
“as drug use and smoking go hand-in-hand”
“when I said “low calibre” I was referring to your comment that “These people are scum. One of you care to tell me why you aren’t?”
Your nasty little, completely unsubstantiated, digs at grouping people together for doing things different from your standards is bad enough, but to pronounce them Ignorant, a sub species, of lower intelligence because they are different to you is why you are getting this reputation.
Read some of CleVs posts. He is sometimes guilty of these traits especially his recent scum remark. But he at least tries to focus on the points where its people’s choice to be anti social (tossing empty packets and dog ends out the window) you on the other hand tend to use them as reasons to prove you are better.
The Nazis tried to impose their master race theory on the world by pointing to differences in others and pronouncing them inferior. Do you see the similarity now of, people who think absolute correctness of spelling and grammar is of lesser importance than you means they are of lesser intellect and people who are addicted to nicotine are of lower calibre even if they only smoke outside. I thought the remark about WW2 Pilots being lower calibre scum was neatly ignored by you.
So Tobias you want a truce, you want me to leave you alone, you want me to stop calling you a Nazi.
No problem Tobias, you clean up your act and start having a little tolerance for other peoples differences, attack people for their wrongdoings instead of unimportant things they have little or no control over, stop using these differences to try and show how important and intelligent “you” think you are and my as you call them nasty little jibes will fade away.
I hope this helps.
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Hi PJG
Thanks for your reply, you have raised some valid points this time rather than just attack me so I will try to respond in the same light:
Firstly, you are quite right that many years ago it was ‘cool’ to smoke. I remember buying my first packet of Marlboros at 14, cost me 65p, I then smoked for several years and quit when they hit £1.40. Both myself and my peers all started for the same reason – because it was drummed into us NOT to! We wanted to look edgy, naughty, cool…none of use actually enjoyed it, purely down to image, and when you’re in your teens you don’t really think that one day you’ll be 30,40,50 years old, and the future is not something that gets considered very often, you just live for the moment at that age.
Funnily enough, it was indeed almost entirely the lower classes that started smoking, the ‘swots’ in class as they were then known didn’t do it, only the ‘dodgy’ characters. Hence my comment that smoking is a habit reserved for the lower calibre of society. A comment I stand by, although as correctly pointed out both by yourself and others it was once morally acceptable to smoke and indeed encouraged, like for the WW2 soldiers for example. Nobody is under that sort of illusion any more that smoking is either harmless or morally acceptable, again I say that the newer generation of smokers are these lower-calibre individuals. Just as I was, during my rebellious teenage years, so it’s not a case of me saying “I’m better than them” – it’s a case of me speaking from experience and saying it like it is.
Indeed, the word ‘scum’ was a bit harsh and not something I would have instigated, perhaps I should not have agreed with it in hindsight.
Unfortuantely that was where the matureness of your post came to an end. As for your attempt once again at making me into a Nazi, sorry PJG but once again you need to grow up, that is simply childish. For some reason you seem to think you are on higher moral ground than me, and have taken the time (during your working day? boss away today?) to go through my posts and copy/paste some of my comments. If I had the time, and the inclination, I could do the same with some of yours, starting perhaps with the one where you took great pleasure in hearing about my late mother. The second quote would be the one where you then accused me of making it up!
You say: “So Tobias you want a truce, you want me to leave you alone, you want me to stop calling you a Nazi”
PJG, I SUGGESTED a truce, so that we would stop our petty bickering and hijacking these threads. You have taken this as a sign that you are ‘winning’ and I am getting upset by your silly name calling and go on to say that you’ll accept a truce in as long as I follow certain guidelines set by yourself. No, PJG, wrong wrong wrong. You can either accept the truce that I offered and stop attacking me, or you can expect to get ridiculed when you make those silly comments, it bothers me not either way, I will most certainly not give in to your bullying tactics. Leave me alone or don’t, that’s entirely up to you, but I’m not ASKING anything of you.
You have shown, in your post above, that you are quite capable of mature debate, so once again I suggest that we stick to that, as opposed to the “Nazi/Ku Klux Klan /subhuman/ are you ugly?” immature rubbish that you normally throw at me. And I, in turn, will cease lowering myself to your standards with the ‘paint’ comments or ‘old man’ jibes, which is not something I would normally wish to stoop to.
Love & Light
Tobias
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Toby
You are confusing me with someone who actualy cares about someone calling them names, like yourself for instance.
Oh the vulnerabilities of the imature.
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I think PJG and To”BIAS” need to get a room
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Parktown Prawn#161
Point taken, my apologies.
But he is irksome
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161 – I would love to
162 – Ditto, on both counts
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